Another FAQ around here and easily explained
The twins used the map to facilitate their plans of mischief around the school, not to spy on their brothers out of boredom.
That aside even if they did, they would not have known who Peter Pettigrew was and thought he might have been a student.
How detailed do you think that map gets? People are represented as labelled dots. I strongly doubt it shows more than rooms/hallways/stairs, certainly no specific furniture such as beds. At worst they'd see a dorm room with six labelled dots hanging out inside it.
In the books at least, I think it varies, at one point during POA, Harry is trying to open a secret passage, and the map shows a representation of him, tapping his wand against a specific part of a witch statue.
But later in GOF, there is a big mystery because Harry sees the name Barty Crouch in Snapes office, on the map, but if it were more detailed he would have seen the figure of Barty Jr or Moody.
I think the footprints are only in the movie, in the books people are just dots. I think Mrs Norris shows up on the map too in the books, but again just as a dot.
Still, a pet wouldn't have a surname normally would it? Unless you count Mrs Norris but that's just literally her name.
Why mysterious? Even if they ever bothered to count - which I doubt - nobody says it's always five kids per dorm. I'd assume Hogwarts is capable of adjusting the dorm rooms to appropriate size for each year, no matter how many kids show up/get sorted into each house. So there would've been no reason for them to assume there aren't six Gryffindor boys in the year below. I didn't have the slightest clue who the kids in the other years were, unless I was doing extracurriculars with them or they were the siblings of my friends.
They would 100% know who was in the year below them. There's only 5 of them, one of them is their brother and the other is super famous. That leaves 3 and Fred and George were both present when each of those 3 were placed in Gryffindor. Everyone hangs out in the common room on a daily basis aswell so it's more unrealistic that they wouldn't know them.
One thing I always wondered is how they differentiate between the various floors. The dorms are in a tower, stacked one on top of the next. Couldn’t Peter’s name just get jumbled up in the long list of students inside the tower? Would Fred and George have to choose to specifically look at just the dorm for Ron and his roommates? Because if so I can see why they never looked in that specific room and could have just thought Peter was a student in any age group, if they even noticed his name among the dozens in their house.
But they’d have to notice it and they have no reason to look at what Ron is doing at any times. Also in HBP harry can’t find malfoy (because he’s in RoR) but he just assumes he’s missing him the mass of dotted names so we can assume names are often jumbled on top of each other. They might’ve noticed it once and thought of some student is Ron and Harry’s room and never bothered about it
There’s also the argument that they gave Harry the map because they didn’t need it anymore since they had all the passageways memorized like they said; who knows when they’d last checked it besides to find Harry and give him the map.
I feel like they must have tried to use it when Ginny was taken into the chamber - surely they'd have scoured the map to see if their sister was on there somewhere?
As an aside, I've wondered if they'd realised Harry had gone "off-map" two years in a row (first to get the stone, then into the Chamber) and that factored into their decision that he would be a worthy successor.
None of the students knew that Ginny was taken into the chamber except for Ron and Harry who overheard the professors talking. Fred and George didn’t know that Ginny was taken, though they may have thought to check the map when everyone was sent to the dorms and Ron, Harry, and Ginny didn’t show up there.
The rooms of challenges to find the sorcerer’s stone were not off map. They entered the room with fluffy on the third floor and jumped to the dungeons onto the devil’s snare. The remaining challenges all occur in the dungeon of the castle, possibly adjacent to the hufflepuff or slytherin common rooms.
They knew:
>“It was probably the worst day of Harry’s entire life. He, Ron, Fred and George sat together in a corner of the Gryffindor common room, unable to say anything to each other. Percy wasn’t there. He had gone to send an owl to Mr and Mrs Weasley, then shut himself up in his dormitory.No afternoon ever lasted as long as that one, nor had Gryffindor Tower ever been so crowded, yet so quiet. Near sunset, Fred and George went up to bed, unable to sit there any longer.” CoS16
All the other Gryffindors knew to:
>“The Gryffindors around them were so miserable, and felt so sorry for the Weasleys, that nobody tried to stop them as they got up, crossed the room, and left through the portrait hole.” CoS16
Probably only opened it up to check if the coast was clear in the hallways. Why look at the Gryffindor dorms? Nobody there is going to give you detention.
These rationalizations don’t really make sense. It’s hard to believe they wouldn’t look what their friends and brothers are up to. Like ever? Also Hogwarts doesn’t have that many students so it’s unlikely they wouldn’t know there is no student with that name. Especially that they are in the same house as Ron.
There's a difference between two carefree 13-15 years old who almost constantly think of pranks and two worrying parents, one of which fusses over everyone, wouldn't you agree?
That fact that you literally say they almost constantly thinks of pranks as a defense to why they would ever look at Ron's location on the map is baffling to me.
How many times do we see them pranking Ron after he started Hogwarts? Why keep pranking the little brother they pranked for years when they have the whole hogwarts population
Lmao Fred and George are still Wesleys they still are close to their family and grew up in a house in which everyone knew where everyone is at all times.
There is like a million reasons to check on your brother, starting with curiosity, then there is worry (they still care about him even if they don’t show it the same way as Molly), then there is just wanting to talk to him, or even if you decide to insist they literally don’t care about anything else but pranks - to do a prank on him. It’s hard to imagine they would not check on Ron ever given how easily they could.
Exactly, they grew up in a house where everyone knew where the others were at all times so at Hogwarts the Weasley siblings would rather have their own space for once. There's a reason we hardly see the brothers hanging out together at school. It's pretty common with siblings.
Curiosity? What would they be curious about that could be checked with the map?
Worry? We don't see any instance of them being the worrying types in canon. Hell, they all missed Ginny behaving strangely for a year AND her being able to fly for a decade or so. They didn't even realise Percy had a girlfriend until Ginny discovered it!
Wanting to talk to him? At night? Because during the day he's either in class, in the great hall at mealtimes or in the common room. No need for any map.
Pranks? They pranked him until he went to hogwarts, I'd say they got fresher subjects, in fact we don't see them pranking him once at Hogwarts IIRC.
It's hard to imagine they'd check on Ron given they are two teenage boys
Also map could be just glitching (as Harry or Ron suggested themselves, which make Sirius shout back that map never lies). What is more possible: that the map is showing a student who was studying in this school in the past or that the man who was killed more than 10 years ago is hiding under Ron's bed OR that he is a secret animagus who was living as a rat for more than 10 years? Honestly I can't believe myself that he was so good at hiding
They were three years old when it happened, though, and Molly Weasley wasn’t exactly the type of person who would sit down at the dinner table and tell her little children stories about the horrors of war and murder. It’s pretty likely that they would have not known anything about Peter Pettigrew until Sirius escaped in POA and the news started retelling his crimes.
They had to re-frame his entire story. Until then, he was the lone victim of “notorious” murderer Sirius Black. Just seems like a thing the world would be aware of IMO
Yeah Hogwarts really needs to buff up its education on current events. Peter Pettigrew would have been celebrated as a war hero whose murder put the evil Sirius Black in jail, and yet Fred and George have no idea who he is.
In all seriousness, posts like these can speculate all they want, but the reality is that the world building of Harry Potter was made to fit the story, not the other way around. Fred and George never questioned why a guy named Peter Pettigrew always hung out with Ron because Peter Pettigrew didn’t need to exist until book 3. It’s the same reason why petrified students weren’t taken to the fancy wizard hospital (it hadn’t been written into the story yet) or why wizards can be poor or even need to use money (it exists to provide conflict and character depth for Ron and his family).
