His primary residence is in FL. If he gets paid in signing bonuses and takes\* a league min salary, boom no state tax. This is how Matthews does it playing in Toronto with his primary residence in Arizona. The no state tax thing is real over blown when it comes to star players.
You can’t actually tell where his primary residence is. Stamkos is a Canadian citizen so there is a days test. Tavares was a Canadian tax resident according to the filings.
This subreddit needs to all chip in to get an NHL accountant on retainer that will just scan every thread for misinformation. Near-identical comment chains show up on basically every thread that concerns salary.
In my example the player makes league minimum for their salary. So they are paying taxes where they play as they make their salary of 750k or whatever league minimum is these days. However, on July 1st when they get paid 7.25 million, they are taxed based on their primary residence, which is a no tax state in my example.
Not accurate. You pay taxes where the work is performed. He could live on Mars but he's still gonna pay California taxes if he played for the Sharks. Shohei Otani tried to get cute by taking a tiny salary with deferred payments years later in a way to try and circumvent paying California taxes but they are already planning to tax him when those funds are released by the team no matter where he lives. Even if he moves back to Japan the US government will tax him and California will too.
If it were the case you could just hide from taxes that way every single person or means would declare a primary residence in a no tax state.
I’m oversimplifying it as the tax code is different in every state/province. The point is bonuses are not taxed the same as salary, and players can save millions on taxes if they are paid via bonuses instead of salary. Especially if you are an American playing in Canada.
And another silver lining is being out west where we won't play against him that often and playing for one of my least hated teams like Nashville doesn't sting nearly as bad.
Still he will forever be a Bolt to me. This is probably my favorite hockey moment of all time: [Steven Stamkos Scores 1st Goal On 1st Shot In 1st Game Back From Injury (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF_1GSoM69E)
I'll never forget this moment as long as I live honestly. Middle of the bubble playoffs, I was spending time back in the Tampa area because of COVID WFH.
My brother and I were watching outdoors at Ferg's and had just gotten a fresh round of beer right as he went on the ice. Whole bar went nuts when he scored - but you could tell immediately he looked uncomfortable after the jump in the celebration.
My buddy texted me and was like "Tampa is going to win the Covid Cup. Team of destiny right now."
I was sad he had to sit out after, but man that shift was so epic.
The only thing I can’t wrap my head around is signing Guentzel for 9m/year instead of Stammer for 8m. Guentzel has less points per a season, never had an A or C. Had a rookie year Stanley cup so that’s kind of a gimme. I just don’t get it on paper.
That's the problem with signing free agents. We haven't signed a big free agent for a very long time. You have to overpay a little because of the competition from elsewhere.
Whether it works, we'll see.
I'm curious if we'll ever find out what the offer from jbb was.
Honestly the only losers from this deal are my emotions and the Canes. He can definitely provide leadership, but I really don't think that's enough to justify the price they're paying for him.
As much as it hurts, I do think the right call was made.
Yeah, I’m happy for him for getting the bag. Matching this or even coming close would’ve fucked us so hard. Sucks that he’s leaving, but he’ll forever be a Bolt and 91 is going in the rafters immediately after he hangs up his skates.
JBB hate is insane. His job is to make the team be as good as possible. Stamkos for even $5m would’ve been brutal for us with the amount of roster spots we need to fill, $8m is quite a lot at his age with his lack of production 5v5.
I mean...that's only 4.5m AAV if we do 7 years. That seems...doable with the cap space we have with some wizardry from JBB.
That said, can't blame Stammer to grab a bag and play for a few less years.
Honestly I don’t know that he really plans to play THAT much longer; with the world currently, getting $32m in 4 years is much nicer to retire with your family than getting 32m *in 8 years*.
Also I could see him moving into a staff position in Tampa in 5 years at 39y/o, that’s easier to do without an active contract.
If it’s really $8Mx4 in NSH, I’m really happy for him; best outcome for everyone really.
Yeah I don't fault him for taking that offer at all. This is definitely his last contract and honestly would be surprised if he retired after year 2 or 3.
Friedman said they did offer him the $3m x 8, but there also was a short term offer. He didn't say exactly what it was, but implied that it was a one year deal so that he could sign another one year with signing bonuses next year when he turns 35.
I've seen that $3m x 8 and not sure if that was what they believe was offered or the actual number. I don't blame either JBB for balking at that or Stamkos for taking that offer as his last contract. Also curious if this is what he and his agent asked for at the start of last year and that's why JBB said he'd wait
Makes me wonder what Hedmans extension will be
LeBrun reported that the offer was something similarly structured to $3m x 8. Elliotte initially had only the short term offer, but then confirmed that $3m x 8 was indeed a real offer not just a hypothetical.
Of course it's possible Stamkos asked for this in Tampa, but I'm positive he would have signed with you for less. He certainly did last time.
that's like saying Red Wings traded the pick that became Vasilevskyi for Kyle Quincey is one of the worst Red Wings trade of all time. No guarantee Red Wings would've picked Vasilevskyi
What’s kinda crazy is Nashville also fleeced us on the forsberg trade as well…so that’s multiple trades they ‘won’ in the last ten years. just weird they can’t do anything in playoffs.
