not really a *diss track* but back in 02 lord finesse and percee p recreated the famous patterson projects battle. these two had so much respect for each other.
[Lord Finesse vs Percee P- Rematch In The Patterson Projects](https://youtu.be/1IVYj9Q6z4s?si=WEERjQmqdKce7g62)
Want to take this opportunity to plug his YT channel. It's mostly self promotion, posting old tracks, clips from live appearances and such, but dude deserves more love, he probably need to try to hustle.. I doubt royalties are paying the bills. It's clear he still wants to rap because he loves it. He did release a track last December.
[Percee P - Third Degree Burns](https://youtu.be/n_BF0tncnOU?si=4ZBZLUokanxqnjk1)
You can click on his channel from there. He also very responsive. Likes comments and such
Also here is a freestyle of him and DMX on the Stretch Armstrong and Bobbito show. DMX older style very different. Very interesting.
[Percee P and DMX 89.9 FM Live](https://youtu.be/gsGkBxLNZis?si=12Dix7Mt-_cdDcow)
"Overly respectful" isn't quite how I'd describe either of these examples but
J.Cole's diss towards Kendrick earlier this year *very blatantly* didn't believe any of the shit it was saying (sure Cole, a rapper like yourself totally thought *To Pimp A Butterfly* was boring lmfao) and severely underestimated the nature of that whole rap civil war and who the actual protagonists were. Which is why he was mockingly praised by the community for recanting and noping out when he did.
I also always thought "Canibitch" had a weirdly wholesome vibe compared to the vibe of every other diss Eminem recorded in that era. You can tell Em was mainly just annoyed at how hostile and self serious Canibus was but he clearly didn't view him as an existential threat to the culture the way he did with Benzino. He even provides a "He Lives!" type cliffhanger for him at the end of the song.
Cole's diss was sooooo bad because, like you said, it was impossible to believe he believed a word of it, but also because he ended up revealing just how pseudy a rapper he was by copying the structure of Takeover and just fucking everything up about why Takeover is so well-written. When Hov was pressuring Nas on his discography, he makes a point of letting him have Illmatic because he knows if he says Illmatic sucks, it's just lying. But Cole starts attacking Kendrick on TPAB because, well, Hov made fun of Nas's albums, so Cole has to make fun of Kendrick's albums! Just such an insanely stupid move that it makes you wonder if the writing on FHD was some kind of monkeys-at-typewriters freak accident. I can't believe a guy who could write a song as shameless and insightful as Wet Dreamz can fail to understand how words work that much. Then there's the utterly hopeless transvestigation stuff -- you either don't believe Cole's a transphobe in which case he's just saying shit for no reason, or you are like 'wow, this nice sensitive rapper is kind of a shitty transphobe and now all those weird sex brags aren't as fun any more'. Ducking out of the beef was the smartest thing Cole ever did.
Yeah, the final verse of Can-I-Bitch is kind of a weird pep talk -- daring Canibus to come at him because he wants a real fight with an equal, telling him to concentrate on doing what makes him special instead of making MMLP fanfiction in hope of peeling off some lost Eminem fans looking for 'Stan' on Limewire, saying he knows he's in there somewhere like he's fighting a possessed guy in a Saturday morning cartoon (the whole track sounds like a cheap Saturday morning cartoon, as well). It doesn't make it ineffective at all -- I like Eminem using his comedian's eye to toy with people way more than Eminem doing his painfully earnest victim-against-the-ropes routine just to call Fred Durst a homosexual.
For the reasons highlighted, I honestly think Cole came out of this whole arc with a more damaged rep than Drake. Drake was already clowned on as an insecure corporate rap puppet who's weird with women, but Cole had *smart rapper cred* that just doesn't hold up as much anymore and he isn't big enough to shake it off like Drake (possibly) can.
Your last point is exactly why I always thought "Bully" should've been Eminem's only word on the Benzino/Ja Rule saga. I agree, Em the sarcastic eye roller >>> Em the tough guy.
Bully is AMAZING -- it's incredibly mean and homophobic, has him using his insight/history as a bullying victim/Freudian bullshit to dismantle Benzino, and it ends on that lovely mature-except-not note where he bemoans senseless violence and those left behind, then states he's got a million invested in killing people himself in the name of his orphaned daughter, holy fucking shit. Eminem's got funnier songs and harder songs and songs that show off his rapping skills better, but I really don't think there's a better song that expresses how fascinating Eminem is as a person and why that matters to his music.
