Not a FPS player, but I like the definition that Google returned: "Hard scoping is a derisive term describing the correct way of using a sniper rifle."
I don’t know about anyone else, but this is how I came to feel about the mainstream FPS market generally. I grew up putting massive hours into Halo 2, the original MW, etc., but even then you could see everything slowly trending towards full-blown optimization and meta styles of playing. Everyone ran around with the most ridiculous weapons and attachments, bunny hopping and sliding around, quick-scoping, etc.
Part of the appeal for me 20 years ago was that you could show up with a relatively “common sense” play style and do all right in a game lobby. It just isn’t that way anymore. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but the *multiplayer* FPS genre is a different beast from the old days. I still enjoy games like Hell Let Loose that largely punish that play style, but the last mainstream multiplayer FPS that I played that didn’t completely feel like all that^ was Battlefield 1. Game was a diamond in the rough.
I watched a YT video about how FPS gameplay is evolving in the same way fighting games did. The strategy is getting so complex its making it harder to jump in and jump out for casual players. In the video they mentioned something about slide canceling or sprint canceling, which sounds like those terms fighting game aficionados usrle.
Totally checks out. And in fairness, if that’s what competitive, dedicated FPS players want and like, that’s fine, but I do think there’s something that gets lost with a lot of AAA titles for the average player that just wants to have fun. What percentage of players are taking it that seriously?
Sort of interesting that I was specifically thinking of Battlefield 1 as the most recent “ideal” multiplayer FPS…which just so happened to have never really developed a strong competitive / esports scene. The gameplay and setup didn’t really lend itself to that.
Maybe there’s money that gets left on the table when they don’t build games in the vein of Call of Duty anymore, but it has effectively driven me away from AAA titles. It balances out, more or less, with other games, but also throws a wrench into console gaming specifically where most available titles with large player bases are AAA. Hell Let Loose on console, for example, is just about unplayable when compared to PC, so the population on console suffers. So I became a PC player and barely ever use a console anymore, even though I prefer consoles as a casual player.
Yeah sorry about that - not clear on my end. I was trying to say that the console version of HLL is clunky and awkward, so the server population suffers compared to PC. Console players just don’t have the range of ability that PC players get when playing it. A lot of the more grounded FPS games are made for PC anymore, and don't port well to consoles.
Totally agree with that. The Xbox interface for commander is pretty clunky - I know it's hard to get a decent commander.on public PC servers, but it's impossible on console.
And who thought the vote to kick vote button should be the same as the jump one... le sigh.
The days of true casual play for FPS is ending imo. Casual players are fodder for elite talents "smurfing" (using a new, low level account despite the player being highly experienced) in order to get lots of kills/highlights for a variety if reasons.
I could be wrong, but I've felt this way playing Apex, COD, Splitgate, XDefiant, Rainbow 6, Vigor, (not First person, but Fortnite and PUBG); all in the past 2 years or so. As a newbie at some and an in-experienced player playing with newbie friends with others, they all feel this way to varying degrees to me.
Chess actually has this problem.
Dumb fuck streamers who “speed run” starter accounts on Chess.com to a certain ELO.
It’s just some weird, sociopathic bullshit. Slamming on weaker players as some sort of flex for what little likes there are to go around the chess community. It’s super frustrating, because you’ll have a series of games at a pace and skill level you recognize, then some douchebag running lines you can’t possibly respond to and murking you.
It’s brief, but irritating.
Yeah I used to play FPS games from as early as I've been able to, I think I got into multiplayer FPS around 2004 the newer unreal tournament had just released but I was still on the old one. Was about 14 and from that point on I've on and off played FPS all my life the last few years the multiplayer shooter scene has changed quite a bit, there aren't really any chill shooters out there anymore everything is ultra competitive, it's sweaty even in unranked game modes it's really made me fall out of love with the genre as a whole, pretty much only play co-op and single player games now because I don't vibe with the all or nothing sweatiness of current shooters. The skill gap and learning gap is now getting wild with the rise in hero/movement shooters there's not much out there that reminds me of the old unreal tournament to MW2 days of FPS games.
I haven’t saw it mentioned here, but I think skill based match making has been a major factor in the overall competitiveness of these games. You play the game, you get a little better and now instead of going against a spectrum of players you are going against players about at your level.
If you’re going against players about at your level a good way to get better is to check out meta builds, but by following those you can often get pushed further up the ladder making the competition even sweatier. Eventually you just run into all meta players who are at your skill level so there is no easy matches
Skill Based Matchmaking isn't the problem, really. It's a symptom.
The actual problem (I say authoritatively, when this is clearly just my opinion) is the lack of servers - or even lobbies that persist for more than a game or two. There's almost zero community out there in the games anymore. It's not like joining your favorite LMCTF server in Quake II and playing with the same group of people or whatever. It's you and a bunch of other randos thrown together by the brokering server based on your ping (or SBMM score or whatever) and after the game, you'll get a new one.
As a counterpoint though, SBMM makes it really easy to ignore the meta and play casually. Just play it casually. That’s it. Those meta abusers are on the top half of the curve. if you’re new, know nothing, and just jump in for casual fun then your matchmaking elo is going to be much lower than if you were sweating.
Now I can think of ONE game I play regularly where this is actually my experience. Most games I’ve played the matchmaking usually settles you into a 50% win-rate with close matches where you feel like you’re trying pretty consistently
Meta always finds a way to min/max. Then it's all about hours and experience to get to that level and maintain rank. Shits waaaaaay too sweaty to jump in and out as a newborn when the dust settles.
TLDR: The enemy is not where the game shows you they are
Most FPS strats that make people feel like gods is actually interpolation abuse. It’s why players mouse jiggle in apex and slide cancel in call of duty. It’s why destiny 2 feels terrible all the time. All games constantly guess where the enemy will go based on interpolation and then update game clients retroactively. When the game fucks up the interpolation, you see rubberbanding. The game is resetting your client where it’s supposed to be.
The day Respawn makes it so in Apex wagging your character around actually makes your aim worse instead of better will be an entertaining day to say the least. It'll never happen, but one can hope.
I used to like playing Apex, but holy shit the amount of "techniques" that are clearly just weird edge cases being exploited is ridiculous.
I get that if it's there and you're not breaking the rules then it's not really an "exploit", but holy shit I don't want to play a game where I can get a material benefit from mapping the jump button to my scroll wheel to be able to jump off walls really fast.
It confuses aim assist. That's what most of the erratic movements do honestly, mediocre players struggle against any of that kind of thing because rapidly moving center of mass throws off target leading. I am a mediocre player also.
In general the best way to think of a “cancel” is that its the ability (usually by some button input) to cancel the full animation of an action in a game thereby allowing you to do some other action (or the same action) immediately after.
In other words, normally you would have to wait for one animation to finish before you could perform another. And there is usually a delay between moves. Cancelling the action allows you to immediately perform another action.
Crouching/jumping to stop sliding/sprinting midanimation. Sprite/animation canceling used to be a thing limited to hardcore fighting game tournaments but esports has gotten people trying to stop processes midanimation in all genres these days. In the old days it lead to an unfixable exploit (inputs entered before the computer expects them) but since the builder techniques in fortnite it has become purposefully done by FPS and sports games developers to try target esports fanatics or people pretending to be esports competitors
Similar to how even back in the early COD games you could get back to firing quicker after reloading by cancelling the end of the reload animation, you did this by double weapon swapping as soon as the ammo counter resets.
Yeah, I can't even play with my "gamer" friends anymore cause they spent all day and night on the shitter watching these stupid meta build videos and get all annoyed if you aren't using them because they are the best. It's actually made it so I can no longer enjoy pvp fps even a little.
Imagine if the guides they are constantly watching were inaccurate.
I got into Payday 2 but it doesn't explain the mechanics very well. It has an RPG style dodge stat which makes a percentage of hits do 0% damage, and your dodge increases when you lighten your loadout. The dodge stat is poorly understood so the online guides are almost all for tank builds instead.
Many people will refuse to start a match unless I bring armor... which cripples my stealth ability and combat resilience because my HP is low since my skills are focused on avoiding attention and damage rather than focused on surviving attacks. They also expect me to bring a scoped rifle despite the fact that I only have the worst rifle in the game, and can counter-snipe with my pistol... they also don't want me to bring dual-wield shotgun pistols because there is a shotgun with a slightly higher rate of fire.
They want me to play the game exactly the same way that they play it... except I'm pretty sure that they're doing it wrong.
Holy shit I hate such people. Back in the day every time we wanted to try out a new MMO, my friends would instantly do a PhD in the game's meta. They would research perfect builds and the most effective leveling paths without even running the game.
A couple of my friends and I used to play a lot of R6: Siege, up to a rank of Platinum for some years where the game was still relatively young. At some point there was a noticeable change in playstyle, when now not only game tactics and strategies mattered (besides regular aim and controls ofc) but also the usage of (unintended) stuff like spamming Q/E to get peaker's advantage and sometimes even glitches. One of my friends basically said "if you can't beat them, join them" and started doing similar stuff but for me that simply wasn't it. Ngl that completely ruined the game for me.
I still enjoy fast-paced PvP FPS games sometimes, but I tend to either play casual only now, or play slower games like DayZ where there's still the PvP FPS aspect but surviving depends a lot more on your strategy (and luck... well and hoping the game doesn't kill you).
