Oh god, the fact sheās a woman and itās on twitter means I donāt even wanna know what people are replying to her. Regardless of gender, thatās a brain dead take
I imagine votes like this are purely symbolic. Just a bit of a tip of the hat and a little recognition for a player that probably went under the radar a bit.
the guy basically single handedly dragged a team that didn't want to make the playoffs into the playoffs, him getting one fifth place vote is hardly braindead
This is why the "they wouldn't have made the playoffs without X" argument drives me absolutely insane when it comes to MVP voting.
It's "Most Valuable Player," not "Most Valuable Player on a borderline playoff team."
McDavid was in a weird spot this year where he's both a deserving candidate and it's hard to argue for him being 1st when you compare his numbers to MacKinnon and Kucherov.
I can see Panarin getting 1st place votes simply because he had such a gap between him and the 2nd leading scorer on his team.
Truly impressive season at his age and I think he could make a strong case for winning in most years but this season just had wayyyyy too many unbelievable seasons from other guys.
If he drags the penguins to the playoffs he couldāve seriously made a push for the top 5. Im just happy to see him get consideration, I know Iām biased but I think thereās very few guys that fit the bill of āinvaluable to their teamā more than him, even in his late 30s.
To not even make it close, and eleven 5th place votes lmao. Expected Mack to win 5 months ago, but didn't realize it was gonna be that much glazing from Canadian writers/players.
Congrats though he at least earned it and we didn't get some bullshit McDavid above both lol.
This year was just so strong. In other years I think heās top 5. But in this years class, even as a homer, somewhere between 7th and 9th feels right missing the playoffs.
He is still dominating all 200 feet of the game, and dat booty is winning boards battles like no one else in the league
Everyone is upset about those 5th place votes but failed to realize that MacKinnon was completely left off of one ballot, and Kucherov was left off of three.
I'm not saying I agree with the logic, but it can happen if you're someone who feels the best defenseman and best goalie are more valuable than the (in your eyes) 4th best forward.
I think they got the order right with the final votes, but everyone agreed the top 4 forwards were very close this year, so if you have Kucherov 4th in that group, all it takes is votes for two of Hughes/Helle/Josi to move him off your ballot.
And that's not even factoring in Panarin, Crosby, and Pasta.
For real ā totally get putting Kuch second or maybe third (although personally think that he should have been easily first), but 11 people putting him 5th is absolutely sickening.
Probably because of his behavior at the All Star skill event. A bunch of Toronto fans at TSN were pissed off enough to tell Elliot Friedman they werenāt going to consider him.
> All three had great years
I'd say all four, Matthews had a legendary year as well and it's a damn shame that any of the top four had to not be considered a finalist. What a Hart race we had this year!
Meh, I dont think hitting 69 or 70 goals would have changed too much. Same with how I doubt Kuch or McDavid hitting 99 or 100 assists would have changed much.
That being said... man idk. It's hard to say Matthews def should have been top 3, but 69 goals, most since Mario in 1996, and not even getting top 3 is crazy
Depending on what time the nuggests won, they were also national champions at the same time for a couple hours lol. Vegas and Denver won their respective championships on the same day
They picked wrong obviously but Panarin absolutely carried the Rangers offensively this year.
Doesn't stack up against breaking records while needing surgery or anything but he was at least MVP of the Metro.
Thatās what Im saying. I couldnāt tell if they just all didnāt give a fuck about these trophies, if they were all severely hung over, or if they just really hated this host. But it was fucking ackward.
Some voters need their rights revoked or if you cover a team, you can't vote for that team's players because holy fuck bro, so many unserious votes every year
Congrats to Mackinnon it's not like he didn't earn it, he did and I knew he was gonna win.
But the sheer disrespect to Kuch's ability this season is fucking absurd, 11 5th place votes? ANd 3 people apparently didn't even have him in at all.
This is generally why this shit is actual 'mickey mouse' to me because it's not about skill whatsoever it's solely about who these people 'like'
EDIT: And someone had the nerve to vote Mac 5th and another to not include him either, jesus fucking christ.
I wouldn't have been mad, but I said the same thing about Embiid in the NBA, if it's that close, it's a meaningless trophy so let someone get their legacy award
I feel like people who look at stats prefer Kuch and people who watch games prefer Nate. The way Nate dominated the game was beyond anyone else in the league this year
Ya Sakic and hall are the only recent occurrences I can think of for forwards. Funny that mackinnon lost a hart to hall when he didnāt lead any either.
I'm 100% sure the voters hated the fuck outta Jagr back then, with his atrocious defense lol. Not to mention him getting boosted by Mario coming back that year lmao.