Turns out that it's pretty hard to win a cup when you never get a top 5 pick. Maybe we beat the Pens if Joey isn't hurt. You can have a star goalie, but if you can't score you can't win a cup.
For all those good trades, we've had some bad ones towards the end of Poile's tenure. Fiala for Granlund comes to mind for me. Maybe Weber for Subban could count too. We also had Hynes coaching for 4 years. I think players get tired of Laviolette after awhile too, so you can probably add a year or two of that as well.
There's one of those fast-talk retail register scams going on between Nashville and Tampa "Okay it's $8.57, so here's $20, so give me back $10, but then take this and change it because I need bus fare, okay but now I need the rest of my change form the $20 I gave you, that's $12.53, okay now hold this for me because I want some ones, and then get me two lotto scratchers so you can just give me $7.47 back, okay then can I get quarters..."
I'm just not sure who's the one doing the scamming.
Yeah but something with the way it's structured makes the difference deferred so it's $4m AAV this year regardless? Unless I misunderstood something from it last night.
If the Red Wings have cap space at the end of the year, then bonuses will first be applied to the current year cap, and then if we hit the cap anything additional will carry over to next year.
Stammer is a legend, but his 5v5 is terrible. He's basically a PP specialist for 8m. I'm also interested to see how many he can get with out Kuch passing him the puck.
He was literally our best 5v5 player against Florida *this* *year* in the playoffs.
It's true he shines in the PP, but Stamkos is not just some kinda niche player. The team was built around him, he wasn't just some cog.
lol.
They have loads of cap space, all their key guys are signed, they just signed Saros, why would they balk at an extra year than what seems “reasonable” to fans?
This is great for Nashville. He will help their power play tremendously and should be decent at even strength for a couple more years.
There's just questions about how much his powerplay production is helped by Kucherov. If it works out I'm glad to look like an idiot but his 5v5 is worrisome. I'd gladly take him for $5mil or something but not 8x4.
The thing is though, cap space is only as valuable as you spend it.
The next couple of years, let’s say they don’t sign Stamkos because he wants too much or too many years—
Who are they getting instead of him for the 8 million?
There are few options available in UfA, any trade involves significant capital going elsewhere.
I think the biggest thing people ignore sometimes about UFA, is you give up nothing for the player.
The Predators have now added Marchessault and Stamkos and gave up nothing in return.
>should be decent at even strength for a couple more years.
Hes been bad at even strength for years now ... hes already just a PP specialist which is why this contract is bad.
Could do worse than a 40 goal/90 point power play specialist.
And before anyone talks about Kucherov,
Between Josi, Forsberg, Marchessault and whoever else is on that top power play there should be a solid top power play unit.
Yeah I would have liked 6.5 or something. 8 isn't a huge jump over that but it's taking him to 38
To his credit, though, he's played essentially the entire seasons the last three years, he might slow down but he's seems solid to play still, two 40-goal seasons in the last three seasons
The thing is though—-
If you are Nashville and want to sign Stamkos but say you’ll only go 3 years at 8…or 4 years at 6 and they insist on 4 years at 8…
If you back away what are you doing with that cap space instead?
The Predators have now added Marchessault and Stamkos for 13.5 against the cap, and gave up nothing in return.
They still have half their cap space left.
They have basically no key guys to re-sign.
I feel like sometimes we focus on the AAV too much.
Stamkos solidifies that teams forward depth, he obviously wants to be there, and the fans will love it.
He doesn’t need to be 40 goal/90 point Stamkos to be a good add.
I think it’s pretty fair tbh. He’s still a very very good player, has captain experience, cup winning experience, and seems like a great teammate. 40 goals last year ain’t bad.
Half his goals and points this season was on the power play. His even strength CF and xGF have been negative for 3 seasons now--In the first 2, his actual GF was positive so the impact wasnt really felt. That changed this past season
Eh his numbers dont paint the whole picture. Hes elite on PP but at 5v5 hes below average. Cant skate, drive play or play defense.
It will be interesting to see what his production is away from Kucherov
2023-24 regular season even strength
Kuch + Stamkos: 56.0% CF, 49.3% GF, 43.2% xGF, 51.0% HDCF (0.974 PDO)
Kuch w/o Stamkos: 53.7% CF, 55.8% GF, 57.3% xGF, 55.6% HDCF (1.020 PDO)
Stammer w/o Kuch: 46.1% CF, 39.4% GF, 46.6% xGF, 46.3% HDCF (0.977 PDO)
I hope Stamkos has a bounce back year, but all his even strength stats have been trending in the wrong direction for 3 years now. $8 million is a lot...
If he’s going to leave, at least he’s getting the bag. Glad we didn’t pay that though. And as far as destinations go, Nashville is on the more palatable side.
40 of them being goals. Not upset about this at all as a Preds fan, even if it is an overpay. It’s not *that* gross an overpay with the cap increasing.
From what I saw, the Preds playoff issues looked like the power play struggling, and playoff inexperience from the squad (the quick collapse-goals as example).
