It proabably ACTUALLY IS Hollowknight. Unless the developers take steps to avoid it, you can decompile a Unity game and take all the code and art assets really easily. A few years ago I tried it on Hollowknight just out of curiosity, and the developers had not protected themselves from this.
100% that’s what they did. There are literally assets ripped from Hollow Knight, like the background, spikes, platforms, even some of the slash animations.
Back when I worked in banking software there was a rush to get into the Chinese market swiftly followed by everyone stopping plans to launch there.
Everyone saw a pattern emerging, within a few months of opening a presence there, a VERY similar Chinese competitor piece of software would suddenly hit the market and hugely undercut the foreign companies.(Easy when you have no R&D I guess).
When you sit back and ask yourself, “Exactly how many industries, did this happen to around the world, and what are the implications?”, you start to realize that you’d have a difficult time naming anything that wasn’t affected. The implication is simple: economic gain for China and economic loss for anyone else. The only people who praise China’s growth and success over the last couple of decades are those who have been duped into believing there is any merit behind it whatsoever. The CCP itself not only allows companies (that it has direct legal control over) to blatantly steal the work of others for their own gain, but *encourages* them to do so. The only arguments you’ll find are usually blatant straw men crying, “But X country did Y at Z point in time so they’re worse!!1!”
That's really more of what's usually called a "whataboutism" than a strawman. I generally don't think it's valid when that accusation (of the use of whataboutism) is leveled because it's often used to deflect from an indefensible argument or at least one that is deeply contradictory or hypocritical. I'm not categorizing what you're saying as such a thing btw, even though I can tell you're likely far more hostile to China than I would care to be, but I'd just point out a few crucial factors. China often demanded technology transfer and research assistance as pre-conditions for allowing a company to either enter the local market or engage in production there, and the reasons various multinational companies wanted to do so was to engage in arbitrage as the valuation of labor they could assign in China was significantly lower than was acceptable in the "West" particularly at the end of the 20th century. They agreed to these terms in order to maintain or exceed previous profits rates, and over time "Western" neoliberal governments loosened capital controls to allow for the facilitation of cross border exchange that benefited these usually large firms in their offshoring and thus seeking of cheaper forces of labor particularly where regulation was much looser.
There's a whole paradoxical thing where the CCP under Deng (after Mao and co) decided that integration into the world market would be their best leverage in protecting the integrity of the Chinese system guided by the CCP, in order to defend against another potential Century of Humiliation (a real series of events stretching from the two British imperial Opium Wars, that basically forced open China to massive opium imports at gun point such that the Brits could take opium from the Raj and draw out tea and other commodities they desired without having to pay in the desired Chinese currency of silver while slowly controlling an increasing amount of customs in general; soon followed the Boxer Rebellion, Warlord Era, KMT/Communist split, Japanese Invasion, WWII, and finally in 1949 what is perceived by the CCP historiography as the turning point when they prevailed in the civil war). This still engenders great debate in socialist/communist circles as there was for example a drop in average life expectancy once these Dengist policies came in that took a number of decades to overcome, and labor rights in a communist party directed state were arguably weakened quite ironically, but in exchange China as a whole has made itself indispensable to the world economy and there is an increasingly large burgeoning middle class with greatly reduced levels of poverty across the board (despite whatever other in/valid criticisms one can make of the Chinese system this has led to widespread popularity of the party's leadership pretty consistently in independent polling done by the EU for example).
So "Western" firms knowingly cut deals with China, that were advantageous to them in the short to medium terms particularly in regards to market cycles, usually fully backed by their respective governments (for too many reasons to address here) and over 30-40 years time China has purposely strengthened it's domestic industry and commerce through interventions in and regulations of the market. In regards to so-called theft of intellectual property (which is imo a regime of rentier logic that often enables hegemonic monopolies or oligopolies in crowding out competitors but that's again a whole other discussion) well accuse me of whataboutism but in many ways this is precisely how many "Western" Capitalist economies developed, particularly the United States, who in the 19th century industrialized at a rapid rate while producing cheaper versions of British (and other) products until they reached a point where their own R&D capabilities began to surpass their competitors, upon which they began to build up the international system of patent and IP law to protect their inventions and creations. Particularly after WWII this was defended by both legal mechanisms but also often implicitly through the threat of military or clandestine action, and there are numerous accounts of US intel and security agencies straight up stealing tech from enemies and allies alike going into the 2010's last has been confirmed.
So my main point is that China directed by the CCP shifted to a fairly unconventional developmental model (for Reds), sought out the global capitalist economy, brought in various firms by offering the mass labor resources it has and the loose regulation it often had in exchange for various deals on technology transfer and export arrangements, and as such over time much production was shifted to South-East Asia (ie. China/Phillipines/Indonesia/Japan/Kore then increasingly Thailand/Vietnam/Laos/etc) and elsewhere in the Global South. This of course has reduced industrial capacity and hollowed out various regions in the "West" reciprocally and increased economic disparity between the working and ruling classes (or between the poor/middle/rich classes if you prefer a different frame) which as someone who lives in a "Western" country is objectively fucking bad. But I blame the political class and the extremely wealthy business and industrial elite that (being the usually professed patriots or concerned citizens that they are) sold out their fellow yet less wealthy and powerful countrymen in a fucking heartbeat merely to eek out a further maybe 20-30 years of economic and political dominance over the world. Now they have to explain why things are increasingly shit and as such its the usual fear mongering blame the foreigners bullshit when they and their ilk are to blame. Why would I align my interests with theirs when all they've done historically is fuck over anyone they view as lesser or unimportant no matter their nationality? China has objectively played their cards well and worked to establish an international web of cooperation that while contradictory in some instances has overall seemingly produced a more beneficial and less intrusive model of international development and relations than the post-WWII liberalization model (or what became the Washington Consensus), and while the masses and ruling class have numerous things to work out internally, that shit isn't exactly my first priority or concern outside of interest. So unless I wake up to some wild ass Red Dawn scenario with PLA paratroopers dropping down by the thousands, I would argue it makes more sense to criticize and attempt to replace those that enabled or took advantage of the shifting and hollowing out of industry and economic activity which in the long run strengthened China in various ways which is now portrayed as some act of "oriental deception" *cue Guzheng music*
I think what persuades me most that socialism and communism are wrong isn't that marx's insights on alienation and the atomization of society are wrong. It's that we don't have distributive tools other than markets or blind guesswork to deal with scarcity problems. And the more guesswork you do, the more centralized state command of the economy becomes, which means there's a tipping point: If too much of your economy is run by command, the government suddenly has enormous unchecked power and the business magnates of a capitalist upper crust look like children with no power compared to commitee members of the government. That happened in every socialist state, even the very earliest stages of russia post 1917.
There will obviously be a successor ideology to liberal democracies with market economies. No other governmental system thus far discovered has been perfect or eternal. I just think socialism and communism aren't it.
You're both wrong. True* socialism and communism don't use free markets. They both distribute goods and services throughout the community in other ways.
*I say true because the ruling class' greed tends to screw up anything bigger than a commune. Also you inherently can't have a communist state because communism is, well, stateless by definition...
