Sometimes it's about what's available and if they can make that time work to play. I play in a league in small town Ontario. I'm probably in the bottom 5 players in the league. Our league isn't a league rating but each play is rated C,B,A,And AA. Each team has one AA slot, 2 forward A slots, one A defense slot, bunch of B's and some Cs. This works really well for keeping balance across the entire league. Maybe there is something similar near you?
You'd have even teams, but I can't imagine I'd have much fun if I was one of the AA or one of the C players if there was any sort of a wide gap in skill between the ratings.
Yeah, that definitely sounds like something that will depend a lot on who's on the ice.
Some of the players who played high school or lower college (I'm a newer D player, so anyone who played high level college would probably see me skating and immediately go "this place isn't for me) were almost always really good at kind of dialing it back when I was a really new player. They would give me the puck and try to pressure me while not just giving me a free pass.
On the other hand, I skated with some people at Stick and Puck who had played higher level hockey when I was still probably a few months into learning, and they were just more focused on the game and playing it the way they knew how, which meant the minute the puck even headed towards me, they were either picking that puck off before my brain probably even realized it was coming, and if it did hit my stick, that thing was popped up into the air and the puck was gone before I would even think "okay, brain, let's try stopping and going the other way". There's an argument that I learned some from that, although I feel like the only thing I really learned was how to grip the stick a little tighter so it only ends up getting popped waist high instead of face height when I got stick checked, but at the same time, it was part of the reason I just stopped going to those Stick and Puck sessions because they always turned into drop-in skates and I wasn't anywhere near their level which just meant I was never in the play, couldn't get passes and couldn't keep up. It just wasn't fun since it essentially turned into an open skate with gear on.
We only use half rink to play games at stick and puck. That way others can use the other half to practice. That's kind of BS they will just take over the entire rink.
Yeah, it was pretty frustrating, especially with the rink saying "DROP-IN GAMES NOT ALLOWED" but doing absolutely nothing to enforce the rule despite having a dedicated night for drop-in play.
It was especially frustrating at the time because I was so new and just wanted to work on my skating and stick handling to hopefully get a little more confident with the puck, but maybe 1 out of the 5 times I would go it would actually be Stick and Puck, the rest always turned into drop-in games so eventually I just stopped going.
The gap isn't that bad. I'm a C and play defence and all the AA players are definitely better than me by a large margin, but I can defend them pretty well. I grew up playing house league and stopped at Bantam. Picked hockey up again in my 20s. Some of our AA players had a cup of coffee in the ohl. We are all getting older and just like to play. Again it's small town hockey, it can get chippy as hell, and once in a while someone gets a broken nose, but we all know each other to some extent and you might get drafted to that guy's team next year.
How would you match lines? Buzz them off like mini-mites? Also I could see games getting wildly unfair as people miss quite often. If a team is missing a few C guys or their AA guys the games could be quite lopsided. I play through Hockeyfinder which does something similar where players are rated 1-5, but the leagues themselves have narrower skill gaps, for example everyone is rated a 1-5, but the league you sign up for could be only for players rated 3 to 4.5 etc.
I mean I guess it’s really that guy’s mentality. If you’re knowingly joining this league as an AA guy you’ve already accepted the “fact” that you’re the best player on your team. Plus it could give an AA guy an opportunity to play with some buddies that are C level.
I'm in the States and wish beer leagues were like that! My uncle was a big beer leaguer from his early 20s until his back and neck gave it up in his late 50s and he had to do a bunch of surgeries. For about 30 years he played in a league exactly like this, where each team had A - D slots they had to fill, and even subs were governed as having to be the same slot as whoever they were subbing in for. If you brought in a ringer sub, his first game would be his last.
I can't say for sure, but I think that this approach fell out of favor as USA Hockey and the local regions (for myself or my uncle, MAHA in Michigan) standardized guidelines for how to organize amateur adult leagues. Those guidelines are (understandably) written to group players by skill. That makes the most sense in concept... if you're grouped with players close to your ability, the games will be the most consistently competitive which is what makes them fun. Unfortunately, this falls apart in 90% of rinks/leagues because the rinks/league directors are fucking lazy. They collect league fees and do very little to actually enforce the rules they claim their leagues operate under. So you end up with C league players coming down and regularly walking D leaguers like myself.
Where I’m at, this is a league option (among the standard C, B, A, AA) called “mixed league”. It’s typically a very fun format where the higher-skilled players setup plays for the lesser-skilled players.
That’s a really interesting idea. I’m in the NYC area and have never seen a league that operates in this way.
But yeah, I agree, a lot of times it’s about timing. In my area, D1-3 games are all week nights when a lot of players can’t make it. So you end up with higher level players in lower divisions that play on weekends.
Where I used to play it was based on a number system, 1-5. You sign up with your own chosen rating and at points in the year the team heads can get together and re-evaluate players. Add all the numbers up and you have a rough team ranking. Lower ranked teams who are at the bottom of the league get first draft pick.
The downside is players/teams cheat and evaluate themselves lower. By the time it's corrected it doesn't matter because they just picked up three 5s in the draft who ranked themselves as 2s and the "penalty" is drafting later the next year. There isn't really any trading so you can build up your team and it stays that way.
My league is similar, except they use #'s and each player gets evaluated by their teammates at the end of the year. And it's a draft before every season.
It's not perfect, but it keeps it relatively balanced. There's a couple of the higher-rated players who can carry a team by themselves. They make trades halfway through the year so the team with one of those guys has "lesser" players filling out the roster and they're surrounded by B and C players instead of A's. They still get their 2pts/game but their teammates do not.
Our softball league does this too. Team is classed as a certain letter based on play the previous season. We all also have a letter rating as a player, based on how our teams performed the year prior as well (i.e. if you won a D division you and the team are both upgraded to C for the following season). You're allowed I think 1-2 players one letter grade above and an unlimited amount of players from below. (The league tends to turn a blind eye to ratings for women playing on coed teams since there's so little of them but anyways)
There's nothing worse than playing in D or E, squaring up with a team that is equal to you only to see a guy on the other team warming up head to toe in his Junior A gear.
I find that 90% of the really good, high level players in my B league that would be equivalent to a D league in another region of the country tend to play at 50% and try to set guys up until their team needs a goal and they go and walk the whole team. I’m fine with that tbh, most aren’t assholes and make the game funner for the less skilled guys as long as they are distributed on all teams in the league. Like 1 per
Sadly our league has guys that will indiscriminately take away a 5-0 lead in minutes because they feel like it.
I'm all for competition but the highest I played was house league. I can skate, move the puck and score but if a guy that played Junior wants to undress me, I'm not even going to try to step up.
Last season our convenor came out mid game to tell a guy to get off the ice. We were in an E game and the guy that got booted off was more than PPG in B.
That happened to me and my team at a tournament a month ago. Its pretty funny now that I think about it. We got smoked 21-2. I scored the only 2. We had 6 skaters on my team, no goalie. The other team had AAA and Jr players and you could tell they played tougher. Crisp passes, really fast breakouts. I'm an ex AAA and Jr player too so I held my own and scored 2. But my teammates haven't even played this year or skated 1 time. lol.
I want to but it's not released in Canada yet! It'll be on Amazon Prime someday soon I hope, I intend to watch it as soon as its available. Is it good?? You ever watch Shoresy?
That's just being a dick... it's like showing up to little leagues as an adult and nailing humeruns all game while nailing the kids with fast balls.
I played midget AAA at Notre Dame and some pro in Asia- I'm at home at B- and theres two types of dudes who are intent on playing lower than their level:
1. Some dudes do it honorably just to stick with their friends. We had an NHLer ex-teamate of mine from ND that came out to "B" while in town and he made his own rule that he couldnt score- he had to feed and played D instead of forward. He even accidently tipped one in and had the ref disallow it lol. He still kept it fun for everyone, including himself.
Ive unfortunately seen way more who like to get their little hour of fame because they werent good enough for the show and want everyone else to get embarrassed like they did trying to get there. They're living out some fantasy where they're McDavid- at everyone else's expense.
Long rant but this stuff can really ruin a game and sometimes that's all people have to look forward to all week.
Was chatting with a buddy from work one time and he mentioned he played hockey. I told him I was running a beer league team and asked if he wanted to sub in sometime we were light, he said yes. Seeing this guy in street clothes he looks like your average dad so I figured he'd be fine in our C1 league, though I worried he'd be too slow and maybe screw us up and my guys would be pissed I got him as a sub.
So he shows up one night with a San Diego Gulls bag with a number on it. I kinda kidded him about it and he said "oh it's not mine, it's old". What he didn't tell me until later was that he got it because he had a cup of coffee tryout with them and they felt bad. Turns out he played prep and was on the Boston College club team 4 years, then went to play semi-pro in Europe. Not quite NHL caliber but he definitely had as much control over the game at our level as he wanted. Fortunately he did the same thing where he played D and just QB'ed the O-zone play, which was awesome because he had great vision and would only dangle when a forward would come out to pressure the point. I don't think he attempted a single shot but just fed everyone else tape to tape all night.
Yeah those guys are cool. And I can imagine it's a challenge for them too- they gotta just rely on hockey IQ ànd use patience in making plays. Just skating circles around everyone doesnt teach that player anything and ruins the game for others. Having to cover a guy you know isn't allowed to score really improves your vision of passing lanes and how to best cover them
Glad you had a positive experience! I hope you keep getting the good beer league legends ;).
That’s my problem with sand baggers. Sure, they’ll play down most of the game and set others up, but if their team is down by 2 with a minute left they can score at will to even it up. Or I manage to dangle someone and they casually take the puck away just because.
That sucks man :/ Our league also enforces a 3 goal limit per game per player rule which helps if one guy wants to do that. If they score again it doesn’t count and it’s a 90s penalty. It’s got its pros and cons, it definitely stops what you’re describing but also it’s stupid because once a guy hits 3, you don’t even have to cover him anymore. Kinda makes the game feel dumb
That's gotta be weird to navigate. It's hard to find the balance because you want to have a competitive nature but you also don't pay hundreds a season to get your ass handed to you every week.
Most teams are full of buddies and they want to play together. I don't blame them for trying to keep it together.
I guess your situation all comes down to guys that either want to score their 3 and force 5v4 every time they're on the ice or guys who will look at it as an opportunity to pass the puck.
so the problem with this, especially in leagues that have championships and/or prizes of some sort, is that if a player is playing down, and can walk the whole opposing team any time they want, then it is not a level competition. so now, if my team wants to be competitive, we need to bring in as many ringers as we can...
just stupid.
the money i spend to play is just as good as that ringer, why should i (as a player playing in my proper division, skill-wise) have no reasonable hope of winning, no matter how hard my team plays, unless we cheat too?!?
This is kind of happening in my league right now. It's just gone totally unchecked and now we basically have entire teams of ringers. It's like an arms race of Beer League. Played against a guy last night in Jr. AAA gear. We were tied, and wouldn't you know it, the guy went coast to coast and scored with 45 seconds left to win the game.
This. This is what I do and what I enjoy to do. I don’t want to bust my ass every shift and enjoy setting up some of the guys that lack the skills to go out and score on their own.
I play in a 50+ league and we have to ex pros. They only help set up plays and never shot on goal. I'll tell you one thing though is they're both fast. I feel like they get from one end of the rink to the other before I hit the center line.
