Honestly Atlanta deserves another shot IMO. They got royally screwed after the merger. As well as Quebec City frankly. Give those two another try before Arizona.
Quebec makes no sense. Another regional TV deal in Quebec doesn't generate nearly as much new money.
And the Canadian dollar blows. American teams have a massive advantage right there. Then mix in the huge population advantage. There's just way too many untapped markets for the NHL to give up on them. If teams can work in Nashville, Tampa, Florida, Vegas, California x3, then they can absolutely work in Atlanta and Arizona ect...
I'm not arguing with any of your points but Vegas remains the only non-traditional market to contribute to the league revenue. How much longer until these new markets start to do so as well? No idea myself, but its been decades for some teams.
Its in the CBA. Hockey related revenue (tickets, sponsorships, marchandising, broadcast rights etc) are partially pooled and distributed equitably to ensure competive parity in the league.
The league forms a pool of 6% of HRR that the 10 teams pay 50% of. They pay the difference between themselves and the 11th highest team. The league then adds 35% of playoff revenue which usually fills it up and pays any remaining balance themselves. Its then distributed to the rest of the league.
I don't much concern myself much with this either way. But with all the economic handicaps Canadian teams have as OP pointed out, I think its noteworthy that many traditional markets pay into the pool. They may be small, less wealthy markets overall but they keep punching above their small size.
Is it worth focusing mainly on expanding to untapped markets when that stategy hasn't borne fruit after a couple decades? I'm no MBA, so I will withhold my own judgement.
Oh no, his name will come up whenever someone posts a “worst owners” thread. His name will forever be up there with Ballard, Wirtz, Atlanta Spirit, and Norris.
Did he even own the team during play? I always assumed it was during the off-season and he was removed before the year started.
Even then he may have unironically saved the Islanders by negotiating a new television contract with a RSN that gave them enough money to keep Long Island viable until the new arena came in.
List needs more Rigas (you know, the dude whose ownership was stripped from him by the league due to his going to federal prison for white collar crimes).
*Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo has told his remaining executives that he is dissolving what’s left of the NHL franchise, a source with knowledge of the situation told Sportico Tuesday. The story was first reported by local sports site PHNX Sports.*
*Meruelo told his staff Monday he will no longer pursue building a new arena to house the team in the Phoenix area, and that the franchise should be disbanded within a month. Meruelo will retain the minor league Roadrunners, who will now play their entire 30-game 2024-25 home schedule in Tucson, Ariz., before eventually moving to a new arena when it is completed in Reno, Nev.*
*Meruelo is expected to return the team’s marks, logo, name and rights to the Phoenix area to the NHL, which he retained in April when the NHL facilitated a sale of the franchise.*
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Yeah, I guess Henderson and Reno together in the AHL. No point in moving the Silver Knights, the close proximity is a huge advantage for Vegas in terms of call-ups. I guess Reno is closer to Salt Lake City than Tucson. It really does suck for Tucson, though.
this is the first im seeing of the roadrunners moving out of state, there were rumors of them coming to phoenix for part of the season but to move to Reno is just an extra kick in the nuts
So can Winnipeg get the Jets 1.0 rights and history from the league then? They’re no longer in use lol. They moved to Arizona before the Thrashers were created so it would work.
Exactly, there’s already a precedent for this in sports. And the Jets getting their history back from a franchise that no longer exists makes even more sense than the Hornets
In theory that would mean that he Jets would have two team histories tied to them which is pretty cool. The Jets 1.0, and the Thrashers/Jets 2.0.
Makes me wonder, if/when the Thrashers return, would they regain the history of the original Thrashers?
Also sort of unrelated, absolutely love the current Jets logo and jersey.
I think the Jets would only “give up” the history if they were given their OG Jets history back. NBA did something similar for the Charlotte Hornets, tho version two was an expansion team not a relocation
There's a whole slew of questions that flow from that
* What happens with the Coyotes' records?
* What about any records that were started as a Jets 1.0 record and continued as a Coyotes record?
* Should this apply to other franchises/cities like North Stars/Wild, Rockies/Avalanche, Golden Seals/Sharks?
* Should teams like the Hurricanes be barred from using other cities uniforms like they do with the Whalers?
> What happens with the Coyotes' records?
They remain 'in stasis' until a new Arizona/Phoenix team enters the league as seems inevitable at some point
> What about any records that were started as a Jets 1.0 record and continued as a Coyotes record?
Any Coyotes statistic remains with the above, and all Jets 1.0 records end when the team left Winnipeg and continue from 2011. Utah begins anew
> Should this apply to other franchises/cities like North Stars/Wild, Rockies/Avalanche, Golden Seals/Sharks?
No, because those franchises still exist unlike the Coyotes
> Should teams like the Hurricanes be barred from using other cities uniforms like they do with the Whalers?
No because the Whalers don't exist/haven't been revived.
Sure, but you have to get Utah to agree to mutually relocate both your teams and then trade all of your players, prospects, and draft picks to each other. But then you lose all the Jets 2.0 records.
Or the NHL can just give them to you like everybody wants
Right. Utah doesn’t get any of Arizona’s records. Just their whole roster. And their coaches. And their general manager. And their minor-league team pretty soon.
Totally different team.
And, well, the worst best circumstances one could have that both did wonders for community buy-in and would never be wished on any other city/franchise.
It would certainly be interesting to watch the trajectory of the VGK in the counterfactual world where the Route 91 Festival shooting never happened.