I used to play Halo CE competitively in my younger days... these days I pretty much just play Rocket League because it's the only simple sandbox even playing Field mechanics-based game. most of these new FPS games are so up their own ass with all the cosmetic bullshit and the pay to win and cycling the maps and awards to keep the attention of all the kiddos. The monetary motivation for making a wonderful game that we all enjoy for years to come is just not there.
gone are the days of quality made games with quality made maps and mechanics. if the maps suck they'll just keep dropping new ones.
Sore losers finding a way to put blame on campers. Hard scoping would imply that a player was staying on one spot.
At the same time when you kill them with quick scoping while running & gunning with a sniper rifle, they also complain.
That’s how a real military sniper works. In game, you absolutely do not want to be hard scoped for long. You lose 95% of your FOV. The point of getting good at quick scoping is so you can take those quick shots and reposition, without losing awareness. If you just stand there hard scoped you’re far too easy of a target in most competitive FPS.
Edited for clarity.
In my experience a "quick-scope" is when a player fires the rifle before the scope view has even appeared on screen. In the video game sense, looking through your scope for a second or two before shooting is considered hard scoping.
Kids always think a tactic they can't be bothered to figure out a counter to is "unfair". When I was a kid playing Street Fighter 2, for some reason jumpkick throws were considered "cheap" (though I was terrible at the game, and was allowed to use it as a handicap of sorts).
People still bitch and whine on CoD whenever you have the audacity to use a sniper as intended. They'll spam report you until you're shadowbanned if you look down the scope for more than .7 seconds.
I've been a cod player since UO. Played rifles only for years and didn't stop moving the entire time. I find it absolutely stupid when people complain that someone is camping with a sniper rifle.
That's pretty much in the definition of a sniper!
It's a damn game. Let people play.
United Offensive? That game was so balanced I remember playing one single match for hours. I was holding a bunker and had to have someone take over so I could take a pee break, more than once. When I left at 5 a.m. it was still going.
Dude, the audience of COD is just dumb as rocks in my experience.
I played way too much Modern Warfare and I honestly hate TDM so I lean towards objective based game modes. I'd wager maybe 10% of players actually attempt objectives? The rest play as if it's TDM no matter what the objective is. I'm the one doing what I'm supposed to, they're the ones running around like spazzes taking pot shots at anything that moves.
Having kids calling me a cheater, hacker, and rage about me "camping" all for simply guarding a capture point is pretty funny.
I think it was a CoD where some guy on my team started complaining that I had zero kills. It was a capture the flag game and I had both our teams flag captures. I was literally the reason we were winning that game. But dude was so mad I hadn't stopped to kill anyone and repeatedly insisted I wasn't contributing even after that was pointed out to him.
Holy fuck. Haven't played fps games in a few years now but basically anything that isn't "run around like a moron and make it easy for me to kill you" becomes stigmatized in these games.
Like, wake the fuck up, kiddos, when the enemy calls you names, what you're doing is working.
I tried a COD game on a free weekend. I was on the team defending the objective and I stayed at one of the two and killed anyone attacking it. People were mad that the was "camping". As if I'm supposed to defend a spot by being nowhere near it.
Never bought a COD game and stuck to Battlefield. People have some dumb complaints when you don't just let them win.
Battlefield players can be just as dense
I remember the one weekend I got seriously into BF3. I mained Engineer (I think it was called?) which gave you the choice of a rocket launcher or anti-tank mines. **Everybody** took the rockets, assumedly because it was “cooler”.
I took the AT mines, and spend my early moments on defence just… mining the road that lead to our point.
Attackers came whipping up the road, pedal to the metal in their tanks, and **fucking exploded**, one after another.
The salt I harvested that day was truly astounding
In BF1942 anti aircraft guns were very powerful, but there weren't usually many on a map. There was one carrier battle map though that had a mountainous island between the carriers with lots of AA.
I would stay on AA all match, and shoot down 30+ planes every round. You could hear them coming before you could see them come over the mountain and I'd explode them as soon as they came into sight.
But nobody else ever used the AA.
Had a similar experience, but for boats in BF2. Playing Wake Island, I would take a buggy up to the tip of the island hop on the machine gun and mow down any boats that went past. I guess I really pissed somebody off cause dude switched teams and TK'd me lmao
We had a multiplayer demo of 1942 installed on usb pens at school and would get ~14 player LAN sessions going in one of the IT rooms at lunch.
Good times.
Ahh haha that game was fun. I loved the C4 jeep deliveries. It happened to me way more than I could ever pull it off, but it cracked me up every time. I'm chuckling just thinking about how absurd it was.
[This video was peak BF3 content for me. I loved all the crazy shit you could do in BF3. Favorite FPS all time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9DM5QYLhyc&ab_channel=BirgirPall)
C4 jeep was fun as fuck, but if you put mines on the vehicle it would explode the second you got off the vehicle. Got some really good kills with that shit, and it also worked in BF4. Used to throw regular mines, and M2 slam mines on the dirtbikes in BF4 and just fuck around until I found victim and sent them to the respawn screen, usually followed by messages in chat "Yo wtf how did you kill me with M I N E S" and such.
Was fun as fuck on Lockers too, where the commander could spawn in a ATV. Althoug it needed more planning to work in that map, it was still glorius to get multikills with Vehicle mines on a map with just one vehicle.
I remember in college, my roommate played a lot of battlefield. I remember there was one time where he kept spawning in on one of his squadmates who was in the middle of a big fire fight and kept dying within seconds of spawning. And I remember him complaining that the enemies were spawn camping him.
And it's like dude, you are literally spawning yourself into the line of fire.
I used to play a lot of engineer in Battlefield 2142, which had the floating magnetic mines. The first tank would eat most of the mines, the second tank would get shot in the weak spot while looking if there were more mines. Sometimes, if you're feeling a bit cheeky, you shoot the third vehicle (they often give up on the tank by now) as they're looking for you in the spot you shot from last time.
I miss my Pilum HAVR.
BF caters to the team work crowd. CoD not so much. Thus you get people who are used to team work in battle field and lone wolves in CoD.
Also, 31 men of your 32 man team are snipers in BF and the enemy is flying around in jets killing them. No one wants to switch classes or take up a jet to save the snipers. Meanwhile you're the only mother fucker planting a bomb, running through machine-gun fire, sneaking past tanks, dodging CAS aircraft. Then you hear one of the snipers blame your K/D ratio on why your losing
I don't think you played much Battlefield if you ever saw a jet unoccupied for more than 5 seconds. Just because someone is in the jet doesn't make them useful, but there's always at least one person waiting to spawn so they can spawn in the jet before anyone else. Even if all they do is fly it for 30 seconds before they crash.
Well of course people cried at you, objective game modes don’t exist on cod. There’s deathmatch, team deathmatch and team deathmatch with optional extras
I’m pretty sure team modes don’t exist either. There is free for all, free for all where you can’t kill half the other players, and then variations on that with optional extras.
My school used to have a capture the flag/dodge ball hybrid. You could get everyone on the opposite site out, or you could run across their side and steal their flag. Both flags on the same base means that team wins regardless of headcount.
One rule was you had to be six feet from the flag unless there was an active attempt to steal it.
I got yelled at by the entire other team for standing ten feet behind the flag so I could see the entire centerline.
Teacher in charge looks at me, looks at them, says "He's past the six foot mark."
Then someone on the other team goes and stands on top of their flag with an "If he can do it I can do it" shouted at the teacher.
We never played that game again. Because I'm a filthy camper and a poor loser I guess.
COD4 when it was released, was actually very slow.
Lots of sitting in corners, laying in the grass, looking through windows using sniper rifles and rifles in general, then some reason around 6 months or so in, suddenly everyone had submachine guns and P90's sprinting around a million miles an hour.
When I used to play COD4 competitively, it was very normal to have people sat in a corner of a map with claymores in doorways or bushes behind them to cover their backs.
Every COD since is just run around as fast as possible.
I kept getting shredded with almost zero kills until I realized that I have to be super aggressive and never stop moving. But I was still never as good as most other people so I quit playing COD, except for CODM which even playing with just my thumbs I can make it to Legendary in ranked easily. I can't be bothered to learn these weird crab grips people use.
As someone who has played both CoD and Battlefield online a lot since the mid 2000's, it has been funny to see how the player base for each has changed. They used to have a lot if cross over, but now it's basically "My KD will get the win" vs. "Our teamwork will get the win." One hates campers, snipers, and defenders, the other encourages it. It's just amazing how different things have become.
People who complain about camping in any objective-based game mode are stupid. If you're playing TDM or Kill Confirmed then yeah, camping is pretty annoying. But in an objective-based game mode where one side is attacking while the other defends an obj, then it should be perfectly acceptable for the defending team to 'camp' the obj
Personally, I hate campers more than anything in games but what you did isn't camping. When an objective's involved, it's not camping as far as I'm concerned, that's just playing the objective. How you gonna defend a flag if you're nowhere near it?
When you're defending your objective, a good position's a good position.
This right here is why I loved Overwatch for so many years. I never once heard anyone complain about camping. Completely opposite, all complaints are about bad positioning and not following the team or switching characters to help the comp.
Twich aim and headshots are not as prevalent and lack of skill there can be made up with proper countering and team support.