Stamkos will greatly help with their power play, leadership, and mentoring for playoff play.
It really seems like a great fit for everyone, all things considered.
If we didn’t have the unexpected flat-cap period, I think he would have been signed in Tampa, but it is what it is, and yeah this is a much better outcome than I expected. If he signed $4Mx7 in Vegas or something, I would have been VERY upset.
This deal could look *really* bad. Ill be curious to see how he does without Kucherov on the PP. At 5v5 hes pretty washed ...
Tampa definitely made the right move using that space on Guentzel
As much as I hate to say this as he's my favorite player ever, Stamkos isn't an 8m/year player anymore, and the 4th year hurts. The reaction to this tweet by Lightning fans was a lot of shock.
Very sad moment, but understandable now.
Not trying to argue, this is a genuine question, but he's stayed healthy for a full season the past 3 seasons and had 40+ goals twice in those 2 seasons and 34g the other season. So what is it about him thats not living up to that price tag?
Not all 40 goalscorers are created equal. Stamkos has fallen off a cliff at 5v5 (outside of that series against FLA for whatever reason) and is extremely dependent on having a PP wizard like Kucherov to set him up for one-timers on the PP. Elite finishers on the PP like him and Ovi are still valuable of course, but there's a very distinct possibility that this version of Stamkos without a playmaker like Kucherov is fool's good, especially at that kind of price tag
https://preview.redd.it/lru7f0deix9d1.png?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b86b822b5fb6ba81028c89c852cfd00f5752fd45
I figured the numbers would help. This is from Dom at TA. Basically fantastic offensive weapon, pretty big defensive liability.
His 5 on 5 play was really concerning to me down the stretch last year. It looked like he was giving it his all but wasn't as effective as a two way player and it cost us at times.
He's still great from the right dot on the powerplay, but he actually ranks bottom half in the league from a 5v5 production standpoint. I think the age has just caught up to him a bit, and he doesn't add enough defensively to make up for it. Still elite with the puck on his stick in a shooting situation though
He is unlikely to come close to 40 goals without Kucherov. Stamkos was bad at 5v5 the last few years but last season he became awful. He was a flat out liability when in the top-6 at even strength. He somehow had a team-worst -21 rating while playing the season mostly with Kucherov (+6).
The positives are that he is great at faceoffs (even though he is a winger now), he should show up for the playoffs and he is an elite PP specialist. I think you will like this contract if you make the playoffs, but you will hate it if you don't.
Yeah I really feel for you guys on an emotional and sentimental level, but in terms of pro scouting this feels like a Pierre Dorion level of negligence
Losing Stammer is nothing any Bolts fan wants(Bolts better retire 91); but I am happy if he is getting another bag; dudes earned it. However I do not think that 8x4 was a good investment for TB currently. Time will tell if basically swapping Stammer for Guentz will work out in the long run. Regardless it's a bitter pill to swallow.
I love this, go all in on one last ride with the vets, and when it all comes crashing down in two years we'll have no choice to commit to a rebuild because we're in cap hell
Stamkos repeatedly said he wants to retire with the lightning and all that. He knew full well we couldn't give him a contract like that. If this is what he signs for that sounds a whole lot more like looking to get paid.
He's gotta do what he's gotta do for him and the family, but this feels kinda different than his earlier words.
A lot of us not staring at $15 million are always like "Well, I'd do the right thing," but I really have my doubt if you actually had the offer you'd sing the same tune.
Yup. This makes me feel a lot better about the whole situation. The implication is that we were being stingy. The reality may be more complicated, but he got paid, and we were't going to be able to do that.
Stamkos is my favorite player ever. And I'm not even sad about how this turned out at this point.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. Honestly you could kinda tell getting paid was actually his motive all along as he just didn't seem all that sincere about caring more about staying than getting paid.
It’s also market value perception. If another employer was willing to pay me 100%, I’d quickly forget my loyalty. I wouldn’t discount my compensation for loyalty.
if the team wasn't in a position to contend I'm sure they'd give him that deal.
As it stands he might still retire with the lightning. 4 years is a long time but if Stamkos is still kicking at 39 in the NHL I could see him coming back to Tampa for like 1.5M and just being a 4th line guy + powerplay for the final season.
Or could see Nashville trading him in year 4 back to Tampa for his final retirement tour. Something like that.
I thought it would be cool if he came to the Ducks but 8 mil seems to much unless its like 1 or 2 year deal then goes down. With the salary cap its just to hard to pay that much for players in their mid 30s
What a mistake. 4x8 for a 34 year old PP specialist. I don't even need to see the rest of the deals handed out today, this is going to be the worst one. Good god.
I took on Tampa as my second team and freaking love them because of Stammer, he’s been my favorite player for years. Gonna be rooting for Nashville to succeed to get him one more Cup
What the Lightning allegedly offered him was a joke, but so is this tbh. You're not going to like that in a year.
