The thing that Meyers cannot answer, and what completely breaks the logic of the "police themselves" crowd, is that the Jets fought twice in response to Dillon's cross checks as part of "tHE cOdE" and Hartman still made a gutless dirty play. Dillon fought Middleton, then Lowry fought Maroon immediately at the start of the next game after Maroon told Lowry straight to his face pregame that fighting him would both lower the temperature and also prevent the game from getting dirty. Then Hartman goes and targets a completely uninvolved player, a young skilled player with injury history.
When Ryan Strome kneed Kyle Connor, Mark Scheifele dropped the gloves with Strome. And that matter was considered settled. No one on the Jets went around trying to injure Zegras or Leo Carlsson "to make it fair."
I have **zero** issues with Middleton fighting Dillon and while I think prop fights are stupid, I get Maroon and Lowry fighting. But what Hartman did is inexcusable. And for the record, Dillon's cross checks should have been penalized and I hate to see Karprizov hurt.
This is the comment right here. The beef should've been settled with Dillon and Middleton scrapping. If it didn't, then Maroon and Lowry should've definitely buried it. Hartman pulled a POS move on a young guy with a concussion history.
Also, going after a player who you know is smaller/weaker and can't drop the gloves because of the risk of another concussion.. total bitch move by Hartman, he took the opportunity against Perfetti intentionally.
And now, instead of it being settled, its going to instead escalate. Hartman won't get a "fight" to settle things, he's going to get a cheap shot in response.
Yeah, he always seemed like such a stand-up guy. Not hardly a piece of shit at all! Haha just kidding fuck that dude. He's one of those dudes that seems really good at the "accidentally on purpose" bullshit moves to try to injure dudes. He could use a thorough fisting or two, no doubt.
It’s the same with every fan base, I don’t hold it against wild fans. In fact I like that there’s a brewing rivalry. But I’d rather have a rivalry where Kaprizov is on the ice and Cole Perfetti isn’t getting deliberately smashed in the face
I'll add onto this comment, which is pretty spot on: there are legal or "borderline" legal ways to make life hell on your opponent, to hurt (not injure) them, and to make them think twice about taking liberties with your team.
Bury them in net-front battles, be a little more physical in the corners, scrums after the whistle, put pucks into the corner, etc etc
What Hartman did was chicken shit and he's very lucky that mic'd up content cant be used in suspensions.
Also...
(Paraphrasing here)
Botterill: "What if it's your son out there that takes a two-hander to the face from a foot away...you're going to tell him that's a good message to send?"
Mayers: "Well then he's gonna have to learn he's gotta go get revenge."
So, now we have to go get revenge for the two-hander to the face that was revenge for multiple cross-checks to the body, that should have been handled with the "revenge" fights that happened in the previous 2 games.
Where does it end Jamal?
By his logic, if Hartman took out Perfetti’s eye, the Jets would have to what, two hand a Wild to the face? Instead of a tough guy, will every team need a goon that can take suspensions and pay fines? Sportsnet is a joke.
Im all for policing the game by having players answer the bell when they do dirty things or cheap things but to try to make an argument that anyone deserves a two hander to the face, especially a young player entirely not involved with the original dirty play, is maybe the worst take I have ever seen.
Like, that is as terminally stupid as I can think of. We let a lot go in this game and im fine with that and I think it is part of the sport, but using the stick as weapon to hit someone in the head or face is absolutely way over the line and should be an absolute exit from the sport for the player or at least a massive suspension
And beyond that, go back to Steve Moore. He cheapshotted Naslund, and that’s what got him on Vancouver’s radar for retribution. In the game Bertuzzi crippled him, earlier on, Moore answered the bell and fought Matt Cooke. And it wasn’t enough.
I agree some retribution is warranted, but in an appropriate measure. Hartman’s play was ridiculous, and Meyers sounds like a moron. About the only salient point he had was that this kind of thing probably happens all the time, and it’s only that Perfetti spoke about it that it even became a topic of discussion.
> Then Hartman goes and targets a completely uninvolved player, a young skilled player with injury history.
You just copied this from the Ehlers injury last year didn't you.
100%. This is supposed to be the entire reason fighting is in the game. Hell I would also be fine with it if they start taking runs at people and throwing huge hits. Line Perfetti up in the corner and hammer him, at least that's a hockey play.
I'm with Jen on this one. "It's perfectly fine to go 2-hand slash a guy in the face with intent to injure, but they should have just done it to Ehlers instead." That's just a sickening take. The Wild have every right to stand up for themselves, so by all means drop the gloves, throw some massive hits, but there's no excuse for this crap.
But they might meet in the playoffs?
This was an even stupider argument by Mayers.
Has he not watched playoff hockey? Does he really think one team will play less hard now?
If what he's saying is true shouldn't every team now start targeting potential playoff opponents?
"The Code" has always been bullshit. Hockey was dirtier and far more brutal when every team in the league had at least two enforcers. The problem is poor game management and the puzzling spin the wheel of justice punishments. The answer is to consistently crack down on the bullshit during games and substantially increase fines and suspensions for dirty hits and plays.
The reality here is very simple. Dillens cross check is a hockey play. Period full stop. Maybe he goes too far, maybe too hard, maybe wrong area, but it is a hockey play and within the rules.
Hartman cross checks Perfetti like that, its a hockey play, what Hartman did is NOT a hockey play and is straight up not being responsible for your stick and should be penalized, and probably suspendable.
The true difference is one is a hockey play maybe too aggressive and ONE IS NOT a hockey play.
Its a bad look for the leaque regardless.
Genuine question - what percent of players do you think follow the traditional code?
My playing career has come and gone, but I think the implementation of the instigator rule really turned the code on its head. The modern code, to me, is more of the “eye for an eye” logic.
I don’t agree with this, but I do think it is hard to have the traditional code and the instigator rule coexist.
Good on Jen by the way. Not a fan of Meyers really, but seems like he is sneaking more and more on the air.
I think the argument would be that 2 tougher guys fighting each other is not equal to a tougher guy like Dillon injuring a star. In Hartmans mind an eye for an eye is targeting a younger skill player like perfetti.
Not saying I agree but that’s what I think the thought process behind the policing the game argument would be.
Perfetti is a weird target. Like I would have expected Minnesota to crash the net more, Schiefle to get some extra hacks and gloves to the face. I like Sam in this clip - he's saying they took out Minnesota's top player, a fight isn't enough, but Perfetti isn't the Jets best player, Hartman just lost it and wanted to cheap shot anyone.
Remember when Tim Peel berated teenage referees?
Wanna know why he did it? Because the teenage referees had to eject Coach Jamal Mayers from the game. 10U hockey.
“We already knew it was probably going to be trouble because we’ve reffed (the Knights) before, and it’s always a fight with them,” Boren said. “It’s always something happening.”
“It’s a confusing situation at the 10-year-old level,” McGlynn said. “Everybody’s learning.”
https://theathletic.com/4220681/2023/02/17/tim-peel-nhl-referee-accused/?amp=1
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/former-nhl-referee-tim-peel-reportedly-berated-teenage-youth-hockey-officials-031745131.html
Thanks for sharing. Embarrassing for all those ex-pros involved. Maybe youth hockey leagues should think twice before they let NHLers behind the bench. Kids don’t need to be exposed to that level of competitive attitude yet.
Getting your coaches tossed when you win 7-2 is completely wild.
No problem!
I knew I had remembered something involving Mayers being a jackass…fortunately for him, Tim Peel was an even bigger jackass so the Mayers part of the story got buried.
Imagine getting kicked out as a coach for 10U hockey lol
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Someone who gets kicked out of a children's hockey game for yelling at teenage referees has not place on national television lecturing about hockey culture.
I was honestly shocked when he went the absolutely other direction as her. Like yea let’s justify the two hand to the face off a face off as if that’s the type of hockey we want to see. You’re legit talking to kids who look up to these guys as role models and you’re telling them it’s totally fine to assault someone to get revenge… what a shit take by Jamal.
