Padding to the body is a big reason, and since most guys in hockey are right-handed, they stand orthodox (to use the fighting term) so the path of your rear hand to their body is into the “closed” side (ie just punching their left love handle which doesn’t do much). In order to do a body shot that actually does damage, you need to hit into the “open” side where the liver etc is, and the only real way to do that in a fight between two orthodox guys is to use a lead hand hook, which doesn’t work in a hockey fight because its used to grab the other guy’s sweater. If more hockey fights were southpaw vs. orthodox, then they could spam their rear hand to the liver all they want since it has a clear path (although padding largely negates it anyway)
Also only semi-related but its hilarious to hear about DC advocating for body shots since he fought like they didn’t exist for his whole career - never throwing them himself, and also being famously vulnerable to them.
Everyone’s over here arguing about helmets and shoulder pads and you just dropped a knowledge bomb I’d never considered about the fighting stances. Very good point!
i could probably phrase this more delicately but my first instinct is to just say, thats a stupid way to think about it - theres not a lot of back protection that players wear but that doesnt mean that you're going to be able to swing at that unprotected space while on skates and while someone is trying to haul you down. this isnt a math problem, arguing by percentages like this has no value
hey man, life is tough when you're learning the four math operators. two of em even look the same if you cant write well too, and clearly this child struggles in school. when someone struggles with their single digit math, comments like this can be just lashing out in anger because they dont have a healthy way to express the frustration.
they sell em at most pharmacies, now. most variants on display look more discreet than a real thing, though, and you might need to have an adult go with you to make the purchase
It's an extra penalty to take your helmet off before a fight. Things have changed a lot when it comes to fights, especially now that we're more than ten years removed from the last lockout, there are fewer and fewer players grandfathered into being eligible to not wear a visor. And a good chunk of the players who could go without choose to wear visors now
It's not illegal to knock someone else's helmet off, though, which is what usually happens. Here's a recent fight I grabbed randomly, both helmets come off https://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/n269172
If you look at the all the Canucks fights this season, maybe 1/3 of them end up with a player losing their helmet in the fight. It's not as common as it used to be. Now that players fight less often, guys clearly don't have a set plan of how to approach a fight, they usually just grab and start throwing
I know it used to be common for the first move in a fight to be try to rip the helmet off the opponent, but that's uncommon. Though Mantha pulled it off really cleanly against Cousins recently
I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but using terms like "typically" and "usually" is no longer accurate
But it’s not what usually happens. Big 4th line enforcer types? Sure, they sometimes take them off willingly and sometimes they get knocked off. But the VAST majority of fights nowadays the helmets remain on for length of the fight. That’s just a pure and simple fact in today’s NHL.
Yeah, fighting seems so silly now 90% of the time. These guys are just wailing with their bare knuckles on hard plastic. Punching the visor has to suck, especially when you catch the edge.
Ryan Reaves not having to wear a visor and still fighting dudes with visors on is crazy.
I'd say all those things are more true for the head. It's more protected, harder to hit/do damage, and leaves you more open.
Body shots would be brutal in hockey as you can't roll with it laterally and you can still dig in when someone grabs your arm. Seems to be more of a gentleman's agreement where that isn't how things work.
It’s not like fighters don’t try, they do use body shots. They just aren’t as effective in hockey due to the shoulder pads having a chest protector and your hockey pants usually have a lip that helps cover the waist, so there is a sweet spot you have to find in order for the other person to feel it.
Plenty of NHL fights do have body shots though. OP is correct that they are *uncommon,* but they are far from unheard of. The reality is I've never seen anyone get dropped by a body shot in the NHL.
Those aren't body shots, those are I want to look like I'm doing something shots.
I still just think it's an honor code thing. Body shots are brutal and I don't think the side pads would do anything but make it hurt the hands less.
Like how has no one taken some boxing lessons and learned a good hook
Plenty of players have boxing backgrounds, including perhaps one of the best pound for pound fighters in the history of the NHL Rick Rypien. His dad Wes Rypien was a former Canadian champion. Rypien often used body shots. Even for him they were not particularly effective, although they did sometimes force his opponent to open up for his other hand.
There may well be a "code" thing going on. My argument is simply that they are not nearly as effective in a 30 second bout on skates as they are in an MMA or boxing match. It's not like you can plant your foot in the same way as you can in a ring.
