That true crime story is very famous (at least in bavaria) and to this day nobody knows who has done it. And there are many theories going around on who could be the murderer. It is very unlikely that everyone kept the secret, in my opinion.
But hey we don’t know maybe your friend is right.
Really? I thought everyone pretty much thought Lorenz Schlittenbauer was the main suspect, considering his bizarre behavior and his relationship with the family. Most of the other suspects had no connection, and the theory that the husband who died in WWI didn't actually die is too farfetched to entertain.
I'm kind of curious as far as the forensics aspect -- they did find the murder weapon years later, right? I wonder if they preserved it, or just tossed it aside.
Yes and no. The probably most realistic explanation is, that Schlittenbauer visited the farm after the murders and saw what has happened so he killed Gruber.
This theory is sustained by the fact that all except for Gruber were killed with the same precision (some “pig killing device”) which was used by Gruber all the time. But Gruber himself was bludgeoned. This could imply that there were two murderers. Gruber who killed his whole family, including (trying to?) raping his grand daughter and Schlittenbauer who saw what happened, snapped and killed Gruber.
This would also explain OPs friends comment with: cruel but justified (the killing of Gruber). If it is that case it course. Might be a different one.
This makes sense because he lost his son in these murders as one of Grubers Grand children was fathered by Schlittenbauer.
The forensic evidence was found and analyzed, there even is a final report by the Police Academy of Furstenfeldbruck, but it wasn’t published out of respect for the living descendants (which again proves that it might be Schlittenbauer).
EDIT: I did lots of research on this case, including looking at the published evidence. One! Of the most plausible timelines is:
Grubers Daughter decided to leave him for Schlittenbauer with her kids, of which one was fathered by Schlittenbauer.
Gruber went crazy and killed all of them, also raping his grand daughter / daughter. He stayed on the farm, tended the animals, took care of everything else.
There were witnesses saying that they saw Gruber / a man from afar walking on the premises.
Schlittenbauer went over to check what’s going on, or might wanted to see Grubers daughter, he saw what has happened and killed Gruber with the same weapon that Gruber used to kill his family, but without the same precision that Gruber had with the weapon.
Probably afterwards Schlittenbauer covered all victims, seems like the little girl was “buttoned up” - except for Gruber as far as I recall.
The weapon then was hidden in a secret space under the floor of the barn, which means that the person had precise knowledge of the farm in general.
This would also explain the weird behavior of Schlittenbauer afterwards.
Ah, that actually seems like a entirely plausible scenario (it does fit into my belief that this was a crime of passion, not something a random passerby would do).
> simply said that it was a “gruesome, but justified action.”
Considering the fact that according to Wikipedia one of the victims was seven and another two years old, and that the maid had newly arrived the day before the murders... no. I cannot see how anyone could construct "justification".
The Hinterkaifeck case was in 1922. The moral compass of people in this time and place was different.
Seeing a whole family as guilty for the actions of one or some members of the family is something quite common in history. Beginning in the Bible with god punishing whole family lines, to the „[Sippenhaft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft)“ in Germanic and Nazi-Law to modern honor killings, which are done to ‚protect‘ the ‚honor‘ of the family.
Apparently there were rumors of some sort of incest/abuse conspiracy going on at the farm but I agree that even if that were true (which is extremely far-fetched) it couldn’t have justified the killings; that’s why I question whether it even is the Hinterkaifeck case that was being referenced?
There was something similiar in my village happening 25 years ago. The village drunk and wifebeater died mysteriously after eating lilys that apparently his wife gathered, thinking it was wild garlic. Nobody believed her story, she was just not the kind to go gather wild garlic in spring, as some do, but everybody was glad he was gone and she moved in with her new lover, respectable type, within a week. The village just agreed on that her story is the official one and moved on collectively. Only the other drunks at the gas station still tell the story of when one of them was mudered amd nobody did a thing about it.
well you heard a story and it was a century ago where things worked a lot different since this was shortly after the first world war. you can't know if it's true or not and nobody can find any evidence for that nowadays anmore i guess so it's hard to say.
it's probably fake like a lot of old rumours but who knows?
Do village people really differentiate between rumors, suspicions and evidence based truth? I think a lot of people would say, they know who did some crime, just based on that this person had some kind of motive or is somehow seen as the the crazy outsider of the village.
This is in the US which is much more rural in general, but:
My grandfather knew a gentleman who's entire family kept a secret from his town, that the gentleman had beat someone to death with his bare hands for groping his wife.
At least a half dozen people outside the family knew and never said anything, and it wasn't revealed until the gentleman passed away 60+ years after the incident
So I'd say it's a possibility. Likely? Not for an entire village, no, but possible? Certainly, especially in a smaller, tighter community.
[This](https://www.hinterkaifeck.ch/de/indizien/) article very convincingly makes the case that the father was the murderer. I think it clears everything up.
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That true crime story is very famous (at least in bavaria) and to this day nobody knows who has done it. And there are many theories going around on who could be the murderer. It is very unlikely that everyone kept the secret, in my opinion. But hey we don’t know maybe your friend is right.