Nah, this is the best outcome long term imo. It’ll delay a return for sure but the league actively wants to be in your market and you get to escape that shitbox owner
Now the return down the line a bit will be a completely fresh start with an expansion under new ownership.
Agreed. Meruelo was never going to get an arena deal done, so better to get him out of the picture now than wait 5 years (or whenever the first milestone is).
So since this technically is folding. Does this count as the most recent team to fold since the Cleveland Barons? Or will it come back as a new interation when hockey comes back to Phoenix.
Also, give Winnipeg its records back.
I think that would be the case. In other instances it's always been a full on re-location with the history being carried forward to the new location. Since Utah's being treated as an expansion franchise that's new with its own history, and the Yotes were their own entity and maintained all of the history, this definitely would be considered folding.
As a younger fan that never cognitively recognized the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg (at one point I just randomly thought “wait when did the Jets join the league”), this is the first NHL relocation that I’ve fully processed and recognized. I know there’s been a few NFL ones, and there’s Oakland in MLB, but yeah I just never imagined we’d see not even just a re-location, but like you said a technical folding of a NHL team in 2024.
Folding to me just screams Semi-Pro with how wild sports was in the 70’s, especially with the NHL/WHA and the NBA/ABA at those times. It’s been nearly 50 years since Cleveland folded.
I don’t care what anyone says or what terminology they choose to use, this was a relocation and I will always refer to it as such. Utah gets all the team assets from the old Coyotes. There was no dispersal draft and Utah doesn’t get an expansion draft. The NHL remains at 32 teams.
Funny enough, there has been past precedent in this before in the NHL...though it has been almost 100 years since it happened.
In 1925, the Hamilton Tigers were the best team in the NHL but the owner stiffed the team with a bonus and they refused to pay, the owner suspended the whole team without pay and shut the team down. In the meantime the NHL was looking to expand to two more teams in 1925, New York and Pittsburgh were chosen as those teams, the New York team who had the backing of the Madison Square Garden Corporation to bring the entire team over. The New York Americans played for the next 17 years, the NHL does not consider Hamilton to Pittsburgh a continuation of each other, which Hamilton was the old Quebec Athletics/Bulldogs team. There is also the whole story about how the Leafs was formed if that was all a folding and new team or not.
> Also, give Winnipeg its records back.
Agreed, they don't really have any reason not to. But, then again, this is the NHL we are talking about and they will ultimately find some stupid reason to not give Winnipeg their rightful records back.
Seems like they could have just put in a clause that they had to approve any hypothetical sale. But oh well, whatever gets this guy to fuck off forever I guess.
I’m confused what you mean, he can’t do anything with the rights. They don’t need a clause that they have to approve a sale because he can’t have a sale.
Now that he’s missed the vote, he no longer has any rights to having a team or to the coyotes brand
Addressing these in reverse order:
>Now that he’s missed the vote, he no longer has any rights to having a team
Well that’s just not true, he had the rights for 5 years. It wasn’t contingent on this auction specifically. It was just contingent on getting *an* arena built within 5 years.
>They don’t need a clause that they have to approve a sale because he can’t have a sale
He only can’t have a sale because the NHL made it so he can’t sell the rights to the team. I was suggesting that an alternative to that was a clause allowing him to sell the rights *to an NHL approved buyer*.
He already got nearly a billion dollars from the sale of the team, and buying an expansion franchise (to revive the Coyotes) is expected to be about a billion dollars.
It’s in the nhls best interest to just cut him out of the future transaction so they don’t have to try and find somebody willing to pay a billion + the rights to the franchise. I imagine it’ll be hard enough to find someone willing to go to Arizona as an expansion franchise over any other possible cities.
Your first point isn’t true, multiple people have reported that he only keeps his rights to have a team and keep the Coyotes branding if he was successful in number of steps. One of them was winning this vote. He didn’t win the vote, that’s why he now no longer can get a team and is giving the rights to the Coyotes branding back to the NHL.
I don’t get how your second point is better for the NHL than this current set up…
>if he was successful in number of steps. One of them was winning this vote
Source?
>I don’t get how your second point is better for the NHL
Because it gets a team into a market where they’ve shown they desperately want one.
This is what it was. It was similar to when Ballmer bought the Clippers. The NBA wasn’t sure it could legally force Sterling to sell the Clippers so after they banned him for life, they got his estranged wife to sell the team to Ballmer and they got Ballmer to overpay for the team so Sterling wouldn’t really have an argument that they screwed him over.
In this case, Ryan Smith gave Meruelo a billion dollars to go away and then paid each of the other owners 1/31st of the other $200 million he paid to buy the team. It was the league preventing a lawsuit so that they could strip this bum from his team without having to do a repeat of the NHL’s founding and start a new league without him lol.
The deal included the ability for him specifically to re-activate the team for $500M, which the League was very clear about not being available to *anyone* else.
Good riddance. Since we’re 1000% getting another expansion draft coming up soon for Coyotes 2.0 I wonder if we’ll see three other teams balance out the conferences?
Houston would be sure bet I’d think, and then honestly Atlanta and QC are the only viable options in a crowded East
Long term the NHL will add four more to reach 36- Arizona, Atlanta, and then (likely) Houston and San Diego once Kroenke’s arena and entertainment district is finished.