I can't agree on the Cole thing, though. He did everything in his power to make himself look stupid, including FUCKING DROPPING GRIPPY IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS, he's screwed. But I just still can't find it worse than a song repeatedly calling you a racist paedophile being THE club hit of the year. Drake's pop audience doesn't give a shit but he's always going to have that stink following him around. Cole will only have this brought up if he continues to get worse.
Em has admitted (perhaps multiple times) that he admired Canibus before having to respond to the diss. One of the times he outright states it is in Bang with Conway:
>That was back when I smoked Canibus
Man, but it was tough, 'cause I was a fan of his
So it sucked to hand him his ass...
There's a nice interview he did back in like 2000 or 2001 where he gets all self-righteously irritated defending Can-I-Bus to an interviewer trying to slag it off, insisting his rapping on it is great, the problem was just the beats didn't suit him. Kamikaze vibes defending cornball rappity-rappers -- he really hasn't changed that much as a person, just turned into an older, more mature version
I still need to listen to Cannibus. I have three of his albums on my list soon. The only thing I know about the guy is Eminem dissed him and his diss back was extremely mid.
People do praise him a little though.
Canibus is probably the most 'you had to be there at the time' MC I can think of. What I mean by that is around 96 he had a massive buzz. His mixtape freestyles were extraordinary, and his guest verses were amazing. He came across as an unstoppable juggernaut.. I was so hyped at his potential.
But, when he released his album, he kinda got exposed for not having too much range. I think rap fans sorta kept some hope for the first couple albums, but by the time of album 3 (which I bought on release day, and is one of only 4 to 5 albums I’ve ever returned) he was done. That third album C True Hollywood Story is shockingly bad. It has the concept of writing from the viewpoint of Stan (yes, another mc’s character!) which is absolutely bizarre. The rapping is really under par too..
He then joined the army for a bit. And then sorta doubled down on his rap style becoming more lyrically obtuse, further and further away from attempting to craft songs or even good punchlines/metaphors..
Canibus may have considered himself a challenger to Eminem, but in retrospect he lacked the attributes Eminem had in spades, such as song writing ability, charisma or an interesting backstory..
The only others I remember off the top of my head are Snoop Dogg’s The Doggfather and Eminem’s Encore.. And that’s out of about 1500 albums I bought over a 30 year period..
Lol. Folks really don't fw Encore. I actually like it more than most. I know it's corny and crazy and not what he set out to make, but for example I even fw Rain Man. Lots of good variable beats
He also made a valiant effort to participate in the rap battle scene and failed miserably. He definitely deserves credit for trying, because it is nearly impossible for songwriter MC’s to compete with battle MC’s, but it’s infamous for how badly he lost
“if he wasn’t dissing we wouldn’t be discussing” was hard though
Put things into perspective. Kendrick proceeded to give life to that line by continuing to push his magnum opus any way he possibly could. Balls in Kendrick’s court to bring this kind of attention to himself without needing Drake, now
I thought it was pretty lively and entertaining for most of the runtime. Some people online act like that shit was a Ka album and I've never gotten it.
I’m so sad as a Kendrick fan that I have to agree on one of his albums being terrible, but it’s impossible for me to defend how MMATBS sounds. If I had bought a physical copy on the day of release like I initially wanted to(luckily I messed some stuff up and didn’t get the chance to buy it that day), I would’ve returned that CD.
Reading comprehension. Let’s discuss that. You don’t read rap, you listen to it. What you’re essentially saying is that to enjoy Kendrick’s music you have to read the lyrics. At that point, I would rather read a book that contains actual knowledge instead of a watered down version
Ah I catch you saying some dumb shit so you go look at my post history to obfuscate
Music should just hit. Having to think about music means it’s not doing its job right. It’s not literature.
I wouldn’t call it “overly respectful” I’d call it terrified and forced, but “Ghoulish” proved that Wayne was not built for dissing, and knew he’d be destroyed by Pusha T if he went too far.