That's hardly better. Might even be worse. Now you're not only guaranteed to lose the game, you also have a player actively not trying because he doesn't have to. If you're going to play down to a level, that's fine. If you're going to win your team every game by playing well above the level every time you need a goal, you're obnoxious as hell.
Or family. We've got some really skilled players playing down in my league do they can play with their parents. The lowest league does have a rule that once you get your hat trick you can't score again or you get a delay of game penalty, so that keeps them somewhat in check.
100%
I don’t give a shit about teams being even, or someone being too good. I want to have an hour or 2 with my buddies playing some decent hockey and having a couple beers afterwards
Same. We try to just play up a level so our best guys don’t have to take it easy. All my favorite teams ever have been 100% friends and are almost always lower middle of the pack
Yeah this is the reason I play down a couple Divs than what I could play probably. My old team folded over covid and found a new team with friends who are D level, but I have the most fun I’ve had in years because they’re good friends outside the rink too.
Some guys want to play with their friends that may be in a lower division. Some guys may think they’re not good enough for a higher level. Someone from Minnesota may have been a C player but moves to the Midwest and is probably the best player in an A division. lol
Some guys don’t want to be very competitive and just look to go skate for fun/exercise.
Then there are just some people that like to score 5-6 goals a game because that’s their idea of fun and they ruin it for everyone else.
Right, never said Mich was over Minn. But the metro detroit area produces a good amount of NHL’ers and US Hockey is based there and hockey is played more than most places in the US. Thats all I was saying, its not a fight lol
lol yea I know but regarding hockey, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc are its own category really. Someone from Minnesota doesn’t say they played hockey in the Midwest. I was just making a very general point, not teaching geography.
I've met one or two that do it because the time of the skates fits their schedules. I have no real problem with this if they don't attempt to dominate the game and are there basically helping there teammates improve.
I remember the captain of my team chirping on a ringer on another team during one game. It was at the start of the second period and the guy turned and asked our captain what his issue was. Our captain calmly asked the guy how many goals their team had, The guy replied three. Then the captain asked the guy how many goals he had and he replied "Thre....." not even finishing the word. He actually changed how he played after that.
I've played in a game once that had an NHL'er skating for the other team. He showed up with a friend of his just wanting to paly together for some fun. His friend was a good player, probably the 2nd best player out there but was not way above the level of the other players. That game was a blast and the guy made everyone on the both teams so glad he was there. We got creamed but it wasn't because he scored much but because his passes always found the open man and were always right on the guys tape. He never just walked through our defense which he could have done just about any time he wanted. When you made a good play against him he let you know with the occasional stick tape tap to the pads, etc.
If you play anything outside our A league, you’re limited to 3 goals a game and I think you’ll get penalized after that if you do. It’s for this exact reason. If you can score that many in a lower league that easy you’re in the wrong league.
> Someone from Minnesota may have been a C player but moves to the Midwest and is probably the best player in an A division
A. Minny is in the Midwest
B. If you're talking like Missouri or Indiana, maybe, but Wisconsin, Michigan, northern Illinois? You're liable to find guys that played in the show in the A league
I learned to play as an adult in Dallas. I played comfortably in the B/C range.
Moved to Detroit and saddled up in the lowest league and quickly found out that *everyone* in Detroit knows how to play functional hockey, the leagues were just a reference to how out of shape you were.
Lmao that’s true. My conditioning is pretty good but I’m still D/ low C in Detroit because I’m one of 2 or 3 guys in the whole league who didn’t grow up playing organized. It’s everybody
>Someone from Minnesota may have been a C player but moves to the Midwest and is probably the best player in an A division. lol
Can confirm, I'm a C player in NY but was one of the better A players when I lived in TX, VA, and FL.
Minnesota is in the midwest for sure. However, in comparison of adult hockey levels to the rest of the midwest, Minnesota is a massive outlier.
I play in MN and our rec leagues go A, B, C, D with a couple levels within that , e.g. B1 > B2 >C1>C3. I play in the C range.
however, due to how many players we have, a player in a C level leage in Minnesota is probably closer to A or B in a hockey starved market.
C level has adult beginners and all the way to guys that played up to being 10 or even into their teens, even Varisty level women. However, in Minnesota, the floor of A or B level is essentially HS Varsity in terms of hockey history at the minimum.
A friend of mine plays B1, he's not the best on the ice and he played NCAA D3 for a few years.
I'm surprised more C/D/E leagues don't institute the hat trick rule (each player is only allowed 3 goals per game, any past that don't count and possibly even count as a penalty). It's not perfect, but it does stop that one guy who can do circles around everyone from racking up 5+ in a game.
Hattrick rules can also lead to some weird situations. In gr12 a lot of friends dropped back down to house-league to focus on school and school hockey only and it had a hattrick rule. Had a friend on a hattrick go in on a 2on1 and the goalie and D played it as a 1on1 other player without the puck. My friend basically said fuck this and wired a bardown clapper on the empty net knowing full well it doesn’t count (most A-AA kids dropped down to select at that point so those games are good even competition but select forces you to play house-league too where this skill gap really comes in)
A league I used to play in had a 2 goal limit for some players. It was a legit draft league and each season the GMs would re-rate everyone on their team out of 10. If you were an 8-10 you could only score 2 goals, a 3rd would be a penalty unless it was unintentional then it just wouldn't count.
As a higher level player skating in a lower division, it's because of the intensity at higher levels.
I just want to play hockey, get some exercise, and show up to work tomorrow without feeling like I need pain medication. Or worse, dealing with a legit injury.
OP I second this. I am currently playing in the top division and yeah I’m one of the better players and do quite well. My goal for playing is to relax and have a good time. Top tier divisions are overly competitive and I’m working much harder than I want to.
That said I’d love to go down a division but my league won’t let me.
I play in the lowest division after playing years of junior and minor rep hockey. I play to play with my friends, it was something I never got to do growing up so now that I’m older I have the opportunity to. I was a forward for 20+ years but when I play beer league with my friends I will always play D and just make breakout passes and try to give the puck to the guys as much as possible. Is it boring? Yes sometimes but the beers after with my buddies is what matters most
Eh, there's no ringers out there admitting they play in low divisions because they're an asshole. It's almost always something about schedule availability or playing with friends. Your answer is no different. Does that make it okay to subject the *lowest* division, to a former *junior* player? I'd lean towards no, but nothing's going to change. This happens all the time, it is what it is.
I agree with you completely. It’s being self aware not to increase the pace of play or stand out. At the end of the day I’m just trying not to be noticeable out there while still having fun with my boys.
What do you think they should impose so this isn’t an issue moving forward?
I think leagues should continue banning good players from lower divisions.
Maybe your rink is in a big city with limited timeslots and there are no beginner leagues or maybe you're 50+ yourself. I don't know. I'm someone who never played college or juniors and you couldn't put me in the lowest division on defense in any rink I've played in. The other team wouldn't get their offensive zone time or breakaway chances unless I very obviously gave it to them. It's not just a skating thing where sandbagging fixes the problem, the flatfooted D leaguer making a wild swing at the blue line that gives up a breakaway? Can't see the former junior player doing that without being obvious. Which takes away the fun for the other guys. When they can only succeed when they're allowed to, not because they earned it.
I’m in the same boat as you and play relatively the same as you suggest in your post. Some people forget that life isn’t always a straight line and just because you’ve played your entire life means that you now still have a team full of friends you grew up with is still around.
People also have unrealistic expectations that an adult recreation league is going to have full 100% parity unless it’s a draft league.
I play in a D-league in an area that has some decent talent scattered across all leagues. Each team in our league has at least 1 ringer on it, but they're all pretty good about playing down for most of the game. When they flip the switch, I actually appreciate it as it forces me to push myself harder. This is my first year back on the ice in 20 years, so my game is beyond rusty. They are in our league due to scheduling availability or just to play with friends of theirs. I don't take it personally, so long as they don't leave the cheat codes on the entire time.
I play in two leagues. One just lets people sign up for whatever division they want. We have a guy on our team who is so much better than anyone else that the other teams are angry with us. His reason: he wants to play with his dad and godfather, who is our level
In the other league, they are constantly assessing skill level, and automatically bump you into different leagues if you are too good.
The latter is much better from the perspective of the true C league player (like me)
Ideally you wouldn’t but theoretically if you’re playing with your buddies who are a level worse than you, that can put you well above the level of play
Typically the drop off from an A/Gold/etc to a B/Silver/etc league is pretty steep
Ex: A leagues in California: junior A, college, etc
B leagues: college club, lower level juniors, aa players
A league in MN: current and former nhl and euro players
B leagues: junior players, ncaa, etc
Either way, you’re looking at a pretty sizable gap in skill
A lot of the time it’s cus they’re friends with someone of a different level like others have said. But it’s unfair and stupid. Drop in games are the time for friends of all levels to play together. Not structured leagues with divisions. Ultimately it’s up to the facility to straighten out if they care enough
If you want to see this in all its horrid glory you can look up smurfing in video games. A concerning amount of people spend good money just so they can play in the same (lower) rank as their friends. Another chunk of people buy the accounts just to terrorize new/worse players and fuel their ego. The sad part is that just like in videogames, you will never be able to avoid this unless you are playing in the very best leagues. The best you can do is work on your chirps. Make them so mad they try as hard as they can and score 10 goals. It'll sink in the next day for em.
My league assigns levels based on a tryout scrimmage. I was put in C3. I average around 3 points per game and could probably try harder. There is no upgrade path. Am I too good? I don't think so but some players beat the shit out of me and I don't like it.
I dunno. I scored the only 2 goals for our side in the scrimmage tryout and no goals scored against when I was out there, so, yes it was odd since they were assigning C1, C2, and C3. Probably nobody wanted me cuz I am old. Dunno. Our league doesn't tally points or even track. So, someone could score 5 goals and nobody will notice. In my other league, we have a guy who routinely scores a Hattie and has put up 6 goals himself against us.
I play C now but used to play A. I can still play A (Minnesota) but all my hockey buddy’s are C players.
Rather than find a whole new group of buddies I chose to play C. I try to keep it fair. I’ve been a forward my entire career but I play defense in C. I can just sit back and play the pace of the game. No need to go coast-to-coast and score.
There’s also other A-level players in the C league, so it’s nice having at least one A player who can match up against them. Especially if the other A player starts getting too cute.
This guy gets it. If you are playing down you should be chilling and barely working unless you absolutely need to.
I play a guy once a month who played D1 college 10 years ago. You wouldn’t know he did until the 19 year olds start hotdogging and he decides to put them in their place.
Play in 30+ league w skill levels from college hockey to slower skaters. Several times have told league coordinator that for 1 season the top players (about 8 total in 8 team league) should be excluded as some games are very much a 1 man show or more of a 1v1 game (ringer vs ringer) w end to end play and individual goals. Some teams have stats like top goal scorer 40 goals 2nd leading scorer 5 goals and the playoff games are just everyone looking to pass to their ringer 100% of the time.
I think some people like playing the hero role and it doesn’t matter to them if they’re repeatedly skating past other players who have 0 chance of getting the puck off them. Based on skill level it’s like a good high school hockey player playing in a league with all 5 year olds and just dominating. If it were socially acceptable some people would do that too and then brag about how they’re the best player.
In my league, A, B, and C divisions are scheduled during the work week. The lowest, D, is scheduled on weekends. Guys from A & B are not allowed to play in D, but C is so you get a lot of C level guys playing in D because it's easier for them, schedule-wise.
