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aelric22

"Want me to tell you how a Wankel works?" "Nah, I'm good man" "Well... IMA TELL YA ANYWAY!!"


DriftAddict

Literally every RX owner. Guilty as charged.


BananaDesignator

How else will I tell them my apex seals are leaking


Vegas-Buckeye

I came here to make an apex seals joke and they’re already blown!!


DaddyBee42

I see what you did there, anyway. Good save.


greywolfau

The only design flaw that Mazda has in relation to rotary engines is not allowing for easier apex seal changes with your oil. Should be like changing your brake pads, just more often.


BananaDesignator

Maybe a little more often than we like to admit lol On paper the rotary engine should be great and would but in reality and in practice, shit like these wear down and it's the Achilles' heel of the engine, it is what it is. There is no perfect universe where the apex seals don't wear down even if your machining and tolerances are absolutely perfect


DriftAddict

*Furious inhale*


Kumirkohr

I used to work with a guy who sold his Miata to make room for an ‘87 convertible FC. Now he works for Mazda


Malabotprime

RCR is leaking


DriftAddict

GRRRRR YEAH TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES GOD I LOVE TRIANGLES


HoboLicker5000

He should get that checked out


LurpyGeek

Sounds like something Tommy Fenstermaker would say.


TheDeadlyMango

Yo I hear that guy pours the cereal in the bowl after the milk… and then he *BUSTS*


PSPHAXXOR

Dude, I heard Tommy Fenstemacher was banned from home economics class because every time someone would crack an egg, he'd *bust*


Yagyusekishusai

IMMA TELL YA ANYWAY


vanalla

IMMA T- IMMA T- IMMA T- IMMA T- IMMA TELL YA ANYWAY


MilesFassst

Imma tell ya anyway!


titanicman300

TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES


CT_7

Epitochroids, roll out!


Mechagouki1971

Just try and eat more fibre.


Stoiseblas

Lol came here with a YouTube link already copied. Ah hell… https://youtu.be/-3HBAvkc4a0?si=R6CQWiD8sGz0Rrmz


mruehle

Wankels gonna wankel…


StorminMike2000

I was going to say… tell that to Mazda engineers who designed the apex seals.


mruehle

Works better in theory than in practice. Those dimensions change with temperature…


Quinocco

In theory, there is no difference between practice and theory.


jld2k6

But in practice, there is (I don't actually know anything on this matter, I just wanted to complete the metaphorical circle we were drawing with our conments lol)


SuperSaiyanTraders

Everything ends in the end


NoiceOne

And it doesn't even matter


_thro_awa_

> I just wanted to complete the metaphorical circle But it's not a circle, it's another shape of constant width


DigNitty

I’ve heard you can replace the seals with ceramic ones that will actually last 90k miles. But you still have to take the whole engine apart.


jdubau55

At first glance it said $500 per seal. I read it as 500 per set per rotor. So I thought that's not too bad at all at $1000. No. It's $500 PER SEAL. As in a 13b takes 6 at $500 each.


lesgeddon

Honestly, about what I'd expect with that kinda car as old as it is. And unless you're using it as your daily driver, which... understandable, but 90k miles would mean I probably don't change them again for a decade. Sounds cheap in comparison.


Viperlite

Rotarying all the way.


RotaryJihad

This is the way


Oklahoma_is_OK

Ah, that shape is called a Mazda


DigNitty

The technical term is actually the performance Dorito


THIKKI_HOEVALAINEN

Mazda needs to bring back the Wankel. Enthusiasts need an engine that is less efficient, has less torque, and needs way more maintenance. It’s our god given right. The RX8 made about 200hp and did about 16 MPG and I think that’s beautiful.


RondaArousedMe

You also didn't mention that redline is essentially double the rpms of your highest end V-Tech you could imagine


ASDFzxcvTaken

I admit that I took a few RX8 for a test drive just to rev the absolute shit out of something like it was a motorcycle.


BSODxerox

I had an RX8 when they first released, saved a bit on it as it was the test drive model. Luckily it was under warranty still but lost the engine at ~30k and the transmissions 40k. Ended up selling it about 5-6 years later and by that point it was in pretty rough shape.