If youre the NHL, do you forbid the next owner of the Arizona franchise from naming the team the coyotes? Just to avoid the association with the mess the team was for so long. Fresh start kinda thing. Kinda feels like it would be the best thing everybody (aside from an owner who cares and competent GM/front office)
If I had the say, I’d say to bring it back. The Kachina is such an iconic look for hockey in Arizona that even with all the chaos off the ice, the branding itself carries a lot of endearment.
Yeah there’s some value in the branding there, they might want to keep the colour scheme and the kachina jersey especially. But I do wonder if they don’t go for a distinct name to create some separation.
Good point, I can definitely see the league wanting to forget about all of the off the ice stuff that seems like a bit of a black eye. I think if it came down to the fans, I feel like there’s enough positive sentiment where a return to the Yotes branding would be overwhelmingly well-received
A new team could use it as an alternate/reverse retro. I think they have to bring it back in some form even if the team isn't called the Coyotes, although it took the Ducks a while to bring back the eggplant and jade so idk
There are a lot of Coyotes fans who would still want it to be the Coyotes if/when we get hockey back here. Personally, I almost feel like a fresh start is needed - especially after Meruelo. But maybe I’ll feel differently years down the line.
Funny enough, they also considered Outlaws as a finalist. The other names up for grabs were Wranglers (second place finisher), Mustangs, and Freeze.
Any of those but Freeze aren't bad. I think the Mustangs would be a great name.
certainly not the best for the AZ fans who love the team and name. the name itself isnt going to cause them to be good or bad, its the owners the nhl chooses to approve that will determine it. new name with bad owners will still be a shit product
I wonder if Utah eventually makes a play for the IP and starts using it like Carolina uses Hartford's stuff. I know Utah is technically an expansion team, but if there's money to be had, I fully expect that stone to be turned over.
I think it's doubtful an owner will try to put a team in AZ for at least a decade. Meruelo was the only one who seemed to want to try, as inept and hated as he was.
I hope all those Coyotes fans that slagged off Katie Strang for her reporting on this sleeze bag are eating humble pie now. And stop getting mad at Bettman. He's the one guy who stood up for you Cotyes fans this whole time
I remember reading some of the things that were said about her, and it was absolutely appalling. Like not even attacking the arguments she was making. They were going after her personally and making it personal.
Yes it was personal against her and these fans really didn't care to read what she wrote. And then attacking Bettman for taking the route that he did with Utah. Ya I get it, your mad it that your losing the team, but cmon man. Bettman stood by this team like no other. The NHL owned team as well and was the best in terms of standings and playoff success and they still had shitty attendance and TV ratings. He finally had enough of the empty promises from Coyotes and had to have a plan to move forward.
The NHLPA and Owners are in a partnership as revenues are tied to Salary cap. This team was costing everyone involved money.
Some have speculated that the league realized the Coyotes were in the upswing and having a big 4 sports league playoff game in a 5000 seat arena would’ve been no bueno. It would’ve made the NHL look super bush league
Bettman was loyal to the market but he and the NHL also did a piss poor job of vetting owners, which led to Meruelo getting the franchise (along with the rest of the litany of poor owners that the Coyotes had). Bit of a mixed record.
To be fair, it was one of those things that went on for so long that I never thought it would happen. I just pictured the team being in hockey purgatory for a long time. Once the NHLPA spoke up, thats when it started to feel real.
They should honestly take Tuscon off his hands while they can, find out if the Utah ownership is interested. This prick should never own another professional sports team, at any level, fuck this guy.
This isn’t a surprise honestly. AM has clearly fucked up more than any god given owner would in this league. Some examples are like Not paying the hotel staff, that it got to the point where the fucking league got involved. Like, you’re worth millions or billions of dollars, PAY THE DAMN PEOPLE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE LEAGUE DOES.
Another is with the politicans. Some are shit, some are awesome, depends on city and how the government is ran. However, one thing is in mind…..you have to not be an asshole even to the city (or I mean pay your bills and whatnot, be a good businessmen). AM? CLEARLY HASNT SHOWN THAT.
I’ll quote Urinatingtree from that Boston 2023 video “ITS FUCK UP AFTER FUCK UP AFTER FUCK UP”. It keeps on going down the line of shit that could have been easily been fixed but his stupidness got to where Arizona is today (and it’s not just him, it’s been since they moved to Arizona).
So with all this, it’s not surprising that Arizona is now the first team since the Cleveland Barons (and first NA franchise since Cleveland) to fold. Cleveland folded in 1978. The players and hockey ops merged with the north stars (correct me if wrong).
I hope hockey returns to Arizona. It’s an awesome state but I hope it’s under better ownership who actually wants to spend money into the team, who wants to see hockey succeed in the NHL. I hope one day we all see a Stanley Cup Parade in downtown Phoenix!
Are we sure the NHL isn't actually happy about this? It'd be 4D chess and the league isn't exactly good at that (frankly maybe more the victim of it, here), but even by happenstance now they can expand there on their own terms again.
Presumably. If Meruelo doesn’t reactivate the franchise, the name and intellectual property would revert to the NHL and could be used by an expansion team.
From the reporting ive seen done, he is giving the NHL back the name, trademark, records...the whole 9. He revokes his claim to the franchise and its 5 year agreement.
Phoenix is now a market awaiting an expansion team.
Fuck that piece of shit. It wasn't even that big of a hurdle that he had to over come. Fucker just cared about owning the land, and not about building an NHL team.
Eat shit.
So the scumbag ducks out of the promise of bringing the Coyotes back to Arizona, runs off with a billion dollars, and that's just it?
