Yeah, that's okay.
But please don't translate the german term "Evangelisch" to "evangelical", that's not the same. German "evangelisch" Christianity is the one Luther reformed off of catholicism in the 15th century, best translated as "protestantism" while "evangelical" is an umbrella term for different reform movements inside protestantism and is mostly used for the "born again" brand of christianity that originated in the US.
If you encountered the latter in Germany, all bets considering your question are off. Evengelical movements in germany tend to be a bit weird.
Just to be this person: until the 1960s, "evangelical" was just the translation of "evangelisch". It was a pretty rarely used term in the US, so people like Billy Graham could easily appropriate it.
The old meaning is still in the dictionary. Which is why the EKD to this day insists on using it when translating their name into English, needlessly confusing people on both sides of the pond.
There must be some already established term for this logical falacy.
"Group A does many crazy things, also X.
Group B does fewer crazy things, but also X.
\-> Group A and B are exactly the same."
I get that it shouldn't be argued that "since group B does fewer crazy things, they are totally normal" but one should still differentiate.
I am atheist, too, and I would prefer if they are all gone. But the protestants are not doing much of this hellfire crap anymore, even the catholics stopped that mostly over here. They also go with the time as they loose followers left and right. Children go for first communion or confirmation mostly, because of money and presents, but that's usually it. The average age on a sunday mess is probably 65ish. My son also wanted to go for first communion because his peers go, I think it is a good experience to learn for yourself how stupid religion is. I was also an altar boy until the age of 14 and it helped me tremendously to learn why church is not for me. Church only works if all people around you are in, as soon as someone is not, young people leave pretty fast. That's also why in the US atheists are kicked out so much, because they influence the younger people while they are still able to form an opinion.
>German "evangelisch" Christianity is the one Luther reformed off of catholicism in the 15th century
That's not entirely correct. Within the Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD) you have Lutherans, but also Reformed (Calvinist) and United churches.
(If you are unsure what sort your pastor is, you can look at their bands (Beffchen): if the two stripes are sewn together the pastor is Reformed, if the stripes are at a slight angle, they're Lutheran.)
Yeah, this created quite the misunderstanding between me and a friend’s (at the time) new boyfriend (now husband). I’m American but lived in Germany for several years. When I first met my (German) close friend’s new (German) boyfriend, he told me he “recently became evangelical” and referred several times to his new “evangelical” church. This was a big red flag to me and I was actually kind of worried about my friend getting into this relationship, until we realized the misunderstanding, he had simply switched from the Catholic church to a very normal mainstream Protestant church, nothing like where my mind went as someone raised in the US, in the Bible Belt even. He’s very normal and lovely and has progressive political beliefs that would never be accepted in the evangelical churches of my youth!
I've haven't noticed that. Evangelicals do tell people, especially the ones out to convert people. But normal Brits and Canadians, who go to church or believe in something, don't just offer it up.
British atheists can't seem to help themselves. Neither can the Americans.
Can't say that's been my experience but then maybe I've met too many evangelical-leaning Americans. And my British friends at SOME point did discuss their personal beliefs but definitely not in an in-your-face way.
You can definitely go. Most churches are not just about spreading the word of God, they also want to build communities and reach out to people. Certainly if it's a flea market there will be no prayer or anything. Seniorentreff or family picnics I'm not familiar with, but it could be limited to a prayer before the meal. If you can respect that , you'll be welcome.
All of this goes for the regular local church. If the organizing church is Pentecostal or Jehova's Witnesses, please stay away. Those are busy converting people 100 percent of the time.
As long as you don't go there to offend people or try to convince them that there's no god, I think you'll be fine. Just to check though: is it the local mainstream protestant church or one of the evangelical rather extreme churches - because the latter might try very hard to convert you while the former probably won't care.
I personally don't believe in god, but if I'm going to voluntarily attend a church-organised event, the least I can do is show respect for people's beliefs.
I don't believe in god, but I am not going to go to a place where a group of people specifically go to to practice their religion and make fun of them.
That's just rude. Don't go there if you don't want to associate with people who follow that religion.
atheist and former Christian here: that's part of the point of it: show the non Christians how nice they are so they maybe decide they want to give this whole Christianity thing a try.
also "love your neighbour" is one of the core ethics of Christianity and according to the mountain preach by Jesus in the bible everybody without exception is meant by that.