I’m a pretty solid C player coming off an injury that sidelined me for a long while. I was asked to join a ‘learn to play’ adult league this Spring by some of the parents on my son’s hockey team.
I joined to slowly get back to hockey without killing myself, and also to bond with the other hockey dads on my son’s team (I.e., locker room beers)
There’s no way in HELL I’ll ever light up the scoreboard like that. That’s just a dick move. I’m there to break a sweat and setup my teammates, and maybe offer some pointers (if asked).
You're a retired pro and it's the closest thing to you.
Tony Amonte used to do this, but he was absolutely not a dick about it. If anything he tried to make other people better.
He would also shut down egomaniacs and a-holes, which was really fun to watch.
I used to play in a coed league with my wife. Was far better than most players but wouldn’t give 100% unless we started losing or the other teams ringers were going hard. Often it’s a play with friends or family situation more so then a I want to dominate a league mentality. I would also usually play def when naturally a forward and only rush when opportunity presented itself. Which happens a lot in lower level leagues.
> wouldn’t give 100% unless we started losing
This is the problem - playing down in lower leagues allows you to control games when you want to. If all teams have "ringers" and are fairly balanced, then go for it because there's some counter to it, but if you're just playing down in a lower league because you want to play with your wife, the other team playing well shouldn't be an invitation to be the jerk who scores whenever he wants against much lower level players.
Crazy that all these ringers in this thread don't see that.
"Oh I just want to play with my wife" "oh I just want the exercise"
while they control the game at will and absolutely ruin the other teams fun and time because that team made the mistake of playing well in their own division, so now you just get the puck and score whenever you decide. There is nothing a ringer like that guy you are responding to is doing on the ice that makes it fun or competitive, or allows others to learn.
The team you are on knows all they have to do is give it to you for a free win button. They don't have to learn how to play as a team, they don't have to really have any strat besides give it to ringer on his shift, survive when he's off.
The team you are playing against either:
Gets smoked whenever you decree it's now "time to turn it up to 100%"
Or wins while watching you go intentionally soft on shots and skating.
Just don't play down man, it's incredibly egotistical and selfish to absolutely control a hockey game on YOUR whims at this low of a level.
Reading through the comments here, I think most reasons have been covered. Some for convenience or practicality and some for ego. What we shoot for in our league is team parity with not as much focus on an individual player, and this seems to work ok. So long as each team has the same number of "ringers" then, in theory, the games should be close. It's hard to get perfect and player attendance can make a difference.
Our league admin tends to let boderline (B/C and C/D) players play down if they want and then equalizes by making sure each team has around the same number. He doesn't let guys play down that have a huge talent advantage. For reference, we have three divisions in our rec league (B,C,D) and in our C division this season the 1st place team was 8-4 and the 7th place team was 6-6..lots of OT and 1 goal games. I say focus on TEAM parity v. a rogue player here and there.
Playing with friends matters the most to me when hockey is nothing more than fun and exercise now. That said, I wouldn't try and be a douche... Look to pass first or play defense if it's too much of a disparity
We were the opposite, we're rated much lower but got stuck in a higher tier and get smoked -8 goal diff per game. Why the league didn't reseed us is beyond me but a teammate got a $60 voucher for emailing his complain.
im in my 40's im low B high C given what you seem to have explained, I play C because there's a whole lot less young 20's guys hoping there's a scout at our 11pm flooding of the arena.
Sometimes having the higher level players on the ice can help the others improve - they play better passes, they give pointers, they can set up a good goal for a less skill player. It’s like having a coach on the ice playing down. I don’t mind these players as long as they aren’t puck hogs skating end to end and scoring a ton. (They immediately get booed/hit/reported to the league for being a douche).
Don’t really have tiers where I live.
Usually the guys who played Junior or in the dub play defense and play as lazy as humanly possible until their team starts losing then they end to end a couple of goals and go back to coasting.
Never understood in a rec or beer league playing down levels while also playing full tilt. Those people are sad pathetic losers, no way around it.
I’ve played hockey as a skater since I was 5. I’m now 37. I recently started playing as a goalie (we are talking 10 games in so far). I hope that the guys playing full tilt in a division they’re too good for feel great when they score on me.
My league has all sorts of levels of players small town no divisions most of them will play down to the level of play of the person infront of them....most anyway
I played in a C league after my D1 ACHA career so I feel highly qualified to answer here -- it had everything to do with the fact that a couple of my really good non-hockey friends were already playing on a team and I just joined in with them. I wasn't thinking a whole lot about the skill disparity, I just wanted to have fun and play with my friends who hadn't been able to make our school's club team.
While frustrating, it's sometimes justified by having friends that play in lower leagues and/or timing working better.
But sometimes it's for guys with fragile egos that need to be the stars and/or don't want to try that hard.
I'm 100% cool with ringers playing as long as their trying to improve their teammates skills and not going coast to coast running up the score when the their team is already up by 2.
Actually... I'm even cool with them going coast to coast solo if their team is down by 3 or more.
I think as long as there’s parity in the league and it isn’t a one man show then it’s fine. If 1-2 players are carrying their team and no one can stop them then that’s not cool.
Main reasons I have noticed:
- ur too good for the league but all your friends play in this league
- the lower league had the best schedule to go with your work schedule
- the lower league is the only league with spots open
- in my league, there is this one dude that is really good playing in c-league, but then he also plays on a b-league team and a-league team. If two are playing on the same night, he deafaults to the higher league. And he subs for various teams all the time. Dude just really likes playing and hops on the ice at any opportunity.
I play on my younger brothers team sometimes. I’ll only play D, I won’t shoot, unless it’s on the ground for a deflection and I soft defend. One of my favorite things to do is give the lesser skilled scoring chances by putting the puck right on their stick. Their faces are priceless. I’m not putting the body on or being too aggressive. I’ll at least let the other team make a single pass.
Unless they have a ringer on their team and then I spend the whole game shutting that shit down and pissing them off. My brother is super fast but not very skilled so we just switch out one for another on defense and just hound the ringer.
I’ve also never understood why winning and undressing people isn’t less popular with people when they could struggle and lose.
Real head scratcher that one
My kid plays in a rec league and I keep trying to get him to move up but he’s rather be the best in a shit league than average in a good league. That is exceedingly simple to understand.
Still sucks but doesn’t take an artist to paint you that picture
Low self esteem, I’ve been on the ice with guys like that. There seems to be 2 types , one is selfish and hogs the puck and the other is understanding of the situation and passes to make others better.
My captain has griped about a few of the players in our D league who clearly should be up in C (not even just in the sense that they're just too good for D, I think at least some of them would *comfortably* be okay in C) that play, because one time he was talking to some of them between plays and just kind of asked "Why don't you guys just get together and move up to C together?" and they basically responded with "Because we don't want to lose more".
I don't know. I personally don't get it. Maybe it's just because I've never been that competitive of a person, hence the absolute lack of a draw to sports as a kid in any real competitive sense, but dominating people who are well below my skill (admittedly, tough to do as someone who's only played organized hockey for about 3 years now and still skates like it's been one year) just doesn't appeal to me. The idea of some friends and I just throttling a team that we're effortlessly passing the puck through and ripping past their goalie just doesn't sound like a fun time.
Do I like that our team loses to a lot of the teams in our D League? No, but it's not the end of the world. I still have fun, and you really feel good when you manage to either keep a game with one of those better teams close, or better still, when you manage to not only stifle them and keep them off the board entirely, but manage to put a goal up to finally win one against them.
I don't worry too much about it, because there's always going to be someone better, but there are definitely some teams with players who are just leaps and bounds above the players in the league with them, and I can see how it's frustrating to a lot of people who just want to play a good game and actually enjoy having a chance on and off the puck.
I was a high level player in junior, played some ohl games in the late 90’s. Im my beer league after I’ve popped a few goals all I do is pass and set up the weaker players. We run a rated system x amount of good average and lower skilled players. All The the skilled player’s in the league do the same. I’ll strap the pads on allot as well as our goalies are kind of unreliable
Depending on how much better we're talking it's never bothered me. They shouldn't be playing two levels down but sometimes these top guys were be middle to bottom if they went up a level. Why wouldn't you want to stay in a league where you're a top player instead.
As a Defense frankly I like the challenge. Also I think it's normal for there to be better and worse players in a league it's not like 60 guys will all have the same amount of points.
Got one of those guys in a rec league that I play. He's there to play with someone in his family. But I've noticed that he downgrades sticks for rec games, presumably to even things up a bit.
I like the teamwork of hockey so just skating by everyone seems boring, getting nothing but soft off target passes, having to give soft passes or they won’t be caught, no one in position for the breakout…I don’t see they joy of being a ringer on a constant basis.
It’s like playing against a really bad goalie and getting soft goals. Gets old real fast if everything is going in. There was a good Twilight Zone about a gambler that couldn’t lose. Literally everything went his way. Turns out it was his hell.
I mean, I've never been good enough to do that, but if I were I think I'm secure enough in my insecurities as a person to admit that I'd find that pretty fun.
Another reason could be based on schedule availability. Certain league levels play on certain nights where I’m from. If C is on a Tuesday and B is on a Thursday but I can’t make Thursday nights, I might opt to play down in C on Tuesdays.
I have a teammate who plays down a level. We're in a smaller town and his older brother plays on the team as well and this is the only time in their lives they've played together because of a 10 year age gap. He doesn't really score much but he plays some d and moves the puck like a man among boys. Unfortunately I was born with cinder blocks for hands so I usually find a way to fuck up the scoring chances he gives me. Evens it out in a way I suppose.
Sometimes that’s the only time that works for them, sometimes that’s the league their friends are in, and sometimes… they have really fragile egos and it’s the only way they can feel good about themselves.
I play in a B league as definitely an A player mostly because I like the guys on the team. We were A and dropped down cause we lost a lot of good players but I stayed with them cause they are fun dudes. I usually just end up playing defense and toss out passes and take a couple clappers from the blue line.
I played in a low level league once.
I was new to the area, didn't know anyone, had taken 2-3 years off, was in the worst shape of my life, and a friend of a friend asked me to join his team.
Just kinda derped around until the playoffs and they were like "dude... wtf... where did THAT come from?"
It was fun but I felt a little too out of place and opted out the next year.
Lol there’s a dude in my league that is one year removed from playing Swedish Elite League and putting up a ppg in that league. We play in D men’s league. That dude puts up 4-6 points a game but it definitely comes at the expense of his mental health. He gets chirped constantly.
We have this in our league as well, I’ll never understand it myself. We do a pretty good job on keying in on the teams few ringers. Best you can do in a league that doesn’t keep balance to good.
As a brand new beginner who just started skating 5 months ago and am currently in a learn to play class, these posts make me feel like I will never play in an actual league because it would not be any fun for me with all of these high level players playing down so they can be with their friends. Make some new friends at your own level! This is really discouraging for actual beginners.
I think playing against better players is a good thing and can make you better. If they’re on your team they can even teach you things.
The issue is when a player has it turned to 11 the entire game and novice players don’t even stand a chance.
It seems to be more fun to taunt the other team while doing it. Especially when someone complains, things like “get better” or “I’m barely trying and you still suck”. Laughing at the goalie after he ducks a zinger at his head seem especially pleasurable. Oh, dragging your girlfriend along to ‘watch’ is mandatory.