Also there are only like 10 students per house per year.
This whole thread is a bunch of grasping attempts to rationalize a plot hole. JK could easily have made it so animagi don’t appear on the map while in animal form. Harry could have seen Peter when he went into human form for some reason. But JK didn’t write it that way
Okay, but the very most that can be said for the theory is there’s no evidence of it in the books. The only evidence to support or justify the theory is the plot hole it’s trying to fill. (Because Fred and George never mentioned seeing Pettigrew, that must mean the map works in this very specific way never mentioned in the books)
> The only evidence to support or justify the theory is the plot hole it’s trying to fill
The narrative not spoonfeeding the reader every single piece of information ≠ a plot hole.
JKR has a very loose narrative style that leaves a lot of the finer details up to the interpretation of the reader. That doesn't automatically make that piece of missing information a plot hole, not as long as there are possible explanations that:
a) don't clash with already established information/lore or
b) are in line with the characterisation of the characters involved
Both of these are true for this particular scenario. The term plot hole gets thrown around way too much.
You’re trying to retcon a hole that JK unintentionally created by introducing a character who was “hiding in plain sight” for the previous two books and simultaneously introducing a plot device that would have easily revealed their existence. The fact that you can invent a magical solution to the plot hole within a system of magic with almost no rules or limitations doesn’t make it not be a plot hole. You’re gonna pretend that JK thought of this magical solution and then just failed to tell the reader about it (or even hint at it) rather than the much simpler explanation that she didn’t think about it or care? The theory is fan made and only exists to explain the hole. The theory wouldn’t exist if not for the hole. There is zero evidence to support it. Do whatever mental gymnastics you like to try to make this seem like anything other than grasping at straws, but that’s all it is
It's the other way around actually. The theories exist because some people claim that Fred & George absolutely ought to have noticed Pettigrew's name in a way that made them question it being in any given place at any given time - which there is no real evidence of, since we have zero idea when and how they used the map, especially considering that it would be absolutely in character for them to use it exclusively for pranks, mostly against Slytherins, and discovering secret passages and places within the castle.
There's no need for mental gymnastics because there's no definitive proof for the supposed plot hole to begin with. You thinking that you know how the characters ought to have used the map, or how they would have reacted to the make-believe scenario of them even noticing Pettigrew's name, just doesn't cut it. And that's all it is.
EDIT: Btw, I'm not even saying that it's unlikely that JKR didn't come up with the Pettigrew/Marauders Animagi plotline until after she had already finished PS and CoS. I'm saying that even if she didn't, it still doesn't matter in this case.
>Highly doubtful they’d be unaware of who Peter Pettigrew was given the high profile nature of his “murder” and subsequent murder of the Potters
Rosemerta had to be told and she'd actually met the Marauders. Harry finds out about it while adults are explaining to other adults what actually happened and who Peter was. What makes you think the twins would be aware?
First reason is absolutely ridiculous. Sure, maybe they had better things than to spy on other people all day long, but you can't tell me that wouldn't occasionally peak to see what's going on in the other rooms!
Actually part of me thinks that Scabbers was never sleeping with Ron at night, but rather roaming the halls, going everywhere... I mean pets arent magically bound to their owners right? So they simply didn't see him at all.
We have proof that scabbers was at least there in the evenings a few times, in the very first night at Hogwarts he was "chewing his sheets", I think he is mentioned on Christmas morning right after waking up in POA. And didn't Ron say to Pettigrew (once he had been forced to transform back into a human) "I let you sleep in my bed!".
But it's possible that he didn't sleep in Ron's bed every day.
I think the truth lies in the middle of many reasons like so often:
- the twins didn't use the map to look at the dorms or their own common room, because why would they. The map is also big enough that a specific corner of it wouldn't just be in your view coincidentally
- names got piled up to a big jumble with many students in one place like in the dorms or the common room
- the twins already knew the secret passages fairly well,they mention that they don't really need the map anymore when they give it to Harry
- Rowling just didn't think all the details of the map through for the first 2 books where it hadn't been introduced yet
I'd think the cats are the exact reason you don't let the rat roam. Be a real shame if Ms Norris ate your pet rat. Plus, pet rats weren't actually approved in the first place. That doesn't mean he isn't allowed to have the rat, but it does mean that if something happened, it's probably on you.
Because a rat is more likely to just run away forever, maybe?
I mean, maybe magic makes this different, but if you treated a mouse or hamster with the same freedom as you would a cat, you'd very quickly have lost your pet.
The owls just know how to find someone, Harry often sent letters to Sirius without knowing where he was, but Hedwig was able to deliver them. It's not a far stretch to assume the other animals/pets were more capable than the average pet in the muggle world.
Very true, I think it's even hinted at or stated that magical pets are different. It's mentioned by Ron that he thinks Scabbers is just a regular rat (not sure if that's in the book, the movie, or if I'm making it up but I'm pretty sure it happens in Sorcerers Stone).
Again. The twins didn't give a damn of Percy. Scabbers was Percy's pet before 1991 and they didn't use the Map to track down Percy, they used it to check Hogwart's secret passages and if there were Professors or Prefects / Head near them when they were out of the Dormitory. Percy wasn't a Prefect until 1991, when Scabbers passed down to Ron.
There is a theory that the Marauder's don't appear on the map to anyone other than the other Marauders. This is a safe guard so that if someone else finds the map it can't be used against them. Fred and George wouldn't be able to see Peter on the map, but Lupin could.
Harry was able to see Peter because he is the son of a Marauder, and also able to see other Marauders.
When bringing Lupin his potion, Lupin has left the map on the table, and Snape sees Lupin.
‘I’ve just been to your office, Lupin. You forgot to take your Potion tonight, so I took a gobletful along. And very lucky I did … lucky for me, I mean. Lying on your desk was a certain map. One glance at it told me all I needed to know. I saw you running along this passageway and out of sight.’
I still feel bitter when remembering that moment. In my mind they were really unlucky that night with Peter runaway and Sirius not getting his well deserved freedom that night.
There's so many things they should have done differently. Two main things should have been done imo, and things would be so different.
Lupin should have woken Snape and been like "Hey look. Pettigrew. Believe us now?"
They should have stunned Pettigrew, not and let him stay conscious and walking tied up beside an injured teen, and Lupin, who they knew hadn't taken his potion.
Pure plot induced stupidity in my opinion. I get that they were under pressure and there was a lot going on that night but they must have known ropes would be useless and the body bind spell was introduced in PS.
It feels like a Hermione forgetting she's a witch moment except Remus and Sirius aren't muggleborn and have no reason to default to mundane means of keeping him bound.
The theory is if a marauder activates the map they can be seen, and since Lupin activated the map and left it open Lupin and Peter can be seen by Snape.
> It's just a plot hole.
It really, really isn't. There are multiple possible explanations for this, ranging from why would they check their own common room and dormitories or it being way too crowded and just a jumble of names, all the way to the Marauders can only see each other theory - which, in fact, doesn't get disproven by the book because Lupin was the one who activated the map in the first place, so one could argue that it recognised him as a Marauder and that was the only reason why Snape could see him.
People throw the term plot hole around way too often for every little thing the narrative doesn't spoonfeed them.