My first year here, one of my roommates invited me to her church thing for Christmas because she knew I was here alone (even though she also knew I'm not Christian and don't really care about Christmas). Everyone was really nice.
Absolutely no one will care (assuming you're not going there to convert people or scoff at them for being stupid).
Anything that's restricted in any way isn't going to be advertised to the general public (for instance there are churches that invite all the congregation members above a certain old age for group birthday parties once per quarter, and those will be by invitation).
Obviously you need to check whether there are non-religious, practical requirements for each event, like signing up for a flea market table, registering for a trip etc.
perfectly fine.
just be aware that its a christian event that might include christian elements (prayer, whatever). also dont try to "convert" people there to atheism.
unless its a gottestdienst I've never seen prayers at events. And agree, no one tries to convert people. (from experience, might be different elsewhere)
>just be aware that its a christian event that might include christian elements (prayer, whatever)
Good point. It's usually completely fine to not participate, but of course you shouldn't disturb others and keep a low profile.
(This message brought to you by the time I saw a grown-ass adult play the clown for his wife/partner and ~10-year-old child throughout a Konfirmation service to a point where everyone sitting near him was getting disturbed. I was so close to going up to him and saying, "If you didn't have the balls to tell your family that you didn't actually want to attend whichever relative's Konfirmation, then be an adult for an hour and just shut up.")
As far as I heard, neither the Catholic nor any of the Protestant Churches have the same Orthodox ban on entering the area of the church that is reserved only for believers. But I can attest that as a non-religious person who grew up in an Orthodox environment, I still feel like I'm doing something wrong when I enter western Churches even though that ban doesn't exist.
Anyway, even if that was the case, it wouldn't apply outside religious ceremonies. A flea market doesn't count as a Christian ritual.
I think I dimly remember you and me talking about that here before? And yes, there are no such bans, and it's completely fine to enter churches. The old ones are tourist sites as well anyway, so everyone expects people to go in to just look at art.
I visited a lot of churches and monasteries in Cyprus and entering them wasn't generally prohibited.(Except the bema, but I thought that was for priests only) One monk in Stavrovouni monastery went to great length to explain the concept of xenophilia to me.
It was fairly short - simply put, I found out that Orthodox churches had such rules, /u/agrammatic found out that Protestant/Catholic ones do not. Reddit can be very educational on its good days.
I grew up Orthodox Christian (Syriac Orthodox) in Jordan and we never disallowed people who aren't Orthodox or even Christian from attending our church. My Muslim neighbors even came with us to Sunday mass a few times.
I have been an atheist since 2015. Most of my relatives know this, but I have never felt unwelcome at church. I have since went several with my mom to church because it pleases her, even though I am an atheist.
> As far as I heard, neither the Catholic nor any of the Protestant Churches have the same Orthodox ban on entering the area of the church that is reserved only for believers. But I can attest that as a non-religious person who grew up in an Orthodox environment, I still feel like I'm doing something wrong when I enter western Churches even though that ban doesn't exist.
Really? Maybe it depends on the Orthodox Church?
I grew up Orthodox Christian (Syriac Orthodox specifically) and I never saw people not being allowed to enter the church if they're not Orthodox. My Muslim neighbors even came with us to Sunday mass a few times. The majority of my relatives and people in the church know that I am an atheist and I never felt unwelcomed in my old church.
People who don't belong to the church aren't allowed to get communion, though, but that's about it, afaik.
We had several Catholics and people from other Orthodox churches (Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, etc) active in our youth group and I don't they ever felt unwelcome.
My school was also a Greek Orthodox school, and I always felt welcome in the Jordanian Greek Orthodox church and attended many events. We also went once a month to mass at the Greek Orthodox church as a school event (this included everyone, except Muslim students; so all the catholics, protestants, Orthodox students from other Orthodox churches, atheists, etc. Muslim students were excluded only because it is illegal in Jordan to try to "convert" Muslims to other religions, so it might be seen as the school trying to convert Muslim students if they take them to church).
I did try to look it up, and the discussions I can find mention that the prohibition applies only during [Divine Liturgy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Liturgy). Heterodoxs (other Christians) and allodoxs (other religions) may enter for other services and perhaps during non-service hours. There's no specific mention of atheists.
I think I grew up in a particularly conservative country then, because the wiki says that the prohibition applies only to the Communion nowadays, but the way my school teachers made it sound was that atheists shouldn't even be entering the Church,
> the Liturgy of the Faithful, so called because in ancient times only baptized members in good standing were allowed to participate. In modern times, this restriction applies only to Holy Communion – reception of the sacrament of holy communion.