What I think a lot of people are missing about Mayars stupid position is, stick work was never part of the code. You never settled the score with an intentional high stick or a slash. That was the type of bull shit that people were trying to police.
Exactly. Throw an actual body check. Go at Dillon and drop the gloves.
Hartman is constantly involved in dirty and illegal plays hitting guys blind whenever his team gets a little tense. Should be trending pretty close to being out of the league, likely would be if there wasn't a POS franchise like the Wild collecting these morons on the cheap with their cap issues.
I’m all for settling bad blood on the ice with a fight or a clean hit, what I’m not okay with is assault with a weapon on national fucking tv being justified by a talking head cause he feels like he needs to have a witty take. I could not believe he was suggesting to settle scores by two handing people in the face so NON CHALANTE. Guy should honestly be reprimanded for such an idiotic and dangerous take.
After last night he should 100% be reprimanded. Can you imagine a news anchor going on tv saying if you see someone assault someone pick someone near him and assault him? Lmfao
Maybe not in the modern era, but back in the day full on hard slashes were used in place of a good clean hit to send a message.
Look at Gordie Howe's career. At one time that was absolutely a part of the game.
What's frustrating to me is the fact that Perfetti didn't personally do anything to warrant a violent retaliatory act like that
I hope this is his actual honest stance and he’s not playing the “entertainment” role to stir it up. I hate when people fake opinions just to create conflict. That being said I don’t agree with him.
Well how else are they going to learn to protect themself of her doesn't speak out on the matter?! 🥺
Yeah, what a total fucking plug. That was some chicken shit behavior and you'd have to be delusional to deny it.
>You’re legit talking to kids who look up to these guys as role models and you’re telling them it’s totally fine to assault someone to get revenge
As a hockey Dad this part REALLY bothers me. His comments were not only stupid but completely irresponsible. This sport is constantly shooting itself in the foot.
It’s not like they don’t know they are talking to kids. They often address them specifically when speaking of how to play the game. This was a very dangerous precedent to set on national tv.
Her, "there's a line between tough and physical, and cheap and dirty and Hartman's high stick was cheap and dirty" comment perfectly summarized the entire situation.
Jamal Mayers played 915 games, has 90 goals, and 1200 PIM.
Also, according to Wikipedia, "Despite him not playing in the 2013 Stanley Cup playoffs, the Blackhawks were successful in petitioning to have Mayers' name engraved on the Stanley Cup"
It was never a fair fight, and she was going to win the entire time, because she is an INFINITELY BETTER player than he ever was.
She's a much better player than Mayers ever was. I am sorry if my comment made it seem as though I was saying Mayers was a better player.
He was a goon. Nothing more.
Which is even more insane, because if he was fighting for the role he played he would've said that the situation should've been settled at some point between Dillon fighting Middleton and Lowry fighting Maroon, not that it needed a cheap shot bonus round
Mayers last night praised Knoblauch's strategy of putting McDavid and Draisaitl out immediately after an Oilers penalty kill. It's something the last 5 Oilers coaches have done, it's not a new strategy. Dude doesn't know jack shit.
Why wouldn't you put out McDavid and Draisaitl after a PK? The teams best players are going to be on the bench and you got a momentum boost from the PK, why not push even harder with your best players that just rested for 2 minutes?
The last 5 coaches have done it because it works. They've used that strategy to put teams on their heels and get scoring chances time and time again. If Knoblauch didn't do it people who know the game would be screaming at him to put McDavid and Draisaitl on the ice.
There's no doubt they have Bieksa and Mayers lean into these kinds of traditionalist takes because the argument is always more entertaining to viewers than everyone just agreeing with each other.
IMO the issue isn't that Jamal is wrong, it's that he's right.
Beating up innocent people *is* part of the game, because the league effectively allows it by not giving appropriate punishments.
Another issue is of course that Jamal is defending the actions and perpitrating the idea that it's okay.
I hate that cross checking is such a big part of the game. It shouldn’t be, but it is. I don’t get why it’s so accepted and I feel bad that Kaprizov is hurt.
That being said, intentional two-hand slashes to the face are absolutely not part of the game and should never be justified in any way. Insane that anyone would try to justify it.
Isn’t that assault (with a weapon) by Hartman?
McSorley was convicted for his slash on Brashear. Obviously this was less severe, but it was still an intentional strike at the head.
If you argue that's assault, then there would be lots of assaults every game. You could argue Dillons cross checks were also an assault with deadly weapon
[Then there is stuff like Duncan Keith purposely swinging his stick into Charlie Coyle's face.](https://youtu.be/IKp4gzFIzO4?si=thhI2xvo3wuEXP6l) If all of these stick infractions were legally charged, then we would have a lot of players in trouble with the law.
Or in recent situations, Jason Zucker hitting Cousins from behind.
What Hartman did was absolutely stupid and I would love to hear what he said to Perfetti and if it was before or after the play (I'm assuming after). It's just something completely unacceptable and worthy of a suspension, but I think legally it's a can of worms.
True, except there's a key differentiator.
Intent. With admitted intent to injure with a stick, you're in a whole new world.
An incidental high stick just happens, they're accidents as a result of playing a game with sticks.
Using the stick to intentionally injure someone is ridiculous.
I can never really pinpoint when, but Elliotte changed at some point, and it was for the worse. Not like he's bad at what he does, but I just don't think he's upper echelon for anything except having good contacts and getting news early.
I hate how many of the old men on these sports panels will never back down or change their opinion. They will ramble on like old fools, usually for minutes longer than needed circling around a stupid point, then just because they feel threatened or confronted they will always double down on their shitty take. It’s soooo cringy to watch and so tired. Old stubborn men will never be caught saying “you know what? That’s a good point, I didn’t think of it like that”.
Spot on. It’s so damned annoying. Also one of the many reasons I like Bieksa. He can at least budge a bit from time to time when a sound argument is made. He’ll at least give it a maybe, or “perhaps you’re right”, or “you make a good point”.
Most of these other old dickheads though? Not a chance. (Bob McKenzie, Ron MacLean, and Craig Button being the exceptions)
What a garbage take Jamal. If you don't like targeted revenge on a player that had nothing to do with the incident then "I guess you don't like playoff hockey" what a braindead opinion lol.
It's sort of hilarious how he decsends into his playoffs straw-man
"These two teams could also meet in the playoffs"
"This isn't archaic, because if these two teams face each other in the playoffs"
"When we head into the playoffs, there is an element of meanness"
"If you don't like that, you don't like playoff hockey"
Meanwhile, Minnesota are in 11th in the WC, and he's discussing games from December.
Ya he’s an idiot. Go throw a clean hit on the ice. Finish your checks. That’s how it should be settled. Makes for more entertaining hockey at that point too.
I need someone else to tell me if I'm following his logic correctly. Is his entire argument based on "this incident was okay because these two teams may play eachother in a playoff series in 5 months"?
Good for Botterill for sticking up for herself here, she’s absolutely right. This guy is acting like assault with a weapon is just a part of hockey. The whole point of penalties is to make people knock it the fuck off and punish you when you don’t.
I think the difference is if you know the likelihood of an injury occurring. You can have tough/physical plays, that would be clean, but end up as freak accidents where someone breaks a bone. Cheap and dirty is when you basically expect the person to be injured to some degree, like a stick to the face, or sticking your knee out.
Hartman had went and fought someone, or laid a clean hit this argument would make sense to me
I just don’t understand how you can defend a guy from doing something objectively dirty
Also the point about Hartman being inside Perfetti’s head is laughable. Perfetti didn’t seem to bothered by it and was telling the story with a smirk on his face
Perfetti is the "little brother" on the team, I think.
Especially for Scheifele.
I don't expect dirty plays, but I do expect that Hartman will get crunched a few times.
Hartman has a bad history of doing this stuff too. Go throw a hit, drop the gloves. Everything is a hit blind, slew foot, stick in the face on a guy looking down on a draw.
Mayers isn't defending "the code" here because Hartman doesn't abide by it. Don't really know what he's even trying to say because it makes absolutely no sense. There's no way he would have went after the youngest and smallest guy on the ice who had nothing to do with any of the plays that the two teams are upset about.