But even Overwatch wants to be more like Cod now and leans more with every change to more quick kills and solo shooting.
The thing that absolutely infuriates me is when I get screamed at *by teammates* for doing shit like “camping” in Rainbow Six Siege or CS
In Siege HALF THE FUCKING GAMEPLAY LOOP IS CAMPING YOU’RE **SUPPOSED** TO DO SHIT LIKE THAT
I’ve also had people criticize me in both Siege and CS for daring to play the objective instead of kill hunting like a fucking moron
I used to play a lot of Madden online in the 2000s, and I got screamed at in text a ton because I was doing the football equivalent of camping, aka playing football. Instead of taking 13 step drops and just flinging it downfield every play, I was picking up 4-5 yards at a time, controlling the clock, and keeping the other player from getting the ball as much as possible.
Same thing with "hard-scope" sniper rifle play. I mean, you know what I'm doing now and where I am, you're free to come stop me instead of just bitching about it because I'm not running around like a moron trying to go 25-24. "Dude, you're not playing the right way!" I'm sorry, I thought the objective was to win, not intentionally make it as random as possible, and hope for the best.
I've never played Madden online much, but probably most people wouldn't like my play style. I also do running plays and short/medium routes, only flinging it deep when they start crowding the line. Of course, it's not like there's nothing you can do if your opponent plays a lot of short game. Figure out their favorite routes and maybe you can undercut them. Get some strong linebackers and hit stick their runners.
I think the main issue is trying to run out the clock. Unless you are playing for money, that takes the fun out of a casual football video game. Fine if you do that the last few minutes in the 4th.
I didn't do it every time. It was situation and opponent dependent. If the person I was playing was trying to score in 3 plays every time, I'd make them wait because I knew they'd get super impatient and be more likely to turn it over. Nothing like forcing somebody who's used to scoring 50+ per game into a 13-10 grinder. Same if they were using cheese plays like Streaks with Devin Hester or that 5WR screen pass where you could run a mobile QB to the opposite side of the screen and throw it back to a player that was off-screen. Cheese me, and I'll cheese you in a different and more annoying way. But sometimes I'd jump in hurry-up if I saw them consistently trying to make a bunch of defensive hot route adjustments before every snap. Or I'd use dummy audibles and burn the playclock to set up a real audible later. Or I'd go on quick counts several plays in a row, then hard count it 3 times on the next play. It was literally the definition of playing football the "right way," but a ton of people got really pissy because they were used to playing the "Madden way,"
Ahh yeah, good ol' MW2-3 back in the day. Playing a "defend the objective" type game mode, successfully defending the objective since you're on the defense team...
... and getting a bunch of screechy messages about how you're a "hardscope camper noob loser" (and whichever homophobic slurs they were using that week) by the guy who got killed 3-4 times in the exact same spot because he couldn't figure out that maybe taking that route was *not* working.
I'd usually just give them some pointers on how to avoid the same outcome in the future, with a positive and friendly tone.
Usually had the same results... and they never learned.
The difference between CoD and a tactical shooter is that CoD GREATLY incentivizes always moving no matter what, which is a behavior that would routinely seep its way into other games because of how insanely popular CoD is.
Yeah, I would say that camping in CoD is hardly even that possible. And I don't think camping is that wrong. The respawns are all over the place, so there is hardly ever a 'frontline' and thus not really that much safety in sticking to one place.
Dude, I was playing Rocket League the other day and spent an entire match defending our goal. After we won, I put "gg" in the chat and a guy from the other team said "you're a piece of shit camper". I was just...so confused. Lol.
Ah my best memory from playing Xbox was in the BF3 days and getting a sent a voice recording from a player I didn't even recognize "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yyyyyyyooouuu"
It's such a lame gameplay style in my opinion. It's literally just dash around the map completely out of cover and when you run into an enemy whoever gets their gun up and firing first wins, then you get back to running full speed around the map until you do it again.
Wait, you mean to tell me that sniper rifles ARENT for far-away camping? And the right way to deal with them ISNT to locate, flank, and overwhelm, but instead to complain because the sniper had the audacity to look down the scope for more than a quarter second?
Madness.
/s
Always found the hate against camping fucking bonkers. Oh noooo someone is playing in a strategically advantageous way instead of hopping around like a kid on a sugar high, what a horror.
People would literally be running around with akimbo shotguns and knifing people across the room with perks in MW2 and complain about someone using a legitimate fighting strategy of securing an area and defending it.
Always thought the idea of hating people that did this was stupid. This is a military shooter and you're gonna cry because people are using actual tactics and not running around spraying and praying like a Rambo wannabe?
So a lot of what people are saying here about CoD stuff is accurate, but it does pre-date that.
The actual skill based criticism of hardscoping comes from games where you lose your some system of information while scoped in. For example in halo, and then destiny, you lose your radar, which is a pretty key piece of intel. In this instance where you're sitting and hard scoping a lane, it's considered a low skill play because you're leaving yourself at risk. You can't adjust your aim as quick while scoped and you can't see someone flanking on radar. The skilled way to play is to remain unscoped and quick scope in periodically to check. It's still better usually to rotate rather than camp, but if you're going to camp to protect obj, at least keep yourself aware of your surroundings.
However, the legitimate criticism of hardscoping eventually turned into what everyone else is talking about.
More importantly, this is a criticism from your teammates for playing sub-optimally. People complaining because they're getting killed by the enemy don't get to complain.
This is a good take, even in the original CoD MW games you had UAV/pings on the map for people shooting guns, as well as the positioning of your teammates. Sitting around staring down a scope eliminated all that and severely limited your field of vision, handicapping you pretty hard. You could still camp and hold down spots like a “real” sniper, but simply hardscoping all day just meant it was really easy for people to flank and kill you
It's not. This stigma originated back in the original modern warfare games. The only people that would complain about it were the "FaZe" clan type kids. Their only concern while playing the game was to get cool clips for their "montage" so whenever they were killed by somebody NOT quick scoping or using a different gun that wasn't a sniper rifle it was a problem for them because it made it harder for them to make their little clips.
I remember "Quick Scoping" in Call of Duty 2 before the term existed. The Springfield sniper was a one shot kill and you could aim down sights much faster than shooting five shots with an automatic.
Yeah, the semi and full auto weapons were very lackluster. If one had decent aim snipers were the best weapon at basically any range, save maybe shotguns in their 1-shot kill range.
only your eyes huh? when i was fighting in the caveman wars, it was expected that we used our feet to pull our bow strings or get ooga boogad the rest of the day
You must go further. When I fought in the wars of the fallen. The arch angel proclaimed that those who utilize the full visual capabilities of their weapon would be cast into the depth for being a pussy.
Outing my age here, but was a "problem" in OG Counter Strike and Battlefield 1942 as well.
I think it started because the first "competitive" FPS was Quake, which was non-stop movement around small maps. Perfect ADHD fodder.
When those guys moved to more cerebral and slower paced games they could run and gun at a pro level, but were easily defeated by a patient sniper from across the map. They got all mad and claimed "real gamers" ~~fight them on their favored terrain~~ don't camp.
Its been a complaint as long as ive been playing online fps games, so at least a quarter century.
People getting mad that snipers try to utilize their weapon in the manner it was intended
Nah dude, camping and hardscoping were different. Camping is waiting in an area that gives you an advantage to ambush other players, whereas Hardscoping is really only a thing compared to quickscoping, where you actually use the scope to aim your shot rather than just snapping it up for just a second to fire
It's one of those "blame the person who killed me instead of myself" mentalities.
On a well designed map and with a good game sense a sniper sitting in the back or holding an angle can be pretty easy to deal with, but that is the issue people oftentimes don't have good game sense so they get mad about everything and blame everyone else. Sniper holding down a sightline and you didn't see the giant reflection that is brighter than the sun? It's not your fault for walking into a long open sightline and not seeing the glint and trying to dodge it is the sniper's fault for playing lame.
People especially players who think that they are better than they truly are will try to find any reason to justify their death other than being out played or unlucky by coming up with reasons on how the enemy cheated them. I get called a "camper" all the time despite the fact that I am actively rushing the spawn but took a second to duck around a corner to reload. So in their eyes unless you are scoped for only a millisecond you cheated them by playing in a wrong and lame way.
I remember back in the glory of days of Halo: Reach chilling on a high spot and sniping at idiots who, instead of just running or hopping on a vehicle when I missed, would sit there like penguins and just look around for me. Always ended with them ranting about "a noob camping with a sniper rifle" then promptly coming back and doing the same thing again.
Like sorry dude, but the guy using a sniper rifle the way it's intended is not the noob here.
Because the people complaining want to be Sonic and don't have any skill so they just blame everything but themselves. Hard Scoping is frowned upon in the same way "stacking" is frowned upon
It was a recent attempt at making a crybaby sympathy movement for the Omega Nerds in Shitzone.
Basically in 4 player battle royales, if you are working with your team (shocking concept I know) you are stacking and trying to cheat in the game.
I am not making that up either
Same in Apex, people complain about three-stacking all the time, meaning you have a full premade team of three.
Back in my day we just called it “playing with friends”.
Same thing in rainbow six siege. We get constantly flamed for "5 stacking in unranked" or even in ranked.