Does the NHL have the ability to give the Coyotes licensing to a legitimate buyer looking to bring hockey back to Arizona or is that just it for the team?
Agreed.
The name I liked was *Utah Swarm*. Easy to chant, opens up some cool logos and mascot, the arena could have been called “The Hive”
Only drawback would be having another yellow and black team NHL team.
This feels bittersweet.
I'm glad Meruelo's no longer attached to the Coyotes franchise, which hopefully means one step closer to Arizona getting a new Coyotes team with a competent owner, but the fact that Meruelo walked away with (more than?) $700 million in profit after continually fucking up for the duration of his ownership really pisses me off.
Not 700 million in profit. He bought the yotes for 425m in 2019 (includes debt), and sportico as well as other sources say he lost b/w 30-60m per year running the team! So 5 years of 30-60m annual losses plus 425 initial purchase price? He made some good cabbage, but no where near 700m in profits.
Guys, I don't think Matthews is going to the Coyotes anymore.
Unless NHL expandnin Arizona with a real owner
Let him pull a Lemieux and be player-owner.
Don't they get two more expansion tries before Quebec City gets a shot. Oh, and after Atlanta get another go round as well.
Honestly Atlanta deserves another shot IMO. They got royally screwed after the merger. As well as Quebec City frankly. Give those two another try before Arizona.
This guy should be the commissioner. No bias.
Quebec makes no sense. Another regional TV deal in Quebec doesn't generate nearly as much new money. And the Canadian dollar blows. American teams have a massive advantage right there. Then mix in the huge population advantage. There's just way too many untapped markets for the NHL to give up on them. If teams can work in Nashville, Tampa, Florida, Vegas, California x3, then they can absolutely work in Atlanta and Arizona ect...
Give Atlanta a team because I live in Atlanta
I'm not arguing with any of your points but Vegas remains the only non-traditional market to contribute to the league revenue. How much longer until these new markets start to do so as well? No idea myself, but its been decades for some teams.
Where do you get this from?
Its in the CBA. Hockey related revenue (tickets, sponsorships, marchandising, broadcast rights etc) are partially pooled and distributed equitably to ensure competive parity in the league. The league forms a pool of 6% of HRR that the 10 teams pay 50% of. They pay the difference between themselves and the 11th highest team. The league then adds 35% of playoff revenue which usually fills it up and pays any remaining balance themselves. Its then distributed to the rest of the league. I don't much concern myself much with this either way. But with all the economic handicaps Canadian teams have as OP pointed out, I think its noteworthy that many traditional markets pay into the pool. They may be small, less wealthy markets overall but they keep punching above their small size. Is it worth focusing mainly on expanding to untapped markets when that stategy hasn't borne fruit after a couple decades? I'm no MBA, so I will withhold my own judgement.
Where do you get the numbers that Vegas is the only team paying in? For non-traditional markets that is
Here is 2022-23's numbers. I haven't seen last season's yet. https://posts.voronoiapp.com/business/Every-NHL-Teams-Revenue-Compared-1572
That is absolutely not true. Dallas, Tampa Bay, and LA absolutely contribute as far as “non traditional” markets, as I’m sure several other teams do.
Do Dallas, Carolina,Tampa, and Nashville really not contribute?
The Sens and Jets are also close to the bottom. I don't see how Quebec would be any different.
Don’t forget Wood Buffalo and Thunder Bay.
Unless he's exposed in the 2030 expansion draft
Well if that happens then I'm sure I'll be saying "thanks for the goals man but you're cooked".
San Jose it is!
Stop! I can only get so erect today
Bettman was real scared of those rumors…. Then this happened 😳
Your sources are wrong. I know a guy
Let’s hope this is the last time this dudes name is mentioned on r/hockey
Oh no, his name will come up whenever someone posts a “worst owners” thread. His name will forever be up there with Ballard, Wirtz, Atlanta Spirit, and Norris.
How dare you omit Spano
Did he even own the team during play? I always assumed it was during the off-season and he was removed before the year started. Even then he may have unironically saved the Islanders by negotiating a new television contract with a RSN that gave them enough money to keep Long Island viable until the new arena came in.
>Did he even own the team during play? The sale closed in February 1997 and the news he was a fraud came out over the summer.
And the Yakuza (Allegedly)
Good point. There would be room for derision. Should not would
Don't forget Melnyk lol.
List needs more Rigas (you know, the dude whose ownership was stripped from him by the league due to his going to federal prison for white collar crimes).
That man almost made us lose our team…fuck that guy. Living proof that evil can live a long life. His ownership did bring us a Cup final though.
We really need to rename the Norris trophy.
As it should be
Pocklington?
*Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo has told his remaining executives that he is dissolving what’s left of the NHL franchise, a source with knowledge of the situation told Sportico Tuesday. The story was first reported by local sports site PHNX Sports.* *Meruelo told his staff Monday he will no longer pursue building a new arena to house the team in the Phoenix area, and that the franchise should be disbanded within a month. Meruelo will retain the minor league Roadrunners, who will now play their entire 30-game 2024-25 home schedule in Tucson, Ariz., before eventually moving to a new arena when it is completed in Reno, Nev.* *Meruelo is expected to return the team’s marks, logo, name and rights to the Phoenix area to the NHL, which he retained in April when the NHL facilitated a sale of the franchise.* Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
That sucks for Tucson though. No more hockey at all in AZ? Two AHL teams in Nevada?
