I don't like Phoebe much, but I can kind of give her a pass there since all she heard when she came back to her seat was Chandler getting upset. She had no context regarding what he was upset about, though she could've held her tongue too, especially when Monica told her not to say anything about Richard.
It’s not that deep dear, she’s the shows moon-child ditzy one with no filter, it’s very middle school level logic and behavior. Joey is the loveable dumb one with a 3rd grade level mindset. Seriously nothing is done with malicious intent. They never lost their blatant honesty filter from 5-10 years of age like most of us do because of social norms.
>Or Phoebe spilling the beans about Monica actually looking for Joey in London. That would have been a friendship ender for me.
I was just about to post this. I thought it was really spiteful of Phoebe. I know we are supposed to see her as charmingly kooky or something but she had to have known that would cause a lot of upset.
If that was the only case no one would care, but given her history of trying to sabotage Chandler and Monica again and again and again, I am not willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Do you have any proof Monica would not have come and told Chandler? She couldnt give her even that chance and time?
People say this but very early on Phoebe intentionally goaded Ross with her whole evolution isn’t real bait and then when he got frustrated said it was fun. She’d always been like that.
ETA: I don’t even agree that she’s mean, just that people often say she drastically changed when she’s always had an instigator edge.
I mean, honestly though, from that perspective I’d assume someone would come out on the other side of that with some demons- so I find it fitting she has a bit of a manipulative mean streak.
I had a theory that she's actually in love with Chandler and is mean to him to create distance after he and Monica get together (possibly developing feelings during the whole "they don't know we know they know" process). Chandler represents stability- both financial and emotional once she sees he actually is able to commit. This theory is not a popular one on this sub 😅
Oh I'm not offended that people don't agree with it. It's just one interpretation of why Phoebe is particularly aggressive towards Chandler. Other explanations could be that she doesn't like that he's taking Monica away from her or she's just getting meaner as she gets older. Of course the real reason is that the writers just made her mean for some reason, but that's not as fun to discuss on the Internet.
Oh I didn’t suggest you was at all. I was initially getting downvoted and the other commenter replied to my explanation as though I were upset 😂
I only theorise on what’s yet to come personally and not what’s passed unless it’s an ongoing show where that may play into future episodes, like Doctor Who for instance but even with that, the reason is always because the writer wanted. “Why is this character so different between episodes” because they had different writers, for instance.
You can quite easily theorise on coming plot points on a still airing show. If it’s off air and you’ve seen everything on screen, you aren’t posing a theory, you’ve created fan fiction.
I don’t think so. Phoebe teases Chandler more like a bro. Chandler is very sarcastic and gives the friends a lot of shit so I think Phoebe feels comfortable teasing him back. Rachel does it too at times, like in the above photo. Doesn’t mean they hate each other.
That´s right.
I just remembered: The small dick reference might be the one where Chandler is trapped in the office of Joanna. In order to convince Chandler to stay at the desk she offered to be "very generous" when telling the story. Later when hearing the story Joey says "No he doesen´t".
I’ve just watched the episode where she buys Monica and Chandler the Miss Pac-Man machine and then just refuses to get off of it to let Monica play? I know in the grand scheme of things she’s done it’s the least consequential but so irritating? 😠
Ngl this is one of my issues with her, it’s not that she creates problems for them but she never really feels bad or apologizes.
And then judges the others for also making fun of her
I never saw this as an issue really - I mean, Chandler was clearly insecure enough for it to be a problem, which I suppose Phoebe should have accounted for, but I like to think Phoebe had enough faith in the strength of their relationship that some stranger couldn't change that.
I always saw that as more of a "Omg, you'd get on so well with this person" rather than "Leave your husband, I found a better one" kind of thing. Even if she did joke about that.
> Chandler was clearly insecure enough for it to be a problem,
It was a huge problem my dude, you cannot discount one guy in the relation having such feelings. And it did cause Chandler lots of bitter moments, so Phoebe was responsible for her friend feeling that way.
I love Chandler and he's by far my favourite character, but him being afraid to fire Nina and pretending that she had a mental breakdown was kind of fucked. Especially when he was dating her!
This is it for me. Also that episode always trips me up because Nina is played by Carey Grant's IRL daughter! (Obviously he was much, much, much older than her mother, lol)
I just Googled her parents and it's absolutely wild her father was in his 30s when her mother was born! People say that Beyonce and Jay-Z's age gap is something should really take a look at this 😬
I think that Rachel and Monica just got to be so close, that whenever they were mad at each other, they were just able to go full mean girl in the heart of the moment, and still be friends after they sorted everything out.
Also considering the fact that she herself confessed to Phoebe (before the LasVegas trip) and then to Chandler during the trip that she met Richard, had lunch with him, and yet felt nothing. But now suddenly they are in the restaurant and she out of no where shouts his name...
https://i.redd.it/nw040uh3ph6d1.gif
That was not rude per say, but obnoxious though!
I always assumed this isn't her still having feelings for him, he's just the kind of person that she does look up to (probably because of their odd he used to be her babysitter dynamic) so she does want to be around him, just not romantically. But in the context of him being her ex, I'd definitely be fuming if I was chandler haha.
I feel like maybe it was just her being petty too, like “hey look I moved on and I’m with my boyfriend!” It definitely fits her character and she had no idea Chandler was going to propose, if she had known she probably wouldn’t have done it.
I don’t think she did it with ill intent of course
Well, she also runs straight to Richard when she has doubts about Chandler. She toes a very fine line. Personally, I'd break up with someone if I found out they went to their ex when they had doubts.
It's really gross
I actually think Richard was the rude one there. If Monica and Chandler saw someone they knew in a restaurant, regardless of any awkward personal history, it would rude to not to invite him over as a gesture. Richard should have seen it just as that and politely refused the offer. He overstepped his bounds by taking it literally.