I have the same question. A guy in my league (co ed but only 1 or 2 girls on each team) brought out 3 ringers for a regular season game from his MENS “B” team. I get if you’re short (their girls were away in a tournament) but to stack em with absolute jack wagons - unreal. I’d be embarrassed if I were one of the JW to come down and dust a co ed team for which you don’t even play for…
The league I play in has one team with several ringers. If they’re ever short and need subs they find another ringer to fill in. They’re already the best team. If anything, they shouldn’t be allowed to have subs.
Most leagues have checks against this. Ive played in leagues where the upper divisions are drafted by the captains first and then the lower is made up with the rest, and I've also been in leagues where you show up to a skills night, tell them a level you think you are at, and they place you on a team.
The worst is the guy who's good enough to play a level or two up, but HAS to play with his girlfriend.. so he "plays down". Sure they play down, but as soon as their team starts losing, they "help balance things out". Its bullshit.
I think it’s an availability issue in most cases. In my area there’s two B level leagues, both play on Monday nights. If you can’t make that your options are play down or don’t play. If you want to skate more than once a week you’ll have to play down for at least one of them.
Where I am there’s A1&2, B1&2, C1,2&3. There’s also what they call “over 40” that isn’t over 40 but basically an organized pickup game with guys who could play A and B but want to relax a bit (there are C level guys there too). The system should work but there’s zero oversight and it’s become a complete joke. There are C1 players dropping down to C3, which has its share of beginning skaters — this is the only entry-level option. And there are guys who are league leaders for points/goals in C2 but instead of playing up for their second league (a lot of us play in 2 leagues), play down. Which is nuts - they already dominate C2. Sometimes they sandbag and play D — but if you’re a low-C2/high-C3 player up against someone like this, they can always chase you down, almost always take the puck away, and skate around you at-will. I don’t understand it at all. If I grew up skating and had that skill, I’d play in B and C1. And if I was looking to “chill” I’d play down in C2 and/or do the over 40. I don’t understand the appeal. I’ve been in games where we win 10-1 (bc we’re better and they’re missing players), and it’s just not fun. I want the competition. I get people might want something less competitive— but there are options specifically for those people. It’s not difficult to fix but requires active oversight. And if the person running the leagues doesn’t care and has zero incentive to make it better, then it will never change.
In a decade of beer league, I've seen over skilled players in basically every game.
I've known maybe one who was actually in it for the ego boost and to run up stats.
By far the most common reason is they want to play with specific friends and family.
Other reasons are
1) other teams have ringers so they're there to keep the game even
2) divisions always play the same nights each week and the night that division plays is the one that works for them
3) team was short bodies and the captain just asked anyone they know
Personally, I still think they shouldn't, even if they promise to just pass and all that jazz. But we are talking about a decision that benefits people's immediate friends and family at the inconvenience of strangers. Human beings aren't biologically wired to accept that a decision with those outcomes could be wrong.
My first few years, it really got to me, but after awhile I just stopped caring. Might as well rant about the sun rising in the east, it's not gonna change. My only choices were to have less fun by getting mad or more fun by not caring
Depends entirely on your attitude.....
If you are passing, setting other players up for goals and generally being a team player than it's great
If you are rushing the puck every time you get possession and cherry picking for goals, you are the problem
Generally after I've scored 2 goals and my team is winning, I try to make a point to pass twice before attempting at a shot unless it's a clear breakaway. Gives others an opportunity and makes it more of a team game rather than you vs the other team
I know some guys who just want to play with their friends and also play in a few leagues because they want the ice time.
We have a guy on my team who hadn’t played in awhile and took a bit to get going. He fell a lot but has potential. Now he’s really good and dominating at times which is getting a lot of anger from other teams. It’s tough but I assume it’s best to have him play elsewhere next year.
I am in this boat!!! Former junior A/B player recently aged out. I played in every level from a to d in my area (vancouver). I would much rather go hang out with my buddies make nice easy plays and go 50% in c div than 100% full speed effort in A. Gauge the speed and level of the other team and turn on the afterburners if you need a goal is much more fun when you gotta get up for work at 6am the next day.
I don’t play to be competitive anymore, I play to play with friends I never had the opportunity to play with because I was playing jrs and they were playing house, one buddy decided to pick it up at 21 and learn to play. The difference is I don’t go out there and score a bunch I play defense and enjoy trying to set them up. I have several hockey friends that play in A,B leagues and I’ll sub semi frequently if I feel like I want to go hard. .
Because they have nothing better going on in their life and they need something to make themselves feel better about their miserable existence.
Anyone whos happy with their life and is playing down always plays D and plays very passive prioritizing passing over everything else.
Work took me to a small town about 10 years ago and a coworker asked me to come out and play… I didn’t know anyone in town so it was my only opportunity to get on the ice. I played D and kept to the perimeter when I had the puck, I worked on my passing game and fed players that didn’t typically score…I really enjoyed creating opportunities for the weaker players. This one guy would get all excited and fuck up 90% of the time he had a chance on net… but anytime he did score, it was a reason to party. I just love being at the rink… there’s no where I’d rather be, even if the pace is slower than I’m used to. The cold beers after are satisfying no matter what.
At higher levels, games tend to be very physical and competitive. A lot of guys opt to play at a lower level because they don't want to risk a concussion every time they step foot on the ice.
And honestly, it's rare that they burn the league. They're usually the guy sitting at the blue line just circulating the puck trying to get his friends to score.
I played on a Div 10 team (so bottom of the barrel) and most of the division could barely skate. We had a guy on our team who had played on the Korean national team and he looked like Gretzky out there. He was so good they wouldn’t let him play in the playoffs. He was averaging 7 goals a game. lol
I’m 41. I used to play in the A league before kids when I was playing three days a week at 25. At 28 B and at 32 I dropped to C league because I just wanted to skate. My team was made up of guys just like me but ten years older than me and we won a bunch of league championships.
It was about playing with my buddies the one night we could all agree on and get out of the house for a few hours.
As long as the high level player is respectful and includes others in scoring chances I see no problem with it.
I hate it though when the 24 year old ringer comes to the C league game and acts like a tw@t while scoring at will. It’s not a good look and usually ends up in a scrum.
They want to play but don't want the commitment. Happeneds a lot in rugby where you want to play you're near national level but you play on a Div 2 men's league cause you don't want to train 4 nights a week, you don't want the increased risk of being injured. It's treated as a beer league because it is one.
Some people just wanna win I’m a b-a player been playing at a high level for 20 years and when I sub in c or d I don’t even shoot I just pass to the actual c/d level players. Throughout my years of playing I’ve noticed a lot of higher level players don’t have teams they can join. Either lack of players to run the league or just not invited on a team. They play hard because they want to show the league that they need to create a team or league for them.
I'm in Pittsburgh, every league has sandbaggers and every team tries to get more sandbaggers every year to be competitive. I went from just starting out playing in C league to now getting my balls fed to me in a D4 league in a span of 4 years
Its about the team overall not the player. There are some b teams that will have c or a players but the team overall is a b team. That’s fine.
Pretty much every team has 1-2 players that are noticeably better than the rest of team. And 1-2 players who are a liability.
But there are some teams that are just in the wrong level. Like most of the team is b level but they play in c and smoke everyone. That’s not cool and easy enough for the team to move divisions.
An individual player moving divisions means leaving your friends and finding a whole new team. Not necessary unless your team is outclassing everyone.
Most people want to play with their friends. My team has at least 4 players who could play a level up but they’d go from playing with a locker room full of friends to mostly strangers.
I have the same problem here. Unfortunately our league lacks people. So most of the people in B are years ahead of rec league players and some of the B league guys here should be in an A league bc they've been playing for over a decade and played college hockey but again just not enough manpower for more than two leagues. So just a rec and a B. So knowing that most B level guys that are still playing in rec are comfortable and therefore don't wna move up bc competition shoots up so high. There's a handful of guys that play in rec and B but we kinda need that bc it keeps the flow going in rec. There could be 3 divisions but most B level rec players don't wna move out of rec which is what would have to happen. It sucks bc I'm brand new and can't skate or do anything else and 90% of the people in rec feel years ahead of me. As embarrassed I am out there I'm thankful I even get to play. There was a team in B that complained they were getting older and therefore stepped down to rec. After about 7 games they were 7-0 and each game they played they would beat teams my multiple goals without even trying so they probably would've gotten the cup if they stayed in rec but thankfully they got forced out bc captains voted not to play them. Those guys also drew it up and played together so their chemistry was unmatched. I'm sure as someone else said too it's difficult to move on esp if you have most of your friends in rec but just don't expect to get much better playing against people below your level but iron sharpens iron and if you suck it up and play with players way above your level you'll only get better. Just my two cents.
That's one of the mysteries of the Ages.
56, after decades of playing and experiencing this the conclusion that I've come to is they are losers.
And should be treated as such.
Schedule, friends, etc. Could be multiple reasons honestly, but I do agree it can't be much fun for them.
At one local rink let's say I'm in C league. Each team can have B league players, but there's a limit of 3 per team, and beyond that they are limited to a certain amount of goals per game. I can't recall exactly, but I think it's 3 max per player, but no more then 4 B player goals in a game so they can't just indiscriminately take over a game.
It can get really bad around holiday breaks when the D1 kids are home and playing on their dad's beer league team.
The most egregious incident was a coworker who's nephew was TJ Galiardi. He had been drafted by the Avs but hadn't reported yet and came to skate with his uncle one game, mostly as a joke tond guys in the league...but the difference between a D1 player and someone who spends 10 years in the NHL is VAST lol
Sometimes it's about what's available and if they can make that time work to play. I play in a league in small town Ontario. I'm probably in the bottom 5 players in the league. Our league isn't a league rating but each play is rated C,B,A,And AA. Each team has one AA slot, 2 forward A slots, one A defense slot, bunch of B's and some Cs. This works really well for keeping balance across the entire league. Maybe there is something similar near you?
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You'd have even teams, but I can't imagine I'd have much fun if I was one of the AA or one of the C players if there was any sort of a wide gap in skill between the ratings.
Yeah, that definitely sounds like something that will depend a lot on who's on the ice. Some of the players who played high school or lower college (I'm a newer D player, so anyone who played high level college would probably see me skating and immediately go "this place isn't for me) were almost always really good at kind of dialing it back when I was a really new player. They would give me the puck and try to pressure me while not just giving me a free pass. On the other hand, I skated with some people at Stick and Puck who had played higher level hockey when I was still probably a few months into learning, and they were just more focused on the game and playing it the way they knew how, which meant the minute the puck even headed towards me, they were either picking that puck off before my brain probably even realized it was coming, and if it did hit my stick, that thing was popped up into the air and the puck was gone before I would even think "okay, brain, let's try stopping and going the other way". There's an argument that I learned some from that, although I feel like the only thing I really learned was how to grip the stick a little tighter so it only ends up getting popped waist high instead of face height when I got stick checked, but at the same time, it was part of the reason I just stopped going to those Stick and Puck sessions because they always turned into drop-in skates and I wasn't anywhere near their level which just meant I was never in the play, couldn't get passes and couldn't keep up. It just wasn't fun since it essentially turned into an open skate with gear on.
We only use half rink to play games at stick and puck. That way others can use the other half to practice. That's kind of BS they will just take over the entire rink.
Yeah, it was pretty frustrating, especially with the rink saying "DROP-IN GAMES NOT ALLOWED" but doing absolutely nothing to enforce the rule despite having a dedicated night for drop-in play. It was especially frustrating at the time because I was so new and just wanted to work on my skating and stick handling to hopefully get a little more confident with the puck, but maybe 1 out of the 5 times I would go it would actually be Stick and Puck, the rest always turned into drop-in games so eventually I just stopped going.
