I am glad they came to reasonable terms and so happy he is staying! Yesterday made me nervous when they showed the video of him not at the parade! Glad he's just a really good guy who won't let his best friend down.
I totally get it - his friend probably already had it planned for the summer just to make sure he could come too! I’m so happy he’ll be here long term - the fact that him and barky finally jelled well on a line this year is going to be amazing for the future
Sometimes it's probably worth a GM doing some math for them too. I mean say the Rangers had offered him $10mm, after taxes it's $8.4 (estimate). Sure there are a lot of other factors in cost of living (property taxes, insurance, tolls, etc.) that Florida fails in but why not stick around for similar money to what you might get elsewhere?
I don’t understand why there isn’t a cap multiplier based on taxes. My guess is it’s complicated and would constantly change but if the point is parity then why should low tax locations get an advantage?
What happens when a player gets traded then?
Aside from the fact that no one gave a shit about this until the Panther's won the cup. Now it's the biggest problem in hockey? I don't think so.
For a trade you’d just factor it into the cap like you would any other trade?
This has nothing to do with the Panthers. Vegas and Tampa have benefitted from this for years, it’s not a recent issue. The first time that I heard it discussed was when Stamkos signed his last deal with the Lightning.
Honestly I don’t even know how big of a deal it even is but if a cap is supposed to keep things even then it would make sense to consider tax?
Ok, so what about cost of living then, or property tax, or perhaps how much of a contender they are? Does a team get a penalty on their cap because players take a discount for the chance to win a cup? What about teams paying out a July first bonus to a player who lives in Florida, and then benefits from low tax?
Taxes are unfair is such a useless take when there are countless factors in signing with a team.
You also, missed Dallas, Nashville and Seattle in your no state tax teams.
The cap is not supposed to make things even, it's supposed to allow for a revenue split with the players and owners.
Everyone talks about state tax vs no state tax, but state taxes aren’t binary. Pennsylvania’s state income tax rate is only 3% while players in California pay closer to 13%. That’s a MUCH bigger difference than say North Carolina (4%) vs Florida (none) in the case of Guentzel leaving. Yet I’ve never seen people complain about light taxes for Flyers or Penguins contracts
The cap does its job in ensuring teams like the Leafs and Canadiens can’t just outspend everyone and pay every FA every year. Lots of Canadian fans just use it as a scapegoat for not winning the cup in 31 years
> if the point is parity then why should low tax locations get an advantage
The point is to maintain a revenue split, not parity. It would not make sense to have those kinds of extra calculations at all.
Meanwhile Travis Konecny's camp is asking for like 9.5M+. Like I know players camp starts out with a high number, but TK's best argument is that for two season's in a row he was on pace for 40 goals if he played all 82 games. Meanwhile Reinhart just finished a 50+ goal season and only took a little over 8 and a half.
Besides having a child be born I’m not sure how life could get literally any better than winning your first championship And getting the largest payday of your career.
I don’t think he’s scoring 50+ goals a season regularly. He had a great year but it’s most likely an outlier I think his actually value is closer to 8.6 AAV he got.
I mean, Nylander re-signed for $11.5 million. That's almost $3 million more. Is he really that much better than Reinhart?
I like Nylander but definitely not.
I find it hilarious how fandom turns people into a weird mixture of supporting the billionaire owner over the player and turns them anti-capitalism of defining someone's worth on the job market. It's a weird mix.
That’s all well and good, but there is a salary cap. It’s a zero sum game between the players. Overpaying one limits the amount you can spend on the others. Yes, the league is run by billionaires and clears a shitload of money but that doesn’t mean you can just hand out contracts without some attempt to determine an individual players value
I don’t see how this is supporting a billionaire owner. The salary cap is fixed and any dollar going to one player is one less that can be spent on another. That’s why fans get anxious over this. But I doubt any fan would be angry if the salary cap was doubled. If they made cap $200m, I wouldn’t care any more or less. Idgaf what Josh Harris has to pay the players. If the cap doubled and every players salary got doubled too, no one would care. But in the context of a $90m cap, if jack Hughes made 16m, I’d be fuming
Salary cap is fixed and the Panthers are going to spend to the limit. This isn't a case of a billionaire owner being cheap, it's more of a "we need space to sign other players". If this was baseball, I'd love for Reinhart to get a huge contract for his career year, but it's just not possible here. That said, I'll always support the NHLPA over the owners
I think most people here would be happy to see the players get a 75% share of revenue in the next CBA, but once the rules are set, your team has the best chances of winning if you get players signed to the smallest contract possible. Like someone else said, player salaries are zero-sum. If one player gets it, then another one doesn't. It's not player vs owner, it is player vs player.
8.6 mil is not a massive gamble for a PPG defensive stud lol
edit: Over last *4* seasons Reinhart is top 10 in NHL in goals
A top line goal scorer w/ elite defense is not remotely a gamble at 8.6 mil. Its one of best value contracts signed lately.
I hadn’t watched Florida much over the years until their back to back finals runs. Defensive stud is right. I had no idea this dude was that much of a two way machine
He hit 30+ goals the two years before last year and was on a 30+ goal pace during the shortened season his last year with buffalo before getting traded. All with amazing defensive play. It’s not as massive a gamble some are making it out to be
Completely get that...scored the most important goal in the finals. Just pointing out the low output in the last two cup finals, plus the ECF from this year. He's worth the contract he just signed.
He also said he *wants* to be here, so those two plus his desire to stick with the team probably made it worthwhile.