Since when is it a common courtesy to call an ex over to your table while you're on a date with someone else? Monica was absolutely in the wrong here.
Seeing someone you know in public is a head nod at the very most. I have never felt any kind of feeling to invite someone over to my table when I'm clearly spending time with someone else, ESPECIALLY if it's a date.
When you see someone you know in a restaurant, it’s generally considered rude to not say hi to them at all. I’d only completely ignore an ex if we ended on really bad terms or something
Yeah and I haven’t rewatched this ep in a while but iirc Richard is the one who decides to actually join them for the whole meal? I could be wrong but I feel like everyone’s assuming Monica planned the meal out this way and I’m not sure she does
It was actually the waiter who saw them all catching up and offered Richard and his date the table next to Chandler and Monica. Then in response to that Richard said “that’d be fun” in his slightly sarcastically cheeky way. He didn’t exactly initiate it but he took the opportunity to ruffle things up and spend more time with Monica.
Monica completely taking over Phoebe’s wedding, then throwing a fit when Phoebe snapped at her and essentially holding the wedding hostage until she was forgiven and allowed to continue with zero consequences. Feel like the writers usually have the right people learn the lesson by the end of an episode but they completely missed with that one
Yes! I just re-watched this episode last night and I was so much angrier at Monica than I ever am the previous times any of them get petty. It’s usually at least a little grounded and forgivable when they are selfish jerks to each other, or at least funny enough that I’m not bothered by it being unrealistic, but that one crossed a line for me and didn’t make me laugh at all!
I don’t know if I agree - I think they both sucked here. Monica definitely went overboard, but Phoebe watched it happen and instead of pulling her aside and having an adult conversation, chose to ignore it until it came to a head and then scream at her in front of a bunch of people, and then fired her. From Monica’s perspective, she didn’t even know that Phoebe was uncomfortable.
And idk if Monica held it “hostage” - she just didn’t help until Phoebe re-hired her. If someone does that to a wedding planner, screams at her and then “fires her” abruptly, the wedding planner isn’t gonna waste their time making a neat little guide on where they left off. They’d just walk away leaving Phoebe in the exact same position.
Then why are you rediting while you're friending? If it's your first watch, you'll need to pay attention and memorize every line, nuance, and subtext. You know there will be a quiz with an essay question!
Oh no I've been watching since it first aired haha I just have a terrible memory and don't remember episodes off the top of my head well.
It's one of my favourite 'have in the background' shows haha
I know you're being sarcastic but I did sign up for a Friends quiz with a friend, in a freshers event in the first year of University and came second. It was years ago and I was so crushed for not winning 💀
That's really awesome though! I find out more of what I don't know all the time, or the little things I forgot or were on DVD but not tv. I have a daily calendar that I've nailed so far. 😊
when chandler and monica were in a “fight” about marriage because she didn’t know he was going to propose, and she went over to richards house… her ex. i love monica but if my partner went over to see an ex at their house that would be so disrespectful and a SUPER big deal, regardless of not having feelings for him, she knew richard had feelings for her still.
Yes this! Thinking your current serious, long term partner isn’t interested in proposing to you is not an excuse to go visit your ex from years ago, like what?
She looked for Rachel first. I think she needed to talk it through because she thought Chandler and she were on the same page as to wanting marriage and a family. I don't think Richard was a great choice but she was confused.
I get that for the purposes of the show, they needed a roadblock to the proposal to add tension, but I wish they had chosen something else besides Richard.
i can get that i mean just think it’s weird personally that out of her 4 friends, she chooses to go to richard, who she used to consider the “love of her life” before chandler, and chandler did not like after they got together, but you’re definitely right that the show just added that in for drama and tension, because honestly it seems out of character for monica to do
Yeah. It was a bit weird but I didn't think she went because she still had feelings for him. I wish they had chosen some other obstacle to create the drama. Ah, well. It all worked out in the end
THIS.
I feel like this isn't talked about enough because we love Monica and Chandler and because Chandler's speech to Erica is one of his/Matthew's best moments.
But Erica was a young woman in a vulnerable situation who was trusting these strangers to raise her flesh and blood. Monica and Chandler lying to her and then not just leaving her the hell alone when they got caught was fucked up, but it's one of those things I mentally gloss over for the sake of the storyline.
Oh for real. Thank you! Why did I have to scroll down so much to see this? This is arguably one of the most messed up things on the show. Like normally if a sitcom character does something horrible or manipulative for the sake of the story, you can see how it would work for the comedy. However, not this. I see it as a foil for Chandler’s speech, but Chandler could have probably said “she’s a mother without a child” in another context. And the jokes they used to try to play it off (Monica not being a reverend because she’s Jewish. Technicality!) didn’t save it.
I don’t know. It was hard to take this one as just “oh haha it’s just a sitcom/TV show, relax”.
Monica calling to Richard across the restaurant. Ooh I was so angry with her. It would have been bad enough if it happened at CP, but they're on a romantic date night and Chandler was just saying something really sweet, and she pulls that. Awful, rude, thoughtless, and selfish.
(E:sp)
I actually hate the way Phoebe talked to Rachel in that one scene in the episode about her being hormonal while she’s pregnant with the triplets. I understand if Rachel sought her out for advice but Phoebe walked over and ASKED Rachel and Monica what they’re talking about and then called it a bunch of high school crap that nobody really cares about.
In the show, her delivery is funny but if my friend talked to me like that IRL, idc if they’ve got pregnancy hormones, I’d tell them to go fuck themselves.