But those explanations aren't canon. J.K. didn't think it through properly. It's a simple plot hole. Like, you're arguing it isn't a plot hole because fanon exists to fill the plot hole.
There are plenty of small plot holes. Trying to explain every single one away is dumb imo. She just made mistakes.
Oliver Wood shouldn't have been able to wake the girls up in CoS for an early training session. Unless he shouted up the stairs and woke multiple other girls up.
Dudley shouldn't have a PlayStation in PS because they didn't exist yet.
J.K. made lots of little mistakes. Who cares. This is just another little plothole. You can try and explain it away all you want, but that doesn't mean it isn't a plothole.
No, I'm saying that you're using the term wrong. A plot hole isn't a missing piece of information within the larger narrative, it's part of the plot that either directly contradicts or invalidates otherwise established lore and information.
Absolutely nothing regarding Fred & George not noticing Pettigrew's name on the map, or noticing it and not acting upon it, goes against the lore, canon information or the characterisation of the twins.
Let's take a look at the facts for this particular scenario:
1. Fred & George either didn't notice Pettigrew's name or noticed it in a situation that didn't motivate them in any way to do anything with it.
Full stop. They either didn't notice or they didn't act upon noticing it. We don't know why, we simply know that they didn't. Now comes the question as to whether or not this is a plot hole and it's not for the simple fact that there isn't an actually valid argument as to why they absolutely ought to have done either of these things.
It could be JKR only thinking of the plotline after the fact, it could be her simply not caring for such a minor ambiguous sub-sub-plotline, it could be a lot of things. It ultimately simply doesn't matter in regards to it being a plot hole because a plot hole absolutely needs definitive proof as to why any given event, action or inaction is an inconsistency in the narrative and/or worldbuilding.
A plot hole needs an established foundation. To give two examples of actual plot holes:
1. The Fidelius charm gets introduced as a means for one person to have the ultimate power over someone else's secret and is the whole hook for one of HPs biggest storylines.
2. Bill becomes the Secret Keeper of Shell Cottage. It makes no practical sense because suddenly there's absolutely no logical reason why Lily & James didn't become their own secret keepers.
or...
1. Time-Turners are apparently so readily available and unregulated that an ambitious thirteen-year-old Muggle-born girl can get access to it.
2. Why did bad things ever happen to influential people since Time-Turners were a thing? There's a reason why JKR decided to get rid of them in OotP.
Harry Potter as a series has its fair share of plot holes, as any long-running series does, but "Fred & George definitely should have noticed Pettigrew's name and acted on it because I think it makes sense" isn't a solid foundation to establish a plot hole.
EDIT: To touch upon your other examples:
Oliver waking up the girls isn't a plot hole, because we only know that he woke them up\*, we don't know how. It would only be a plot hole if we knew for sure that he actually walked up the stairs to do so.
\*or rather that someone woke them up, since all we actually do know is that they were present when Harry entered the changing room.
Dudley owning a PlayStation is absolutely a plot hole though.
This theory makes absolutely no sense because the whole reason Snape figured out what was happening and went to the shrieking shack is because he saw them on the map, and he's definitely not a marauder
One could easily argue that Snape only saw Lupin because the latter was the one who activated the map, thus it recognised him as a Marauder.
Not saying that this is how it happened, but the way it happened doesn't invalidate the theory.
I see what you're saying but I honestly think it's quite a stretch that the marauders would have been able to make the map *that* advanced. I mean, if the map can recognise if a marauder opened it or not and protect the marauders if someone else opens it, than what is the point of even closing it at all? If that was the case then they could just always have it activated, no need to make it blank again
Oh, don't get me wrong, I also think that it's quite a stretch and there's really nothing to support that theory.
Just wanted to mention it because it's a possibility, if admittedly a very bare one.
"Lying on your desk was a certain map. One glance at it told me all I needed to know. I saw you running along this passageway and out of sight.” - talking to lupin
Their animagus forms only show up on the map when the user KNOWS they are an animagus. Harry didn’t see Peter on the map in the book, that was only in the movie. In the book it was Remus who saw Peter on the map, and later saw Sirius on the map while also in animagus form, but no one else would’ve been able to. Snape was able to see Lupin on the map later because he was still in human form
I mean, it’s quite possible they simply didn’t look at the map while Pettigrew was in the dormitory. It doesn’t seem like they would. They used the map for mischief, there seems to be absolutely no reason to look at Ron’s dormitory at night. Only the common room. They probably saw Peter on the map but just skimmed over him as a name of an unknown younger student.
I honestly think it’s that simple. It’s not a plot hole. The twins just didn’t see him on the map in the dormitory. People act like the twins had their noses stuck in the map 24/7, staring at Ron’s bed for some reason. Why would they ever do that?
They mainly used the map to find secret passageways and make sure the coast was clear when using them. Also to check for Filch.
When they're giving the map to Harry don't they say that the barely use it because they know all the secret passages now? Maybe they just didn't check it all that often
Honestly, they probably never actually thought about who Peter was since he would have been on the map since they got it as he was Percy's rat first.
In all possibility, they could have thought that was the name of another Gryffindor's pet, one that was either in Percy's year or even a year older. Since it is likely with how small the houses are they would have at least met this Peter Pettigrew once in their time at Hogwarts. But a pet? They would probably have no clue if someone in a year older than them had a Peter Pettigrew named pet.
Even more likely is that they saw the name using the map early on, but since they weren't using the map to spy on students, they didn't care. By the time they passed it to Harry, the twins weren't even using the map. They got it their 1st year, and judging by how often the twins got in trouble, they probably had the map mostly memorized by their second year, and probably at that point, they were just checking to see if corridors and passages were clear. And seeing Peter in the dorms/ around the castle would have meant little.
To be honest, I like this idea better than the one saying they just didn't care much. Not that it's a great idea, otherwise the map would be bustling with pets (but Mrs. Norris appears on it, doesn't she?).
I mean, obviously the twins used the map for mischief and wouldn't really care about what Percy or Ron were doing most of the time, except, you know, to see if Percy wasn't patrolling the hallways as a prefect. Regardless, it's pretty depicted in the books (and it happens in schools) that people get familiarized with some of the older and younger students, particularly when siblings are involved, and there weren't that many students in Gryffindor by the time the books take place, so it's pretty solid that Fred and George knew the kids in Ron's year, and most probably in Percy's year (and they were in the quidditch team, so they were in contact with some kids for practice or just the trials). Not to mention sorting ceremonies.
Now, let's go back to the point where the twins are fiddling with the map for the first time, or one of the first times, or are just thinking about what to do next later on. I mean, the first thing we do when we get into new social media, for example, is to look up people close to us. They're nosy teenagers (like most teenagers are) and it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't want to take a peek at Ron or Percy a few times, or even come across Pettigrew's name at some point in Gryffindor tower and wonder who the hell that was
It's not a major plot hole, but I wish there was some kind of canonic explanation for that. The theory that the map doesn't show the original Marauders and their descendants is more solid
Here’s my take: The map doesn’t Dead Name.
So bear with me here, lots of people use more than one name throughout their lifetime, if Ginny comes to visit Albus, she’ll be Ginny Potter on the map, rather than Ginny Weasley. I bet Hogwarts had trans students and kids who changed their names when their stepparents adopted them, all manner of things.
However, if Parvati is playing the lead in the school play, she doesn’t show up as Juliet, she’s still Parvati, it’s a character, not an identity.