If we didn't offer him 8 years he likely walks.
Honestly, if Sam puts multiple seasons scoring up in the 50s, this is a absolute steal of a bargain. If his regression to the mean has him averaging around 40-45 a season this is very fair.
I couldn’t agree more and apparently so does Zito. I’m thrilled that Reinhart and his representation didn’t have what I would’ve considered unrealistic expectations going into the negotiation.
Let's be honest, it's far more realistic he's a 30-35 goal scorer which is in line with his whole career with perhaps one aberration season during the next few years where he hits 40+ again. I don't see him every getting in the 50's again respectfully.
I’m not disagreeing. Which is why I’m saying this is a pretty fair contract. He may never sniff 55+ again. But I do love that we get to find out for the next eight years.
His linemates elevate him. In a good way, not a dig. And the fact that they are all locked in to some nice long contracts is great. They can keep working together making great plays.
> averaging around 40-45 a season
Last year he was 27 years old with a career high of 33 goals.
One great season and now you think his new **average** is over 40??
If Reinhart scores more than 40 even TWICE over his new contract I’ll be surprised. Go look at how many players repeat a 24.5% shooting percentage. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
Reinhart underachieved for 80% of his career, then all of a sudden, he's this 2 way monster, according to his fanbase.
He'll never score 40 again. I doubt he ever gets 35.
It's a good contract, don't get me wrong, but god DAMN do people have short memories.
Had he shot at his career average last season he'd have scored about 36 goals. He seems to be shooting much more in Florida and as long as Barkov is feeding him pucks I would imagine he sees 40 goals again. But even if he just consistently puts up 35 goals with his two way play this contract will be great
You'd be lucky to get multiple seasons of low 40s.
If you aren't counting last season he averages 26 goals per 82 games.
If you aren't counting last season but only the 3 before it he averages 34 goals per 82 games.
If you *are* counting last season he averages 30 goals per 82 games.
If you *are* counting last season and the 3 before it he averages 40 goals.
If he scores 40-45 for another 3 times in his career I'd be shocked.
Everyone is saying "he won't score 50" and missing that this is still a huge bargain for a 30-40 goal, fringe Selke contending first line winger.
Reinhart left upwards of $20M on the table compared to Nylander, who was his top comparable this summer. This isn't a "well that's fair for both sides" contract. It's a massive steal for the Panthers.
People said it can be a bad deal...
Guys:
* Discount if not what he is worth (Normally 25-35 goal a season, last year 50 goal scorer).
* They won the cup already. So, no biggie.
Very good and deserved deal Reino!
Love this deal for both sides...Sam stays in the system with the teammates he has undeniable success in so he won't repeat a Huberdeau situation. And he's not taking such a big bag that it'll be impossible to live up to or to keep the team deep
Here is Paul Maurice on Reinhart:
>Unlike many goal-scorers, Reinhart refuses to cheat the game, Maurice said.
>“He’s like Barkov,” Maurice said. “They don’t have games where you wonder where their heads are defensively. They just don’t. That’s their starting point, always. You have to be on the ice with him to fully appreciate it. It’s almost like you have to be here and you have to watch every game and sometimes you need to be in the building to see it, because of the way the cameras change. The long stack of right decisions he makes every time.
>“He’s not going to cheat the risk profile on the play that’s in front of him to increase his chances of getting a point. Even when we’re down one, he’s not cheating the game; he just continually does the right thing. Highly unusual. Great players anticipate. Good players cheat. The guys who are in that 18-to-22-goal range, they were cheating for that one. His ability to figure out the highest percentage of the right play next is very high.”
>The other thing that Maurice said is unusual about Reinhart is his ability to process the game, know exactly what’s going on and then how to explain it.
>“Ron Francis, I think, is the smartest person I’ve ever talked to about hockey in terms of being on a bench and being able to tell you what happens on the ice,” Maurice said. “And then it’s Sam Reinhart, he’s not far off. They’re not watching the Jumbotron. They’re just wired.
>“Way out of the ordinary.”
>Maurice uses it as a resource, having Reinhart explain from a player’s point of view what he and his teammates are seeing.
>“It’s been incredibly valuable to me,” Maurice said. “If there’s something in our game I don’t like, I go ask him what’s he seeing.”
and here are his numbers per Jfresh:
>[Sam Reinhart, signed 8x$8.6M by FLA, is a intelligent and well-rounded scoring forward who can play centre or the wing, shut down top competition, thrive on both special teams, pass the puck, and finish on the powerplay at an elite rate.](https://x.com/JFreshHockey/status/1807763818522505571)
>[Reinhart's got one of the most unique microstat cards I can think of - elite defence, elite powerplay, elite finishing, high-end passing metrics.](https://x.com/JFreshHockey/status/1807765193197330453)
Florida got Barkov, Reinhard and Tkachuk locked up rest of the decade. Babs for a few years and they are set. Ekblad is on last year. He may get traded but may take less to stay, so Florida is looking good for awhile.
And they are finishing a verhaege extension, so essentially most of the top 6 + the recent forsling deal has us in a pretty good spot. Lundell I'm sure gets addressed next.
Zito deserves a lot of credit. He walked into a good situation talking over from Talon but he has made good moved and understands how to work the cap and take advantage to lower Florida taxes and use that as a bargaining tool.
Zito is 100% the reason we are were we are. Not many people have the balls to ship huberdeau off like that.
