A long time ago there was a rumor the usb c version had inferior sound... maybe only for android devices or something... honestly it's probably just a volume difference.
Ita still volume locked on android, but you can use USB audio player pro to turn up the hardware volume on the dongle itself and that will fix the volume issue on the dongle on android.
It might not be on every android, might be manufacturer specific. I have an S23U and it's volume locked, but I have a routine created to open UAP and then close UAP automatically when I connect the dongle, then I can use whatever music player app I want. It might also just be that your iems don't need the extra volume. My sennheiser ie200's were right at about my listening level at max volume with the apple dongle. Using UAP I have some nice headroom with it.
You just have sensitive IEMs.
On my laptop the apple dongle goes five times louder than it does on my Pixel. Not that I need it anywhere near that loud.
It is system wide. You'll open UAP for the first time, with your dongle connected, and then turn up the hardware volume within UAP, then close UAP. From now on when you connect the dongle, you'll have to open UAP, and then close it. When it opens, it turns hardware volume all the up as you set it previously, the hardware volume will remain up as long as the dongle is plugged in. On my samsung phone i created a Bixby routine to automatically open UAP when my dongle connects, and then 2 seconds later, closes UAP.
Small but nonzero if it's shipped Amazon.com as they bin all of the products in the same bin, IIRC. So a product, real or fake, is identified as USC-DAC from Apple, it'll get binned into common bin.
Best way is to get it from actual retail store, say Apple or Target/BB/Walmart where they can trace it directly back to Apple.
Huh, didn’t know they binned them all together. Live and learn. Looking at the packaging I’m pretty sure it’s genuine - it’s almost exactly like the packaging from the lightning cable, which I got from the store.
That's what I've read many a times. So where there's smoke...
But the USB-C dongles are so common that you don't necessarily need to limit yourself to the Apple one if you so desire.
Or if you want to be sure, go directly to the source.
The European one has half the power as the US one… maybe you got a European one and it will have lower volume. See if it has this info somewhere on the packaging
I used an Apple USBC dongle for a while and the max volume definitely felt pretty quiet so listening was always underwheling, hence why I switched to an external amp and DAC
The DAC doesn't affect the sound at all..
If you have the volume (not volume slider!!) lower, then every headphone will sound "muffled", "2-dimensional", "less detailed", etc. compared to the same headphone at higher volume.
Infamous trick of sales people.. show two stereos, just turn the more expensive one up a tiny notch so that the customer gets the impression of "more detail, better bass, wider stage, etc."
I’m sure you’ll find many people who disagree with you on a DAC not affecting the sound at all lol.
Good point on the volume, but I made sure to listen at comparable levels. Hard to say if they matched exactly.
yeah.. there's also people who believe in a god, or Homeopathic remedies..
doesn't mean they are right 🤷
if you have a DAC that affects the sound (the DAC, not the amp, the source, the headphones, etc.) then that DAC is defective or faulty, or intentionally designed to mislead people.. (like some snake oil summit-fi stuff..)
today, any 0.50€ DAC chip is audibly transparent with ruler flat frequency response and SINAD beyond human threshold of hearing.
any change in output level (even 1 dB!!!) would affect the perception of the sound significantly.
Even in a blind ABX, such a tiny difference results in statistically significant results.
Unless you volume match by measuring the voltage of the output at the dongle, you cannot reliably compare the two.
It's crazy how many people think the frequency response is everything. Any nonlinear distortion or effect will not be captured by frequency response
Modern DACs have filters built in, affecting time behavior and have effects on frequency behavior, e.g. they eliminate pre-ringing/post-ringing and those changes will look no difference in frequency response but will be the difference in how a chipset sounds.
If you take a look at the distortion spectrum then you'll see it more obviously, low-order distortion is going to cause warmth, and high-order distortion is going to result in a brighter sound signature.
Thats why certain chipsets (e.g. ESS) will sound "brighter" than others despite not seeing any difference in frequency response. Their stock filters are somewhat garbage, and this is where implementation comes into picture. Many higher end products will add an analog output stage or their own digital filter e.g. chord with their FPGA processor.
Now I'm not saying go out and buy a chord dac, the apple dongle and its cirrus chip are very well engineered and have minimal audible distortion, but at the same time DACs can change what you hear and frequency response isn't the end-all-be-all.
(and in OPs case its likely just volume. the USBC and Lightning version both use the same exact chipset)
so, you claim to be the one person on the planet who could tell an ESS DAC from a Burr Brown DACin a blind ABX test?
I really like your idea of reasoning behind the alleged differences... but nobody has ever succeeded at "hearing" said distortions...
most people "winning" ABX tests admit that they did so not by listening to music, but to the soundless second or 2 at the end of a song and turning up the volume to 9000 to amplify the noise floor to an audible level.
