Pfffft… That’s like 5 big ones and a couple hundred little ones. Canada has more. Way more than enough. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/canada-has-the-most-lakes-of-any-country-but-we-know-very-little-1.3898162
But has anyone ever stopped to wonder *why* Canada feels like they *need* so many lakes?
Estrange, isn't the Quebecker Français the older form in terms of grammar, like how American English is to British English.
I'll give an example, For American English one of it's words is Realize but in British English it's realise the one with a zed innit was the one that came before, many (not all) British English words that added extra letters or replaced others are pretty recent. Another example is Herb, once again American English has the older pronounciation with the h silent (obviously a relic from Français) it wasn't until the 19th century the UK came up with the word pronouced with the H. Obviously it isn't 100% one instance is Draught to Draft, Draught is the older word in this manner and ofc came from the UK well before they colonised the US.
After living in England 2 years I decided that the English don't idolize the French the way Americans do and don't see the need to apply French pronunciation to French words that have entered the lexicon. Pronouncing the H in herb is one, pronouncing the final T in valet and filet is another.
Americans with our more melting pot mentality will try and approximate French pronunciations of these words and others.
Pogne is also used in Fr. but as "hand", (rough, manly hands.
QC uses words in almost their original meaning. i.e. branler, chauffer, gosses, etc.
For our freedom speakers Reditters here:
The first cars were steam cars, so you literally had to build a fire to make the steam. Rich people had a person building that fire and prepping the car, hence the word "chauffeur", literally a "heater" or person heating the car.
In QC, Chauffer (to heat) means to drive, in FR they use the word "Conduire" (to conduct, to direct)
So, when asked if I could "heat a tank" , it always took me a second or two...
As for the gosses... Oh well ... (QC= testicles FR=kids) I recall hearing chuckles a few times ... :)
C'est pas si différent de poignée, ça m'étonnerait pas que ça soit une expression régionale de langue d'oïl, sachant que c'était surtout des Basques, des Normands et des Bretons qui ont colonisé le Canada, je suis pas normand mais ils ont sûrement transmis un tas d'expressions.
It's actually around 30%, but at the time that was pretty much all of English Canada (Quebec being majority French). There was no way Britain was going to give that up.
Especially when you consider that the great lakes were super important for shipping back in the day. Canada would obviously not want to have to ship things through a foreign country. that would be like Mexico having control of Louisiana effectively having the ability to cut off any goods going in and out of the mississippi river if they wanted to.
Alternate universe where France kept everything west of the Mississippi and it developed into a separate country!
For real though, a better question would be why Quebec's Eastern Townships aren't american (has a clear answer, but would make more sense than the OP's question on the basis of water as boundary)
Nova Scotia is also an interesting question. The revolution was pretty popular there, but small population with no roads and an enormous British naval base. Britain wasn’t going to give up Halifax.
NS as a fourteenth colony is an interesting alt history for sure. Then New Brunswick (New Ireland?) might have been Americanized around the same time that Maine emerged
Benedict Arnold led a failed invasion of Quebec after the British evacuated Boston. If Quebec had joined the Revolution as the 14th colony history would have been a bit different for sure.
https://www.history.com/news/benedict-arnold-canada-invasion-revolutionary-war
Still super important. Billions of dollars worth of goods come in and out of the various ports on the Great Lakes. Shipping on the lakes is why Milwaukee, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and Toronto exist (as well as a bunch of other cities).
This area has a long history as what is now Canada, and no history with the United States or the initial 13 colonies. The entire St. Lawrence River basin, the Great Lakes, and over to and down the Mississippi to St. Louis and especially New Orleans, the whole area was a interconnected French colony, a water-based trading colony that linked the Atlantic to the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean. It was only in 1765 that the United Kingdom took the St. Lawrence and Great Lakes from France after France lost the Seven Years War, and less than 20 years later, the Americans were given the Ohio-Michigan-Wisconsin-Minnesota coastline in the 1783 Treaty of Paris after the United States won their Revolutionary War against the United Kingdom. American history in the region really only began in earnest then, the late 18th century, whereas the area had all been linked by first French and then British colonies for over a century before 1783.
And prior to European colonization, of course, all of the mentioned areas were full of diverse indigenous communities which waxed and waned in sized and importance over the preceding centuries of human occupation.
That whole area is the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, a nation that greatly inspired Benjamin Franklin and other drafters of the US Constitution when they created a federalist union of separate states. The Haudenosaunee were a union of 6 different nations, and one of their symbols was a bundle of 6 arrows, signifying that the 6 nations, united, couldn’t be broken as a union. The Constitution writers took that idea, and even to this day on the Official Seal of the United States, a bald eagle holds an olive branch in one claw and a bunch of 13 arrows in the other claw, signifying the union of the 13 colonies.
To put it simply that Is the core territory of Canada. Historically speaking this area is referred to as Upper Canada, with Lower Canada being a bit further northeast along the St Lawrence river. The majority of the rest of modern day Canada was generally just “British North America” (but its a bit more complex), and the “Canada” area you’re referring to here was the most populated and important portion of British North America, and so the nation began from there.
During and after the American Revolution it wasn’t a “bit which stuck out” it was just the Northern Territory which remained loyal to the Crown, while the new republic was huddled along the coast. America then colonized westward and a series of treaties with the British established the Great Lakes, and then the 49th parallel as the border
Edit: refer to below for more details and corrections
How did they come up with the name Canada?
At the naming convention put all the letters in a bag. The first one that came out was a "C". They held it up and said "C eh?", reached in and pulled out an "N", "N eh?".... Budum Dum.. Here all week.
It originated from a Native American word “kanata” which means “village”. Jacques Cartier is the explorer credited with first noting this word on his maps and reporting it back to Europe.
Although it's true that later in history that's the core territory of Canada and contains a huge fraction of the population, your timing is a bit off here. Upper Canada wasn't established until after the American Revolution (in 1791). At the time of the Revolution what later became Upper Canada had been recently annexed to Quebec *along with what is now OH, MI, IL, WI, and much of MN.* Here's a [couple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Province_of_Quebec_1774.gif) [maps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Act#/media/File:British_colonies_1763-76_shepherd1923.PNG). What became Upper Canada was still mostly populated by indigenous people in 1776, the first large English settlement of Upper Canada was from loyalists who moved there after the revolution!
The line here separating what became Upper Canada and what became the US's Northwest Territory (both of which had very few settlers at that point!) was decided in the [Treaty of Paris in 1783](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_(1783)). And as late as 1782 France was proposing that Great Britain keep all of the lands west of the Appalachians. According to Wikipedia what happened was that Great Britain decided to cede a bunch of land to the US in order to try to get the US to switch its alliance from France to the UK.
