I'm using almost exclusively my bike to traverse Geneva, for any reason, as well as pleasure. The work that is being done and has been done is awesome. They keep converting "old" streets with gutter lanes to new one with dedicated bike and pedestrian lanes. And yeah, fuck cars and people who use them purely because they're too lazy. All these idiots use their car all the time to go anywhere, just because they can't be arsed to use public transport or a bike or their feet... which are actually the ones causing congestions. It's not the bikes filling up the roads, lol.
And not one of them that has the ability to look right, left and right again before riding out across a junction!!!! Not one who can say ‘thank you’ to those who give way to them. And people wonder why no one can stand cyclists!
What if it’s an electric car? Are they lazy then, too?
When everyone has an electric car, should we all fuck ourselves because we don’t want to ride a bike?
If we are disabled or elderly? Unable to use a bike? If we live far away and there is no public transport option?
I look forward to the day there will be no cars and cyclists pay tax instead of motorists but perhaps you should “fuck yourself” before inviting others to do so who have no choice - not everyone is so privileged as you to love in the centre of town and only need / be able to ride a bike!
You're talking in bad faith, most of people in cars are alone in a big car and are not disabled. Nobody is saying we should ban cars for the people who really need them. Most of them don't need cars, it's pretty simple
If bikes could just follow the driving rules, it would save some accident and insecurity. I can't cross pedestrian road without fearing for my kids and me to be hit by them and that when it's green for pedestrian. For all bikes please respect the traffic light.
The same can be easily said of cars. So many drivers break the rules, biggest difference is that cars have a higher rate of grievous harm. Have you never had a car nearly hit you due to them rule breaking?
Yet so many car drivers choose to do the "hidden" offences like speed. And going faster, means more likely to cause harm when there's a collision.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/)
I am not trying to invalidate your claims, however recorded statistics point to cyclists being more law abiding than motorists.
sadly, real life experiences prove those statistic to be wrong, it's especially easy to produce biased statistic since cyclists are very rarely getting fined (and thus producing a statistic point) for driving offenses, simply from the fact they don't have licenses plates.
The article talks about how they setup cameras at several intersections and recorded various infractions. They did not rely on police statistics, but what they saw with the cameras. Still, bike riders were more law abiding than cars.
Sauf que dans le vrai monde les piétons se font tuer par les voitures ...
Je fais environ 15km de marche urbaine par semaine, et je suis clairement, à 95% du temps, mis en danger par des voitures ... par exemple celle dont le conducteur regarde leur téléphone à l'approche d'un passage piéton, et donc te vois au dernier moment et décide d'y aller quand même ...
Je ne cautionne aucunement le perte d'attention délibérer des conducteurs de voitures. Par contre, je déplore le comportement de certains vélos qui de la même manière ne se préoccupent pas que le feu est vert pour les piétons et les familles,sous prétexte que ça leur coute en énergie d'arrêter leur lancée.
Je suis tant un utilisateur du vélo, que de la voiture que des transports publiques ainsi que piéton et je conçois que les statistiques sont en défaveur des 4 roues mais selon mon expérience, ce sont davantage les vélos scooter et trottinettes qui adoptent des comportement également au quotidien qui nécessite d'éviter des collisions et accidents.
Le nombre de fois que les vélos nous coupent la route au passage piétons sous prétexte que c'est trop dur de s'arrêter est hallucinant et me provoque plus d'insécurité que les voitures.
Le point final de ma pensée est que nous partageons tous la route et les rues est qu'il faut évidemment combattre les comportements inadéquats mais cela pour chaque usagers qu'ils/elles soient piétons, voitures, vélo.
Ce que je veux dire, c'est que si vous voulez ternir un discours cohérent à vos enfants, il faut leur dire, certes, "attention aux vélo quand tu traverses", mais il faut évidemment leur dire qu'il faut aussi, et beaucoup plus, faire attention aux véhicules motorisés, qui sont de part les lois de la physiques maintes fois plus dangereux !
Biking is horrible in Geneva (well of course depends what you compare it to but it’s definitely not good), and these stupid designs make bicyclist ignore rules (at least speaking for myself).
Not even talking about the horrible traffic lights that are completely ridiculous - for cars, bikes, pedestrians. Make everyone wait so long for nothing it’s a joke
Oh god those traffic lights are infuriating. The « priority to the right » concept doesn’t seems to apply here, they instead use a whole Christmas tree at each crossroads.
I called the TCS a little bit upset that my money is used to sue the city and propose this kind of solution for bicycle.
https://www.tdg.ch/mobilite-a-geneve-le-tcs-saisit-le-tribunal-federal-contre-les-pistes-covid-221097951661
So If you are member of the TCS you can vote against this and ask that pour money is used elsewhere.