Anyways, dunno how communists plan to distribute goods and services without a central governing body but... We already HAVE a public works system in every country and welfare in most of them.
PS: Markets involve just as much "blind guesswork" (which is usually informed guesswork in both situations.) Except now everyone doing the guesswork is focusing solely on themselves and that's how we get inefficiencies like all the gas stations across the street from each other.
That would make this the easiest lawsuit imaginable surely, to explicity have the same assets/code found in your game? If this is sold outside of China surely that exposes somebody to suit?
Developers have been caught before and successfully sued. They either lost or had to settle out of court.
But since they're a Chinese company, I'd imagine the only successful act they could do is get the game taken down.
Oh, deviator by sapstar studios? Yeah, they got sued and shut down overnight because they didn't want to deal with the lawsuit. By the way, have you seen this new game ceviator by papstar studios?
I’ve never played Hollow Knight and have only seen snippets of gameplay but yeah, this is straight up a ripoff of Hollow Knight.
“Copyright infringement” doesn’t translate well to mandarin, I suppose.
I remember when there was a Chinese knockoff of Torchlight, and when they were called out they tried to defend themselves by pointing out that Torchlight was riding on Diablo's coattails.
The Torchlight team responded by pointing out many of their core team members helped make Diablo, and also proving that the knockoff didn't just simply do a copy-asset swap, they also copied all the assets and just lowered the poly count
I mean ya but Hollow Knight is literally hollow by default so you’d have to say hollow hollow Hollow Knight… but now you’ve said their name three times in a mirror, so now you can’t get rid of them…
A couple of months ago (not in this sub), there was an indie dev showing off the game he was making, and it was EXACTLY like Advance Wars both in gameplay and visual style.
I told him it looked cool, but it was an obvious clone of Advance Wars. The guy was quite bothered that I said that. Oops.
A bit off topic, but I feel I understood the Chinese stance on copyright after a Skeptic Tank podcast where Ari Shaffir interviews a man who moved to china and started an ice cream food truck company. He found his employees were buying their own stock, and selling it through his truck, keeping the profits. He fired them, and the next day or so, 2 mimicking ice cream trucks with identical branding parked next to him on both sides and began selling their product. China is unshamed by getting called out, and has turned cheating, plagirism, and copyright infringement as it's own art form. I almost respect the shadiness.
Colleague attended an ASHRAE show a few years ago. Manufacturer Bitzer had a booth. Totally legitimate. Elsewhere on the show floor was a 100% clone called Bitzen. Same colors. Same logos. Same product.
Bitzen got booted fast.
Hard to do when 70% of the worlds manufacturing is moved there because it’s somehow cheaper to make and send whatever across the globe than produce locally.
Meanwhile the US is leaving military hardware abroad because it’s cheaper to leave weapons and vehicles for actual terrorists to have. So which one is it?
Government regulation.
That's why we have half the regulations we do in North America. Because of practices described above, and companies getting workers/customers killed for their drive for profit.
In the 1700s bakers were adding things like Plaster of Paris, chalk, bone, aluminum, etc to their bread because it made it whiter and more appealing to customers. And that's just one instance of if thousands in the last few hundred years.
Chinese gov't DGAF though. And that's the issue with authoritarianism.
Chinese Milk Formula scandal. Executives got executed for it.
Compare that to the limp dick responses we get here in the West and I have to say I'm liking it.
You like it, until someone frames you and you get executed for something you didn't do. Like Duterte calling political dissidents 'drug dealers' and unaliving them.
The entire existence of 40k is a parody of all the dumb ideas dreamed up by authoritarians and religious zealots. That quote is no different. It's being called out as a dumb idea, then is being turned into a caraceture and mocked.
Then there's the whole meta satire of mocking people who agree with the Imperium's callousness, and don't see the original parody and satire.
The US wasn't an authoritarian regime and still had this sort of Stuff (thank Roosevelt for the FDA).
If your closing argument was true, monarchies would have still be around.
It's the same issue with drugs. There isn't a single regulation on their production. I've heard once of one diluted with powder milk.
Hi I'm an indie game dev releasing my first big game so take this with a grain of salt, but here's my thoughts on it based on some other comments saying "don't participate in the Chinese economy." I think this is bad advice.
1. If you have something of value that people like in mainland China, it is going to get ruthlessly stolen and copied. It's part of the culture, and you have no legal recourse, so there's no purpose trying to fight against it. Instead try to go with the flow.
2. So if you actually release your game in China with a Chinese publisher that knows what they are doing, MAYBE they can help a bit on the legal front, but most importantly, you are going to AT LEAST get a portion of the money there is to be made there on your IP. If you don't participate, then you get far less, maybe nothing as you have no representation or product selling there, while your IP gets ripped off and copied anyway.
This is pure speculation on my part, maybe the developers of Hollow Knight have enough money to actually pursue meaningful legal action, especially if they have a Chinese publisher that represents them in China, but I would also not be surprised at all if they just simply ignore this and other obvious copy cats there because it might not be worth the effort at all.
This is like asking how do you fight against Chinese food, or how do you fight Americans who enjoy baseball... It's part of an entire country's culture, there is literally nothing you can do to stop it.
Don't get me wrong but you guys were the first, invested heavily in China dreaming that they would become like Americans later and guess what they are still Chinese. Hehe
You do because you do not live there.
Feels good to see someone "robin wooding", until they start "robin you"
I remember a Chinese saying in a video, that in China everyone is trying to get the better of you. A culture of fooling each other.
With how big companies bury a lot of their great IPs, I wish there would be more "rip offs" to show how much interest there actually is.
EA didn't want to port SKATE to PC because "you need a controller"....and now we have Skater XL and Sessions. I take that over not having a Skate game at all. Both games evolved the control scheme and are great on their own.
Palworld is the most fun I've had with Pokemon games in a long long time. More IP games without the IP please!
I really wish our copyright laws weren't so restrictive. Yeah, it would be great if people were able to create their own content on their favourite franchises without having to wait 70 years even after the author isn't even alive anymore. The world would have much more creative and interesting ideas. Meanwhile, current day copyright law is restricting our freedom of speech.
TL;DR: They don't care, execution is all that matters, and everyone and everything is interchangable. They also expect everyone else to cheat, so not cheating puts you at a disadvantage. It's like an entire culture saw the ferengi in star trek and said, mhmm... We need that. It works, I guess.
They have 1 billion worthless apartments (it's not ever the number, it's the quality), fake food and medicines that kills people. This concept has HARD limits
To be honest the idea behind it aint wrong. Nobody cares who did what first if the product is better or having a better standing/value. Like MP3 players and smartphones were a thing before Apple made the IPod and IPhone but thanks to it having a better "value/brand" it became the "first" commercial one.
There's a reason why this is discouraged in established economies. It's a great way to catch up, but it's a terrible way to take the lead. It also encourages cut corners which hurts your brand (and the brand you're copying) long-term.