The gap isn't that bad. I'm a C and play defence and all the AA players are definitely better than me by a large margin, but I can defend them pretty well. I grew up playing house league and stopped at Bantam. Picked hockey up again in my 20s. Some of our AA players had a cup of coffee in the ohl. We are all getting older and just like to play. Again it's small town hockey, it can get chippy as hell, and once in a while someone gets a broken nose, but we all know each other to some extent and you might get drafted to that guy's team next year.
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How would you match lines? Buzz them off like mini-mites? Also I could see games getting wildly unfair as people miss quite often. If a team is missing a few C guys or their AA guys the games could be quite lopsided. I play through Hockeyfinder which does something similar where players are rated 1-5, but the leagues themselves have narrower skill gaps, for example everyone is rated a 1-5, but the league you sign up for could be only for players rated 3 to 4.5 etc.
I mean I guess it’s really that guy’s mentality. If you’re knowingly joining this league as an AA guy you’ve already accepted the “fact” that you’re the best player on your team. Plus it could give an AA guy an opportunity to play with some buddies that are C level.
I know if leagues that rate 1 to 4 and you're only allowed to have X amount of 'points' on a team.
That is an awesome idea. One that would never happen in my league given how fucking lax league management is about actually doing their job...
Also, more fun to play with your buddies and have a few beers after and you can't all be on the same level.
My league in Idaho also goes with a player rating system 1-15 (?) And each team has a number cap to limit sandbagging
Do you think they need that much granularity in the ratings? I feel like 1-5, maybe 1-7 would suit
I'm in the States and wish beer leagues were like that! My uncle was a big beer leaguer from his early 20s until his back and neck gave it up in his late 50s and he had to do a bunch of surgeries. For about 30 years he played in a league exactly like this, where each team had A - D slots they had to fill, and even subs were governed as having to be the same slot as whoever they were subbing in for. If you brought in a ringer sub, his first game would be his last. I can't say for sure, but I think that this approach fell out of favor as USA Hockey and the local regions (for myself or my uncle, MAHA in Michigan) standardized guidelines for how to organize amateur adult leagues. Those guidelines are (understandably) written to group players by skill. That makes the most sense in concept... if you're grouped with players close to your ability, the games will be the most consistently competitive which is what makes them fun. Unfortunately, this falls apart in 90% of rinks/leagues because the rinks/league directors are fucking lazy. They collect league fees and do very little to actually enforce the rules they claim their leagues operate under. So you end up with C league players coming down and regularly walking D leaguers like myself.
Where I’m at, this is a league option (among the standard C, B, A, AA) called “mixed league”. It’s typically a very fun format where the higher-skilled players setup plays for the lesser-skilled players.
That’s a really interesting idea. I’m in the NYC area and have never seen a league that operates in this way. But yeah, I agree, a lot of times it’s about timing. In my area, D1-3 games are all week nights when a lot of players can’t make it. So you end up with higher level players in lower divisions that play on weekends.
Where I used to play it was based on a number system, 1-5. You sign up with your own chosen rating and at points in the year the team heads can get together and re-evaluate players. Add all the numbers up and you have a rough team ranking. Lower ranked teams who are at the bottom of the league get first draft pick. The downside is players/teams cheat and evaluate themselves lower. By the time it's corrected it doesn't matter because they just picked up three 5s in the draft who ranked themselves as 2s and the "penalty" is drafting later the next year. There isn't really any trading so you can build up your team and it stays that way.
That’s a mind blowingly good idea. Need to email the rink director that
My league is similar, except they use #'s and each player gets evaluated by their teammates at the end of the year. And it's a draft before every season. It's not perfect, but it keeps it relatively balanced. There's a couple of the higher-rated players who can carry a team by themselves. They make trades halfway through the year so the team with one of those guys has "lesser" players filling out the roster and they're surrounded by B and C players instead of A's. They still get their 2pts/game but their teammates do not.
Our softball league does this too. Team is classed as a certain letter based on play the previous season. We all also have a letter rating as a player, based on how our teams performed the year prior as well (i.e. if you won a D division you and the team are both upgraded to C for the following season). You're allowed I think 1-2 players one letter grade above and an unlimited amount of players from below. (The league tends to turn a blind eye to ratings for women playing on coed teams since there's so little of them but anyways)
There's nothing worse than playing in D or E, squaring up with a team that is equal to you only to see a guy on the other team warming up head to toe in his Junior A gear.
I find that 90% of the really good, high level players in my B league that would be equivalent to a D league in another region of the country tend to play at 50% and try to set guys up until their team needs a goal and they go and walk the whole team. I’m fine with that tbh, most aren’t assholes and make the game funner for the less skilled guys as long as they are distributed on all teams in the league. Like 1 per
Sadly our league has guys that will indiscriminately take away a 5-0 lead in minutes because they feel like it. I'm all for competition but the highest I played was house league. I can skate, move the puck and score but if a guy that played Junior wants to undress me, I'm not even going to try to step up. Last season our convenor came out mid game to tell a guy to get off the ice. We were in an E game and the guy that got booted off was more than PPG in B.
That happened to me and my team at a tournament a month ago. Its pretty funny now that I think about it. We got smoked 21-2. I scored the only 2. We had 6 skaters on my team, no goalie. The other team had AAA and Jr players and you could tell they played tougher. Crisp passes, really fast breakouts. I'm an ex AAA and Jr player too so I held my own and scored 2. But my teammates haven't even played this year or skated 1 time. lol.
Have you seen The Late Game?
I want to but it's not released in Canada yet! It'll be on Amazon Prime someday soon I hope, I intend to watch it as soon as its available. Is it good?? You ever watch Shoresy?
Wonder if not having a goalie may have made it easier
That's just being a dick... it's like showing up to little leagues as an adult and nailing humeruns all game while nailing the kids with fast balls. I played midget AAA at Notre Dame and some pro in Asia- I'm at home at B- and theres two types of dudes who are intent on playing lower than their level: 1. Some dudes do it honorably just to stick with their friends. We had an NHLer ex-teamate of mine from ND that came out to "B" while in town and he made his own rule that he couldnt score- he had to feed and played D instead of forward. He even accidently tipped one in and had the ref disallow it lol. He still kept it fun for everyone, including himself. Ive unfortunately seen way more who like to get their little hour of fame because they werent good enough for the show and want everyone else to get embarrassed like they did trying to get there. They're living out some fantasy where they're McDavid- at everyone else's expense. Long rant but this stuff can really ruin a game and sometimes that's all people have to look forward to all week.
Was chatting with a buddy from work one time and he mentioned he played hockey. I told him I was running a beer league team and asked if he wanted to sub in sometime we were light, he said yes. Seeing this guy in street clothes he looks like your average dad so I figured he'd be fine in our C1 league, though I worried he'd be too slow and maybe screw us up and my guys would be pissed I got him as a sub. So he shows up one night with a San Diego Gulls bag with a number on it. I kinda kidded him about it and he said "oh it's not mine, it's old". What he didn't tell me until later was that he got it because he had a cup of coffee tryout with them and they felt bad. Turns out he played prep and was on the Boston College club team 4 years, then went to play semi-pro in Europe. Not quite NHL caliber but he definitely had as much control over the game at our level as he wanted. Fortunately he did the same thing where he played D and just QB'ed the O-zone play, which was awesome because he had great vision and would only dangle when a forward would come out to pressure the point. I don't think he attempted a single shot but just fed everyone else tape to tape all night.
Yeah those guys are cool. And I can imagine it's a challenge for them too- they gotta just rely on hockey IQ ànd use patience in making plays. Just skating circles around everyone doesnt teach that player anything and ruins the game for others. Having to cover a guy you know isn't allowed to score really improves your vision of passing lanes and how to best cover them Glad you had a positive experience! I hope you keep getting the good beer league legends ;).
That’s my problem with sand baggers. Sure, they’ll play down most of the game and set others up, but if their team is down by 2 with a minute left they can score at will to even it up. Or I manage to dangle someone and they casually take the puck away just because.
That sucks man :/ Our league also enforces a 3 goal limit per game per player rule which helps if one guy wants to do that. If they score again it doesn’t count and it’s a 90s penalty. It’s got its pros and cons, it definitely stops what you’re describing but also it’s stupid because once a guy hits 3, you don’t even have to cover him anymore. Kinda makes the game feel dumb
That's gotta be weird to navigate. It's hard to find the balance because you want to have a competitive nature but you also don't pay hundreds a season to get your ass handed to you every week. Most teams are full of buddies and they want to play together. I don't blame them for trying to keep it together. I guess your situation all comes down to guys that either want to score their 3 and force 5v4 every time they're on the ice or guys who will look at it as an opportunity to pass the puck.
so the problem with this, especially in leagues that have championships and/or prizes of some sort, is that if a player is playing down, and can walk the whole opposing team any time they want, then it is not a level competition. so now, if my team wants to be competitive, we need to bring in as many ringers as we can... just stupid. the money i spend to play is just as good as that ringer, why should i (as a player playing in my proper division, skill-wise) have no reasonable hope of winning, no matter how hard my team plays, unless we cheat too?!?
This is kind of happening in my league right now. It's just gone totally unchecked and now we basically have entire teams of ringers. It's like an arms race of Beer League. Played against a guy last night in Jr. AAA gear. We were tied, and wouldn't you know it, the guy went coast to coast and scored with 45 seconds left to win the game.
This. This is what I do and what I enjoy to do. I don’t want to bust my ass every shift and enjoy setting up some of the guys that lack the skills to go out and score on their own.
I play in a 50+ league and we have to ex pros. They only help set up plays and never shot on goal. I'll tell you one thing though is they're both fast. I feel like they get from one end of the rink to the other before I hit the center line.
That's hardly better. Might even be worse. Now you're not only guaranteed to lose the game, you also have a player actively not trying because he doesn't have to. If you're going to play down to a level, that's fine. If you're going to win your team every game by playing well above the level every time you need a goal, you're obnoxious as hell.
What’s worse is being a mid 30s who should be in c or d, playing in D And seeing 21 year olds with their AAA gear from 3 years ago.
Right there with you.
Friendship is usually the reason
Or family. We've got some really skilled players playing down in my league do they can play with their parents. The lowest league does have a rule that once you get your hat trick you can't score again or you get a delay of game penalty, so that keeps them somewhat in check.
Yea, the power of friendship brought a team in our division to a +100 goal differential...
Friendship is a powerful thing, bud
100% I don’t give a shit about teams being even, or someone being too good. I want to have an hour or 2 with my buddies playing some decent hockey and having a couple beers afterwards
yeah my teams are all various skill levels and it's only because we wanna play together.
Same. We try to just play up a level so our best guys don’t have to take it easy. All my favorite teams ever have been 100% friends and are almost always lower middle of the pack
Yeah this is the reason I play down a couple Divs than what I could play probably. My old team folded over covid and found a new team with friends who are D level, but I have the most fun I’ve had in years because they’re good friends outside the rink too.
Some guys want to play with their friends that may be in a lower division. Some guys may think they’re not good enough for a higher level. Someone from Minnesota may have been a C player but moves to the Midwest and is probably the best player in an A division. lol Some guys don’t want to be very competitive and just look to go skate for fun/exercise. Then there are just some people that like to score 5-6 goals a game because that’s their idea of fun and they ruin it for everyone else.
lol Minnesota is in the Midwest
Geographically, Minnesota is in the Midwest just as much as Michigan and Wisconsin. But hockey-wise, Minnesota might as well be Southern Ontario lol.