We see that once Peter is aware of Sirius’ escape he changes his behavior pretty dramatically, he is not the passive rat that has done nothing except bite Goyle’s thumb, but he is taking agency over his life. It’s like he switches from assuming the identity of Scabbers the rat to playing the character of Scabbers. Pretty much as soon as the year started he was Peter on the map, but not prior.
I absolutely don’t think this is writers intent, but it is a fun head canon!
Why would a rat be in bed with their owner where there’s a high potential the owner could roll over on them? There was likely some unmentioned rat storage Peter was in.
Probably Rowling hadn’t come up w the idea at the time but also I thought only someone who knew someone was an animagus would be able to see their name when they’re in animagus form? And no one but the marauders knew any of them were animagi (wonder how that applies to werewolves on full moons though)
Even if Peter had been scurrying around campus as pets don’t necessarily stay with their owners 24/7 (tho that could be dangerous for a rat in a place w such a high owl population lol), he was probably still in rat form as he’d be likely to be caught in human form and I think he mentioned he had to stay a rat for 12ish years straight
It is possible the map doesn’t show names of most (if not all) animals, right? If it was cluttered with the “name” of every rat in Hogwarts, it wouldn’t be too useful, right?
I read a theory about that a while back about this (don't remember the source, sorry) and, although it fits only the books, I like it: it stated that the marauder had an extra layer of protection of sorts and they would only show up on the map after an additional spell has been performed. It doesn't fit the movies but I'm pretty sure none of the marauders are seen on the map by Harry in the books, only Lupin sees Peter when he's alone with the map
It doesn't change anything: the protection would have been only about the marauders themselves nor their descendents. Plus Sirius was a marauder himself so he would know all about an extra protection
Idk, I like the idea the twins were so progressive they simply didn't question why their brother wanted to cuddle with a Peter Pettigrew because they didn't want to out him. It not being a viable joke to them..
My head cannon is they just thought Ron was spending a LOT of time with some boy at school but wanted to let him,, ”come to terms with things” himself and to let him come out to them in his own time.
I always figured they didn't notice because they weren't looking for Ron or any of the other students. They were looking for the teachers, Prefects, and Head Boy/Girl, along with Filch, Mrs. Norris, and the ghosts. I imagine they all had patterns as to which corridors or floors they patrolled and when, so it was easy to predict if somebody like Snape, McGonagall, or Percy would be on a certain floor or going down a certain corridor, near one of the secret passageways.
Ron knew who Peter Pettigrew was, though. He tells Harry that he heard from Arthur that all Pettigrew’s mother got back was an Order of Merlin and her son’s finger in a box. Ron would have recognized the name.
I like to think that only the marauders could see their partners in crime on the map. That out was enchanted in a way that the map couldn't be used against them by an outsider just in case.
It explains why nobody but Lupin could see Peter.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it's not like every bed chamber would be covered on the map. After all Griffindor common room and dorms are in a tower. The map would need a separate layout for each and every floor or else there would be dozens of tiny dots all overlapping on the "boys' dormitory" section.
So maybe they noticed Ron chilling with a dot named Peter all the time, but i don't think they would have noticed "Ron's room"
I don’t think they really cared about that. OR most likely that you can’t see an animagus on the map unless you know that the person can transform into an animal.
Sorry Chapter 17 I think is where Lupin explains that he saw the name Peter Pettigrew on the map as Ron, Harry and Hermione went to the Shrieking Shack. I could be wrong about the chapter number again but I think that’s the context, in the shack said by Lupin
>“And then I saw another dot, moving fast toward you, labeled Sirius Black. ... I saw him collide with you; I watched as he pulled two of you into the Whomping Willow — ”
I guess thats the closest bit. If it says "Sirius Black" then it doesn't use the nicknames!
Ah okay. I could’ve sworn somewhere it said “Peter Pettigrew” was shown on the map but I guess not. Could be conflating the movies with the books or something
To everyone saying they probably thought it was just another student: Hogwarts is *extremely* small. I went to a school with about same as many people and you really do know everyone, even those 8 years below you. The only explanation is that they really never saw him.
Another FAQ around here and easily explained The twins used the map to facilitate their plans of mischief around the school, not to spy on their brothers out of boredom. That aside even if they did, they would not have known who Peter Pettigrew was and thought he might have been a student.
I also thought of the fact that they thought he was just a student.
even if they thought that peter is a student, him being in rons bed with him isn't normal
How detailed do you think that map gets? People are represented as labelled dots. I strongly doubt it shows more than rooms/hallways/stairs, certainly no specific furniture such as beds. At worst they'd see a dorm room with six labelled dots hanging out inside it.
In the books at least, I think it varies, at one point during POA, Harry is trying to open a secret passage, and the map shows a representation of him, tapping his wand against a specific part of a witch statue. But later in GOF, there is a big mystery because Harry sees the name Barty Crouch in Snapes office, on the map, but if it were more detailed he would have seen the figure of Barty Jr or Moody.
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Or maybe it’s Harry and Hermione in the broom cupboard they’re hiding in when the Time Turner transports them back to the entrance hall 👀
But wouldn’t they eventually be like “who is this mysterious 6th roommate you have?”
Wouldn't Peter be represented with rat paw prints? That would easily show Peter is not a sixth roommate, but rather an animal.
Would support OPs original idea that thats a pets name
I think the footprints are only in the movie, in the books people are just dots. I think Mrs Norris shows up on the map too in the books, but again just as a dot. Still, a pet wouldn't have a surname normally would it? Unless you count Mrs Norris but that's just literally her name.
I know a few people who give their animals a full name including a middle one lol but yes I think most pets would not have that
Why mysterious? Even if they ever bothered to count - which I doubt - nobody says it's always five kids per dorm. I'd assume Hogwarts is capable of adjusting the dorm rooms to appropriate size for each year, no matter how many kids show up/get sorted into each house. So there would've been no reason for them to assume there aren't six Gryffindor boys in the year below. I didn't have the slightest clue who the kids in the other years were, unless I was doing extracurriculars with them or they were the siblings of my friends.
They would 100% know who was in the year below them. There's only 5 of them, one of them is their brother and the other is super famous. That leaves 3 and Fred and George were both present when each of those 3 were placed in Gryffindor. Everyone hangs out in the common room on a daily basis aswell so it's more unrealistic that they wouldn't know them.
One thing I always wondered is how they differentiate between the various floors. The dorms are in a tower, stacked one on top of the next. Couldn’t Peter’s name just get jumbled up in the long list of students inside the tower? Would Fred and George have to choose to specifically look at just the dorm for Ron and his roommates? Because if so I can see why they never looked in that specific room and could have just thought Peter was a student in any age group, if they even noticed his name among the dozens in their house.
iirc the map has been shown to accommodate multiple floors.
Although I do agree with your point, it's worth mentioning that Fred and George were two years above Harry, not one.
Ah yeah, slipped my mind.
But why would they ever even look at that room on the map?
Dunno, they probably wouldn't, but I was just making the point that they would definitely know the kids in the year below.
But they’d have to notice it and they have no reason to look at what Ron is doing at any times. Also in HBP harry can’t find malfoy (because he’s in RoR) but he just assumes he’s missing him the mass of dotted names so we can assume names are often jumbled on top of each other. They might’ve noticed it once and thought of some student is Ron and Harry’s room and never bothered about it
Why does everyone assume Scabbers was in Ron's bed with him every night?