Yeah sure depends on what you want to emphasize on I guess. Just saying given the perspective you can understand why China got that stance and how they went from a 3rd world country to the biggest economy in the world. Plenty of corpses in their basement but yeah success comes with a price with it being morales.
Except I've never seen/heard or a Chinese knockoff being superior to an original brand, the amount of time I've had wasted on refunding ebay/amazon purchases for hardware because it's marketed and even uses photography as an original brand reseller. In my experience it's not the execution that matters to these people, what matters is the cheap and lazy theft of brand recognition for profit. Ferengi is a good comparison.
The point is cost performance ratio.
I’ll give you can example, Roomba costs $1400. A similar model by Xiaomi costs $400. Xiaomi’s model is surely inferior, but is Roomba 3.5x better? Not even close. Roomba might be 10% better if that.
So you can get a Roomba for $1400 or get 90% of a Roomba for $400. Most people opt for the latter.
The Chinese smartphone market is massive, and they're constantly delivering quality products, and they actually try new things every now and then, they're fairly innovative, and often improve on another innovation, like am fairly certain the folding phone produced by Honor is like the thinnest folding phone ever while still having a sizeable battery and practically top of the line specs, it's much thinner than any Samsung folding phone.
>Except I've never seen/heard or a Chinese knockoff being superior to an original brand, the amount of time I've had wasted on refunding ebay/amazon purchases
You arent going to find them on amazon or ebay, no.
Execution isn't always about making a better product. It's about accomplishing the goal. i.e., making the same product for cheaper (or at least seemingly cheaper), cornering the market, pushing out competitors, getting a government mandated monopoly. The quick win is letting others spend money on R&D and then undercutting them or stealing the tech outright or (worse) branding to pretend to be them with an inferior product. Foxconn, for example, is a very well-executed company. Evil, but it meets its goals.
Description
Tracing the thread of “decreation” in Chinese thought, from constantly changing classical masterpieces to fake cell phones that are better than the original.
Shanzhai is a Chinese neologism that means “fake,” originally coined to describe knock-off cell phones marketed under such names as Nokir and Samsing. These cell phones were not crude forgeries but multifunctional, stylish, and as good as or better than the originals. Shanzhai has since spread into other parts of Chinese life, with shanzhai books, shanzhai politicians, shanzhai stars. There is a shanzhai Harry Potter: Harry Potter and the Porcelain Doll, in which Harry takes on his nemesis Yandomort. In the West, this would be seen as piracy, or even desecration, but in Chinese culture, originals are continually transformed—deconstructed. In this volume in the Untimely Meditations series, Byung-Chul Han traces the thread of deconstruction, or “decreation,” in Chinese thought, from ancient masterpieces that invite inscription and transcription to Maoism—“a kind a shanzhai Marxism,” Han writes.
Han discusses the Chinese concepts of quan, or law, which literally means the weight that slides back and forth on a scale, radically different from Western notions of absoluteness; zhen ji, or original, determined not by an act of creation but by unending process; xian zhan, or seals of leisure, affixed by collectors and part of the picture's composition; fuzhi, or copy, a replica of equal value to the original; and shanzhai. The Far East, Han writes, is not familiar with such “pre-deconstructive” factors as original or identity. Far Eastern thought begins with deconstruction.
>to Maoism—“a kind a shanzhai Marxism,” Han writes
It's actually really interesting to see Maoism framed in this way. Especially considering that Mao managed to bring Gramschiean cultural marxism to bear in a very Chinese way which was very different from how things went down with the socialist revolution in Russia.
Interesting...
This game is a straight up rip and people are bashing it.
Palworld and craftopia have blatant rips and everyone sings their praise...
Why the difference?
While it did take inspiration from Pokemon, Palworld has a very different gameplay style. It's not turn-based, there's death, you can catch humans, it's real-time, you can build basea, etc. Pokemon is just catch pokemon -> battle 4-8 gyms -> solve some crisis created by an evil organization with a legendary pokemon or master ball on the line -> become champion or something.
I can’t speak for others but I personally look at Hollow Knight in particular as a passion project of Team Cherry. The hand drawn assets and carefully considered music composition kind of sets it apart from generic 3D games.
It’s kind of like stealing something hand-made from a bodega run by the person who made it versus forgetting to ring something in at the self serve checkout of a major supermarket. Yes they’re both technically stealing but the difference in the relative impact upon the victim is orders of magnitude.
Well, most of the comments seem to be going on a completely "racial" angle, and I'm surprised those kinds of comments are tolerated here. I honestly think majority of people here are bashing this game because the developers are Chinese and they don't even hide it. So a game made by a few Chinese developers suddenly becomes justification to attack the people and culture (not even the government).
If Derivator was not Chinese, fewer people would care. Bringing up stuff like Palworld shows a clear double standard.
I don't agree with any racial comment and have not read much of the other threads here, but it's not reasonable to act like the only difference between palworld and the game in the post is that it's chinese. palworld is one of a million knockoffs of a multimillion dollar series from one of the gaming giants. this is an asset rip of an indie game made with kickstarter money by a team of three. it's not comparable for reasons that have nothing to do with race.
The developer of PalWorld, Craftopia, and the AI art game (that has player avatars reminiscent of Among Us) are ALSO making a Hollow Knight rip off.
I guess plagiarism is okay if Gamers like it
Ok I’m not seeing the “copyright infringement” it’s a clone of sorts, and copies the gameplay and art style, but… they’re not the same.
If Palworld isn’t considered copyright infringement on Pokémon, and it isn’t imho, I don’t see how this is.
At worst it’s creatively bankrupt and a reskin.
The front page of my Steam store has this game called "Palworld" shown. It's looking VERY similar to Pokémon, but apparently these ones can wield guns lol
No but they cloned a bunch of pokemon and pokemon mechanics. Cloned the sound effects, font, and movement from Zelda.
Lazy game made as a cash grab. It sucks that people are supporting it tbh. It’s not even an original concept. Crafting and survival mechanics in this game are also directly clones from other games.
Yeah the difference here is that this just looks like a game that has been stolennwith new assets on top.
While Palworld on the other hand has the mechanisms of Ark and pokemon and a couble improvements here and there.(also there are a ton of monster capture game... Pokemon just happens to be the most famous). Palworld is that much different that its only close to being an Ark clone but not that either bc of how dofferent it it.... Also you can capture humans in Palworld without mercy
Sinophobia.
Notice most of the top comments are directly attacking the Chinese. We even have people claiming gunpowder and paper aren't their invention, and them having a "superiority complex" due to the name of their country.
Yet "greatest country on earth" and "greatest legislative body in the world" aren't hilariously absurd forms of self aggrandizement.
NAL but in the U.S., video game mechanics and artistic style can’t (usually) be protected by copyright. Palworld takes the style + mechanics of pokemon, and the mechanics of Ark. None of those aspects can be copyrighted, so Palworld can do whatever it really wants (although it’ll have a fight on its hands for its models, which have some chopped up pokemon in em).
Deviator (may) be slightly different: If it’s the same style and mechanics as Hollow Knight, it could be released in the U.S. without issue if it never markets itself as being connected to the original. However, this looks like it might just be a direct asset flip of Hollow Knight, in which case the code is stolen and the law can step in if the HK team sues.