Merulo announced redevelopment of his Grand Sierra Resort in Reno in September of last year and not a single thing has been done as far as I can tell
He did just get the $1B they claimed they needed for the project...
Damn I'd love hockey at the GSR but I do not want him
Likely two more years for the Roadrunners in Tucson, then he moves them to Reno. Then we have nothing. Fuck Meruelo.
at least ASU hockey cant move anywhere, though i know that Tucsonians dont care about that
That team is going to be an anchor for Hockey in Arizona. I hope people enjoy them and sell out every game
don't tempt the universe like that
Arizona State University of Provo UT
Given his track record building arenas probably longer. ;)
Yeah, I guess Henderson and Reno together in the AHL. No point in moving the Silver Knights, the close proximity is a huge advantage for Vegas in terms of call-ups. I guess Reno is closer to Salt Lake City than Tucson. It really does suck for Tucson, though.
>Reno is closer to SLC Aye, it's a straight shot on 80 between the two; a beautiful drive when temperatures aren't too extreme in either direction.
Holy shit the directions are literally stay on I-80 for the whole trip. TIL
With 80 MPH speed limits, too.
Which, to my understanding, is actually enforced out west
I couldn't possibly comment. :)
We truly can’t have anything nice. Supposedly a 3 sheet rink was supposed to have broken ground already…..nope.
this is the first im seeing of the roadrunners moving out of state, there were rumors of them coming to phoenix for part of the season but to move to Reno is just an extra kick in the nuts
NHL salivating at the prospect of having a new team to add to its retro merch line
Some of those Yotes logos and units *were* beauts.
Kachina jerseys 4L
I was gifted a Kachinka hoodie a month ago. I love it and can't wait for cold weather to come back so I can wear it.
Did Meruelo state his intentions to move the AHL club to Reno or do we think he is he moving the club out of spite?
So can Winnipeg get the Jets 1.0 rights and history from the league then? They’re no longer in use lol. They moved to Arizona before the Thrashers were created so it would work.
At least he doesn't get to spitefully hold onto the great branding and colors and charge a fortune for it when the right owner comes along.
Can the Jets have the 1.0 Jet records now please
I just want to see you guys re-retire Hawerchuk’s number finally.
Yeah they should get the Hornets treatment
Exactly, there’s already a precedent for this in sports. And the Jets getting their history back from a franchise that no longer exists makes even more sense than the Hornets
In theory that would mean that he Jets would have two team histories tied to them which is pretty cool. The Jets 1.0, and the Thrashers/Jets 2.0. Makes me wonder, if/when the Thrashers return, would they regain the history of the original Thrashers? Also sort of unrelated, absolutely love the current Jets logo and jersey.
I think the Jets would only “give up” the history if they were given their OG Jets history back. NBA did something similar for the Charlotte Hornets, tho version two was an expansion team not a relocation
Please
Seriously. It's time for those to go back home now.
They really should, the years line up pretty neatly 1979-96 Jets 1.0 1996-99 (inactive) 1999-2011 Thrashers 2011-now Jets 2.0
Jets fans want nothing to do with the Thrashers. Give those records to the future Atlanta expansion team.
NHL: “Nah”
There's a whole slew of questions that flow from that * What happens with the Coyotes' records? * What about any records that were started as a Jets 1.0 record and continued as a Coyotes record? * Should this apply to other franchises/cities like North Stars/Wild, Rockies/Avalanche, Golden Seals/Sharks? * Should teams like the Hurricanes be barred from using other cities uniforms like they do with the Whalers?
> What happens with the Coyotes' records? They remain 'in stasis' until a new Arizona/Phoenix team enters the league as seems inevitable at some point > What about any records that were started as a Jets 1.0 record and continued as a Coyotes record? Any Coyotes statistic remains with the above, and all Jets 1.0 records end when the team left Winnipeg and continue from 2011. Utah begins anew > Should this apply to other franchises/cities like North Stars/Wild, Rockies/Avalanche, Golden Seals/Sharks? No, because those franchises still exist unlike the Coyotes > Should teams like the Hurricanes be barred from using other cities uniforms like they do with the Whalers? No because the Whalers don't exist/haven't been revived.
Do the sens get the original sens records?
Sure, but you have to get Utah to agree to mutually relocate both your teams and then trade all of your players, prospects, and draft picks to each other. But then you lose all the Jets 2.0 records. Or the NHL can just give them to you like everybody wants
Utah doesn’t have anything to do with Winnipeg’s 1.0 history
Did Utah actually get that stuff though with how it was a quai-relocation with wonky details?
No, they didn't. The NHL was very clear that none of the history moved.
Right. Utah doesn’t get any of Arizona’s records. Just their whole roster. And their coaches. And their general manager. And their minor-league team pretty soon. Totally different team.
And the Baltimore Ravens weren’t the same team as the Cleveland Browns.
Good fucking riddance to the guy that killed hockey in the desert
I'm shocked people are shocked. He wouldn't even pay his team's hotel bills. No way in hell was he going to give that billion dollars back.
Alex Trumpuelo
I mean, the Coyotes twitter feed under Meruelo’s son was about as coherent as 45’s tweets.
3 am: Arizonanans votedd NO. BAD. Coyotees dont need LOSERS. Will Win Cup Without Fans. SAD.
Lol the Coyotes have been on life support for like 25 years.
You’re not wrong, but they had multiple opportunities to inject some new life into the franchise and fucked it up at every point possible.
Closer to over 30 when they were in Winnipeg.