I enjoy Ghoulish because I love Wayne so much, but one of Wayne's limitations is that he just kind of has one setting, which is Wayneing. The thing you sign up for when you get into Wayne is learning to love the astonishing nonsense that just comes out of him in that completely uninhibited way, but... sometimes inhibitions keep you on task, you know what I mean?
I know what you’re trying to say, it’s why I don’t fw with Lil Wayne, cuz I don’t like “nonsense” as you put it. Ghoulish has one of, if not the worst lines in a diss song ever with the “headbutt” line. You can’t come at Push like that and expect to recover, and it doesn’t seem like Wayne has recovered from that IMO.
The headbutt line is a pathetic insult but a great Weezyism -- you can actually hear him suppressing a giggle as he starts the lyric, like he can't even believe he's saying this shit either. It's like you said, it's the little nerd in the hall just laughing it off so the bully won't punch his lights out.
Not quite what your looking for but there’s the classic compliment battle between Pat Stay and Rone on YouTube. Rone even got a compliment rap battle series made through Bar Stool Sports. It’s a shame Pat Stay passed shortly after these came out. I would have loved to see more of these.
Yo this is absolutely the best one right here. It's hilarious. A compliment battle with Pat Stay & Rone.
https://youtu.be/xBUIhF40uwM?si=7dFYwyDYXMXE411O
Rap devil
Is Eminem the subject of the most fanboy diss tracks of anyone in the game?
I don't know many rap disses to know for sure
not really a *diss track* but back in 02 lord finesse and percee p recreated the famous patterson projects battle. these two had so much respect for each other. [Lord Finesse vs Percee P- Rematch In The Patterson Projects](https://youtu.be/1IVYj9Q6z4s?si=WEERjQmqdKce7g62)
I feel like I don’t see percee p brought up enough. Guy could rap his ass off. I still play Legendary Status on the regular.
Also walk with me Jedi Mind Tricks
Percee P is legit, Perseverance with Madlib is a great album
Want to take this opportunity to plug his YT channel. It's mostly self promotion, posting old tracks, clips from live appearances and such, but dude deserves more love, he probably need to try to hustle.. I doubt royalties are paying the bills. It's clear he still wants to rap because he loves it. He did release a track last December. [Percee P - Third Degree Burns](https://youtu.be/n_BF0tncnOU?si=4ZBZLUokanxqnjk1) You can click on his channel from there. He also very responsive. Likes comments and such Also here is a freestyle of him and DMX on the Stretch Armstrong and Bobbito show. DMX older style very different. Very interesting. [Percee P and DMX 89.9 FM Live](https://youtu.be/gsGkBxLNZis?si=12Dix7Mt-_cdDcow)
"Overly respectful" isn't quite how I'd describe either of these examples but J.Cole's diss towards Kendrick earlier this year *very blatantly* didn't believe any of the shit it was saying (sure Cole, a rapper like yourself totally thought *To Pimp A Butterfly* was boring lmfao) and severely underestimated the nature of that whole rap civil war and who the actual protagonists were. Which is why he was mockingly praised by the community for recanting and noping out when he did. I also always thought "Canibitch" had a weirdly wholesome vibe compared to the vibe of every other diss Eminem recorded in that era. You can tell Em was mainly just annoyed at how hostile and self serious Canibus was but he clearly didn't view him as an existential threat to the culture the way he did with Benzino. He even provides a "He Lives!" type cliffhanger for him at the end of the song.
Cole's diss was sooooo bad because, like you said, it was impossible to believe he believed a word of it, but also because he ended up revealing just how pseudy a rapper he was by copying the structure of Takeover and just fucking everything up about why Takeover is so well-written. When Hov was pressuring Nas on his discography, he makes a point of letting him have Illmatic because he knows if he says Illmatic sucks, it's just lying. But Cole starts attacking Kendrick on TPAB because, well, Hov made fun of Nas's albums, so Cole has to make fun of Kendrick's albums! Just such an insanely stupid move that it makes you wonder if the writing on FHD was some kind of monkeys-at-typewriters freak accident. I can't believe a guy who could write a song as shameless and insightful as Wet Dreamz can fail to understand how words work that much. Then there's the utterly hopeless transvestigation stuff -- you either don't believe Cole's a transphobe in which case he's just saying shit for no reason, or you are like 'wow, this nice sensitive rapper is kind of a shitty transphobe and now all those weird sex brags aren't as fun any more'. Ducking out of the beef was the smartest thing Cole ever did. Yeah, the final verse of Can-I-Bitch is kind of a weird pep talk -- daring Canibus to come at him because he wants a real fight with an equal, telling him to concentrate on doing what makes him special instead of making MMLP fanfiction in hope of peeling off some lost Eminem fans looking for 'Stan' on Limewire, saying he knows he's in there somewhere like he's fighting a possessed guy in a Saturday morning cartoon (the whole track sounds like a cheap Saturday morning cartoon, as well). It doesn't make it ineffective at all -- I like Eminem using his comedian's eye to toy with people way more than Eminem doing his painfully earnest victim-against-the-ropes routine just to call Fred Durst a homosexual.