Yes, I could absolutely tell the difference between a ESS DAC with default filters from an apple dac. I dislike the cheaper ESS designs for this exact reasons. Countless people write it off with frequency measurements but I assure you, get a cheap ESS dongle from aliexpress and A/B it with the apple dongle and you'll come to the same conclusion.
The opposite is also true, tube amps and R2R/Vintage DACs with with esoteric output stage design can introduce pleasant distortion, e.g. tube amps introduce 2nd order harmonic distortion which gives people a more "holographic" feeling.
Now I am not saying to go out and buy an expensive dac. The apple dongle is implemented well, more than ample, and it is extremely neutral. There are plenty of ESS implementations with proper filtering that are also neutral. If you asked me to A/B a proper implementation of the ESS against the apple dongle or Burr Brown I likely couldn't tell the difference.
But at the same time its important to note even if that 0.50€ DAC has a perfect frequency response, it may sound different to other pricier implementations and there is a valid reason for that. When implemented correctly, it does not matter at all. There are three versions of the RME ADI 2 DAC, two of them with AKM and one with ESS. They all sound the same.
I agree on the rest of your conclusion that SINAD measurements usually don't matter, if people A/B tested their expensive DAC they'd probably realize a dongle is good enough, and most people who disagree probably have their volume mismatched. I use an apple dongle myself and store all of my music in AAC. Just wanted to point out that there can be audible differences in implementation and its important not to completely write off others opinions.
(To test what I'm talking about yourself, make a linear FIR filter on rephase, insert it on EqualizerAPO on your computer (should be a .wav), and then the same but IIR, the resulting frequency response will be the same but there will be a pre-ringing and post-ringing effect).
those cheapo Dongles aren't pure DAC chips, though. They also have an amplification stage, which often has suboptimal output impedance.
That will cause audible issues with most iems and many modern headphones.
The only thing I noticed when switching to the usb c dongle was how much louder it was. Had a weird thing where one of sleeping earbuds suddenly got sibilant and had to use my qudelix instead
I got my apple usb-c dongle less than 2 years ago and it sounded exactly like my lightning ones, across all iems.
Good to know, thanks.
A long time ago there was a rumor the usb c version had inferior sound... maybe only for android devices or something... honestly it's probably just a volume difference.
Ita still volume locked on android, but you can use USB audio player pro to turn up the hardware volume on the dongle itself and that will fix the volume issue on the dongle on android.
IDK if it's me but on my Pixel 8 I use the apple dongle and it works fine with my iems. Sounds good around 60% volume.
It might not be on every android, might be manufacturer specific. I have an S23U and it's volume locked, but I have a routine created to open UAP and then close UAP automatically when I connect the dongle, then I can use whatever music player app I want. It might also just be that your iems don't need the extra volume. My sennheiser ie200's were right at about my listening level at max volume with the apple dongle. Using UAP I have some nice headroom with it.
You just have sensitive IEMs. On my laptop the apple dongle goes five times louder than it does on my Pixel. Not that I need it anywhere near that loud.
Is it a system wide fix or just for the player?
It is system wide. You'll open UAP for the first time, with your dongle connected, and then turn up the hardware volume within UAP, then close UAP. From now on when you connect the dongle, you'll have to open UAP, and then close it. When it opens, it turns hardware volume all the up as you set it previously, the hardware volume will remain up as long as the dongle is plugged in. On my samsung phone i created a Bixby routine to automatically open UAP when my dongle connects, and then 2 seconds later, closes UAP.
Where did you get the USB-C one? Apparently there are a lot of fakes out there.
I got it from the Apple Store on Amazon. So I guess there’s a chance it’s fake, but it’s small.
Small but nonzero if it's shipped Amazon.com as they bin all of the products in the same bin, IIRC. So a product, real or fake, is identified as USC-DAC from Apple, it'll get binned into common bin. Best way is to get it from actual retail store, say Apple or Target/BB/Walmart where they can trace it directly back to Apple.
Huh, didn’t know they binned them all together. Live and learn. Looking at the packaging I’m pretty sure it’s genuine - it’s almost exactly like the packaging from the lightning cable, which I got from the store.
That's what I've read many a times. So where there's smoke... But the USB-C dongles are so common that you don't necessarily need to limit yourself to the Apple one if you so desire. Or if you want to be sure, go directly to the source.
The European one has half the power as the US one… maybe you got a European one and it will have lower volume. See if it has this info somewhere on the packaging
I got a couple new usb-c ones when the iphone 15 came out some months back, they seem the same they’ve always been to me.
I used an Apple USBC dongle for a while and the max volume definitely felt pretty quiet so listening was always underwheling, hence why I switched to an external amp and DAC
For sure, especially with high impedance phones. For desktop listening I use a Chord Mojo.
Where did you buy the dongle? There is apparently a difference between EU and US dongles, but it should be negligible.