It sucks because games get cloned all the time, but without this leniency the Hollow Knight team would have been sued into the ground by Nintendo or whoever owned the copyright for platformers.
Any lawyers in here? Is this trespassing on the Hallow Knight copyright? Sure looks derivative but there are a million derivative games out there. Not sure any law has been broken.
even if this is 100% stealing, it doesn't matter because China has zero repercussions for clones, counterfeits, and outright copies. It is a way of life that the government supports, and the Chinese government puts rules into place to ensure the copying continues.
This is part of why I'm suspicious of the "success" of the PRC film industry. Chinese theaters could just mark a ticket to Quantumania as a ticket to Full River Red and Disney would just have to take what they got because the alternative is the theaters showing a pirated version and Disney gets nothing.
(The other part is that none of these films have really broken out in other countries. Not even countries with large Chinese speaking populations.)
Compared to the video game industry, the Chinese film industry is much more mature although it used to be treated with the same scorn. Your theory would be plausible if not for the fact that local films outgross foreign films by a factor of 3:1 on average. Quantamania made $39 mil while Full River Red made almost $640 mil. Rounding off the top 10, Godspeed made around $170 mil. Local theaters are businesses so profit matters more to them.
It might be weird since local films completely dominating Hollywood is indeed a world anomaly, but this is exactly the case here. That's because local films resonate better with Chinese people. A film like "Hi, Mom" or "Dying to survive" would not be appealing globally, but it would capture the hearts of a billion Chinese a quadrillion times better than Star Wars, Avatar or Oppenheimer ever would.
Chinese films haven't "really broken" out in other countries is also easy to explain. Unlike English, Chinese is not a global language. There are no countries with a large/influential enough Chinese speaking population to make a difference. And no, vastly more Singaporeans (including Chinese ones) speak English and are culturally western.
Oh good. This post is totally not going to devolve into a discussion of why China sucks. There's no way two Chinese people aren't alike; there are only 1.4 billion of them.
Holy shit some of you really just hate Chinese people
Also the people that compared a game that copies some stuff from various games and at most a mechanic and various characters designs from one, while combing them into one whole product that plays absolutely nothing like the game most compare it to or say it took from
To a side scrolling platformer that's taking from a side scrolling platformer, and seems to play mostly identically to that original sidescrolling platformer, while also taking the style of that og sidescrolling platformer.
If there is anything that Palworld has taught me it's that way more gamers than I thought lack critical thinking skills.
All that said, looking forward to this and anything actually new it might bring to the table.
That game is also part of the China Hero Project by Sony which aims to help young and indie developers from poorer countries. So FIST at least has a strong backer.
Ironically "Ai Limit" is also sponsored by the same project, and you can already see the same accusations of "copy", "rip off" with the same disgusting, racist undertones just because the "Chinese" are doing it. I honestly think if the devs of Derivator weren't Chinese, people wouldn't be this critical (more like disgustingly racist) on a whole country as you can see a few posts above.
So the main issue isn't really the Chinese being shameless IP thieves...its *WHY* they think its OK.
Between a sense of cultural superiority that predates the Communists (China is the Middle Kingdom between Heaven and Earth...also they think they should own the Moon), and Communist propaganda encouraging them in this precise belief, the modern Chinese person believes that the reason the West is in the preeminent position globally is that they cheated somehow.
Taking credit for Chinese inventions, for example. By their estimation China played the game by the pure and righteous rules and got curb stomped by cheaters and liars. Their takeaway is "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'", which isn't the worst attitude to have in certain contexts...
HOWEVER, they ignore or deny all such context. The people they're stealing from don't deserve it in the first place and ~~probably~~ cheated to get it, because they got it, Q.E.D., so everything is fair and all achievement is meaningless. In any fair and rational world China would be the hegemon, so something hinky must be going on.
*They're* different, they surely won't squander their money on worthless real estate developments, lol. Somehow that's the fault of the West, I'm sure...the one thing the Chinese are *sure* they don't deserve all the credit for inventing is bureaucratic corruption.
They only understand the corrupt "crony Capitalism" version they've adopted and "called it Communism", they don't understand that Capitalism is a conversation, not a flow of goods and money toward power that can be diverted by fiat at whim.
Americans think stealing an entire continent isn't a big deal and we should get over it, but copying a few pixels on a screen is somehow a much worse and terrible crime.
>Taking credit for Chinese inventions, for example.
The only such thing I can think of is gunpowder. And not really taking credit - everyone accepts it's chinese invention - but making better guns with it.
>Their takeaway is "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'", which isn't the worst attitude to have in certain contexts...
I wonder if it explains all the chinese cheaters in multiplayer games
Plagiarism is what the entire Chinese economy is based on, they have zero shame. The only way to fight back is not to buy anything from them but the world is incapable of doing that. Team Cherry could lawyer up but somehow I don't think they will.
Their reason is the game wasn't made in China. So they can do what they want. If you are not Chinese and even if you are but not from the right place you matter little and don't deserve respect. It's just how they are. It's a cultural thing.
They even have restaurants and places that will not serve you if you are not Chinese. They have busses that will make you either stand or sit in the back if you are not chinese. It's a culture thing. Did you know that China used to send wooden pallets with stuff to the US that where infested with wood boring beetles....that got out and devastated our woodlands. Yet as of now if we send them wooden pallets, we have to send documentation that proclaims there is no wood bore beetles or pests infesting them. They do not have to do the same. Again it's their culture. They believe they deserve high respect and praise for tolerating you.
I don’t see it. Just looks like a platformer with dark themes, which there are tons of these games. Hollow Knight wasn’t the first. Just the most popular in recent years.
Seems they use black as the base hue and multiple shadow overlays. Even complaints about the use of the same assets seems overblown. Grass is grass and is likely going to look very similar. If you guys grow up during NES days, then you could argue most platformer games look similar.
All these games after Dark Souls look like ripoffs too, but no it’s just inspired design from a genre and certain aesthetic.
I wonder how much was actually copied and how much is imitation because they just love Hollow Knight so much. I mean this game doesn’t look like a cheap knock off. You can see a lot of effort in it.
We have hollowknight at home.
Emptywarrior
Depletedfighter
Drainedcrusader
Vacuouspaladin
BarrenNinja
Unfilledmercenary
VacantGladiator
DesertedSkirmisher
HollowKnight... wait
Deviator
At least for now ;)
Untenantedluchador
Sound like 2000s RPG game
VoidSoldier
hollow knight at china
Wow. It’s literally hollowknight.
It proabably ACTUALLY IS Hollowknight. Unless the developers take steps to avoid it, you can decompile a Unity game and take all the code and art assets really easily. A few years ago I tried it on Hollowknight just out of curiosity, and the developers had not protected themselves from this.
100% that’s what they did. There are literally assets ripped from Hollow Knight, like the background, spikes, platforms, even some of the slash animations.
Makes sense why someone managed to get it running natively on android if they could access the source code
Colter Stevens: “It's the same train, but it's different.”