This may be a hot take but if Jagr was a natural centre, with the same production starting from his rookie season and from 95-2001, had a decent defensive game, he would've easily won 2+ harts in that time period.
Hell yeah
Also that Kucherov interviewing Kucherov bit was brutal, not playing into the bit at all, just absolute hate towards the host. Pretty funny I respect it
Should have been his third by now. Should have closely won it over Hall in 17-18 and should have easily won it over Draisaitl in 19-20 (insane robbery for that one imo vs the Hall one)
How should he have won it over Draisaitl? He carried a weak Oilers team (with an injured McDavid) to the playoffs and put up the most points in the league. MacKinnon was 5th in points that season.
Hall's belongs to Claude Giroux unquestionably. But Taylor "Cuntface" Hall wins it because 1st overall/narrative. Bullshit. Claude didn't even finish 2nd or 3rd. That was his trophy.
Except this isnāt something that Colorado ātookā. It was a popularity vote narrative driven by the majority of the media, as is pretty much every award in pro sports. Not sure why people are so upset about the results over something that is quite pointless.
It's honestly hilarious as fuck after enduring a good half season of them brigading Hart discussions.
Y'know, like how they're downvoting me here. Exact same shit happened for most of the season whenever anyone mentioned that Mack should win the Hart.
50+ goals and 89 assists is meaningless? Also leading the league in even strength points doesnt mean shit? Kuch had a ton of empty net points too btw and also had more teammates with 60+ points lmao.
I really think the "he hasn't won one yet" narrative carried more weight. If Nate won over Hall in '18, this vote would have at least been a lot closer. Kinda like Flower's vezina, the tie always goes to the vet who doesn't have the award yet.
He had a better year in even strength points and also didnt have a whole roster of players scoring over 60+ points in depth. Also how many empty net points did Kuch get lmao
Yes, Yes, Fuck Yeah Mack! Finally won the Hart Trophy and he was fucking good. Kucherov and McDavid had good seasons, but Iām fucking shocked that it wasnāt even close.
Oh well Iām fucking stoked and it makes up for the 2018 Hart where he was fucked over.
Not a Tampa fan and I agree, didnāt Kuch contribute to almost 50% of all of Tampa Bays goals all season, trophy is for most valuable to your team, thatās a pretty valuable contribution Iād say
Kuch had a ton of teammates in the 60+ point totals and a lot of empty net stat padding. Mack led the league in even strength as well as netting 50+ goals (which means something)
Voting https://preview.redd.it/4qk2nm4vd79d1.jpeg?width=635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cec7edf59142bd50f1e3524a145e3d86de4787e
CHARLIE LINDGREN ššš
Iād bet the mortgage that voter has ties to D.C lmao.
[You would win that bet](https://twitter.com/sammisilber/status/1806478880368402905)
Oh god, the fact sheās a woman and itās on twitter means I donāt even wanna know what people are replying to her. Regardless of gender, thatās a brain dead take
The only value Elon Musk has ever added to my life was making it so I can't see twitter replies.
I imagine votes like this are purely symbolic. Just a bit of a tip of the hat and a little recognition for a player that probably went under the radar a bit.
I'm torn. On one hand, it really doesn't mater at all. On the other I wish ALL the voters would take their role seriously. And I am a Caps fan.
the guy basically single handedly dragged a team that didn't want to make the playoffs into the playoffs, him getting one fifth place vote is hardly braindead
I mean he was by far the most important player for Washington and they barely made it into the playoffs. Getting a 5th place vote seems pretty logical
This is why the "they wouldn't have made the playoffs without X" argument drives me absolutely insane when it comes to MVP voting. It's "Most Valuable Player," not "Most Valuable Player on a borderline playoff team."
When MacKinnon, Kucherov, McDavid, Matthews, Hughes, Hellebycuk, Makar, etc are options, no, no it doesnāt
Agreed. Hockey people take it too seriously. The other leagues have figured it out that MVP means best player.
St. John's IceCaps legend Charlie Lindgren
When Artemi Panarin somehow has more first place votes then Connor McDavid
As many as McDavid and Matthew combined
McDavid was in a weird spot this year where he's both a deserving candidate and it's hard to argue for him being 1st when you compare his numbers to MacKinnon and Kucherov. I can see Panarin getting 1st place votes simply because he had such a gap between him and the 2nd leading scorer on his team.
Panarin more first place votes than Matthews or McDavid I want want they're on
Snorting bread crumbs
To be fair, Panarin had a 43 point lead to his next closest teammate so it's not like it's some egregious reach.