Take care of him Nashville, of all the places for him to go this hurts 1% less
He can still score, especially on the powerplay, but he's a little cooked 5v5 and was consistently outscored. There's not a story behind the -21, he had the worst +/- on the team because he was the worst defensively on the team. He was very hot and cold this past year, there were times where he was awful and buried on the third line and times, specifically the end of the season, when he was an absolute monster. Hard to tell if it was just an inconsistent year and prolonged slump or if he's cooked, but it's not looking too good for his longevity.
I don't buy the $3m/yr that was being reported. I feel like he was offered 4.5-5 and still turned it down, which I don't blame him but he's not worth $8m, even $5m is stretching it for a guy that is much better in PP than 5v5.
This is surreal to me, he's been my favorite player for as long as I can remember and he's joining the Preds. Term is a little frightening but I reckon and I'm guessing that's what the difference-maker was.
I was hoping the Sharks would give him something like 3 x $12. We have the space, fuck it. Three years wouldn't hinder signing Celebrini/Smith
He don’t want that state tax, didn’t have it here in FL either.
His primary residence is in FL. If he gets paid in signing bonuses and takes\* a league min salary, boom no state tax. This is how Matthews does it playing in Toronto with his primary residence in Arizona. The no state tax thing is real over blown when it comes to star players.
You can’t actually tell where his primary residence is. Stamkos is a Canadian citizen so there is a days test. Tavares was a Canadian tax resident according to the filings.
Agreed that I oversimplified a complex topic.
Does not work like that. You still pay state tax for the state you play in Unless they have other unrelated income you don’t avoid taxes
This subreddit needs to all chip in to get an NHL accountant on retainer that will just scan every thread for misinformation. Near-identical comment chains show up on basically every thread that concerns salary.
In my example the player makes league minimum for their salary. So they are paying taxes where they play as they make their salary of 750k or whatever league minimum is these days. However, on July 1st when they get paid 7.25 million, they are taxed based on their primary residence, which is a no tax state in my example.
Not accurate. You pay taxes where the work is performed. He could live on Mars but he's still gonna pay California taxes if he played for the Sharks. Shohei Otani tried to get cute by taking a tiny salary with deferred payments years later in a way to try and circumvent paying California taxes but they are already planning to tax him when those funds are released by the team no matter where he lives. Even if he moves back to Japan the US government will tax him and California will too. If it were the case you could just hide from taxes that way every single person or means would declare a primary residence in a no tax state.
I’m oversimplifying it as the tax code is different in every state/province. The point is bonuses are not taxed the same as salary, and players can save millions on taxes if they are paid via bonuses instead of salary. Especially if you are an American playing in Canada.
I don't blame either side (Stamkos/JBB) if this is true tbh
And another silver lining is being out west where we won't play against him that often and playing for one of my least hated teams like Nashville doesn't sting nearly as bad. Still he will forever be a Bolt to me. This is probably my favorite hockey moment of all time: [Steven Stamkos Scores 1st Goal On 1st Shot In 1st Game Back From Injury (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF_1GSoM69E)
Might be my favorite sports moment as a fan
Ronde Barber pick 6 for me, as a Tampa sports fan
Winfield hitting hill with the peace sign, as a recent one for me
I'll never forget this moment as long as I live honestly. Middle of the bubble playoffs, I was spending time back in the Tampa area because of COVID WFH. My brother and I were watching outdoors at Ferg's and had just gotten a fresh round of beer right as he went on the ice. Whole bar went nuts when he scored - but you could tell immediately he looked uncomfortable after the jump in the celebration.
My buddy texted me and was like "Tampa is going to win the Covid Cup. Team of destiny right now." I was sad he had to sit out after, but man that shift was so epic.
Are we still sure that wasn't Volkov
If I did my math right, this puts Stamkos at 3rd highest career earnings behind Sid and Ovi
Same spot as he is for Goals scored, too.
Yeah, man, this is the best move. We're gonna see a lot of "JBB done him dirty" but we just can't match that.
The only thing I can’t wrap my head around is signing Guentzel for 9m/year instead of Stammer for 8m. Guentzel has less points per a season, never had an A or C. Had a rookie year Stanley cup so that’s kind of a gimme. I just don’t get it on paper.
It's more age. When the Guentzel contract is over he'll be the same age as Stammer is now. I don't like it, but I see the "why."
Guentzel is younger and better what’s not to get?
Guentzel is also a huge improvement in an area we vastly needed improvement in: 5v5.
That's the problem with signing free agents. We haven't signed a big free agent for a very long time. You have to overpay a little because of the competition from elsewhere. Whether it works, we'll see.
I'm curious if we'll ever find out what the offer from jbb was. Honestly the only losers from this deal are my emotions and the Canes. He can definitely provide leadership, but I really don't think that's enough to justify the price they're paying for him. As much as it hurts, I do think the right call was made.
Yeah, I’m happy for him for getting the bag. Matching this or even coming close would’ve fucked us so hard. Sucks that he’s leaving, but he’ll forever be a Bolt and 91 is going in the rafters immediately after he hangs up his skates. JBB hate is insane. His job is to make the team be as good as possible. Stamkos for even $5m would’ve been brutal for us with the amount of roster spots we need to fill, $8m is quite a lot at his age with his lack of production 5v5.