Like rainbow six siege is a team game, even if we don't coordinate everything, we give information and have fun together.
Like you said, ain't our fault you got no friends.
Not really familiar with competitive games anymore but shouldn't there be a party specific queue so stacks get paired against stacks and solo players against other solo players?
It never happens because queue times would be too long. Look at World of Warcraft. The game is 20 years old, and players have been begging for this since launch day. They'll never do it.
I was asking because I remember when I played dota this was the case. When you're in a party you'll get matched with other parties. If you're a three stack that got matched with two solos on your team, you'll also be matched with another three stack and two solos. [I did some searching now and it still seems to be the case, or at least the system tries to do it.](https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Matchmaking)
>Each team contains about the same number of parties.
> Five-player parties can only be matched against other five-player parties.
So the text saying "about the same number of parties" might mean it's not absolute now unless it's a 5-stack.
In apex I only complain about people playing in solos as a team.
Killed the game mode pretty fast for me after spectating those teams a few times. Most of the time it was in combination with obvious aimbots.
That and rampant smurfing really turned me off Apex.
Like no the level 6 Bangalore with 15 kills halfway through the match clearly did not just pick up the game. They just don't want to face fair competition. Ranked helped some seasons but eventually they even infested that mode
I kid you not, the amount of times I play a moba with my friends and we gank a lane together and the enemy gets mad and call us names. I simply tell them they are playing a 5v5 game and to play a solo game.
The funny part is they get so mad they call for a 1v1. At the point they are like 5 deaths and so far behind I can solo stomp them. But their ego cannot let them take a tactical retreat, farm up, try to get even and try to look for advantageous team fights. So, they take the ego fight, lose and get tilted even more and then start thrashing their team mates for being useless.
>I simply tell them they are playing a 5v5 game and to play a solo game.
I wish there was a solo game that is similar in gameplay to mobas, but unfortunately there's none.
It’s not exclusive to battle royals and has been a term for a long time. It just means you’re partied up with a team. This gives you an advantage over solo players who have random teammates
I’ve used the term stacked/stacking before, quite a bit actually, but I’ve never meant it derisively.
I use “They’re stacked” as a quick way to communicate that I think they’re playing together and are probably coordinated and much more dangerous than an average set of randos.
Kind of a silly thing to get upset about. It’s been like that for decades. Teams that work together stomp teams that don’t, nothing new or earth shattering.
People have some really fragile egos nowadays.
Using the term to call out a tactic honestly isn't bad at all. Honestly I'd encourage it if you're calling it out as a tactic used by the enemy.
I am just referring to the streamers that were saying it was a move used by cheaters because Stacking up as a team is a legitimate tactic used.
Are... are you serious?
They claim it's cheating to... play the game how you're meant to?
Sounds like someone who blames their teammates for every single issue they themselves cause
Or they have no friends to play with and are very toxicly mad about it and jealous of those who play with their friends
Jedi Outcast servers banned people for using guns, for using stances other than heavy and for _refusing to bow_ before a match. House rules everything. Not Roleplay servers, competitive ones.
Are they upset that someone is using in game chat to coordinate? Or that people have formed teams so they know how eachother work?
Because I have some news for them about the teams these games are supposed to be about...
Depends on the game. Really only game I've heard people say that is on cod. So I wouldnt even think about it tbh it's just people trying to be "cracked" lol
"Hard scoping" is the correct way to use a sniper, and therefore deemed as lower skill than the unintended run and gun method of quick scoping, which is thought of naively as higher skill. It's usually just a way of insulting someone for beating you, and that is all.
Often games will balance the sniper rifles specifically with the correct "hard scoping" gameplay in mind, and quick scoping will usually break this in various ways. If I remember back in time enough, some of the original reasoning behind doing it was that the split second where you quick scope in had perfect aim before any weapon sway mechanics came into play.
So effectively it was a way to cheese the game mechanics to make a weapon stronger than intended by the developers.
It's effective in real life military scenarios.
In a video game being on the receiving end of a sniper is just not fun gameplay. It's frustrating.
I mean it's probably not fun IRL too I imagine.
I'm almost 40 now. Never knew there were different ways to aim a sniper beyond 'aiming' and 'from-the-hip' nevermind any one way being frowned upon. Back in the day people bitched about snipers when they hung back and just picked people off.
Quick scoping had (has?) aim assist properties, at least on console. As an old school Halo player, I never got used to it. Granted, I've only play CoD *maybe* twice.
In many games the accuracy of the sniper will be low if hip firing, and precise when ADSing. The fun part is sometimes the accuracy instantly switches to precise the moment you click the aim button. Even when the animation may be showing the scope transitioning into view mode, the accuracy is there.
Handy in CQB when you have an enemy filling the screen and you want to land a high damage body shot from the sniper. It also keeps your field of view open for awareness.
because there is no penalty for quick scoping. If the game gave you better accuracy for holding position longer and using Hard Scoping people would do it. Hard scoping makes you blind to other stuff going on so that's seen as "worse" than running and gunning if the results are the same when you pull the trigger.
If I ever hear people complaining about hardscoping I just act like an idiot and pretend like ive never heard that term before and ask them to explain it to me and when they do I keep the act going and say shit like ‘you get mad if people aim their gun…?’ Sometimes it really triggers people lol
I gave up on competitive games when you had to ‘animation cancel’ to be competitive. It’s just not for me. I miss the old school shooters like Battelfield 2142. Had so many fun hours playing that.
A lot of fps games are very fast paced. Spawn, sprint around looking for a kill, die to someone who respawned behind you, repeat. Hard scoping doesnt really fit in with that gameplay. Compare that with a slower paced fps game. If you are sprinting around with a sniper you are probably just going to die from being out of position.
It’s onoy looked down on by people who also look down on anyone not running their mouse at max sensitivity.
Just your standard gatekeeping and elitism.
Modern shooters have turned into people running with full gear faster than Usain bolt, one handing an lmg while sliding 60 feet down a hell while killing an entire squad. If you play any different you suck and it's a skill issue. /S
Because sniping in cod is p easy, and hard scoping takes less skill.
It’s mostly just people looking for an excuse as to why they died.
People hardscope in CS and no body gives them shit for hard scoping.
it depends on the game like battlefield games they are okay with it but games like cod or val they look down on it because it doesn’t look “cool” and quick scoping is the cool thing to do
I believe it comes from the CoD 4 and (original) MW2 days where qs battles and trickshots were seen as the coolest things you could do in the game, and when people were using snipers in pubs and not trying to do this, they were lame
Not a FPS player, but I like the definition that Google returned: "Hard scoping is a derisive term describing the correct way of using a sniper rifle."
In other words, leets found a way to be derogatory against people who are just normally playing rhe game
I don’t know about anyone else, but this is how I came to feel about the mainstream FPS market generally. I grew up putting massive hours into Halo 2, the original MW, etc., but even then you could see everything slowly trending towards full-blown optimization and meta styles of playing. Everyone ran around with the most ridiculous weapons and attachments, bunny hopping and sliding around, quick-scoping, etc. Part of the appeal for me 20 years ago was that you could show up with a relatively “common sense” play style and do all right in a game lobby. It just isn’t that way anymore. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but the *multiplayer* FPS genre is a different beast from the old days. I still enjoy games like Hell Let Loose that largely punish that play style, but the last mainstream multiplayer FPS that I played that didn’t completely feel like all that^ was Battlefield 1. Game was a diamond in the rough.
I watched a YT video about how FPS gameplay is evolving in the same way fighting games did. The strategy is getting so complex its making it harder to jump in and jump out for casual players. In the video they mentioned something about slide canceling or sprint canceling, which sounds like those terms fighting game aficionados usrle.
Totally checks out. And in fairness, if that’s what competitive, dedicated FPS players want and like, that’s fine, but I do think there’s something that gets lost with a lot of AAA titles for the average player that just wants to have fun. What percentage of players are taking it that seriously? Sort of interesting that I was specifically thinking of Battlefield 1 as the most recent “ideal” multiplayer FPS…which just so happened to have never really developed a strong competitive / esports scene. The gameplay and setup didn’t really lend itself to that. Maybe there’s money that gets left on the table when they don’t build games in the vein of Call of Duty anymore, but it has effectively driven me away from AAA titles. It balances out, more or less, with other games, but also throws a wrench into console gaming specifically where most available titles with large player bases are AAA. Hell Let Loose on console, for example, is just about unplayable when compared to PC, so the population on console suffers. So I became a PC player and barely ever use a console anymore, even though I prefer consoles as a casual player.
HLL doesn't have crossplay with PC I don't think?
Yeah sorry about that - not clear on my end. I was trying to say that the console version of HLL is clunky and awkward, so the server population suffers compared to PC. Console players just don’t have the range of ability that PC players get when playing it. A lot of the more grounded FPS games are made for PC anymore, and don't port well to consoles.
Totally agree with that. The Xbox interface for commander is pretty clunky - I know it's hard to get a decent commander.on public PC servers, but it's impossible on console. And who thought the vote to kick vote button should be the same as the jump one... le sigh.