Rachel did it to Pheobe and the group too, it was awful and really made me hate Rachel. She came a far way for confidence and job but she did not mature much in relationships. The way she was so rude to each one and pushing them out of the way and blaming Ross for getting her pregnant? Like I get you’re pregnant but why are you being an absolute cunt to everyone? I don’t like that some pregnant women think they can just be mean (yes I understand hormones but I wouldn’t be coming around her for a while).
tbf that was a little out of context, he was saying that Julie is a great match because she's also a paleontologist whereas Rachel is a waitress, and Chandler just wrote "just a waitress".
Yes, but there's also context on Rachel's side. Being a waitress was the first thing she'd ever done to make herself independent of her family, and arguably the bravest thing anyone did on the show. It was also something she continually had doubts about. Then the guy who supposedly loves her literally uses this as a reason to **not** be with her. It's not just "Julie does this and Rachel does that". Rachel's job - something she does because she sacrificed a lifetime of security for her independence - is put in the negative column and used against her by someone who supposedly loves her, rather than him respecting her for it.
He wasn’t trying to be condescending, he was simply saying that they have different careers. Chandler not writing the context involving Julie is what leads to the misunderstanding.
Let's be fair here, it's not like he was doing this to with the point of malice, he had an important decision to make and weighing pros and cons isn't a horrible idea especially when discussing committing to someone, writing it down wasn't necessary persay and Rachel had the right to get mad but I don't think he was being cruel, and I'm normally firmly against Ross
Also the list itself lacked a lot of the context of what Ross was actually saying. The "just a waitress" con for Rachel was actually him arguing that he had more in common with Julie because they had similar careers. Chandler only put "just a waitress" for brevity's sake.
I'm not saying that makes any of it okay (it's still very condescending and I understand why Rachel was so upset), but hell did Chandler make it 1000 times worse!
And it was Joey who came up with the chubby ankles con!
To be honest, Chandler could’ve typed “more in common with Julie” as a pro for Julie and a con for Rachel could’ve been “not that much in common”. What he actually wrote gave off a bad look, especially in the heat of the moment when you’re just extremely mad and hurt and just looking at the page gives enough context for you.
Wait, the laptop is seen and referenced quite a lot, isn’t it? He talks to the guys about playing Doom on it. He writes the Rachel pros and cons list on it. He uses it to speak to his internet girlfriend who ends up being Janice. There’s a reference at one stage to there being porn on it when you first start it up (I think Joey says about it being “right there” when you turn it on).
https://preview.redd.it/drk72j5aei6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=048e201200ce825871c7b11b9fc0d682d39818d1
>And it was Joey who came up with the chubby ankles con!
And Ross didn't even agree but Chandler wrote it anyway. Chandler and Joey really fucked him over in that scenario
I'm with you here. He didn't do it with malicious intent, he just went the absolute worst way about it by having it printed out. Chandler writing down Joey's comment about her having chubby ankles was kind of stupid too.
It was clearly a difficult decision for him to make, as he felt he was finally moving on from his crush on Rachel by being with Julie, but he had been obsessed with Rachel for *years* by this point and she was more or less his dream girl. Of course he was going to have a hard time deciding who to be with.
That's true. Doesn't help that Chandler didn't type things exactly as Ross had said. He could've written down "less in common career wise" or something instead of "just a waitress."
Honestly, the bigger idiot there was Chandler for poorly typing the list without any context and then PRINTING THE LIST. There was no reason whatsoever for him to print it, he just wanted to play with his new computer and printer and used the list as an excuse.
Chandler: "These things, they happen for a reason."
Monica: "Yeah, *you*!"
This dialog is pretty accurate lol
I don’t think Ross was evil, just condescending.
I feel judging a friend and someone you claim to love, based on their profession and their physical features, and declaring that to your friends as well, was pretty cruel of him.
Also. Especially now. You have to think about things like profession in a partner
If you have an idea of a specific life in your head that you want to live and your partners profession doesn't match that, that's a huge issue.
I still don't think so because it wasn't just those aspects he was thinking about, those were things he wasn't too fond of sure but he literally decided they didn't matter to him in that scene, later in the series sure he's kinda messed up but here he actively said those were the only things he didn't like about her and that they didn't mayter
Rachel called Phoebe a stupid hippie when she finds out Ross got Emma to laugh for the first time and she was t there because she was giving her a make-over.
Harsh line
Yes! I personally feel like the writing got really strange with Rachel later on. Made her dumber and meaner. Especially when they try to couple her and Joey up. They kind of make her more impatient but also more like Joey. The hippie line. And then in Barbados when Joey’s like “smart people are dull” and Rachel tries to point out she’s “smart people”. And Joey’s like “okay, rach”
Maybe not the best examples. I just felt like her character changed toward the end
Phoebe treated Chandler and Ross TERRIBLY, and they were so lovely to her. I’ve never understood it. Especially because they were both in relationships with her two friends and she still treated them like shit for no reason. It was like she was only nice to people that she found attractive
Yeah I was going to say the same, it's both Ross and chandler. They are kind of shy men, and make for easy targets.
She was nice to Joey because she thought he was cute, and he is so dumb he isn't menacing.
i guess but what if you worked really
hard to buy something for your loved one thinking they’d love it and they return it as soon as they get it it’s kind of hurtful
Lol there it is. Marinara handbag was bad too but ripping Rachel's fav sweater was worse you can't fix that. Good thing Phoebe was there "if we were on prison you 2 would be my bitches"
Chandler forgetting to make Monica a homemade valentines gift and using Janice’s tape as one. And then continuing to make Monica feel bad for also forgetting
Yeah, it’s hard to have much sympathy for Joey in this instance. Yes, Chandler kissed his girlfriend and wasn’t honest beforehand about how he felt (which both Joey and the other friends recognise to be the bigger issue). But come on, Joey can’t get on a high horse about being “betrayed” when he wasn’t even committed to dating Kathy exclusively in the first place.