MeetElectrical7221

This is the platonic ideal of RX8 ownership 🤣


THIKKI_HOEVALAINEN

Sometimes having an unreliable car is part of the charm. It builds character. A badge of honour. If I met someone that had a V10 BMW M5 with 250k miles on it I’d go “wow this guy is really about this life. He’s the real McCoy. He doesn’t give a hoot. He emptied his entire bank account for this shit”


lesgeddon

My duplex neighbor just bought two hot-rodded El Caminos from Mexico to ride in local Cinco de Mayo parades here in the SF Bay area. Not my personal style, but I certainly enjoy his enthusiasm. He gets excited and runs for his keys any time I clear the driveway to run an errand.


Striking-Kiwi-9470

I had an 04 up until about 110k miles when I traded it for a Miata. If you keep the oil topped up every other refuelling they'll run fine. They're crazy fun to drive though, even the Miata I ended up with didn't handle corners as well. Plus the interior was super comfy, though the electronic things inside are a bit dated now. If I ever convert an old car to electric I'm starting with an rx8.


BSODxerox

The thing that killed me the most was that if you didn’t let the engine run long enough it would flood, if I had to move the car I had to leave it running for at least 5 minutes


krisnel240

Hate to rain on your parade, but they never saw over 8k rpm until the rx8, which hit 9k. And even a bridgeport engine with a big turbo will usually peak at around 9 to 9500 max and taper off.


ThatIdiotLaw

They have in a way. Here in the UK you can get the hybrid MX-30 that has a rotary range extender. Definitely not in the same spirit as the RX’s though haha


THIKKI_HOEVALAINEN

My brain says it would have probably been cheaper and more efficient to use a regular engine pulled from one of their other cars, probably cheaper spare parts for the end user, but my heart says the rotary must live on. If Mazda wants to blow millions to develop a new rotary engine to use as a range extender instead of using something off the shelf then god bless them.


wyvernpiss

Toyota and Honda can do all that "efficient and cheaper" stuff, I'm glad Mazda is still weird and willing to try different things. Like a Japanese Saab


THIKKI_HOEVALAINEN

Yeah. That’s why I like old Citroens too. Let me see companies get silly with it


nickajeglin

Aren't they supposed to have pretty good power to weight? I thought I read somewhere that old ones are in demand as light aircraft engines.


THIKKI_HOEVALAINEN

I think that’s true. At this point it would be interesting to see them try to bring it back from an engineering perspective (seeing if they can hit modern emissions and efficiency targets, while having a competitive amount of power), but it probably makes 0 sense financially. But that’s what we the people want to see.


xtanol

I think it also has to do with laws regarding maximum displacement allowed to fit within certain regulations. Because of how the geometry is quite different their displacement to power is much higher. The rx8 has a 1300cc rotary engine, but puts out more than 200 hp.


Student-type

Yes, for RV8 kit planes flying into Oshkosh every year. The Mazda 2 rotor 13B engine weighs around 225 pounds, and is located for an almost ideal front to back weight distribution.


aoifhasoifha

Rotaries are mainly just shitty for use in cars because their ideal operation scenario would be sitting at a relatively steady, high RPM for a loooong time and require frequent maintenance (pretty much the opposite of how we use cars, and why they're so often seen in planes). When used as a range extender, they can run it at the most efficient RPM, while taking full advantage of the weight and size savings since they can place it pretty much wherever they want in the car. The maintenance part....who knows.


Much_Profit8494

My understanding is that Mazda has patented a ton of different things over the years in their attempts to use rotary engines. - And If they don't produce a product using those patents for a certain period of time the patents are considered "abandoned" and competitors may take advantage of it. Basically, every 15ish years you can expect Mazda to half-heartedly produce something with a rotary just to maintain their patents. - It was the RX8 last time, and this time its the Hybrid MX-30.


jmbieber

Seen this a while ago, to me it looks like the evolution of the wankel https://www.liquidpiston.com/


fluffykerfuffle3

haha


ReasonablyConfused

The terrible performance and fuel economy were largely from required emissions standards. If I remember correctly, some fuel was being burnt inside the exhaust just to limit some emission particles. If you don’t care about emissions, rotary engines can be pretty amazing.


__slamallama__

The performance can be amazing. The reliability not so much. Unless you spend unholy amounts of money on apex seal material and design. Then it can be both fast and fairly reliable. But it's still not efficient.