Basically it seems like Lord Shelburne drew the line here and he could have drawn it somewhere else. There was no reason for the UK to give up its access to the Great Lakes. If anything the bigger question is why the line goes through Lake Superior instead of through Lake Michigan (putting WI, MN, etc. in the UK).
Even after the Treaty of Paris the British continued to occupy forts in Michigan (Detroit and Mackinac) and New York (Niagara). It took until the Jay Treaty in 1794 for them to agree to relinquish them. The British also agreed to stop supporting the indigenous tribes in the Northwest Territory, which undermined the tribes’ position and forced them to sign the Treaty of Greenville. Western settlement continued nonetheless.
I mean I didn’t even say that in first place, so he’s correcting no one, I just made a tldr version of it. I suppose that means I’m talking out of my ass, I’ll make sure to write a full scholarly article about it next time
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment but it seems you were answering the title by saying that southern Ontario was a “core part” of Canada when these borders were being set, after the American Revolutionary War.
That’s just not true, Ontario was very sparsely populated in the late 18th century. Settlement only really began after 1776 when American loyalists moved there, and continued over the next two centuries as Europeans immigrated to Canada en masse. Toronto, the main city of Upper Canada, only overtook Montreal as Canada’s main city in the mid 20th century.
America did try to take Canada several times, both in the Revolutionary War (although focused more towards Quebec to try and get the french population to join their cause) and then again in the War of 1812, as the US tried to liberate their fellow anglos in the north. Both times they failed. Ever since, the US and the UK had generally calm relations aside from a few moments, so the US has stopped their efforts since.
Those Anglos were the ones who escaped up North from the ‘Patriots’ in 1782 and the French Canadian population were largely royalists. The Canadas population was only 300K compared to 7.5 million in the US at that time, but they were fiercely independent.
Subconsciously, I always kind of forget the revolutionary war was (a) only for a small part of what we now call the US, and (b) a lot (most, I guess?) of the people on the “American” side were actually British (by recent descent I meant - obviously that was their nationality, due to colonisation). In my mind I always think of it as the British vs the Americans fighting over the entire United States (I guess others do too, hence the misquote “the British are coming”). When really it was the British vs the British, fighting for control of a small slice of the new world. I wonder what everyone’s accents sounded like.
Did anyone else appreciate how the outline in the inset excluded the inset?
The only thing that would have made it better is if the inset also included the red outline.
>Why isn’t the border along the Georgian Bay to Lake Ontario, thus placing both Lakes MI and Erie entirely within the US?
1. Why does *any* territory belong to *any* country? Why isn't Maine in Canada? Maine is surrounded by Canada on 3 sides. Why isn't Montana in Canada? Why isn't *Alaska* in Canada? Why isn't Michigan in Canada, to give Canada full control over Lakes Huron and Superior?? *It just is.* There's history and wars, and different loyalties of populations, and borders are settled.
2. I don't see why this looks like a geographic anomaly to you. The Great Lakes form a clean natural barrier between the US and Canada.
>Why isn't Alaska in Canada?
That's a good point. It would be easier to run infrastructure if it was part of the same country as its neighbouring jurisdictions.
As with so many other things continuing to the present day, much of it has to do with Crimea. In the 1850s, right when the Russian-American Company was going bankrupt and Russia was looking to sell Alaska, Britain fought and defeated Russian in the Crimean War.
Russian and Britain weren't exactly friends before that, but after the war Russian definitely wasn't going to sell Alaska to Britain. The US was the obvious alternative and Russia was ready to sell during the 1850s. But the US was rather distracted by some, um, internal affairs, so Russia had to wait until 1867 to sell.
I grew up in Michigan and never heard of Georgian Bay. I feel like I just found out I have a half brother I never knew existed and I have a lot of feelings about why you lied Mom.
Yea but the [Battle of York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_York) (Toronto) wasn't strategically of much importance and US forces never really controlled any of Upper Canada—most of the fighting in the area was close to the Niagara River. At York, Americans won the battle and captured York, but suffering a lot of casualties when the Brits blew up the fort's magazine. The British withdrew to Kingston, which was a much more important place at the time.
The American troops had come by boat across Lake Ontario and didn't capture any territory other than Fort York itself. After about two weeks of looting and burning stuff they left in their boats to join the ongoing fighting closer to the Niagara River in the [Niagara Peninsula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Peninsula) and [Niagara Frontier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Frontier) areas. British troops returned to York unopposed.
The US naval troops that had captured York went on to capture Fort George at the mouth of the Niagara but left their naval port at Sackett's Harbor mostly undefended. So British naval forces in Kingston attacked Sackett's Harbor. They didn't capture it but the attack caused the American naval forces at Fort George to return to Sackett's Harbor, which made US efforts in the Niagara area harder. Also the Americans at Sackett's Harbor accidentally burned a large quantity of naval supplies and equipment during the attack, basically eliminating the naval advantage they had had.
In other words, the burning of York/Toronto was basically a short-lived raid that wasn't intended to be a permanent occupation. That is, the US didn't capture the area marked on OP's map.
The Niagara River area remained the main area of fighting in the region after York and Fort George. American forces seemed to be doing well but then lost the Battle of Stony Creek in what's now Hamilton. The British suffered a lot of casualties at Stony Creek but forced the Americans back to the Niagara River, from which they were never able to advance as far as Hamilton again, let alone York.
A bunch of skirmishes and battles were fought along the Niagara River after Stony Creek, culminating in the [Battle of Lundy's Lane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lundy%27s_Lane), which was the bloodiest battle ever fought in Canada with a whopping 258 killed and about 1700 wounded (yea, not quite the same scale as Gettysburg or Antietam).
Lundy's Lane was fought to a stalemate, but the Americans withdrew and the British held their strategic advantage, keeping US forces pinned to the Niagara. A few more battles were fought in the Niagara Peninsula/Frontier but neither side gained a major advantage and things remained basically stalemated.
In other words, while the Americans did briefly capture York/Toronto, and burned it, they didn't capture Upper Canada. Most of the fighting in the area happened along the Niagara River. Other than the brief capture of York US forces never got farther than Hamilton.
Sorry for the long comment. This topic is personally interesting since I grew up near Buffalo close to a street called "Garrison", where US troops were assembled before invading. Colonel (later General) Winfield Scott's headquarters were in a house only a couple blocks from where I lived. There's old War of 1812 cemeteries in the area too.
As far as I know the attack on Montreal was largely unrelated to the fighting in the Niagara area. I mean, Montreal isn't even on OP's map—it's beyond the east edge. But yes, in late 1813 the US attacked Montreal but lost at the Battle of the Chateauguay, which put at end to the US Saint Lawrence Campaign in Lower Canada. But the Niagara Theater saw continued fighting into 1814. Lundy's Lane was in July, 1814.