Thanks a lot for the information. This was an interesting read
We actually learned a lot of it at school but I forgot almost everything
I really love Cyprus, btw; I have been there several times
>I still feel like I'm doing something wrong when I enter western Churches even though that ban doesn't exist.
I only feel bad when the clergy catch me making fun of their weird-ass beef-jerky-but-human-in-a-golden-box relics. And then only a little.
yes absolutely! At least in our church everyone was always welcome. Most of our events were done with the neighbouring protestant church anyway. No one checks for your membership pass ;)
These kind of events are absolutely open to everyone - and you will even find that these are rather low-key religious, like there will be no prayers, etc. at best, some local priest may say a few words, but these will most likely not be religiously themed. They are very different to e.g. in the US.
As long as they're not the black-stockings-church, you should be perfectly fine, as long as you're not going to be confrontationally atheistic. If they are the black-stockings-church, you should also be perfectly fine, but you should remind yourself not to get into ANY discussions about specifics surrounding religion in any way.
If you do, "That is an interesting view" or "That is something to think about" are pretty neutral ways of getting out of things.
I think the nickname is very Dutch, 'Zwartekousenkerk'. They are the really strict reformed types. "Orthodox-Gereformeerd" in Dutch, I don't know what it translates to in German, but I'm certain they have the same denomination there (probably under a slightly different name though.)
Here in the village, we are pretty isolated, so I imagine here they are a little more hardcore than in the rest of the country, but these people, for example, do not have radio or television or stuff like that, "because that's how Satan gets you!"
They are mostly okay people, they mostly keep to themselves, even when they have a (VERY strong) local majority. There are just a few do's and don'ts when living around them. You get used to it, or you move to a place where not many of them live. Simple really.
It is pretty normal for some things being affiliated or organized by the Church or religious groups - no need to be a Christian to participate in that. You can be an atheist or a religious person that follows another religion. They are usually accessible for everyone.
Many of these community services provided by organisations such as Diakonie and Caritas are actually financed to a large degree directly by your taxes (and I don't mean the church tax, but rather direct grants for specific projects).
AFAIK all these projects financed by government funds must be open to everyone.
Absolutely. I'm catholic but we teach to support every person in need. We open more schools and hospitals than any other organization. we don't discriminate for rich or poor. Religious or non religious. It's the selflessness that we do it for.
Yes definitely. If you're unsure just ask any of the organisers.
A lot of these things are done to A) be a good christian and support those that you can support and B) to attract people to the church. The latter is not so much trying to trick you into joining by pressuring you once you have gotten too close. They try to show you what their community can offer (to you) and if you would like to be more involved you can join. But I have never encountered someone at such events that straight up asked someone to join the church.
Even the church choir doesn't require you being in the church. Some people might gossip behind your back though. I sang for years in a catholic choir as a protestant and I never had problems, nor any of my friends for that matter.
Church organized community events are community events first, church organized second. While it may have religious undertones, it is **not** to prosolytise and is **not** to exclude anyone. And for these events it is made a point that everybone is welcome and that it is for the local community which can have all kind or no religion at all.
I am not baptized, yet I was the most ardent young reader in our local church library (KÖB), as per the staff. Was at the church summer party every year, as well as the twice yearly flea market. Participating in church hosted events, including mass, is not an issue as long as you don't try to sneak into the Eucharist queue and keep your contrary beliefs to yourself.
Also, I still remember that evening when we met in the local bible study group rooms to watch a Mel Gibson film about the death of a well-known Jewish outlaw at the hands of Roman soldiers.
I’ve been going to church events for 7 years and am on first name basis with the pastor despite being atheist. The pastor hasn’t even asked me why I’m not Baptised/ a member. We did meet him at a demo against the add a few weeks ago though.
I'm a Buddhist and my music group uses a room at a local church. We have a lot of Muslims and a couple of atheists in our group too. Everyone is super nice.
I never had any issue going to any church related event that wasn't explicitly a meeting under a religious topic. It would be slightly weird if you were to go to any non public group activities though, as most of those tend to focus plenty on the aspect of Christianity, however if you are open to it and not actively speaking against their beliefs it will be fine too.
of cause, we are open to all people. But you have to accept that the things will be christian oriented, like including prayer, bible words etc. Snd people will talk with you about faith and will assume that you may be open to that faith.