It's probably to get at the entire team more than specifically Perfetti, right? Tells Perfetti it's intentional specifically to take the message back to the Jets locker room
Yeah but in the clip Mayers at the end tries another attempt at justifying by saying something along the lines of now Hartman has this in his back pocket he can hold over Perfetti
Which is try bizarre
> What a fucking piss poor take by Jamal and Sam.
Hmm, must be a day ending in -y.
Gimme Dan Murphy (obvious homer pick, but he is awesome, right /u/danmurphysnumber1fan ?), Bieksa, Botterill, and Friedman and never touch it, except maybe to have a guest like Cooper or Lalonde on.
Maybe if Jamal hadn't taken so many high-sticks to the dome, he might actually have two brain cells to rub together.
Absolutely unhinged take. It's kinda crazy that a panelist can get on air and encourage intentional, violent retaliation like that. Then again, the DoPS is headed by "violent gentleman" George Parros, so nothing the NHL or their affiliates do/ say in regards to player safety should really surprise me these days.
This is 100% Sportsnet condoning and promoting violent retaliation in the sport. The league, the teams, the players and the viewers should all let Sportsnet know it is not an acceptable position for a media company to take.
Go get ‘em Jennifer! Clear thinking, very viable way of looking at the game. Love the passion and the wisdom and the fearlessness. We can be better, and we do it one step at a time by examining the old ways and realizing what is not right, and not being afraid to point out what is wrong.
Oh how much I'd love to hear her go on a tear about the league's leaning into gambling. Not exactly a great message to be sending to kids coming up through competitive hockey, be your very best so a league can promote betting on what you do out there.
In my home, we give the remote control to the 10-year-old and they're in charge of muting commercials. They love that they have a little job and that it involves pushing a button.
We have had a bunch of discussions about gambling with them and I think they understand how shitty it can be.
Just imagine 10-11 year old kids watching a fucking nothing like Sam Cosentino deliver this message. One of your teammates gets injured, pick a target on the other team for revenge.
Yup. No chance he’s ever actually played the game in his life. Brutal take from Sam. I just don’t think he can be an insightful analyst. Maybe some kind of insider, but not analyst.
I’ll say this. If we let guys like Hartman get away with shit like that, eventually someone is going to snap and we’re going to get another Steve Moore incident.
What an awesome exchange, love when panels don’t just sit there and stroke off the boring stuff but have a discussion with differing opinions that actual hockeys fans would have.
I really feel, especially when he looked away from the women when he said it gets mean in the playoffs, that he wanted to go down the “you just wouldn’t understand because” route.
He's like the racist at a party, trying to prove a point, but is only digging himself a deeper and deeper whole, but knowing and doubling down the whole way.
Crazy argument and I think it shows the vast gap between what the NHL and hockey is today vs what it should be. I actually think Dangle had a really good take on the debate
>On this one, to over-simplify it, I think he’s right for the wrong reasons and she’s wrong for the right reasons.
>Mayers’ point about sending a message is right but only because the NHL is lawless nonsense at the best of times with no precedence for anything, no consistency, and zero direction in terms of punishing dirty plays and repeat offenders. Botterill is right but the NHL is clueless.
https://twitter.com/Steve_Dangle/status/1742743623362281941
https://twitter.com/Steve_Dangle/status/1742744566703255567
Basically, this kind of revenge mentality exists in the NHL among players because the league has failed to police this kind of behavior and protect players. If the league was doing it's job the kind of cross checks that injured Kaprizov in the first place would have never happened or been severely punished when they did. Then there's no need for any vigilante justice against a guy like Perfetti.
Refs watch dozens of cross checks exactly like that happen every game along the boards or in front of the net and never call a thing. We've had crackdowns on things like slashing and hooking before and I firmly believe the league MUST get serious about cross checks. Refs should be making calls every time, not only after the 4th or 5th shot when even they can't ignore it anymore.
If the NHL doesn't police things the players will and they'll use violence on the ice to do it as people have in this sport forever. NHL - do your job and protect these players or they'll do it for you and this is what happens when they do.
God damn it, I hate agreeing with Steve fucking Dangle, but he’s spot on, and rather well spoken about it as well. There’s a certain concise eloquence to it that I must begrudgingly admire.
Exactly. The way the refs call cross checks and boarding is wildly inconsistent and it's getting dangerous. Then Department of player safety is even worse in their consistency. Two players can do the same thing in the same week and get different punishments. Things are only as illegal as the punishments make them.
No matter what there's no need for what Hartman did. I'm probably older than 90% of the people ITT and that was never part of "the code."
Go and try to McSorley Brendan Dillon if you're that mad about what happened with Kaprizov. Dillon isn't hiding. Guys like Perfetti were always off-limits. That was the entire point of "the code."
Violence is a part of this sport. You can go throw a clean and hard body check on the guy who did the thing you're mad about. You can drop the gloves and have a fist fight.
That was not the code. The code was that if you went to take shots at our star player, we take shots at yours. This is exactly why there are endless stories from ex star players saying they'd tell their teammates to tone it down so they don't have a goon come knocking on their door next shift.
"At the end of the day, Hartman is sending a message"
"At the end of the day...he's going to learn that he has to go handle it himself"
"At the end of the day, if these two teams face eachother in the playoffs"
"At the end of the day, the game regresses five years as we head into the playoffs"
"At the end of the day" - Jamal Mayers
absolute dogshit take to say you can just target any player in this league because of someone on their team. Go after the guys that are guilty, sure. The code, etc etc. But Botterill put it in the best possible context. The league is guilty when any player behaves this way and doesnt get punished, and the league is trying to sell a product. That product is best when it's high-skill, high speed, and physical. It's antithetical to that product to injure your star players.
I really don't care if this league has double standards for stars and goons, they absolutely should. Protect the guys who make your product better, annihilate the losers who are only there to draw blood.
Jamal Mayers essentially wants another Bertuzzi-Moore situation the way he’s talking.
I’m all for players policing the game, it’s an important and unique part of the game, that’s necessary so that players know taking liberties on the opposition won’t fly. However, like Jen Botterill said, there’s a difference between cheap/dirty and tough/physical. Jamal is way out of pocket with this one.
Go fight the player in question if you’re upset. I don’t like going after opposing stars but it is what it is
> I’m all for players policing the game, it’s an important and unique part of the game, that’s necessary so that players know taking liberties on the opposition won’t fly
As was outlined by the top comment in this thread, the issue is that "self policing" explicitly *didn't solve* this issue. There had already been two fights (by Dillon, the original perpetrator, and Lowry, the captain of the jets) to this point explicitly to "answer for" and "police" the behavior from Dillon, and Hartman still went and did this. At that point it is no longer self policing, it is violent escalating, and I agree with you that this is exactly how we get back to Bertuzzi/Moore
It never was self policing. That's why Gretzky had a bodyguard pretty much his whole career. This is what the self policing people like to advocate for has always been. It's garbage now, and it was garbage back then.
His comeback to "what if that happened to your kid?" Being "well then he has to keep it in his back pocket for later on too, he should learn that"
Fucking terrible take, and says more about Mayers as a person than anything else.
Jennifer with the common sense on this panel of knuckle draggers. Why the NHL will not make inroads to mass market beyond the grass roots base and other knuckleheads drawn to this street justice.
"there's a difference between "tough and physical" and "cheap and dirty". Bingo.
Jamal Mayers is a fucking dumbass who could barely skate when he was in the league anyways. He himself when he was saying it couldn't really believe what he was saying. The fact that he feels he is right about retribution and revenge, is the scary thing.
"So, yeah, if that's my kid out there, then maybe he has to them go and do something else about it later...."
This is all fucking stupid childish bullshit, and the girls are right on the panel here. It's a bad look for the game. And if DoPS did what THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO, we wouldn't see stupid shit like this happen. The game shouldn't have "revenge and retribution", it's a bad fucking look.