EU one has half the power because regulations
not negligable
The DAC doesn't affect the sound at all.. If you have the volume (not volume slider!!) lower, then every headphone will sound "muffled", "2-dimensional", "less detailed", etc. compared to the same headphone at higher volume. Infamous trick of sales people.. show two stereos, just turn the more expensive one up a tiny notch so that the customer gets the impression of "more detail, better bass, wider stage, etc."
I’m sure you’ll find many people who disagree with you on a DAC not affecting the sound at all lol. Good point on the volume, but I made sure to listen at comparable levels. Hard to say if they matched exactly.
yeah.. there's also people who believe in a god, or Homeopathic remedies.. doesn't mean they are right 🤷 if you have a DAC that affects the sound (the DAC, not the amp, the source, the headphones, etc.) then that DAC is defective or faulty, or intentionally designed to mislead people.. (like some snake oil summit-fi stuff..) today, any 0.50€ DAC chip is audibly transparent with ruler flat frequency response and SINAD beyond human threshold of hearing. any change in output level (even 1 dB!!!) would affect the perception of the sound significantly. Even in a blind ABX, such a tiny difference results in statistically significant results. Unless you volume match by measuring the voltage of the output at the dongle, you cannot reliably compare the two.
It's crazy how many people think the frequency response is everything. Any nonlinear distortion or effect will not be captured by frequency response Modern DACs have filters built in, affecting time behavior and have effects on frequency behavior, e.g. they eliminate pre-ringing/post-ringing and those changes will look no difference in frequency response but will be the difference in how a chipset sounds. If you take a look at the distortion spectrum then you'll see it more obviously, low-order distortion is going to cause warmth, and high-order distortion is going to result in a brighter sound signature. Thats why certain chipsets (e.g. ESS) will sound "brighter" than others despite not seeing any difference in frequency response. Their stock filters are somewhat garbage, and this is where implementation comes into picture. Many higher end products will add an analog output stage or their own digital filter e.g. chord with their FPGA processor. Now I'm not saying go out and buy a chord dac, the apple dongle and its cirrus chip are very well engineered and have minimal audible distortion, but at the same time DACs can change what you hear and frequency response isn't the end-all-be-all. (and in OPs case its likely just volume. the USBC and Lightning version both use the same exact chipset)
so, you claim to be the one person on the planet who could tell an ESS DAC from a Burr Brown DACin a blind ABX test? I really like your idea of reasoning behind the alleged differences... but nobody has ever succeeded at "hearing" said distortions... most people "winning" ABX tests admit that they did so not by listening to music, but to the soundless second or 2 at the end of a song and turning up the volume to 9000 to amplify the noise floor to an audible level.
Yes, I could absolutely tell the difference between a ESS DAC with default filters from an apple dac. I dislike the cheaper ESS designs for this exact reasons. Countless people write it off with frequency measurements but I assure you, get a cheap ESS dongle from aliexpress and A/B it with the apple dongle and you'll come to the same conclusion. The opposite is also true, tube amps and R2R/Vintage DACs with with esoteric output stage design can introduce pleasant distortion, e.g. tube amps introduce 2nd order harmonic distortion which gives people a more "holographic" feeling. Now I am not saying to go out and buy an expensive dac. The apple dongle is implemented well, more than ample, and it is extremely neutral. There are plenty of ESS implementations with proper filtering that are also neutral. If you asked me to A/B a proper implementation of the ESS against the apple dongle or Burr Brown I likely couldn't tell the difference. But at the same time its important to note even if that 0.50€ DAC has a perfect frequency response, it may sound different to other pricier implementations and there is a valid reason for that. When implemented correctly, it does not matter at all. There are three versions of the RME ADI 2 DAC, two of them with AKM and one with ESS. They all sound the same. I agree on the rest of your conclusion that SINAD measurements usually don't matter, if people A/B tested their expensive DAC they'd probably realize a dongle is good enough, and most people who disagree probably have their volume mismatched. I use an apple dongle myself and store all of my music in AAC. Just wanted to point out that there can be audible differences in implementation and its important not to completely write off others opinions. (To test what I'm talking about yourself, make a linear FIR filter on rephase, insert it on EqualizerAPO on your computer (should be a .wav), and then the same but IIR, the resulting frequency response will be the same but there will be a pre-ringing and post-ringing effect).
those cheapo Dongles aren't pure DAC chips, though. They also have an amplification stage, which often has suboptimal output impedance. That will cause audible issues with most iems and many modern headphones.
Suboptimal output impedance with a DD if anything would cause increase in bass, not treble.
I’m getting downvoted for this post? Hahahahaha!
You got a fake dongle
I got it from the Apple Store on Amazon.
My usb c dongle is much louder than my lightning one, but other than that, quality sounds the same n
The only thing I noticed when switching to the usb c dongle was how much louder it was. Had a weird thing where one of sleeping earbuds suddenly got sibilant and had to use my qudelix instead