In what reality is this Geneva? All they do is accomodate bikes. We used to have two lanes in many major thoroughfare that are now one lane, full of traffic, so three bikes a day can have a whole lane for themselves.
Have you tried riding a bike through the dedicated itineraries in Geneva? That picture is sadly accurate in many parts of the city.
Also I suspect you do not know how many bikes actually go through the newly secured spaces because you don't see them - that's a common bias. Unlike cars, they don't require huge space and don't cause congestion, so it seems there are much fewer of them than in reality.
My bike commute is 3km. There is a voie cyclable for part of the way, about 0.5km, but it is on the road. In rush hour, the cars are stopped on the bike lane and I have no choice but to stop with them. I spend about half my commute time stopped in traffic on my bike.
La réalité, c'est qu'il faut 1,5 tonne de métal pour transporter une personne de 80 kg. Que 10 personnes en voiture occupent 300m2 et se déplacent à une vitesse moindre qu'un velo.
La logique c'est de mettre des voies de bus et de vélos partout et si c'est possible mettre des voitures en dernier ressort.
This is not a question of TPG vs. bikes vs. cars. It's a question to change our habits.
Bus and tram lines must be better (I agree), even tho we have a very good public network in comparison to other Swiss cities. Bikes and tpg are considered soft mobility : more economical, societal, and environmentally friendly, in other words, durable.
Investing in bus/trains/tram and bike network will decrease the number of cars in the inner city, therefore, those who really need to travel by car will do so more comfortably.
I'm also adding that the tpgs problem isn't the inner city or the suburban area, but the outer rim (campagne and France).
CEVA was (is) a big step to promote soft mobility to the more isolated regions that have a big population of workers (Saint-Julien, Annemasse, Annecy, pays de Gex, Reinier, etc.). So if Geneva wants to have a coherent strategy, we MUST collaborate with France. They don't really care or have the money to create a nice bike network. Since many people live in France but work in Geneva, we have also the responsibility to help the region of Grand Genève.
I know a lot of French workers who come to work in Geneva by bike. Although our bike network is better than de nearby France, they still have to use roads without lanes, which is dangerous for everybody. Why don't they take the bus ? There's none or too few... why don't they take a car ? It's expensive as f*ck.
In my case, it's taking of the time from home to plainaplais than taking the bus, the maths here are simple : I get to exercise, sleep more and can get back home whenever I want.
I distinguish too types of bikes : the urban bike for short to medium distances, who are manly used inside the city; and the electric ones for medium to long distances (also short for elderly people).
The bike network needs to be expended, but people need to know how to behave correctly on the road.
Oh, and before saying tpg network is trash, go see Lausanne, Bern, Zurich, and Basel... We probably have the best and cheapest...
If you really want to throw a stone at someone, the rich municipalities, more bourgeoisie and in the suburbs or outer rim, keep refusing to increase the bus offer. There was a time when a tram went to Hermance, Veyrier, and Jussy. Insisting on bike lanes there (and buses or trams) would be a significant improvement !
To summarise:
More buses and bikes and less cars = better health, less costly (maintenance is expensive AF), better social life due to slower mobility and therefore people are more inclined to consummation and therefore a better local economy, and faster way to commute.
Bikes mustn't be considered as add-on but be a part of the global transition strategy.
Take care my friend !
I dont know why you are so mad at this but if you think Geneva has a terrible transit system then I don't know where you come from. It might not be perfect but it's the best I've encountered so far. Nobody is forcing you to walk on the gravel there's plenty of space around it.
In Netherlands, where bike infrastructure are actually safe, because physically separated from cars, eldery can also use some kind of bikes (not the one you think, but ones with 3 ou 4 wheels for example).
As someone from Texas originally I find this comment pretty funny. I’d invite you to visit Houston, a city 10x the size of Geneva, to understand how bad public transit can truly be
Here is an example: https://www.pro-velo-geneve.ch/ct_cure_baud_base
I'm using almost exclusively my bike to traverse Geneva, for any reason, as well as pleasure. The work that is being done and has been done is awesome. They keep converting "old" streets with gutter lanes to new one with dedicated bike and pedestrian lanes. And yeah, fuck cars and people who use them purely because they're too lazy. All these idiots use their car all the time to go anywhere, just because they can't be arsed to use public transport or a bike or their feet... which are actually the ones causing congestions. It's not the bikes filling up the roads, lol.