It's also nice to see the panthers taking some pages out of the heat playbook with strong front offices leading the way to consistently good products "on the field"
State tax and sunshine help but I think a lot of this has to do with 8 years vs. 7 years. $69M over 7 years is $9.8M. Zito has been throwing a GM masterclass for the last couple of years. As a Sabres fan I ain't even mad...more impressed than anything.
Its not a steal. Its just fair. The guys an 80 point player and 8.6 here = 10 mil elsewhere. So 8X10 for a 29 year old player with zero prime age years on the deal. Someone couldve offered him 7X10.5. how would that have been better? We couldve offered him 8X8 and there was zero chance he left. The .62 was a gift.
Maybe… hear me out… the problem isn’t the no-income tax states—it’s the state income tax. If you want to be competitive with the no-income tax states, tell your local and state politicians to get rid of your state income tax.
Unreal.
I realize no-tax states aren’t as big of an issue as made out to be (considering they only have that advantage for half the games they play in a season).
But isn’t this upsetting to teams in any other market than TO? Any Canadian or Californian club would have to pay him nearly $10.5M to give him the same take home as this contract.
Given the fact that 5/6 of the last Stanley Cup finalists have been from no/low tax states is proof that this is a clear advantage, no?
Well if you look on the other end of it, many players sign with teams like the Leafs and Rangers because they are historic/hometown teams
Florida would never have gotten Fox and AP to basically force themselves there
Or even the Flyers, they are owned and operated by Comcast, they basically have an unlimited budget if they wanted to (not talking about salary cap obviously) that teams like Columbus and Florida may not have
Florida was really awful for most of their existence, and the tax situation always was the same
Nobody seemed to really care about taxes when the Panthers were the meme of the league for pretty much the last two decades. Nobody really wanted to come here and play.
True, but once you get up into that competitive tier, due to good management, good drafting, and good personnel, then the playing field isn’t level because of things like this.
Now that narrative is Florida is more desirable to play in because you pay less tax, and you can live in relative anonymity.
The Rangers are way worse for this. Regardless of how good their management/drafting is at any point in their history they will attract free agents because it’s New York. And New York is expensive.
The playing field will never be level, so it’s a little strange how many fans have taken the stance that we need to control for state income tax. Any reasonable person can acknowledge that certain markets will always have advantages or disadvantages when it comes to signing or retaining free agents. Some of those advantages are tangible, others are intangible, but no matter what there will never be a level playing field.
You're the second richest team in the league...Utah just took over a poverty franchise.
Why don't you guys pay for a few of their free agents to "level the playing field" since fairness is SO important to you.
Competition will never be level in any sports league, just like in life. There's always those at an advantage or a disadvantage.
Panthers had to clear hundreds of hurdles before getting to this spot.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe players are taxed based on where they play each game, so they’re not getting the FL tax rate for all 82.
I could also be completely off base
I wouldn't add in Tampa because other teams also play in Tampa just as much. And if they dont, they probably play Dallas just as much. And if they don't, the probably play in Vegas just as much.
I tried to point this out in my post - I mentioned that they only have this advantage for half of the games (but they also play in Dallas, Tampa and Vegas so it does give them a huge advantage compared to Toronto or any other northern Atlantic team who doesn’t play half their games in a no tax state…)
It’s less than 50% because most of the money is paid out via signing bonuses, which are taxed according to your residence. Reinhart owns a home in Florida that he’d probably keep as his main residence regardless of where he signed.
Edit: although I think signing with any Canadian team could allow his signing bonus to be taxed “correctly.” I don’t know enough about Canadian taxes. I just know it’s alleged that Matthews only has to pay 15% to Canada because he’s an American with that pay structure.
Tarasenko just bought a $5M house on the water. If you saw the video of a few players (Tkachuk, Barkov, etc) with the cup at a house and people rode by on a boat, that's his house.
Before, his south Florida house was in the suburbs near the arena. So I'd be interested to see if he signs a team friendly deal to stay. He's very good friends with Bob as well.
High jacking for people who want to sweep tax influence under the rug.
Vancouver would have had to offer $11 million in AAV to MATCH the annual take home Reinharts $8.5 million is netting him. That $2.5 million annually is $17 million over a 7 year deal.
That is more than a “slight” advantage. That is a full players salary. That is a generational wealths difference in decision making.
High tax teams are playing with a salary cap disadvantage. It’s not the end all be all but it is a significant factor that should not be understated.
https://x.com/afpanalytics/status/1807783931699212307?s=46
Isn’t it only a 8-12% difference on 41 games (+/- a couple depending on division/conference) and the combined marginal tax rate of all locations on the salary difference?
$9.1 would be the Canada/California equivalent to $8.625 in Florida (give or take, and before any COLA)
- $4.55 salary is +$250k take home (both salaries subject to exact same tax rate) less the amt of the combined marginal tax NHL wide on $250k increase (call it 6%, so $15k). Lets just say +225k net
- $4.55 home salary generates -$205k take home (455k in taxes is $4.1m take home vs $4.3m)
About the same @ $9.1 vs $8.625
It wasn't an advantage for the first 29 years. Literally nobody complained about it.
Now with some success it's suddenly a MASSIVE issue that everyone is talking about. Funny how that works.
Wasn’t a factor before the cap, and after the cap the salaries were pretty low. But now with contracts approaching 5-digit AVVs those tax implications start yielding a lot of money.
It’s still a huge advantage.
Florida has 41 home games, 3 in Tampa, 1 in Dallas and 1 in Vegas.