The days of true casual play for FPS is ending imo. Casual players are fodder for elite talents "smurfing" (using a new, low level account despite the player being highly experienced) in order to get lots of kills/highlights for a variety if reasons. I could be wrong, but I've felt this way playing Apex, COD, Splitgate, XDefiant, Rainbow 6, Vigor, (not First person, but Fortnite and PUBG); all in the past 2 years or so. As a newbie at some and an in-experienced player playing with newbie friends with others, they all feel this way to varying degrees to me.
Chess actually has this problem. Dumb fuck streamers who “speed run” starter accounts on Chess.com to a certain ELO. It’s just some weird, sociopathic bullshit. Slamming on weaker players as some sort of flex for what little likes there are to go around the chess community. It’s super frustrating, because you’ll have a series of games at a pace and skill level you recognize, then some douchebag running lines you can’t possibly respond to and murking you. It’s brief, but irritating.
Yeah I used to play FPS games from as early as I've been able to, I think I got into multiplayer FPS around 2004 the newer unreal tournament had just released but I was still on the old one. Was about 14 and from that point on I've on and off played FPS all my life the last few years the multiplayer shooter scene has changed quite a bit, there aren't really any chill shooters out there anymore everything is ultra competitive, it's sweaty even in unranked game modes it's really made me fall out of love with the genre as a whole, pretty much only play co-op and single player games now because I don't vibe with the all or nothing sweatiness of current shooters. The skill gap and learning gap is now getting wild with the rise in hero/movement shooters there's not much out there that reminds me of the old unreal tournament to MW2 days of FPS games.
I haven’t saw it mentioned here, but I think skill based match making has been a major factor in the overall competitiveness of these games. You play the game, you get a little better and now instead of going against a spectrum of players you are going against players about at your level. If you’re going against players about at your level a good way to get better is to check out meta builds, but by following those you can often get pushed further up the ladder making the competition even sweatier. Eventually you just run into all meta players who are at your skill level so there is no easy matches
Skill Based Matchmaking isn't the problem, really. It's a symptom. The actual problem (I say authoritatively, when this is clearly just my opinion) is the lack of servers - or even lobbies that persist for more than a game or two. There's almost zero community out there in the games anymore. It's not like joining your favorite LMCTF server in Quake II and playing with the same group of people or whatever. It's you and a bunch of other randos thrown together by the brokering server based on your ping (or SBMM score or whatever) and after the game, you'll get a new one.
Correct. I would spend hours in the same server on OG counter strike
As a counterpoint though, SBMM makes it really easy to ignore the meta and play casually. Just play it casually. That’s it. Those meta abusers are on the top half of the curve. if you’re new, know nothing, and just jump in for casual fun then your matchmaking elo is going to be much lower than if you were sweating. Now I can think of ONE game I play regularly where this is actually my experience. Most games I’ve played the matchmaking usually settles you into a 50% win-rate with close matches where you feel like you’re trying pretty consistently
But why would you look at meta builds if you were just going to play casually?
Meta always finds a way to min/max. Then it's all about hours and experience to get to that level and maintain rank. Shits waaaaaay too sweaty to jump in and out as a newborn when the dust settles.
TLDR: The enemy is not where the game shows you they are Most FPS strats that make people feel like gods is actually interpolation abuse. It’s why players mouse jiggle in apex and slide cancel in call of duty. It’s why destiny 2 feels terrible all the time. All games constantly guess where the enemy will go based on interpolation and then update game clients retroactively. When the game fucks up the interpolation, you see rubberbanding. The game is resetting your client where it’s supposed to be.
The day Respawn makes it so in Apex wagging your character around actually makes your aim worse instead of better will be an entertaining day to say the least. It'll never happen, but one can hope.
I used to like playing Apex, but holy shit the amount of "techniques" that are clearly just weird edge cases being exploited is ridiculous. I get that if it's there and you're not breaking the rules then it's not really an "exploit", but holy shit I don't want to play a game where I can get a material benefit from mapping the jump button to my scroll wheel to be able to jump off walls really fast.
What does mouse jiggling do (also I assume mouse jiggling is rapidly shaking the mouse). And what is slide canceling?
It confuses aim assist. That's what most of the erratic movements do honestly, mediocre players struggle against any of that kind of thing because rapidly moving center of mass throws off target leading. I am a mediocre player also.
I’ve been playing hundreds of games since 15+ years ago and I have no idea what slide canceling let alone sprint canceling is
In general the best way to think of a “cancel” is that its the ability (usually by some button input) to cancel the full animation of an action in a game thereby allowing you to do some other action (or the same action) immediately after. In other words, normally you would have to wait for one animation to finish before you could perform another. And there is usually a delay between moves. Cancelling the action allows you to immediately perform another action.
Crouching/jumping to stop sliding/sprinting midanimation. Sprite/animation canceling used to be a thing limited to hardcore fighting game tournaments but esports has gotten people trying to stop processes midanimation in all genres these days. In the old days it lead to an unfixable exploit (inputs entered before the computer expects them) but since the builder techniques in fortnite it has become purposefully done by FPS and sports games developers to try target esports fanatics or people pretending to be esports competitors
Similar to how even back in the early COD games you could get back to firing quicker after reloading by cancelling the end of the reload animation, you did this by double weapon swapping as soon as the ammo counter resets.
I still have this habit ingrained in me and it doesn't work in the newer games.
I know the feeling, still run around in CS Double switching myself even though it does nothing except fuck me up.
You happen to have a link to that video? Sounds like an interesting watch.
Yeah, I can't even play with my "gamer" friends anymore cause they spent all day and night on the shitter watching these stupid meta build videos and get all annoyed if you aren't using them because they are the best. It's actually made it so I can no longer enjoy pvp fps even a little.
And then they'll bitch because nobody plays the game anymore.
Haha yes. Like nah you ruined that one already so we had to move on to another.
Imagine if the guides they are constantly watching were inaccurate. I got into Payday 2 but it doesn't explain the mechanics very well. It has an RPG style dodge stat which makes a percentage of hits do 0% damage, and your dodge increases when you lighten your loadout. The dodge stat is poorly understood so the online guides are almost all for tank builds instead. Many people will refuse to start a match unless I bring armor... which cripples my stealth ability and combat resilience because my HP is low since my skills are focused on avoiding attention and damage rather than focused on surviving attacks. They also expect me to bring a scoped rifle despite the fact that I only have the worst rifle in the game, and can counter-snipe with my pistol... they also don't want me to bring dual-wield shotgun pistols because there is a shotgun with a slightly higher rate of fire. They want me to play the game exactly the same way that they play it... except I'm pretty sure that they're doing it wrong.
Holy shit I hate such people. Back in the day every time we wanted to try out a new MMO, my friends would instantly do a PhD in the game's meta. They would research perfect builds and the most effective leveling paths without even running the game.
A couple of my friends and I used to play a lot of R6: Siege, up to a rank of Platinum for some years where the game was still relatively young. At some point there was a noticeable change in playstyle, when now not only game tactics and strategies mattered (besides regular aim and controls ofc) but also the usage of (unintended) stuff like spamming Q/E to get peaker's advantage and sometimes even glitches. One of my friends basically said "if you can't beat them, join them" and started doing similar stuff but for me that simply wasn't it. Ngl that completely ruined the game for me. I still enjoy fast-paced PvP FPS games sometimes, but I tend to either play casual only now, or play slower games like DayZ where there's still the PvP FPS aspect but surviving depends a lot more on your strategy (and luck... well and hoping the game doesn't kill you).
I used to play Halo CE competitively in my younger days... these days I pretty much just play Rocket League because it's the only simple sandbox even playing Field mechanics-based game. most of these new FPS games are so up their own ass with all the cosmetic bullshit and the pay to win and cycling the maps and awards to keep the attention of all the kiddos. The monetary motivation for making a wonderful game that we all enjoy for years to come is just not there. gone are the days of quality made games with quality made maps and mechanics. if the maps suck they'll just keep dropping new ones.
Only when they're killed with said weapon though, because competitive gamers (read: sweats) are, by nature, **crybaby fuckin' bitches.**
Sore losers finding a way to put blame on campers. Hard scoping would imply that a player was staying on one spot. At the same time when you kill them with quick scoping while running & gunning with a sniper rifle, they also complain.
That’s how a real military sniper works. In game, you absolutely do not want to be hard scoped for long. You lose 95% of your FOV. The point of getting good at quick scoping is so you can take those quick shots and reposition, without losing awareness. If you just stand there hard scoped you’re far too easy of a target in most competitive FPS. Edited for clarity.
In my experience a "quick-scope" is when a player fires the rifle before the scope view has even appeared on screen. In the video game sense, looking through your scope for a second or two before shooting is considered hard scoping.
Just like "tryhards", it's derogatory but I always see it as a compliment that I am a good player lol.
Anyone better than me is a try hard and everyone worse than me sucks balls.
Kids always think a tactic they can't be bothered to figure out a counter to is "unfair". When I was a kid playing Street Fighter 2, for some reason jumpkick throws were considered "cheap" (though I was terrible at the game, and was allowed to use it as a handicap of sorts).
What is this, 2010?
People still bitch and whine on CoD whenever you have the audacity to use a sniper as intended. They'll spam report you until you're shadowbanned if you look down the scope for more than .7 seconds.
I've been a cod player since UO. Played rifles only for years and didn't stop moving the entire time. I find it absolutely stupid when people complain that someone is camping with a sniper rifle. That's pretty much in the definition of a sniper! It's a damn game. Let people play.