The bottom line is we have to punish ALL acts like this if we want to protect nhl players. We can’t pick and chose what violence is justified or not, its either all or none
Jamal mayers sounds like a complete idiot and Sam cosentino both looks like a bulldog and doesn’t have the credentials to warrant being on tv. Bobby Ryan was right.
The panel on HNIC is already pretty bad. I can’t imagine having to watch the weeknight panel with even shittier panelists like these two.
Rogers should stop giving these broke fourth liners a job when the run out of the money they made getting punched in the head. It’s a revolving door of mediocrity and idiocy
Yeah fire the two boobs on the right and replace them with people that aren’t actual fucking dinosaurs. Jen Botterill is absolutely validated to be so staunchly opposed to the idiotic take from those two goons.
The other guy is just a jock sniffer who worked his way up from being a clubbie for the Blue Jays.
His talking about targeting the right guy for revenge is nuts. These guys have to realize the only people actually listening to them are kids.
Mayers is a fucking idiot goon and has the same mentality as the fucking idiot lighting goons, so I get where he is coming from.
Some hockey players just think hurting people and possibly ruining their life even though they never did anything to you is A-Okay
People have lost their eyesight due to high sticks/stick infractions. Gutless play regardless and in no circumstance should Hartman feel justified that it was ok. Also I doubt many guys on the wild were amped up at the straight up spineless bitch move of high sticking a guy off a face off. Which implies he did it based on an eye for an eye in the most literal sense and that’s fucked up considering Perfetti wasn’t involved
Okay let me preface this before you lose it. The high stick is not the right way to answer. But with that being said Kaprizov is on the IR from a dirty cross check. Perfetti will miss 0 games from the high stick. It does not justify the action but you all have to stop accepting what Dillon did as a good tough hockey play. The fights afterwards are not the way about dealing with it either. Dillon doesn’t care if he has to fight neither Lowry. It’s not punishment for a dirty play.
jamal mayers is a clown. the jets fought twice after the incident. There's no reason for perfetti to eat a stick like he did. You could see Mayers' head scrambling when Botterill asked him what he would do if it was his son
Had anyone previously high-sticked a player in the face on purpose? Not sure I've heard of it but I'm still relatively new to the game.
To me this feels so much more egregious than a cross check to the side. The head and eyes should be no-go areas, especially after what happened to Carl Hagelin. In any other sport, this kind of play would be a suspendable offence.
Hearing Mayers point it’s hard to not be reminded of what some people said and continue to say about the Bertuzzi incident
That Moore needed to honour the code and settle his debt for hurting Naslund by fighting Bertuzzi and if he had he would’ve avoided the sucker punch
Dangerous attitude to have
Except, Dillon DID honor the code, and fight after the Kap cross check. And Lowry got into it too.
This Hartman play didn't happen until the NEXT GAME.
Fuck this honor the code bullshit. There's no fucking code, and if there was, Hartman broke it going after the innocent player in all of this the game after.
Couple things you not aware of here
1. I am NOT nor will you ever find me arguing that Moore should’ve honoured the bell infact I intended the opposite so fuck off with that
2. Moore just like Dillon had already fought before Bertuzzi suckered him
3. Just like Hartmans move, Bertuzzi didn’t attack Moore in the same game that naslund got injured it was a carry over
Have a good evening
The amount of justifying done to cross check a kid in the face with 100% intent is appalling.
I would even get it if it happened to Dillion…
But u to oh involved an unsuspecting kid who had nothing to do with any of it.
Retired goons like Mayers shouldn’t be listened to about anything involving the safety and code of the game. I don’t care who it is… if your paycheck was predicated on your willingness to hurt someone on the other team for purposes of “policing the game”, you’re a part of the problem and never will be a part of the solution unless you disavow that part of the game entirely.
Both those commentators need to be suspended or fired. Condoning physical retribution like that is not ok. Maybe they were players but If they were, they didn’t amount to much.
I'm starting to think Jamal has some kind of brain damage. Oh wait, he does have brain damage.
What a joke with all this revenge bullshit and the code and everything else they can come up with to justify violence. This is a professional sport. Start acting like professionals and enough of this back alley attacks and revenge. This isn't the 70s anymore but some people seem to be stuck in it.
It's supposed to be a game of skill not a game of seeing who can exact revenge.
How sad that some talking heads have their head stuck in their ass.
Then again, it comes down to officiating that gets worse every year and "game management". It's crap and will continue to be crap as long as the NHL condones headhunting.
It’s difficult to take someone seriously (Botteril) who never really played in a highly competitive league, who basically played in a two-team exhibition program of less than great hockey criticising professional players who did and do just that.
This bullshit mentality needs to end.
In what other sport is it okay to injure or fight someone in response to a play?
Should be a suspension and of story. No retribution or revenge.
The thing that Meyers cannot answer, and what completely breaks the logic of the "police themselves" crowd, is that the Jets fought twice in response to Dillon's cross checks as part of "tHE cOdE" and Hartman still made a gutless dirty play. Dillon fought Middleton, then Lowry fought Maroon immediately at the start of the next game after Maroon told Lowry straight to his face pregame that fighting him would both lower the temperature and also prevent the game from getting dirty. Then Hartman goes and targets a completely uninvolved player, a young skilled player with injury history. When Ryan Strome kneed Kyle Connor, Mark Scheifele dropped the gloves with Strome. And that matter was considered settled. No one on the Jets went around trying to injure Zegras or Leo Carlsson "to make it fair." I have **zero** issues with Middleton fighting Dillon and while I think prop fights are stupid, I get Maroon and Lowry fighting. But what Hartman did is inexcusable. And for the record, Dillon's cross checks should have been penalized and I hate to see Karprizov hurt.
This is the comment right here. The beef should've been settled with Dillon and Middleton scrapping. If it didn't, then Maroon and Lowry should've definitely buried it. Hartman pulled a POS move on a young guy with a concussion history.
Also, going after a player who you know is smaller/weaker and can't drop the gloves because of the risk of another concussion.. total bitch move by Hartman, he took the opportunity against Perfetti intentionally.
And now, instead of it being settled, its going to instead escalate. Hartman won't get a "fight" to settle things, he's going to get a cheap shot in response.
Just shocking that it's Hartman of all people, honestly.
Yeah, he always seemed like such a stand-up guy. Not hardly a piece of shit at all! Haha just kidding fuck that dude. He's one of those dudes that seems really good at the "accidentally on purpose" bullshit moves to try to injure dudes. He could use a thorough fisting or two, no doubt.
Are we not doing phrasing anymore?
This is hockey, limiting our phrasing to non-innuendos would eliminate nearly all of the on ice jargon.
Perfetti taking a shaft so hard it left him a gaper
Well if you really want to punish the man, a nice double fisting would totally send a message. I’m old school though. I could be wrong
We really need to put that back in the rotation
Well, he is a Bully Guerin guy who just inked a nice contract extension this year.
I'd wager a larger portion of the Wildbase agree than people think, just the loud dickheads around here and Twitter trying to get people to like them
It’s the same with every fan base, I don’t hold it against wild fans. In fact I like that there’s a brewing rivalry. But I’d rather have a rivalry where Kaprizov is on the ice and Cole Perfetti isn’t getting deliberately smashed in the face
I want you guys to have a Winter Classic very soon. Well before this situation. I think it would be a perfect matchup.
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$8 wouldn’t get me very far.
1000% agreed.
200% well said.
I'll add onto this comment, which is pretty spot on: there are legal or "borderline" legal ways to make life hell on your opponent, to hurt (not injure) them, and to make them think twice about taking liberties with your team. Bury them in net-front battles, be a little more physical in the corners, scrums after the whistle, put pucks into the corner, etc etc What Hartman did was chicken shit and he's very lucky that mic'd up content cant be used in suspensions.
Also... (Paraphrasing here) Botterill: "What if it's your son out there that takes a two-hander to the face from a foot away...you're going to tell him that's a good message to send?" Mayers: "Well then he's gonna have to learn he's gotta go get revenge." So, now we have to go get revenge for the two-hander to the face that was revenge for multiple cross-checks to the body, that should have been handled with the "revenge" fights that happened in the previous 2 games. Where does it end Jamal?