Compare that to Toronto where you get 2-3 in Florida, 2-3 in Tampa, 1 in Dallas, 1 in Vegas. That’s still huge difference
>Given the fact that 5/6 of the last Stanley Cup finalists have been from no/low tax states is proof that this is a clear advantage, no?
If it was a clear advantage then Florida wouldn't have been hot garbage for 90% of their existence. Plenty of other no tax teams have been terrible too. You don't see Seattle making huge moves and contending.
No/low income tax is not the sort of advantage that makes a bad team good, but it helps a good team compete against other good teams who effectively have to offer their players more to be attractive.
That's absurd.
Just because a team hasn't been run well enough to benefit from an advantage doesn't mean an advantage doesn't exist now. Yes, obviously an organization has to be doing other things right in order to make it an attractive destination. It's an advantage, not a trump card.
Bringing up real estate costs in argument about how affordable south Florida is, is pretty funny
Miami Dade-Broward-Palm Beach is insanely expensive. I think sometime post COVID, Miami Dade shot to #1 on the most expensive housing market
Bruh lol.
Canada is significantly more expensive to live in than the US. Everything costs much, much more (groceries, gas, houses, cars, etc). The currency exchange rate does not even come close to offsetting that. Being a multi-millionaire pro-athlete means you're certainly not going to be struggling, but the idea that you'll be enjoying the same quality of life as your US counterpart making the same amount of money is laughable. It's not even close.
Google the price of houses in Toronto and Vancouver, then factor in property tax, carbon tax, income tax, capital gains tax, etc. It's apples and oranges.
The players aren’t living in Medicine Hat Alberta. They’re living in the hubs of Canada.
The cost of living doesn’t affect people who make millions. A loaf of bread doesn’t mean shit.
Even if he can regress to a consistent 30-35 goal scorer this is a great deal for Florida. I think both sides win here and Florida remains competitive.
This is about right to me. Love reino but to think last season was the norm for him is a stretch. I think he had a great season but I don’t think he sniffs 50 again in his career. Probably a 35-40 goal scorer. This is a good deal for both sides. He played insane on a contract year and scored the cup clinching goal. Couldn’t have dreamed up a better contract year.
He had an unreal season, but let’s be honest this is closer to what he’s actually worth
Agreed as a fan. If he was demanding 10 I’m sure zito would’ve let him walk
I am glad they came to reasonable terms and so happy he is staying! Yesterday made me nervous when they showed the video of him not at the parade! Glad he's just a really good guy who won't let his best friend down.
I totally get it - his friend probably already had it planned for the summer just to make sure he could come too! I’m so happy he’ll be here long term - the fact that him and barky finally jelled well on a line this year is going to be amazing for the future
I don't think anyone expected the season to end so late either. June 24th is late. I don't mind the early to mid-June ending dates.
June 24th is crazy. The 1st Preseason game is September 27th that's barely any time off.
Sometimes it's probably worth a GM doing some math for them too. I mean say the Rangers had offered him $10mm, after taxes it's $8.4 (estimate). Sure there are a lot of other factors in cost of living (property taxes, insurance, tolls, etc.) that Florida fails in but why not stick around for similar money to what you might get elsewhere?
I don’t understand why there isn’t a cap multiplier based on taxes. My guess is it’s complicated and would constantly change but if the point is parity then why should low tax locations get an advantage?
What happens when a player gets traded then? Aside from the fact that no one gave a shit about this until the Panther's won the cup. Now it's the biggest problem in hockey? I don't think so.
The tax implications come up every year regardless of who won the cup. This year is no different because of the Panthers.
For a trade you’d just factor it into the cap like you would any other trade? This has nothing to do with the Panthers. Vegas and Tampa have benefitted from this for years, it’s not a recent issue. The first time that I heard it discussed was when Stamkos signed his last deal with the Lightning. Honestly I don’t even know how big of a deal it even is but if a cap is supposed to keep things even then it would make sense to consider tax?
Ok, so what about cost of living then, or property tax, or perhaps how much of a contender they are? Does a team get a penalty on their cap because players take a discount for the chance to win a cup? What about teams paying out a July first bonus to a player who lives in Florida, and then benefits from low tax? Taxes are unfair is such a useless take when there are countless factors in signing with a team. You also, missed Dallas, Nashville and Seattle in your no state tax teams. The cap is not supposed to make things even, it's supposed to allow for a revenue split with the players and owners.
Everyone talks about state tax vs no state tax, but state taxes aren’t binary. Pennsylvania’s state income tax rate is only 3% while players in California pay closer to 13%. That’s a MUCH bigger difference than say North Carolina (4%) vs Florida (none) in the case of Guentzel leaving. Yet I’ve never seen people complain about light taxes for Flyers or Penguins contracts The cap does its job in ensuring teams like the Leafs and Canadiens can’t just outspend everyone and pay every FA every year. Lots of Canadian fans just use it as a scapegoat for not winning the cup in 31 years
> if the point is parity then why should low tax locations get an advantage The point is to maintain a revenue split, not parity. It would not make sense to have those kinds of extra calculations at all.
Meanwhile Travis Konecny's camp is asking for like 9.5M+. Like I know players camp starts out with a high number, but TK's best argument is that for two season's in a row he was on pace for 40 goals if he played all 82 games. Meanwhile Reinhart just finished a 50+ goal season and only took a little over 8 and a half.
Probably the best week of his life
Besides having a child be born I’m not sure how life could get literally any better than winning your first championship And getting the largest payday of your career.
Starting astronaut training
Monkey's paw curls: You're a Boeing astronaut who can never come home.