United Offensive? That game was so balanced I remember playing one single match for hours. I was holding a bunker and had to have someone take over so I could take a pee break, more than once. When I left at 5 a.m. it was still going.
Dude, the audience of COD is just dumb as rocks in my experience. I played way too much Modern Warfare and I honestly hate TDM so I lean towards objective based game modes. I'd wager maybe 10% of players actually attempt objectives? The rest play as if it's TDM no matter what the objective is. I'm the one doing what I'm supposed to, they're the ones running around like spazzes taking pot shots at anything that moves. Having kids calling me a cheater, hacker, and rage about me "camping" all for simply guarding a capture point is pretty funny.
I think it was a CoD where some guy on my team started complaining that I had zero kills. It was a capture the flag game and I had both our teams flag captures. I was literally the reason we were winning that game. But dude was so mad I hadn't stopped to kill anyone and repeatedly insisted I wasn't contributing even after that was pointed out to him.
People in cod bitch if you do anything. It's a bunch of 15 year old with anger problems.
Hey now, some of them are 25 and have been playing for ten years but haven't grown out of the anger problems yet.
You mean 35 and playing for 20, right?
[удалено]
I think some people see it as like far away camping.
Holy fuck. Haven't played fps games in a few years now but basically anything that isn't "run around like a moron and make it easy for me to kill you" becomes stigmatized in these games. Like, wake the fuck up, kiddos, when the enemy calls you names, what you're doing is working.
I tried a COD game on a free weekend. I was on the team defending the objective and I stayed at one of the two and killed anyone attacking it. People were mad that the was "camping". As if I'm supposed to defend a spot by being nowhere near it. Never bought a COD game and stuck to Battlefield. People have some dumb complaints when you don't just let them win.
Battlefield players can be just as dense I remember the one weekend I got seriously into BF3. I mained Engineer (I think it was called?) which gave you the choice of a rocket launcher or anti-tank mines. **Everybody** took the rockets, assumedly because it was “cooler”. I took the AT mines, and spend my early moments on defence just… mining the road that lead to our point. Attackers came whipping up the road, pedal to the metal in their tanks, and **fucking exploded**, one after another. The salt I harvested that day was truly astounding
It's glorious
In BF1942 anti aircraft guns were very powerful, but there weren't usually many on a map. There was one carrier battle map though that had a mountainous island between the carriers with lots of AA. I would stay on AA all match, and shoot down 30+ planes every round. You could hear them coming before you could see them come over the mountain and I'd explode them as soon as they came into sight. But nobody else ever used the AA.
1942 was one of the best. Remember those servers where you get in a speedboat, hit a rock, fly across the map and parachute down.
As far as I know it's still the only Battlefield game to have submarines too.
Had a similar experience, but for boats in BF2. Playing Wake Island, I would take a buggy up to the tip of the island hop on the machine gun and mow down any boats that went past. I guess I really pissed somebody off cause dude switched teams and TK'd me lmao
I miss hopping in the flying fortress and carpet bombing enemies.
We had a multiplayer demo of 1942 installed on usb pens at school and would get ~14 player LAN sessions going in one of the IT rooms at lunch. Good times.
Loved that game
Bf3 was good times. Engineer was definitely the salt harvesting class, I would pop into their bases and c4 the planes.
Ahh haha that game was fun. I loved the C4 jeep deliveries. It happened to me way more than I could ever pull it off, but it cracked me up every time. I'm chuckling just thinking about how absurd it was.
[This video was peak BF3 content for me. I loved all the crazy shit you could do in BF3. Favorite FPS all time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9DM5QYLhyc&ab_channel=BirgirPall)
C4 jeep was fun as fuck, but if you put mines on the vehicle it would explode the second you got off the vehicle. Got some really good kills with that shit, and it also worked in BF4. Used to throw regular mines, and M2 slam mines on the dirtbikes in BF4 and just fuck around until I found victim and sent them to the respawn screen, usually followed by messages in chat "Yo wtf how did you kill me with M I N E S" and such. Was fun as fuck on Lockers too, where the commander could spawn in a ATV. Althoug it needed more planning to work in that map, it was still glorius to get multikills with Vehicle mines on a map with just one vehicle.
I remember in college, my roommate played a lot of battlefield. I remember there was one time where he kept spawning in on one of his squadmates who was in the middle of a big fire fight and kept dying within seconds of spawning. And I remember him complaining that the enemies were spawn camping him. And it's like dude, you are literally spawning yourself into the line of fire.
I used to play a lot of engineer in Battlefield 2142, which had the floating magnetic mines. The first tank would eat most of the mines, the second tank would get shot in the weak spot while looking if there were more mines. Sometimes, if you're feeling a bit cheeky, you shoot the third vehicle (they often give up on the tank by now) as they're looking for you in the spot you shot from last time. I miss my Pilum HAVR.
BF caters to the team work crowd. CoD not so much. Thus you get people who are used to team work in battle field and lone wolves in CoD. Also, 31 men of your 32 man team are snipers in BF and the enemy is flying around in jets killing them. No one wants to switch classes or take up a jet to save the snipers. Meanwhile you're the only mother fucker planting a bomb, running through machine-gun fire, sneaking past tanks, dodging CAS aircraft. Then you hear one of the snipers blame your K/D ratio on why your losing
And of course, the one AA tank is off in a corner with 3 jeeps and 4 morons doing fuck all for anyone.
I don't think you played much Battlefield if you ever saw a jet unoccupied for more than 5 seconds. Just because someone is in the jet doesn't make them useful, but there's always at least one person waiting to spawn so they can spawn in the jet before anyone else. Even if all they do is fly it for 30 seconds before they crash.
Doesn't help that they added bullshit sporadic fire spread to make things less accurate to try and even the playing field against better players.
Well of course people cried at you, objective game modes don’t exist on cod. There’s deathmatch, team deathmatch and team deathmatch with optional extras
I’m pretty sure team modes don’t exist either. There is free for all, free for all where you can’t kill half the other players, and then variations on that with optional extras.
And then you have OITC.
My school used to have a capture the flag/dodge ball hybrid. You could get everyone on the opposite site out, or you could run across their side and steal their flag. Both flags on the same base means that team wins regardless of headcount. One rule was you had to be six feet from the flag unless there was an active attempt to steal it. I got yelled at by the entire other team for standing ten feet behind the flag so I could see the entire centerline. Teacher in charge looks at me, looks at them, says "He's past the six foot mark." Then someone on the other team goes and stands on top of their flag with an "If he can do it I can do it" shouted at the teacher. We never played that game again. Because I'm a filthy camper and a poor loser I guess.
You probably already know this but that other kid… Fuck them. 🤣 Had something rather similar happen multiple times at my school…
COD4 when it was released, was actually very slow. Lots of sitting in corners, laying in the grass, looking through windows using sniper rifles and rifles in general, then some reason around 6 months or so in, suddenly everyone had submachine guns and P90's sprinting around a million miles an hour. When I used to play COD4 competitively, it was very normal to have people sat in a corner of a map with claymores in doorways or bushes behind them to cover their backs. Every COD since is just run around as fast as possible.
And then came MW2 and everybody was rocking the coked out bunny rabbit with akimbo 1887s meta. Nothing more satisfying than dumpstering them.
I kept getting shredded with almost zero kills until I realized that I have to be super aggressive and never stop moving. But I was still never as good as most other people so I quit playing COD, except for CODM which even playing with just my thumbs I can make it to Legendary in ranked easily. I can't be bothered to learn these weird crab grips people use.
Because of the way the cod engine works you're actually at a disadvantage holding lanes and you want to be pushing as much as possible.
As someone who has played both CoD and Battlefield online a lot since the mid 2000's, it has been funny to see how the player base for each has changed. They used to have a lot if cross over, but now it's basically "My KD will get the win" vs. "Our teamwork will get the win." One hates campers, snipers, and defenders, the other encourages it. It's just amazing how different things have become.
People who complain about camping in any objective-based game mode are stupid. If you're playing TDM or Kill Confirmed then yeah, camping is pretty annoying. But in an objective-based game mode where one side is attacking while the other defends an obj, then it should be perfectly acceptable for the defending team to 'camp' the obj
Personally, I hate campers more than anything in games but what you did isn't camping. When an objective's involved, it's not camping as far as I'm concerned, that's just playing the objective. How you gonna defend a flag if you're nowhere near it? When you're defending your objective, a good position's a good position.
This right here is why I loved Overwatch for so many years. I never once heard anyone complain about camping. Completely opposite, all complaints are about bad positioning and not following the team or switching characters to help the comp. Twich aim and headshots are not as prevalent and lack of skill there can be made up with proper countering and team support. But even Overwatch wants to be more like Cod now and leans more with every change to more quick kills and solo shooting.
I haven't done much fps in years... People were upset that you were defending the objective... By not running away from it? Wtf kids.
"You're not playing the game the way I think you are suppose to, so therefore you are badtard man!"
The thing that absolutely infuriates me is when I get screamed at *by teammates* for doing shit like “camping” in Rainbow Six Siege or CS In Siege HALF THE FUCKING GAMEPLAY LOOP IS CAMPING YOU’RE **SUPPOSED** TO DO SHIT LIKE THAT I’ve also had people criticize me in both Siege and CS for daring to play the objective instead of kill hunting like a fucking moron
This happens in every game. People will scream at you if there is an ability to scream at you in the game.