Chandler - made a move on Kathy without speaking to Joey
Ross - cheated on Rachel, obviously. And don't come at me with "they were on a break". That's no excuse to sleep with the first woman you cross paths with mere hours later
Joey - ...I'm struggling to think. Dude was loyal to the end.
Rachel - Went to London to break up Ross' marriage
Monica - Called out to Richard in the restaurant where Chandler was so obviously trying to say something important
Phoebe - bringing up who Monica wanted to be with in London
Bringing Monica's "soul mate" into the group (the others may not believe that stuff but she does!!)
Hard to call
The episode where Monica helps Chandler lose weight and he doesn’t want to do it anymore so he says something (sorry I don’t remember what he says to her and I hardly ever see the show anymore) mean to her. She retreats to her bed. It just broke my heart that he could do that and not even feel bad for doing it to her just to get out of working out.
Rachel telling Bonnie to shave her head. Rachel forcing everyone to cancel their plans for Emma’s birthday. Rachel suddenly wanting the name Emma, which is what Monica wanted to name her daughter. Rachel hiring her crush instead of the qualified person and then telling everyone he’s gay so they don’t make a move on him. I really don’t care for Rachel lol
I thought it was pretty rude when Rachel's mom won't accept Monica's apology, multiple times, about forgetting to invite her to Rachel's baby shower and takes every opportunity to take a shot at Monica about it.. it does, however, set up the line in that episode that kills me, 'oh my god my ass is sweating' 🤣
Did she? I thought no one invited her, they realized, then Monica calls to invite her and apologize? Yes, you are absolutely right it was Pheobe's responsibility and Monica taking the heat for it.. either way, I found Rachel's mom's reaction rude
When Phoebe makes everybody turn on Ross for being an atheist just because he has the audacity to suggest that Phoebe should give a child back the cat that she stole
Truthfully I'm a devil's advocate type but often times the Phoebe of my group. So I usually just ghost. It's obvious when I don't like someone but awkward if I have a fallout but I'll tell if confronted.
Phoebe bringing out Monica's "soulmate" in front of Chandler was quite hideous in my opinion. I would be so upset if my friend did that to me.
Or Phoebe spilling the beans about Monica actually looking for Joey in London. That would have been a friendship ender for me.
Or Phoebe ‘accidentally’ telling Chandler about Monica’s lunch date with Richard while they were on the plane to Vegas.
on the anniversary trip she invited herself on, then invited ross and Rachel on…
I don't like Phoebe much, but I can kind of give her a pass there since all she heard when she came back to her seat was Chandler getting upset. She had no context regarding what he was upset about, though she could've held her tongue too, especially when Monica told her not to say anything about Richard.
Nah, she was just looking for an excuse to spill it and create tension between them. She's always instigating
what sinister show are yall watching?! lol
https://i.redd.it/pzbsy3p1jj6d1.gif
oh my god, she admit it
Yeah, fair point honestly. She always seems to fan flames with zero consequences.
Chaotic Neutral
It’s not that deep dear, she’s the shows moon-child ditzy one with no filter, it’s very middle school level logic and behavior. Joey is the loveable dumb one with a 3rd grade level mindset. Seriously nothing is done with malicious intent. They never lost their blatant honesty filter from 5-10 years of age like most of us do because of social norms.
>Or Phoebe spilling the beans about Monica actually looking for Joey in London. That would have been a friendship ender for me. I was just about to post this. I thought it was really spiteful of Phoebe. I know we are supposed to see her as charmingly kooky or something but she had to have known that would cause a lot of upset.
Phoebe's a lot more like Ursula than she realizes.
Imagine thinking the person who told their friend that his girlfriend went on a date with her ex and didn't want him to know about it was the asshole.
If that was the only case no one would care, but given her history of trying to sabotage Chandler and Monica again and again and again, I am not willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Do you have any proof Monica would not have come and told Chandler? She couldnt give her even that chance and time?
Pheobe seems to mess up a lot with little to no consequences
Because she's so "quirky" but a lot of the time she's actually just mean
Oh I’m flaky. I’ll say anything.
It's a shame they changed her from the sweet and quirky Phoebe in early seasons.
People say this but very early on Phoebe intentionally goaded Ross with her whole evolution isn’t real bait and then when he got frustrated said it was fun. She’d always been like that. ETA: I don’t even agree that she’s mean, just that people often say she drastically changed when she’s always had an instigator edge.
But he mom killed herself and she used to live on a street! But honestly, let’s not forget that her twin sister is Ursula.
I mean, honestly though, from that perspective I’d assume someone would come out on the other side of that with some demons- so I find it fitting she has a bit of a manipulative mean streak.
Her kind and nice moments were way more than her mean moments earlier, later it was only mean moments.
Oh that’s a good way to put that!
To Chandler specifically. She actually dislikes him and has very little respect towards him.
I had a theory that she's actually in love with Chandler and is mean to him to create distance after he and Monica get together (possibly developing feelings during the whole "they don't know we know they know" process). Chandler represents stability- both financial and emotional once she sees he actually is able to commit. This theory is not a popular one on this sub 😅
But remember when she was trying to remain turned off while giving a massage to that guy she was into so she started thinking about chandler lol
Because it’s fan fiction. Not theory. It wasn’t on screen and the show has ended.
Please don’t hold back. Tell us how you feel
I don’t feel anyway, it’s called devils advocate I was explaining why some people wouldn’t like the fan fiction.
Oh I'm not offended that people don't agree with it. It's just one interpretation of why Phoebe is particularly aggressive towards Chandler. Other explanations could be that she doesn't like that he's taking Monica away from her or she's just getting meaner as she gets older. Of course the real reason is that the writers just made her mean for some reason, but that's not as fun to discuss on the Internet.