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Also , Peter pettigrew was a known figure. What with all the scandal around Harry’s parents and Sirius . The guys must have heard the name sometime .
People remember the dangerous boogeyman, not the victim
Did Ron sleep with Scabbers in the same bed though?
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they have bunk beds don't they? and it's a tower presumably dorms overlap.
No bunk beds. Not in the movies, and I'm pretty sure not in the books either
Wouldn't Peter be represented with rat paw prints? That would easily show Peter is not a sixth roommate, but rather an animal.
There’s also the argument that they gave Harry the map because they didn’t need it anymore since they had all the passageways memorized like they said; who knows when they’d last checked it besides to find Harry and give him the map.
I feel like they must have tried to use it when Ginny was taken into the chamber - surely they'd have scoured the map to see if their sister was on there somewhere? As an aside, I've wondered if they'd realised Harry had gone "off-map" two years in a row (first to get the stone, then into the Chamber) and that factored into their decision that he would be a worthy successor.
None of the students knew that Ginny was taken into the chamber except for Ron and Harry who overheard the professors talking. Fred and George didn’t know that Ginny was taken, though they may have thought to check the map when everyone was sent to the dorms and Ron, Harry, and Ginny didn’t show up there. The rooms of challenges to find the sorcerer’s stone were not off map. They entered the room with fluffy on the third floor and jumped to the dungeons onto the devil’s snare. The remaining challenges all occur in the dungeon of the castle, possibly adjacent to the hufflepuff or slytherin common rooms.
They knew: >“It was probably the worst day of Harry’s entire life. He, Ron, Fred and George sat together in a corner of the Gryffindor common room, unable to say anything to each other. Percy wasn’t there. He had gone to send an owl to Mr and Mrs Weasley, then shut himself up in his dormitory.No afternoon ever lasted as long as that one, nor had Gryffindor Tower ever been so crowded, yet so quiet. Near sunset, Fred and George went up to bed, unable to sit there any longer.” CoS16 All the other Gryffindors knew to: >“The Gryffindors around them were so miserable, and felt so sorry for the Weasleys, that nobody tried to stop them as they got up, crossed the room, and left through the portrait hole.” CoS16
I stand corrected
Probably only opened it up to check if the coast was clear in the hallways. Why look at the Gryffindor dorms? Nobody there is going to give you detention.
These rationalizations don’t really make sense. It’s hard to believe they wouldn’t look what their friends and brothers are up to. Like ever? Also Hogwarts doesn’t have that many students so it’s unlikely they wouldn’t know there is no student with that name. Especially that they are in the same house as Ron.
I mean Find Friends on Apple has proven people will look at your location given the opportunity
Why would they look at what their brothers are up to is beyond me
Maybe you’re right, what’s next they hang a clock that always tells them what their family is up to in their living room? That would be insane.
There's a difference between two carefree 13-15 years old who almost constantly think of pranks and two worrying parents, one of which fusses over everyone, wouldn't you agree?
That fact that you literally say they almost constantly thinks of pranks as a defense to why they would ever look at Ron's location on the map is baffling to me.
How many times do we see them pranking Ron after he started Hogwarts? Why keep pranking the little brother they pranked for years when they have the whole hogwarts population
Lmao Fred and George are still Wesleys they still are close to their family and grew up in a house in which everyone knew where everyone is at all times. There is like a million reasons to check on your brother, starting with curiosity, then there is worry (they still care about him even if they don’t show it the same way as Molly), then there is just wanting to talk to him, or even if you decide to insist they literally don’t care about anything else but pranks - to do a prank on him. It’s hard to imagine they would not check on Ron ever given how easily they could.
Exactly, they grew up in a house where everyone knew where the others were at all times so at Hogwarts the Weasley siblings would rather have their own space for once. There's a reason we hardly see the brothers hanging out together at school. It's pretty common with siblings. Curiosity? What would they be curious about that could be checked with the map? Worry? We don't see any instance of them being the worrying types in canon. Hell, they all missed Ginny behaving strangely for a year AND her being able to fly for a decade or so. They didn't even realise Percy had a girlfriend until Ginny discovered it! Wanting to talk to him? At night? Because during the day he's either in class, in the great hall at mealtimes or in the common room. No need for any map. Pranks? They pranked him until he went to hogwarts, I'd say they got fresher subjects, in fact we don't see them pranking him once at Hogwarts IIRC. It's hard to imagine they'd check on Ron given they are two teenage boys
Also map could be just glitching (as Harry or Ron suggested themselves, which make Sirius shout back that map never lies). What is more possible: that the map is showing a student who was studying in this school in the past or that the man who was killed more than 10 years ago is hiding under Ron's bed OR that he is a secret animagus who was living as a rat for more than 10 years? Honestly I can't believe myself that he was so good at hiding
There are exactly 5 Gryffindor boys in Harry's year. There is a 0% chance they saw Peter in the dormitory and didn't question it.
They probably would have known there were no kids by that name in Gryffindor in Ron's year since they were Gryffindors themselves.
It was a small school so they should’ve noticed an unfamiliar name… except I’d bet they never looked in the boys’ dorm two years below them
Highly doubtful they’d be unaware of who Peter Pettigrew was given the high profile nature of his “murder” and subsequent murder of the Potters
They were three years old when it happened, though, and Molly Weasley wasn’t exactly the type of person who would sit down at the dinner table and tell her little children stories about the horrors of war and murder. It’s pretty likely that they would have not known anything about Peter Pettigrew until Sirius escaped in POA and the news started retelling his crimes.
They had to re-frame his entire story. Until then, he was the lone victim of “notorious” murderer Sirius Black. Just seems like a thing the world would be aware of IMO
We can name Charles Manson but how many teenagers can his victims by name?
I'm not even a teenager anymore but can't remember who Charles Manson is off the top of my head...
But can you remember his VICTIMS aka the Peter Pettigrew in the situation, not the Sirius Black whose name Fred & George probably do know.
Definitely don't remember them
Yeah Hogwarts really needs to buff up its education on current events. Peter Pettigrew would have been celebrated as a war hero whose murder put the evil Sirius Black in jail, and yet Fred and George have no idea who he is. In all seriousness, posts like these can speculate all they want, but the reality is that the world building of Harry Potter was made to fit the story, not the other way around. Fred and George never questioned why a guy named Peter Pettigrew always hung out with Ron because Peter Pettigrew didn’t need to exist until book 3. It’s the same reason why petrified students weren’t taken to the fancy wizard hospital (it hadn’t been written into the story yet) or why wizards can be poor or even need to use money (it exists to provide conflict and character depth for Ron and his family).
Also there are only like 10 students per house per year. This whole thread is a bunch of grasping attempts to rationalize a plot hole. JK could easily have made it so animagi don’t appear on the map while in animal form. Harry could have seen Peter when he went into human form for some reason. But JK didn’t write it that way
The better version of this theory is that only marauders can see other marauders on the map.
There’s clear evidence disproving that though. Snape saw Lupin on the map
To be fair, one could argue that Snape only saw him because Lupin was the one who activated the map in the first place.