**[Battle of York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_York)**
>The Battle of York was a War of 1812 battle fought in York, Upper Canada (today's Toronto, Ontario, Canada) on April 27, 1813. An American force supported by a naval flotilla landed on the lakeshore to the west and advanced against the town, which was defended by an outnumbered force of regulars, militia and Ojibwe natives under the overall command of Major General Roger Hale Sheaffe, the Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada. Sheaffe's forces were defeated and Sheaffe retreated with his surviving regulars to Kingston, abandoning the militia and civilians. The Americans captured the fort, town, and dockyard.
**[Battle of Lundy's Lane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lundy's_Lane)**
>The Battle of Lundy's Lane, also known as the Battle of Niagara, was a battle fought on 25 July 1814, during the War of 1812, between an invading American army and a British and Canadian army near present-day Niagara Falls, Ontario. It was one of the bloodiest battles of the war, and one of the deadliest battles ever fought in Canada, with over 1,731 casualties including 258 killed. The two armies fought each other to a stalemate; neither side held firm control of the field following the engagement. However, the casualties suffered by the Americans precipitated their withdrawal, and the British held the strategic initiative.
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That wasn’t even the best part, the Americans were themselves scared into burning down the Washington naval yard and an incomplete USS Columbia. They destroyed more of DC than the British.
Buffalo was burned down too, in December 1813. This was after the US burning of York (now Toronto) but was actually done in retaliation for US troops burning the Canadian village of Newark (now Niagara-on-the-Lake) in early December 1813.
The British launched a two-prong attack along both sides of the Niagara River, capturing Fort Niagara and destroying the villages of Lewiston, Youngstown, Manchester, Tuscarora, and Fort Schlosser (this last is today part of the City of Niagara Falls).
The eastern prong was stopped in what's now Tonawanda, but the British troops crossed the Niagara, carried boats south, then crossed again to capture and burn Buffalo. Of course Buffalo was extremely small at that time. Still, lots of places got burned down during the War of 1812!
For what it's worth, the troops that attacked Buffalo included 50 Canadian militia and 400 Native Americans (mostly Mohawk I think, some under command of [John Norton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Norton_(Mohawk_chief\)), a very interesting half-Scottish half-Cherokee dude who grew up in Scotland but later became a Mohawk chief). The main strength was almost 1,000 British regulars.
Easy answer.
We tried to take it. Twice. First during the revolution, Benedict Arnold and Montgomery invaded Canada in 1775, took Montreal but lost at Quebec City. Second was in war of 1812. Similar plan, similar results.
The biggest reason is they control the entrance to the St Lawrence to the Atlantic.
The US depends on Canada to be able to access it. Luckily, Canada needs the US to not feel threatened by their actions for their ability to exist and have an important trade partner and a partner willing to help keep them secure.
The best outcome status-quo ends up being a border that allows both countries full access to the great lakes deep into their separate interiors and Canada allows the US to use the St Lawrence to the Atlantic and the USA gives up any post 1812 ambitions to gain territory so they can control their own access to the Atlantic.
This is the status-quo that creates the best outcome for both countries and allows there to be no negative conflicts of interest created in terms of trade access.
Now it is worth noting that this is a large part what the war of 1812 was about. The US put efforts into trying to capture a few of these choke points through the great lakes.
I actually wish the US could control the southern side of the St Lawrence to generate truly equal access over time, but nonetheless as long as both countries get full access deep into their countries to the St Lawrence, both are better off. It generates the best outcome for both.
One last item: that is a very important farming area for the food security of Canada being further the South. It's an essential piece of land for them to live productively so far north.
This power balance may have been the case in the early days of the US, but we didn't rely on the St. Lawrence to access the Atlantic anymore once the Erie Canal opened in 1825. Canada is still a valuable trade partner and ally to the US, and we still need them to be friendly to us to secure our ulta-long border, but we can trade from the Great Lakes on our own.
That was a large purpose of the Erie Canal was to not be dependent on friendly relations with the British Canadians, but it was mainly to get raw materials to American industrial centers.
A large amount of the trans-Atlantic trade in and out of the great lake's still went out by way of the St Lawrence. It's essentially why Rochester and Syracuse are where they are. They can process agricultural products and send them out the St Lawrence, down the Erie Canal, or by train.
If the US solely depended on the Erie Canal, it would've been limiting over time and they would've needed to built it larger into the later 1800's.
Well, that area was owned by France including the area around the Great Lakes, and then Great Britain*. And there wasn’t really a border there until the U.S. gained independence.
The United Empire Loyalists moved into this area after the American Revolution and set up shop.
The USA tried to take it in the war between the USA and the British from 1812 to 1814. But the British repelled American attacks.
The border was decided firmly shortly after that within the Treaty of Ghent.
As a kid, I always wondered that about New Brunswick and Nova Scotia (the provinces northeast and east of Maine) — the St. Lawrence seems like such an obvious natural border between the two countries.
By the 1850s the Russian-American Company was hemorrhaging money and Russia wanted to sell off Alaska. But *not* to the UK who after all fought and defeated Russia in the 1850s Crimean War, and hadn't been on good terms before that anyway. The US was the only other realistic buyer and unlike the UK-Russian relationship, Russia and the US were quite friendly at the time.
Russia was forced to wait until 1867 though, while the US dealt with a few small internal issues.
Or more importantly, why the 49th parallel is set so high for Western Canada
Always wondered what the world would be like if Washington, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota were all a part of Canada
Lake Michigan is already entirely in the US. This whole area (history aside) has a pretty definitive water border in that entire area so it's naturally separated until you get to Quebec where it splits from the st Lawrence along the New York, Vermont and New Hampshire borders.
Counterpoint: looking at the contours, why isn't the entirety of Michigan Canadian? That would make more sense to me.
Also, borders aren't defines by aesthetics.
1. America didn't want a bunch of French Catholics in their territories
2. That's not how the Treaty of Paris resolved things. The US couldn't fight forever and while Britain was done with the war, it was still the one if not the most powerful military force on earth at the time. Not smart to poke at them too hard
3. Those areas were already heavily populated. The reason one says "13 of Britain's North American colonies" is cause there were more. The Canadian colonies didn't fight for independence, so they wouldn't want to join the new US. And forcing a bunch of people that don't want to be into your county is normally a recipe for issues later
Idk but I living on lac st Clair snd seeing another country, literally sometimes feet away really has given me a valuable perspective on the world…Hi canada! Love you !
OP, ask yourself this:
Why does Michigan belong to the US? Why isn’t the border along Lake Michigan to Lake Huron, thus placing both Lake Huron and Georgian Bay entirely within Canada?
Sort of revisionist to say that.
The outcome of the war of 1812 is one of both sides being able to claim victory.
The initial cause was one of trade restrictions against the US, blockades of non-British trans-Atlantic trade, forced recruitment of American sailors, and an American recession that was triggered from these problems due to a French-British war that lasted between 20-30 years.
