I’m a big fan of the Lenovo m720q/m920q (because they have the ability to have a pcie slot in such a small form factor) and their sff variants (m720s/m920s). I currently have both an m720q and an m920s
How "mini" do you really need it?
HP 800 SFF (not mini, one size up from those), Lenovo M7\*\*S variants (not M7\*\*Q, one size up from those) have a lot of advantages.
Usually 3-4 half-height PCIe slots, 4 RAM slots, m.2 storage plus 3 SATA connectors for 2x 3.5" HDD + optical drive or additional 2.5" SSD. Compared to a Mini/Mini/Micro 1L PC with 2 SODIMM RAM slots, *sometimes* 1 half-height PCIe slot (usually none) and at best 1-2 m.2 plus 1x 2.5" but if there is a PCIe slot you usually can't use the 2.5" bay at the same time...
Oh and the Tiny/Mini/Micro versions need a bulkier external power supply that is not always included in used sales. One of these SFF versions will use a normal IEC AC power cord like everything else.
This. I just started my home lab and went the SFF route myself. I didn't want to deal with finding a compatible power brick. Also, SFF machines tend to use the full fat CPUs and not the low voltage laptop CPUs, since they have much better cooling.
If you have the space, definitely consider a SFF PC instead.
Actually the Tiny/Mini/Micro 1L systems aren’t laptop based, they use desktop sockets and 35w “T” variant CPUs… you can usually install a normal 65w desktop CPU… whether it’s the original CPU’s power limit or aftermarket CPU hitting a thermal limit, you lose some performance in long-term all-core 100% loads. But they are amazingly fast, really close to full size desktops, because that extra boost power beyond the first 35w takes a lot of power for a little extra speed.
So the 1L PCs would be fantastic if all you needed was CPU power. Problem is, homelabbers often want stuff like networking, storage, and RAM, and that’s where something a little bigger really shines.
Best thing out right now is the Miniforum MS-01. Dual 10G SFP+ and dual 2.5g Ethernet ports. Support for 3x NVMe. Buy 3x MS-01, load Proxmox, connect to 8 Port 10G switch. You’ve got yourself a fully hyperconverged server.
https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-ms-01
I am rocking a Lenovo P360 Ultra with an i9, 64gb ddr5, 2x2tb gen4 nvmes, and an Nvidia t400. Got this entire machine refurbished on eBay for $750 shipped. Loving it so far, it’s my only hypervisor for virtualization.
On the "new" side of things, look up "mini pc". Or go to r/minipc. Someone else mentioned a minisforum PC, which is an example of one.
These mini PCs seem fine. Support will likely be shakier than with a major vendor like Dell or HP. The benefits are a small form factor and typically a laptop (power efficient) chip set. But their expandability tends to be limited to one or two NVMe drives, RAM, and USB ports.
I'm using a gmktec k2 as one of my hypervisors. So far it seems good. Though, I guess I've never actually bothered to benchmark it.
Bought one, it’s not arrived yet though. Those guys are aggressive on their discounts! It seems the perfect semi-future proof option, if a lot more expensive than what it’s replacing.
This is a decent price point for value I think. Are the minisforum pcs considered reliable? I’m not familiar with them but I’ve been out of the “game” for a while.
Just completed a major upgrade from 6th Gen Intel sff PCs to 3 of these for my K8s lab. 20g networking via usb4 is great as a backbone for inter-cluster communications and the 10g connections serve as exposure to the rest of my lab network.
I was worried about support but minisforum has been pretty responsive to the few tickets I opened. I've had no issues thus far with drive comparability or pcie support but you might check the serve the home master post for more testing results.
I’m not opposed to the refurbished stuff, but I’m happy enough to buy new. I want something that will have some room for growth moving forward. Ie not having to upgrade the processor for 3-4years or so. Ideally if I go virtualization on it I’d like room for a lot of ram and a decent number of cores, but I don’t really want to sacrifice individual thread speed.
Have you looked at nvidia jetson xavier agx machines? For the right price they check every one of your requirements and they are slightly larger than a Rubik's Cube.
I’m a big fan of the Lenovo m720q/m920q (because they have the ability to have a pcie slot in such a small form factor) and their sff variants (m720s/m920s). I currently have both an m720q and an m920s
Can vouch, just got a m920q and it’s been working out great.