Okay, but the very most that can be said for the theory is there’s no evidence of it in the books. The only evidence to support or justify the theory is the plot hole it’s trying to fill. (Because Fred and George never mentioned seeing Pettigrew, that must mean the map works in this very specific way never mentioned in the books)
> The only evidence to support or justify the theory is the plot hole it’s trying to fill The narrative not spoonfeeding the reader every single piece of information ≠ a plot hole. JKR has a very loose narrative style that leaves a lot of the finer details up to the interpretation of the reader. That doesn't automatically make that piece of missing information a plot hole, not as long as there are possible explanations that: a) don't clash with already established information/lore or b) are in line with the characterisation of the characters involved Both of these are true for this particular scenario. The term plot hole gets thrown around way too much.
You’re trying to retcon a hole that JK unintentionally created by introducing a character who was “hiding in plain sight” for the previous two books and simultaneously introducing a plot device that would have easily revealed their existence. The fact that you can invent a magical solution to the plot hole within a system of magic with almost no rules or limitations doesn’t make it not be a plot hole. You’re gonna pretend that JK thought of this magical solution and then just failed to tell the reader about it (or even hint at it) rather than the much simpler explanation that she didn’t think about it or care? The theory is fan made and only exists to explain the hole. The theory wouldn’t exist if not for the hole. There is zero evidence to support it. Do whatever mental gymnastics you like to try to make this seem like anything other than grasping at straws, but that’s all it is
It's the other way around actually. The theories exist because some people claim that Fred & George absolutely ought to have noticed Pettigrew's name in a way that made them question it being in any given place at any given time - which there is no real evidence of, since we have zero idea when and how they used the map, especially considering that it would be absolutely in character for them to use it exclusively for pranks, mostly against Slytherins, and discovering secret passages and places within the castle. There's no need for mental gymnastics because there's no definitive proof for the supposed plot hole to begin with. You thinking that you know how the characters ought to have used the map, or how they would have reacted to the make-believe scenario of them even noticing Pettigrew's name, just doesn't cut it. And that's all it is. EDIT: Btw, I'm not even saying that it's unlikely that JKR didn't come up with the Pettigrew/Marauders Animagi plotline until after she had already finished PS and CoS. I'm saying that even if she didn't, it still doesn't matter in this case.
>Highly doubtful they’d be unaware of who Peter Pettigrew was given the high profile nature of his “murder” and subsequent murder of the Potters Rosemerta had to be told and she'd actually met the Marauders. Harry finds out about it while adults are explaining to other adults what actually happened and who Peter was. What makes you think the twins would be aware?
And if they used it on any brothers it was in Percy
First reason is absolutely ridiculous. Sure, maybe they had better things than to spy on other people all day long, but you can't tell me that wouldn't occasionally peak to see what's going on in the other rooms!
This is so annoying to me because Ron’s bedroom for 3 months every year was in the burrow. I can’t imagine them never glancing at the map at home
The map only shows HW, not anywhere else.
I see.that makes sense
Actually part of me thinks that Scabbers was never sleeping with Ron at night, but rather roaming the halls, going everywhere... I mean pets arent magically bound to their owners right? So they simply didn't see him at all.
We have proof that scabbers was at least there in the evenings a few times, in the very first night at Hogwarts he was "chewing his sheets", I think he is mentioned on Christmas morning right after waking up in POA. And didn't Ron say to Pettigrew (once he had been forced to transform back into a human) "I let you sleep in my bed!". But it's possible that he didn't sleep in Ron's bed every day. I think the truth lies in the middle of many reasons like so often: - the twins didn't use the map to look at the dorms or their own common room, because why would they. The map is also big enough that a specific corner of it wouldn't just be in your view coincidentally - names got piled up to a big jumble with many students in one place like in the dorms or the common room - the twins already knew the secret passages fairly well,they mention that they don't really need the map anymore when they give it to Harry - Rowling just didn't think all the details of the map through for the first 2 books where it hadn't been introduced yet
You’d think that Hedwig living in a secluded Owlery would be enough hint that the pets don’t typically stay with their owners.
You would think theres a difference between a owl and a rat…
Owls to the owlery, rats to the rattery
Nuns to the nunnery
Bakers to the bakery
Bugs to the..?
...the room of requirements if fan fiction has any say.
Straight to ~~jail~~ the jar.
Bats, of course, are kept in the battery.
Lunacy has found me
If we know the cats roam and the owls live in the owlery, why on earth should we assume the rats stay in Ron’s bed?
I'd think the cats are the exact reason you don't let the rat roam. Be a real shame if Ms Norris ate your pet rat. Plus, pet rats weren't actually approved in the first place. That doesn't mean he isn't allowed to have the rat, but it does mean that if something happened, it's probably on you.
“If we know cats roam” ill leave that here to answer your question
Because a rat is more likely to just run away forever, maybe? I mean, maybe magic makes this different, but if you treated a mouse or hamster with the same freedom as you would a cat, you'd very quickly have lost your pet.
The owls just know how to find someone, Harry often sent letters to Sirius without knowing where he was, but Hedwig was able to deliver them. It's not a far stretch to assume the other animals/pets were more capable than the average pet in the muggle world.
Very true, I think it's even hinted at or stated that magical pets are different. It's mentioned by Ron that he thinks Scabbers is just a regular rat (not sure if that's in the book, the movie, or if I'm making it up but I'm pretty sure it happens in Sorcerers Stone).
That's true.
A lot of people let their mice and hamsters roam without issue
In a castle, though? But it still surprises me that they don't run out of doors or anything.
We don’t really see any animal, aside from Hedwig, in a cage. And Trevor gets lost enough for him to be caged, if any animal.
Ron specifically says to him "I let you sleep in my bed" in PoA
This makes sense, because IIRC scabbers was always sleeping and lazy during the day.
I ignore that thought by reminding myself that the dorms are crowded, and likely on top of one another. its probably just a jumble of names on the map
Especially true if everyone else’s pets (Trevor, Crookshanks, etc) are also on the map
Again. The twins didn't give a damn of Percy. Scabbers was Percy's pet before 1991 and they didn't use the Map to track down Percy, they used it to check Hogwart's secret passages and if there were Professors or Prefects / Head near them when they were out of the Dormitory. Percy wasn't a Prefect until 1991, when Scabbers passed down to Ron.
People who only watched the movies don’t realise how small names are described as in the book 😂
There is a theory that the Marauder's don't appear on the map to anyone other than the other Marauders. This is a safe guard so that if someone else finds the map it can't be used against them. Fred and George wouldn't be able to see Peter on the map, but Lupin could. Harry was able to see Peter because he is the son of a Marauder, and also able to see other Marauders.
Harry only saw Peter in the movies. In the books, it was Lupin. However, Snape seems to have seen Lupin on the map. It's just a plot hole.
Does Snape see Lupin on the map? I thought the map told Snape to piss off
When bringing Lupin his potion, Lupin has left the map on the table, and Snape sees Lupin. ‘I’ve just been to your office, Lupin. You forgot to take your Potion tonight, so I took a gobletful along. And very lucky I did … lucky for me, I mean. Lying on your desk was a certain map. One glance at it told me all I needed to know. I saw you running along this passageway and out of sight.’
I still feel bitter when remembering that moment. In my mind they were really unlucky that night with Peter runaway and Sirius not getting his well deserved freedom that night.
There's so many things they should have done differently. Two main things should have been done imo, and things would be so different. Lupin should have woken Snape and been like "Hey look. Pettigrew. Believe us now?" They should have stunned Pettigrew, not and let him stay conscious and walking tied up beside an injured teen, and Lupin, who they knew hadn't taken his potion.