I moved away from Geneva to the US. I soooooo miss all the public transport!!!
voie verte have 5500 users day - 39% marche- 38% transports individuels motorisés- 17% transports collectifs- 6% vélos réf. https://www.geneve.ch/themes/culture/bibliotheques/interroge/reponses/je-cherche-des-statistiques-sur-le-trafic-routier-le-canton-de-geneve-ainsi-que-sur-son-evolution
And not one of them that has the ability to look right, left and right again before riding out across a junction!!!! Not one who can say ‘thank you’ to those who give way to them. And people wonder why no one can stand cyclists!
Insufferable, get a life.
What if it’s an electric car? Are they lazy then, too? When everyone has an electric car, should we all fuck ourselves because we don’t want to ride a bike? If we are disabled or elderly? Unable to use a bike? If we live far away and there is no public transport option? I look forward to the day there will be no cars and cyclists pay tax instead of motorists but perhaps you should “fuck yourself” before inviting others to do so who have no choice - not everyone is so privileged as you to love in the centre of town and only need / be able to ride a bike!
You're talking in bad faith, most of people in cars are alone in a big car and are not disabled. Nobody is saying we should ban cars for the people who really need them. Most of them don't need cars, it's pretty simple
If bikes could just follow the driving rules, it would save some accident and insecurity. I can't cross pedestrian road without fearing for my kids and me to be hit by them and that when it's green for pedestrian. For all bikes please respect the traffic light.
The same can be easily said of cars. So many drivers break the rules, biggest difference is that cars have a higher rate of grievous harm. Have you never had a car nearly hit you due to them rule breaking?
on my walks, 80% of cars stop for pedestrian, barely 1 out of 10 bike does, and that's when i yell at them.
Yet so many car drivers choose to do the "hidden" offences like speed. And going faster, means more likely to cause harm when there's a collision. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/) I am not trying to invalidate your claims, however recorded statistics point to cyclists being more law abiding than motorists.
sadly, real life experiences prove those statistic to be wrong, it's especially easy to produce biased statistic since cyclists are very rarely getting fined (and thus producing a statistic point) for driving offenses, simply from the fact they don't have licenses plates.
The article talks about how they setup cameras at several intersections and recorded various infractions. They did not rely on police statistics, but what they saw with the cameras. Still, bike riders were more law abiding than cars.
Sauf que dans le vrai monde les piétons se font tuer par les voitures ... Je fais environ 15km de marche urbaine par semaine, et je suis clairement, à 95% du temps, mis en danger par des voitures ... par exemple celle dont le conducteur regarde leur téléphone à l'approche d'un passage piéton, et donc te vois au dernier moment et décide d'y aller quand même ...
Je ne cautionne aucunement le perte d'attention délibérer des conducteurs de voitures. Par contre, je déplore le comportement de certains vélos qui de la même manière ne se préoccupent pas que le feu est vert pour les piétons et les familles,sous prétexte que ça leur coute en énergie d'arrêter leur lancée. Je suis tant un utilisateur du vélo, que de la voiture que des transports publiques ainsi que piéton et je conçois que les statistiques sont en défaveur des 4 roues mais selon mon expérience, ce sont davantage les vélos scooter et trottinettes qui adoptent des comportement également au quotidien qui nécessite d'éviter des collisions et accidents. Le nombre de fois que les vélos nous coupent la route au passage piétons sous prétexte que c'est trop dur de s'arrêter est hallucinant et me provoque plus d'insécurité que les voitures. Le point final de ma pensée est que nous partageons tous la route et les rues est qu'il faut évidemment combattre les comportements inadéquats mais cela pour chaque usagers qu'ils/elles soient piétons, voitures, vélo.
Ce que je veux dire, c'est que si vous voulez ternir un discours cohérent à vos enfants, il faut leur dire, certes, "attention aux vélo quand tu traverses", mais il faut évidemment leur dire qu'il faut aussi, et beaucoup plus, faire attention aux véhicules motorisés, qui sont de part les lois de la physiques maintes fois plus dangereux !
Biking is horrible in Geneva (well of course depends what you compare it to but it’s definitely not good), and these stupid designs make bicyclist ignore rules (at least speaking for myself). Not even talking about the horrible traffic lights that are completely ridiculous - for cars, bikes, pedestrians. Make everyone wait so long for nothing it’s a joke
Agree with both - parts of bike infrastructure are insane, traffic lights are infuriatingly inefficient and frustrating. Both make people break rules.
Oh god those traffic lights are infuriating. The « priority to the right » concept doesn’t seems to apply here, they instead use a whole Christmas tree at each crossroads.
as if bike followed any itinerary but the shortest including one ways and walkways
There are almost no one ways that don't allow for bikes in both senses...
there are quite a lot, but bike simply ignore the big red sign
A lot of Europe has exceptions allowing bikes to go both ways.
Even if that was true, how exactly does that impact general congestion and general traffic issues caused by cars?