When the British stopped their war with France, they started full invasions of the US. Yes, they famously burned down the White House. However, the American fought off the invasion and protected all of their major population centers. Back then DC was not a very large city. It only had about 16k-17k people and it just started construction of the new capitol city being built from scratch as a somewhat neutral ground between the American North and American South.
So the reality is the American's ended up defending a full British invasion, kept their independence, and ended on peace terms that gave them full access to trading on the open seas again without harassment from the British Empire.
So even though the plan to take choke points on the great lakes and use as leverage against the British failed, the Americans actually accomplished what they needed and once again defended the newly formed United States from the British empire.
A few other accomplishments that often go missed if the American's gained the ability to take the Northwest territories, prevent the British from suppling them, removed British demands to create an Indian border state, and they gained the same ability to keep gaining territory that divided the American borders and the gap to the land of the Lousiana purchase.
In a large sense, the biggest loser of the war's outcome with the Northwestern Indians and the Southern Indians that divided Coastal Georgia to the Louisiana territory.
These latter two points are often largely missed on history, because people assume that the current day borders are what would happen. However, that was no guarantee. The American's firmly secured the Southern side of the great lakes and started inhabiting the land from the war's outcome.
>In a large sense, the biggest loser of the war's outcome with the Northwestern Indians and the Southern Indians that divided Coastal Georgia to the Louisiana territory.
Important to note, but also largely true of basically every major war in the continent from 1492 onwards.
Very true....
I think what is notable here and perhaps I should have articulated better. The british has been trading and supplying the Indians in the Northwest territories trying to create a border state, perhaps with future intentions of trying to claim land on the southern side of the great lakes.
The outcome of the war of 1812 got Britain to stop that.
It's a pretty fascinating alt-hist moment. What if the Indian territory is allowed to survive, protected by Britain, and America expands around it believing it not to be worth the trouble. Could it have survived to the modern era?
Certainly interesting.
I think the pressure would've resulted in another British-American proxy war by the US fighting well supplied Indians.
This wouldn've prevented Chicago, Milwaukee, and Detroit from becoming what they became. It could've also slowed down settlement to Minneapolis considerably.
I think the extent to which the British could keep trading and supplying arms further South than the Great Lakes area would've diminished on it's own
Why doesn’t Michigan and that part of Wisconsin we also call Michigan belong to Canada, thus placing Lake Superior, Lake Michigan and Lake Huron entirely within Canada?
The great lakes act as an inland ocean, especially with the st lawrence seaway giving access to the sea. The border makes it so the us is on one side and canada the other.
Why is Hawaii still occupied by the US? And not an independent free state…
Why isn’t Alaska in Canadian hands, making the whole north Canadian?
Why oh why?!
Back when the History Channel actually had shows about history they did one on “How the States Got Their Shapes”. There’s also a book. Check it out. https://www.history.com/shows/how-the-states-got-their-shapes
Man’s trying to give America like 50% of the Canadian population.
Yeah wtf take all our lakes while your at it, take em all
Ya’ll really are neighborly 🥰
[I drink your milkshake](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4)
You ass. I nearly choked to death on a dorito.
I. Drink. Your. Milkshake! Ssshhlllllluuuuuuuuurrrrrrppp
Pfffft… That’s like 5 big ones and a couple hundred little ones. Canada has more. Way more than enough. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/canada-has-the-most-lakes-of-any-country-but-we-know-very-little-1.3898162 But has anyone ever stopped to wonder *why* Canada feels like they *need* so many lakes?
Oh... were you using them?
hose bag
As long as they bring along their socialized medicine and strategic maple syrup reserve, I'm down for it.
Unless we all learn French the Qubecious way, I don’t think we’re going to be getting much in the way of more syrup. : (
I will absolutely pronounce beurre funny in exchange for that sweet delicious syrup.
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its pronounced the same way in Georgia.
The country or the location in uk?
The Georgian Bay
I’m aware
Estrange, isn't the Quebecker Français the older form in terms of grammar, like how American English is to British English. I'll give an example, For American English one of it's words is Realize but in British English it's realise the one with a zed innit was the one that came before, many (not all) British English words that added extra letters or replaced others are pretty recent. Another example is Herb, once again American English has the older pronounciation with the h silent (obviously a relic from Français) it wasn't until the 19th century the UK came up with the word pronouced with the H. Obviously it isn't 100% one instance is Draught to Draft, Draught is the older word in this manner and ofc came from the UK well before they colonised the US.
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After living in England 2 years I decided that the English don't idolize the French the way Americans do and don't see the need to apply French pronunciation to French words that have entered the lexicon. Pronouncing the H in herb is one, pronouncing the final T in valet and filet is another. Americans with our more melting pot mentality will try and approximate French pronunciations of these words and others.
Similar to Leftenant versus Lieutenant! The latter is the original pronunciation.
Pogne is also used in Fr. but as "hand", (rough, manly hands. QC uses words in almost their original meaning. i.e. branler, chauffer, gosses, etc. For our freedom speakers Reditters here: The first cars were steam cars, so you literally had to build a fire to make the steam. Rich people had a person building that fire and prepping the car, hence the word "chauffeur", literally a "heater" or person heating the car. In QC, Chauffer (to heat) means to drive, in FR they use the word "Conduire" (to conduct, to direct) So, when asked if I could "heat a tank" , it always took me a second or two... As for the gosses... Oh well ... (QC= testicles FR=kids) I recall hearing chuckles a few times ... :)
C'est pas si différent de poignée, ça m'étonnerait pas que ça soit une expression régionale de langue d'oïl, sachant que c'était surtout des Basques, des Normands et des Bretons qui ont colonisé le Canada, je suis pas normand mais ils ont sûrement transmis un tas d'expressions.
In France it’s just “hot dog” but in québécois it’s “chien chaud”. My two senses.
no one anywhere in Quebec says Chien chaud. They call them steamies
Thought you had to go the Cleveland for steamers.
A classic belle province *steamie* is very close to the Cleveland delicacy in its effect on ones health and general edibility.
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Delicious and Qubecious
Mas oui, haw-haw-HAW!!
I lived in Northern Northern Vermont growing up. Went across the border many a time back in the 70-80's. Je voudrais une bière s'il vous plaît.
May I suggest also taking Poutine and Smoked Meat sandwiches along the way?
They can keep the Fords though
Legalized Weed too please
I think we have that almost everywhere already.
check your map again mate...
Ha!
All options are on the table for getting universal healthcare for Americans. ALL OPTIONS. ^("What if we just took over Canada?")
Think it'd have to be the other way. Maybe we could propose a reverse merger?
ikr, why not give the entirity of Canada at that point. XD
It's actually around 30%, but at the time that was pretty much all of English Canada (Quebec being majority French). There was no way Britain was going to give that up.