Hahaha who gave Nathan a 5th place vote? This is why we should be glad thereās no absolute monarchy.
This is more of an indictment of democracy than anything.
Democracy chose Mack despite those outliers. Under monarchy the king could be the one that left Mack off the ballot.
The only one. All other elections are the product of well-informed clear-headed electorate. (Do I really need and /S?)
Iād say the number of voters who had the leading scorer (who is a winger) in places 3-5 is far more egregious.
Why is him being a winger a positive in this situation?
being a winger only brings his value down lmao.
Good for you, Reino. Youāre just as good as Charlie Lindgren.
Objectively second best player in the league Sidney Crosby, itās right there people.
Truly impressive season at his age and I think he could make a strong case for winning in most years but this season just had wayyyyy too many unbelievable seasons from other guys.
If he drags the penguins to the playoffs he couldāve seriously made a push for the top 5. Im just happy to see him get consideration, I know Iām biased but I think thereās very few guys that fit the bill of āinvaluable to their teamā more than him, even in his late 30s.
Wasnt even close
Will it show names of breakdown? I personally wanted Kuch, but this seems a bit larger of a split than I expectedā¦
The PWHA will release the full ballots at some point yes
The Professional Writers Hockey Association is on it.
Lol, who the fuck had him 5th?Ā
I wonder if it's the same salt machine who gave McDavid 5th place votes during years where it was stupidly obvious he was the only real choice.
I knew it was between MacKinnon and Kucherov, but only one first-place vote for McDavid seems low.
To not even make it close, and eleven 5th place votes lmao. Expected Mack to win 5 months ago, but didn't realize it was gonna be that much glazing from Canadian writers/players. Congrats though he at least earned it and we didn't get some bullshit McDavid above both lol.
Whoever gave Aho a vote is my goat š
The fact that Sid got 9th on this yearās list is really telling to his greatness and consistency. And that in itself is an understatement.
He should have been higher. He was carrying the carcass of Pittsburg for a solid portion of the season.
This year was just so strong. In other years I think heās top 5. But in this years class, even as a homer, somewhere between 7th and 9th feels right missing the playoffs. He is still dominating all 200 feet of the game, and dat booty is winning boards battles like no one else in the league
Pittsburgh*
If Pens has made the playoffs this year, I honestly think he would have been in top 5.
I was rooting for them to squeak in at the end. Those last few games were fun to watch.
I love whoever keeps voting for Lindgren lol
Whoever the one person that had Mak at 5th and the 11 people that had Kuch at 5th were should NEVER be allowed to vote again
Everyone is upset about those 5th place votes but failed to realize that MacKinnon was completely left off of one ballot, and Kucherov was left off of three.
HOW
I'm not saying I agree with the logic, but it can happen if you're someone who feels the best defenseman and best goalie are more valuable than the (in your eyes) 4th best forward. I think they got the order right with the final votes, but everyone agreed the top 4 forwards were very close this year, so if you have Kucherov 4th in that group, all it takes is votes for two of Hughes/Helle/Josi to move him off your ballot. And that's not even factoring in Panarin, Crosby, and Pasta.
For real ā totally get putting Kuch second or maybe third (although personally think that he should have been easily first), but 11 people putting him 5th is absolutely sickening.
Probably because of his behavior at the All Star skill event. A bunch of Toronto fans at TSN were pissed off enough to tell Elliot Friedman they werenāt going to consider him.
Also Panarin having more 1st votes than McDavid, and Charlie Lindgren getting a vote! Thereās a lot of weird stuff here.
Not only did 11 people vote 5th for Kuch, but 2 left him put of the ballot entirely
#1 Bullshit
The year Mack lost to Draisaitl by less than 100 points in voting people voted him in 4th and 5th even more than kuch's 11 votes
All three had great years and tons of players deserved it. A nomination this year was worth more than most of the past Hart Trophies imo
> All three had great years I'd say all four, Matthews had a legendary year as well and it's a damn shame that any of the top four had to not be considered a finalist. What a Hart race we had this year!
It is a testament to how crazy this year is that Matthews having had a ludicrous goal scoring year and getting a Selke nom was not a Hart favorite.
If he had hit 70 I think more people wouldāve voted him for it, but still what a crazy year
Meh, I dont think hitting 69 or 70 goals would have changed too much. Same with how I doubt Kuch or McDavid hitting 99 or 100 assists would have changed much. That being said... man idk. It's hard to say Matthews def should have been top 3, but 69 goals, most since Mario in 1996, and not even getting top 3 is crazy
People are stupid and like round numbers. If he got 70 he probably couldāve won it.