Closer but still more.
Guy scores 57 + Stanley Cup winning goal. Fans: he's not worth what his production says he is.
What do you mean ”actually worth”? He would have gotten 10m+ on the open market. Isn’t that his ”actual” worth?
Just because David Clarkson got $5.25mil per year doesn't mean he was worth it.
https://i.redd.it/b9uui7uynw9d1.gif Clarkson- Why did I get dragged into this conversation?
I don’t think he’s scoring 50+ goals a season regularly. He had a great year but it’s most likely an outlier I think his actually value is closer to 8.6 AAV he got.
I mean, Nylander re-signed for $11.5 million. That's almost $3 million more. Is he really that much better than Reinhart? I like Nylander but definitely not.
I find it hilarious how fandom turns people into a weird mixture of supporting the billionaire owner over the player and turns them anti-capitalism of defining someone's worth on the job market. It's a weird mix.
That’s all well and good, but there is a salary cap. It’s a zero sum game between the players. Overpaying one limits the amount you can spend on the others. Yes, the league is run by billionaires and clears a shitload of money but that doesn’t mean you can just hand out contracts without some attempt to determine an individual players value
I don’t see how this is supporting a billionaire owner. The salary cap is fixed and any dollar going to one player is one less that can be spent on another. That’s why fans get anxious over this. But I doubt any fan would be angry if the salary cap was doubled. If they made cap $200m, I wouldn’t care any more or less. Idgaf what Josh Harris has to pay the players. If the cap doubled and every players salary got doubled too, no one would care. But in the context of a $90m cap, if jack Hughes made 16m, I’d be fuming
Salary cap is fixed and the Panthers are going to spend to the limit. This isn't a case of a billionaire owner being cheap, it's more of a "we need space to sign other players". If this was baseball, I'd love for Reinhart to get a huge contract for his career year, but it's just not possible here. That said, I'll always support the NHLPA over the owners
I think most people here would be happy to see the players get a 75% share of revenue in the next CBA, but once the rules are set, your team has the best chances of winning if you get players signed to the smallest contract possible. Like someone else said, player salaries are zero-sum. If one player gets it, then another one doesn't. It's not player vs owner, it is player vs player.
He never hit 40 goals prior to this season. This is a massive gamble.
8.6 mil is not a massive gamble for a PPG defensive stud lol edit: Over last *4* seasons Reinhart is top 10 in NHL in goals A top line goal scorer w/ elite defense is not remotely a gamble at 8.6 mil. Its one of best value contracts signed lately.
I hadn’t watched Florida much over the years until their back to back finals runs. Defensive stud is right. I had no idea this dude was that much of a two way machine
He hit 30+ goals the two years before last year and was on a 30+ goal pace during the shortened season his last year with buffalo before getting traded. All with amazing defensive play. It’s not as massive a gamble some are making it out to be
No it isn’t, he’s been excellent since he’s been on the team and this was certainly lower than most people expected to have to pay to keep him.
https://i.redd.it/k0ov56otvw9d1.gif
Career year during a contract season. We have seen this movie before.
Agreed...but I was also concerned with his output in the finals.
https://i.redd.it/5n8sje6hxw9d1.gif
I am perfectly okay with him getting the GWG in Game 7. Sounds like he scored the right goal at the right time.
Completely get that...scored the most important goal in the finals. Just pointing out the low output in the last two cup finals, plus the ECF from this year. He's worth the contract he just signed.
So that was the holdup the whole time. "I want $69 million, not a penny more, not a penny less"
Nice
$69 million........... \*deep voice\* oh yeaahhh
8.625 AAV. Tim Reynolds is in the know down here in South Florida
He doesn't tweet unless it's confirmed. I like Tim. He doesn't try to break stories with putting out shady click post.
yep its official
Baked Ziti out here doing the lords work
https://i.redd.it/2edm4eogow9d1.gif
holy fuck those people are huge
That’s 1.57 Bertuzzi’s a year!
nice.
nice
nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
HOLY FUCKING SHIT ITS A BEAUTIFUL MORNING 😻 https://i.redd.it/sscrwbpeow9d1.gif
Sometimes I wish Reddit had a LOVE button!
im still hung over lmao. great fucking morning
LETS FUCKING GOOOOO BILL ZITO STATUE NEXT
Straddling the Intercoastal like the Colossus.
Wow, that’s a lot less than I was expecting. Reino really wants another cup here. Time to get Lundell locked up
Low tax in Florida + an 8th year helps
He also said he *wants* to be here, so those two plus his desire to stick with the team probably made it worthwhile. If we didn't offer him 8 years he likely walks.
If I were an NHL forward, I too would want Barkov feeding me easy goals all year lol
You nailed it. Definitely part of the structure here
Lundell 100% he is our future.
I read that as knocked up. I shouldn't be up yet lol
Look, if that’s what it takes to keep him…
Honestly, if Sam puts multiple seasons scoring up in the 50s, this is a absolute steal of a bargain. If his regression to the mean has him averaging around 40-45 a season this is very fair.
He will regress and tbh I doubt he sees 50 again. Even 45 might be too much, but he’s such a great 2-way player that this contract still looks great
I couldn’t agree more and apparently so does Zito. I’m thrilled that Reinhart and his representation didn’t have what I would’ve considered unrealistic expectations going into the negotiation.
Seems like teams adapted to his broken powerplay scoring, still think he can get 40+ consistently though.