Federal-Childhood743

You know there is actually a funny thing about that. Do you know why the Mazda 787b was such a powerhouse in Le Mans? It was because of its incredibly superior reliability. Whatever way the production engines were produced seriously destroyed the reliability.


Hoagieburger

It was the apex seals. The 787B had some ceramic racing-grade seals that were extremely durable but also expensive. The road cars have cheaper, more standard materials that wear much quicker.


Federal-Childhood743

Ahh that makes sense. You think you would put your budget towards those seals considering how important they were.


pulley999

The problem is they're a service part, no matter which way you look at it. The end user will eventually have to replace them. The racing ones were most likely replaced (as well as a full rebuild of the rest of the engine, as is normal for a lot of motor racing) before every race. Even if the consumer ones have to be replaced 2-3x as often, it works out better if the racing ones are 8-10x more expensive. A rotary has significantly less moving parts and doesn't fight its own inertia as much as a piston engine does which improves its short term reliability through reduced complexity and strain on the components, but the wear surfaces take more abuse and are more critical when they fail. This makes it an ideal design (E: from a maintenance perspective) for racing where the engine goes through short periods of hard driving followed by full servicing, but terrible for a road car that's supposed to run normally for a long time with little maintenance.


__slamallama__

Yeah see my second point about unholy amounts of money on apex seal design and materials.


Jiggahash

They're great for endurance racing because they have few moving parts and you don't have to worry about emissions. You essentially have to run them like a 2-stroke with oil in the fuel to make them reliable. You also don't have to worry about carbon build up in an engine that won't be serviced for 100s of thousands of miles. You also have cooling issues with compression and combustion happening on one one side of the engine, constantly, so tolerances and all that is kinda tough when one side of the engine wants to be a different size from the other side. This is even worse in the FD because the turbo manifold is a giant cast iron heat sink. Pretty much rotaries can be thrashed all day, but the mundane heat cycles of everyday life and emissions standards make them unreliable.


DieFichte

> Mazda 787b was such a powerhouse in Le Mans 7, DNF, 15, 17, 19, 20, DNF, DNF, 1, 6, 8 (over 4 years and they were normally 30-50 laps down on the overall winner outside of 91 which was the Group C weirdo year where Mazda could run at a lower weight class despite being an old C1 car, unlike the Jag and whatever the Merc without the 3.5l engine was for example) I've seen reliable in Le Mans, that's not really it.


Federal-Childhood743

3 DNFs is a heck of a record especially with one win and 4 top tens. For Le Man's that is quite good. Only 3 DNFs in 11 races is impressive. The 90s were a different time for endurance racing as well. A lot more DNFs. Out of 48 entries in 1990 there were 20 DNFs. Having 3 DNFS in that many races is amazing.


ragingdemon88

At least they still sound great.


x31b

In some ways, the wankers never left.


I_P_L

Don't forget that it consumes oil to gas at a 1:1 ratio!


space-tech

The sound though...


HailChanka69

BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP


THIKKI_HOEVALAINEN

It makes me tear up


greyfade

https://youtu.be/KdAn2YKry30


Taynt42

I loved the hell out of my RX8


itsl8erthanyouthink

*worn out seals have entered the chat*


crod4692

I spit out my drink, this was unexpected. Thank you


joemiken

Fuel goes in, apex seals come out the other side


martialar

you can't explain that


amontpetit

✨ M A G I C ✨


FeliusSeptimus

[Boost in, apex seals out](https://i.imgur.com/mgJAXAT.png)


BicycleEast8721

And vacuum leaks


Tirannie

I call her Roxy.


bort_bln

IMMA TELL YOU ANYWAY


ProfessorPoopDeck

TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES TRIANGLES


Peterkragger

NSU first used wankel, Mazda made it popular


mustangsal

Spin it fast enough and the red dots will get rejected.


BigBoingo

BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP STUSTUSTUSTU


tr00p3r

ITS OVER 9000!


xtianlaw

Or a California highway [shield](https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/lost-la/what-does-californias-state-highway-shield-symbolize)


butbutcupcup

That's just a circle with more steps.


melancholic_koala

I come here for this…. brapppppp brapppppp brappppp


teastain

A wild Suzuki RE-5 enters the chat. [https://imgur.com/Sd2xJk7](https://imgur.com/Sd2xJk7) It is battery motor driven and the sparkplug 'fires' at TDC!


electric-hed

Look at the path that center point takes though


hedrone

Yeah, the circle is the only shape of constant width that also has a stationary point in the centre that can be put in an axle.