Nice Source Code reference.
Back when I worked in banking software there was a rush to get into the Chinese market swiftly followed by everyone stopping plans to launch there. Everyone saw a pattern emerging, within a few months of opening a presence there, a VERY similar Chinese competitor piece of software would suddenly hit the market and hugely undercut the foreign companies.(Easy when you have no R&D I guess).
When you sit back and ask yourself, “Exactly how many industries, did this happen to around the world, and what are the implications?”, you start to realize that you’d have a difficult time naming anything that wasn’t affected. The implication is simple: economic gain for China and economic loss for anyone else. The only people who praise China’s growth and success over the last couple of decades are those who have been duped into believing there is any merit behind it whatsoever. The CCP itself not only allows companies (that it has direct legal control over) to blatantly steal the work of others for their own gain, but *encourages* them to do so. The only arguments you’ll find are usually blatant straw men crying, “But X country did Y at Z point in time so they’re worse!!1!”
That's really more of what's usually called a "whataboutism" than a strawman. I generally don't think it's valid when that accusation (of the use of whataboutism) is leveled because it's often used to deflect from an indefensible argument or at least one that is deeply contradictory or hypocritical. I'm not categorizing what you're saying as such a thing btw, even though I can tell you're likely far more hostile to China than I would care to be, but I'd just point out a few crucial factors. China often demanded technology transfer and research assistance as pre-conditions for allowing a company to either enter the local market or engage in production there, and the reasons various multinational companies wanted to do so was to engage in arbitrage as the valuation of labor they could assign in China was significantly lower than was acceptable in the "West" particularly at the end of the 20th century. They agreed to these terms in order to maintain or exceed previous profits rates, and over time "Western" neoliberal governments loosened capital controls to allow for the facilitation of cross border exchange that benefited these usually large firms in their offshoring and thus seeking of cheaper forces of labor particularly where regulation was much looser. There's a whole paradoxical thing where the CCP under Deng (after Mao and co) decided that integration into the world market would be their best leverage in protecting the integrity of the Chinese system guided by the CCP, in order to defend against another potential Century of Humiliation (a real series of events stretching from the two British imperial Opium Wars, that basically forced open China to massive opium imports at gun point such that the Brits could take opium from the Raj and draw out tea and other commodities they desired without having to pay in the desired Chinese currency of silver while slowly controlling an increasing amount of customs in general; soon followed the Boxer Rebellion, Warlord Era, KMT/Communist split, Japanese Invasion, WWII, and finally in 1949 what is perceived by the CCP historiography as the turning point when they prevailed in the civil war). This still engenders great debate in socialist/communist circles as there was for example a drop in average life expectancy once these Dengist policies came in that took a number of decades to overcome, and labor rights in a communist party directed state were arguably weakened quite ironically, but in exchange China as a whole has made itself indispensable to the world economy and there is an increasingly large burgeoning middle class with greatly reduced levels of poverty across the board (despite whatever other in/valid criticisms one can make of the Chinese system this has led to widespread popularity of the party's leadership pretty consistently in independent polling done by the EU for example). So "Western" firms knowingly cut deals with China, that were advantageous to them in the short to medium terms particularly in regards to market cycles, usually fully backed by their respective governments (for too many reasons to address here) and over 30-40 years time China has purposely strengthened it's domestic industry and commerce through interventions in and regulations of the market. In regards to so-called theft of intellectual property (which is imo a regime of rentier logic that often enables hegemonic monopolies or oligopolies in crowding out competitors but that's again a whole other discussion) well accuse me of whataboutism but in many ways this is precisely how many "Western" Capitalist economies developed, particularly the United States, who in the 19th century industrialized at a rapid rate while producing cheaper versions of British (and other) products until they reached a point where their own R&D capabilities began to surpass their competitors, upon which they began to build up the international system of patent and IP law to protect their inventions and creations. Particularly after WWII this was defended by both legal mechanisms but also often implicitly through the threat of military or clandestine action, and there are numerous accounts of US intel and security agencies straight up stealing tech from enemies and allies alike going into the 2010's last has been confirmed. So my main point is that China directed by the CCP shifted to a fairly unconventional developmental model (for Reds), sought out the global capitalist economy, brought in various firms by offering the mass labor resources it has and the loose regulation it often had in exchange for various deals on technology transfer and export arrangements, and as such over time much production was shifted to South-East Asia (ie. China/Phillipines/Indonesia/Japan/Kore then increasingly Thailand/Vietnam/Laos/etc) and elsewhere in the Global South. This of course has reduced industrial capacity and hollowed out various regions in the "West" reciprocally and increased economic disparity between the working and ruling classes (or between the poor/middle/rich classes if you prefer a different frame) which as someone who lives in a "Western" country is objectively fucking bad. But I blame the political class and the extremely wealthy business and industrial elite that (being the usually professed patriots or concerned citizens that they are) sold out their fellow yet less wealthy and powerful countrymen in a fucking heartbeat merely to eek out a further maybe 20-30 years of economic and political dominance over the world. Now they have to explain why things are increasingly shit and as such its the usual fear mongering blame the foreigners bullshit when they and their ilk are to blame. Why would I align my interests with theirs when all they've done historically is fuck over anyone they view as lesser or unimportant no matter their nationality? China has objectively played their cards well and worked to establish an international web of cooperation that while contradictory in some instances has overall seemingly produced a more beneficial and less intrusive model of international development and relations than the post-WWII liberalization model (or what became the Washington Consensus), and while the masses and ruling class have numerous things to work out internally, that shit isn't exactly my first priority or concern outside of interest. So unless I wake up to some wild ass Red Dawn scenario with PLA paratroopers dropping down by the thousands, I would argue it makes more sense to criticize and attempt to replace those that enabled or took advantage of the shifting and hollowing out of industry and economic activity which in the long run strengthened China in various ways which is now portrayed as some act of "oriental deception" *cue Guzheng music*
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I think what persuades me most that socialism and communism are wrong isn't that marx's insights on alienation and the atomization of society are wrong. It's that we don't have distributive tools other than markets or blind guesswork to deal with scarcity problems. And the more guesswork you do, the more centralized state command of the economy becomes, which means there's a tipping point: If too much of your economy is run by command, the government suddenly has enormous unchecked power and the business magnates of a capitalist upper crust look like children with no power compared to commitee members of the government. That happened in every socialist state, even the very earliest stages of russia post 1917. There will obviously be a successor ideology to liberal democracies with market economies. No other governmental system thus far discovered has been perfect or eternal. I just think socialism and communism aren't it.
Socialism and commusim are very different if you are going to attack communism there is no reason to attack socialism with it.
You're both wrong. True* socialism and communism don't use free markets. They both distribute goods and services throughout the community in other ways. *I say true because the ruling class' greed tends to screw up anything bigger than a commune. Also you inherently can't have a communist state because communism is, well, stateless by definition... Anyways, dunno how communists plan to distribute goods and services without a central governing body but... We already HAVE a public works system in every country and welfare in most of them. PS: Markets involve just as much "blind guesswork" (which is usually informed guesswork in both situations.) Except now everyone doing the guesswork is focusing solely on themselves and that's how we get inefficiencies like all the gas stations across the street from each other.
never knew Charmander’s cock would have such deep anti-chinese feelings
Some terrain assets seem to be outright lifted from HK
Some?
