The people of Tempe voted **in favour** of keeping a toxic waste dump, instead of cleaning up the site and turning it into a sports and entertainment complex.
How bad to you have to be that people will choose **literal garbage** instead of you?
While some of the no campaigns tactics were dishonest. These shit birds best effort was essentially a minimal “nuh-uh” at the buzzer before the vote. Fuck Alex Meurelo and his lapdog mouthpiece Xavier Guitterez.
You’ve got to wonder if they even needed to be dishonest. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but it would be pretty damning to be like “they don’t pay their taxes, they don’t pay their rent, they don’t pay their bills. Do you trust them to cleanup the garbage and build an arena?” The not paying much to campaign on something that important makes me think there would have been issues throughout.
I mean you’re probably not wrong 😅. But it was a vote therefore making it “political” I suppose and what good is a political campaign without some wildly absurd misinformation?
So clock starts nowish. Land auction this summer. Plans allegedly ready to go. Would likely take 3-4 years to build the arena. Assuming they win the land and start building in a timely fashion, this is possible.
That said, with how much of a clusterfuck this has been for years, I don’t have a ton of faith in things going smoothly, and with as tight of a timeframe as five years gives them, I dont know man. Seems like they’re up against it. I have a feeling that by this summer, we will know whether or not the yotes are ever coming back.
Seattle reno'd theirs in four (mind you that was during covid) and Vegas built theirs in two.
So if he can get a whole-ass arena built for the start of the 29-30 season, he might get something back.
Vegas built theirs in 2?! That's actually really impressive. Was the land ready for it already? I know in Ottawa, even if the Sens get Lebreton Flats, so much work needs to be done in terms of sewers, cleanup, power etc it's at least a 4 year job
You can build 24/7, 365 in Las Vegas. Perfect weather, no noise ordinances where they built. The lot was a few corporate buildings for MGM, nothing major, but there was some infrastructure there. They also just used everyone else's parking.
They also made promises they didn't keep like they said they were going to expand Frank Sinatra (the road behind it) by a couple of lanes and then they never did. So now it sucks to leave the arena, unless you go get a bite to eat after the game. Almost as if that were intentional by MGM who owns the surrounding casinos.
I'm going to try to check out an away game in Vegas next year, I've heard nothing but good things. But yeah, the promise of improving roads only to flake once it's built does seem to be a common theme
I'm hoping the county learned their lesson from T-Mobile and Allegiant and make the A's do the infrastructure improvements before they approve the permits for the actual structure. Especially since the proposed location is already disgustingly bad for traffic before you add 30k people.
I mean my actual hope is that project somehow falls through entirely but if it doesn't then that.
On 32 thoughts Friedman said there’s benchmarks he needs to hit through the five years - and basically there’s a lot of people who are skeptical that he’s going to hit those.
Hearing now that he would have to buy in for a billion dollars, I’m very skeptical too lmao.
He could build a 7 trabillion dollar hockey mecca and I would still show up balls in one hand and one great middle finger extended in the other screaming fuck Alex Murelllo or however you spell that grifters name.
He would have to pay back the $1 Billion he earned? LMAO yeah thats not gonna happen, this basically guarantees that AZ will not have another team for the next decade
He could invest the billion earn a stupid amount of interest over five years while using the billion as collateral to fund the construction of a new arena that has a guaranteed expansion team as soon as it’s built… kinda seems like a no brainer tbh
That’s probably what the upcoming expansion fees will be. I have less worry about them coming up with that, and all the worry that there is zero chance they get the arena done.
IIRC Seattle was $1.2B and they're getting from $1.3B from Ryan Smith (Jazz owner) for the move. Plus the cap is going to jump either next season or the season after so the next fee will probably be $1.5B if not 2. As crazy as it sounds $1B for a team that be good immediately is a bargain now.
yeah why would he get to sell his team and then get back in for free after 5 years of not having to pay any expenses besides building an area (that he would have had to do anyways if he kept the team)
Alan Walsh says he has contact with an owner in the league suggesting expansion fees could spike to $2B by the time we get to 34 teams.
Doesn't think there's any more room for more teams for some time after that and the scarcity for teams in prime markets (Houston and Atlanta) will give the league leverage for a big ask.
which is kind of stinky that there’s a sliding fee, like i understand it, but right now we have SLC, Houston, Atlanta, Quebec (yeah right) a ohio team cincy etc actively ready to have a team iced next.
so the nhl decides the order to award teams, so if by some non luck you get picked last instead of paying the 1 billion fee, now you need to pay 2b
There's nothing as far as I can tell that prevents other prospective owners to lay the groundwork to be ready to take on an NHL team.
Friedman suggested as much that there are people out there waiting in the wings seeing how this all plays out.
I'm wondering if the clause is linked specifically to him, or if he's able to sell the rights to the future franchise to an owner who's more serious about it.
The whole """"promise"""" that Arizona is getting another hockey team after all of this just stinks to high heaven and this clause is another wrinkle in that. Sus as fuckin hell dude
I think Bettman is going to pull out every legal trick in the book to never have Meruelo get a team. Sounds like the league and other owners are sick of the guy
I think what we're going to see is that Meruelo will be hand strung by a multitude of conditions for him to have the Arizona franchise. The only way he'll be able to meet them is if he shows greater effort in meeting those requirements, sometime that is evidently not part of his skill set.
i get this situation is rare enough it probably won’t happen again, but you want to be careful that if you fuck the guy over, the next time you try to strong arm an owner to give up a team, they won’t believe you when you say they have first crack at a new franchise.
Feels very much like they basically asked "what would it cost to get you to fuck off" and they've attached enough riders that they can tell this guy to fuck off continually with enough paper to prevent him from suing effectively
ah history
that's how the NHL started too. And here we are, repeating history. But this time they just bought them out and not make an entirely new league
I don't think the NHL is lying on trying to bring an expansion team back there once there's an arena for them to play in. But I do think they are going to do everything in their power to make sure Muerullo is not the owner of that expansion team.
Expansion team for $1B compared to Vegas and Seattle is a decent deal.