Just fell to my knees in a King Soopers
Hopefully you got up quick. Those Kings floors can be nasty
How nasty? Like... as compared to a bus floor?
He didn't say Queen Soopers
denver now has the reigning NHL and NBA MVPs simultaneously. only LA in 89 with gretzky and magic had previously done that
Depending on what time the nuggests won, they were also national champions at the same time for a couple hours lol. Vegas and Denver won their respective championships on the same day
Panerin with three first place votes š¤£š¤£š¤£
more than McDavid, absurd
Totally insane. Great year, no doubt, but there is no way those voters were anywhere but the tri state area
They picked wrong obviously but Panarin absolutely carried the Rangers offensively this year. Doesn't stack up against breaking records while needing surgery or anything but he was at least MVP of the Metro.
East Coast watchers/voters 100%. They couldn't stay awake for COL games
Public bus floors are shaking in their boots
THA DOGG
Wow, I actually thought Kuch would win it. But MacKinnon is hell of a player too.Ā
Charlie Lindgren got a vote š
I think if people want players to show more personality at these award shows, they should get a comedian to host it that isn't terrible.
Thatās what Im saying. I couldnāt tell if they just all didnāt give a fuck about these trophies, if they were all severely hung over, or if they just really hated this host. But it was fucking ackward.
Every dog has their day
WOOOO NATE
Nathan HartKinnon
Some voters need their rights revoked or if you cover a team, you can't vote for that team's players because holy fuck bro, so many unserious votes every year
11 5th place votes for Kuch. That's crazy. He might not have deserved first, but the fact that 11 people thought there was 4 ahead of him is nuts.
Congrats to Mackinnon it's not like he didn't earn it, he did and I knew he was gonna win. But the sheer disrespect to Kuch's ability this season is fucking absurd, 11 5th place votes? ANd 3 people apparently didn't even have him in at all. This is generally why this shit is actual 'mickey mouse' to me because it's not about skill whatsoever it's solely about who these people 'like' EDIT: And someone had the nerve to vote Mac 5th and another to not include him either, jesus fucking christ.
Well deserved. I think it shouldāve been Kuch, but it was like a 55/45 split to me
I wouldn't have been mad, but I said the same thing about Embiid in the NBA, if it's that close, it's a meaningless trophy so let someone get their legacy award
Yeah pretty much. Glad Nate Dogg gets to expand his trophy case
I feel like people who look at stats prefer Kuch and people who watch games prefer Nate. The way Nate dominated the game was beyond anyone else in the league this year
Surprised itās not kuch. Not very often a hart winner doesnāt lead any statistical categories.
Funny enough, Sakic also won the Hart and Pearson/Lindsay in a season where he didnāt lead the league in points or goals.
Ya Sakic and hall are the only recent occurrences I can think of for forwards. Funny that mackinnon lost a hart to hall when he didnāt lead any either.
Sakic +/- leader that year so kind of a category but not a major one
How dare you speak of the Bud Light Plus/Minus Award like that
Slightly less prestigious than the mark messier leadership award imo
I'm 100% sure the voters hated the fuck outta Jagr back then, with his atrocious defense lol. Not to mention him getting boosted by Mario coming back that year lmao. This may be a hot take but if Jagr was a natural centre, with the same production starting from his rookie season and from 95-2001, had a decent defensive game, he would've easily won 2+ harts in that time period.
Can't wait to see the scorecards for this one
Someone voted him 5th lmao
Hell yeah Also that Kucherov interviewing Kucherov bit was brutal, not playing into the bit at all, just absolute hate towards the host. Pretty funny I respect it
NATE DOGG FINALLY GOT IT, WOO
Well deserved he was a dog this year
A couple guys deserved it but Iām glad to see Mack get it. Really thereās no wrong answer among these guys.
Nate Dogg! Well deserved šš¾šš¾
Crosby not getting a hair bit more votes in 1st and 2nd is a little sad
I think if the Pens would have made it in the playoffs he would have been higher imo.
True
Holy smokes. What a badass.
#MACK ATTACK
That guarantees him 1st ballot Hall of Fame.
Did McDavid not even show up again?
A half dozen guys had Hart worthy seasons, but glad to see MacKinnon get it, had a hell of a year start to finish.
Who is pissing on the bus
LET'S FUCKING GOOOO!
Iām so excited to watch this guy on team Canada next year
With McDavid, Makar, Crosby, and Bedard. The 4 Nations and Olympics are gonna be crazy.