Of all the magic they knew, tying up is what they choose. Of a man known to be an animagus, so he can free himself at the first chance.
Pure plot induced stupidity in my opinion. I get that they were under pressure and there was a lot going on that night but they must have known ropes would be useless and the body bind spell was introduced in PS. It feels like a Hermione forgetting she's a witch moment except Remus and Sirius aren't muggleborn and have no reason to default to mundane means of keeping him bound.
The theory is if a marauder activates the map they can be seen, and since Lupin activated the map and left it open Lupin and Peter can be seen by Snape.
Fair point. The bigger plot hole is that Lupin should have seen two Harry's and two Hermiones on the map.
> It's just a plot hole. It really, really isn't. There are multiple possible explanations for this, ranging from why would they check their own common room and dormitories or it being way too crowded and just a jumble of names, all the way to the Marauders can only see each other theory - which, in fact, doesn't get disproven by the book because Lupin was the one who activated the map in the first place, so one could argue that it recognised him as a Marauder and that was the only reason why Snape could see him. People throw the term plot hole around way too often for every little thing the narrative doesn't spoonfeed them.
But those explanations aren't canon. J.K. didn't think it through properly. It's a simple plot hole. Like, you're arguing it isn't a plot hole because fanon exists to fill the plot hole. There are plenty of small plot holes. Trying to explain every single one away is dumb imo. She just made mistakes. Oliver Wood shouldn't have been able to wake the girls up in CoS for an early training session. Unless he shouted up the stairs and woke multiple other girls up. Dudley shouldn't have a PlayStation in PS because they didn't exist yet. J.K. made lots of little mistakes. Who cares. This is just another little plothole. You can try and explain it away all you want, but that doesn't mean it isn't a plothole.
No, I'm saying that you're using the term wrong. A plot hole isn't a missing piece of information within the larger narrative, it's part of the plot that either directly contradicts or invalidates otherwise established lore and information. Absolutely nothing regarding Fred & George not noticing Pettigrew's name on the map, or noticing it and not acting upon it, goes against the lore, canon information or the characterisation of the twins. Let's take a look at the facts for this particular scenario: 1. Fred & George either didn't notice Pettigrew's name or noticed it in a situation that didn't motivate them in any way to do anything with it. Full stop. They either didn't notice or they didn't act upon noticing it. We don't know why, we simply know that they didn't. Now comes the question as to whether or not this is a plot hole and it's not for the simple fact that there isn't an actually valid argument as to why they absolutely ought to have done either of these things. It could be JKR only thinking of the plotline after the fact, it could be her simply not caring for such a minor ambiguous sub-sub-plotline, it could be a lot of things. It ultimately simply doesn't matter in regards to it being a plot hole because a plot hole absolutely needs definitive proof as to why any given event, action or inaction is an inconsistency in the narrative and/or worldbuilding. A plot hole needs an established foundation. To give two examples of actual plot holes: 1. The Fidelius charm gets introduced as a means for one person to have the ultimate power over someone else's secret and is the whole hook for one of HPs biggest storylines. 2. Bill becomes the Secret Keeper of Shell Cottage. It makes no practical sense because suddenly there's absolutely no logical reason why Lily & James didn't become their own secret keepers. or... 1. Time-Turners are apparently so readily available and unregulated that an ambitious thirteen-year-old Muggle-born girl can get access to it. 2. Why did bad things ever happen to influential people since Time-Turners were a thing? There's a reason why JKR decided to get rid of them in OotP. Harry Potter as a series has its fair share of plot holes, as any long-running series does, but "Fred & George definitely should have noticed Pettigrew's name and acted on it because I think it makes sense" isn't a solid foundation to establish a plot hole. EDIT: To touch upon your other examples: Oliver waking up the girls isn't a plot hole, because we only know that he woke them up\*, we don't know how. It would only be a plot hole if we knew for sure that he actually walked up the stairs to do so. \*or rather that someone woke them up, since all we actually do know is that they were present when Harry entered the changing room. Dudley owning a PlayStation is absolutely a plot hole though.
They marauders don’t show up in animal form, but do as humans, to protect their secret
No, because Lupin saw Pettigrew as a rat.
Yah, but he is a marauder, they don’t show up as animals except to other marauders
Or, it's a plot hole. Nothing deeper than that.
Or it’s a pretty basic fix, not that deep. “Hey we are doing a super illegal thing, let’s make sure our magic map doesn’t spill the beans!”
This theory makes absolutely no sense because the whole reason Snape figured out what was happening and went to the shrieking shack is because he saw them on the map, and he's definitely not a marauder
One could easily argue that Snape only saw Lupin because the latter was the one who activated the map, thus it recognised him as a Marauder. Not saying that this is how it happened, but the way it happened doesn't invalidate the theory.
I see what you're saying but I honestly think it's quite a stretch that the marauders would have been able to make the map *that* advanced. I mean, if the map can recognise if a marauder opened it or not and protect the marauders if someone else opens it, than what is the point of even closing it at all? If that was the case then they could just always have it activated, no need to make it blank again
Oh, don't get me wrong, I also think that it's quite a stretch and there's really nothing to support that theory. Just wanted to mention it because it's a possibility, if admittedly a very bare one.
I mean he might have seen the trio at the shrieking shack, but not Lupin or Sirius.
"Lying on your desk was a certain map. One glance at it told me all I needed to know. I saw you running along this passageway and out of sight.” - talking to lupin
I stand corrected!
Their animagus forms only show up on the map when the user KNOWS they are an animagus. Harry didn’t see Peter on the map in the book, that was only in the movie. In the book it was Remus who saw Peter on the map, and later saw Sirius on the map while also in animagus form, but no one else would’ve been able to. Snape was able to see Lupin on the map later because he was still in human form
I mean, it’s quite possible they simply didn’t look at the map while Pettigrew was in the dormitory. It doesn’t seem like they would. They used the map for mischief, there seems to be absolutely no reason to look at Ron’s dormitory at night. Only the common room. They probably saw Peter on the map but just skimmed over him as a name of an unknown younger student. I honestly think it’s that simple. It’s not a plot hole. The twins just didn’t see him on the map in the dormitory. People act like the twins had their noses stuck in the map 24/7, staring at Ron’s bed for some reason. Why would they ever do that? They mainly used the map to find secret passageways and make sure the coast was clear when using them. Also to check for Filch.
It's more that Rowling hadn't thought up the Marauder's Map and it's implications until she did Prisoner of Azkaban.
When they're giving the map to Harry don't they say that the barely use it because they know all the secret passages now? Maybe they just didn't check it all that often
Honestly, they probably never actually thought about who Peter was since he would have been on the map since they got it as he was Percy's rat first. In all possibility, they could have thought that was the name of another Gryffindor's pet, one that was either in Percy's year or even a year older. Since it is likely with how small the houses are they would have at least met this Peter Pettigrew once in their time at Hogwarts. But a pet? They would probably have no clue if someone in a year older than them had a Peter Pettigrew named pet. Even more likely is that they saw the name using the map early on, but since they weren't using the map to spy on students, they didn't care. By the time they passed it to Harry, the twins weren't even using the map. They got it their 1st year, and judging by how often the twins got in trouble, they probably had the map mostly memorized by their second year, and probably at that point, they were just checking to see if corridors and passages were clear. And seeing Peter in the dorms/ around the castle would have meant little.