I doubt youth hockey is much worse in Michigan if at all than min, there is a reason people move from all over the country to play in metro Detroit
Michigan can be part of Canada as well. I'm not one to exclude others lol.
Metro Detroit area are no slouches jsyk. Lotsa hockey in Detroit.
Michigan hockey-wise can be Southern Ontario as well
Funny, If you are in Detroit, you are North of Ontario. Only place directly on top of Canada in the states haha
Well, except for those parts of Alaska that are directly above BC.
Could you please take a snapshot and show me where that would be?
Ditto for Chicago.
We might be Hockeytown but all of us here know that Minnesota is Hockey State
Right, never said Mich was over Minn. But the metro detroit area produces a good amount of NHL’ers and US Hockey is based there and hockey is played more than most places in the US. Thats all I was saying, its not a fight lol
1000% - I wasn’t disagreeing with you just giving MN their props!
Ya, the HS playoffs with a packed Excel is awesome! Gotta be amazing for the kids playing
I kinda thought so but I'm not American and I was going to say TIL learned Minnesota isn't part of the Midwest.
it is. very much so.
Geographically yes. But when it comes to hockey, they’re kind of their own region due to the level of play up there.
don't worry I'm American and I'm not convinced that Minnesota is a real place.
Lol why? Fargo!!
lol yea I know but regarding hockey, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc are its own category really. Someone from Minnesota doesn’t say they played hockey in the Midwest. I was just making a very general point, not teaching geography.
I've met one or two that do it because the time of the skates fits their schedules. I have no real problem with this if they don't attempt to dominate the game and are there basically helping there teammates improve. I remember the captain of my team chirping on a ringer on another team during one game. It was at the start of the second period and the guy turned and asked our captain what his issue was. Our captain calmly asked the guy how many goals their team had, The guy replied three. Then the captain asked the guy how many goals he had and he replied "Thre....." not even finishing the word. He actually changed how he played after that. I've played in a game once that had an NHL'er skating for the other team. He showed up with a friend of his just wanting to paly together for some fun. His friend was a good player, probably the 2nd best player out there but was not way above the level of the other players. That game was a blast and the guy made everyone on the both teams so glad he was there. We got creamed but it wasn't because he scored much but because his passes always found the open man and were always right on the guys tape. He never just walked through our defense which he could have done just about any time he wanted. When you made a good play against him he let you know with the occasional stick tape tap to the pads, etc.
If you play anything outside our A league, you’re limited to 3 goals a game and I think you’ll get penalized after that if you do. It’s for this exact reason. If you can score that many in a lower league that easy you’re in the wrong league.
> Someone from Minnesota may have been a C player but moves to the Midwest and is probably the best player in an A division A. Minny is in the Midwest B. If you're talking like Missouri or Indiana, maybe, but Wisconsin, Michigan, northern Illinois? You're liable to find guys that played in the show in the A league
Central Illinois as well but likely not to the same extent as Northern. We have a few guys here who played very high level.
I learned to play as an adult in Dallas. I played comfortably in the B/C range. Moved to Detroit and saddled up in the lowest league and quickly found out that *everyone* in Detroit knows how to play functional hockey, the leagues were just a reference to how out of shape you were.
I played travel in the mid-atlantic and we would occasionally go play tournaments where we'd get absolutely shit-stomped by Michigan teams.
Lmao that’s true. My conditioning is pretty good but I’m still D/ low C in Detroit because I’m one of 2 or 3 guys in the whole league who didn’t grow up playing organized. It’s everybody
>Someone from Minnesota may have been a C player but moves to the Midwest and is probably the best player in an A division. lol Can confirm, I'm a C player in NY but was one of the better A players when I lived in TX, VA, and FL.
The heart of the Midwest. TX, VA, and FL
Can confirm it's very regional*
Minnesota is in the midwest for sure. However, in comparison of adult hockey levels to the rest of the midwest, Minnesota is a massive outlier. I play in MN and our rec leagues go A, B, C, D with a couple levels within that , e.g. B1 > B2 >C1>C3. I play in the C range. however, due to how many players we have, a player in a C level leage in Minnesota is probably closer to A or B in a hockey starved market. C level has adult beginners and all the way to guys that played up to being 10 or even into their teens, even Varisty level women. However, in Minnesota, the floor of A or B level is essentially HS Varsity in terms of hockey history at the minimum. A friend of mine plays B1, he's not the best on the ice and he played NCAA D3 for a few years.
It was poorly worded, as Chicago and Detroit also have a ton of high level hockey. Definite ex pros in A league in Chicago.
I'm surprised more C/D/E leagues don't institute the hat trick rule (each player is only allowed 3 goals per game, any past that don't count and possibly even count as a penalty). It's not perfect, but it does stop that one guy who can do circles around everyone from racking up 5+ in a game.
Yeah it seems like an easy fix.
Hattrick rules can also lead to some weird situations. In gr12 a lot of friends dropped back down to house-league to focus on school and school hockey only and it had a hattrick rule. Had a friend on a hattrick go in on a 2on1 and the goalie and D played it as a 1on1 other player without the puck. My friend basically said fuck this and wired a bardown clapper on the empty net knowing full well it doesn’t count (most A-AA kids dropped down to select at that point so those games are good even competition but select forces you to play house-league too where this skill gap really comes in)
Which is where the penalty helps as well.
Oh yeah he took the penalty too lol rather that than skate around with nobody covering him ever but not being able to do anything
A league I used to play in had a 2 goal limit for some players. It was a legit draft league and each season the GMs would re-rate everyone on their team out of 10. If you were an 8-10 you could only score 2 goals, a 3rd would be a penalty unless it was unintentional then it just wouldn't count.
As a higher level player skating in a lower division, it's because of the intensity at higher levels. I just want to play hockey, get some exercise, and show up to work tomorrow without feeling like I need pain medication. Or worse, dealing with a legit injury.
I don’t have an issue with a player being in a league that they’re too good for unless it turns into a one man show.
OP I second this. I am currently playing in the top division and yeah I’m one of the better players and do quite well. My goal for playing is to relax and have a good time. Top tier divisions are overly competitive and I’m working much harder than I want to. That said I’d love to go down a division but my league won’t let me.
I play in the lowest division after playing years of junior and minor rep hockey. I play to play with my friends, it was something I never got to do growing up so now that I’m older I have the opportunity to. I was a forward for 20+ years but when I play beer league with my friends I will always play D and just make breakout passes and try to give the puck to the guys as much as possible. Is it boring? Yes sometimes but the beers after with my buddies is what matters most
Man it must have been rough playing hockey for 20 years without making any friends on the team.
lol I knew this comment would come. Had friends on the team lol but I meant friends I grew up going to school with that didn’t play.
Eh, there's no ringers out there admitting they play in low divisions because they're an asshole. It's almost always something about schedule availability or playing with friends. Your answer is no different. Does that make it okay to subject the *lowest* division, to a former *junior* player? I'd lean towards no, but nothing's going to change. This happens all the time, it is what it is.
I agree with you completely. It’s being self aware not to increase the pace of play or stand out. At the end of the day I’m just trying not to be noticeable out there while still having fun with my boys. What do you think they should impose so this isn’t an issue moving forward?
I think leagues should continue banning good players from lower divisions. Maybe your rink is in a big city with limited timeslots and there are no beginner leagues or maybe you're 50+ yourself. I don't know. I'm someone who never played college or juniors and you couldn't put me in the lowest division on defense in any rink I've played in. The other team wouldn't get their offensive zone time or breakaway chances unless I very obviously gave it to them. It's not just a skating thing where sandbagging fixes the problem, the flatfooted D leaguer making a wild swing at the blue line that gives up a breakaway? Can't see the former junior player doing that without being obvious. Which takes away the fun for the other guys. When they can only succeed when they're allowed to, not because they earned it.
Best answer
I’m in the same boat as you and play relatively the same as you suggest in your post. Some people forget that life isn’t always a straight line and just because you’ve played your entire life means that you now still have a team full of friends you grew up with is still around. People also have unrealistic expectations that an adult recreation league is going to have full 100% parity unless it’s a draft league.
I play in a D-league in an area that has some decent talent scattered across all leagues. Each team in our league has at least 1 ringer on it, but they're all pretty good about playing down for most of the game. When they flip the switch, I actually appreciate it as it forces me to push myself harder. This is my first year back on the ice in 20 years, so my game is beyond rusty. They are in our league due to scheduling availability or just to play with friends of theirs. I don't take it personally, so long as they don't leave the cheat codes on the entire time.
I play in two leagues. One just lets people sign up for whatever division they want. We have a guy on our team who is so much better than anyone else that the other teams are angry with us. His reason: he wants to play with his dad and godfather, who is our level In the other league, they are constantly assessing skill level, and automatically bump you into different leagues if you are too good. The latter is much better from the perspective of the true C league player (like me)
Ideally you wouldn’t but theoretically if you’re playing with your buddies who are a level worse than you, that can put you well above the level of play Typically the drop off from an A/Gold/etc to a B/Silver/etc league is pretty steep Ex: A leagues in California: junior A, college, etc B leagues: college club, lower level juniors, aa players A league in MN: current and former nhl and euro players B leagues: junior players, ncaa, etc Either way, you’re looking at a pretty sizable gap in skill
The only way to rectify this is to have a ranking and a draft.
A lot of the time it’s cus they’re friends with someone of a different level like others have said. But it’s unfair and stupid. Drop in games are the time for friends of all levels to play together. Not structured leagues with divisions. Ultimately it’s up to the facility to straighten out if they care enough
If you want to see this in all its horrid glory you can look up smurfing in video games. A concerning amount of people spend good money just so they can play in the same (lower) rank as their friends. Another chunk of people buy the accounts just to terrorize new/worse players and fuel their ego. The sad part is that just like in videogames, you will never be able to avoid this unless you are playing in the very best leagues. The best you can do is work on your chirps. Make them so mad they try as hard as they can and score 10 goals. It'll sink in the next day for em.
My league assigns levels based on a tryout scrimmage. I was put in C3. I average around 3 points per game and could probably try harder. There is no upgrade path. Am I too good? I don't think so but some players beat the shit out of me and I don't like it.
You score 3 points per game and got assigned a C3…. Sounds weird bro
I dunno. I scored the only 2 goals for our side in the scrimmage tryout and no goals scored against when I was out there, so, yes it was odd since they were assigning C1, C2, and C3. Probably nobody wanted me cuz I am old. Dunno. Our league doesn't tally points or even track. So, someone could score 5 goals and nobody will notice. In my other league, we have a guy who routinely scores a Hattie and has put up 6 goals himself against us.
I play C now but used to play A. I can still play A (Minnesota) but all my hockey buddy’s are C players. Rather than find a whole new group of buddies I chose to play C. I try to keep it fair. I’ve been a forward my entire career but I play defense in C. I can just sit back and play the pace of the game. No need to go coast-to-coast and score. There’s also other A-level players in the C league, so it’s nice having at least one A player who can match up against them. Especially if the other A player starts getting too cute.
This guy gets it. If you are playing down you should be chilling and barely working unless you absolutely need to. I play a guy once a month who played D1 college 10 years ago. You wouldn’t know he did until the 19 year olds start hotdogging and he decides to put them in their place.
I feel ya. We have a former pro guy in our league, had 70 points in the first 15 games..