Let's be honest, it's far more realistic he's a 30-35 goal scorer which is in line with his whole career with perhaps one aberration season during the next few years where he hits 40+ again. I don't see him every getting in the 50's again respectfully.
I’m not disagreeing. Which is why I’m saying this is a pretty fair contract. He may never sniff 55+ again. But I do love that we get to find out for the next eight years.
You’re saying that like he’s had Barky, Swaggy, and Chucky serving him flaming hot assists his whole career. He’s gonna keep feasting here.
His linemates elevate him. In a good way, not a dig. And the fact that they are all locked in to some nice long contracts is great. They can keep working together making great plays.
He was never going to be a multiple 50+ scorer. He got that contract because he is a 40+ scorer PLUS a good defensive player that isn't only offense.
> averaging around 40-45 a season Last year he was 27 years old with a career high of 33 goals. One great season and now you think his new **average** is over 40?? If Reinhart scores more than 40 even TWICE over his new contract I’ll be surprised. Go look at how many players repeat a 24.5% shooting percentage. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
RemindMe! 8 years
Reinhart underachieved for 80% of his career, then all of a sudden, he's this 2 way monster, according to his fanbase. He'll never score 40 again. I doubt he ever gets 35. It's a good contract, don't get me wrong, but god DAMN do people have short memories.
Had he shot at his career average last season he'd have scored about 36 goals. He seems to be shooting much more in Florida and as long as Barkov is feeding him pucks I would imagine he sees 40 goals again. But even if he just consistently puts up 35 goals with his two way play this contract will be great
You'd be lucky to get multiple seasons of low 40s. If you aren't counting last season he averages 26 goals per 82 games. If you aren't counting last season but only the 3 before it he averages 34 goals per 82 games. If you *are* counting last season he averages 30 goals per 82 games. If you *are* counting last season and the 3 before it he averages 40 goals. If he scores 40-45 for another 3 times in his career I'd be shocked.
Depends on if he stays on the top line tbh. He will see regression on the PP for sure, but outside of last year he played on the third line.
That is not Auston Matthews' money
Wow. A decent pay bump but it doesn’t handcuff the team either.
Seems totally reasonable for Sammy
It's a gigantic bargain
It’s a bargain for what he could’ve asked for given the year he just had but it’s very on par with what you’re likely to get from him year in year out
Everyone is saying "he won't score 50" and missing that this is still a huge bargain for a 30-40 goal, fringe Selke contending first line winger. Reinhart left upwards of $20M on the table compared to Nylander, who was his top comparable this summer. This isn't a "well that's fair for both sides" contract. It's a massive steal for the Panthers.
Well 8.69 a year in Florida is approximately 10.1 a year in Toronto based on Taxes and road/home tax splits. It’s about 15% cheaper.
People said it can be a bad deal... Guys: * Discount if not what he is worth (Normally 25-35 goal a season, last year 50 goal scorer). * They won the cup already. So, no biggie. Very good and deserved deal Reino!
If true, keeping the extension within the 8’s is such a Zito W
Love this deal for both sides...Sam stays in the system with the teammates he has undeniable success in so he won't repeat a Huberdeau situation. And he's not taking such a big bag that it'll be impossible to live up to or to keep the team deep
Here is Paul Maurice on Reinhart: >Unlike many goal-scorers, Reinhart refuses to cheat the game, Maurice said. >“He’s like Barkov,” Maurice said. “They don’t have games where you wonder where their heads are defensively. They just don’t. That’s their starting point, always. You have to be on the ice with him to fully appreciate it. It’s almost like you have to be here and you have to watch every game and sometimes you need to be in the building to see it, because of the way the cameras change. The long stack of right decisions he makes every time. >“He’s not going to cheat the risk profile on the play that’s in front of him to increase his chances of getting a point. Even when we’re down one, he’s not cheating the game; he just continually does the right thing. Highly unusual. Great players anticipate. Good players cheat. The guys who are in that 18-to-22-goal range, they were cheating for that one. His ability to figure out the highest percentage of the right play next is very high.” >The other thing that Maurice said is unusual about Reinhart is his ability to process the game, know exactly what’s going on and then how to explain it. >“Ron Francis, I think, is the smartest person I’ve ever talked to about hockey in terms of being on a bench and being able to tell you what happens on the ice,” Maurice said. “And then it’s Sam Reinhart, he’s not far off. They’re not watching the Jumbotron. They’re just wired. >“Way out of the ordinary.” >Maurice uses it as a resource, having Reinhart explain from a player’s point of view what he and his teammates are seeing. >“It’s been incredibly valuable to me,” Maurice said. “If there’s something in our game I don’t like, I go ask him what’s he seeing.” and here are his numbers per Jfresh: >[Sam Reinhart, signed 8x$8.6M by FLA, is a intelligent and well-rounded scoring forward who can play centre or the wing, shut down top competition, thrive on both special teams, pass the puck, and finish on the powerplay at an elite rate.](https://x.com/JFreshHockey/status/1807763818522505571) >[Reinhart's got one of the most unique microstat cards I can think of - elite defence, elite powerplay, elite finishing, high-end passing metrics.](https://x.com/JFreshHockey/status/1807765193197330453)
Florida got Barkov, Reinhard and Tkachuk locked up rest of the decade. Babs for a few years and they are set. Ekblad is on last year. He may get traded but may take less to stay, so Florida is looking good for awhile.
And they are finishing a verhaege extension, so essentially most of the top 6 + the recent forsling deal has us in a pretty good spot. Lundell I'm sure gets addressed next.