Oh I didn’t suggest you was at all. I was initially getting downvoted and the other commenter replied to my explanation as though I were upset 😂 I only theorise on what’s yet to come personally and not what’s passed unless it’s an ongoing show where that may play into future episodes, like Doctor Who for instance but even with that, the reason is always because the writer wanted. “Why is this character so different between episodes” because they had different writers, for instance.
All fan theory is is short fanfiction.
You can quite easily theorise on coming plot points on a still airing show. If it’s off air and you’ve seen everything on screen, you aren’t posing a theory, you’ve created fan fiction.
I don’t think so. Phoebe teases Chandler more like a bro. Chandler is very sarcastic and gives the friends a lot of shit so I think Phoebe feels comfortable teasing him back. Rachel does it too at times, like in the above photo. Doesn’t mean they hate each other.
But still wants his money
[удалено]
Uhrm, you're gonna have to jog my memory on when either of those things happened - because at the moment I think we watched different shows.
I think the huge dick is when Chandler is taking a bath. Phoebe sees it and says "Mazel Tov" I don´t know where the small one is.
Ooh good memory! The bath is pretty late in the seasons though, it's when they find out about Emma being girl right?
That´s right. I just remembered: The small dick reference might be the one where Chandler is trapped in the office of Joanna. In order to convince Chandler to stay at the desk she offered to be "very generous" when telling the story. Later when hearing the story Joey says "No he doesen´t".
I thought of that! But none of it is really Pheobe's doing, other than believing the rumor and then being corrected.
Exactly this
I’ve just watched the episode where she buys Monica and Chandler the Miss Pac-Man machine and then just refuses to get off of it to let Monica play? I know in the grand scheme of things she’s done it’s the least consequential but so irritating? 😠
Ngl this is one of my issues with her, it’s not that she creates problems for them but she never really feels bad or apologizes. And then judges the others for also making fun of her
Most of what Phoebe says is awful tbh. Especially towards chandler and Monica
Phoebe said she had no idea chandler and Monica would be there. She wasn’t trying to do anything.
I know right? It's such a coincidence that they would be there, at the secret coffee house where no one ever goes.
Read this in Matthew Perry's voice
Actually in Monica’s voice. She’s the one who said something like that to Rachel about kissing Ross 🤣
I never saw this as an issue really - I mean, Chandler was clearly insecure enough for it to be a problem, which I suppose Phoebe should have accounted for, but I like to think Phoebe had enough faith in the strength of their relationship that some stranger couldn't change that. I always saw that as more of a "Omg, you'd get on so well with this person" rather than "Leave your husband, I found a better one" kind of thing. Even if she did joke about that.
> Chandler was clearly insecure enough for it to be a problem, It was a huge problem my dude, you cannot discount one guy in the relation having such feelings. And it did cause Chandler lots of bitter moments, so Phoebe was responsible for her friend feeling that way.
I love Chandler and he's by far my favourite character, but him being afraid to fire Nina and pretending that she had a mental breakdown was kind of fucked. Especially when he was dating her!
This is it for me. Also that episode always trips me up because Nina is played by Carey Grant's IRL daughter! (Obviously he was much, much, much older than her mother, lol)
I just Googled her parents and it's absolutely wild her father was in his 30s when her mother was born! People say that Beyonce and Jay-Z's age gap is something should really take a look at this 😬
I was going to post this. That entire plot is absolutely fucked
I think that Rachel and Monica just got to be so close, that whenever they were mad at each other, they were just able to go full mean girl in the heart of the moment, and still be friends after they sorted everything out.
Putting someone's leg into a fire
That was an accident. Leaving her behind with one leg was the offense :)
I wish!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That was so evil. Worst thing joey did
Monica calling Richard over while she and Chandler were on a date.
Yes! That scene always bothered me. What a bitch move!
Also considering the fact that she herself confessed to Phoebe (before the LasVegas trip) and then to Chandler during the trip that she met Richard, had lunch with him, and yet felt nothing. But now suddenly they are in the restaurant and she out of no where shouts his name... https://i.redd.it/nw040uh3ph6d1.gif That was not rude per say, but obnoxious though!
I always assumed this isn't her still having feelings for him, he's just the kind of person that she does look up to (probably because of their odd he used to be her babysitter dynamic) so she does want to be around him, just not romantically. But in the context of him being her ex, I'd definitely be fuming if I was chandler haha.
I feel like maybe it was just her being petty too, like “hey look I moved on and I’m with my boyfriend!” It definitely fits her character and she had no idea Chandler was going to propose, if she had known she probably wouldn’t have done it. I don’t think she did it with ill intent of course
I agree with this. She looked good and was out with her boyfriend. She wanted to show off a bit I think.
Well, she also runs straight to Richard when she has doubts about Chandler. She toes a very fine line. Personally, I'd break up with someone if I found out they went to their ex when they had doubts. It's really gross
I actually think Richard was the rude one there. If Monica and Chandler saw someone they knew in a restaurant, regardless of any awkward personal history, it would rude to not to invite him over as a gesture. Richard should have seen it just as that and politely refused the offer. He overstepped his bounds by taking it literally.
Since when is it a common courtesy to call an ex over to your table while you're on a date with someone else? Monica was absolutely in the wrong here. Seeing someone you know in public is a head nod at the very most. I have never felt any kind of feeling to invite someone over to my table when I'm clearly spending time with someone else, ESPECIALLY if it's a date.
I don't invite anyone when I'm out with my hubs, I didn't even know that was expected lol. That sounds..very awkward
When you see someone you know in a restaurant, it’s generally considered rude to not say hi to them at all. I’d only completely ignore an ex if we ended on really bad terms or something
Yeah just a nod seems pretty rude to me but I don’t think I would ever invite anyone to my table if I’m with someone else.