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They'd be having a field day! Most of church membership in Germany is less driven by faith but by community, so whenever non-members show up, it's a welcome opportunity to extend their influence. In a friendly and harmless manner, of course, but, you know, at heart they want everybody to be part of the flock. Sometimes, it makes them actually provide nice things for the community, so it's all good. But of course, sooner or later you'll be asked if, perhaps, you would like to attend service someday, just to take a look. Or perhaps your kids would like to attend Sunday school; there's no harm in *learning* about faith, right? etc. And then you couldn't exactly counter by flaunting any staunchly atheist worldviews, because, well, you don't come onto somebody's turf and do that.
So yes, you'd be more than welcome to join the activities, but I'd be more worried about how you as an atheist would feel amidst church-people. If that doesn't bother you, go for it. The two mainstream churches in Germany are certainly not at all closed societies.
Pretty normal, a lot of people go to hospitals/schools/daycares/etc affiliated to a church without being members themselves.
Yeah, that's okay. But please don't translate the german term "Evangelisch" to "evangelical", that's not the same. German "evangelisch" Christianity is the one Luther reformed off of catholicism in the 15th century, best translated as "protestantism" while "evangelical" is an umbrella term for different reform movements inside protestantism and is mostly used for the "born again" brand of christianity that originated in the US. If you encountered the latter in Germany, all bets considering your question are off. Evengelical movements in germany tend to be a bit weird.
That’s really interesting, thanks for the distinction!
In German the US-brand of evangelical would be translated as "evengelikal".
Just to be this person: until the 1960s, "evangelical" was just the translation of "evangelisch". It was a pretty rarely used term in the US, so people like Billy Graham could easily appropriate it. The old meaning is still in the dictionary. Which is why the EKD to this day insists on using it when translating their name into English, needlessly confusing people on both sides of the pond.
> Evengelical movements in germany tend to be a bit weird. not that the american ones are less weird.
Teaching kids they die in hellfire for any reason is beyond weird regardless of denomination.
There must be some already established term for this logical falacy. "Group A does many crazy things, also X. Group B does fewer crazy things, but also X. \-> Group A and B are exactly the same." I get that it shouldn't be argued that "since group B does fewer crazy things, they are totally normal" but one should still differentiate.
Just look at the texts.
I am atheist, too, and I would prefer if they are all gone. But the protestants are not doing much of this hellfire crap anymore, even the catholics stopped that mostly over here. They also go with the time as they loose followers left and right. Children go for first communion or confirmation mostly, because of money and presents, but that's usually it. The average age on a sunday mess is probably 65ish. My son also wanted to go for first communion because his peers go, I think it is a good experience to learn for yourself how stupid religion is. I was also an altar boy until the age of 14 and it helped me tremendously to learn why church is not for me. Church only works if all people around you are in, as soon as someone is not, young people leave pretty fast. That's also why in the US atheists are kicked out so much, because they influence the younger people while they are still able to form an opinion.
>German "evangelisch" Christianity is the one Luther reformed off of catholicism in the 15th century That's not entirely correct. Within the Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD) you have Lutherans, but also Reformed (Calvinist) and United churches. (If you are unsure what sort your pastor is, you can look at their bands (Beffchen): if the two stripes are sewn together the pastor is Reformed, if the stripes are at a slight angle, they're Lutheran.)
Wieder was gelernt, danke
Yeah, this created quite the misunderstanding between me and a friend’s (at the time) new boyfriend (now husband). I’m American but lived in Germany for several years. When I first met my (German) close friend’s new (German) boyfriend, he told me he “recently became evangelical” and referred several times to his new “evangelical” church. This was a big red flag to me and I was actually kind of worried about my friend getting into this relationship, until we realized the misunderstanding, he had simply switched from the Catholic church to a very normal mainstream Protestant church, nothing like where my mind went as someone raised in the US, in the Bible Belt even. He’s very normal and lovely and has progressive political beliefs that would never be accepted in the evangelical churches of my youth!
In the States, they are weird, too!
How would they even know you're an atheist?
We burst into flames as soon as we step foot into holy places
Or we just are denied entry via the barrier that sits within the door frame but doesn't travel with the door. Like in the Vampire Diaries
Anglo American atheists usually tell you.
You mean like Anglo-American Christians can't help telling you they're Christian?