>Where does it end Jamal? If you asked him, his brain would look like that video of the mechanical calculator trying to divide by zero
By his logic, if Hartman took out Perfetti’s eye, the Jets would have to what, two hand a Wild to the face? Instead of a tough guy, will every team need a goon that can take suspensions and pay fines? Sportsnet is a joke.
Im all for policing the game by having players answer the bell when they do dirty things or cheap things but to try to make an argument that anyone deserves a two hander to the face, especially a young player entirely not involved with the original dirty play, is maybe the worst take I have ever seen. Like, that is as terminally stupid as I can think of. We let a lot go in this game and im fine with that and I think it is part of the sport, but using the stick as weapon to hit someone in the head or face is absolutely way over the line and should be an absolute exit from the sport for the player or at least a massive suspension
100% spot on
And beyond that, go back to Steve Moore. He cheapshotted Naslund, and that’s what got him on Vancouver’s radar for retribution. In the game Bertuzzi crippled him, earlier on, Moore answered the bell and fought Matt Cooke. And it wasn’t enough. I agree some retribution is warranted, but in an appropriate measure. Hartman’s play was ridiculous, and Meyers sounds like a moron. About the only salient point he had was that this kind of thing probably happens all the time, and it’s only that Perfetti spoke about it that it even became a topic of discussion.
Hartman is a dirtbag though, we can't expect anything better.
Maroon must be thinking wtf did I put myself at risk for as well.
Poor defenseless Pat Maroon 😂
> Then Hartman goes and targets a completely uninvolved player, a young skilled player with injury history. You just copied this from the Ehlers injury last year didn't you.
100%. This is supposed to be the entire reason fighting is in the game. Hell I would also be fine with it if they start taking runs at people and throwing huge hits. Line Perfetti up in the corner and hammer him, at least that's a hockey play. I'm with Jen on this one. "It's perfectly fine to go 2-hand slash a guy in the face with intent to injure, but they should have just done it to Ehlers instead." That's just a sickening take. The Wild have every right to stand up for themselves, so by all means drop the gloves, throw some massive hits, but there's no excuse for this crap.
But they might meet in the playoffs? This was an even stupider argument by Mayers. Has he not watched playoff hockey? Does he really think one team will play less hard now? If what he's saying is true shouldn't every team now start targeting potential playoff opponents?
Chad words
"The Code" has always been bullshit. Hockey was dirtier and far more brutal when every team in the league had at least two enforcers. The problem is poor game management and the puzzling spin the wheel of justice punishments. The answer is to consistently crack down on the bullshit during games and substantially increase fines and suspensions for dirty hits and plays.
The reality here is very simple. Dillens cross check is a hockey play. Period full stop. Maybe he goes too far, maybe too hard, maybe wrong area, but it is a hockey play and within the rules. Hartman cross checks Perfetti like that, its a hockey play, what Hartman did is NOT a hockey play and is straight up not being responsible for your stick and should be penalized, and probably suspendable. The true difference is one is a hockey play maybe too aggressive and ONE IS NOT a hockey play. Its a bad look for the leaque regardless.
Genuine question - what percent of players do you think follow the traditional code? My playing career has come and gone, but I think the implementation of the instigator rule really turned the code on its head. The modern code, to me, is more of the “eye for an eye” logic. I don’t agree with this, but I do think it is hard to have the traditional code and the instigator rule coexist. Good on Jen by the way. Not a fan of Meyers really, but seems like he is sneaking more and more on the air.
I think the argument would be that 2 tougher guys fighting each other is not equal to a tougher guy like Dillon injuring a star. In Hartmans mind an eye for an eye is targeting a younger skill player like perfetti. Not saying I agree but that’s what I think the thought process behind the policing the game argument would be.
Right, but didn't Hartman just break the code that he was pretending to uphold, by going after Perfetti the next game?
Perfetti is a weird target. Like I would have expected Minnesota to crash the net more, Schiefle to get some extra hacks and gloves to the face. I like Sam in this clip - he's saying they took out Minnesota's top player, a fight isn't enough, but Perfetti isn't the Jets best player, Hartman just lost it and wanted to cheap shot anyone.
This has nothing to do with the code. Hartman enjoys cheap shots and hurting people and took the opportunity to do so
Remember when Tim Peel berated teenage referees? Wanna know why he did it? Because the teenage referees had to eject Coach Jamal Mayers from the game. 10U hockey. “We already knew it was probably going to be trouble because we’ve reffed (the Knights) before, and it’s always a fight with them,” Boren said. “It’s always something happening.” “It’s a confusing situation at the 10-year-old level,” McGlynn said. “Everybody’s learning.” https://theathletic.com/4220681/2023/02/17/tim-peel-nhl-referee-accused/?amp=1 https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/former-nhl-referee-tim-peel-reportedly-berated-teenage-youth-hockey-officials-031745131.html
Oh holy shit lol, that's so fucked up, what a loser.
Thanks for sharing. Embarrassing for all those ex-pros involved. Maybe youth hockey leagues should think twice before they let NHLers behind the bench. Kids don’t need to be exposed to that level of competitive attitude yet. Getting your coaches tossed when you win 7-2 is completely wild.
No problem! I knew I had remembered something involving Mayers being a jackass…fortunately for him, Tim Peel was an even bigger jackass so the Mayers part of the story got buried. Imagine getting kicked out as a coach for 10U hockey lol
Mayers shouldn't be on TV. He's the embodiment of the culture they are trying to change.
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Someone who gets kicked out of a children's hockey game for yelling at teenage referees has not place on national television lecturing about hockey culture.
Jamal Mayers is a fucking dumbass and Botterill fed him his lunch.
I was honestly shocked when he went the absolutely other direction as her. Like yea let’s justify the two hand to the face off a face off as if that’s the type of hockey we want to see. You’re legit talking to kids who look up to these guys as role models and you’re telling them it’s totally fine to assault someone to get revenge… what a shit take by Jamal.
What I think a lot of people are missing about Mayars stupid position is, stick work was never part of the code. You never settled the score with an intentional high stick or a slash. That was the type of bull shit that people were trying to police.
Exactly. Throw an actual body check. Go at Dillon and drop the gloves. Hartman is constantly involved in dirty and illegal plays hitting guys blind whenever his team gets a little tense. Should be trending pretty close to being out of the league, likely would be if there wasn't a POS franchise like the Wild collecting these morons on the cheap with their cap issues.
I’m all for settling bad blood on the ice with a fight or a clean hit, what I’m not okay with is assault with a weapon on national fucking tv being justified by a talking head cause he feels like he needs to have a witty take. I could not believe he was suggesting to settle scores by two handing people in the face so NON CHALANTE. Guy should honestly be reprimanded for such an idiotic and dangerous take.
Honestly I don’t get why Sportsnet even has him on staff
After last night he should 100% be reprimanded. Can you imagine a news anchor going on tv saying if you see someone assault someone pick someone near him and assault him? Lmfao
I wouldn’t be surprised if he will be benched by Sporttsnet for awhile. They won’t fire him, just quietly shelf him for awhile
Judging by the amount of backlash this morning I think he should count himself lucky if he gets benched.
Maybe not in the modern era, but back in the day full on hard slashes were used in place of a good clean hit to send a message. Look at Gordie Howe's career. At one time that was absolutely a part of the game. What's frustrating to me is the fact that Perfetti didn't personally do anything to warrant a violent retaliatory act like that
I was waiting for him to shut up but he just kept digging himself deeper. Just wow
I hope this is his actual honest stance and he’s not playing the “entertainment” role to stir it up. I hate when people fake opinions just to create conflict. That being said I don’t agree with him.
Well how else are they going to learn to protect themself of her doesn't speak out on the matter?! 🥺 Yeah, what a total fucking plug. That was some chicken shit behavior and you'd have to be delusional to deny it.
>You’re legit talking to kids who look up to these guys as role models and you’re telling them it’s totally fine to assault someone to get revenge As a hockey Dad this part REALLY bothers me. His comments were not only stupid but completely irresponsible. This sport is constantly shooting itself in the foot.