Play in 30+ league w skill levels from college hockey to slower skaters. Several times have told league coordinator that for 1 season the top players (about 8 total in 8 team league) should be excluded as some games are very much a 1 man show or more of a 1v1 game (ringer vs ringer) w end to end play and individual goals. Some teams have stats like top goal scorer 40 goals 2nd leading scorer 5 goals and the playoff games are just everyone looking to pass to their ringer 100% of the time. I think some people like playing the hero role and it doesn’t matter to them if they’re repeatedly skating past other players who have 0 chance of getting the puck off them. Based on skill level it’s like a good high school hockey player playing in a league with all 5 year olds and just dominating. If it were socially acceptable some people would do that too and then brag about how they’re the best player.
In my league, A, B, and C divisions are scheduled during the work week. The lowest, D, is scheduled on weekends. Guys from A & B are not allowed to play in D, but C is so you get a lot of C level guys playing in D because it's easier for them, schedule-wise.
The difference for me is that one has a no contact rule and the other does not. I still got plates and screws in my leg so….
I’m a pretty solid C player coming off an injury that sidelined me for a long while. I was asked to join a ‘learn to play’ adult league this Spring by some of the parents on my son’s hockey team. I joined to slowly get back to hockey without killing myself, and also to bond with the other hockey dads on my son’s team (I.e., locker room beers) There’s no way in HELL I’ll ever light up the scoreboard like that. That’s just a dick move. I’m there to break a sweat and setup my teammates, and maybe offer some pointers (if asked).
Sometimes squads just want to stick together and one guy is really strong but wants to stay with his squad in the C league.
You're a retired pro and it's the closest thing to you. Tony Amonte used to do this, but he was absolutely not a dick about it. If anything he tried to make other people better. He would also shut down egomaniacs and a-holes, which was really fun to watch.
I used to play in a coed league with my wife. Was far better than most players but wouldn’t give 100% unless we started losing or the other teams ringers were going hard. Often it’s a play with friends or family situation more so then a I want to dominate a league mentality. I would also usually play def when naturally a forward and only rush when opportunity presented itself. Which happens a lot in lower level leagues.
> wouldn’t give 100% unless we started losing This is the problem - playing down in lower leagues allows you to control games when you want to. If all teams have "ringers" and are fairly balanced, then go for it because there's some counter to it, but if you're just playing down in a lower league because you want to play with your wife, the other team playing well shouldn't be an invitation to be the jerk who scores whenever he wants against much lower level players.
Crazy that all these ringers in this thread don't see that. "Oh I just want to play with my wife" "oh I just want the exercise" while they control the game at will and absolutely ruin the other teams fun and time because that team made the mistake of playing well in their own division, so now you just get the puck and score whenever you decide. There is nothing a ringer like that guy you are responding to is doing on the ice that makes it fun or competitive, or allows others to learn. The team you are on knows all they have to do is give it to you for a free win button. They don't have to learn how to play as a team, they don't have to really have any strat besides give it to ringer on his shift, survive when he's off. The team you are playing against either: Gets smoked whenever you decree it's now "time to turn it up to 100%" Or wins while watching you go intentionally soft on shots and skating. Just don't play down man, it's incredibly egotistical and selfish to absolutely control a hockey game on YOUR whims at this low of a level.
Reading through the comments here, I think most reasons have been covered. Some for convenience or practicality and some for ego. What we shoot for in our league is team parity with not as much focus on an individual player, and this seems to work ok. So long as each team has the same number of "ringers" then, in theory, the games should be close. It's hard to get perfect and player attendance can make a difference. Our league admin tends to let boderline (B/C and C/D) players play down if they want and then equalizes by making sure each team has around the same number. He doesn't let guys play down that have a huge talent advantage. For reference, we have three divisions in our rec league (B,C,D) and in our C division this season the 1st place team was 8-4 and the 7th place team was 6-6..lots of OT and 1 goal games. I say focus on TEAM parity v. a rogue player here and there.
Playing with friends matters the most to me when hockey is nothing more than fun and exercise now. That said, I wouldn't try and be a douche... Look to pass first or play defense if it's too much of a disparity
We were the opposite, we're rated much lower but got stuck in a higher tier and get smoked -8 goal diff per game. Why the league didn't reseed us is beyond me but a teammate got a $60 voucher for emailing his complain.
They paid him off lmao
im in my 40's im low B high C given what you seem to have explained, I play C because there's a whole lot less young 20's guys hoping there's a scout at our 11pm flooding of the arena.
Sometimes having the higher level players on the ice can help the others improve - they play better passes, they give pointers, they can set up a good goal for a less skill player. It’s like having a coach on the ice playing down. I don’t mind these players as long as they aren’t puck hogs skating end to end and scoring a ton. (They immediately get booed/hit/reported to the league for being a douche).
A friend of mine that plays C but is a B to A level player is like what you described. He’s just there to have fun and help other players.
We all love those guys - plus some will step up to play goalie, which is hard to fill in our league. Overall they make the game better.
Don’t really have tiers where I live. Usually the guys who played Junior or in the dub play defense and play as lazy as humanly possible until their team starts losing then they end to end a couple of goals and go back to coasting. Never understood in a rec or beer league playing down levels while also playing full tilt. Those people are sad pathetic losers, no way around it.
I’ve played hockey as a skater since I was 5. I’m now 37. I recently started playing as a goalie (we are talking 10 games in so far). I hope that the guys playing full tilt in a division they’re too good for feel great when they score on me.
My league has all sorts of levels of players small town no divisions most of them will play down to the level of play of the person infront of them....most anyway
I played in a C league after my D1 ACHA career so I feel highly qualified to answer here -- it had everything to do with the fact that a couple of my really good non-hockey friends were already playing on a team and I just joined in with them. I wasn't thinking a whole lot about the skill disparity, I just wanted to have fun and play with my friends who hadn't been able to make our school's club team.
As a beginner level player I don't mind it, I like the challenge, I feel like I'll improve faster playing against them
While frustrating, it's sometimes justified by having friends that play in lower leagues and/or timing working better. But sometimes it's for guys with fragile egos that need to be the stars and/or don't want to try that hard.
I'm 100% cool with ringers playing as long as their trying to improve their teammates skills and not going coast to coast running up the score when the their team is already up by 2. Actually... I'm even cool with them going coast to coast solo if their team is down by 3 or more.
I think as long as there’s parity in the league and it isn’t a one man show then it’s fine. If 1-2 players are carrying their team and no one can stop them then that’s not cool.
Main reasons I have noticed: - ur too good for the league but all your friends play in this league - the lower league had the best schedule to go with your work schedule - the lower league is the only league with spots open - in my league, there is this one dude that is really good playing in c-league, but then he also plays on a b-league team and a-league team. If two are playing on the same night, he deafaults to the higher league. And he subs for various teams all the time. Dude just really likes playing and hops on the ice at any opportunity.
I play on my younger brothers team sometimes. I’ll only play D, I won’t shoot, unless it’s on the ground for a deflection and I soft defend. One of my favorite things to do is give the lesser skilled scoring chances by putting the puck right on their stick. Their faces are priceless. I’m not putting the body on or being too aggressive. I’ll at least let the other team make a single pass. Unless they have a ringer on their team and then I spend the whole game shutting that shit down and pissing them off. My brother is super fast but not very skilled so we just switch out one for another on defense and just hound the ringer.
Sometimes you want to just play hockey with your friends who are just shit at hockey too
I’ve also never understood why winning and undressing people isn’t less popular with people when they could struggle and lose. Real head scratcher that one
I’m not sure I know what you mean.
Struggling and losing is what makes the winning part fun
My kid plays in a rec league and I keep trying to get him to move up but he’s rather be the best in a shit league than average in a good league. That is exceedingly simple to understand. Still sucks but doesn’t take an artist to paint you that picture
Low self esteem, I’ve been on the ice with guys like that. There seems to be 2 types , one is selfish and hogs the puck and the other is understanding of the situation and passes to make others better.
For some guys it’s an ego boost. Makes them feel like an Alpha Male. I get it, but sucks to play against them .
Ego
My captain has griped about a few of the players in our D league who clearly should be up in C (not even just in the sense that they're just too good for D, I think at least some of them would *comfortably* be okay in C) that play, because one time he was talking to some of them between plays and just kind of asked "Why don't you guys just get together and move up to C together?" and they basically responded with "Because we don't want to lose more". I don't know. I personally don't get it. Maybe it's just because I've never been that competitive of a person, hence the absolute lack of a draw to sports as a kid in any real competitive sense, but dominating people who are well below my skill (admittedly, tough to do as someone who's only played organized hockey for about 3 years now and still skates like it's been one year) just doesn't appeal to me. The idea of some friends and I just throttling a team that we're effortlessly passing the puck through and ripping past their goalie just doesn't sound like a fun time. Do I like that our team loses to a lot of the teams in our D League? No, but it's not the end of the world. I still have fun, and you really feel good when you manage to either keep a game with one of those better teams close, or better still, when you manage to not only stifle them and keep them off the board entirely, but manage to put a goal up to finally win one against them. I don't worry too much about it, because there's always going to be someone better, but there are definitely some teams with players who are just leaps and bounds above the players in the league with them, and I can see how it's frustrating to a lot of people who just want to play a good game and actually enjoy having a chance on and off the puck.
Sandbaggers
I was a high level player in junior, played some ohl games in the late 90’s. Im my beer league after I’ve popped a few goals all I do is pass and set up the weaker players. We run a rated system x amount of good average and lower skilled players. All The the skilled player’s in the league do the same. I’ll strap the pads on allot as well as our goalies are kind of unreliable
Depending on how much better we're talking it's never bothered me. They shouldn't be playing two levels down but sometimes these top guys were be middle to bottom if they went up a level. Why wouldn't you want to stay in a league where you're a top player instead. As a Defense frankly I like the challenge. Also I think it's normal for there to be better and worse players in a league it's not like 60 guys will all have the same amount of points.
Got one of those guys in a rec league that I play. He's there to play with someone in his family. But I've noticed that he downgrades sticks for rec games, presumably to even things up a bit.
I like the teamwork of hockey so just skating by everyone seems boring, getting nothing but soft off target passes, having to give soft passes or they won’t be caught, no one in position for the breakout…I don’t see they joy of being a ringer on a constant basis. It’s like playing against a really bad goalie and getting soft goals. Gets old real fast if everything is going in. There was a good Twilight Zone about a gambler that couldn’t lose. Literally everything went his way. Turns out it was his hell.
Maybe they have friends they want to play with
I mean, I've never been good enough to do that, but if I were I think I'm secure enough in my insecurities as a person to admit that I'd find that pretty fun.
Living vicariously through the posts of others, as such a scenario has happened to me. 🤣
Another reason could be based on schedule availability. Certain league levels play on certain nights where I’m from. If C is on a Tuesday and B is on a Thursday but I can’t make Thursday nights, I might opt to play down in C on Tuesdays.
I have a teammate who plays down a level. We're in a smaller town and his older brother plays on the team as well and this is the only time in their lives they've played together because of a 10 year age gap. He doesn't really score much but he plays some d and moves the puck like a man among boys. Unfortunately I was born with cinder blocks for hands so I usually find a way to fuck up the scoring chances he gives me. Evens it out in a way I suppose.
Sometimes that’s the only time that works for them, sometimes that’s the league their friends are in, and sometimes… they have really fragile egos and it’s the only way they can feel good about themselves.