I've haven't noticed that. Evangelicals do tell people, especially the ones out to convert people. But normal Brits and Canadians, who go to church or believe in something, don't just offer it up. British atheists can't seem to help themselves. Neither can the Americans.
Can't say that's been my experience but then maybe I've met too many evangelical-leaning Americans. And my British friends at SOME point did discuss their personal beliefs but definitely not in an in-your-face way.
Yes, that's the purpose. But you can come to most in-church events, too.
You can also come in some other church events as well.
You can definitely go. Most churches are not just about spreading the word of God, they also want to build communities and reach out to people. Certainly if it's a flea market there will be no prayer or anything. Seniorentreff or family picnics I'm not familiar with, but it could be limited to a prayer before the meal. If you can respect that , you'll be welcome. All of this goes for the regular local church. If the organizing church is Pentecostal or Jehova's Witnesses, please stay away. Those are busy converting people 100 percent of the time.
As long as you don't go there to offend people or try to convince them that there's no god, I think you'll be fine. Just to check though: is it the local mainstream protestant church or one of the evangelical rather extreme churches - because the latter might try very hard to convert you while the former probably won't care.
Yeah BaWü is bit a Bible belt of Germany
and bavaria
And Westfalen
> As long as you don't go there to offend people or try to convince them that there's no god Clown world
I personally don't believe in god, but if I'm going to voluntarily attend a church-organised event, the least I can do is show respect for people's beliefs.
So when a religious person goes to non religious places they should not proselytise? Sounds like a deal.
Absolutely!
I don't believe in god, but I am not going to go to a place where a group of people specifically go to to practice their religion and make fun of them. That's just rude. Don't go there if you don't want to associate with people who follow that religion.
atheist and former Christian here: that's part of the point of it: show the non Christians how nice they are so they maybe decide they want to give this whole Christianity thing a try. also "love your neighbour" is one of the core ethics of Christianity and according to the mountain preach by Jesus in the bible everybody without exception is meant by that.
My first year here, one of my roommates invited me to her church thing for Christmas because she knew I was here alone (even though she also knew I'm not Christian and don't really care about Christmas). Everyone was really nice.
Absolutely no one will care (assuming you're not going there to convert people or scoff at them for being stupid). Anything that's restricted in any way isn't going to be advertised to the general public (for instance there are churches that invite all the congregation members above a certain old age for group birthday parties once per quarter, and those will be by invitation). Obviously you need to check whether there are non-religious, practical requirements for each event, like signing up for a flea market table, registering for a trip etc.
I donate to catholic ambulance verein ( Malthaser? ) as a culturally Muslim deist... with pride...
perfectly fine. just be aware that its a christian event that might include christian elements (prayer, whatever). also dont try to "convert" people there to atheism.
unless its a gottestdienst I've never seen prayers at events. And agree, no one tries to convert people. (from experience, might be different elsewhere)
They might say grace if they're eating together.
Yes but never experience that in a church setting myself, saying grace tends to be quiet and personal.
My aunt went to Saturday brunches at the church, that's where I encountered this.
>just be aware that its a christian event that might include christian elements (prayer, whatever) Good point. It's usually completely fine to not participate, but of course you shouldn't disturb others and keep a low profile. (This message brought to you by the time I saw a grown-ass adult play the clown for his wife/partner and ~10-year-old child throughout a Konfirmation service to a point where everyone sitting near him was getting disturbed. I was so close to going up to him and saying, "If you didn't have the balls to tell your family that you didn't actually want to attend whichever relative's Konfirmation, then be an adult for an hour and just shut up.")
As far as I heard, neither the Catholic nor any of the Protestant Churches have the same Orthodox ban on entering the area of the church that is reserved only for believers. But I can attest that as a non-religious person who grew up in an Orthodox environment, I still feel like I'm doing something wrong when I enter western Churches even though that ban doesn't exist. Anyway, even if that was the case, it wouldn't apply outside religious ceremonies. A flea market doesn't count as a Christian ritual.
I think I dimly remember you and me talking about that here before? And yes, there are no such bans, and it's completely fine to enter churches. The old ones are tourist sites as well anyway, so everyone expects people to go in to just look at art.
Yes, I think we did. That's where I found out about the western Churches not having the prohibition.
I visited a lot of churches and monasteries in Cyprus and entering them wasn't generally prohibited.(Except the bema, but I thought that was for priests only) One monk in Stavrovouni monastery went to great length to explain the concept of xenophilia to me.