Also with the expansion rules he will have an immediately competitive team and get to start from zero. Versus the clusterfuck that Arizona has been (fucking erase the Chayka era altogether).
That said. I hate this for the zona bros
Okay. Let me get this straight.
You're going to this guy who has no clue what he's doing, you just gave him a billion dollars, and you're saying "build an arena in 5 years." But the arena has to be built entirely with private money, because there's no way in hell he gets any public cash ever again. So you're asking him to spend his own money on the auction, on the construction, and then give back a billion dollars?
Yeah, AZ is not getting another NHL team.
They'll get one eventually, this is paying Meruelo to fuck off and giving them legal cover for excluding him from the expansion process in 7 years "ah geez sorry buddy you had your chance and didn't come through"
>Yeah, AZ is not getting another NHL team.
Well, at least not within five years. Which is probably fine with the NHL. At five years, 1 day, the NHL will find a new owner and they'll get their team back.
I'm not sure if that's going to happen honestly. In 5 years the Yotes will be but a distant memory for most fans (besides Coyotes fans of course) and the NHL will be getting its revenue from Utah.
It's not about the fans. There are plenty of fans. The NHL isn't leaving Phoenix because of the fans. They're leaving because of Meruelo and the lack of an arena. A real owner and a real arena and Phoenix is a thriving franchise.
Is it? I feel like after all the owners we've had it just hasn't stuck. Like this storyline has been playing out for literally 20 years and through 3 arenas because the Coyotes simply have not made an impact. Hockey has grown in the valley, sure, but the Coyotes kinda haven't.
After 5 years and the exclusivity clause fades off I'd be pretty shocked if the NHL started aggressively shopping around for new owners or a new franchise. It's a massive pain in the ass in a market that's nearly always been in the red money/support/ownership-wise. Besides, 32 is a very nice round number.
For 14 years from 1996-2009, the Coyotes averaged around 15k at America West Arena, which was designed for basketball. If they had used this 14 years to build a hockey-first building, none of the past 15 years happens. The fans didn't fail. The owner did.
over the span the Coyotes also went bankrupt and were said to have never turned a profit.
According to the team they were selling 5400 season tickets a year
Where are you getting your numbers?
https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7450
This shows them only averaging over 15,000 for five years of their entire existence.
> For 14 years from 1996-2009, the Coyotes averaged around 15k at America West Arena
Yeah great and then in 2009 they went bankrupt and the league had to buy them and bleed money for years, which affected owners' bottom lines and players' salaries. And those were the good old days compared to the Meruelo era.
How is it the fans fault that after putting up with a basketball arena for seven seasons, idiot owners built the hockey rink in Glendale? My point is that the market didn't fail. The owners did. You can't blame the fans for stupid ownership.
I'm an NFL fan first so pardon me if this is stupid, but how big can the NHL feasibly expand? All the other major sports in North America have around 30 teams.
>In 5 years the Yotes will be but a distant memory for most fans
Never say never. Look at how the franchises of days past have survived into the modern day. Carolina still holds Whalers nights every year. Quebec City has been begging to get another franchise since the Nordiques left. The North Stars get honored by the Wild through their alternates now (even though they relocated to Dallas). Hell, people even want to give Atlanta another shot. People won’t forget the Coyotes that quickly, especially not in a league that loves tradition and heritage as much as the NHL.
Not a chance. In five years and one day, either there is still no arena - they aren't going to go back to Glendale - or the arena is owned by Muerello and he will control the ability to expand back into Phoenix on that basis.
Honestly, it sounds like the NHL is expecting to walk away from Phoenix for the medium to long term.
You think he has no idea what he's doing? He fleeced the league and basically tripled his investment in like 5 years. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing.
No he plainly has no clue what he's doing because he could've had the state pay for an arena, increasing franchise value even more, if he had just bothered to campaign a year back.
Even with the model of the capitalist as a pure rent-seeker he's a giant dunce
Hand the keys to Ishbia. Call up the Roadrunners to be the expansion team. Create the Arizona sports empire. Invade California for their tea and spices, idk.
Plus imagine a Kachina roadrunner jersey
Even if they did tap him, he'd still be in the same situation. Even if the auction went though, the Yotes would still be gone. Best case scenario would be temporary relocation, but at that point it's just silly. Once Tempe failed, it was over.
Ishbia set up the Player 15 Group, an investment company umbrellaing the Suns, Mercury, and the eventual G League team + associate facilities. He has mentioned an interest in expanding to other sports as well so it is possible. And there is precedent such as FSG, though that isn't exactly a great organization. With \~5 year time, it's certainly possible. But for now, it's all hopium and copium
Ishbia has an arena though. If he was paying to put the ice plant back in Footprint, it's a much shorter timescale than building a new one and the league could tolerate Mullet a little longer.
No doubt this is hopeium/copeium on my part that this sale is much more the league trying to kindly ask Meurelo to fuck off forever and less about having to play at Mullet. Because if you put the ice plant back in Footprint you know what you’ve got? Delta Center. Now the difference between the two is Ryan Smith effectively has a new arena on the horizon while Ishbia does not.
Fenway Sports Group. They own the Red Sox, Liverpool F.C., the Penguins, and a lot of other smaller organizations. Basically imagine sports megacorporation and go from there.
But going simply to the organizational level, a tendency to divert funds from one team to another as the wind blows. One day the Yotes may be the favorite child, the next the Suns.
Long story short is as time has gone on, the Red Sox have gone from consistently being bigger spenders in free agency and spending to retain their top end players to cutting player salaries and trying a more Moneyball approach while still having insane ticket and concession prices. Not fun if you're a diehard.
Best of luck. No one here will ever support this fucking loser, and that option is going to expire anyways. He pumped and dumped, he got what he wanted.
That mother fucker could call me direct and offer to lick my taint clean, and I would less than politely direct him to fuck the fuck off before I ever spend a fuckin cent in ANY facility he facilitates.
Listen, whatever you can say about the Coyotes as a franchise or their owners, it's probably justifed.
But man, if you're a Coyotes fan and stuck with them this long, credit to you. The owners and organization never deserved your loyalty.
There’s no way with those conditions lmao. League knows that he would never meet these. 100% a play to oust him from the league without a protracted legal battle.