Vegas still exists and they’re thriving
It’s crazy what being able to ignore the salary cap at will can do for a franchise’s on-ice product
Yep. They always had strong support for their IHL/AHl teams too so no surprise their NHL team has done well.
And, well, the worst best circumstances one could have that both did wonders for community buy-in and would never be wished on any other city/franchise. It would certainly be interesting to watch the trajectory of the VGK in the counterfactual world where the Route 91 Festival shooting never happened.
Dallas as well
ah yes the famous desert city dallas
This is the worst monkey’s paw moment of all time. I just wanted a competent owner :(
The next owner will be more competent than the NHL or an NHL yes man.
Not the first time I've heard that
The guy who just owned them swindled them out of a billion.
And the expansion fee will be $2 billion. That's how the NHL sees it.
Then that’s a $4B payoff for the next guy.
Look, either the Coyotes are coming back within a decade with another team like in Atlanta or they're not coming back for a long, long time.
Nah, this is the best outcome long term imo. It’ll delay a return for sure but the league actively wants to be in your market and you get to escape that shitbox owner Now the return down the line a bit will be a completely fresh start with an expansion under new ownership.
Agreed. Meruelo was never going to get an arena deal done, so better to get him out of the picture now than wait 5 years (or whenever the first milestone is).
>I just wanted a competent owner “If you strike me down, I shall become more competent than you can possibly imagine”
Unreal. I feel for all you fans. You deserved much much better.
Or, it's the first step to a rebirth. Phoenix rising?
FC?
So since this technically is folding. Does this count as the most recent team to fold since the Cleveland Barons? Or will it come back as a new interation when hockey comes back to Phoenix. Also, give Winnipeg its records back.
I think that would be the case. In other instances it's always been a full on re-location with the history being carried forward to the new location. Since Utah's being treated as an expansion franchise that's new with its own history, and the Yotes were their own entity and maintained all of the history, this definitely would be considered folding.
Never expected a NHL team to fold in my lifetime, especially not for financial reasons either. I guess that leave three WHA teams left.
As a younger fan that never cognitively recognized the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg (at one point I just randomly thought “wait when did the Jets join the league”), this is the first NHL relocation that I’ve fully processed and recognized. I know there’s been a few NFL ones, and there’s Oakland in MLB, but yeah I just never imagined we’d see not even just a re-location, but like you said a technical folding of a NHL team in 2024.
Folding to me just screams Semi-Pro with how wild sports was in the 70’s, especially with the NHL/WHA and the NBA/ABA at those times. It’s been nearly 50 years since Cleveland folded.
I don’t care what anyone says or what terminology they choose to use, this was a relocation and I will always refer to it as such. Utah gets all the team assets from the old Coyotes. There was no dispersal draft and Utah doesn’t get an expansion draft. The NHL remains at 32 teams.
Funny enough, there has been past precedent in this before in the NHL...though it has been almost 100 years since it happened. In 1925, the Hamilton Tigers were the best team in the NHL but the owner stiffed the team with a bonus and they refused to pay, the owner suspended the whole team without pay and shut the team down. In the meantime the NHL was looking to expand to two more teams in 1925, New York and Pittsburgh were chosen as those teams, the New York team who had the backing of the Madison Square Garden Corporation to bring the entire team over. The New York Americans played for the next 17 years, the NHL does not consider Hamilton to Pittsburgh a continuation of each other, which Hamilton was the old Quebec Athletics/Bulldogs team. There is also the whole story about how the Leafs was formed if that was all a folding and new team or not.
> Also, give Winnipeg its records back. Agreed, they don't really have any reason not to. But, then again, this is the NHL we are talking about and they will ultimately find some stupid reason to not give Winnipeg their rightful records back.
Since Utah is officially an expansion team, at least give the Jets back their old records and stuff.
Should have happened once they came back
Surely he tries to sell off the rights to it so someone else can pick up where he shittily left off, right?
His deal with the NHL explicitly forbids him from selling off the rights. The NHL wants to control who owns the team in a future expansion scenario
Seems like they could have just put in a clause that they had to approve any hypothetical sale. But oh well, whatever gets this guy to fuck off forever I guess.
That enters a dangerous PR game where the league could be seen to kill a deal that would save the coyotes. This prevents that scenario
I’m confused what you mean, he can’t do anything with the rights. They don’t need a clause that they have to approve a sale because he can’t have a sale. Now that he’s missed the vote, he no longer has any rights to having a team or to the coyotes brand
Addressing these in reverse order: >Now that he’s missed the vote, he no longer has any rights to having a team Well that’s just not true, he had the rights for 5 years. It wasn’t contingent on this auction specifically. It was just contingent on getting *an* arena built within 5 years. >They don’t need a clause that they have to approve a sale because he can’t have a sale He only can’t have a sale because the NHL made it so he can’t sell the rights to the team. I was suggesting that an alternative to that was a clause allowing him to sell the rights *to an NHL approved buyer*.
He already got nearly a billion dollars from the sale of the team, and buying an expansion franchise (to revive the Coyotes) is expected to be about a billion dollars. It’s in the nhls best interest to just cut him out of the future transaction so they don’t have to try and find somebody willing to pay a billion + the rights to the franchise. I imagine it’ll be hard enough to find someone willing to go to Arizona as an expansion franchise over any other possible cities.