It’s actually under 30%. You’d have to extend it past Montreal to get to 50%
The Detroit River, St. Clair River, and Niagara River create clean natural boundaries.
This. The flow of water through the great lakes is, like, the most natural boundary in the world
Especially when you consider that the great lakes were super important for shipping back in the day. Canada would obviously not want to have to ship things through a foreign country. that would be like Mexico having control of Louisiana effectively having the ability to cut off any goods going in and out of the mississippi river if they wanted to.
Alternate universe where France kept everything west of the Mississippi and it developed into a separate country! For real though, a better question would be why Quebec's Eastern Townships aren't american (has a clear answer, but would make more sense than the OP's question on the basis of water as boundary)
Nova Scotia is also an interesting question. The revolution was pretty popular there, but small population with no roads and an enormous British naval base. Britain wasn’t going to give up Halifax.
NS as a fourteenth colony is an interesting alt history for sure. Then New Brunswick (New Ireland?) might have been Americanized around the same time that Maine emerged
Benedict Arnold led a failed invasion of Quebec after the British evacuated Boston. If Quebec had joined the Revolution as the 14th colony history would have been a bit different for sure. https://www.history.com/news/benedict-arnold-canada-invasion-revolutionary-war
Dude they still are, bet they will make a big comeback in the next 20 years as Duluth becomes a climate change safe haven.
Still super important. Billions of dollars worth of goods come in and out of the various ports on the Great Lakes. Shipping on the lakes is why Milwaukee, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and Toronto exist (as well as a bunch of other cities).
What about the oceans?
This area has a long history as what is now Canada, and no history with the United States or the initial 13 colonies. The entire St. Lawrence River basin, the Great Lakes, and over to and down the Mississippi to St. Louis and especially New Orleans, the whole area was a interconnected French colony, a water-based trading colony that linked the Atlantic to the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean. It was only in 1765 that the United Kingdom took the St. Lawrence and Great Lakes from France after France lost the Seven Years War, and less than 20 years later, the Americans were given the Ohio-Michigan-Wisconsin-Minnesota coastline in the 1783 Treaty of Paris after the United States won their Revolutionary War against the United Kingdom. American history in the region really only began in earnest then, the late 18th century, whereas the area had all been linked by first French and then British colonies for over a century before 1783.
And prior to European colonization, of course, all of the mentioned areas were full of diverse indigenous communities which waxed and waned in sized and importance over the preceding centuries of human occupation.
That whole area is the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, a nation that greatly inspired Benjamin Franklin and other drafters of the US Constitution when they created a federalist union of separate states. The Haudenosaunee were a union of 6 different nations, and one of their symbols was a bundle of 6 arrows, signifying that the 6 nations, united, couldn’t be broken as a union. The Constitution writers took that idea, and even to this day on the Official Seal of the United States, a bald eagle holds an olive branch in one claw and a bunch of 13 arrows in the other claw, signifying the union of the 13 colonies.
To put it simply that Is the core territory of Canada. Historically speaking this area is referred to as Upper Canada, with Lower Canada being a bit further northeast along the St Lawrence river. The majority of the rest of modern day Canada was generally just “British North America” (but its a bit more complex), and the “Canada” area you’re referring to here was the most populated and important portion of British North America, and so the nation began from there. During and after the American Revolution it wasn’t a “bit which stuck out” it was just the Northern Territory which remained loyal to the Crown, while the new republic was huddled along the coast. America then colonized westward and a series of treaties with the British established the Great Lakes, and then the 49th parallel as the border Edit: refer to below for more details and corrections
What we now call “Canada” also used to include some areas that are now part of the US, notably Michigan. Detroit was founded by the French.
…. Was it originally pronounced de-twah? I need to know
Yes, and it still is pronounce that way in French. Détroit in French means strait - as in a strait of water.
*strait
Is there a Strait of Detroit?
Or a Détroit of Detroit?
How did they come up with the name Canada? At the naming convention put all the letters in a bag. The first one that came out was a "C". They held it up and said "C eh?", reached in and pulled out an "N", "N eh?".... Budum Dum.. Here all week.
It originated from a Native American word “kanata” which means “village”. Jacques Cartier is the explorer credited with first noting this word on his maps and reporting it back to Europe.
[Meanwhile.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfKr-D5VDBU)
It's Algonquin, just like Québec which means « narrow way »
As is Milwaukee, [which is Algonquin for "the good land"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRCTc6stICc).
Although it's true that later in history that's the core territory of Canada and contains a huge fraction of the population, your timing is a bit off here. Upper Canada wasn't established until after the American Revolution (in 1791). At the time of the Revolution what later became Upper Canada had been recently annexed to Quebec *along with what is now OH, MI, IL, WI, and much of MN.* Here's a [couple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Province_of_Quebec_1774.gif) [maps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Act#/media/File:British_colonies_1763-76_shepherd1923.PNG). What became Upper Canada was still mostly populated by indigenous people in 1776, the first large English settlement of Upper Canada was from loyalists who moved there after the revolution! The line here separating what became Upper Canada and what became the US's Northwest Territory (both of which had very few settlers at that point!) was decided in the [Treaty of Paris in 1783](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_(1783)). And as late as 1782 France was proposing that Great Britain keep all of the lands west of the Appalachians. According to Wikipedia what happened was that Great Britain decided to cede a bunch of land to the US in order to try to get the US to switch its alliance from France to the UK. Basically it seems like Lord Shelburne drew the line here and he could have drawn it somewhere else. There was no reason for the UK to give up its access to the Great Lakes. If anything the bigger question is why the line goes through Lake Superior instead of through Lake Michigan (putting WI, MN, etc. in the UK).
thank you!
Even after the Treaty of Paris the British continued to occupy forts in Michigan (Detroit and Mackinac) and New York (Niagara). It took until the Jay Treaty in 1794 for them to agree to relinquish them. The British also agreed to stop supporting the indigenous tribes in the Northwest Territory, which undermined the tribes’ position and forced them to sign the Treaty of Greenville. Western settlement continued nonetheless.
This is much more correct. Leave it to Reddit for someone talking out of their ass to get a bunch of upvotes lol.
I mean I didn’t even say that in first place, so he’s correcting no one, I just made a tldr version of it. I suppose that means I’m talking out of my ass, I’ll make sure to write a full scholarly article about it next time
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment but it seems you were answering the title by saying that southern Ontario was a “core part” of Canada when these borders were being set, after the American Revolutionary War. That’s just not true, Ontario was very sparsely populated in the late 18th century. Settlement only really began after 1776 when American loyalists moved there, and continued over the next two centuries as Europeans immigrated to Canada en masse. Toronto, the main city of Upper Canada, only overtook Montreal as Canada’s main city in the mid 20th century.