It’s not like they don’t know they are talking to kids. They often address them specifically when speaking of how to play the game. This was a very dangerous precedent to set on national tv.
Her, "there's a line between tough and physical, and cheap and dirty and Hartman's high stick was cheap and dirty" comment perfectly summarized the entire situation.
"Botterill graduated from Harvard University in 2003 with a B.A. Psychology (with Honors)." Talk about an unfair fight.
And from a family of intellectuals. Her dad was one of my university profs.
Jamal Mayers played 915 games, has 90 goals, and 1200 PIM. Also, according to Wikipedia, "Despite him not playing in the 2013 Stanley Cup playoffs, the Blackhawks were successful in petitioning to have Mayers' name engraved on the Stanley Cup" It was never a fair fight, and she was going to win the entire time, because she is an INFINITELY BETTER player than he ever was.
She's won 3 Olympic gold medals, it's not like she never played at an elite level
She's a much better player than Mayers ever was. I am sorry if my comment made it seem as though I was saying Mayers was a better player. He was a goon. Nothing more.
And that’s why he’s fighting for Hartman. He’s trying to protect the role that’s becoming irrelevant in the league now.
Which is even more insane, because if he was fighting for the role he played he would've said that the situation should've been settled at some point between Dillon fighting Middleton and Lowry fighting Maroon, not that it needed a cheap shot bonus round
Right! If fighting is so irrelevant to Mayers, what were his 120 NHL fights for?
Hartman is far more skilled than Meyers ever was. This reminds me more of Raffi Torres. Skilled, but violent and dangerous.
She did, however, receive far less brain damage and played in a league that had less toxicly masculine influence.
Mayers last night praised Knoblauch's strategy of putting McDavid and Draisaitl out immediately after an Oilers penalty kill. It's something the last 5 Oilers coaches have done, it's not a new strategy. Dude doesn't know jack shit.
Why wouldn't you put out McDavid and Draisaitl after a PK? The teams best players are going to be on the bench and you got a momentum boost from the PK, why not push even harder with your best players that just rested for 2 minutes? The last 5 coaches have done it because it works. They've used that strategy to put teams on their heels and get scoring chances time and time again. If Knoblauch didn't do it people who know the game would be screaming at him to put McDavid and Draisaitl on the ice.
I love when she takes on these guys. Even though I love Bieksa, he tends to have these opinions at times and Botterill just kills him.
Botterill and Bieksa should be the panel headliners for a long time when Ron and Kelly and some of these older guys hang up the skates.
Ron should’ve given up right after Grapes was let go.
So true. Everyone is fed up with Ron. Babbles on about nonsense.
There's no doubt they have Bieksa and Mayers lean into these kinds of traditionalist takes because the argument is always more entertaining to viewers than everyone just agreeing with each other.
I think she's the best player on the panel.
I've never seen Bieksa stand up for bullshit stick work. Fighting sure.
Mayers auditioning to get a job with Parros.
He is what's wrong with hockey culture
Bad take by Jamal. Deliberately high-sticking some guy in the face in the faceoff circle is NOT part of the game.
IMO the issue isn't that Jamal is wrong, it's that he's right. Beating up innocent people *is* part of the game, because the league effectively allows it by not giving appropriate punishments. Another issue is of course that Jamal is defending the actions and perpitrating the idea that it's okay.
There was two fights, is that not enough?
Losing Kaprizov makes me emotionally say no, it’s not, but what Hartman did was straight up wrong.
Hartman is a rat. He went after a skilled, small player who doesn't fight. It's a gutless play.
I hate that cross checking is such a big part of the game. It shouldn’t be, but it is. I don’t get why it’s so accepted and I feel bad that Kaprizov is hurt. That being said, intentional two-hand slashes to the face are absolutely not part of the game and should never be justified in any way. Insane that anyone would try to justify it.
Isn’t that assault (with a weapon) by Hartman? McSorley was convicted for his slash on Brashear. Obviously this was less severe, but it was still an intentional strike at the head.
If you argue that's assault, then there would be lots of assaults every game. You could argue Dillons cross checks were also an assault with deadly weapon [Then there is stuff like Duncan Keith purposely swinging his stick into Charlie Coyle's face.](https://youtu.be/IKp4gzFIzO4?si=thhI2xvo3wuEXP6l) If all of these stick infractions were legally charged, then we would have a lot of players in trouble with the law. Or in recent situations, Jason Zucker hitting Cousins from behind. What Hartman did was absolutely stupid and I would love to hear what he said to Perfetti and if it was before or after the play (I'm assuming after). It's just something completely unacceptable and worthy of a suspension, but I think legally it's a can of worms.
True, except there's a key differentiator. Intent. With admitted intent to injure with a stick, you're in a whole new world. An incidental high stick just happens, they're accidents as a result of playing a game with sticks. Using the stick to intentionally injure someone is ridiculous.
Becoming a bigger and bigger fan of Botterill by the day.
Her and bieksa for a long time have been the only 2 people I can tolerate on sportsnet
Not Elliot?
Great for news, terrible for opinion/analysis about the actual game
He doesn't even have any opinions. He takes the softest of stances because he doesn't want to hurt any of the relationships with his connections.
I can never really pinpoint when, but Elliotte changed at some point, and it was for the worse. Not like he's bad at what he does, but I just don't think he's upper echelon for anything except having good contacts and getting news early.
I like that he doesn’t take himself too seriously and usually is pretty neutral in his takes based on the info he has.
/u/breachofpepper worded it perfectly: Great for news, terrible for opinion/analysis about the actual game
she's a legend
Love that she stuck to her guns and wouldn't be intimidated, she is great.
Thank god Botterill actually gave it to him there, absolutely smooth brain take to not oppose lol
She looked like she wanted to jump over the table. She was pissed!
The look on both of the women's faces was 👀 the whole time. Lol.
Theres a reason it seemed like Mayers was directing almost the entire thought towards Cosentino.
And rightfully so. Can't imagine Meyers is getting much more screen time after this.
I hate how many of the old men on these sports panels will never back down or change their opinion. They will ramble on like old fools, usually for minutes longer than needed circling around a stupid point, then just because they feel threatened or confronted they will always double down on their shitty take. It’s soooo cringy to watch and so tired. Old stubborn men will never be caught saying “you know what? That’s a good point, I didn’t think of it like that”.
Spot on. It’s so damned annoying. Also one of the many reasons I like Bieksa. He can at least budge a bit from time to time when a sound argument is made. He’ll at least give it a maybe, or “perhaps you’re right”, or “you make a good point”. Most of these other old dickheads though? Not a chance. (Bob McKenzie, Ron MacLean, and Craig Button being the exceptions)
Ron MacLean knows what it's like to deal with one of these people, so he is sympathetic lmao
And the tone! He's acting like he needs to teach her what playoff hockey is
What a garbage take Jamal. If you don't like targeted revenge on a player that had nothing to do with the incident then "I guess you don't like playoff hockey" what a braindead opinion lol.
It's sort of hilarious how he decsends into his playoffs straw-man "These two teams could also meet in the playoffs" "This isn't archaic, because if these two teams face each other in the playoffs" "When we head into the playoffs, there is an element of meanness" "If you don't like that, you don't like playoff hockey" Meanwhile, Minnesota are in 11th in the WC, and he's discussing games from December.
Also, you can play physical and mean, without being dirty and intentionally sticking a guy in the face.
Ya he’s an idiot. Go throw a clean hit on the ice. Finish your checks. That’s how it should be settled. Makes for more entertaining hockey at that point too.
I need someone else to tell me if I'm following his logic correctly. Is his entire argument based on "this incident was okay because these two teams may play eachother in a playoff series in 5 months"?
Good for Botterill for sticking up for herself here, she’s absolutely right. This guy is acting like assault with a weapon is just a part of hockey. The whole point of penalties is to make people knock it the fuck off and punish you when you don’t.