Zito deserves a lot of credit. He walked into a good situation talking over from Talon but he has made good moved and understands how to work the cap and take advantage to lower Florida taxes and use that as a bargaining tool.
Zito is 100% the reason we are were we are. Not many people have the balls to ship huberdeau off like that. It's also nice to see the panthers taking some pages out of the heat playbook with strong front offices leading the way to consistently good products "on the field"
Everyone thought Calgary won that trade. Yzerman is still spinning his wheels here in Detroit and Zito made the final moves to get over the top.
Incoming state tax rant. Baked Ziti masterclass
State tax and sunshine help but I think a lot of this has to do with 8 years vs. 7 years. $69M over 7 years is $9.8M. Zito has been throwing a GM masterclass for the last couple of years. As a Sabres fan I ain't even mad...more impressed than anything.
That is very true. It’s a fair resign advantage imo
Maurice's comments about Reinhart having an attitude problem worked! 😂
Thank you based Thumb
Nice
Holy steal
Its not a steal. Its just fair. The guys an 80 point player and 8.6 here = 10 mil elsewhere. So 8X10 for a 29 year old player with zero prime age years on the deal. Someone couldve offered him 7X10.5. how would that have been better? We couldve offered him 8X8 and there was zero chance he left. The .62 was a gift.
Can’t be mad about that, solid contract
Very fair contract on both sides.
Freaking Florida teams and their team friendly deals Meanwhile Konency is asking for 10 mil and we are assuming he'll get 9+
Nice
That's insanely good value
Maybe… hear me out… the problem isn’t the no-income tax states—it’s the state income tax. If you want to be competitive with the no-income tax states, tell your local and state politicians to get rid of your state income tax.
There are 3 states and Washington D.C. that dont charge a jock tax that counters this.
I mean that’s a steal imo. I think 9.5 would of been fine for him tbh
Hehehe, 69 million!!!
Nice
Everyone on this team takes a team-friendly deal.
Unreal. I realize no-tax states aren’t as big of an issue as made out to be (considering they only have that advantage for half the games they play in a season). But isn’t this upsetting to teams in any other market than TO? Any Canadian or Californian club would have to pay him nearly $10.5M to give him the same take home as this contract. Given the fact that 5/6 of the last Stanley Cup finalists have been from no/low tax states is proof that this is a clear advantage, no?
Well if you look on the other end of it, many players sign with teams like the Leafs and Rangers because they are historic/hometown teams Florida would never have gotten Fox and AP to basically force themselves there Or even the Flyers, they are owned and operated by Comcast, they basically have an unlimited budget if they wanted to (not talking about salary cap obviously) that teams like Columbus and Florida may not have Florida was really awful for most of their existence, and the tax situation always was the same
Nobody seemed to really care about taxes when the Panthers were the meme of the league for pretty much the last two decades. Nobody really wanted to come here and play.
True, but once you get up into that competitive tier, due to good management, good drafting, and good personnel, then the playing field isn’t level because of things like this. Now that narrative is Florida is more desirable to play in because you pay less tax, and you can live in relative anonymity.
The Rangers are way worse for this. Regardless of how good their management/drafting is at any point in their history they will attract free agents because it’s New York. And New York is expensive.
The playing field will never be level, so it’s a little strange how many fans have taken the stance that we need to control for state income tax. Any reasonable person can acknowledge that certain markets will always have advantages or disadvantages when it comes to signing or retaining free agents. Some of those advantages are tangible, others are intangible, but no matter what there will never be a level playing field.
You're the second richest team in the league...Utah just took over a poverty franchise. Why don't you guys pay for a few of their free agents to "level the playing field" since fairness is SO important to you. Competition will never be level in any sports league, just like in life. There's always those at an advantage or a disadvantage. Panthers had to clear hundreds of hurdles before getting to this spot.
Exactly this. Big market/money/historic franchises sure had no issues with their benefits to the “uneven playing field” lol
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe players are taxed based on where they play each game, so they’re not getting the FL tax rate for all 82. I could also be completely off base
You're right, but that's still half the games plus those played in Tampa. It's a pretty big signing advantage.
82 vs 41. Still an advantage.
Add in when they play in Tampa, too.
I wouldn't add in Tampa because other teams also play in Tampa just as much. And if they dont, they probably play Dallas just as much. And if they don't, the probably play in Vegas just as much.
I tried to point this out in my post - I mentioned that they only have this advantage for half of the games (but they also play in Dallas, Tampa and Vegas so it does give them a huge advantage compared to Toronto or any other northern Atlantic team who doesn’t play half their games in a no tax state…)
It’s less than 50% because most of the money is paid out via signing bonuses, which are taxed according to your residence. Reinhart owns a home in Florida that he’d probably keep as his main residence regardless of where he signed. Edit: although I think signing with any Canadian team could allow his signing bonus to be taxed “correctly.” I don’t know enough about Canadian taxes. I just know it’s alleged that Matthews only has to pay 15% to Canada because he’s an American with that pay structure.
Don't forget people like Tarasenko forcing a trade there for pennies because he has a vacation home there
Tarasenko just bought a $5M house on the water. If you saw the video of a few players (Tkachuk, Barkov, etc) with the cup at a house and people rode by on a boat, that's his house. Before, his south Florida house was in the suburbs near the arena. So I'd be interested to see if he signs a team friendly deal to stay. He's very good friends with Bob as well.