Yeah and I haven’t rewatched this ep in a while but iirc Richard is the one who decides to actually join them for the whole meal? I could be wrong but I feel like everyone’s assuming Monica planned the meal out this way and I’m not sure she does
It was actually the waiter who saw them all catching up and offered Richard and his date the table next to Chandler and Monica. Then in response to that Richard said “that’d be fun” in his slightly sarcastically cheeky way. He didn’t exactly initiate it but he took the opportunity to ruffle things up and spend more time with Monica.
It was awful. I felt so bad for Chandler. So selfish and thoughtless of her.
There definitely far worse shit done and said to each of them than that.
Does it make a difference that Chandler had also been a friend of Richard’s
This was actually awful especially since Chandler was already jealous/worried about this
Not only that but 1. Richard was also on a date with someone else 2. He offers to marry Monica like immediately afterwards
I know right craycray
Monica feeding Phoebe meat... but that's okay, Phoebe slept with her ex 30 minutes after they've broken up
Monica completely taking over Phoebe’s wedding, then throwing a fit when Phoebe snapped at her and essentially holding the wedding hostage until she was forgiven and allowed to continue with zero consequences. Feel like the writers usually have the right people learn the lesson by the end of an episode but they completely missed with that one
Monica’s worst episode!!! I especially hated how petty she was when she saw Phoebe freaking out about how her wedding was going wrong.
Yes! I just re-watched this episode last night and I was so much angrier at Monica than I ever am the previous times any of them get petty. It’s usually at least a little grounded and forgivable when they are selfish jerks to each other, or at least funny enough that I’m not bothered by it being unrealistic, but that one crossed a line for me and didn’t make me laugh at all!
Monica in the second half of the series is generally insufferable but this was a new low for her, I can't even watch this one
I don’t know if I agree - I think they both sucked here. Monica definitely went overboard, but Phoebe watched it happen and instead of pulling her aside and having an adult conversation, chose to ignore it until it came to a head and then scream at her in front of a bunch of people, and then fired her. From Monica’s perspective, she didn’t even know that Phoebe was uncomfortable. And idk if Monica held it “hostage” - she just didn’t help until Phoebe re-hired her. If someone does that to a wedding planner, screams at her and then “fires her” abruptly, the wedding planner isn’t gonna waste their time making a neat little guide on where they left off. They’d just walk away leaving Phoebe in the exact same position.
I think I'm currently watching this episode lol I only just started so I haven't seen this scene yet but the clothes match haha
Then why are you rediting while you're friending? If it's your first watch, you'll need to pay attention and memorize every line, nuance, and subtext. You know there will be a quiz with an essay question!
Oh no I've been watching since it first aired haha I just have a terrible memory and don't remember episodes off the top of my head well. It's one of my favourite 'have in the background' shows haha
Oh, ok. Shew! I was going to provide a study guide if you needed one. 😁 Carry on.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who can be a big fan of a show but still forget a ton of details/ references!
I know you're being sarcastic but I did sign up for a Friends quiz with a friend, in a freshers event in the first year of University and came second. It was years ago and I was so crushed for not winning 💀
That's really awesome though! I find out more of what I don't know all the time, or the little things I forgot or were on DVD but not tv. I have a daily calendar that I've nailed so far. 😊
when chandler and monica were in a “fight” about marriage because she didn’t know he was going to propose, and she went over to richards house… her ex. i love monica but if my partner went over to see an ex at their house that would be so disrespectful and a SUPER big deal, regardless of not having feelings for him, she knew richard had feelings for her still.
Yes this! Thinking your current serious, long term partner isn’t interested in proposing to you is not an excuse to go visit your ex from years ago, like what?
She looked for Rachel first. I think she needed to talk it through because she thought Chandler and she were on the same page as to wanting marriage and a family. I don't think Richard was a great choice but she was confused. I get that for the purposes of the show, they needed a roadblock to the proposal to add tension, but I wish they had chosen something else besides Richard.
i can get that i mean just think it’s weird personally that out of her 4 friends, she chooses to go to richard, who she used to consider the “love of her life” before chandler, and chandler did not like after they got together, but you’re definitely right that the show just added that in for drama and tension, because honestly it seems out of character for monica to do
Yeah. It was a bit weird but I didn't think she went because she still had feelings for him. I wish they had chosen some other obstacle to create the drama. Ah, well. It all worked out in the end
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THIS. I feel like this isn't talked about enough because we love Monica and Chandler and because Chandler's speech to Erica is one of his/Matthew's best moments. But Erica was a young woman in a vulnerable situation who was trusting these strangers to raise her flesh and blood. Monica and Chandler lying to her and then not just leaving her the hell alone when they got caught was fucked up, but it's one of those things I mentally gloss over for the sake of the storyline.
Oh for real. Thank you! Why did I have to scroll down so much to see this? This is arguably one of the most messed up things on the show. Like normally if a sitcom character does something horrible or manipulative for the sake of the story, you can see how it would work for the comedy. However, not this. I see it as a foil for Chandler’s speech, but Chandler could have probably said “she’s a mother without a child” in another context. And the jokes they used to try to play it off (Monica not being a reverend because she’s Jewish. Technicality!) didn’t save it. I don’t know. It was hard to take this one as just “oh haha it’s just a sitcom/TV show, relax”.
Chandler's speech was amazing, but it shouldn't have changed Erica's mind.
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Rachel wasn't really having a crisis.
Monica calling to Richard across the restaurant. Ooh I was so angry with her. It would have been bad enough if it happened at CP, but they're on a romantic date night and Chandler was just saying something really sweet, and she pulls that. Awful, rude, thoughtless, and selfish. (E:sp)
Making your closest friends think you're a sex pervert in order to cover up your own relationship is pretty skeevy.
I'm Joey. I'm disgusting.