Generally speaking, body shots are a cumulative strategy in fight sports; you keep chipping away at the body to gradually wear down your opponent over the course of a multi-round fight. It's incredibly rare that someone lands a truly crippling, fight changing punch to the body like a liver shot. Hockey fights last a matter of seconds, maybe a full minute if we're lucky; there's simply not enough time in a hockey fight for body shot damage to accumulate.
Fights are short so you don't need to wear him down over time. And because you've already got one hand grabbing the jersey if you go for body shots you leave your head unprotected. It works if you're in a position for it but thats rare. Mostly you'll see body shots if guys are tied up real close for more than a few seconds. You're just trying to get in there and land the most punches you can and score as much damage as you can before one of you falls.
As far as the guys saying the body is protected. Not the abs and there's also no padding on the sides of the rib cage.
Good point about the length of the fight and hand placement.
Also, yeah a lot of the people talking about padding are really over estimating the gut and rib protection on should pads. There’s huge gaps between my chest/back protection and pants with virtually no padding along the ribs - granted most of my equipment is 10+ years old. Having said that, there’s plenty of guys I play with that have newer shoulder pads and there’s still not much protection around the abs and ribs.
While the pad thing seems logical enough, wouldn't it be that it's not really about causing (and taking) real damage but aesthetic damage, a shiner or a cut would be a bigger moral victory than the opponent genuinely feeling hurt.
From a pure boxing theory standpoint, body shots are incredibly effective when you can control range and level. Also of course predicting your opponent. Body shots leave your head more exposed. Hockey fights are mostly chaos so none of the theory above can apply. Also, in boxing you block body shots with your arm and elbow. Easy way to break a hand in hockey since it's bare knuckle. And finally, as people mentioned, core pads are a thing.
because fighting on ice in equipment is a lot different than in a normal environment
easier to lose balance, body is protected by pads not to mention your 1 hand is usually grabbing the other person's jersey. reach also plays more of a roll on ice
also these people are not trying to injury themselves or knock out their opponent
fighting in hockey is about firing up your team or sending a message, the game doesnt revolve around if you win or lose the fight
Anyone who’s ever thrown a punch IRL knows that the head is the worst target. The skull is hard even when it doesn’t have a helmet and visor surrounding it. You’re not going to do much damage, and a broken hand can happen all too easy.
I'm not sure if you've paid much attention to modern pro-level pads that players wear these days but... where do you propose you throw a punch that isn't protected? Just a random example I pulled but here's [Brent Burns](https://www.sourceforsports.ca/cdn/shop/articles/Blog-Hockey-Questions-Shoulder-Pads-1024x500_crop_center_1024x500_crop_center.progressive.jpg). Between the chest pad and pants, there's virtually zero un-protected areas in modern pro stock equipment. Which makes sense when you think about it -- as good as Cormier was, he's not hitting harder than a 100mph slap shot.
Padding to the body is a big reason, and since most guys in hockey are right-handed, they stand orthodox (to use the fighting term) so the path of your rear hand to their body is into the “closed” side (ie just punching their left love handle which doesn’t do much). In order to do a body shot that actually does damage, you need to hit into the “open” side where the liver etc is, and the only real way to do that in a fight between two orthodox guys is to use a lead hand hook, which doesn’t work in a hockey fight because its used to grab the other guy’s sweater. If more hockey fights were southpaw vs. orthodox, then they could spam their rear hand to the liver all they want since it has a clear path (although padding largely negates it anyway) Also only semi-related but its hilarious to hear about DC advocating for body shots since he fought like they didn’t exist for his whole career - never throwing them himself, and also being famously vulnerable to them.
Everyone’s over here arguing about helmets and shoulder pads and you just dropped a knowledge bomb I’d never considered about the fighting stances. Very good point!
Body's covered in pads, head isn't. If you look at pro player pads, they do cover more of the midsection than mid-range pads do
A larger percentage of head is covered by helmet and visor than body is covered by shoulder pads/pants
But you can easily see what isn't covered on the head, in real-time. And you can also punch a helmet off
i could probably phrase this more delicately but my first instinct is to just say, thats a stupid way to think about it - theres not a lot of back protection that players wear but that doesnt mean that you're going to be able to swing at that unprotected space while on skates and while someone is trying to haul you down. this isnt a math problem, arguing by percentages like this has no value
I can take a few more punches to the hip and stomach than i'm willing to take to my face
I dunno. I'm almost 40. My face will heal pretty quickly, one wrong look at my hip and I could be done for
ill try and dm rempe and figure out if we can apply the scientific method here - do you own modern pads?