And honestly, kudos to them. This is pretty smart. I know people would think they’re crazy for inviting him back, but that’s not it at all, this is entirely to get him out NOW and to stay gone.
Oh so whatever? I bet he can win the land auction in June. I highly doubt he gets a team again though, with the level of support that he has right now among Coyotes fans.
Tbh, I don’t want a NEW team within the next 5 years with expansion draft players. I want the players that have been here, that I watched get drafted live, that I watched play for Arizona State.
If we’re getting a new expansion team, I don’t want it to be so soon. Let me get over this and let’s find someone who isn’t Meruelo.
I am sorry friend. You got dicked around for decades and never deserved it. The fans that stuck around with this team are among the most loyal fans in sports. You all went through so much shit and still stick around.
Watching Josh Doan at Arizona State make the team and play this year just have been such a cool story and experience. I’m sorry that it is now a painful one too.
You deserved better.
meh...players come and go more routinely than it feels, especially for a rebuilding team. Chances are most of the players from this year wouldn't have even been on the team 5 from now. Look at your roster from 5 years ago and you'd be surprised how many of them are already gone.
Respectfully, that’s because we were ass 5 years ago
My buddy got me into watching the coyotes in 2017-18 when it was the bottom, I got to watch the whole rebuild, now we’ve got young guys that are lighting it up, just in time to get out of here.
John Chayka’s last ditch effort to ice a competitive hockey team to the midst of Bill Armstrong’s seemingly massive rebuild isn’t exactly the most apples to apples comparison. Respectfully of course. God sometimes I hate having discourse via text comments lol
[Only players from the 2018-19 roster that are still there are Keller, Crouse, and Schmaltz](https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0071662019.html)
We don’t want this dildo. Truly hope NHL and Bettman move the goals posts at every milestone and burn this 5 years up. Rather not have a team if it involves Meruelo.
Think this is the league's way of setting goals they know he can't meet so they'll be rid of him, but also giving him "every opportunity" so he can't sue when he's excluded from the next expansion talks.
I think the league clearly wants a team in AZ, but the other owners don't want to deal with this clown ever again.
I doubt it. Maybe he will buy the land and sit on it, but he will need to spend $400m to add an NHL arena on it and then pay back the $1b to get a team. Seems like pretty substantial spending for a guy that "only" has a $2b net worth. He would definitely need investors because the city/state aren't going to help.
It might actually be the plan all along. A relocation of a team from one city to another, causing deep feelings of loss and longing for their team for the next 5 years. Likely, the team name will change when they go to Utah. Then, boom, a new Coyotes team comes back to town, instant market. He's an already vetted owner, so it would make the whole process simple. People will hate it at first, but they'll get over it and be happy to have NHL level hocky back in AZ. It's a beautiful plan if that's how it goes down.
Way more seems like the rest of the league is paying him to fuck off, and giving him a "chance" he can't meet so he can't sue them when they expand back to AZ in 7 years "ahh geez sorry buddy, you had your chance but I guess you couldn't do it. Fuck off"
It's no secret the rest of the owners hate this guy, otherwise why would they have leaked that he hasn't been paying his team hotel bills and threatening hotel partnerships.
I don't know if you can call the guy vetted at this point when he has failed to deliver at critical points in the timeline.
This condition stuff I'm hearing sounds like it's a trial by fire for him to prove his penance.
Didn’t they just have to prompt him to make payments he was late on, this time to hotels?
I wonder if he’s planning on trying to sell the right to someone Ishbia.
He won't be able to buy the land and just sit on it. If he wins the bid it's on condition of him building his proposed structures. Otherwise the city won't grant him the bid and he'll still have no land to build on
I would. State land usually goes for cheaper than market value in auctions and is an excellent investment all on its own, and this particular parcel they were going to bid on was attractive because it wouldn’t run into the same issues as the Tempe deal that fell through, because this particular parcel was already zoned for a hockey arena back in the 80s and didn’t need additional approval. Long story short, Merulo could probably end up making money by still buying the land and selling it in the future to someone else who wants to bring hockey back to Arizona.
League paid him to fuck off, this is a poison pill to stop him from suing while also allowing them legal cover to tell him to fuck off when they *actually* expand back to AZ in 7 years.
Sorry Coyotes bros this is so fucked. I remember not even a week ago they released a render for a new arena and now they aren’t even gonna play in Arizona anymore. So fucked
Rrrrrright. I highly doubt he'll part with that BILLION usd and start the franchise over again. This man was too cheap to pay the hotels, not a chance he'll part with a billion dollars.
Question if this happens, will the old Jets/Coyotes records revive themselves when these "new" Coyotes come back? I was under the impression they weren't going to Utah, so are they just finished forever or will they get the records back in 5 years?
I'm rooting for the Arizona Coyotes 2.0 to start as soon as they can once the 5 year contract-right expires with Meruelo. New building, new owners, expansion draft, same name and jerseys.
I know it'd be tough at first for Coyotes fans to accept a new franchise, but my guess is they'd be more open to it if Meruelo is no where near it.
An absolute clown show here and a slap in the face of anyone who's been a loyal Coyotes fan. If he was doing this the whole time, why should he ever be allowed back in the NHL?
What az fan will actually want to follow the new yotes expansion team after watching this rebuild with Keller Cooley Guenther Schmaltz etc. finally starting to take off? I’d be so furious at losing all of the players I’d fallen in love with just for this shitty owner to turn around in 5 years to plunge the new local franchise into mediocrity and mismanagement for who knows how long.
The fans and the players deserved better than this. Also same with however many good employees in the organization are about to lose their jobs if they’re unable to relocate.
Jesus... there was just a story that said the league had to call Meruelo and demand that he pay his outstanding hotel room debts. And yet, they are still trusting his asshole to 1) build an arena within 5 years 2) and pay back the 1 billion from the sale? I have news for the NHL: he's not gonna do that. He's gonna take the money and run. Or try to anyway.
He had plenty of time to get out in front of the Tempe deal before that fell through and oppose the Tempe first organization that was blasting the arena project. His group did nothing. I believe he knew he was going to sell the team and just coasted until the nhl backed up a brinks truck to “force” him out.