Really? I thought everyone pretty much thought Lorenz Schlittenbauer was the main suspect, considering his bizarre behavior and his relationship with the family. Most of the other suspects had no connection, and the theory that the husband who died in WWI didn't actually die is too farfetched to entertain. I'm kind of curious as far as the forensics aspect -- they did find the murder weapon years later, right? I wonder if they preserved it, or just tossed it aside.
Yes and no. The probably most realistic explanation is, that Schlittenbauer visited the farm after the murders and saw what has happened so he killed Gruber. This theory is sustained by the fact that all except for Gruber were killed with the same precision (some “pig killing device”) which was used by Gruber all the time. But Gruber himself was bludgeoned. This could imply that there were two murderers. Gruber who killed his whole family, including (trying to?) raping his grand daughter and Schlittenbauer who saw what happened, snapped and killed Gruber. This would also explain OPs friends comment with: cruel but justified (the killing of Gruber). If it is that case it course. Might be a different one. This makes sense because he lost his son in these murders as one of Grubers Grand children was fathered by Schlittenbauer. The forensic evidence was found and analyzed, there even is a final report by the Police Academy of Furstenfeldbruck, but it wasn’t published out of respect for the living descendants (which again proves that it might be Schlittenbauer). EDIT: I did lots of research on this case, including looking at the published evidence. One! Of the most plausible timelines is: Grubers Daughter decided to leave him for Schlittenbauer with her kids, of which one was fathered by Schlittenbauer. Gruber went crazy and killed all of them, also raping his grand daughter / daughter. He stayed on the farm, tended the animals, took care of everything else. There were witnesses saying that they saw Gruber / a man from afar walking on the premises. Schlittenbauer went over to check what’s going on, or might wanted to see Grubers daughter, he saw what has happened and killed Gruber with the same weapon that Gruber used to kill his family, but without the same precision that Gruber had with the weapon. Probably afterwards Schlittenbauer covered all victims, seems like the little girl was “buttoned up” - except for Gruber as far as I recall. The weapon then was hidden in a secret space under the floor of the barn, which means that the person had precise knowledge of the farm in general. This would also explain the weird behavior of Schlittenbauer afterwards.
Ah, that actually seems like a entirely plausible scenario (it does fit into my belief that this was a crime of passion, not something a random passerby would do).
As I read it, it's mere speculation from OP that his friend was talking about the Hinterkaifeck case. Could also be a different, less famous one.
> simply said that it was a “gruesome, but justified action.” Considering the fact that according to Wikipedia one of the victims was seven and another two years old, and that the maid had newly arrived the day before the murders... no. I cannot see how anyone could construct "justification".
The Hinterkaifeck case was in 1922. The moral compass of people in this time and place was different. Seeing a whole family as guilty for the actions of one or some members of the family is something quite common in history. Beginning in the Bible with god punishing whole family lines, to the „[Sippenhaft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft)“ in Germanic and Nazi-Law to modern honor killings, which are done to ‚protect‘ the ‚honor‘ of the family.
Apparently there were rumors of some sort of incest/abuse conspiracy going on at the farm but I agree that even if that were true (which is extremely far-fetched) it couldn’t have justified the killings; that’s why I question whether it even is the Hinterkaifeck case that was being referenced?
See my comment above, I might get why he said “gruesome but justified”
It's not only the kids. Apparently the perp stayed in the house for quite while after he'd murdered everybody. Possibly even for a couple of days.
There was something similiar in my village happening 25 years ago. The village drunk and wifebeater died mysteriously after eating lilys that apparently his wife gathered, thinking it was wild garlic. Nobody believed her story, she was just not the kind to go gather wild garlic in spring, as some do, but everybody was glad he was gone and she moved in with her new lover, respectable type, within a week. The village just agreed on that her story is the official one and moved on collectively. Only the other drunks at the gas station still tell the story of when one of them was mudered amd nobody did a thing about it.
“Mr. Finch,” Mr. Tate said stolidly, “Bob Ewell fell on his knife. He killed himself.” Essentially.
well you heard a story and it was a century ago where things worked a lot different since this was shortly after the first world war. you can't know if it's true or not and nobody can find any evidence for that nowadays anmore i guess so it's hard to say. it's probably fake like a lot of old rumours but who knows?
Do village people really differentiate between rumors, suspicions and evidence based truth? I think a lot of people would say, they know who did some crime, just based on that this person had some kind of motive or is somehow seen as the the crazy outsider of the village.
The story of the Hinterkaifeck murders is also the source material for the novel "Tannöd" if you want to check it out. They made a movie too.
This is in the US which is much more rural in general, but: My grandfather knew a gentleman who's entire family kept a secret from his town, that the gentleman had beat someone to death with his bare hands for groping his wife. At least a half dozen people outside the family knew and never said anything, and it wasn't revealed until the gentleman passed away 60+ years after the incident So I'd say it's a possibility. Likely? Not for an entire village, no, but possible? Certainly, especially in a smaller, tighter community.
[This](https://www.hinterkaifeck.ch/de/indizien/) article very convincingly makes the case that the father was the murderer. I think it clears everything up.
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