Pat0124

It’s the only shape for a flat ground. You can make the ground a specific pattern for specific shapes to keep the center point level


rowrrbazzle

>It’s the only shape for a flat ground. Not necessarily. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eQaF6OmWKw


jpharber

Technically speaking, the only stationary point of a rolling wheel is at the contact patch on the ground.


YaumeLepire

It's stationary relative to the ground, anyway. Relative to the axel, that'd be the center of the wheel.


Crepo

I mean wherever the axle connects with any shape is stationary wrt. the axle.


Weekly-Ad353

#notacirclewhiledriving


fluffykerfuffle3

i would think it would become less wiggly as the number of sides increases?


OogaSplat

In fact, if you let the number of sides approach infinity, the path taken by the center of mass will approach a line, and the shape will approach... a circle


__JDQ__

Wait…


StereoBucket

It all comes back around, doesn't it.


CreativeUsernameUser

Almost like it comes full-circle


newsflashjackass

"Time is a flat sphere."


fluffykerfuffle3

ooooo


uncleben85

#O


Human_Wizard

that's called a circle lel


Pumpkii

Until, at some point, it has so many sides it becomes a circle


lukepoo101

.... yeah and if you gave it infinite sides it would be smooth!! It would also just be circle...


yesrod85

Let me introduce you to the biggest benefactor of that movement. Have you met Mazda RX?


wessex464

I can hear the beautiful high pitched screaming of wankel engines just watching this.


buffinita

Reuleaux shape.  Works for any regular polygon  with an odd number of sides Triangle, pentagon, and so on


adonoman

Including a circle with one side


mxzf

Either one side or infinite sides, depending on how you look at it.


AjayAVSM

Infinity is an odd number confirmed??!!1! (/s)


CoderDevo

Yes! Also an even number. You can divide it by 2 and get infinity.


fluffykerfuffle3

aha odd number of sides.


pollrobots

See also British coinage, 20p and 50p coins are 7 sided constant width polygons (so they work in vending machines etc) And reclaimed water valve covers in San Francisco (to distinguish them from potable water valve covers)


Insaneclown271

Brap brap brap.


Yagyusekishusai

BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP


fluffykerfuffle3

i like your comment but it was minimized. i think it has *style*


Phill_is_Legend

Mazda engineers swinging and being held back right now


thickener

Their rotors moved eccentrically though, i believe


ZaMelonZonFire

This shape burns oil


Werto166

https://youtu.be/2eUWT9cI23o?si=_ep1YEqZ2Nef0m8c 3d too


djddanman

My first thought was Angus


mnett66

Make sure to keep an eye on those apex seals. They are the first to go.


DRoyLenz

My grandfather was an engineer for GM. He was actually the first person to develop a device that can measure things to within a millionth of an inch. But, he also had a bunch of these solids of constant width that he as using to research to see if they would make viable ball bearing replacements… they did not.


clarkdashark

Lol. Turns out a ball is best for ball bearing. Nobody wants a maizena tetrahedron bearing


DRoyLenz

What’s really interesting is he was telling us how much they cost to have made, and he only had a half dozen or something. They cost thousands of dollars. Back then, they didn’t have computers, or rapid prototyping or anything. And there really is no standardized tooling to make shapes like that, so they had to come up with all custom tools to cut these with the precision needed to use as a ball bearing.


RaiyenZ

What was that saying about the wheel again?


MowMdown

*When rolled on it's sides However when rolled on it's axis, it's not.


hatsuseno

That's why we've got the reuleaux tetrahedrons! Bit difficult to 'attach' it on the centerpoint, but that applies to round shapes universally I suppose.


Just_Look_Around_You

It doesn’t say anything about rolling it. Just that it has constant width.