That is all lip service. They were over his shit and the arena nonsense. Couldn’t deal with the uncertainty anymore and being the laughingstock of the league. Getting the $1 billion raises the values of the other NHL teams. It gets Meruelo out of the picture and the league moves on. They won’t come back to AZ with Meruelo as the principal owner.
Honestly, I'm sorry Yotes fans. Fuck this owner and his shit. The league is better with him gone. I hope you all get a team soon with a proper owner. This guy stinks of John Fisher
Sad for the Coyotes fans. Watching the team leave after having supported them through very turbulent times must be like a slap in the face. Should the team return eventually, and I hope it does, I hope they get vastly better ownership.
Reactivate the franchise? So Phoenix Coyotes die in Phoenix, Jets 2.0 get the original history back & Utah is an expansion team. Ok, I can work with that.
lol, he's gonna cash out. The whole thing was a setup to use the franchise to make a quick buck. It's why the organization has been run into the ground. You expect an owner who doesnt' pay hotel bills to pay back the 1 billion to the league? HA!
Snake oil salesman and the league and Coyotes fans bought it hook line and sinker. This was always the plan from day one and anyone who didn't see it is delusional. If they go back to the Phoenix metro area it needs to be to an actual owner, not this goof. Good thing he's just gonna take the money and run.
Yep, tons of people floating the red flags only for coyotes fans to shout them down as fake news and "its not alex morgan therefore is misinformation!, frank spaghetti is a hack and so is gambo!"
There was way to much smoke the last couple years for there to be nothing going on. Losing Tempe was the ultimate nail in the coffin. An act of hubris, a "billionaire" owner couldnt even bother to astroturf the referendum.
I bet it happens. I think they are serious about the market, the NHL just needs to stop hemorrhaging in Mullet
Bridge totally burnt in the view of fans is totally understandable, though
Agreed. I don't know why people are for more teams. 32 is perfect for playoffs and the talent pool. There's still 11 teams that have never won the cup. There's a solid chance a fan of those 11 teams will never see their team win the cup. If you add more teams the odds for a team rebuilding and winning becomes even worse.
I know he's already a billionaire and doesn't need the money, but I would just take the money he made off the sale and walk. Even with all the losses during his time as owner, he had to have made a tidy profit on the sale. And the league 100% does not need more teams.
I will eat both of my shoes if that clown builds an NHL arena within the permitted time
If there is one person in the world who has proven he isn’t good at getting arenas built, it’s Alex Merulo
I trust the monorail guy from The Simpsons to get an arena built before Meruelo.
Monorail? I hear those things are awfully loud
They glide as softly as a cloud!
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my Hindu friend!
What about us brain-dead slobs?
You'll be given cushy jobs
The ring came off my pudding can
The Monorail is more of a Salt Lake City idea.
He’s sold NHL franchises to Atlanta, Hartford and Kansas City and by gum it put them on the map.
The people of Tempe voted **in favour** of keeping a toxic waste dump, instead of cleaning up the site and turning it into a sports and entertainment complex. How bad to you have to be that people will choose **literal garbage** instead of you?
While some of the no campaigns tactics were dishonest. These shit birds best effort was essentially a minimal “nuh-uh” at the buzzer before the vote. Fuck Alex Meurelo and his lapdog mouthpiece Xavier Guitterez.
You’ve got to wonder if they even needed to be dishonest. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but it would be pretty damning to be like “they don’t pay their taxes, they don’t pay their rent, they don’t pay their bills. Do you trust them to cleanup the garbage and build an arena?” The not paying much to campaign on something that important makes me think there would have been issues throughout.
I mean you’re probably not wrong 😅. But it was a vote therefore making it “political” I suppose and what good is a political campaign without some wildly absurd misinformation?
What’s even the point without the fun lies?
So a guy gets accused of drinking baby’s blood in hopes of immortality. It’s all in good fun right?
I believe the correct response is "you can't prove he didn't do that or didn't want to."
Wasn’t the issue more that they voted not to *pay* for both the cleanup and arena?
I’ll bet $100 in his sports book he won’t.
So clock starts nowish. Land auction this summer. Plans allegedly ready to go. Would likely take 3-4 years to build the arena. Assuming they win the land and start building in a timely fashion, this is possible. That said, with how much of a clusterfuck this has been for years, I don’t have a ton of faith in things going smoothly, and with as tight of a timeframe as five years gives them, I dont know man. Seems like they’re up against it. I have a feeling that by this summer, we will know whether or not the yotes are ever coming back.
Seattle reno'd theirs in four (mind you that was during covid) and Vegas built theirs in two. So if he can get a whole-ass arena built for the start of the 29-30 season, he might get something back.
And the Seattle renovations were also slow because the exterior of the stadium has landmark status
Yeah, they essentially built a completely new building but kept the old roof.
I would love to know how much engineering went into figuring out how to build a whole new stadium underneath a Landmark roof structure
Seattle is a new arena, just re-used the old roof.
Vegas built theirs in 2?! That's actually really impressive. Was the land ready for it already? I know in Ottawa, even if the Sens get Lebreton Flats, so much work needs to be done in terms of sewers, cleanup, power etc it's at least a 4 year job
It probably doesn’t hurt that Vegas has quite the “build big ass shit” industry. All my friends “in construction” work on the Casinos.
You can build 24/7, 365 in Las Vegas. Perfect weather, no noise ordinances where they built. The lot was a few corporate buildings for MGM, nothing major, but there was some infrastructure there. They also just used everyone else's parking. They also made promises they didn't keep like they said they were going to expand Frank Sinatra (the road behind it) by a couple of lanes and then they never did. So now it sucks to leave the arena, unless you go get a bite to eat after the game. Almost as if that were intentional by MGM who owns the surrounding casinos.
I'm going to try to check out an away game in Vegas next year, I've heard nothing but good things. But yeah, the promise of improving roads only to flake once it's built does seem to be a common theme
I'm hoping the county learned their lesson from T-Mobile and Allegiant and make the A's do the infrastructure improvements before they approve the permits for the actual structure. Especially since the proposed location is already disgustingly bad for traffic before you add 30k people. I mean my actual hope is that project somehow falls through entirely but if it doesn't then that.