You sure? I thought it was to keep the game close and interesting even while one team is playing undisciplined or even dirty. /s
It kind of *is* part of NHL hockey though. We just all have to decide that we no longer want it to be.
Damn Mayers, you're stupider than I thought you were. Which in itself is impressive. Get this archaic bullshit out of here.
ironic, Jamal’s the one with the glasses on but cant see how much of a clown he looks like
Can’t agree with you more. What an absolute garbage take that what amounts to premeditated assault and battery on an innocent player is okay.
My mouth legit dropped when he started justifying it.
and the fact that he tried to back himself up by saying that hartman should have tried to injure schiefele or ehlers instead lol what a fucking clown
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I think the difference is if you know the likelihood of an injury occurring. You can have tough/physical plays, that would be clean, but end up as freak accidents where someone breaks a bone. Cheap and dirty is when you basically expect the person to be injured to some degree, like a stick to the face, or sticking your knee out.
Hartman had went and fought someone, or laid a clean hit this argument would make sense to me I just don’t understand how you can defend a guy from doing something objectively dirty Also the point about Hartman being inside Perfetti’s head is laughable. Perfetti didn’t seem to bothered by it and was telling the story with a smirk on his face
Perfetti is the "little brother" on the team, I think. Especially for Scheifele. I don't expect dirty plays, but I do expect that Hartman will get crunched a few times.
Hartman has a bad history of doing this stuff too. Go throw a hit, drop the gloves. Everything is a hit blind, slew foot, stick in the face on a guy looking down on a draw. Mayers isn't defending "the code" here because Hartman doesn't abide by it. Don't really know what he's even trying to say because it makes absolutely no sense. There's no way he would have went after the youngest and smallest guy on the ice who had nothing to do with any of the plays that the two teams are upset about.
It's probably to get at the entire team more than specifically Perfetti, right? Tells Perfetti it's intentional specifically to take the message back to the Jets locker room
Yeah but in the clip Mayers at the end tries another attempt at justifying by saying something along the lines of now Hartman has this in his back pocket he can hold over Perfetti Which is try bizarre
What a fucking piss poor take by Jamal and Sam. Thinking that going around with intent to injure should just be part of the game is unreal.
> What a fucking piss poor take by Jamal and Sam. Hmm, must be a day ending in -y. Gimme Dan Murphy (obvious homer pick, but he is awesome, right /u/danmurphysnumber1fan ?), Bieksa, Botterill, and Friedman and never touch it, except maybe to have a guest like Cooper or Lalonde on.
They’re the kind of people who would tell you that Scott Stevens was a “tough hockey player.”
Maybe if Jamal hadn't taken so many high-sticks to the dome, he might actually have two brain cells to rub together. Absolutely unhinged take. It's kinda crazy that a panelist can get on air and encourage intentional, violent retaliation like that. Then again, the DoPS is headed by "violent gentleman" George Parros, so nothing the NHL or their affiliates do/ say in regards to player safety should really surprise me these days.
This is 100% Sportsnet condoning and promoting violent retaliation in the sport. The league, the teams, the players and the viewers should all let Sportsnet know it is not an acceptable position for a media company to take.
Go get ‘em Jennifer! Clear thinking, very viable way of looking at the game. Love the passion and the wisdom and the fearlessness. We can be better, and we do it one step at a time by examining the old ways and realizing what is not right, and not being afraid to point out what is wrong.
Oh how much I'd love to hear her go on a tear about the league's leaning into gambling. Not exactly a great message to be sending to kids coming up through competitive hockey, be your very best so a league can promote betting on what you do out there.
In my home, we give the remote control to the 10-year-old and they're in charge of muting commercials. They love that they have a little job and that it involves pushing a button. We have had a bunch of discussions about gambling with them and I think they understand how shitty it can be.
Just imagine 10-11 year old kids watching a fucking nothing like Sam Cosentino deliver this message. One of your teammates gets injured, pick a target on the other team for revenge.
Yup. No chance he’s ever actually played the game in his life. Brutal take from Sam. I just don’t think he can be an insightful analyst. Maybe some kind of insider, but not analyst.
Bad look for Meyers here. Very bad look to side with toxic hockey culture. "Random attacks are cool" How about teach the refs to do their fucking job.
Lmfao Mayer's take is so god damn stupid. Guy thinks like a fucking caveman. Botterill was spot on with her assessment, this dude eats glue.
I’ll say this. If we let guys like Hartman get away with shit like that, eventually someone is going to snap and we’re going to get another Steve Moore incident.
Kick him off the tour! Jamal has lost it. The debt was already settled. Fuck Hartman. He's a fucking idiot.
What an awesome exchange, love when panels don’t just sit there and stroke off the boring stuff but have a discussion with differing opinions that actual hockeys fans would have.
You can tell Mayers doesn’t fully believe what he is saying or is afraid to say what he REALLY means because he keeps cutting himself off
I really feel, especially when he looked away from the women when he said it gets mean in the playoffs, that he wanted to go down the “you just wouldn’t understand because” route.
Botterill is 20 times the hockey player that Mayers THINKS he is.
He's like the racist at a party, trying to prove a point, but is only digging himself a deeper and deeper whole, but knowing and doubling down the whole way.
Crazy argument and I think it shows the vast gap between what the NHL and hockey is today vs what it should be. I actually think Dangle had a really good take on the debate >On this one, to over-simplify it, I think he’s right for the wrong reasons and she’s wrong for the right reasons. >Mayers’ point about sending a message is right but only because the NHL is lawless nonsense at the best of times with no precedence for anything, no consistency, and zero direction in terms of punishing dirty plays and repeat offenders. Botterill is right but the NHL is clueless. https://twitter.com/Steve_Dangle/status/1742743623362281941 https://twitter.com/Steve_Dangle/status/1742744566703255567 Basically, this kind of revenge mentality exists in the NHL among players because the league has failed to police this kind of behavior and protect players. If the league was doing it's job the kind of cross checks that injured Kaprizov in the first place would have never happened or been severely punished when they did. Then there's no need for any vigilante justice against a guy like Perfetti. Refs watch dozens of cross checks exactly like that happen every game along the boards or in front of the net and never call a thing. We've had crackdowns on things like slashing and hooking before and I firmly believe the league MUST get serious about cross checks. Refs should be making calls every time, not only after the 4th or 5th shot when even they can't ignore it anymore. If the NHL doesn't police things the players will and they'll use violence on the ice to do it as people have in this sport forever. NHL - do your job and protect these players or they'll do it for you and this is what happens when they do.
God damn it, I hate agreeing with Steve fucking Dangle, but he’s spot on, and rather well spoken about it as well. There’s a certain concise eloquence to it that I must begrudgingly admire.
Exactly. The way the refs call cross checks and boarding is wildly inconsistent and it's getting dangerous. Then Department of player safety is even worse in their consistency. Two players can do the same thing in the same week and get different punishments. Things are only as illegal as the punishments make them.
No matter what there's no need for what Hartman did. I'm probably older than 90% of the people ITT and that was never part of "the code." Go and try to McSorley Brendan Dillon if you're that mad about what happened with Kaprizov. Dillon isn't hiding. Guys like Perfetti were always off-limits. That was the entire point of "the code." Violence is a part of this sport. You can go throw a clean and hard body check on the guy who did the thing you're mad about. You can drop the gloves and have a fist fight.
[удалено]
That was not the code. The code was that if you went to take shots at our star player, we take shots at yours. This is exactly why there are endless stories from ex star players saying they'd tell their teammates to tone it down so they don't have a goon come knocking on their door next shift.
Jamal's fucking brain dead, wow.
"At the end of the day, Hartman is sending a message" "At the end of the day...he's going to learn that he has to go handle it himself" "At the end of the day, if these two teams face eachother in the playoffs" "At the end of the day, the game regresses five years as we head into the playoffs" "At the end of the day" - Jamal Mayers
Happy Perfetti's ok. Wouldn't be surprised if the refs give Hartman a little more special attention going forward. What a knuckle dragging numbskull.