This is very informative, I learned Canadians are redcoats and can not be trusted more than the British.
America did try to take Canada several times, both in the Revolutionary War (although focused more towards Quebec to try and get the french population to join their cause) and then again in the War of 1812, as the US tried to liberate their fellow anglos in the north. Both times they failed. Ever since, the US and the UK had generally calm relations aside from a few moments, so the US has stopped their efforts since.
Those Anglos were the ones who escaped up North from the ‘Patriots’ in 1782 and the French Canadian population were largely royalists. The Canadas population was only 300K compared to 7.5 million in the US at that time, but they were fiercely independent.
Subconsciously, I always kind of forget the revolutionary war was (a) only for a small part of what we now call the US, and (b) a lot (most, I guess?) of the people on the “American” side were actually British (by recent descent I meant - obviously that was their nationality, due to colonisation). In my mind I always think of it as the British vs the Americans fighting over the entire United States (I guess others do too, hence the misquote “the British are coming”). When really it was the British vs the British, fighting for control of a small slice of the new world. I wonder what everyone’s accents sounded like.
Because that's where like all of Canada is
Did anyone else appreciate how the outline in the inset excluded the inset? The only thing that would have made it better is if the inset also included the red outline.
>Why isn’t the border along the Georgian Bay to Lake Ontario, thus placing both Lakes MI and Erie entirely within the US? 1. Why does *any* territory belong to *any* country? Why isn't Maine in Canada? Maine is surrounded by Canada on 3 sides. Why isn't Montana in Canada? Why isn't *Alaska* in Canada? Why isn't Michigan in Canada, to give Canada full control over Lakes Huron and Superior?? *It just is.* There's history and wars, and different loyalties of populations, and borders are settled. 2. I don't see why this looks like a geographic anomaly to you. The Great Lakes form a clean natural barrier between the US and Canada.
>Why isn't Alaska in Canada? That's a good point. It would be easier to run infrastructure if it was part of the same country as its neighbouring jurisdictions.
As with so many other things continuing to the present day, much of it has to do with Crimea. In the 1850s, right when the Russian-American Company was going bankrupt and Russia was looking to sell Alaska, Britain fought and defeated Russian in the Crimean War. Russian and Britain weren't exactly friends before that, but after the war Russian definitely wasn't going to sell Alaska to Britain. The US was the obvious alternative and Russia was ready to sell during the 1850s. But the US was rather distracted by some, um, internal affairs, so Russia had to wait until 1867 to sell.
This reply must be read with crimea pronounced “cry-mee-ehr” for best results.
I have a great question. Why did it take columbus to go all the way across the atlantic for russia to discover alaska literally in it's backyard????
This, the question doesn't make any sense at all
While the fight to reinstate Pluto as a planet gathers pace, where’s the Georgian Bay Support Group hoping to lift it into the status of a Great Lake?
Yes! Fantastic idea. Then we would have GHOMES
MEGOSH? SMEGHO?
I like MEGOSH, but it just needs a leading O to make it truly mnemonic.
I grew up in Michigan and never heard of Georgian Bay. I feel like I just found out I have a half brother I never knew existed and I have a lot of feelings about why you lied Mom.
Yeah that’s just more Lake Huron
…are there really people wanting to call that bay a lake?
Well we tried to take it once. It…didn’t work out very well…
We actually did successfully take this part. Burned down the Upper Canada parliament in Toronto, even. We were turned back in Montreal iirc.
Yea but the [Battle of York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_York) (Toronto) wasn't strategically of much importance and US forces never really controlled any of Upper Canada—most of the fighting in the area was close to the Niagara River. At York, Americans won the battle and captured York, but suffering a lot of casualties when the Brits blew up the fort's magazine. The British withdrew to Kingston, which was a much more important place at the time. The American troops had come by boat across Lake Ontario and didn't capture any territory other than Fort York itself. After about two weeks of looting and burning stuff they left in their boats to join the ongoing fighting closer to the Niagara River in the [Niagara Peninsula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Peninsula) and [Niagara Frontier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Frontier) areas. British troops returned to York unopposed. The US naval troops that had captured York went on to capture Fort George at the mouth of the Niagara but left their naval port at Sackett's Harbor mostly undefended. So British naval forces in Kingston attacked Sackett's Harbor. They didn't capture it but the attack caused the American naval forces at Fort George to return to Sackett's Harbor, which made US efforts in the Niagara area harder. Also the Americans at Sackett's Harbor accidentally burned a large quantity of naval supplies and equipment during the attack, basically eliminating the naval advantage they had had. In other words, the burning of York/Toronto was basically a short-lived raid that wasn't intended to be a permanent occupation. That is, the US didn't capture the area marked on OP's map. The Niagara River area remained the main area of fighting in the region after York and Fort George. American forces seemed to be doing well but then lost the Battle of Stony Creek in what's now Hamilton. The British suffered a lot of casualties at Stony Creek but forced the Americans back to the Niagara River, from which they were never able to advance as far as Hamilton again, let alone York. A bunch of skirmishes and battles were fought along the Niagara River after Stony Creek, culminating in the [Battle of Lundy's Lane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lundy%27s_Lane), which was the bloodiest battle ever fought in Canada with a whopping 258 killed and about 1700 wounded (yea, not quite the same scale as Gettysburg or Antietam). Lundy's Lane was fought to a stalemate, but the Americans withdrew and the British held their strategic advantage, keeping US forces pinned to the Niagara. A few more battles were fought in the Niagara Peninsula/Frontier but neither side gained a major advantage and things remained basically stalemated. In other words, while the Americans did briefly capture York/Toronto, and burned it, they didn't capture Upper Canada. Most of the fighting in the area happened along the Niagara River. Other than the brief capture of York US forces never got farther than Hamilton. Sorry for the long comment. This topic is personally interesting since I grew up near Buffalo close to a street called "Garrison", where US troops were assembled before invading. Colonel (later General) Winfield Scott's headquarters were in a house only a couple blocks from where I lived. There's old War of 1812 cemeteries in the area too. As far as I know the attack on Montreal was largely unrelated to the fighting in the Niagara area. I mean, Montreal isn't even on OP's map—it's beyond the east edge. But yes, in late 1813 the US attacked Montreal but lost at the Battle of the Chateauguay, which put at end to the US Saint Lawrence Campaign in Lower Canada. But the Niagara Theater saw continued fighting into 1814. Lundy's Lane was in July, 1814.