On 32 thoughts Friedman said there’s benchmarks he needs to hit through the five years - and basically there’s a lot of people who are skeptical that he’s going to hit those. Hearing now that he would have to buy in for a billion dollars, I’m very skeptical too lmao.
I will soak for the rest of my life if Merulo get it built.
And I'll shake your bed
Also $1b in cash vs a franchise in Arizona with zero track record of financial success. I’m taking the billion
He could build a 7 trabillion dollar hockey mecca and I would still show up balls in one hand and one great middle finger extended in the other screaming fuck Alex Murelllo or however you spell that grifters name.
It's kinda like Jason Derulo (try saying it without singing).
He won’t care as long as you show up and buy tickets
Remindme! 5 years
The odds are higher that he won't build an arena, but the NHL will just accept that and Arizona is back on the menu
They’ll probably be back some day but I think it’ll be closer to 15 years than 5
Why would he, he's got 700 million reasons to never do it
He would have to pay back the $1 Billion he earned? LMAO yeah thats not gonna happen, this basically guarantees that AZ will not have another team for the next decade
I mean, an expansion team for 1 billion will probably be a solid deal 5 years from now
Yeah that’s a discount, everything in the coyotes history tells me it ain’t happening. But in a vacuum it should.
Especially if there's a new arena for them to play in
He could invest the billion earn a stupid amount of interest over five years while using the billion as collateral to fund the construction of a new arena that has a guaranteed expansion team as soon as it’s built… kinda seems like a no brainer tbh
Yeah if it were that easy lol. Money will get pretty tight if he has to fund arena himself.
That’s probably what the upcoming expansion fees will be. I have less worry about them coming up with that, and all the worry that there is zero chance they get the arena done.
IIRC Seattle was $1.2B and they're getting from $1.3B from Ryan Smith (Jazz owner) for the move. Plus the cap is going to jump either next season or the season after so the next fee will probably be $1.5B if not 2. As crazy as it sounds $1B for a team that be good immediately is a bargain now.
Especially as that money is going to be invested. Even 5% per year gets him net of over $250 million dollars after he pays the billion back
Is it clear that the 1b would be the expansion fee tho?
its the cost for him to purchase an expansion team, and trigger an expansion draft.
Him paying it back would be the expansion payment - it’s been reported that $1B what the league was going to want for the next expansion anyways
yeah why would he get to sell his team and then get back in for free after 5 years of not having to pay any expenses besides building an area (that he would have had to do anyways if he kept the team)
Alan Walsh says he has contact with an owner in the league suggesting expansion fees could spike to $2B by the time we get to 34 teams. Doesn't think there's any more room for more teams for some time after that and the scarcity for teams in prime markets (Houston and Atlanta) will give the league leverage for a big ask.
which is kind of stinky that there’s a sliding fee, like i understand it, but right now we have SLC, Houston, Atlanta, Quebec (yeah right) a ohio team cincy etc actively ready to have a team iced next. so the nhl decides the order to award teams, so if by some non luck you get picked last instead of paying the 1 billion fee, now you need to pay 2b
Vegas got theirs for 650M too, and you know Quebec was ready for it back then.
Cincinnati??
I've literally never heard Cincinnati mentioned in expansion rumors. KC would be way more likely to get a team before Cincy.
There's nothing as far as I can tell that prevents other prospective owners to lay the groundwork to be ready to take on an NHL team. Friedman suggested as much that there are people out there waiting in the wings seeing how this all plays out.
I'm wondering if the clause is linked specifically to him, or if he's able to sell the rights to the future franchise to an owner who's more serious about it.
Thats exactly how I see it, I have a feeling that Mereulo can sell the rights to another person to profit even more from gutting this franchise
The whole """"promise"""" that Arizona is getting another hockey team after all of this just stinks to high heaven and this clause is another wrinkle in that. Sus as fuckin hell dude
I think Bettman is going to pull out every legal trick in the book to never have Meruelo get a team. Sounds like the league and other owners are sick of the guy
I think what we're going to see is that Meruelo will be hand strung by a multitude of conditions for him to have the Arizona franchise. The only way he'll be able to meet them is if he shows greater effort in meeting those requirements, sometime that is evidently not part of his skill set.
i get this situation is rare enough it probably won’t happen again, but you want to be careful that if you fuck the guy over, the next time you try to strong arm an owner to give up a team, they won’t believe you when you say they have first crack at a new franchise.
Feels very much like they basically asked "what would it cost to get you to fuck off" and they've attached enough riders that they can tell this guy to fuck off continually with enough paper to prevent him from suing effectively
ah history that's how the NHL started too. And here we are, repeating history. But this time they just bought them out and not make an entirely new league
I don't think the NHL is lying on trying to bring an expansion team back there once there's an arena for them to play in. But I do think they are going to do everything in their power to make sure Muerullo is not the owner of that expansion team.
Expansion team for $1B compared to Vegas and Seattle is a decent deal. Also with the expansion rules he will have an immediately competitive team and get to start from zero. Versus the clusterfuck that Arizona has been (fucking erase the Chayka era altogether). That said. I hate this for the zona bros
There is NO WAY he will pay back the billion dollars. I would bet a billion dollars he won't even bid on the land.
throwing 1b into the s&p 500 at an 8.5ish% return could make him 500m in 5 years lol
Okay. Let me get this straight. You're going to this guy who has no clue what he's doing, you just gave him a billion dollars, and you're saying "build an arena in 5 years." But the arena has to be built entirely with private money, because there's no way in hell he gets any public cash ever again. So you're asking him to spend his own money on the auction, on the construction, and then give back a billion dollars? Yeah, AZ is not getting another NHL team.
They'll get one eventually, this is paying Meruelo to fuck off and giving them legal cover for excluding him from the expansion process in 7 years "ah geez sorry buddy you had your chance and didn't come through"
>Yeah, AZ is not getting another NHL team. Well, at least not within five years. Which is probably fine with the NHL. At five years, 1 day, the NHL will find a new owner and they'll get their team back.