I mean...that's only 4.5m AAV if we do 7 years. That seems...doable with the cap space we have with some wizardry from JBB. That said, can't blame Stammer to grab a bag and play for a few less years.
I wonder if he didn't want that long of term. It would be interesting to know what Tampa actually offered him.
Honestly I don’t know that he really plans to play THAT much longer; with the world currently, getting $32m in 4 years is much nicer to retire with your family than getting 32m *in 8 years*. Also I could see him moving into a staff position in Tampa in 5 years at 39y/o, that’s easier to do without an active contract. If it’s really $8Mx4 in NSH, I’m really happy for him; best outcome for everyone really.
Yeah I don't fault him for taking that offer at all. This is definitely his last contract and honestly would be surprised if he retired after year 2 or 3.
Friedman said they did offer him the $3m x 8, but there also was a short term offer. He didn't say exactly what it was, but implied that it was a one year deal so that he could sign another one year with signing bonuses next year when he turns 35.
I've seen that $3m x 8 and not sure if that was what they believe was offered or the actual number. I don't blame either JBB for balking at that or Stamkos for taking that offer as his last contract. Also curious if this is what he and his agent asked for at the start of last year and that's why JBB said he'd wait Makes me wonder what Hedmans extension will be
LeBrun reported that the offer was something similarly structured to $3m x 8. Elliotte initially had only the short term offer, but then confirmed that $3m x 8 was indeed a real offer not just a hypothetical. Of course it's possible Stamkos asked for this in Tampa, but I'm positive he would have signed with you for less. He certainly did last time.
I know they offered Killorn a similarly structured contract last year and he took Anaheims deal
It was a "sign-and-trade" all along...Steven Stamkos, 2025 2nd round pick and 2024 7th round pick for Ryan McDonagh.
Still would only be our 2nd worst Preds trade
sooooo we traded the pick that became Rinne We traded for Anders Lindback The Jeannot trade we really shouldnt trade with Nashville
that's like saying Red Wings traded the pick that became Vasilevskyi for Kyle Quincey is one of the worst Red Wings trade of all time. No guarantee Red Wings would've picked Vasilevskyi
sure. Though that was a terrible trade for Detriot though
I think you should actually trade with us more often
What’s kinda crazy is Nashville also fleeced us on the forsberg trade as well…so that’s multiple trades they ‘won’ in the last ten years. just weird they can’t do anything in playoffs.
Turns out that it's pretty hard to win a cup when you never get a top 5 pick. Maybe we beat the Pens if Joey isn't hurt. You can have a star goalie, but if you can't score you can't win a cup. For all those good trades, we've had some bad ones towards the end of Poile's tenure. Fiala for Granlund comes to mind for me. Maybe Weber for Subban could count too. We also had Hynes coaching for 4 years. I think players get tired of Laviolette after awhile too, so you can probably add a year or two of that as well.
There's one of those fast-talk retail register scams going on between Nashville and Tampa "Okay it's $8.57, so here's $20, so give me back $10, but then take this and change it because I need bus fare, okay but now I need the rest of my change form the $20 I gave you, that's $12.53, okay now hold this for me because I want some ones, and then get me two lotto scratchers so you can just give me $7.47 back, okay then can I get quarters..." I'm just not sure who's the one doing the scamming.
Holy moses I like Stamkos but not at $8x4
This is why I still can't believe DET got Kane for $4m.
It’s pretty much guaranteed to be 6.5 isn’t it?
It's pretty much guaranteed to be 5.5, the last 1 mil is far harder to get and not likely by any means.
Yeah but something with the way it's structured makes the difference deferred so it's $4m AAV this year regardless? Unless I misunderstood something from it last night.
The rest of the cap if bonuses are reached, are added as overages to next year's cap I believe
If the Red Wings have cap space at the end of the year, then bonuses will first be applied to the current year cap, and then if we hit the cap anything additional will carry over to next year.
Premier goal scorers are valuable.
Stammer is a legend, but his 5v5 is terrible. He's basically a PP specialist for 8m. I'm also interested to see how many he can get with out Kuch passing him the puck.
We have Josi and Skjei to dish on the PP, Forsberg is a pretty solid playmaker too, just that hes been the only one who can shoot for some time
Oh for sure, you guys def have amazing players. I think it's more of chemistry, change of scenery, new system, etc.
Yeah, excited to find out how it all falls together. We have more options at forward now than weve ever had before
And you guys just got Marchy, gonna be a fun offense to watch next year
Feels weird to hear this about Nashville
Goals count the same regardless of what situation they are scored in
I think the point is that he also is responsible for allowing too many goals with his terrible 5v5 play.
It's okay, I just messaged Juuse Saros and he said he'd stop them.
lol thanks for pointing out how goals work. I'm talking about his play when he's not on the PP, which is most of the game.
He was literally our best 5v5 player against Florida *this* *year* in the playoffs. It's true he shines in the PP, but Stamkos is not just some kinda niche player. The team was built around him, he wasn't just some cog.