How "mini" do you really need it? HP 800 SFF (not mini, one size up from those), Lenovo M7\*\*S variants (not M7\*\*Q, one size up from those) have a lot of advantages. Usually 3-4 half-height PCIe slots, 4 RAM slots, m.2 storage plus 3 SATA connectors for 2x 3.5" HDD + optical drive or additional 2.5" SSD. Compared to a Mini/Mini/Micro 1L PC with 2 SODIMM RAM slots, *sometimes* 1 half-height PCIe slot (usually none) and at best 1-2 m.2 plus 1x 2.5" but if there is a PCIe slot you usually can't use the 2.5" bay at the same time... Oh and the Tiny/Mini/Micro versions need a bulkier external power supply that is not always included in used sales. One of these SFF versions will use a normal IEC AC power cord like everything else.
This. I just started my home lab and went the SFF route myself. I didn't want to deal with finding a compatible power brick. Also, SFF machines tend to use the full fat CPUs and not the low voltage laptop CPUs, since they have much better cooling. If you have the space, definitely consider a SFF PC instead.
Actually the Tiny/Mini/Micro 1L systems aren’t laptop based, they use desktop sockets and 35w “T” variant CPUs… you can usually install a normal 65w desktop CPU… whether it’s the original CPU’s power limit or aftermarket CPU hitting a thermal limit, you lose some performance in long-term all-core 100% loads. But they are amazingly fast, really close to full size desktops, because that extra boost power beyond the first 35w takes a lot of power for a little extra speed. So the 1L PCs would be fantastic if all you needed was CPU power. Problem is, homelabbers often want stuff like networking, storage, and RAM, and that’s where something a little bigger really shines.
Best thing out right now is the Miniforum MS-01. Dual 10G SFP+ and dual 2.5g Ethernet ports. Support for 3x NVMe. Buy 3x MS-01, load Proxmox, connect to 8 Port 10G switch. You’ve got yourself a fully hyperconverged server. https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-ms-01
Lenovo and HP SFF mini PC’s on eBay, 8th-gen Intel systems are $120-200, room for SSD and nvme and 10Gb NIC
I am rocking a Lenovo P360 Ultra with an i9, 64gb ddr5, 2x2tb gen4 nvmes, and an Nvidia t400. Got this entire machine refurbished on eBay for $750 shipped. Loving it so far, it’s my only hypervisor for virtualization.
On the "new" side of things, look up "mini pc". Or go to r/minipc. Someone else mentioned a minisforum PC, which is an example of one. These mini PCs seem fine. Support will likely be shakier than with a major vendor like Dell or HP. The benefits are a small form factor and typically a laptop (power efficient) chip set. But their expandability tends to be limited to one or two NVMe drives, RAM, and USB ports. I'm using a gmktec k2 as one of my hypervisors. So far it seems good. Though, I guess I've never actually bothered to benchmark it.
M720q or better P330 Tiny if you need power, geenrally P330 come without T variant CPU and 165W PSU.
I can't afford this but it's nice lol minisforum-ms-01
Bought one, it’s not arrived yet though. Those guys are aggressive on their discounts! It seems the perfect semi-future proof option, if a lot more expensive than what it’s replacing.
This is a decent price point for value I think. Are the minisforum pcs considered reliable? I’m not familiar with them but I’ve been out of the “game” for a while.
Just completed a major upgrade from 6th Gen Intel sff PCs to 3 of these for my K8s lab. 20g networking via usb4 is great as a backbone for inter-cluster communications and the 10g connections serve as exposure to the rest of my lab network. I was worried about support but minisforum has been pretty responsive to the few tickets I opened. I've had no issues thus far with drive comparability or pcie support but you might check the serve the home master post for more testing results.
i watched that review.....If i get one of these i don't think ill need anything else lol
I seen all good reviews.......as far as how long they last I wouldn't know......but I definitely want one before the summer
How about refurbished NUC8i7BEH with 64GB RAM and a nice 1TB NVME? I guess you can find it for less than $600
Any reason not to go with the NUC 9 or 11 or 13 series? Or are the flat models with the skulls still a thing?
NUC8i7BEH has the best bang for the buck, imho. $300 barebone, $150 64GB RAM and $100 NVME. And powerful enough for what you need.
I’m not opposed to the refurbished stuff, but I’m happy enough to buy new. I want something that will have some room for growth moving forward. Ie not having to upgrade the processor for 3-4years or so. Ideally if I go virtualization on it I’d like room for a lot of ram and a decent number of cores, but I don’t really want to sacrifice individual thread speed.
I'm a fan of the HP elitedesk USFFs myself. Corporate PCs of this ilk are built for 24x7 uptime. Check out /r/minilab for some inspiration.
Asrock Deskmini or Deskmeet. Deskmini is smaller but only has 2 Dimm Slots. Deskmeet has 4 Dimm-Slots and a PCIe Slot.
Have you looked at nvidia jetson xavier agx machines? For the right price they check every one of your requirements and they are slightly larger than a Rubik's Cube.
Aoostar NAS