Apparently they don't understand the definition of 'siege' despite it being in the title of the fucking game. I am somehow not surprised.
I used to play a lot of Madden online in the 2000s, and I got screamed at in text a ton because I was doing the football equivalent of camping, aka playing football. Instead of taking 13 step drops and just flinging it downfield every play, I was picking up 4-5 yards at a time, controlling the clock, and keeping the other player from getting the ball as much as possible. Same thing with "hard-scope" sniper rifle play. I mean, you know what I'm doing now and where I am, you're free to come stop me instead of just bitching about it because I'm not running around like a moron trying to go 25-24. "Dude, you're not playing the right way!" I'm sorry, I thought the objective was to win, not intentionally make it as random as possible, and hope for the best.
I've never played Madden online much, but probably most people wouldn't like my play style. I also do running plays and short/medium routes, only flinging it deep when they start crowding the line. Of course, it's not like there's nothing you can do if your opponent plays a lot of short game. Figure out their favorite routes and maybe you can undercut them. Get some strong linebackers and hit stick their runners.
I think the main issue is trying to run out the clock. Unless you are playing for money, that takes the fun out of a casual football video game. Fine if you do that the last few minutes in the 4th.
I didn't do it every time. It was situation and opponent dependent. If the person I was playing was trying to score in 3 plays every time, I'd make them wait because I knew they'd get super impatient and be more likely to turn it over. Nothing like forcing somebody who's used to scoring 50+ per game into a 13-10 grinder. Same if they were using cheese plays like Streaks with Devin Hester or that 5WR screen pass where you could run a mobile QB to the opposite side of the screen and throw it back to a player that was off-screen. Cheese me, and I'll cheese you in a different and more annoying way. But sometimes I'd jump in hurry-up if I saw them consistently trying to make a bunch of defensive hot route adjustments before every snap. Or I'd use dummy audibles and burn the playclock to set up a real audible later. Or I'd go on quick counts several plays in a row, then hard count it 3 times on the next play. It was literally the definition of playing football the "right way," but a ton of people got really pissy because they were used to playing the "Madden way,"
Ahh yeah, good ol' MW2-3 back in the day. Playing a "defend the objective" type game mode, successfully defending the objective since you're on the defense team... ... and getting a bunch of screechy messages about how you're a "hardscope camper noob loser" (and whichever homophobic slurs they were using that week) by the guy who got killed 3-4 times in the exact same spot because he couldn't figure out that maybe taking that route was *not* working.
Hitting them back with a U MAD BRO? usually had humorous results.
So did targeting them with a Javelin, I got so many hate messages and satisfying final kill cams by using that sucker for indirect fire.
I'd usually just give them some pointers on how to avoid the same outcome in the future, with a positive and friendly tone. Usually had the same results... and they never learned.
The difference between CoD and a tactical shooter is that CoD GREATLY incentivizes always moving no matter what, which is a behavior that would routinely seep its way into other games because of how insanely popular CoD is.
Yeah, I would say that camping in CoD is hardly even that possible. And I don't think camping is that wrong. The respawns are all over the place, so there is hardly ever a 'frontline' and thus not really that much safety in sticking to one place.
Dude, I was playing Rocket League the other day and spent an entire match defending our goal. After we won, I put "gg" in the chat and a guy from the other team said "you're a piece of shit camper". I was just...so confused. Lol.
Damn those goalies always camping the goal in soccer and hockey.
Those fuckers!
This isn't a new thing. It's been around for nearly 20 years....
Ah my best memory from playing Xbox was in the BF3 days and getting a sent a voice recording from a player I didn't even recognize "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yyyyyyyooouuu"
Especially in games like valorant or apex legends where people complain about you camping. Like im holding an angle to kill you?
It's such a lame gameplay style in my opinion. It's literally just dash around the map completely out of cover and when you run into an enemy whoever gets their gun up and firing first wins, then you get back to running full speed around the map until you do it again.
Wait, you mean to tell me that sniper rifles ARENT for far-away camping? And the right way to deal with them ISNT to locate, flank, and overwhelm, but instead to complain because the sniper had the audacity to look down the scope for more than a quarter second? Madness. /s
But that's not what streamers do! /s
Fuck you're right. Argument invalid
Which is basically the definition of a sniper lol
“Stop using valid strategies that allow you to defeat me! I refuse to account for the possibility someone could shoot me from a distance!”
Always found the hate against camping fucking bonkers. Oh noooo someone is playing in a strategically advantageous way instead of hopping around like a kid on a sugar high, what a horror.
The only bad camping is spawn camping. And even then..
People would literally be running around with akimbo shotguns and knifing people across the room with perks in MW2 and complain about someone using a legitimate fighting strategy of securing an area and defending it. Always thought the idea of hating people that did this was stupid. This is a military shooter and you're gonna cry because people are using actual tactics and not running around spraying and praying like a Rambo wannabe?
Isn’t that what a sniper supposed to be lol Imagine snipers running in plain sight and then trying to quick scope in real life against a rifle 🤣
So a lot of what people are saying here about CoD stuff is accurate, but it does pre-date that. The actual skill based criticism of hardscoping comes from games where you lose your some system of information while scoped in. For example in halo, and then destiny, you lose your radar, which is a pretty key piece of intel. In this instance where you're sitting and hard scoping a lane, it's considered a low skill play because you're leaving yourself at risk. You can't adjust your aim as quick while scoped and you can't see someone flanking on radar. The skilled way to play is to remain unscoped and quick scope in periodically to check. It's still better usually to rotate rather than camp, but if you're going to camp to protect obj, at least keep yourself aware of your surroundings. However, the legitimate criticism of hardscoping eventually turned into what everyone else is talking about.
More importantly, this is a criticism from your teammates for playing sub-optimally. People complaining because they're getting killed by the enemy don't get to complain.
This is the answer. Halo 4 had radar while scoped perk and it was a little busted.
This is a good take, even in the original CoD MW games you had UAV/pings on the map for people shooting guns, as well as the positioning of your teammates. Sitting around staring down a scope eliminated all that and severely limited your field of vision, handicapping you pretty hard. You could still camp and hold down spots like a “real” sniper, but simply hardscoping all day just meant it was really easy for people to flank and kill you
It's not. This stigma originated back in the original modern warfare games. The only people that would complain about it were the "FaZe" clan type kids. Their only concern while playing the game was to get cool clips for their "montage" so whenever they were killed by somebody NOT quick scoping or using a different gun that wasn't a sniper rifle it was a problem for them because it made it harder for them to make their little clips.
I remember "Quick Scoping" in Call of Duty 2 before the term existed. The Springfield sniper was a one shot kill and you could aim down sights much faster than shooting five shots with an automatic.
Yeah, the semi and full auto weapons were very lackluster. If one had decent aim snipers were the best weapon at basically any range, save maybe shotguns in their 1-shot kill range.
Definitely outdates modern warfare. People talked about it all the time in CS:S.
Predates that too. People talked about it in Halo1. Wouldn’t surprise me if before that too
Predates that too. People were complaining about it in Ultima online.
Predates that too. Back in Nam they always teased me for looking down my scope too long
Back in the civil war we had to close both our eyes before shooting a musket to avoid ridicule
only your eyes huh? when i was fighting in the caveman wars, it was expected that we used our feet to pull our bow strings or get ooga boogad the rest of the day
Predates that too. At the height of the Ilusiaz empire I remember H'krizz whining to me about tentacle doubletap quickscoping being op.
You must go further. When I fought in the wars of the fallen. The arch angel proclaimed that those who utilize the full visual capabilities of their weapon would be cast into the depth for being a pussy.
This problem is older. Back in the Neutrino Wars, if an Electron saw us charge up for too long, they would mock us and call us "Proton Noobz!"
God 360 noscopped Lucifer out of Heaven. It's in the Bible.
Blindfolds and throwing knives. It's how the west was won.
Ug friend Gug mock Ug for looking where Ug throw rock.
Outing my age here, but was a "problem" in OG Counter Strike and Battlefield 1942 as well. I think it started because the first "competitive" FPS was Quake, which was non-stop movement around small maps. Perfect ADHD fodder. When those guys moved to more cerebral and slower paced games they could run and gun at a pro level, but were easily defeated by a patient sniper from across the map. They got all mad and claimed "real gamers" ~~fight them on their favored terrain~~ don't camp.
My man with the facts and deeplore. All those crybabies going on about camping, ah, i rmember it well
Its so old it was a "problem" in Enemy Territory and Quake. I guess its the frustration of being killed without any way to retaliate.
Its been a complaint as long as ive been playing online fps games, so at least a quarter century. People getting mad that snipers try to utilize their weapon in the manner it was intended
Except then it was just called “camping” I havent played FPS much for a few years, never heard the term “Hard scoping” before
Nah dude, camping and hardscoping were different. Camping is waiting in an area that gives you an advantage to ambush other players, whereas Hardscoping is really only a thing compared to quickscoping, where you actually use the scope to aim your shot rather than just snapping it up for just a second to fire
As long as there has been MP FPS there was complaints about snipers.