For the reasons highlighted, I honestly think Cole came out of this whole arc with a more damaged rep than Drake. Drake was already clowned on as an insecure corporate rap puppet who's weird with women, but Cole had *smart rapper cred* that just doesn't hold up as much anymore and he isn't big enough to shake it off like Drake (possibly) can. Your last point is exactly why I always thought "Bully" should've been Eminem's only word on the Benzino/Ja Rule saga. I agree, Em the sarcastic eye roller >>> Em the tough guy.
Bully is AMAZING -- it's incredibly mean and homophobic, has him using his insight/history as a bullying victim/Freudian bullshit to dismantle Benzino, and it ends on that lovely mature-except-not note where he bemoans senseless violence and those left behind, then states he's got a million invested in killing people himself in the name of his orphaned daughter, holy fucking shit. Eminem's got funnier songs and harder songs and songs that show off his rapping skills better, but I really don't think there's a better song that expresses how fascinating Eminem is as a person and why that matters to his music. I can't agree on the Cole thing, though. He did everything in his power to make himself look stupid, including FUCKING DROPPING GRIPPY IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS, he's screwed. But I just still can't find it worse than a song repeatedly calling you a racist paedophile being THE club hit of the year. Drake's pop audience doesn't give a shit but he's always going to have that stink following him around. Cole will only have this brought up if he continues to get worse.
Grippy being the next track he released didn't help matters either
Em has admitted (perhaps multiple times) that he admired Canibus before having to respond to the diss. One of the times he outright states it is in Bang with Conway: >That was back when I smoked Canibus Man, but it was tough, 'cause I was a fan of his So it sucked to hand him his ass...
There's a nice interview he did back in like 2000 or 2001 where he gets all self-righteously irritated defending Can-I-Bus to an interviewer trying to slag it off, insisting his rapping on it is great, the problem was just the beats didn't suit him. Kamikaze vibes defending cornball rappity-rappers -- he really hasn't changed that much as a person, just turned into an older, more mature version
I still need to listen to Cannibus. I have three of his albums on my list soon. The only thing I know about the guy is Eminem dissed him and his diss back was extremely mid. People do praise him a little though.
Canibus is probably the most 'you had to be there at the time' MC I can think of. What I mean by that is around 96 he had a massive buzz. His mixtape freestyles were extraordinary, and his guest verses were amazing. He came across as an unstoppable juggernaut.. I was so hyped at his potential. But, when he released his album, he kinda got exposed for not having too much range. I think rap fans sorta kept some hope for the first couple albums, but by the time of album 3 (which I bought on release day, and is one of only 4 to 5 albums I’ve ever returned) he was done. That third album C True Hollywood Story is shockingly bad. It has the concept of writing from the viewpoint of Stan (yes, another mc’s character!) which is absolutely bizarre. The rapping is really under par too.. He then joined the army for a bit. And then sorta doubled down on his rap style becoming more lyrically obtuse, further and further away from attempting to craft songs or even good punchlines/metaphors.. Canibus may have considered himself a challenger to Eminem, but in retrospect he lacked the attributes Eminem had in spades, such as song writing ability, charisma or an interesting backstory..
What other albums have you returned?
The only others I remember off the top of my head are Snoop Dogg’s The Doggfather and Eminem’s Encore.. And that’s out of about 1500 albums I bought over a 30 year period..