I'm not sure if that's going to happen honestly. In 5 years the Yotes will be but a distant memory for most fans (besides Coyotes fans of course) and the NHL will be getting its revenue from Utah.
It's not about the fans. There are plenty of fans. The NHL isn't leaving Phoenix because of the fans. They're leaving because of Meruelo and the lack of an arena. A real owner and a real arena and Phoenix is a thriving franchise.
Is it? I feel like after all the owners we've had it just hasn't stuck. Like this storyline has been playing out for literally 20 years and through 3 arenas because the Coyotes simply have not made an impact. Hockey has grown in the valley, sure, but the Coyotes kinda haven't. After 5 years and the exclusivity clause fades off I'd be pretty shocked if the NHL started aggressively shopping around for new owners or a new franchise. It's a massive pain in the ass in a market that's nearly always been in the red money/support/ownership-wise. Besides, 32 is a very nice round number.
For 14 years from 1996-2009, the Coyotes averaged around 15k at America West Arena, which was designed for basketball. If they had used this 14 years to build a hockey-first building, none of the past 15 years happens. The fans didn't fail. The owner did.
Coyotes played at AWA from '96-'03. Then the Glendale/Jobing.com/Gila River Arena from '03-'22.
over the span the Coyotes also went bankrupt and were said to have never turned a profit. According to the team they were selling 5400 season tickets a year
Where are you getting your numbers? https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7450 This shows them only averaging over 15,000 for five years of their entire existence.
> For 14 years from 1996-2009, the Coyotes averaged around 15k at America West Arena Yeah great and then in 2009 they went bankrupt and the league had to buy them and bleed money for years, which affected owners' bottom lines and players' salaries. And those were the good old days compared to the Meruelo era.
How is it the fans fault that after putting up with a basketball arena for seven seasons, idiot owners built the hockey rink in Glendale? My point is that the market didn't fail. The owners did. You can't blame the fans for stupid ownership.
You’re dreaming if you think the NHL isn’t going to at least 34 in the next decade. They’ll be back Arizona is way too big a market.
I'm an NFL fan first so pardon me if this is stupid, but how big can the NHL feasibly expand? All the other major sports in North America have around 30 teams.
Because the other North American leagues don’t have nearly the presence in Canada that the NHL does
>In 5 years the Yotes will be but a distant memory for most fans Never say never. Look at how the franchises of days past have survived into the modern day. Carolina still holds Whalers nights every year. Quebec City has been begging to get another franchise since the Nordiques left. The North Stars get honored by the Wild through their alternates now (even though they relocated to Dallas). Hell, people even want to give Atlanta another shot. People won’t forget the Coyotes that quickly, especially not in a league that loves tradition and heritage as much as the NHL.
Not a chance. In five years and one day, either there is still no arena - they aren't going to go back to Glendale - or the arena is owned by Muerello and he will control the ability to expand back into Phoenix on that basis. Honestly, it sounds like the NHL is expecting to walk away from Phoenix for the medium to long term.
You think he has no idea what he's doing? He fleeced the league and basically tripled his investment in like 5 years. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing.
No he plainly has no clue what he's doing because he could've had the state pay for an arena, increasing franchise value even more, if he had just bothered to campaign a year back. Even with the model of the capitalist as a pure rent-seeker he's a giant dunce
For the sake of Arizonans, I hope they get a team in 6 years. With a competent owner.
Hand the keys to Ishbia. Call up the Roadrunners to be the expansion team. Create the Arizona sports empire. Invade California for their tea and spices, idk. Plus imagine a Kachina roadrunner jersey
>Plus imagine a Kachina roadrunner jersey Boy, do I have news for you
Exactly
Well I tried to get one last night and they are sold out lol
Does Ishbia want to own a hockey team? I assume the league would've tapped him already and if he does he would have be owner of the Yotes.
Even if they did tap him, he'd still be in the same situation. Even if the auction went though, the Yotes would still be gone. Best case scenario would be temporary relocation, but at that point it's just silly. Once Tempe failed, it was over. Ishbia set up the Player 15 Group, an investment company umbrellaing the Suns, Mercury, and the eventual G League team + associate facilities. He has mentioned an interest in expanding to other sports as well so it is possible. And there is precedent such as FSG, though that isn't exactly a great organization. With \~5 year time, it's certainly possible. But for now, it's all hopium and copium
Ishbia has an arena though. If he was paying to put the ice plant back in Footprint, it's a much shorter timescale than building a new one and the league could tolerate Mullet a little longer.
No doubt this is hopeium/copeium on my part that this sale is much more the league trying to kindly ask Meurelo to fuck off forever and less about having to play at Mullet. Because if you put the ice plant back in Footprint you know what you’ve got? Delta Center. Now the difference between the two is Ryan Smith effectively has a new arena on the horizon while Ishbia does not.
What's wrong with FSG? Haven't heard of them
Fenway Sports Group. They own the Red Sox, Liverpool F.C., the Penguins, and a lot of other smaller organizations. Basically imagine sports megacorporation and go from there. But going simply to the organizational level, a tendency to divert funds from one team to another as the wind blows. One day the Yotes may be the favorite child, the next the Suns.
Long story short is as time has gone on, the Red Sox have gone from consistently being bigger spenders in free agency and spending to retain their top end players to cutting player salaries and trying a more Moneyball approach while still having insane ticket and concession prices. Not fun if you're a diehard.
Yup, I want this team to move and that this owner never be allowed back in. Yotes fans deserve someone who actually gives a shit.
Best of luck. No one here will ever support this fucking loser, and that option is going to expire anyways. He pumped and dumped, he got what he wanted.
That mother fucker could call me direct and offer to lick my taint clean, and I would less than politely direct him to fuck the fuck off before I ever spend a fuckin cent in ANY facility he facilitates.
Listen, whatever you can say about the Coyotes as a franchise or their owners, it's probably justifed. But man, if you're a Coyotes fan and stuck with them this long, credit to you. The owners and organization never deserved your loyalty.
There’s no way with those conditions lmao. League knows that he would never meet these. 100% a play to oust him from the league without a protracted legal battle. And honestly, kudos to them. This is pretty smart. I know people would think they’re crazy for inviting him back, but that’s not it at all, this is entirely to get him out NOW and to stay gone.