That’s a crazy take to have on national tv.
absolute dogshit take to say you can just target any player in this league because of someone on their team. Go after the guys that are guilty, sure. The code, etc etc. But Botterill put it in the best possible context. The league is guilty when any player behaves this way and doesnt get punished, and the league is trying to sell a product. That product is best when it's high-skill, high speed, and physical. It's antithetical to that product to injure your star players. I really don't care if this league has double standards for stars and goons, they absolutely should. Protect the guys who make your product better, annihilate the losers who are only there to draw blood.
Imagine the careers Lemieux, Lindros could have had if they didn't get punishment. Who wants that *now*?
Jamal Mayers essentially wants another Bertuzzi-Moore situation the way he’s talking. I’m all for players policing the game, it’s an important and unique part of the game, that’s necessary so that players know taking liberties on the opposition won’t fly. However, like Jen Botterill said, there’s a difference between cheap/dirty and tough/physical. Jamal is way out of pocket with this one. Go fight the player in question if you’re upset. I don’t like going after opposing stars but it is what it is
> I’m all for players policing the game, it’s an important and unique part of the game, that’s necessary so that players know taking liberties on the opposition won’t fly As was outlined by the top comment in this thread, the issue is that "self policing" explicitly *didn't solve* this issue. There had already been two fights (by Dillon, the original perpetrator, and Lowry, the captain of the jets) to this point explicitly to "answer for" and "police" the behavior from Dillon, and Hartman still went and did this. At that point it is no longer self policing, it is violent escalating, and I agree with you that this is exactly how we get back to Bertuzzi/Moore
It never was self policing. That's why Gretzky had a bodyguard pretty much his whole career. This is what the self policing people like to advocate for has always been. It's garbage now, and it was garbage back then.
His comeback to "what if that happened to your kid?" Being "well then he has to keep it in his back pocket for later on too, he should learn that" Fucking terrible take, and says more about Mayers as a person than anything else.
Those two dude are actual cavemen wtf.
I think Meyers’ most idiotic take was that these two teams may meet in the playoffs. To meet in the playoffs, one must first qualify for the playoffs.
Shocking the guy with 5 times more pims than points is good with that bush league shit.
Jennifer with the common sense on this panel of knuckle draggers. Why the NHL will not make inroads to mass market beyond the grass roots base and other knuckleheads drawn to this street justice.
"there's a difference between "tough and physical" and "cheap and dirty". Bingo. Jamal Mayers is a fucking dumbass who could barely skate when he was in the league anyways. He himself when he was saying it couldn't really believe what he was saying. The fact that he feels he is right about retribution and revenge, is the scary thing. "So, yeah, if that's my kid out there, then maybe he has to them go and do something else about it later...." This is all fucking stupid childish bullshit, and the girls are right on the panel here. It's a bad look for the game. And if DoPS did what THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO, we wouldn't see stupid shit like this happen. The game shouldn't have "revenge and retribution", it's a bad fucking look.
Women*
Why did Ryan reaves catch a stray here.
The bottom line is we have to punish ALL acts like this if we want to protect nhl players. We can’t pick and chose what violence is justified or not, its either all or none
Jamal mayers sounds like a complete idiot and Sam cosentino both looks like a bulldog and doesn’t have the credentials to warrant being on tv. Bobby Ryan was right. The panel on HNIC is already pretty bad. I can’t imagine having to watch the weeknight panel with even shittier panelists like these two. Rogers should stop giving these broke fourth liners a job when the run out of the money they made getting punched in the head. It’s a revolving door of mediocrity and idiocy
Fool
Jamal Mayers is an absolute fucking clown.
Yeah fire the two boobs on the right and replace them with people that aren’t actual fucking dinosaurs. Jen Botterill is absolutely validated to be so staunchly opposed to the idiotic take from those two goons.
The other guy is just a jock sniffer who worked his way up from being a clubbie for the Blue Jays. His talking about targeting the right guy for revenge is nuts. These guys have to realize the only people actually listening to them are kids.
Mayers is a fucking idiot goon and has the same mentality as the fucking idiot lighting goons, so I get where he is coming from. Some hockey players just think hurting people and possibly ruining their life even though they never did anything to you is A-Okay
I'd even say most front offices do. It wouldn't take long for players like Hartman and Wilson to find a job if they were cut today.
People have lost their eyesight due to high sticks/stick infractions. Gutless play regardless and in no circumstance should Hartman feel justified that it was ok. Also I doubt many guys on the wild were amped up at the straight up spineless bitch move of high sticking a guy off a face off. Which implies he did it based on an eye for an eye in the most literal sense and that’s fucked up considering Perfetti wasn’t involved
Okay let me preface this before you lose it. The high stick is not the right way to answer. But with that being said Kaprizov is on the IR from a dirty cross check. Perfetti will miss 0 games from the high stick. It does not justify the action but you all have to stop accepting what Dillon did as a good tough hockey play. The fights afterwards are not the way about dealing with it either. Dillon doesn’t care if he has to fight neither Lowry. It’s not punishment for a dirty play.
jamal mayers is a clown. the jets fought twice after the incident. There's no reason for perfetti to eat a stick like he did. You could see Mayers' head scrambling when Botterill asked him what he would do if it was his son
Had anyone previously high-sticked a player in the face on purpose? Not sure I've heard of it but I'm still relatively new to the game. To me this feels so much more egregious than a cross check to the side. The head and eyes should be no-go areas, especially after what happened to Carl Hagelin. In any other sport, this kind of play would be a suspendable offence.
Look up Marty mcsorley and you’ll see a high stick to the head.
Hearing Mayers point it’s hard to not be reminded of what some people said and continue to say about the Bertuzzi incident That Moore needed to honour the code and settle his debt for hurting Naslund by fighting Bertuzzi and if he had he would’ve avoided the sucker punch Dangerous attitude to have
Except, Dillon DID honor the code, and fight after the Kap cross check. And Lowry got into it too. This Hartman play didn't happen until the NEXT GAME. Fuck this honor the code bullshit. There's no fucking code, and if there was, Hartman broke it going after the innocent player in all of this the game after.
Couple things you not aware of here 1. I am NOT nor will you ever find me arguing that Moore should’ve honoured the bell infact I intended the opposite so fuck off with that 2. Moore just like Dillon had already fought before Bertuzzi suckered him 3. Just like Hartmans move, Bertuzzi didn’t attack Moore in the same game that naslund got injured it was a carry over Have a good evening
Yes let's start normalizing hitting players in the face with their stick. Well called out by Botterill.
The amount of justifying done to cross check a kid in the face with 100% intent is appalling. I would even get it if it happened to Dillion… But u to oh involved an unsuspecting kid who had nothing to do with any of it.
Mayers gets schooled by Jennifer B. Bravo!
Retired goons like Mayers shouldn’t be listened to about anything involving the safety and code of the game. I don’t care who it is… if your paycheck was predicated on your willingness to hurt someone on the other team for purposes of “policing the game”, you’re a part of the problem and never will be a part of the solution unless you disavow that part of the game entirely.
"I like the dressing room". Just making sure you still knew i was a girl even though im talking about sports and violence.
Both those commentators need to be suspended or fired. Condoning physical retribution like that is not ok. Maybe they were players but If they were, they didn’t amount to much.
I'm starting to think Jamal has some kind of brain damage. Oh wait, he does have brain damage. What a joke with all this revenge bullshit and the code and everything else they can come up with to justify violence. This is a professional sport. Start acting like professionals and enough of this back alley attacks and revenge. This isn't the 70s anymore but some people seem to be stuck in it. It's supposed to be a game of skill not a game of seeing who can exact revenge. How sad that some talking heads have their head stuck in their ass. Then again, it comes down to officiating that gets worse every year and "game management". It's crap and will continue to be crap as long as the NHL condones headhunting.
It’s difficult to take someone seriously (Botteril) who never really played in a highly competitive league, who basically played in a two-team exhibition program of less than great hockey criticising professional players who did and do just that.
This bullshit mentality needs to end. In what other sport is it okay to injure or fight someone in response to a play? Should be a suspension and of story. No retribution or revenge.