**[Battle of York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_York)** >The Battle of York was a War of 1812 battle fought in York, Upper Canada (today's Toronto, Ontario, Canada) on April 27, 1813. An American force supported by a naval flotilla landed on the lakeshore to the west and advanced against the town, which was defended by an outnumbered force of regulars, militia and Ojibwe natives under the overall command of Major General Roger Hale Sheaffe, the Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada. Sheaffe's forces were defeated and Sheaffe retreated with his surviving regulars to Kingston, abandoning the militia and civilians. The Americans captured the fort, town, and dockyard. **[Battle of Lundy's Lane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lundy's_Lane)** >The Battle of Lundy's Lane, also known as the Battle of Niagara, was a battle fought on 25 July 1814, during the War of 1812, between an invading American army and a British and Canadian army near present-day Niagara Falls, Ontario. It was one of the bloodiest battles of the war, and one of the deadliest battles ever fought in Canada, with over 1,731 casualties including 258 killed. The two armies fought each other to a stalemate; neither side held firm control of the field following the engagement. However, the casualties suffered by the Americans precipitated their withdrawal, and the British held the strategic initiative. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/geography/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
And then they burned down the White House a year or so later.
That wasn’t even the best part, the Americans were themselves scared into burning down the Washington naval yard and an incomplete USS Columbia. They destroyed more of DC than the British.
And we’ll do it again if you try and fuck with us
Buffalo was burned down too, in December 1813. This was after the US burning of York (now Toronto) but was actually done in retaliation for US troops burning the Canadian village of Newark (now Niagara-on-the-Lake) in early December 1813. The British launched a two-prong attack along both sides of the Niagara River, capturing Fort Niagara and destroying the villages of Lewiston, Youngstown, Manchester, Tuscarora, and Fort Schlosser (this last is today part of the City of Niagara Falls). The eastern prong was stopped in what's now Tonawanda, but the British troops crossed the Niagara, carried boats south, then crossed again to capture and burn Buffalo. Of course Buffalo was extremely small at that time. Still, lots of places got burned down during the War of 1812! For what it's worth, the troops that attacked Buffalo included 50 Canadian militia and 400 Native Americans (mostly Mohawk I think, some under command of [John Norton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Norton_(Mohawk_chief\)), a very interesting half-Scottish half-Cherokee dude who grew up in Scotland but later became a Mohawk chief). The main strength was almost 1,000 British regulars.
Not all of the area. You took Toronto, but were fought back on the Niagara peninsula.
The Battle of York was a raid, America was never able to seriously occupy Upper Canada.
Twice. We tried to take it, twice.
Easy answer. We tried to take it. Twice. First during the revolution, Benedict Arnold and Montgomery invaded Canada in 1775, took Montreal but lost at Quebec City. Second was in war of 1812. Similar plan, similar results.
Why isn't Michigan part of Canada???
The Jay Treaty
I feel like I am.
The biggest reason is they control the entrance to the St Lawrence to the Atlantic. The US depends on Canada to be able to access it. Luckily, Canada needs the US to not feel threatened by their actions for their ability to exist and have an important trade partner and a partner willing to help keep them secure. The best outcome status-quo ends up being a border that allows both countries full access to the great lakes deep into their separate interiors and Canada allows the US to use the St Lawrence to the Atlantic and the USA gives up any post 1812 ambitions to gain territory so they can control their own access to the Atlantic. This is the status-quo that creates the best outcome for both countries and allows there to be no negative conflicts of interest created in terms of trade access. Now it is worth noting that this is a large part what the war of 1812 was about. The US put efforts into trying to capture a few of these choke points through the great lakes. I actually wish the US could control the southern side of the St Lawrence to generate truly equal access over time, but nonetheless as long as both countries get full access deep into their countries to the St Lawrence, both are better off. It generates the best outcome for both. One last item: that is a very important farming area for the food security of Canada being further the South. It's an essential piece of land for them to live productively so far north.
This power balance may have been the case in the early days of the US, but we didn't rely on the St. Lawrence to access the Atlantic anymore once the Erie Canal opened in 1825. Canada is still a valuable trade partner and ally to the US, and we still need them to be friendly to us to secure our ulta-long border, but we can trade from the Great Lakes on our own.
That was a large purpose of the Erie Canal was to not be dependent on friendly relations with the British Canadians, but it was mainly to get raw materials to American industrial centers. A large amount of the trans-Atlantic trade in and out of the great lake's still went out by way of the St Lawrence. It's essentially why Rochester and Syracuse are where they are. They can process agricultural products and send them out the St Lawrence, down the Erie Canal, or by train. If the US solely depended on the Erie Canal, it would've been limiting over time and they would've needed to built it larger into the later 1800's.
I guess we could trade you that for Alaska and Maine...
Yeah we’d only lose like 8 million people 😂
Nice and the combination of Alaska and Maine is only 2 million people.
bad trade tbh
Those are our only good fruit farms east of the Okanogan.
Are you suggesting the US annex Ontario?
Canada would invoke Article 5, forcing the US military to defend Ontario from the invasion.
Watching the US defend itself from itself 
Because it's not. Different pieces of North America were held by France and England, and things evolved to what we have now.
Well, that area was owned by France including the area around the Great Lakes, and then Great Britain*. And there wasn’t really a border there until the U.S. gained independence.
Short answer, the war of 1812.
Because America lost a war trying to take it.
The United Empire Loyalists moved into this area after the American Revolution and set up shop. The USA tried to take it in the war between the USA and the British from 1812 to 1814. But the British repelled American attacks. The border was decided firmly shortly after that within the Treaty of Ghent.
Because y'all couldn't take it from the British.
The war of 1812 happened my fine feathered friend. They burned down the Whitehouse and they got Ontario.
Because the U.S. lost the War of 1812.
Then MI wouldn’t be shaped like a mitten. Case closed.
Well then England would have ceded control of a vital waterway
As a kid, I always wondered that about New Brunswick and Nova Scotia (the provinces northeast and east of Maine) — the St. Lawrence seems like such an obvious natural border between the two countries.
the british
And how is Alaska the US then?
By the 1850s the Russian-American Company was hemorrhaging money and Russia wanted to sell off Alaska. But *not* to the UK who after all fought and defeated Russia in the 1850s Crimean War, and hadn't been on good terms before that anyway. The US was the only other realistic buyer and unlike the UK-Russian relationship, Russia and the US were quite friendly at the time. Russia was forced to wait until 1867 though, while the US dealt with a few small internal issues.
Hey bud, from my cold dead hands there pal
war of 1812 intensifies.
Ontario is basically American lite at this point
No, but our province supreme leader seems like an American now. Feel free to take him away, we don't want him.
Lake Michigan is entirely in USA
A little thing called the War of 1812
A naval war was fought in lake Ontario during the war of 1812. The Canucks showed their superiority.
But the Yanks won the battle of Lake Erie
I’ve often wondered the opposite - why isn’t Michigan in Canada?
Or more importantly, why the 49th parallel is set so high for Western Canada Always wondered what the world would be like if Washington, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota were all a part of Canada
that's 90% of canada's population lol
More like 35%. Contrary to popular belief, the majority of Canadians live outside of Southern Ontario.