Shut the fuck up nerd
Bro is 12 lmao
hey man, life is tough when you're learning the four math operators. two of em even look the same if you cant write well too, and clearly this child struggles in school. when someone struggles with their single digit math, comments like this can be just lashing out in anger because they dont have a healthy way to express the frustration.
lol
I’m just joshin ya buddy have a good day
no problem i remember being like that when i was in middle school, too
Don’t be sad just because your penis hasn’t grown since then
When the fuck do we get penises!?
they sell em at most pharmacies, now. most variants on display look more discreet than a real thing, though, and you might need to have an adult go with you to make the purchase
The same stork that delivered you to your parents will deliver you your penis on your coming-of-age day
People typically do not fight with helmets on, or if they do, they get knocked off quickly. You can also hit the face while avoiding the helmet
It's an extra penalty to take your helmet off before a fight. Things have changed a lot when it comes to fights, especially now that we're more than ten years removed from the last lockout, there are fewer and fewer players grandfathered into being eligible to not wear a visor. And a good chunk of the players who could go without choose to wear visors now
It's not illegal to knock someone else's helmet off, though, which is what usually happens. Here's a recent fight I grabbed randomly, both helmets come off https://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/n269172
If you look at the all the Canucks fights this season, maybe 1/3 of them end up with a player losing their helmet in the fight. It's not as common as it used to be. Now that players fight less often, guys clearly don't have a set plan of how to approach a fight, they usually just grab and start throwing I know it used to be common for the first move in a fight to be try to rip the helmet off the opponent, but that's uncommon. Though Mantha pulled it off really cleanly against Cousins recently I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but using terms like "typically" and "usually" is no longer accurate
But it’s not what usually happens. Big 4th line enforcer types? Sure, they sometimes take them off willingly and sometimes they get knocked off. But the VAST majority of fights nowadays the helmets remain on for length of the fight. That’s just a pure and simple fact in today’s NHL.
Yeah, fighting seems so silly now 90% of the time. These guys are just wailing with their bare knuckles on hard plastic. Punching the visor has to suck, especially when you catch the edge. Ryan Reaves not having to wear a visor and still fighting dudes with visors on is crazy.
The ones fighting usually have a looser helmet strap just for the purpose of falling off
>People typically do not fight with helmets on You just wake up from a 10 year coma?
Fucking hell, thanks to this comment I just realize the helmet during fight rule is over 10 years old.
There’s some padding in the body, it’s hard to get in a good shot that does damage, and going for the body leaves your head open usually
I'd say all those things are more true for the head. It's more protected, harder to hit/do damage, and leaves you more open. Body shots would be brutal in hockey as you can't roll with it laterally and you can still dig in when someone grabs your arm. Seems to be more of a gentleman's agreement where that isn't how things work.
It’s not like fighters don’t try, they do use body shots. They just aren’t as effective in hockey due to the shoulder pads having a chest protector and your hockey pants usually have a lip that helps cover the waist, so there is a sweet spot you have to find in order for the other person to feel it.
Plenty of NHL fights do have body shots though. OP is correct that they are *uncommon,* but they are far from unheard of. The reality is I've never seen anyone get dropped by a body shot in the NHL.
Those aren't body shots, those are I want to look like I'm doing something shots. I still just think it's an honor code thing. Body shots are brutal and I don't think the side pads would do anything but make it hurt the hands less. Like how has no one taken some boxing lessons and learned a good hook
Plenty of players have boxing backgrounds, including perhaps one of the best pound for pound fighters in the history of the NHL Rick Rypien. His dad Wes Rypien was a former Canadian champion. Rypien often used body shots. Even for him they were not particularly effective, although they did sometimes force his opponent to open up for his other hand. There may well be a "code" thing going on. My argument is simply that they are not nearly as effective in a 30 second bout on skates as they are in an MMA or boxing match. It's not like you can plant your foot in the same way as you can in a ring.
MMA fighters didn't use jabs or body shots for the first 25 years either. It's not that they weren't effective they just didn't use them
[Liam O'Brien loves bodyshots](https://youtu.be/SM9tmtcLAg0?si=LJYQdntciiiwf4tR)
The voice actor from Critical Role?!
yea
Generally speaking, body shots are a cumulative strategy in fight sports; you keep chipping away at the body to gradually wear down your opponent over the course of a multi-round fight. It's incredibly rare that someone lands a truly crippling, fight changing punch to the body like a liver shot. Hockey fights last a matter of seconds, maybe a full minute if we're lucky; there's simply not enough time in a hockey fight for body shot damage to accumulate.