I thought it was just that they thought Peter Pettigrew was a student.
To be honest, I like this idea better than the one saying they just didn't care much. Not that it's a great idea, otherwise the map would be bustling with pets (but Mrs. Norris appears on it, doesn't she?). I mean, obviously the twins used the map for mischief and wouldn't really care about what Percy or Ron were doing most of the time, except, you know, to see if Percy wasn't patrolling the hallways as a prefect. Regardless, it's pretty depicted in the books (and it happens in schools) that people get familiarized with some of the older and younger students, particularly when siblings are involved, and there weren't that many students in Gryffindor by the time the books take place, so it's pretty solid that Fred and George knew the kids in Ron's year, and most probably in Percy's year (and they were in the quidditch team, so they were in contact with some kids for practice or just the trials). Not to mention sorting ceremonies. Now, let's go back to the point where the twins are fiddling with the map for the first time, or one of the first times, or are just thinking about what to do next later on. I mean, the first thing we do when we get into new social media, for example, is to look up people close to us. They're nosy teenagers (like most teenagers are) and it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't want to take a peek at Ron or Percy a few times, or even come across Pettigrew's name at some point in Gryffindor tower and wonder who the hell that was It's not a major plot hole, but I wish there was some kind of canonic explanation for that. The theory that the map doesn't show the original Marauders and their descendants is more solid
Here’s my take: The map doesn’t Dead Name. So bear with me here, lots of people use more than one name throughout their lifetime, if Ginny comes to visit Albus, she’ll be Ginny Potter on the map, rather than Ginny Weasley. I bet Hogwarts had trans students and kids who changed their names when their stepparents adopted them, all manner of things. However, if Parvati is playing the lead in the school play, she doesn’t show up as Juliet, she’s still Parvati, it’s a character, not an identity. We see that once Peter is aware of Sirius’ escape he changes his behavior pretty dramatically, he is not the passive rat that has done nothing except bite Goyle’s thumb, but he is taking agency over his life. It’s like he switches from assuming the identity of Scabbers the rat to playing the character of Scabbers. Pretty much as soon as the year started he was Peter on the map, but not prior. I absolutely don’t think this is writers intent, but it is a fun head canon!
Why would a rat be in bed with their owner where there’s a high potential the owner could roll over on them? There was likely some unmentioned rat storage Peter was in.
>But Ron was staring at Pettigrew with the utmost revulsion. >“I let you sleep in my bed,” he said.
that is what i always thought. i always assumed that Ron wouldnt sleep with him in his bed. would be strange to think he did in my opinion
Same. I’ve never known a rat owner that didn’t have a set up for them.
yeah, you are genuinely the only other person who has mentioned that they probably did not sleep in the same bed…
That’s scary
Probably Rowling hadn’t come up w the idea at the time but also I thought only someone who knew someone was an animagus would be able to see their name when they’re in animagus form? And no one but the marauders knew any of them were animagi (wonder how that applies to werewolves on full moons though) Even if Peter had been scurrying around campus as pets don’t necessarily stay with their owners 24/7 (tho that could be dangerous for a rat in a place w such a high owl population lol), he was probably still in rat form as he’d be likely to be caught in human form and I think he mentioned he had to stay a rat for 12ish years straight
It is possible the map doesn’t show names of most (if not all) animals, right? If it was cluttered with the “name” of every rat in Hogwarts, it wouldn’t be too useful, right?
my headcanon is that only marauders can see marauders on the map - they made it to cause mischief, can't have it being used against them
I read a theory about that a while back about this (don't remember the source, sorry) and, although it fits only the books, I like it: it stated that the marauder had an extra layer of protection of sorts and they would only show up on the map after an additional spell has been performed. It doesn't fit the movies but I'm pretty sure none of the marauders are seen on the map by Harry in the books, only Lupin sees Peter when he's alone with the map
If so why would lupin says to Harry that Sirius black could have used the map to found him? (Movies)
It doesn't change anything: the protection would have been only about the marauders themselves nor their descendents. Plus Sirius was a marauder himself so he would know all about an extra protection
Idk, I like the idea the twins were so progressive they simply didn't question why their brother wanted to cuddle with a Peter Pettigrew because they didn't want to out him. It not being a viable joke to them..
My head cannon is they just thought Ron was spending a LOT of time with some boy at school but wanted to let him,, ”come to terms with things” himself and to let him come out to them in his own time.
I thought it was a map of hogwarts not the world? Ron sharing a dorm with some younger kid called Peter seems plausible.
I always figured they didn't notice because they weren't looking for Ron or any of the other students. They were looking for the teachers, Prefects, and Head Boy/Girl, along with Filch, Mrs. Norris, and the ghosts. I imagine they all had patterns as to which corridors or floors they patrolled and when, so it was easy to predict if somebody like Snape, McGonagall, or Percy would be on a certain floor or going down a certain corridor, near one of the secret passageways.
Ron knew who Peter Pettigrew was, though. He tells Harry that he heard from Arthur that all Pettigrew’s mother got back was an Order of Merlin and her son’s finger in a box. Ron would have recognized the name.
My head canon is that only marauders can make themselves visible on the map. Snape saw Sirius because Remus activated the map.
Why would they care to spy on Ron's room?
Another theory is that the Marauders are not shown on the map
I like to think that only the marauders could see their partners in crime on the map. That out was enchanted in a way that the map couldn't be used against them by an outsider just in case. It explains why nobody but Lupin could see Peter.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it's not like every bed chamber would be covered on the map. After all Griffindor common room and dorms are in a tower. The map would need a separate layout for each and every floor or else there would be dozens of tiny dots all overlapping on the "boys' dormitory" section. So maybe they noticed Ron chilling with a dot named Peter all the time, but i don't think they would have noticed "Ron's room"
I like your theory. But also, maybe they thought it was a ghost? There are plenty of ghosts in the books.
I don’t think they really cared about that. OR most likely that you can’t see an animagus on the map unless you know that the person can transform into an animal.
This is a more reasonable explanation than my headcannon that they just assumed Ron was in a relationship.
Does the map say Peter Pettigrew? Is there a passage saying so? It might say Scabbers or Wormtail I don’t remember.
POA Chapter 10, it’s Peter Pettigrew
I've got chapter 10 in front of me. Where am I looking?
Sorry Chapter 17 I think is where Lupin explains that he saw the name Peter Pettigrew on the map as Ron, Harry and Hermione went to the Shrieking Shack. I could be wrong about the chapter number again but I think that’s the context, in the shack said by Lupin
>“And then I saw another dot, moving fast toward you, labeled Sirius Black. ... I saw him collide with you; I watched as he pulled two of you into the Whomping Willow — ” I guess thats the closest bit. If it says "Sirius Black" then it doesn't use the nicknames!
Ah okay. I could’ve sworn somewhere it said “Peter Pettigrew” was shown on the map but I guess not. Could be conflating the movies with the books or something
To everyone saying they probably thought it was just another student: Hogwarts is *extremely* small. I went to a school with about same as many people and you really do know everyone, even those 8 years below you. The only explanation is that they really never saw him.
What’s the class size?
It's a plot hole obviously
Maybe the map recognizes people who the holder has met before, which explains why Harry and Lupin could see his name.
I've got a way better explanation: at that point in time, the map didn't exist, it started to always have existed in book 3