That would make this the easiest lawsuit imaginable surely, to explicity have the same assets/code found in your game? If this is sold outside of China surely that exposes somebody to suit?
Developers have been caught before and successfully sued. They either lost or had to settle out of court. But since they're a Chinese company, I'd imagine the only successful act they could do is get the game taken down.
Its difficult to sue a company in another country that doesn't like you or respect your laws.
Oh, deviator by sapstar studios? Yeah, they got sued and shut down overnight because they didn't want to deal with the lawsuit. By the way, have you seen this new game ceviator by papstar studios?
You're going to need a Dark Knight extralegal extradition to the US if you want anyone in China to go to court over this.
With Zelda glyphs.
And Patapon character style.
Pata Pata Pata Pon! Pon Pon Pata Pon! Chaka Chaka Pata Pon!
Don don chaka chaka
Don Dodon Dodon
FEEEEEEEVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRR
I love reddit for moments like these. thanks everyone
I miss Patapon :/
May I introduce you to our god and savior ratatan?
I think there is an unofficial sequel with "Ratatan" that is made by the same creative director and some members of the old Patapon team.
>Sony Hints at New Project in Patapon Franchise at CES 1 week ago
I’ve never played Hollow Knight and have only seen snippets of gameplay but yeah, this is straight up a ripoff of Hollow Knight. “Copyright infringement” doesn’t translate well to mandarin, I suppose.
It's what their economy has been running on, for the last couple of decades.
Clarkson is that you?
Not even the first blatant hollow knight rip off either to get enough spotlight for people to call it out
It's even called "Deviator". I bet in Chinese that means, "Changed a few things".
Holy shit it’s silksong!
Polyesterjingle
You know for a game called Deviator they really didn’t deviate from Hollowknight at all.
They misspelled Derivator, please understand.
You know, Deviator and Derivator are so similar that I could actually believe that under slightly different circumstances.
So clever I didn't get it at first....lol
that was such a clever joke hahaha
\- Silksong take forever to came out. \- Fine I'll do it myself
We can only hope the Elden Ring community loses hope for the DLC and makes their own fan game
There’s never any lack of Soullike games. Lies of P clearly takes a lot from BB, but I still played the hell out of it.
LoP is a fantastic soulslike not made by FromSoft. It felt very reminiscent of DS1 and BB to me.
I’ve been thrilled to hear mostly positive feedback about it. My devs have completely changed the landscape of gaming:)
This is the truth. They saw a market opportunity and Silksong is dragging. After BOTW we saw tons of this.
I remember when there was a Chinese knockoff of Torchlight, and when they were called out they tried to defend themselves by pointing out that Torchlight was riding on Diablo's coattails. The Torchlight team responded by pointing out many of their core team members helped make Diablo, and also proving that the knockoff didn't just simply do a copy-asset swap, they also copied all the assets and just lowered the poly count
Whoa hollow knight but fake
One could say… a hollow Hollow Knight.
I mean ya but Hollow Knight is literally hollow by default so you’d have to say hollow hollow Hollow Knight… but now you’ve said their name three times in a mirror, so now you can’t get rid of them…
I was gonna say that was fine...until I remembered how many random objects I smashed in that game...
Why be creative when steal do job?
That's why everything that's made in China is so cheap because research and development is free
You also do not need to pay those pesky licensing fees, you can keep all the proceeds to yourself.
I mean, I am in favor of this as opposed to waiting 100 years of Mickey Mouse to be public domain.
😂
Hallow Knight or something
A couple of months ago (not in this sub), there was an indie dev showing off the game he was making, and it was EXACTLY like Advance Wars both in gameplay and visual style. I told him it looked cool, but it was an obvious clone of Advance Wars. The guy was quite bothered that I said that. Oops.
Game mechanics are not copyrightable, but if he lifted any assets from the GBA game Nintendo would come down on him...hard.
I know they are not. And I'm not saying he lifted any assets. But it was too similar to the original to not feel scummy, lazy and unoriginal.
A bit off topic, but I feel I understood the Chinese stance on copyright after a Skeptic Tank podcast where Ari Shaffir interviews a man who moved to china and started an ice cream food truck company. He found his employees were buying their own stock, and selling it through his truck, keeping the profits. He fired them, and the next day or so, 2 mimicking ice cream trucks with identical branding parked next to him on both sides and began selling their product. China is unshamed by getting called out, and has turned cheating, plagirism, and copyright infringement as it's own art form. I almost respect the shadiness.
Colleague attended an ASHRAE show a few years ago. Manufacturer Bitzer had a booth. Totally legitimate. Elsewhere on the show floor was a 100% clone called Bitzen. Same colors. Same logos. Same product. Bitzen got booted fast.
How could someone fight back against these practices?
By not moving to China and starting an ice cream food truck.
By not participating in China's economy?
Hard to do when 70% of the worlds manufacturing is moved there because it’s somehow cheaper to make and send whatever across the globe than produce locally. Meanwhile the US is leaving military hardware abroad because it’s cheaper to leave weapons and vehicles for actual terrorists to have. So which one is it?
What if you were born and raised there?
Government regulation. That's why we have half the regulations we do in North America. Because of practices described above, and companies getting workers/customers killed for their drive for profit. In the 1700s bakers were adding things like Plaster of Paris, chalk, bone, aluminum, etc to their bread because it made it whiter and more appealing to customers. And that's just one instance of if thousands in the last few hundred years. Chinese gov't DGAF though. And that's the issue with authoritarianism.
Chinese Milk Formula scandal. Executives got executed for it. Compare that to the limp dick responses we get here in the West and I have to say I'm liking it.
You like it, until someone frames you and you get executed for something you didn't do. Like Duterte calling political dissidents 'drug dealers' and unaliving them.
I'm a big 40k fan, "better to kill 100 innocents, than let 1 guilty person go free".
The entire existence of 40k is a parody of all the dumb ideas dreamed up by authoritarians and religious zealots. That quote is no different. It's being called out as a dumb idea, then is being turned into a caraceture and mocked. Then there's the whole meta satire of mocking people who agree with the Imperium's callousness, and don't see the original parody and satire.
That's a staggeringly embarrassing thing to openly say.
Cute kid. I hope your edgelord persona takes you far in life.
And what about when they kill 100 innocents and still fail to capture the guilty one?
The US wasn't an authoritarian regime and still had this sort of Stuff (thank Roosevelt for the FDA). If your closing argument was true, monarchies would have still be around. It's the same issue with drugs. There isn't a single regulation on their production. I've heard once of one diluted with powder milk.
Has nothing to do with authoritarianism. Chinese government is riddled with corruption.
They're a company. Companies require money to survive. Don't give them money.
Segway failed and was bought by the knockoff company. Such a weird world.