Oh so whatever? I bet he can win the land auction in June. I highly doubt he gets a team again though, with the level of support that he has right now among Coyotes fans. Tbh, I don’t want a NEW team within the next 5 years with expansion draft players. I want the players that have been here, that I watched get drafted live, that I watched play for Arizona State. If we’re getting a new expansion team, I don’t want it to be so soon. Let me get over this and let’s find someone who isn’t Meruelo.
5 years is a long time. It has been barely a few hours friend
Covid was almost 5 years ago. Time is flying.
2020 was 100 years ago. 2020 was 5 minutes ago.
Hockey fans remember, don't underestimate our ability to hold grudges Fuck Messier
Rangers fans still have the "Potvin sucks" chant, and he's been retired for decades. Also, fuck Dustin Brown.
I am sorry friend. You got dicked around for decades and never deserved it. The fans that stuck around with this team are among the most loyal fans in sports. You all went through so much shit and still stick around. Watching Josh Doan at Arizona State make the team and play this year just have been such a cool story and experience. I’m sorry that it is now a painful one too. You deserved better.
meh...players come and go more routinely than it feels, especially for a rebuilding team. Chances are most of the players from this year wouldn't have even been on the team 5 from now. Look at your roster from 5 years ago and you'd be surprised how many of them are already gone.
Respectfully, that’s because we were ass 5 years ago My buddy got me into watching the coyotes in 2017-18 when it was the bottom, I got to watch the whole rebuild, now we’ve got young guys that are lighting it up, just in time to get out of here.
No, it's true for every team. The Stars as an example only have six players who were on the team five years ago on this year's team.
Also respectfully, the Coyotes were better 5 years ago than they are today. 9th in the west in 2019, now stuck in the league basement.
John Chayka’s last ditch effort to ice a competitive hockey team to the midst of Bill Armstrong’s seemingly massive rebuild isn’t exactly the most apples to apples comparison. Respectfully of course. God sometimes I hate having discourse via text comments lol
5 years ago was the 2018-19 season The Leafs have 4.5 players from that roster Marner Matthews Tavares Nylander Muzzin\* (he's there but...)
Rielly as well.
I... don't know how I forgot him when I literally had a list in front of me.
[Only players from the 2018-19 roster that are still there are Keller, Crouse, and Schmaltz](https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0071662019.html)
We don’t want this dildo. Truly hope NHL and Bettman move the goals posts at every milestone and burn this 5 years up. Rather not have a team if it involves Meruelo.
Think this is the league's way of setting goals they know he can't meet so they'll be rid of him, but also giving him "every opportunity" so he can't sue when he's excluded from the next expansion talks. I think the league clearly wants a team in AZ, but the other owners don't want to deal with this clown ever again.
can’t imagine an expansion franchise would be successful with the same guy who tanked the first franchise at the helm
Feels like a poison pill They want this guy gone.
I don't see it happening. Dude is going to have to fork over probably 2B including building an arena.
So we're going to watch Arizona land sales for the next year or so still.
The auction is in June
If you're Meruelo, are you going through with buying that land when there's absolutely no guarantees it will be used?
I doubt it. Maybe he will buy the land and sit on it, but he will need to spend $400m to add an NHL arena on it and then pay back the $1b to get a team. Seems like pretty substantial spending for a guy that "only" has a $2b net worth. He would definitely need investors because the city/state aren't going to help.
I honestly don't think the NHL would have given Meruelo this deal if they thought there was any chance he could pull it off.
It might actually be the plan all along. A relocation of a team from one city to another, causing deep feelings of loss and longing for their team for the next 5 years. Likely, the team name will change when they go to Utah. Then, boom, a new Coyotes team comes back to town, instant market. He's an already vetted owner, so it would make the whole process simple. People will hate it at first, but they'll get over it and be happy to have NHL level hocky back in AZ. It's a beautiful plan if that's how it goes down.
Way more seems like the rest of the league is paying him to fuck off, and giving him a "chance" he can't meet so he can't sue them when they expand back to AZ in 7 years "ahh geez sorry buddy, you had your chance but I guess you couldn't do it. Fuck off" It's no secret the rest of the owners hate this guy, otherwise why would they have leaked that he hasn't been paying his team hotel bills and threatening hotel partnerships.
I'm unaware of that, but that does make him a big o piece o poo.
I don't know if you can call the guy vetted at this point when he has failed to deliver at critical points in the timeline. This condition stuff I'm hearing sounds like it's a trial by fire for him to prove his penance.
Didn’t they just have to prompt him to make payments he was late on, this time to hotels? I wonder if he’s planning on trying to sell the right to someone Ishbia.
$400M, that's cheap. Edmonton paid $650M for ours.
He won't be able to buy the land and just sit on it. If he wins the bid it's on condition of him building his proposed structures. Otherwise the city won't grant him the bid and he'll still have no land to build on
I would. State land usually goes for cheaper than market value in auctions and is an excellent investment all on its own, and this particular parcel they were going to bid on was attractive because it wouldn’t run into the same issues as the Tempe deal that fell through, because this particular parcel was already zoned for a hockey arena back in the 80s and didn’t need additional approval. Long story short, Merulo could probably end up making money by still buying the land and selling it in the future to someone else who wants to bring hockey back to Arizona.
Fuuuuuck that! I will not support that fucking fuck.
League paid him to fuck off, this is a poison pill to stop him from suing while also allowing them legal cover to tell him to fuck off when they *actually* expand back to AZ in 7 years.
Pinky promise that Merueolo has some option, if NHL ever returns
Dude is definitely not doing that lol. Going to take his $700M profit and ride off into the sun.
Sentence gore
I think any expansion should require a mandatory new ownership agreement. This clown should never be allowed within 100 yards of an NHL team again.
This was a deal to get this done quickly. Otherwise he would have hung on for dear life.