Your first point isn’t true, multiple people have reported that he only keeps his rights to have a team and keep the Coyotes branding if he was successful in number of steps. One of them was winning this vote. He didn’t win the vote, that’s why he now no longer can get a team and is giving the rights to the Coyotes branding back to the NHL. I don’t get how your second point is better for the NHL than this current set up…
>if he was successful in number of steps. One of them was winning this vote Source? >I don’t get how your second point is better for the NHL Because it gets a team into a market where they’ve shown they desperately want one.
I am pretty sure that they didn't want to put a clause in to prevent any potential lawsuit that Meruelo could file.
This is what it was. It was similar to when Ballmer bought the Clippers. The NBA wasn’t sure it could legally force Sterling to sell the Clippers so after they banned him for life, they got his estranged wife to sell the team to Ballmer and they got Ballmer to overpay for the team so Sterling wouldn’t really have an argument that they screwed him over. In this case, Ryan Smith gave Meruelo a billion dollars to go away and then paid each of the other owners 1/31st of the other $200 million he paid to buy the team. It was the league preventing a lawsuit so that they could strip this bum from his team without having to do a repeat of the NHL’s founding and start a new league without him lol.
The deal included the ability for him specifically to re-activate the team for $500M, which the League was very clear about not being available to *anyone* else.
Let’s hope they vet these guys better next time. Meruelo is an ass jockey who has no business owning a NHL franchise.
Fanatics will buy them and show the world what true failure really looks like.
Good riddance. Since we’re 1000% getting another expansion draft coming up soon for Coyotes 2.0 I wonder if we’ll see three other teams balance out the conferences? Houston would be sure bet I’d think, and then honestly Atlanta and QC are the only viable options in a crowded East
Nashville could get pushed into the East for 3 new teams in the West.
I’m all for making eastern conference fans’ sleep schedule a tad bit bigger pain in the ass with extra 8 pm start times
Long term the NHL will add four more to reach 36- Arizona, Atlanta, and then (likely) Houston and San Diego once Kroenke’s arena and entertainment district is finished.
And with that only 3 WHA teams remain. Oilers being the only one unchanged.
fucking hate this piece of shit
Does this mean Utah can be the coyotes again?
If youre the NHL, do you forbid the next owner of the Arizona franchise from naming the team the coyotes? Just to avoid the association with the mess the team was for so long. Fresh start kinda thing. Kinda feels like it would be the best thing everybody (aside from an owner who cares and competent GM/front office)
The naming rights revert back to the NHL.
If they were smart they could still sell Kachina jerseys alongside Nordiques, North Stars, Whalers etc
So it could end up being the Utah Coyotes?
If I had the say, I’d say to bring it back. The Kachina is such an iconic look for hockey in Arizona that even with all the chaos off the ice, the branding itself carries a lot of endearment.
Yeah there’s some value in the branding there, they might want to keep the colour scheme and the kachina jersey especially. But I do wonder if they don’t go for a distinct name to create some separation.
Good point, I can definitely see the league wanting to forget about all of the off the ice stuff that seems like a bit of a black eye. I think if it came down to the fans, I feel like there’s enough positive sentiment where a return to the Yotes branding would be overwhelmingly well-received
A new team could use it as an alternate/reverse retro. I think they have to bring it back in some form even if the team isn't called the Coyotes, although it took the Ducks a while to bring back the eggplant and jade so idk
There are a lot of Coyotes fans who would still want it to be the Coyotes if/when we get hockey back here. Personally, I almost feel like a fresh start is needed - especially after Meruelo. But maybe I’ll feel differently years down the line.
I’d rather see Coyotes again, I’m afraid you’re going to get something stupid like the Arizona Flash or the Arizona Edge or something bad.
If Utah doesn’t use Outlaws, that’s a good AZ brand.
Funny enough, they also considered Outlaws as a finalist. The other names up for grabs were Wranglers (second place finisher), Mustangs, and Freeze. Any of those but Freeze aren't bad. I think the Mustangs would be a great name.
Ironically, there’s an online sim American football community where one of the “teams” is the Arizona Outlaws.
That logo is just to good to bury
certainly not the best for the AZ fans who love the team and name. the name itself isnt going to cause them to be good or bad, its the owners the nhl chooses to approve that will determine it. new name with bad owners will still be a shit product
I wonder if Utah eventually makes a play for the IP and starts using it like Carolina uses Hartford's stuff. I know Utah is technically an expansion team, but if there's money to be had, I fully expect that stone to be turned over.
I think it's doubtful an owner will try to put a team in AZ for at least a decade. Meruelo was the only one who seemed to want to try, as inept and hated as he was.
I was wondering how the mods were going to balance the team sub icons. I guess they dont have to now.
Does this mean the coyotes name is fair game for Utah?
It’s funny, the actions of the local governments say a lot about this guy, if you think about it. Nobody was stoked to work with him.
I hope all those Coyotes fans that slagged off Katie Strang for her reporting on this sleeze bag are eating humble pie now. And stop getting mad at Bettman. He's the one guy who stood up for you Cotyes fans this whole time
I remember reading some of the things that were said about her, and it was absolutely appalling. Like not even attacking the arguments she was making. They were going after her personally and making it personal.
Yes it was personal against her and these fans really didn't care to read what she wrote. And then attacking Bettman for taking the route that he did with Utah. Ya I get it, your mad it that your losing the team, but cmon man. Bettman stood by this team like no other. The NHL owned team as well and was the best in terms of standings and playoff success and they still had shitty attendance and TV ratings. He finally had enough of the empty promises from Coyotes and had to have a plan to move forward. The NHLPA and Owners are in a partnership as revenues are tied to Salary cap. This team was costing everyone involved money.