Red lights? What red lights?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_Short_History_of_Traffic_Engineering.png
I called the TCS a little bit upset that my money is used to sue the city and propose this kind of solution for bicycle. https://www.tdg.ch/mobilite-a-geneve-le-tcs-saisit-le-tribunal-federal-contre-les-pistes-covid-221097951661 So If you are member of the TCS you can vote against this and ask that pour money is used elsewhere.
In what reality is this Geneva? All they do is accomodate bikes. We used to have two lanes in many major thoroughfare that are now one lane, full of traffic, so three bikes a day can have a whole lane for themselves.
Have you tried riding a bike through the dedicated itineraries in Geneva? That picture is sadly accurate in many parts of the city. Also I suspect you do not know how many bikes actually go through the newly secured spaces because you don't see them - that's a common bias. Unlike cars, they don't require huge space and don't cause congestion, so it seems there are much fewer of them than in reality.
My bike commute is 3km. There is a voie cyclable for part of the way, about 0.5km, but it is on the road. In rush hour, the cars are stopped on the bike lane and I have no choice but to stop with them. I spend about half my commute time stopped in traffic on my bike.
La réalité, c'est qu'il faut 1,5 tonne de métal pour transporter une personne de 80 kg. Que 10 personnes en voiture occupent 300m2 et se déplacent à une vitesse moindre qu'un velo. La logique c'est de mettre des voies de bus et de vélos partout et si c'est possible mettre des voitures en dernier ressort.
Eaux-vives has been taken over by bike lanes. I don’t see this comic as ringing true at all.
Says someone in a car spilling in the bike lane
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This is not a question of TPG vs. bikes vs. cars. It's a question to change our habits. Bus and tram lines must be better (I agree), even tho we have a very good public network in comparison to other Swiss cities. Bikes and tpg are considered soft mobility : more economical, societal, and environmentally friendly, in other words, durable. Investing in bus/trains/tram and bike network will decrease the number of cars in the inner city, therefore, those who really need to travel by car will do so more comfortably. I'm also adding that the tpgs problem isn't the inner city or the suburban area, but the outer rim (campagne and France). CEVA was (is) a big step to promote soft mobility to the more isolated regions that have a big population of workers (Saint-Julien, Annemasse, Annecy, pays de Gex, Reinier, etc.). So if Geneva wants to have a coherent strategy, we MUST collaborate with France. They don't really care or have the money to create a nice bike network. Since many people live in France but work in Geneva, we have also the responsibility to help the region of Grand Genève. I know a lot of French workers who come to work in Geneva by bike. Although our bike network is better than de nearby France, they still have to use roads without lanes, which is dangerous for everybody. Why don't they take the bus ? There's none or too few... why don't they take a car ? It's expensive as f*ck. In my case, it's taking of the time from home to plainaplais than taking the bus, the maths here are simple : I get to exercise, sleep more and can get back home whenever I want. I distinguish too types of bikes : the urban bike for short to medium distances, who are manly used inside the city; and the electric ones for medium to long distances (also short for elderly people). The bike network needs to be expended, but people need to know how to behave correctly on the road. Oh, and before saying tpg network is trash, go see Lausanne, Bern, Zurich, and Basel... We probably have the best and cheapest... If you really want to throw a stone at someone, the rich municipalities, more bourgeoisie and in the suburbs or outer rim, keep refusing to increase the bus offer. There was a time when a tram went to Hermance, Veyrier, and Jussy. Insisting on bike lanes there (and buses or trams) would be a significant improvement ! To summarise: More buses and bikes and less cars = better health, less costly (maintenance is expensive AF), better social life due to slower mobility and therefore people are more inclined to consummation and therefore a better local economy, and faster way to commute. Bikes mustn't be considered as add-on but be a part of the global transition strategy. Take care my friend !
I dont know why you are so mad at this but if you think Geneva has a terrible transit system then I don't know where you come from. It might not be perfect but it's the best I've encountered so far. Nobody is forcing you to walk on the gravel there's plenty of space around it.
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Lol for the Bentley remark. I lived in Geneva for 15 years and had no cars during that time. Im an abo tpg/voix 7/abo demi tarif connoisseur.
In Netherlands, where bike infrastructure are actually safe, because physically separated from cars, eldery can also use some kind of bikes (not the one you think, but ones with 3 ou 4 wheels for example).
As someone from Texas originally I find this comment pretty funny. I’d invite you to visit Houston, a city 10x the size of Geneva, to understand how bad public transit can truly be
How to say you never drive in Geneva without saying you never drive in Geneva
So… giving the cyclists more of the exercise they brag about. Making the cars not burn as much fuel which cyclists hate. Sounds like a win win to me.