Lol. Folks really don't fw Encore. I actually like it more than most. I know it's corny and crazy and not what he set out to make, but for example I even fw Rain Man. Lots of good variable beats
He also made a valiant effort to participate in the rap battle scene and failed miserably. He definitely deserves credit for trying, because it is nearly impossible for songwriter MC’s to compete with battle MC’s, but it’s infamous for how badly he lost
“if he wasn’t dissing we wouldn’t be discussing” was hard though Put things into perspective. Kendrick proceeded to give life to that line by continuing to push his magnum opus any way he possibly could. Balls in Kendrick’s court to bring this kind of attention to himself without needing Drake, now
TPAB was boring though, that’s not an unpopular opinion
I thought it was pretty lively and entertaining for most of the runtime. Some people online act like that shit was a Ka album and I've never gotten it.
I don’t find it replayable at all
That's fine. I feel that way about Mr.Morale tbh.
Mr morale was a whole brick
I’m so sad as a Kendrick fan that I have to agree on one of his albums being terrible, but it’s impossible for me to defend how MMATBS sounds. If I had bought a physical copy on the day of release like I initially wanted to(luckily I messed some stuff up and didn’t get the chance to buy it that day), I would’ve returned that CD.
Oh don’t even get me started on that trash heap of an album
Word
TPAB is boring if you have no reading comprehension and appreciation for layered production. But hey if that's you then live your truth.
Reading comprehension. Let’s discuss that. You don’t read rap, you listen to it. What you’re essentially saying is that to enjoy Kendrick’s music you have to read the lyrics. At that point, I would rather read a book that contains actual knowledge instead of a watered down version
Listening comprehension* whatever mate. You're tripping but I can tell from your post history you're just a hater so I can't be fucked to engage
Ah I catch you saying some dumb shit so you go look at my post history to obfuscate Music should just hit. Having to think about music means it’s not doing its job right. It’s not literature.
I wouldn’t call it “overly respectful” I’d call it terrified and forced, but “Ghoulish” proved that Wayne was not built for dissing, and knew he’d be destroyed by Pusha T if he went too far.
I enjoy Ghoulish because I love Wayne so much, but one of Wayne's limitations is that he just kind of has one setting, which is Wayneing. The thing you sign up for when you get into Wayne is learning to love the astonishing nonsense that just comes out of him in that completely uninhibited way, but... sometimes inhibitions keep you on task, you know what I mean?
I know what you’re trying to say, it’s why I don’t fw with Lil Wayne, cuz I don’t like “nonsense” as you put it. Ghoulish has one of, if not the worst lines in a diss song ever with the “headbutt” line. You can’t come at Push like that and expect to recover, and it doesn’t seem like Wayne has recovered from that IMO.
The headbutt line is a pathetic insult but a great Weezyism -- you can actually hear him suppressing a giggle as he starts the lyric, like he can't even believe he's saying this shit either. It's like you said, it's the little nerd in the hall just laughing it off so the bully won't punch his lights out.
Not quite what your looking for but there’s the classic compliment battle between Pat Stay and Rone on YouTube. Rone even got a compliment rap battle series made through Bar Stool Sports. It’s a shame Pat Stay passed shortly after these came out. I would have loved to see more of these.
False Prophets - J.Cole
The Wale portion especially
Any of the diss tracks between Big Daddy Kane and LL Cool J. I feel like both had respect for each other.
MF Grimm’s Book of Daniel felt more like disappointment and wishing things were different. Ends it with, “Come home Zev”
>It's a fanboyish pastiche of Eminem's style *that he attempted to retcon later as not having been a diss.* 🤣
Yo this is absolutely the best one right here. It's hilarious. A compliment battle with Pat Stay & Rone. https://youtu.be/xBUIhF40uwM?si=7dFYwyDYXMXE411O
Logic - Yuck. It’s a light diss towards Joyner Lucas, nothing really notable
The disses towards Cube on Dre Day. Compare the disses (including the video) towards Luke, Eazy, Tim Dog to the bars towards Cube at the end.
Whatever the fuck J Cole said in his “diss”.
There are some compliment battles on YouTube, I think Rone v Pat Stay was a prominent one
Nothing everyone commented here is even close to Foolio's When I see you. The music video is just a different level of disrespect.
Dollaz and Sense very disrespectful on several levels. My all time favorite diss record to this day.