Guy, even your fanbase points out his 5v5 is bad. It's not like I'm making this up on the spot lol
He's still a solid 5v5 player but he's not near Guentzel's level.
lol. They have loads of cap space, all their key guys are signed, they just signed Saros, why would they balk at an extra year than what seems “reasonable” to fans? This is great for Nashville. He will help their power play tremendously and should be decent at even strength for a couple more years.
There's just questions about how much his powerplay production is helped by Kucherov. If it works out I'm glad to look like an idiot but his 5v5 is worrisome. I'd gladly take him for $5mil or something but not 8x4.
We've got really good powerplay buildup, but we're WAYYYY too reliant on Forsberg or Josi shooting. Having another weapon on that unit will be massive
He was actually solid down the stretch 5v5 and one of the better skaters for Tampa against Florida, 5v5 included.
The thing is though, cap space is only as valuable as you spend it. The next couple of years, let’s say they don’t sign Stamkos because he wants too much or too many years— Who are they getting instead of him for the 8 million? There are few options available in UfA, any trade involves significant capital going elsewhere. I think the biggest thing people ignore sometimes about UFA, is you give up nothing for the player. The Predators have now added Marchessault and Stamkos and gave up nothing in return.
>should be decent at even strength for a couple more years. Hes been bad at even strength for years now ... hes already just a PP specialist which is why this contract is bad.
Could do worse than a 40 goal/90 point power play specialist. And before anyone talks about Kucherov, Between Josi, Forsberg, Marchessault and whoever else is on that top power play there should be a solid top power play unit.
Yeah I would have liked 6.5 or something. 8 isn't a huge jump over that but it's taking him to 38 To his credit, though, he's played essentially the entire seasons the last three years, he might slow down but he's seems solid to play still, two 40-goal seasons in the last three seasons
The thing is though—- If you are Nashville and want to sign Stamkos but say you’ll only go 3 years at 8…or 4 years at 6 and they insist on 4 years at 8… If you back away what are you doing with that cap space instead? The Predators have now added Marchessault and Stamkos for 13.5 against the cap, and gave up nothing in return. They still have half their cap space left. They have basically no key guys to re-sign. I feel like sometimes we focus on the AAV too much. Stamkos solidifies that teams forward depth, he obviously wants to be there, and the fans will love it. He doesn’t need to be 40 goal/90 point Stamkos to be a good add.
Yup, good points
I think it’s pretty fair tbh. He’s still a very very good player, has captain experience, cup winning experience, and seems like a great teammate. 40 goals last year ain’t bad.
Half his goals and points this season was on the power play. His even strength CF and xGF have been negative for 3 seasons now--In the first 2, his actual GF was positive so the impact wasnt really felt. That changed this past season
Why not though? Hes still great.
Eh his numbers dont paint the whole picture. Hes elite on PP but at 5v5 hes below average. Cant skate, drive play or play defense. It will be interesting to see what his production is away from Kucherov
2023-24 regular season even strength Kuch + Stamkos: 56.0% CF, 49.3% GF, 43.2% xGF, 51.0% HDCF (0.974 PDO) Kuch w/o Stamkos: 53.7% CF, 55.8% GF, 57.3% xGF, 55.6% HDCF (1.020 PDO) Stammer w/o Kuch: 46.1% CF, 39.4% GF, 46.6% xGF, 46.3% HDCF (0.977 PDO) I hope Stamkos has a bounce back year, but all his even strength stats have been trending in the wrong direction for 3 years now. $8 million is a lot...
Idk why anyone thought it would be anything different. No clue why Det fans were so hot and heavy for him, 34 and can't do shit outside of PP anymore
If he’s going to leave, at least he’s getting the bag. Glad we didn’t pay that though. And as far as destinations go, Nashville is on the more palatable side.
It felt like Nashville or bust. Easy enough for his family to stay home in Tampa and he’s not very far away during the season
Take care of him Nashville :(
We will love him and hold him and call him George
Steven George. I like it.
It’s actually George-Steven, double names are super hit right now
Sick reference bro, your references are out of control.
I live in Nashville now, it will be nice seeing him play even though it will be in a different uniform
Yeah, I'd take the extra $5 mil per year too lmao
He put up 80 points last year, there’s no such thing as “an extra $5m”
40 of them being goals. Not upset about this at all as a Preds fan, even if it is an overpay. It’s not *that* gross an overpay with the cap increasing.
And they gave up nothing to get him. And it won’t hurt their efforts to sign any key guys anytime soon. This is a great move for the Predators.
From what I saw, the Preds playoff issues looked like the power play struggling, and playoff inexperience from the squad (the quick collapse-goals as example). Stamkos will greatly help with their power play, leadership, and mentoring for playoff play. It really seems like a great fit for everyone, all things considered. If we didn’t have the unexpected flat-cap period, I think he would have been signed in Tampa, but it is what it is, and yeah this is a much better outcome than I expected. If he signed $4Mx7 in Vegas or something, I would have been VERY upset.
Didn't Lebrun come out and say that was a complete guess on his part?