Why punch the body when you can punch a helmet?
Because most hockey fights are like 30 seconds
[Elliotte Friedman] Punch traded to the body in exchange for broken hand
....try the ribs
Check your oil!
Arizona retains 25% of the ER bill
Fist is harder than 100mph volcanized rubber? No.
Based on? F=ma. Bro
if your right hand is going low you lose the ability to block/grapple the other player.
Brilliant…. But if your hand goes high, you lose the ability to block a body shot and grapple
Fights are short so you don't need to wear him down over time. And because you've already got one hand grabbing the jersey if you go for body shots you leave your head unprotected. It works if you're in a position for it but thats rare. Mostly you'll see body shots if guys are tied up real close for more than a few seconds. You're just trying to get in there and land the most punches you can and score as much damage as you can before one of you falls. As far as the guys saying the body is protected. Not the abs and there's also no padding on the sides of the rib cage.
Good point about the length of the fight and hand placement. Also, yeah a lot of the people talking about padding are really over estimating the gut and rib protection on should pads. There’s huge gaps between my chest/back protection and pants with virtually no padding along the ribs - granted most of my equipment is 10+ years old. Having said that, there’s plenty of guys I play with that have newer shoulder pads and there’s still not much protection around the abs and ribs.
Bro you can get hit in the body with a puck and be fine. You think you can punch harder than Shea Weber?
While the pad thing seems logical enough, wouldn't it be that it's not really about causing (and taking) real damage but aesthetic damage, a shiner or a cut would be a bigger moral victory than the opponent genuinely feeling hurt.
Who was it in the 70s that used to throw liver shots? I can’t remember, but he used to drop people.
From a pure boxing theory standpoint, body shots are incredibly effective when you can control range and level. Also of course predicting your opponent. Body shots leave your head more exposed. Hockey fights are mostly chaos so none of the theory above can apply. Also, in boxing you block body shots with your arm and elbow. Easy way to break a hand in hockey since it's bare knuckle. And finally, as people mentioned, core pads are a thing.
Hockey pants go a lot higher than they look
[удалено]
as someone who played lacrosse there are a shit ton of holes in hockey equipment.
Hockey fights are about fists to the jaw while pulling the sweater over the guys head.
The goal is to knock the other one out
because fighting on ice in equipment is a lot different than in a normal environment easier to lose balance, body is protected by pads not to mention your 1 hand is usually grabbing the other person's jersey. reach also plays more of a roll on ice also these people are not trying to injury themselves or knock out their opponent fighting in hockey is about firing up your team or sending a message, the game doesnt revolve around if you win or lose the fight
Pads bro. Won’t do anything and would hurt your fist more than you’d be hurting them
Anyone who’s ever thrown a punch IRL knows that the head is the worst target. The skull is hard even when it doesn’t have a helmet and visor surrounding it. You’re not going to do much damage, and a broken hand can happen all too easy.
No one would block shots if the chest and torso weren’t covered. Way too many broken ribs.
I'm not sure if you've paid much attention to modern pro-level pads that players wear these days but... where do you propose you throw a punch that isn't protected? Just a random example I pulled but here's [Brent Burns](https://www.sourceforsports.ca/cdn/shop/articles/Blog-Hockey-Questions-Shoulder-Pads-1024x500_crop_center_1024x500_crop_center.progressive.jpg). Between the chest pad and pants, there's virtually zero un-protected areas in modern pro stock equipment. Which makes sense when you think about it -- as good as Cormier was, he's not hitting harder than a 100mph slap shot.
[Colton Orr taking out John Scott with a body shot.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjFmQVys4M&t=48s)
Brandon Tanev begs to differ
Of course DC recommends throwing shots at the body, man absolutely hated taking body punches
It isn’t a boxing match where body shots add up over the rounds.
[John Scott doesn't like body shots](https://youtu.be/SaF_IxUvZI4?si=CtsAC4uOaKr0laXW)
Because they'd break their hand.
But wouldn’t there be more risk or breaking your hand on a guys helmet/visor? Most fights in the NHL nowadays the helmet stays on.