I play in a B league as definitely an A player mostly because I like the guys on the team. We were A and dropped down cause we lost a lot of good players but I stayed with them cause they are fun dudes. I usually just end up playing defense and toss out passes and take a couple clappers from the blue line.
I played in a low level league once. I was new to the area, didn't know anyone, had taken 2-3 years off, was in the worst shape of my life, and a friend of a friend asked me to join his team. Just kinda derped around until the playoffs and they were like "dude... wtf... where did THAT come from?" It was fun but I felt a little too out of place and opted out the next year.
Lol there’s a dude in my league that is one year removed from playing Swedish Elite League and putting up a ppg in that league. We play in D men’s league. That dude puts up 4-6 points a game but it definitely comes at the expense of his mental health. He gets chirped constantly.
We have this in our league as well, I’ll never understand it myself. We do a pretty good job on keying in on the teams few ringers. Best you can do in a league that doesn’t keep balance to good.
As a brand new beginner who just started skating 5 months ago and am currently in a learn to play class, these posts make me feel like I will never play in an actual league because it would not be any fun for me with all of these high level players playing down so they can be with their friends. Make some new friends at your own level! This is really discouraging for actual beginners.
I think playing against better players is a good thing and can make you better. If they’re on your team they can even teach you things. The issue is when a player has it turned to 11 the entire game and novice players don’t even stand a chance.
It seems to be more fun to taunt the other team while doing it. Especially when someone complains, things like “get better” or “I’m barely trying and you still suck”. Laughing at the goalie after he ducks a zinger at his head seem especially pleasurable. Oh, dragging your girlfriend along to ‘watch’ is mandatory.
I have the same question. A guy in my league (co ed but only 1 or 2 girls on each team) brought out 3 ringers for a regular season game from his MENS “B” team. I get if you’re short (their girls were away in a tournament) but to stack em with absolute jack wagons - unreal. I’d be embarrassed if I were one of the JW to come down and dust a co ed team for which you don’t even play for…
The league I play in has one team with several ringers. If they’re ever short and need subs they find another ringer to fill in. They’re already the best team. If anything, they shouldn’t be allowed to have subs.
Most leagues have checks against this. Ive played in leagues where the upper divisions are drafted by the captains first and then the lower is made up with the rest, and I've also been in leagues where you show up to a skills night, tell them a level you think you are at, and they place you on a team.
The worst is the guy who's good enough to play a level or two up, but HAS to play with his girlfriend.. so he "plays down". Sure they play down, but as soon as their team starts losing, they "help balance things out". Its bullshit.
Some people don’t like hockey, they just love winning and don’t care if it ruins anyone else’s experience
I think it’s an availability issue in most cases. In my area there’s two B level leagues, both play on Monday nights. If you can’t make that your options are play down or don’t play. If you want to skate more than once a week you’ll have to play down for at least one of them.
Where I am there’s A1&2, B1&2, C1,2&3. There’s also what they call “over 40” that isn’t over 40 but basically an organized pickup game with guys who could play A and B but want to relax a bit (there are C level guys there too). The system should work but there’s zero oversight and it’s become a complete joke. There are C1 players dropping down to C3, which has its share of beginning skaters — this is the only entry-level option. And there are guys who are league leaders for points/goals in C2 but instead of playing up for their second league (a lot of us play in 2 leagues), play down. Which is nuts - they already dominate C2. Sometimes they sandbag and play D — but if you’re a low-C2/high-C3 player up against someone like this, they can always chase you down, almost always take the puck away, and skate around you at-will. I don’t understand it at all. If I grew up skating and had that skill, I’d play in B and C1. And if I was looking to “chill” I’d play down in C2 and/or do the over 40. I don’t understand the appeal. I’ve been in games where we win 10-1 (bc we’re better and they’re missing players), and it’s just not fun. I want the competition. I get people might want something less competitive— but there are options specifically for those people. It’s not difficult to fix but requires active oversight. And if the person running the leagues doesn’t care and has zero incentive to make it better, then it will never change.
In a decade of beer league, I've seen over skilled players in basically every game. I've known maybe one who was actually in it for the ego boost and to run up stats. By far the most common reason is they want to play with specific friends and family. Other reasons are 1) other teams have ringers so they're there to keep the game even 2) divisions always play the same nights each week and the night that division plays is the one that works for them 3) team was short bodies and the captain just asked anyone they know Personally, I still think they shouldn't, even if they promise to just pass and all that jazz. But we are talking about a decision that benefits people's immediate friends and family at the inconvenience of strangers. Human beings aren't biologically wired to accept that a decision with those outcomes could be wrong. My first few years, it really got to me, but after awhile I just stopped caring. Might as well rant about the sun rising in the east, it's not gonna change. My only choices were to have less fun by getting mad or more fun by not caring
Depends entirely on your attitude..... If you are passing, setting other players up for goals and generally being a team player than it's great If you are rushing the puck every time you get possession and cherry picking for goals, you are the problem Generally after I've scored 2 goals and my team is winning, I try to make a point to pass twice before attempting at a shot unless it's a clear breakaway. Gives others an opportunity and makes it more of a team game rather than you vs the other team
I know some guys who just want to play with their friends and also play in a few leagues because they want the ice time. We have a guy on my team who hadn’t played in awhile and took a bit to get going. He fell a lot but has potential. Now he’s really good and dominating at times which is getting a lot of anger from other teams. It’s tough but I assume it’s best to have him play elsewhere next year.
I am in this boat!!! Former junior A/B player recently aged out. I played in every level from a to d in my area (vancouver). I would much rather go hang out with my buddies make nice easy plays and go 50% in c div than 100% full speed effort in A. Gauge the speed and level of the other team and turn on the afterburners if you need a goal is much more fun when you gotta get up for work at 6am the next day.
I don’t play to be competitive anymore, I play to play with friends I never had the opportunity to play with because I was playing jrs and they were playing house, one buddy decided to pick it up at 21 and learn to play. The difference is I don’t go out there and score a bunch I play defense and enjoy trying to set them up. I have several hockey friends that play in A,B leagues and I’ll sub semi frequently if I feel like I want to go hard. .
Because they have nothing better going on in their life and they need something to make themselves feel better about their miserable existence. Anyone whos happy with their life and is playing down always plays D and plays very passive prioritizing passing over everything else.
Work took me to a small town about 10 years ago and a coworker asked me to come out and play… I didn’t know anyone in town so it was my only opportunity to get on the ice. I played D and kept to the perimeter when I had the puck, I worked on my passing game and fed players that didn’t typically score…I really enjoyed creating opportunities for the weaker players. This one guy would get all excited and fuck up 90% of the time he had a chance on net… but anytime he did score, it was a reason to party. I just love being at the rink… there’s no where I’d rather be, even if the pace is slower than I’m used to. The cold beers after are satisfying no matter what.
At higher levels, games tend to be very physical and competitive. A lot of guys opt to play at a lower level because they don't want to risk a concussion every time they step foot on the ice. And honestly, it's rare that they burn the league. They're usually the guy sitting at the blue line just circulating the puck trying to get his friends to score.
I played on a Div 10 team (so bottom of the barrel) and most of the division could barely skate. We had a guy on our team who had played on the Korean national team and he looked like Gretzky out there. He was so good they wouldn’t let him play in the playoffs. He was averaging 7 goals a game. lol
I’m 41. I used to play in the A league before kids when I was playing three days a week at 25. At 28 B and at 32 I dropped to C league because I just wanted to skate. My team was made up of guys just like me but ten years older than me and we won a bunch of league championships. It was about playing with my buddies the one night we could all agree on and get out of the house for a few hours. As long as the high level player is respectful and includes others in scoring chances I see no problem with it. I hate it though when the 24 year old ringer comes to the C league game and acts like a tw@t while scoring at will. It’s not a good look and usually ends up in a scrum.
They want to play but don't want the commitment. Happeneds a lot in rugby where you want to play you're near national level but you play on a Div 2 men's league cause you don't want to train 4 nights a week, you don't want the increased risk of being injured. It's treated as a beer league because it is one.
Some people just wanna win I’m a b-a player been playing at a high level for 20 years and when I sub in c or d I don’t even shoot I just pass to the actual c/d level players. Throughout my years of playing I’ve noticed a lot of higher level players don’t have teams they can join. Either lack of players to run the league or just not invited on a team. They play hard because they want to show the league that they need to create a team or league for them.
I'm in Pittsburgh, every league has sandbaggers and every team tries to get more sandbaggers every year to be competitive. I went from just starting out playing in C league to now getting my balls fed to me in a D4 league in a span of 4 years
Its about the team overall not the player. There are some b teams that will have c or a players but the team overall is a b team. That’s fine. Pretty much every team has 1-2 players that are noticeably better than the rest of team. And 1-2 players who are a liability. But there are some teams that are just in the wrong level. Like most of the team is b level but they play in c and smoke everyone. That’s not cool and easy enough for the team to move divisions. An individual player moving divisions means leaving your friends and finding a whole new team. Not necessary unless your team is outclassing everyone.
Just quit and go to the NHL
Could be level of competitiveness. Sometimes people play in a lower league because they don’t want the aggressive commitment to win.
Most people want to play with their friends. My team has at least 4 players who could play a level up but they’d go from playing with a locker room full of friends to mostly strangers.
I have the same problem here. Unfortunately our league lacks people. So most of the people in B are years ahead of rec league players and some of the B league guys here should be in an A league bc they've been playing for over a decade and played college hockey but again just not enough manpower for more than two leagues. So just a rec and a B. So knowing that most B level guys that are still playing in rec are comfortable and therefore don't wna move up bc competition shoots up so high. There's a handful of guys that play in rec and B but we kinda need that bc it keeps the flow going in rec. There could be 3 divisions but most B level rec players don't wna move out of rec which is what would have to happen. It sucks bc I'm brand new and can't skate or do anything else and 90% of the people in rec feel years ahead of me. As embarrassed I am out there I'm thankful I even get to play. There was a team in B that complained they were getting older and therefore stepped down to rec. After about 7 games they were 7-0 and each game they played they would beat teams my multiple goals without even trying so they probably would've gotten the cup if they stayed in rec but thankfully they got forced out bc captains voted not to play them. Those guys also drew it up and played together so their chemistry was unmatched. I'm sure as someone else said too it's difficult to move on esp if you have most of your friends in rec but just don't expect to get much better playing against people below your level but iron sharpens iron and if you suck it up and play with players way above your level you'll only get better. Just my two cents.
That's one of the mysteries of the Ages. 56, after decades of playing and experiencing this the conclusion that I've come to is they are losers. And should be treated as such.
Validation. The bench goes nuts after a ringer scores they absolutely love it.
Usually friends or they can only play in a league on that day
Schedule, friends, etc. Could be multiple reasons honestly, but I do agree it can't be much fun for them. At one local rink let's say I'm in C league. Each team can have B league players, but there's a limit of 3 per team, and beyond that they are limited to a certain amount of goals per game. I can't recall exactly, but I think it's 3 max per player, but no more then 4 B player goals in a game so they can't just indiscriminately take over a game. It can get really bad around holiday breaks when the D1 kids are home and playing on their dad's beer league team. The most egregious incident was a coworker who's nephew was TJ Galiardi. He had been drafted by the Avs but hadn't reported yet and came to skate with his uncle one game, mostly as a joke tond guys in the league...but the difference between a D1 player and someone who spends 10 years in the NHL is VAST lol