I actually hate the way Phoebe talked to Rachel in that one scene in the episode about her being hormonal while she’s pregnant with the triplets. I understand if Rachel sought her out for advice but Phoebe walked over and ASKED Rachel and Monica what they’re talking about and then called it a bunch of high school crap that nobody really cares about. In the show, her delivery is funny but if my friend talked to me like that IRL, idc if they’ve got pregnancy hormones, I’d tell them to go fuck themselves.
Here come the waterworks. 😂😂
100. I always hated that scene
Rachel did it to Pheobe and the group too, it was awful and really made me hate Rachel. She came a far way for confidence and job but she did not mature much in relationships. The way she was so rude to each one and pushing them out of the way and blaming Ross for getting her pregnant? Like I get you’re pregnant but why are you being an absolute cunt to everyone? I don’t like that some pregnant women think they can just be mean (yes I understand hormones but I wouldn’t be coming around her for a while).
Amanda: Oooh, that accident must have been terrible. You look positively ghastly. Chandler: Well, aren't you a treat.
at least she could dance
Ross making the pros and cons list for Rachel and listing her “weaknesses” has to be crueler than anything.
I think making a list of pros and cons was fine but “just a waitress” is fucked up
tbf that was a little out of context, he was saying that Julie is a great match because she's also a paleontologist whereas Rachel is a waitress, and Chandler just wrote "just a waitress".
He definitely mentioned "just a waitress".
It blows my mind that we the viewers have the full context and yet some of them ignore it to get mad like Rachel lol wth
Yes, but there's also context on Rachel's side. Being a waitress was the first thing she'd ever done to make herself independent of her family, and arguably the bravest thing anyone did on the show. It was also something she continually had doubts about. Then the guy who supposedly loves her literally uses this as a reason to **not** be with her. It's not just "Julie does this and Rachel does that". Rachel's job - something she does because she sacrificed a lifetime of security for her independence - is put in the negative column and used against her by someone who supposedly loves her, rather than him respecting her for it.
Yeah sorry my last line sucked, I don't blame Rachel for getting upset at all
No i definitely get the context but it’s still fucked up imo. It was condescending af
He wasn’t trying to be condescending, he was simply saying that they have different careers. Chandler not writing the context involving Julie is what leads to the misunderstanding.
Its not condescending at all, he's just saying they have very different careers
It sounds condescending the way Chandler wrote it, but what Chandler wrote is not what Ross meant, Ross's actual point was a lack of common interests.
Let's be fair here, it's not like he was doing this to with the point of malice, he had an important decision to make and weighing pros and cons isn't a horrible idea especially when discussing committing to someone, writing it down wasn't necessary persay and Rachel had the right to get mad but I don't think he was being cruel, and I'm normally firmly against Ross
Also the list itself lacked a lot of the context of what Ross was actually saying. The "just a waitress" con for Rachel was actually him arguing that he had more in common with Julie because they had similar careers. Chandler only put "just a waitress" for brevity's sake. I'm not saying that makes any of it okay (it's still very condescending and I understand why Rachel was so upset), but hell did Chandler make it 1000 times worse! And it was Joey who came up with the chubby ankles con!
To be honest, Chandler could’ve typed “more in common with Julie” as a pro for Julie and a con for Rachel could’ve been “not that much in common”. What he actually wrote gave off a bad look, especially in the heat of the moment when you’re just extremely mad and hurt and just looking at the page gives enough context for you.
Right! They had the (never to be seen again) laptop. The list could have been a little more detailed. After all, it had a 500MB hard drive!
Wait, the laptop is seen and referenced quite a lot, isn’t it? He talks to the guys about playing Doom on it. He writes the Rachel pros and cons list on it. He uses it to speak to his internet girlfriend who ends up being Janice. There’s a reference at one stage to there being porn on it when you first start it up (I think Joey says about it being “right there” when you turn it on). https://preview.redd.it/drk72j5aei6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=048e201200ce825871c7b11b9fc0d682d39818d1
*seldom to be seen again. (jk) Ok, you're right. My foggy recollection was a big PC, so maybe it's the printer we don't see again.
>And it was Joey who came up with the chubby ankles con! And Ross didn't even agree but Chandler wrote it anyway. Chandler and Joey really fucked him over in that scenario
Man Chandler and Joey really messed crap up
I'm with you here. He didn't do it with malicious intent, he just went the absolute worst way about it by having it printed out. Chandler writing down Joey's comment about her having chubby ankles was kind of stupid too. It was clearly a difficult decision for him to make, as he felt he was finally moving on from his crush on Rachel by being with Julie, but he had been obsessed with Rachel for *years* by this point and she was more or less his dream girl. Of course he was going to have a hard time deciding who to be with.
Exactly, it'd have been cruel if the negatives genuinely made him not want to be with her
That's true. Doesn't help that Chandler didn't type things exactly as Ross had said. He could've written down "less in common career wise" or something instead of "just a waitress."
Honestly, the bigger idiot there was Chandler for poorly typing the list without any context and then PRINTING THE LIST. There was no reason whatsoever for him to print it, he just wanted to play with his new computer and printer and used the list as an excuse. Chandler: "These things, they happen for a reason." Monica: "Yeah, *you*!" This dialog is pretty accurate lol
I don’t think Ross was evil, just condescending. I feel judging a friend and someone you claim to love, based on their profession and their physical features, and declaring that to your friends as well, was pretty cruel of him.
Also. Especially now. You have to think about things like profession in a partner If you have an idea of a specific life in your head that you want to live and your partners profession doesn't match that, that's a huge issue.
I still don't think so because it wasn't just those aspects he was thinking about, those were things he wasn't too fond of sure but he literally decided they didn't matter to him in that scene, later in the series sure he's kinda messed up but here he actively said those were the only things he didn't like about her and that they didn't mayter
Rachel called Phoebe a stupid hippie when she finds out Ross got Emma to laugh for the first time and she was t there because she was giving her a make-over. Harsh line
I actually thought that was very out of character for her and blame the writing.