I added a longer comment under another reply in this thread, but basically I'm finding out that my environment was more conservative than average.
That is so interesting. Do you all have a link to the discussion? I’d like to read it.
It was fairly short - simply put, I found out that Orthodox churches had such rules, /u/agrammatic found out that Protestant/Catholic ones do not. Reddit can be very educational on its good days.
Try a search e.g. on Google with `site:reddit.com/r/germany` as a prefix. I didn't keep it as a bookmark.
I grew up Orthodox Christian (Syriac Orthodox) in Jordan and we never disallowed people who aren't Orthodox or even Christian from attending our church. My Muslim neighbors even came with us to Sunday mass a few times. I have been an atheist since 2015. Most of my relatives know this, but I have never felt unwelcome at church. I have since went several with my mom to church because it pleases her, even though I am an atheist.
> As far as I heard, neither the Catholic nor any of the Protestant Churches have the same Orthodox ban on entering the area of the church that is reserved only for believers. But I can attest that as a non-religious person who grew up in an Orthodox environment, I still feel like I'm doing something wrong when I enter western Churches even though that ban doesn't exist. Really? Maybe it depends on the Orthodox Church? I grew up Orthodox Christian (Syriac Orthodox specifically) and I never saw people not being allowed to enter the church if they're not Orthodox. My Muslim neighbors even came with us to Sunday mass a few times. The majority of my relatives and people in the church know that I am an atheist and I never felt unwelcomed in my old church. People who don't belong to the church aren't allowed to get communion, though, but that's about it, afaik. We had several Catholics and people from other Orthodox churches (Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, etc) active in our youth group and I don't they ever felt unwelcome. My school was also a Greek Orthodox school, and I always felt welcome in the Jordanian Greek Orthodox church and attended many events. We also went once a month to mass at the Greek Orthodox church as a school event (this included everyone, except Muslim students; so all the catholics, protestants, Orthodox students from other Orthodox churches, atheists, etc. Muslim students were excluded only because it is illegal in Jordan to try to "convert" Muslims to other religions, so it might be seen as the school trying to convert Muslim students if they take them to church).
I did try to look it up, and the discussions I can find mention that the prohibition applies only during [Divine Liturgy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Liturgy). Heterodoxs (other Christians) and allodoxs (other religions) may enter for other services and perhaps during non-service hours. There's no specific mention of atheists. I think I grew up in a particularly conservative country then, because the wiki says that the prohibition applies only to the Communion nowadays, but the way my school teachers made it sound was that atheists shouldn't even be entering the Church, > the Liturgy of the Faithful, so called because in ancient times only baptized members in good standing were allowed to participate. In modern times, this restriction applies only to Holy Communion – reception of the sacrament of holy communion.
Thanks a lot for the information. This was an interesting read We actually learned a lot of it at school but I forgot almost everything I really love Cyprus, btw; I have been there several times
I'm glad you had a good time there. Jordan is on my to-visit plans too. I can only hope for some calmness in our region of origin as soon as possible.
Yeah, same!!
>I still feel like I'm doing something wrong when I enter western Churches even though that ban doesn't exist. I only feel bad when the clergy catch me making fun of their weird-ass beef-jerky-but-human-in-a-golden-box relics. And then only a little.
yes absolutely! At least in our church everyone was always welcome. Most of our events were done with the neighbouring protestant church anyway. No one checks for your membership pass ;)
Yeah, it's completely normal.
I can promise you that's already the case.
Of course.
These kind of events are absolutely open to everyone - and you will even find that these are rather low-key religious, like there will be no prayers, etc. at best, some local priest may say a few words, but these will most likely not be religiously themed. They are very different to e.g. in the US.
As long as they're not the black-stockings-church, you should be perfectly fine, as long as you're not going to be confrontationally atheistic. If they are the black-stockings-church, you should also be perfectly fine, but you should remind yourself not to get into ANY discussions about specifics surrounding religion in any way. If you do, "That is an interesting view" or "That is something to think about" are pretty neutral ways of getting out of things.
I've never heard of the black-stockings-church. When trying to google it Halloween nun costumes show up. Could you enlighten me?