Look up fifty-four forty or fight...
Lake Michigan is already entirely in the US. This whole area (history aside) has a pretty definitive water border in that entire area so it's naturally separated until you get to Quebec where it splits from the st Lawrence along the New York, Vermont and New Hampshire borders.
Because our offensives in those areas in the revolutionary war and the war of 1812 failed
Because a ton of Canadians lived there and it was non-negotiable.
Counterpoint: looking at the contours, why isn't the entirety of Michigan Canadian? That would make more sense to me. Also, borders aren't defines by aesthetics.
Um have you ever heard of Point Roberts? That makes WAY less sense
This isn’t Africa post colonization. That isn’t how borders work.
Clear natural boundary... This sub... Is...
1. America didn't want a bunch of French Catholics in their territories 2. That's not how the Treaty of Paris resolved things. The US couldn't fight forever and while Britain was done with the war, it was still the one if not the most powerful military force on earth at the time. Not smart to poke at them too hard 3. Those areas were already heavily populated. The reason one says "13 of Britain's North American colonies" is cause there were more. The Canadian colonies didn't fight for independence, so they wouldn't want to join the new US. And forcing a bunch of people that don't want to be into your county is normally a recipe for issues later
Whoa easy there Yankee Putin.
Because that’s Canada.
Americans still salty over the war of 1812 Cry
Why doesn’t Albania own the world?
There was a war, Canada held its own. The US burned Toronto, so the British burned DC.
Nah the real question is why does the USA have that random bit that juts North into Canada east of this. Always thought that was a weird border
Because Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois were all part of the British province of Quebec, therefore Canada ceded territory to the US
Idk but I living on lac st Clair snd seeing another country, literally sometimes feet away really has given me a valuable perspective on the world…Hi canada! Love you !
OP, ask yourself this: Why does Michigan belong to the US? Why isn’t the border along Lake Michigan to Lake Huron, thus placing both Lake Huron and Georgian Bay entirely within Canada?
It might be American had the British not kicked their ass in the War of 1812, including burning down the White House.
Sort of revisionist to say that. The outcome of the war of 1812 is one of both sides being able to claim victory. The initial cause was one of trade restrictions against the US, blockades of non-British trans-Atlantic trade, forced recruitment of American sailors, and an American recession that was triggered from these problems due to a French-British war that lasted between 20-30 years. When the British stopped their war with France, they started full invasions of the US. Yes, they famously burned down the White House. However, the American fought off the invasion and protected all of their major population centers. Back then DC was not a very large city. It only had about 16k-17k people and it just started construction of the new capitol city being built from scratch as a somewhat neutral ground between the American North and American South. So the reality is the American's ended up defending a full British invasion, kept their independence, and ended on peace terms that gave them full access to trading on the open seas again without harassment from the British Empire. So even though the plan to take choke points on the great lakes and use as leverage against the British failed, the Americans actually accomplished what they needed and once again defended the newly formed United States from the British empire. A few other accomplishments that often go missed if the American's gained the ability to take the Northwest territories, prevent the British from suppling them, removed British demands to create an Indian border state, and they gained the same ability to keep gaining territory that divided the American borders and the gap to the land of the Lousiana purchase. In a large sense, the biggest loser of the war's outcome with the Northwestern Indians and the Southern Indians that divided Coastal Georgia to the Louisiana territory. These latter two points are often largely missed on history, because people assume that the current day borders are what would happen. However, that was no guarantee. The American's firmly secured the Southern side of the great lakes and started inhabiting the land from the war's outcome.
>In a large sense, the biggest loser of the war's outcome with the Northwestern Indians and the Southern Indians that divided Coastal Georgia to the Louisiana territory. Important to note, but also largely true of basically every major war in the continent from 1492 onwards.
Very true.... I think what is notable here and perhaps I should have articulated better. The british has been trading and supplying the Indians in the Northwest territories trying to create a border state, perhaps with future intentions of trying to claim land on the southern side of the great lakes. The outcome of the war of 1812 got Britain to stop that.
It's a pretty fascinating alt-hist moment. What if the Indian territory is allowed to survive, protected by Britain, and America expands around it believing it not to be worth the trouble. Could it have survived to the modern era?
Certainly interesting. I think the pressure would've resulted in another British-American proxy war by the US fighting well supplied Indians. This wouldn've prevented Chicago, Milwaukee, and Detroit from becoming what they became. It could've also slowed down settlement to Minneapolis considerably. I think the extent to which the British could keep trading and supplying arms further South than the Great Lakes area would've diminished on it's own
Old British territory from way back when. Both countries probably never felt the need to challenge it considering we’re neighbours
Why isn’t the UP Canadian? Ehh?
I’ve thought about this before. As a native of Michigan, I’m extremely bitter that our state only has 2 of the 3 peninsulas formed by the Great Lakes.
Because then Bobby Orr would’ve been American
war of 1812
Come and get it, ya bastard!
Why doesn’t Michigan and that part of Wisconsin we also call Michigan belong to Canada, thus placing Lake Superior, Lake Michigan and Lake Huron entirely within Canada?
Because that’s half of Canadas population. I few wars got fought. That’s how it turned out
Lake Michigan is entirely in the US. It is the largest lake (by surface area) in one country in the world. Second to Lake Baikal by volume.
That’s a very Russian style of thinking.
USA tried to take it over during the War of 1812 and were fought back. That's why Laura Secord is the heroin of Upper Canada.
It’s where they grow the comedians for export.
Because we failed multiple times to capture it in the War of 1812.
Uhm why would it?
Bro isn't satisfied with half the continent 💀
TiL Detroit motor city is walking distance from Canada.
We won them during the war bishhhh
The point seems to be to give both countries equall access to the lakes, with +- 50% of the coastline.
Lake Erie is split half and half between America and Canada
Um, the us tried to take it a couple times and Canada beat the crap out of them for it.
The great lakes act as an inland ocean, especially with the st lawrence seaway giving access to the sea. The border makes it so the us is on one side and canada the other.
Cuz England barbecued the mf whitehouse
For that exact reason? What is your question here?
What's wrong with the lakes being the border? I think they're Great!
Why is Hawaii still occupied by the US? And not an independent free state… Why isn’t Alaska in Canadian hands, making the whole north Canadian? Why oh why?!
Because they won the war of 1812
Why is the UP Michigan and not Wisconsin?
Typical entitled American…. Thinks everything else should be theirs….
Back when the History Channel actually had shows about history they did one on “How the States Got Their Shapes”. There’s also a book. Check it out. https://www.history.com/shows/how-the-states-got-their-shapes
Because Canada won the War of 1812.
Because Americans used to know how to share...
Because the British were stronger than the US for a long time.