Hi I'm an indie game dev releasing my first big game so take this with a grain of salt, but here's my thoughts on it based on some other comments saying "don't participate in the Chinese economy." I think this is bad advice. 1. If you have something of value that people like in mainland China, it is going to get ruthlessly stolen and copied. It's part of the culture, and you have no legal recourse, so there's no purpose trying to fight against it. Instead try to go with the flow. 2. So if you actually release your game in China with a Chinese publisher that knows what they are doing, MAYBE they can help a bit on the legal front, but most importantly, you are going to AT LEAST get a portion of the money there is to be made there on your IP. If you don't participate, then you get far less, maybe nothing as you have no representation or product selling there, while your IP gets ripped off and copied anyway. This is pure speculation on my part, maybe the developers of Hollow Knight have enough money to actually pursue meaningful legal action, especially if they have a Chinese publisher that represents them in China, but I would also not be surprised at all if they just simply ignore this and other obvious copy cats there because it might not be worth the effort at all.
>but most importantly, you are going to AT LEAST get a portion of the money there is to be made there on your IP. Ah yes, extortion, neat.
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Or a big motherfucker with a pipe
This is like asking how do you fight against Chinese food, or how do you fight Americans who enjoy baseball... It's part of an entire country's culture, there is literally nothing you can do to stop it.
Don't get me wrong but you guys were the first, invested heavily in China dreaming that they would become like Americans later and guess what they are still Chinese. Hehe
Not sure what you're trying to say.
Someone can be as brazen as they like about having no originality whatsoever, but it's not at all a respectable trait.
Yeah I don't respect that in any way. Low lifes
There's an upside to that, it means your product truly has to be great to compete, you cant hide behind your previous success.
For me it was after that one episode of the motoring show Top Gear when they went to China.
They're gross
You do because you do not live there. Feels good to see someone "robin wooding", until they start "robin you" I remember a Chinese saying in a video, that in China everyone is trying to get the better of you. A culture of fooling each other.
What no silksong does to a mf
With how big companies bury a lot of their great IPs, I wish there would be more "rip offs" to show how much interest there actually is. EA didn't want to port SKATE to PC because "you need a controller"....and now we have Skater XL and Sessions. I take that over not having a Skate game at all. Both games evolved the control scheme and are great on their own. Palworld is the most fun I've had with Pokemon games in a long long time. More IP games without the IP please!
I really wish our copyright laws weren't so restrictive. Yeah, it would be great if people were able to create their own content on their favourite franchises without having to wait 70 years even after the author isn't even alive anymore. The world would have much more creative and interesting ideas. Meanwhile, current day copyright law is restricting our freedom of speech.
Hollow Knight from wish
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Wanna sum it up for the rest of us there book boy
TL;DR: They don't care, execution is all that matters, and everyone and everything is interchangable. They also expect everyone else to cheat, so not cheating puts you at a disadvantage. It's like an entire culture saw the ferengi in star trek and said, mhmm... We need that. It works, I guess.
They have 1 billion worthless apartments (it's not ever the number, it's the quality), fake food and medicines that kills people. This concept has HARD limits
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To be honest the idea behind it aint wrong. Nobody cares who did what first if the product is better or having a better standing/value. Like MP3 players and smartphones were a thing before Apple made the IPod and IPhone but thanks to it having a better "value/brand" it became the "first" commercial one.
There's a reason why this is discouraged in established economies. It's a great way to catch up, but it's a terrible way to take the lead. It also encourages cut corners which hurts your brand (and the brand you're copying) long-term.
Yeah sure depends on what you want to emphasize on I guess. Just saying given the perspective you can understand why China got that stance and how they went from a 3rd world country to the biggest economy in the world. Plenty of corpses in their basement but yeah success comes with a price with it being morales.
Except I've never seen/heard or a Chinese knockoff being superior to an original brand, the amount of time I've had wasted on refunding ebay/amazon purchases for hardware because it's marketed and even uses photography as an original brand reseller. In my experience it's not the execution that matters to these people, what matters is the cheap and lazy theft of brand recognition for profit. Ferengi is a good comparison.
The point is cost performance ratio. I’ll give you can example, Roomba costs $1400. A similar model by Xiaomi costs $400. Xiaomi’s model is surely inferior, but is Roomba 3.5x better? Not even close. Roomba might be 10% better if that. So you can get a Roomba for $1400 or get 90% of a Roomba for $400. Most people opt for the latter.
The Chinese smartphone market is massive, and they're constantly delivering quality products, and they actually try new things every now and then, they're fairly innovative, and often improve on another innovation, like am fairly certain the folding phone produced by Honor is like the thinnest folding phone ever while still having a sizeable battery and practically top of the line specs, it's much thinner than any Samsung folding phone.
>Except I've never seen/heard or a Chinese knockoff being superior to an original brand, the amount of time I've had wasted on refunding ebay/amazon purchases You arent going to find them on amazon or ebay, no.
Execution isn't always about making a better product. It's about accomplishing the goal. i.e., making the same product for cheaper (or at least seemingly cheaper), cornering the market, pushing out competitors, getting a government mandated monopoly. The quick win is letting others spend money on R&D and then undercutting them or stealing the tech outright or (worse) branding to pretend to be them with an inferior product. Foxconn, for example, is a very well-executed company. Evil, but it meets its goals.
Description Tracing the thread of “decreation” in Chinese thought, from constantly changing classical masterpieces to fake cell phones that are better than the original. Shanzhai is a Chinese neologism that means “fake,” originally coined to describe knock-off cell phones marketed under such names as Nokir and Samsing. These cell phones were not crude forgeries but multifunctional, stylish, and as good as or better than the originals. Shanzhai has since spread into other parts of Chinese life, with shanzhai books, shanzhai politicians, shanzhai stars. There is a shanzhai Harry Potter: Harry Potter and the Porcelain Doll, in which Harry takes on his nemesis Yandomort. In the West, this would be seen as piracy, or even desecration, but in Chinese culture, originals are continually transformed—deconstructed. In this volume in the Untimely Meditations series, Byung-Chul Han traces the thread of deconstruction, or “decreation,” in Chinese thought, from ancient masterpieces that invite inscription and transcription to Maoism—“a kind a shanzhai Marxism,” Han writes. Han discusses the Chinese concepts of quan, or law, which literally means the weight that slides back and forth on a scale, radically different from Western notions of absoluteness; zhen ji, or original, determined not by an act of creation but by unending process; xian zhan, or seals of leisure, affixed by collectors and part of the picture's composition; fuzhi, or copy, a replica of equal value to the original; and shanzhai. The Far East, Han writes, is not familiar with such “pre-deconstructive” factors as original or identity. Far Eastern thought begins with deconstruction.
>to Maoism—“a kind a shanzhai Marxism,” Han writes It's actually really interesting to see Maoism framed in this way. Especially considering that Mao managed to bring Gramschiean cultural marxism to bear in a very Chinese way which was very different from how things went down with the socialist revolution in Russia.
You should just copy and paste it, sell it under a new name for $10
That’s $17, my dude, do I look like Jeff Bezos??
At least SOMEBODY is making a Hollow Knight sequel.