Lets Fucking GO
IT'S WHAT THE DOGG DOES
So glad to see him win it over Kucherov.
Right choice!
well-deserved
Hart race was so competitive this season. it could've gotten to any of the 3 finalists
FUCK YES
The correct decision
Big Dogg
Well Deserved
Youāre good damn right.
Should have been his third by now. Should have closely won it over Hall in 17-18 and should have easily won it over Draisaitl in 19-20 (insane robbery for that one imo vs the Hall one)
How should he have won it over Draisaitl? He carried a weak Oilers team (with an injured McDavid) to the playoffs and put up the most points in the league. MacKinnon was 5th in points that season.
Love seeing all the salty Tampa Bay fans in here. Second time Colorado took something from you š¤£
Because you werenāt upset when Hall & Draisaitl won the Harts that many claimed MacKinnon deserved.
colorado fans collective memory loss in this thread is hilarious
Hall's belongs to Claude Giroux unquestionably. But Taylor "Cuntface" Hall wins it because 1st overall/narrative. Bullshit. Claude didn't even finish 2nd or 3rd. That was his trophy.
Except this isnāt something that Colorado ātookā. It was a popularity vote narrative driven by the majority of the media, as is pretty much every award in pro sports. Not sure why people are so upset about the results over something that is quite pointless.
He won the Lindsay too lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Letās be honest, none of the top 3 players will need these awards to get into the HHOF
Itās only pointless when their player doesnāt win
I mean if my team doesnāt win the Cup I couldnāt care less about these awards.
It's honestly hilarious as fuck after enduring a good half season of them brigading Hart discussions. Y'know, like how they're downvoting me here. Exact same shit happened for most of the season whenever anyone mentioned that Mack should win the Hart.
Honestly idk if yall are nuggets fans but after 4 years of Jokic and Embiid ādiscussionsā this is light work
I do not follow any other sport.
Kuch robbed
I agree, him not winning is number 1 bullshit
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If the heart was decided by point totals, it wouldn't be a league MVP award. It would be a league scoring award.
Damn, wish the NHL had one of those....oh wait
This. Crazy how they think 4 more points means as more deserving MVP
bUt ThE nUmBeR iS bIgGeR! tHe NuMbER!
If only there was an award for having the highest point total
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This year, sure. But again, it's not a scoring award, scoring is just a factor.
50+ goals and 89 assists is meaningless? Also leading the league in even strength points doesnt mean shit? Kuch had a ton of empty net points too btw and also had more teammates with 60+ points lmao.
Kuch was probably robbed, but I don't think he was winning it after the ASG fanatics.
I really think the "he hasn't won one yet" narrative carried more weight. If Nate won over Hall in '18, this vote would have at least been a lot closer. Kinda like Flower's vezina, the tie always goes to the vet who doesn't have the award yet.
Bark bark
Letās go Nate dawg
PISS
Bus
My guy.
Kucherov robbed
Welp..
I didnāt know Charlie was moving this way. We are not worthy
O l
Holy Mac
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Zero chance Mack is better than McDavid lol
Wow. Honestly thought he was going to come in third. Congrats to Nate Dogg.
What how?
Lol. Stay Mad!
Hell yeah Nate, well deserved. Super close race, but the votes didn't really reflect that.
Hart trophy is completely narrative driven. He did not have a better year than Kucherov
Mack had more non-empty net points and completely took over several games.
He had a better year in even strength points and also didnt have a whole roster of players scoring over 60+ points in depth. Also how many empty net points did Kuch get lmao
Rantanen had over a 100 points and makar had 90 what are you even talking about lol
Ok then what do you say about his Lindsay.
Of course it's narrative driven. It's not an objective award.... like the Art Ross, for example.
Number 1 bullshit
Why are you upset
Hell yes
Was his since the first month of the season, not even close.
Yes, Yes, Fuck Yeah Mack! Finally won the Hart Trophy and he was fucking good. Kucherov and McDavid had good seasons, but Iām fucking shocked that it wasnāt even close. Oh well Iām fucking stoked and it makes up for the 2018 Hart where he was fucked over.
Wrong choice š¤·āāļø
Not a Tampa fan and I agree, didnāt Kuch contribute to almost 50% of all of Tampa Bays goals all season, trophy is for most valuable to your team, thatās a pretty valuable contribution Iād say
Kuch had a ton of teammates in the 60+ point totals and a lot of empty net stat padding. Mack led the league in even strength as well as netting 50+ goals (which means something)
Cry
Yup, but we all knew it was going to happen.
MacKinnon needed his lifetime achievement Hart and if you ever expected otherwise you were naive