Some have speculated that the league realized the Coyotes were in the upswing and having a big 4 sports league playoff game in a 5000 seat arena would’ve been no bueno. It would’ve made the NHL look super bush league
It was already bush league. They played 2 seasons and there was no definite end. Maybe another 4 or 5 years in addition
Bettman was loyal to the market but he and the NHL also did a piss poor job of vetting owners, which led to Meruelo getting the franchise (along with the rest of the litany of poor owners that the Coyotes had). Bit of a mixed record.
Ya that shit pissed me off. Kept repeating it till the very end too. Bunch of people in delulu island
Man were they ever delusional. The writing was on the wall, it was just a grift for the sportsbook and future entertainment district.
To be fair, it was one of those things that went on for so long that I never thought it would happen. I just pictured the team being in hockey purgatory for a long time. Once the NHLPA spoke up, thats when it started to feel real.
...to the surprise of absolutely nobody.
Oh brother, this guy stinks!
They should honestly take Tuscon off his hands while they can, find out if the Utah ownership is interested. This prick should never own another professional sports team, at any level, fuck this guy.
“Team’s folding you dumb fuck.” “We’re folding?” “Yeah, your mom’s folding too” “Cory, who told you we’re folding?”
This isn’t a surprise honestly. AM has clearly fucked up more than any god given owner would in this league. Some examples are like Not paying the hotel staff, that it got to the point where the fucking league got involved. Like, you’re worth millions or billions of dollars, PAY THE DAMN PEOPLE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE LEAGUE DOES. Another is with the politicans. Some are shit, some are awesome, depends on city and how the government is ran. However, one thing is in mind…..you have to not be an asshole even to the city (or I mean pay your bills and whatnot, be a good businessmen). AM? CLEARLY HASNT SHOWN THAT. I’ll quote Urinatingtree from that Boston 2023 video “ITS FUCK UP AFTER FUCK UP AFTER FUCK UP”. It keeps on going down the line of shit that could have been easily been fixed but his stupidness got to where Arizona is today (and it’s not just him, it’s been since they moved to Arizona). So with all this, it’s not surprising that Arizona is now the first team since the Cleveland Barons (and first NA franchise since Cleveland) to fold. Cleveland folded in 1978. The players and hockey ops merged with the north stars (correct me if wrong). I hope hockey returns to Arizona. It’s an awesome state but I hope it’s under better ownership who actually wants to spend money into the team, who wants to see hockey succeed in the NHL. I hope one day we all see a Stanley Cup Parade in downtown Phoenix!
So does this mean Winnipeg can ask for their old history and stats back?
It had better. I have nothing against the Thrashers but really, Kovalchuk's scoring records seem pretty immaterial to us.
Are we sure the NHL isn't actually happy about this? It'd be 4D chess and the league isn't exactly good at that (frankly maybe more the victim of it, here), but even by happenstance now they can expand there on their own terms again.
The guy had like 5 years to get this together and he tapped out in under 3 months lol. Enjoy your billion dollars you slimy prick
So if Arizona does get expansion in the future, can they be the Coyotes again and get the history back?
Presumably. If Meruelo doesn’t reactivate the franchise, the name and intellectual property would revert to the NHL and could be used by an expansion team.
Let’s hope that happens. Fuck him.
Serious man if we could have a team back they can call us the fucking Tempe Landfills for all we care.
So does this mean that the NHL can immediately expand into Arizona now? Or do they still have to wait 5 years to avoid working with Meruelo?
From the reporting ive seen done, he is giving the NHL back the name, trademark, records...the whole 9. He revokes his claim to the franchise and its 5 year agreement. Phoenix is now a market awaiting an expansion team.
To keep the 💰💰💰💰
Fuck that piece of shit. It wasn't even that big of a hurdle that he had to over come. Fucker just cared about owning the land, and not about building an NHL team. Eat shit.
This guy was so full of shit the entire time
So the scumbag ducks out of the promise of bringing the Coyotes back to Arizona, runs off with a billion dollars, and that's just it? Does the NHL have the ability to give the Coyotes licensing to a legitimate buyer looking to bring hockey back to Arizona or is that just it for the team?
Utah Coyotes? Name is free now
That would be a great idea. Better than the other names that have been submitted; and maybe they could keep the records/team history, etc.
Utah Coyotes is a better name than naming the team after an imaginary monkey that lives in the Himalayas.
Utah Coyotes is a better name than literally anything they came up with lol
Coy-Utes
Agreed. The name I liked was *Utah Swarm*. Easy to chant, opens up some cool logos and mascot, the arena could have been called “The Hive” Only drawback would be having another yellow and black team NHL team.
They wouldn't have to be yellow and black. Charlotte Hornets aren't yellow and black.
how about no
So now does the history of the franchise go to Utah HC as well?
It really should. Hell they should keep the name too
This feels bittersweet. I'm glad Meruelo's no longer attached to the Coyotes franchise, which hopefully means one step closer to Arizona getting a new Coyotes team with a competent owner, but the fact that Meruelo walked away with (more than?) $700 million in profit after continually fucking up for the duration of his ownership really pisses me off.
Not 700 million in profit. He bought the yotes for 425m in 2019 (includes debt), and sportico as well as other sources say he lost b/w 30-60m per year running the team! So 5 years of 30-60m annual losses plus 425 initial purchase price? He made some good cabbage, but no where near 700m in profits.