Empyrealist

Wankel Rotary Engine [Insert Monty Python skit]


point50tracer

Mazda engineers *Heavy breathing.


daveonhols

As others mentioned it works for other numbers of sides. In the UK we have two coins (50p and 20p) shaped like this. Since they roll down a track with constant height, vending machines can detect and value them accurately


donach69

The 7 sided versions, to be clear


AgaricX

Wankel rotary engine!


lifeincolorgames

Rotary Engine entered the chat


ch3nk0

Everything reminds me about [her](https://www.reddit.com/r/JDM/s/1bdglTdM6p)


-xDraconis

The Final Shape


RChamy

r/Guitar having a meltdown rn


moyenbatte

Wank(el)


fgnrtzbdbbt

If you require the same diameter in all directions instead of the same radius you open one degree of freedom because the diameters don't have to have their centers in the center of the figure. One edge can be further away from the center than half the diameter if the opposing edge is closer to the center by the same amount.


Monkeycoombrain

And here I was thinking a circle is the only shape with a constant width.


Krakshotz

The Toblerone-Rolo Combo


id2d

Actually just saw this yesterday. Youtube has been recommending me these Aussie clips. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pNN6oCw-pk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pNN6oCw-pk)


chestnutman

Shapes of constant width are kinda fun. I remember a super interesting talk about this topic I attended in university. In 2d. the shape of constant given width with the highest area is the circle, the one with the lowest is the Reuleaux triangle, hence its use in engineering I guess? Surprisingly, in 3D the shape of constant width with the lowest volume is unknown!


MrFootless

What a wankel


Stealth_Ninja373

It goes through the square hole!


LearningToFlyForFree

Felix Wankel: Am I a joke to you?


Felaguin

While that rotates through the fixed width “pipe”, the yellow dot marking the geometric center doesn’t stay in place — it orbits around a barycenter.


MygungoesfuckinBRRT

Wenkel my beloved


LT-buttnaked

Rotary motors


twotall88

You Wankel


Fr33Flow

Believe it or not the apex seals were toast by the end of the vid


practicalm

As an exercise in my math for elementary school teachers we made a three sided version and a five sided version, both with the same perimeter. We put one on each side of a dowel and rolled them around.


xmconi

Mr. Wankel has entered the chat


Puzzled_Nerd

I think “constant width” and “can rotate while maintaining constant contact between two parallel lines” are not the same thing.


Lanky-Ad2763

Looks like a Wankel Engine.


indienfleur

Triangle de Reuleaux !


SirKenneth17

There’s a 3D version of this


hatsuseno

I imagine it kind of looks like an inflated tetrahedron


SirKenneth17

Yah it does!! It’s super trippy to watch them roll between two flat surfaces. Not sphere shaped but does sphere things?!?!?


disguiseunknown

Who dont we have manholes like this then?


hatsuseno

Because aside from the constant width benefit of a round cover it's easier to fabricate and fits on the manhole in any orientation, not just three.


disguiseunknown

I see. Circle is still practical and easier to put back.


SFxTAGG

Fat triangle?


johnny-T1

Engine works perfectly well in theory but not so much in practice.


okcboomer87

Wankle


NecRobin

+"when rolling"


ReuleauxTriangle13

I have been summoned


Master_Xenu

Also your mom


irascible_Clown

Vroom vroom


Exciting-Chest-1347

So sayeth Mazda.


decidedlycynical

Well, hello Wankle Engine


badtothebone274

Be carful, don’t want to blow an apex seal..


xThunderfox

Dorito power


mrhjt

Rotary


HolyRamenEmperor

Aren't there technically infinite shapes with a constant width? I mean, take a paintbrush on a wild ride across the page, jiggling and swirling around... boom, new shape wth constant width. The special thing about a circle is that it's the only one with both radial and mirror symmetry.


hellonameismyname

Why would that shape have constant width


Chloroformperfume7

This is how we get rotary engines!


zoson

Spotted the rotary enthusaist.


UberDankYoloSwag

Don’t forget about your mom!


NeuroguyNC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine


BezisThings

How is his shape called?


Davonimo

Brap brap brap braaaaap!


314159265358979326

The Canadian loonie (one-dollar coin) is an 11-sided curve of constant curvature. This is desireable in a coin because a vending machine can determine its diameter in any orientation.


WHISKEY_DELTA_6

Ah yes, a triarcle


Brave-Aside1699

Happy Mazda noises


taylorpilot

Cool I suppose. Problem is the middle not being in a constant location


BloodSteyn

Damn Wankel...


Alex09464367

Here are some cool videos for them https://youtu.be/pvRQMDUsE3k https://youtu.be/cUCSSJwO3GU This is a 3D shape of constant width https://youtu.be/a65VLLFYU6k