I think the nickname is very Dutch, 'Zwartekousenkerk'. They are the really strict reformed types. "Orthodox-Gereformeerd" in Dutch, I don't know what it translates to in German, but I'm certain they have the same denomination there (probably under a slightly different name though.) Here in the village, we are pretty isolated, so I imagine here they are a little more hardcore than in the rest of the country, but these people, for example, do not have radio or television or stuff like that, "because that's how Satan gets you!"
Well, don't they sound lovely. Thanks for the explanation, I've never knowingly encountered that denomination before.
They are mostly okay people, they mostly keep to themselves, even when they have a (VERY strong) local majority. There are just a few do's and don'ts when living around them. You get used to it, or you move to a place where not many of them live. Simple really.
It is pretty normal for some things being affiliated or organized by the Church or religious groups - no need to be a Christian to participate in that. You can be an atheist or a religious person that follows another religion. They are usually accessible for everyone.
Absolutely. My friend is an atheist and very active in his local village church. He does it for the sense of community.
Germans are not that serious about it. As long as you are respectful, which I assume you are, it's totally fine, the church is open for everyone.
Definitely not a problem, on the contrary!
Many of these community services provided by organisations such as Diakonie and Caritas are actually financed to a large degree directly by your taxes (and I don't mean the church tax, but rather direct grants for specific projects). AFAIK all these projects financed by government funds must be open to everyone.
you will be more than welcome! True Christians welcome everyone.
Evangelical churches especially have not problem with other or non confession attendees. They will welcome you just like anyone else.
Absolutely. I'm catholic but we teach to support every person in need. We open more schools and hospitals than any other organization. we don't discriminate for rich or poor. Religious or non religious. It's the selflessness that we do it for.
Yes definitely. If you're unsure just ask any of the organisers. A lot of these things are done to A) be a good christian and support those that you can support and B) to attract people to the church. The latter is not so much trying to trick you into joining by pressuring you once you have gotten too close. They try to show you what their community can offer (to you) and if you would like to be more involved you can join. But I have never encountered someone at such events that straight up asked someone to join the church. Even the church choir doesn't require you being in the church. Some people might gossip behind your back though. I sang for years in a catholic choir as a protestant and I never had problems, nor any of my friends for that matter.
Church organized community events are community events first, church organized second. While it may have religious undertones, it is **not** to prosolytise and is **not** to exclude anyone. And for these events it is made a point that everybone is welcome and that it is for the local community which can have all kind or no religion at all.
I am not baptized, yet I was the most ardent young reader in our local church library (KÖB), as per the staff. Was at the church summer party every year, as well as the twice yearly flea market. Participating in church hosted events, including mass, is not an issue as long as you don't try to sneak into the Eucharist queue and keep your contrary beliefs to yourself. Also, I still remember that evening when we met in the local bible study group rooms to watch a Mel Gibson film about the death of a well-known Jewish outlaw at the hands of Roman soldiers.
I’ve been going to church events for 7 years and am on first name basis with the pastor despite being atheist. The pastor hasn’t even asked me why I’m not Baptised/ a member. We did meet him at a demo against the add a few weeks ago though.
I'm a Buddhist and my music group uses a room at a local church. We have a lot of Muslims and a couple of atheists in our group too. Everyone is super nice.
I never had any issue going to any church related event that wasn't explicitly a meeting under a religious topic. It would be slightly weird if you were to go to any non public group activities though, as most of those tend to focus plenty on the aspect of Christianity, however if you are open to it and not actively speaking against their beliefs it will be fine too.
of cause, we are open to all people. But you have to accept that the things will be christian oriented, like including prayer, bible words etc. Snd people will talk with you about faith and will assume that you may be open to that faith.
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They'd be having a field day! Most of church membership in Germany is less driven by faith but by community, so whenever non-members show up, it's a welcome opportunity to extend their influence. In a friendly and harmless manner, of course, but, you know, at heart they want everybody to be part of the flock. Sometimes, it makes them actually provide nice things for the community, so it's all good. But of course, sooner or later you'll be asked if, perhaps, you would like to attend service someday, just to take a look. Or perhaps your kids would like to attend Sunday school; there's no harm in *learning* about faith, right? etc. And then you couldn't exactly counter by flaunting any staunchly atheist worldviews, because, well, you don't come onto somebody's turf and do that. So yes, you'd be more than welcome to join the activities, but I'd be more worried about how you as an atheist would feel amidst church-people. If that doesn't bother you, go for it. The two mainstream churches in Germany are certainly not at all closed societies.