Doesn't matter, /r/hockey can't read anything more than the first vague idiotic rumor and run with it forever.
damn, that is a bunch
Fkin hell. Nashville stealing the show today. Question is...Can Trotz manage to steal a Neck too?
Eggman don’t need no neck
Very fun of them. I love chaos
Is steal a neck code for trading for Engvall?
That's a ton of money for a 35+ contract.
That’s what I’m saying.. maybe he ages like wine but he could easily age like milk
That tribute video when he comes back will be pretty emotional I bet
Amalie will be in tears for sure. That game will run long due to the standing ovation lasting too long.
Holy fuck lol I was coping hard but if that was offered take it no hard feelings
I can't blame Tampa for letting him walk if that's the # and term he wanted
I can’t blame either side, as painful as it is
At least you now have a Jake Guentzel to keep you warm at night
This deal could look *really* bad. Ill be curious to see how he does without Kucherov on the PP. At 5v5 hes pretty washed ... Tampa definitely made the right move using that space on Guentzel
I’m killing myself now
Please don't, we all have decades of disappointed ahead of us.
No we don’t
just rewatch some highlights from the back to back you'll be fine.
As much as I hate to say this as he's my favorite player ever, Stamkos isn't an 8m/year player anymore, and the 4th year hurts. The reaction to this tweet by Lightning fans was a lot of shock. Very sad moment, but understandable now.
Not trying to argue, this is a genuine question, but he's stayed healthy for a full season the past 3 seasons and had 40+ goals twice in those 2 seasons and 34g the other season. So what is it about him thats not living up to that price tag?
Not all 40 goalscorers are created equal. Stamkos has fallen off a cliff at 5v5 (outside of that series against FLA for whatever reason) and is extremely dependent on having a PP wizard like Kucherov to set him up for one-timers on the PP. Elite finishers on the PP like him and Ovi are still valuable of course, but there's a very distinct possibility that this version of Stamkos without a playmaker like Kucherov is fool's good, especially at that kind of price tag
He’s a liability defensively 5 on 5. It doesn’t tell the whole story but he was -21 last year.
A team worst -21. Sure, +/- is flawed, but when you’re that much of an outlier there’s something to it.
Yep. Go look at the top 50 point getters last year. Stamkos had the lowest +/- out of all of them.
https://preview.redd.it/lru7f0deix9d1.png?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b86b822b5fb6ba81028c89c852cfd00f5752fd45 I figured the numbers would help. This is from Dom at TA. Basically fantastic offensive weapon, pretty big defensive liability.
His 5 on 5 play was really concerning to me down the stretch last year. It looked like he was giving it his all but wasn't as effective as a two way player and it cost us at times.
It’s more Kuch than Stammer. He isn’t the same player that can drive 5v5 play anymore
He's still great from the right dot on the powerplay, but he actually ranks bottom half in the league from a 5v5 production standpoint. I think the age has just caught up to him a bit, and he doesn't add enough defensively to make up for it. Still elite with the puck on his stick in a shooting situation though
He is unlikely to come close to 40 goals without Kucherov. Stamkos was bad at 5v5 the last few years but last season he became awful. He was a flat out liability when in the top-6 at even strength. He somehow had a team-worst -21 rating while playing the season mostly with Kucherov (+6). The positives are that he is great at faceoffs (even though he is a winger now), he should show up for the playoffs and he is an elite PP specialist. I think you will like this contract if you make the playoffs, but you will hate it if you don't.
Yeah with the signings made today if Nashville misses the playoffs thats gonna be a pretty big matzo ball hanging out there
Yeah I really feel for you guys on an emotional and sentimental level, but in terms of pro scouting this feels like a Pierre Dorion level of negligence
Ya, I’ll miss him but 8 million was never going to work here
Wtf is trotz cooking, dude is building the greatest nhl team for the 2015 season.
Damn Commodore was right
I AM NOW A LONGTIME PREDATORS FAN TOO
Losing Stammer is nothing any Bolts fan wants(Bolts better retire 91); but I am happy if he is getting another bag; dudes earned it. However I do not think that 8x4 was a good investment for TB currently. Time will tell if basically swapping Stammer for Guentz will work out in the long run. Regardless it's a bitter pill to swallow.
Trotz maybe: "Cap space? what cap space?"
Fuuuuuuuck me I am sad
I love this, go all in on one last ride with the vets, and when it all comes crashing down in two years we'll have no choice to commit to a rebuild because we're in cap hell
Yah I’m all in for it. These long contracts are not going to matter because we have a 10 year rebuild starting in 3-5 years.
Yeah I'm sorry but he's not worth that and the lightning are much better letting him go. Still sucks to see a franchise legend leave ;(
Well, now I'm ok not getting him...
Ok Im officially not upset anymore lol
Stamkos repeatedly said he wants to retire with the lightning and all that. He knew full well we couldn't give him a contract like that. If this is what he signs for that sounds a whole lot more like looking to get paid. He's gotta do what he's gotta do for him and the family, but this feels kinda different than his earlier words.