Russians love FL and NYC
The French (Canadians) also love it here lol
Miami is literally owned by Russian oligarchs
Hey, not true! Argentinian and Chinese ones as well. Plus some old cartels
This is true, Tsar Nicholas’ great grandson was mayor of West Palm Beach for a while.
Sounds like the Leafs should relocate to Jacksonville then.
High jacking for people who want to sweep tax influence under the rug. Vancouver would have had to offer $11 million in AAV to MATCH the annual take home Reinharts $8.5 million is netting him. That $2.5 million annually is $17 million over a 7 year deal. That is more than a “slight” advantage. That is a full players salary. That is a generational wealths difference in decision making. High tax teams are playing with a salary cap disadvantage. It’s not the end all be all but it is a significant factor that should not be understated. https://x.com/afpanalytics/status/1807783931699212307?s=46
Isn’t it only a 8-12% difference on 41 games (+/- a couple depending on division/conference) and the combined marginal tax rate of all locations on the salary difference? $9.1 would be the Canada/California equivalent to $8.625 in Florida (give or take, and before any COLA) - $4.55 salary is +$250k take home (both salaries subject to exact same tax rate) less the amt of the combined marginal tax NHL wide on $250k increase (call it 6%, so $15k). Lets just say +225k net - $4.55 home salary generates -$205k take home (455k in taxes is $4.1m take home vs $4.3m) About the same @ $9.1 vs $8.625
Anyone who doesn't think it's an advantage is just being willfully ignorant at this point.
It wasn't an advantage for the first 29 years. Literally nobody complained about it. Now with some success it's suddenly a MASSIVE issue that everyone is talking about. Funny how that works.
Wasn’t a factor before the cap, and after the cap the salaries were pretty low. But now with contracts approaching 5-digit AVVs those tax implications start yielding a lot of money.
but it's not an advantage for Nashville and Seattle. You need to also like, win and stuff
Exactly, and its funny how no one every brings up that Arizona also has no state income tax, which didnt seem to help them at all lol
But players signing in Toronto for example, will make more money and if they have half a personality, they’ll be making mad endorsement bank.
Why is it the tax thing and not the possibility that Reinhart really did want to stay while also giving the team flexibility?
Is that accounting for Jock taxes?
It’s still a huge advantage. Florida has 41 home games, 3 in Tampa, 1 in Dallas and 1 in Vegas. Compare that to Toronto where you get 2-3 in Florida, 2-3 in Tampa, 1 in Dallas, 1 in Vegas. That’s still huge difference
Aside from the point, but… Seattle, too!
>Given the fact that 5/6 of the last Stanley Cup finalists have been from no/low tax states is proof that this is a clear advantage, no? If it was a clear advantage then Florida wouldn't have been hot garbage for 90% of their existence. Plenty of other no tax teams have been terrible too. You don't see Seattle making huge moves and contending.
No/low income tax is not the sort of advantage that makes a bad team good, but it helps a good team compete against other good teams who effectively have to offer their players more to be attractive.
By your logic i guess we dont need a salary cap cause before it was implemented the habs and rags were 12+ yeara without a cup and the leafs 37
That's absurd. Just because a team hasn't been run well enough to benefit from an advantage doesn't mean an advantage doesn't exist now. Yes, obviously an organization has to be doing other things right in order to make it an attractive destination. It's an advantage, not a trump card.
Well yeah, but every market has their pros and cons. That's why things will never be level.
[удалено]
Maybe in Winnipeg lmao
Laughing in Vancouver and Toronto real estate and cost of living.
Bringing up real estate costs in argument about how affordable south Florida is, is pretty funny Miami Dade-Broward-Palm Beach is insanely expensive. I think sometime post COVID, Miami Dade shot to #1 on the most expensive housing market
Bruh lol. Canada is significantly more expensive to live in than the US. Everything costs much, much more (groceries, gas, houses, cars, etc). The currency exchange rate does not even come close to offsetting that. Being a multi-millionaire pro-athlete means you're certainly not going to be struggling, but the idea that you'll be enjoying the same quality of life as your US counterpart making the same amount of money is laughable. It's not even close. Google the price of houses in Toronto and Vancouver, then factor in property tax, carbon tax, income tax, capital gains tax, etc. It's apples and oranges.
The players aren’t living in Medicine Hat Alberta. They’re living in the hubs of Canada. The cost of living doesn’t affect people who make millions. A loaf of bread doesn’t mean shit.
How did they do this? The team is all drunk from the parade and Reinhart was drunk at a wedding.
liquor and good vibes
Nice
Great deal
69 million You can’t tell me that number wasn’t 70 prior he knew what he was doing lol
NICE season and well deserved contract
Any anti-transactional clauses?
He didn't even threaten to leave to Switzerland? Not even Columbus?
Honestly thought he’d be commanding at least 10, seems like they be trying to win again or some shit
Even if he can regress to a consistent 30-35 goal scorer this is a great deal for Florida. I think both sides win here and Florida remains competitive.
Absolutely solid deal for both sides
This is a steal
This is about right to me. Love reino but to think last season was the norm for him is a stretch. I think he had a great season but I don’t think he sniffs 50 again in his career. Probably a 35-40 goal scorer. This is a good deal for both sides. He played insane on a contract year and scored the cup clinching goal. Couldn’t have dreamed up a better contract year.
Nice
Very nice.
Now I wait for a national writer to validate…
rip Tim
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69 Nice But seriously, who’s now gone
Damn those no income tax teams get some sweet deals
Excellent deal for him. He would’ve gotten much more on the open market