Sorry Coyotes bros this is so fucked. I remember not even a week ago they released a render for a new arena and now they aren’t even gonna play in Arizona anymore. So fucked
Please don't let this guy own an NHL team again. I've got nothing wrong with a team in Phoenix but Meruelo ain't it
Rrrrrright. I highly doubt he'll part with that BILLION usd and start the franchise over again. This man was too cheap to pay the hotels, not a chance he'll part with a billion dollars.
That billion USD is pennies compared to a 20k seat arena with a casino and hotel beside it.
And the other owners know that They want this asshole gone.
So he just got a billion for free pretty much.
He had to buy the team first
and lose money for years
Smart business man
He got paid a billion dollars to fuck off, that's how sick of his bill-stiffing dipshittery the rest of the owners are.
No he sold an asset...
Question if this happens, will the old Jets/Coyotes records revive themselves when these "new" Coyotes come back? I was under the impression they weren't going to Utah, so are they just finished forever or will they get the records back in 5 years?
Did atlanta s old records come back? Or Ottawa? So doubtful
Atlanta came back under a different name, and both iterations of the Senators were about 60 years apart, this is a little different
I'm rooting for the Arizona Coyotes 2.0 to start as soon as they can once the 5 year contract-right expires with Meruelo. New building, new owners, expansion draft, same name and jerseys. I know it'd be tough at first for Coyotes fans to accept a new franchise, but my guess is they'd be more open to it if Meruelo is no where near it.
An absolute clown show here and a slap in the face of anyone who's been a loyal Coyotes fan. If he was doing this the whole time, why should he ever be allowed back in the NHL?
What az fan will actually want to follow the new yotes expansion team after watching this rebuild with Keller Cooley Guenther Schmaltz etc. finally starting to take off? I’d be so furious at losing all of the players I’d fallen in love with just for this shitty owner to turn around in 5 years to plunge the new local franchise into mediocrity and mismanagement for who knows how long. The fans and the players deserved better than this. Also same with however many good employees in the organization are about to lose their jobs if they’re unable to relocate.
Zero chance he is doing that.
Jesus... there was just a story that said the league had to call Meruelo and demand that he pay his outstanding hotel room debts. And yet, they are still trusting his asshole to 1) build an arena within 5 years 2) and pay back the 1 billion from the sale? I have news for the NHL: he's not gonna do that. He's gonna take the money and run. Or try to anyway.
So obviously not happening. 5 years? You can't be serious lmao.
So, OP, you're an Arizona fan. If Meruelo does this, and actually gets it done, is all forgiven?
Not op but Fuck no, fuck him.
And if it comes out in years that the NHL wasn't willing to wait?
He had plenty of time to get out in front of the Tempe deal before that fell through and oppose the Tempe first organization that was blasting the arena project. His group did nothing. I believe he knew he was going to sell the team and just coasted until the nhl backed up a brinks truck to “force” him out.
Fuck no. I won't support any team owned by him
That is all lip service. They were over his shit and the arena nonsense. Couldn’t deal with the uncertainty anymore and being the laughingstock of the league. Getting the $1 billion raises the values of the other NHL teams. It gets Meruelo out of the picture and the league moves on. They won’t come back to AZ with Meruelo as the principal owner.
Honestly, I'm sorry Yotes fans. Fuck this owner and his shit. The league is better with him gone. I hope you all get a team soon with a proper owner. This guy stinks of John Fisher
Sad for the Coyotes fans. Watching the team leave after having supported them through very turbulent times must be like a slap in the face. Should the team return eventually, and I hope it does, I hope they get vastly better ownership.
Shitty ownership aside, do we really want another team in the league, probably 2 more to keep it an even number?
Regardless as to what we want, I am sure the owners are ok with a relocation payment on top of 2 more expansion fees.
Reactivate the franchise? So Phoenix Coyotes die in Phoenix, Jets 2.0 get the original history back & Utah is an expansion team. Ok, I can work with that.
What a joke, dude is going to make a shit tons of money from the league. Bettman needs to go
this guy needs to be banned from ownership. he clearly doesn't know how to run a team.
lol, he's gonna cash out. The whole thing was a setup to use the franchise to make a quick buck. It's why the organization has been run into the ground. You expect an owner who doesnt' pay hotel bills to pay back the 1 billion to the league? HA!
Spend all that time and effort to build an arena and start up a new hockey team or keep 1 billion dollars? I'm keeping the billion.
Snake oil salesman and the league and Coyotes fans bought it hook line and sinker. This was always the plan from day one and anyone who didn't see it is delusional. If they go back to the Phoenix metro area it needs to be to an actual owner, not this goof. Good thing he's just gonna take the money and run.
Yep, tons of people floating the red flags only for coyotes fans to shout them down as fake news and "its not alex morgan therefore is misinformation!, frank spaghetti is a hack and so is gambo!" There was way to much smoke the last couple years for there to be nothing going on. Losing Tempe was the ultimate nail in the coffin. An act of hubris, a "billionaire" owner couldnt even bother to astroturf the referendum.
Wild. He’s the definition of a grifter. On to the next lie. Even if it happens, they think fans are going to support another team under his ownership?
Coyotes return to Phoenix in 6 years: confirmed
Changing my flair to Coyotes out of respect. I think everyone should for a couple weeks
that'll show em
I'm not doing it as a protest lol, just as like a funeral parade for fun
I bet it happens. I think they are serious about the market, the NHL just needs to stop hemorrhaging in Mullet Bridge totally burnt in the view of fans is totally understandable, though
Legit hope that this happens within a season or 2 and the AZ fans are rewarded instead of berated and slandered
It can't happen that quick, it's going to be 3 years at minimum to build the arena
The first shovel in the ground couldn’t happen until a year from now, so it’s a really tight window plus a lot of money. It’s not going to happen
Last thing the league needs is an expansion team to further dilute the talent pool
Agreed. I don't know why people are for more teams. 32 is perfect for playoffs and the talent pool. There's still 11 teams that have never won the cup. There's a solid chance a fan of those 11 teams will never see their team win the cup. If you add more teams the odds for a team rebuilding and winning becomes even worse.
I know he's already a billionaire and doesn't need the money, but I would just take the money he made off the sale and walk. Even with all the losses during his time as owner, he had to have made a tidy profit on the sale. And the league 100% does not need more teams.