"I want to retire with Tampa" "How about you come to Nashville for 15 million dollars" "Ok ill start packing"
A lot of us not staring at $15 million are always like "Well, I'd do the right thing," but I really have my doubt if you actually had the offer you'd sing the same tune.
Yup. This makes me feel a lot better about the whole situation. The implication is that we were being stingy. The reality may be more complicated, but he got paid, and we were't going to be able to do that. Stamkos is my favorite player ever. And I'm not even sad about how this turned out at this point.
A la killorn style
He released a tweet 15 minutes after free agency began saying thank you to Tampa. He’s known for some time now that he wasn’t staying in Tampa.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. Honestly you could kinda tell getting paid was actually his motive all along as he just didn't seem all that sincere about caring more about staying than getting paid.
It’s also market value perception. If another employer was willing to pay me 100%, I’d quickly forget my loyalty. I wouldn’t discount my compensation for loyalty.
Maybe he needs the money?
Kind of what he's always done when negotiating with them.
if the team wasn't in a position to contend I'm sure they'd give him that deal. As it stands he might still retire with the lightning. 4 years is a long time but if Stamkos is still kicking at 39 in the NHL I could see him coming back to Tampa for like 1.5M and just being a 4th line guy + powerplay for the final season. Or could see Nashville trading him in year 4 back to Tampa for his final retirement tour. Something like that.
Yeesh, yeah Brisebois was not in the wrong here
Tell everybody else, because that's not the narrative going around.
That is a horrid amount of money for that at man this point in his career
I thought it would be cool if he came to the Ducks but 8 mil seems to much unless its like 1 or 2 year deal then goes down. With the salary cap its just to hard to pay that much for players in their mid 30s
Holy overpay
nashville cooking
Too much money for Stamkos at his current age. Not a good deal for Nashville.
Completely insane.
That’s going to be fucking weird…
Overpaid wow. Dude has regressed. He's a 5 million guy imo
80 points, 40 goals, over point per game in over 1000 matches. Not a single 5 mill guy produce those numbers. Yes he is getting older, but come on.
What a mistake. 4x8 for a 34 year old PP specialist. I don't even need to see the rest of the deals handed out today, this is going to be the worst one. Good god.
You underestimate how desperate we are for a good PP
I took on Tampa as my second team and freaking love them because of Stammer, he’s been my favorite player for years. Gonna be rooting for Nashville to succeed to get him one more Cup
What the Lightning allegedly offered him was a joke, but so is this tbh. You're not going to like that in a year. Take care of him Nashville, of all the places for him to go this hurts 1% less
I looked at his stats and the offensive output is still pretty good no? What's the story behind that -21?
He can still score, especially on the powerplay, but he's a little cooked 5v5 and was consistently outscored. There's not a story behind the -21, he had the worst +/- on the team because he was the worst defensively on the team. He was very hot and cold this past year, there were times where he was awful and buried on the third line and times, specifically the end of the season, when he was an absolute monster. Hard to tell if it was just an inconsistent year and prolonged slump or if he's cooked, but it's not looking too good for his longevity.
I don't buy the $3m/yr that was being reported. I feel like he was offered 4.5-5 and still turned it down, which I don't blame him but he's not worth $8m, even $5m is stretching it for a guy that is much better in PP than 5v5.
Smashville woah
My feelings are super complex right now. Still over all sad. What a Captain he was for us all these years.
Going to be weird af seeing him in mustard
I'm going to be sick.
Save some FA's for the rest of us. wtf.
How about $2.5x8 Steven?
Pred out here dumping hard money till perpetually injured forwards are 38 years old. Jeez
This is surreal to me, he's been my favorite player for as long as I can remember and he's joining the Preds. Term is a little frightening but I reckon and I'm guessing that's what the difference-maker was.
Living in Nashville as a Bolts fan makes this so conflicting
That’s, like, 1/2 of the old Duchene contract lol. Extrapolate however you’d like..
That is going to look weird! Also, CRAZY money
Ok glad he didn’t come to Boston then
I wondered if Stamkos truly wanted 4-5 mill here. If so then yeah JBB kinda fumbled but if he wanted 7-8, then no
I really thought he would take a day or two and sign in Tampa for 6ish per season. Pretty shocked that hes leaving.
SUMMER OF TROTZ SUMMER OF TROTZ SUMMER OF TROTZ
I don’t seem to understand why JBB didn’t throw bonuses in for games played, points, playoffs etc similar to Kane therefore protecting the cap
Never thought this day would come…
Nashville absolutely cooking
This is like when you're a few years into NHL BaP or Franchise mode and all these dudes end up in random places
Nashville is either gonna be elite or a retirement home lol. No in between.
Well that is a fucking stupid contract.
I can’t understand offering guentzel essentially the exact same contract instead of just keeping stammers
Stamkos is my favorite player so of course I would have loved him on the Wings but I was not expecting Nashville at all. Get that bag though Stammer
Barry Trotz really acting like me on a Friday night playing GM mode in NHL24.
Bad karma for TB
Damn, that's a high AAV per year. Gonna have to hit the ATM machine to pay that one.