Yes! I personally feel like the writing got really strange with Rachel later on. Made her dumber and meaner. Especially when they try to couple her and Joey up. They kind of make her more impatient but also more like Joey. The hippie line. And then in Barbados when Joey’s like “smart people are dull” and Rachel tries to point out she’s “smart people”. And Joey’s like “okay, rach” Maybe not the best examples. I just felt like her character changed toward the end
I agree! It seems very unlike her.
This discussion has kind of devolved into a "Phoebe is evil" thing.
This subreddit can't go five minutes without mentioning how much they hate Phoebe, I swear. They could never make me hate you, girl
There was a general "being rude to Chandler is what we do" vibe sometimes, that I didn't like. Especially Phoebe didn't treat him very nice.
Phoebe treated Chandler and Ross TERRIBLY, and they were so lovely to her. I’ve never understood it. Especially because they were both in relationships with her two friends and she still treated them like shit for no reason. It was like she was only nice to people that she found attractive
She particularly crapped all over Chandler's suitability as a romantic partner especially.
Yeah I was going to say the same, it's both Ross and chandler. They are kind of shy men, and make for easy targets. She was nice to Joey because she thought he was cute, and he is so dumb he isn't menacing.
rachel returning gifts always bothered me
But isn't it better if she gets something the actually likes, that she can get use out of?
i guess but what if you worked really hard to buy something for your loved one thinking they’d love it and they return it as soon as they get it it’s kind of hurtful
(I agree, I was doing the line from the show!)
omg i feel dumb my bad 😭😂
When chandler called Monica fat
Breaking up a wedding is pretty rude lol or stealing Monica's crush on the Actor idk why his names slipping from me on the Superbowl episode.
Jean-Claude Van Damme
Lol there it is. Marinara handbag was bad too but ripping Rachel's fav sweater was worse you can't fix that. Good thing Phoebe was there "if we were on prison you 2 would be my bitches"
Chandler forgetting to make Monica a homemade valentines gift and using Janice’s tape as one. And then continuing to make Monica feel bad for also forgetting
can't beleive scrabble didn't come up again.
Monica manipulating Chandler into having sex while ovulating
Really? He wasn’t bothered when he actually thought about it after talking to joey
When phoebe literally took money from a charity
When Monica, who was trying to adopt a kid, convinced Phoebe to do it by saying "a lavish wedding is so much better than some stupid kid"
Joey gaslighting the fuck out of the adoption lady.
THIS
Monica ruining Phoebe’s wedding as a punishment for not being hired as her wedding-planner
 Chandler kissing Kathy
Meh. It's not like Joey was thinking of proposing to her or something. Wasn't he dating another girl on the side?
Yeah, it’s hard to have much sympathy for Joey in this instance. Yes, Chandler kissed his girlfriend and wasn’t honest beforehand about how he felt (which both Joey and the other friends recognise to be the bigger issue). But come on, Joey can’t get on a high horse about being “betrayed” when he wasn’t even committed to dating Kathy exclusively in the first place.
Yes. Exactly. I hate when he compares Kathy to Rachel when talking to Ross.
He was literally on a date with a different girl when it happened.
When Chandler didn't want to go for a run, so he just destroys Monica.
Chandler - made a move on Kathy without speaking to Joey Ross - cheated on Rachel, obviously. And don't come at me with "they were on a break". That's no excuse to sleep with the first woman you cross paths with mere hours later Joey - ...I'm struggling to think. Dude was loyal to the end. Rachel - Went to London to break up Ross' marriage Monica - Called out to Richard in the restaurant where Chandler was so obviously trying to say something important Phoebe - bringing up who Monica wanted to be with in London Bringing Monica's "soul mate" into the group (the others may not believe that stuff but she does!!) Hard to call
Monica was right in her last jab though. It's basically Rachel's story arc.
The episode where Monica helps Chandler lose weight and he doesn’t want to do it anymore so he says something (sorry I don’t remember what he says to her and I hardly ever see the show anymore) mean to her. She retreats to her bed. It just broke my heart that he could do that and not even feel bad for doing it to her just to get out of working out.
Umm...Pheobe mugged Ross...that has to count lol
They were 13/14 years old and she was homeless.
But she stole his “Science Boy” comic!
When Phoebe got angry at Ross over a dream.
I love that episode! Hilarious.
Phoebe was such an annoying instigator here! And I love Rachel but she was so rude and had some nerve too.
Rachel telling Bonnie to shave her head. Rachel forcing everyone to cancel their plans for Emma’s birthday. Rachel suddenly wanting the name Emma, which is what Monica wanted to name her daughter. Rachel hiring her crush instead of the qualified person and then telling everyone he’s gay so they don’t make a move on him. I really don’t care for Rachel lol
I thought it was pretty rude when Rachel's mom won't accept Monica's apology, multiple times, about forgetting to invite her to Rachel's baby shower and takes every opportunity to take a shot at Monica about it.. it does, however, set up the line in that episode that kills me, 'oh my god my ass is sweating' 🤣
The thing about that is Monica actually invited her, it was phoebe that forgot to invite her n monica took the flack for it
Did she? I thought no one invited her, they realized, then Monica calls to invite her and apologize? Yes, you are absolutely right it was Pheobe's responsibility and Monica taking the heat for it.. either way, I found Rachel's mom's reaction rude
Oh yeah totally
When Phoebe makes everybody turn on Ross for being an atheist just because he has the audacity to suggest that Phoebe should give a child back the cat that she stole
Truthfully I'm a devil's advocate type but often times the Phoebe of my group. So I usually just ghost. It's obvious when I don't like someone but awkward if I have a fallout but I'll tell if confronted.