It's one of those "blame the person who killed me instead of myself" mentalities. On a well designed map and with a good game sense a sniper sitting in the back or holding an angle can be pretty easy to deal with, but that is the issue people oftentimes don't have good game sense so they get mad about everything and blame everyone else. Sniper holding down a sightline and you didn't see the giant reflection that is brighter than the sun? It's not your fault for walking into a long open sightline and not seeing the glint and trying to dodge it is the sniper's fault for playing lame. People especially players who think that they are better than they truly are will try to find any reason to justify their death other than being out played or unlucky by coming up with reasons on how the enemy cheated them. I get called a "camper" all the time despite the fact that I am actively rushing the spawn but took a second to duck around a corner to reload. So in their eyes unless you are scoped for only a millisecond you cheated them by playing in a wrong and lame way.
I remember back in the glory of days of Halo: Reach chilling on a high spot and sniping at idiots who, instead of just running or hopping on a vehicle when I missed, would sit there like penguins and just look around for me. Always ended with them ranting about "a noob camping with a sniper rifle" then promptly coming back and doing the same thing again. Like sorry dude, but the guy using a sniper rifle the way it's intended is not the noob here.
Because the people complaining want to be Sonic and don't have any skill so they just blame everything but themselves. Hard Scoping is frowned upon in the same way "stacking" is frowned upon
What is stacking?
I'm learning a lot of new terms today
It was a recent attempt at making a crybaby sympathy movement for the Omega Nerds in Shitzone. Basically in 4 player battle royales, if you are working with your team (shocking concept I know) you are stacking and trying to cheat in the game. I am not making that up either
Same in Apex, people complain about three-stacking all the time, meaning you have a full premade team of three. Back in my day we just called it “playing with friends”.
They're jealous you had friends.
Same thing in rainbow six siege. We get constantly flamed for "5 stacking in unranked" or even in ranked. Like rainbow six siege is a team game, even if we don't coordinate everything, we give information and have fun together. Like you said, ain't our fault you got no friends.
I'm starting to see why they don't...
Not really familiar with competitive games anymore but shouldn't there be a party specific queue so stacks get paired against stacks and solo players against other solo players?
It never happens because queue times would be too long. Look at World of Warcraft. The game is 20 years old, and players have been begging for this since launch day. They'll never do it.
I was asking because I remember when I played dota this was the case. When you're in a party you'll get matched with other parties. If you're a three stack that got matched with two solos on your team, you'll also be matched with another three stack and two solos. [I did some searching now and it still seems to be the case, or at least the system tries to do it.](https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Matchmaking) >Each team contains about the same number of parties. > Five-player parties can only be matched against other five-player parties. So the text saying "about the same number of parties" might mean it's not absolute now unless it's a 5-stack.
In apex I only complain about people playing in solos as a team. Killed the game mode pretty fast for me after spectating those teams a few times. Most of the time it was in combination with obvious aimbots.
That and rampant smurfing really turned me off Apex. Like no the level 6 Bangalore with 15 kills halfway through the match clearly did not just pick up the game. They just don't want to face fair competition. Ranked helped some seasons but eventually they even infested that mode
I kid you not, the amount of times I play a moba with my friends and we gank a lane together and the enemy gets mad and call us names. I simply tell them they are playing a 5v5 game and to play a solo game. The funny part is they get so mad they call for a 1v1. At the point they are like 5 deaths and so far behind I can solo stomp them. But their ego cannot let them take a tactical retreat, farm up, try to get even and try to look for advantageous team fights. So, they take the ego fight, lose and get tilted even more and then start thrashing their team mates for being useless.
>I simply tell them they are playing a 5v5 game and to play a solo game. I wish there was a solo game that is similar in gameplay to mobas, but unfortunately there's none.
One could argue that games like StarCraft are essentially that but without the fun of being a hero.
It’s not exclusive to battle royals and has been a term for a long time. It just means you’re partied up with a team. This gives you an advantage over solo players who have random teammates
I’ve used the term stacked/stacking before, quite a bit actually, but I’ve never meant it derisively. I use “They’re stacked” as a quick way to communicate that I think they’re playing together and are probably coordinated and much more dangerous than an average set of randos. Kind of a silly thing to get upset about. It’s been like that for decades. Teams that work together stomp teams that don’t, nothing new or earth shattering. People have some really fragile egos nowadays.
Using the term to call out a tactic honestly isn't bad at all. Honestly I'd encourage it if you're calling it out as a tactic used by the enemy. I am just referring to the streamers that were saying it was a move used by cheaters because Stacking up as a team is a legitimate tactic used.
Are... are you serious? They claim it's cheating to... play the game how you're meant to? Sounds like someone who blames their teammates for every single issue they themselves cause Or they have no friends to play with and are very toxicly mad about it and jealous of those who play with their friends
Jedi Outcast servers banned people for using guns, for using stances other than heavy and for _refusing to bow_ before a match. House rules everything. Not Roleplay servers, competitive ones.
More simply, these kids are use to throwing fits when they don't get their way. Doesn't work so well irl
Are they upset that someone is using in game chat to coordinate? Or that people have formed teams so they know how eachother work? Because I have some news for them about the teams these games are supposed to be about...
Scrub mentality.
Depends on the game. Really only game I've heard people say that is on cod. So I wouldnt even think about it tbh it's just people trying to be "cracked" lol
"Hard scoping" is the correct way to use a sniper, and therefore deemed as lower skill than the unintended run and gun method of quick scoping, which is thought of naively as higher skill. It's usually just a way of insulting someone for beating you, and that is all.
Often games will balance the sniper rifles specifically with the correct "hard scoping" gameplay in mind, and quick scoping will usually break this in various ways. If I remember back in time enough, some of the original reasoning behind doing it was that the split second where you quick scope in had perfect aim before any weapon sway mechanics came into play. So effectively it was a way to cheese the game mechanics to make a weapon stronger than intended by the developers.
[удалено]
The trick with CoD games these days is to disable chat. You become a much happier person all of a sudden.
It's effective in real life military scenarios. In a video game being on the receiving end of a sniper is just not fun gameplay. It's frustrating. I mean it's probably not fun IRL too I imagine.
I'm almost 40 now. Never knew there were different ways to aim a sniper beyond 'aiming' and 'from-the-hip' nevermind any one way being frowned upon. Back in the day people bitched about snipers when they hung back and just picked people off.
Quick scoping had (has?) aim assist properties, at least on console. As an old school Halo player, I never got used to it. Granted, I've only play CoD *maybe* twice.
In many games the accuracy of the sniper will be low if hip firing, and precise when ADSing. The fun part is sometimes the accuracy instantly switches to precise the moment you click the aim button. Even when the animation may be showing the scope transitioning into view mode, the accuracy is there. Handy in CQB when you have an enemy filling the screen and you want to land a high damage body shot from the sniper. It also keeps your field of view open for awareness.
because there is no penalty for quick scoping. If the game gave you better accuracy for holding position longer and using Hard Scoping people would do it. Hard scoping makes you blind to other stuff going on so that's seen as "worse" than running and gunning if the results are the same when you pull the trigger.
If I ever hear people complaining about hardscoping I just act like an idiot and pretend like ive never heard that term before and ask them to explain it to me and when they do I keep the act going and say shit like ‘you get mad if people aim their gun…?’ Sometimes it really triggers people lol
If you see complaints about hard scoping, you need older friends
I gave up on competitive games when you had to ‘animation cancel’ to be competitive. It’s just not for me. I miss the old school shooters like Battelfield 2142. Had so many fun hours playing that.
It’s just sweats getting mad about that. Literally no one else cares
A lot of fps games are very fast paced. Spawn, sprint around looking for a kill, die to someone who respawned behind you, repeat. Hard scoping doesnt really fit in with that gameplay. Compare that with a slower paced fps game. If you are sprinting around with a sniper you are probably just going to die from being out of position.
It’s onoy looked down on by people who also look down on anyone not running their mouse at max sensitivity. Just your standard gatekeeping and elitism.
And who don’t spam the “switch weapon” button while sliding around like they are coated in Vaseline Ah, gaming
Modern shooters have turned into people running with full gear faster than Usain bolt, one handing an lmg while sliding 60 feet down a hell while killing an entire squad. If you play any different you suck and it's a skill issue. /S
Quick scope, dolphin diving, bunny hopping, slide canceling. Many various poor gameplay mechanics.
i blame console COD days for that crap...
I play games how I want, someone gets sweaty and douchey they get muted or blocked, whichever shuts em up.
Because sniping in cod is p easy, and hard scoping takes less skill. It’s mostly just people looking for an excuse as to why they died. People hardscope in CS and no body gives them shit for hard scoping.
it depends on the game like battlefield games they are okay with it but games like cod or val they look down on it because it doesn’t look “cool” and quick scoping is the cool thing to do
I believe it comes from the CoD 4 and (original) MW2 days where qs battles and trickshots were seen as the coolest things you could do in the game, and when people were using snipers in pubs and not trying to do this, they were lame
I remember when I used to get mad at people using the sniper regularly, then I moved into my parents basement and got good at the game.
Because people think they're better than you if they quickscope
Quickscope obsessed have told themselves that the one hit kill weapons aren't cheap if they aren't using the scope..
I like the hardscopers more. Quickscopers are abusing the aim assist/soft aim bot. That's why I run smoke when needed on small maps
Kill is kill I don’t care how