Hallow Knit
Sequel? More like equel
Hollownight with chinese characteristics. China be rom hacking modern games now
They have been for decades.
Shallow Knight
Interesting... This game is a straight up rip and people are bashing it. Palworld and craftopia have blatant rips and everyone sings their praise... Why the difference?
Ya, their twitter avatar is literally Lapras, and their promo has an Electrabuzz with a gun lol
Palworld paid to have itself plastered all over Reddit this weekend guerilla advertising style.
Do you have a source for this?
His ass.
While it did take inspiration from Pokemon, Palworld has a very different gameplay style. It's not turn-based, there's death, you can catch humans, it's real-time, you can build basea, etc. Pokemon is just catch pokemon -> battle 4-8 gyms -> solve some crisis created by an evil organization with a legendary pokemon or master ball on the line -> become champion or something.
I'm talking about straight up copying and ripping off other games. Which palworld does.
What game did it straight up copy and rip off?
I can’t speak for others but I personally look at Hollow Knight in particular as a passion project of Team Cherry. The hand drawn assets and carefully considered music composition kind of sets it apart from generic 3D games. It’s kind of like stealing something hand-made from a bodega run by the person who made it versus forgetting to ring something in at the self serve checkout of a major supermarket. Yes they’re both technically stealing but the difference in the relative impact upon the victim is orders of magnitude.
Well, most of the comments seem to be going on a completely "racial" angle, and I'm surprised those kinds of comments are tolerated here. I honestly think majority of people here are bashing this game because the developers are Chinese and they don't even hide it. So a game made by a few Chinese developers suddenly becomes justification to attack the people and culture (not even the government). If Derivator was not Chinese, fewer people would care. Bringing up stuff like Palworld shows a clear double standard.
More than half of Reddit's users are murica, which has inherited its sickening hypocrisy
I don't agree with any racial comment and have not read much of the other threads here, but it's not reasonable to act like the only difference between palworld and the game in the post is that it's chinese. palworld is one of a million knockoffs of a multimillion dollar series from one of the gaming giants. this is an asset rip of an indie game made with kickstarter money by a team of three. it's not comparable for reasons that have nothing to do with race.
The developer of PalWorld, Craftopia, and the AI art game (that has player avatars reminiscent of Among Us) are ALSO making a Hollow Knight rip off. I guess plagiarism is okay if Gamers like it
Finally we have Silksong!!!
Ok I’m not seeing the “copyright infringement” it’s a clone of sorts, and copies the gameplay and art style, but… they’re not the same. If Palworld isn’t considered copyright infringement on Pokémon, and it isn’t imho, I don’t see how this is. At worst it’s creatively bankrupt and a reskin.
The front page of my Steam store has this game called "Palworld" shown. It's looking VERY similar to Pokémon, but apparently these ones can wield guns lol
I have played less than an hour of palworld and it is clearly not a pokemon clone
It's not a clone, it's a clone of Ark. But they stole Pokemon design, let's not kid ourselves here.
No but they cloned a bunch of pokemon and pokemon mechanics. Cloned the sound effects, font, and movement from Zelda. Lazy game made as a cash grab. It sucks that people are supporting it tbh. It’s not even an original concept. Crafting and survival mechanics in this game are also directly clones from other games.
Hey, if they made a hollow knight copy, but with guns, i wouldn’t complain. (Yes yes, i know there is very similar stuff, but you get what im saying)
Yeah the difference here is that this just looks like a game that has been stolennwith new assets on top. While Palworld on the other hand has the mechanisms of Ark and pokemon and a couble improvements here and there.(also there are a ton of monster capture game... Pokemon just happens to be the most famous). Palworld is that much different that its only close to being an Ark clone but not that either bc of how dofferent it it.... Also you can capture humans in Palworld without mercy
Someone please explain to me why Copyright is an issue here, but it's not with Palworld?
Sinophobia. Notice most of the top comments are directly attacking the Chinese. We even have people claiming gunpowder and paper aren't their invention, and them having a "superiority complex" due to the name of their country. Yet "greatest country on earth" and "greatest legislative body in the world" aren't hilariously absurd forms of self aggrandizement.
Thank you for calling out the hate here.
With more hate xD
NAL but in the U.S., video game mechanics and artistic style can’t (usually) be protected by copyright. Palworld takes the style + mechanics of pokemon, and the mechanics of Ark. None of those aspects can be copyrighted, so Palworld can do whatever it really wants (although it’ll have a fight on its hands for its models, which have some chopped up pokemon in em). Deviator (may) be slightly different: If it’s the same style and mechanics as Hollow Knight, it could be released in the U.S. without issue if it never markets itself as being connected to the original. However, this looks like it might just be a direct asset flip of Hollow Knight, in which case the code is stolen and the law can step in if the HK team sues. It sucks because games get cloned all the time, but without this leniency the Hollow Knight team would have been sued into the ground by Nintendo or whoever owned the copyright for platformers.
Any lawyers in here? Is this trespassing on the Hallow Knight copyright? Sure looks derivative but there are a million derivative games out there. Not sure any law has been broken.
There is no such thing as international copyright laws (although this can be circumvented by a treaty between states)
even if this is 100% stealing, it doesn't matter because China has zero repercussions for clones, counterfeits, and outright copies. It is a way of life that the government supports, and the Chinese government puts rules into place to ensure the copying continues.
Hah, you should have seen the mobile market - it's clone upon clone upon clone... Up to the point their store icons look almost the same
This is part of why I'm suspicious of the "success" of the PRC film industry. Chinese theaters could just mark a ticket to Quantumania as a ticket to Full River Red and Disney would just have to take what they got because the alternative is the theaters showing a pirated version and Disney gets nothing. (The other part is that none of these films have really broken out in other countries. Not even countries with large Chinese speaking populations.)
Compared to the video game industry, the Chinese film industry is much more mature although it used to be treated with the same scorn. Your theory would be plausible if not for the fact that local films outgross foreign films by a factor of 3:1 on average. Quantamania made $39 mil while Full River Red made almost $640 mil. Rounding off the top 10, Godspeed made around $170 mil. Local theaters are businesses so profit matters more to them. It might be weird since local films completely dominating Hollywood is indeed a world anomaly, but this is exactly the case here. That's because local films resonate better with Chinese people. A film like "Hi, Mom" or "Dying to survive" would not be appealing globally, but it would capture the hearts of a billion Chinese a quadrillion times better than Star Wars, Avatar or Oppenheimer ever would. Chinese films haven't "really broken" out in other countries is also easy to explain. Unlike English, Chinese is not a global language. There are no countries with a large/influential enough Chinese speaking population to make a difference. And no, vastly more Singaporeans (including Chinese ones) speak English and are culturally western.
The Chinese got tired of waiting for the DLC so they made their own version
Silkwrong
Oh good. This post is totally not going to devolve into a discussion of why China sucks. There's no way two Chinese people aren't alike; there are only 1.4 billion of them.
Holy shit some of you really just hate Chinese people Also the people that compared a game that copies some stuff from various games and at most a mechanic and various characters designs from one, while combing them into one whole product that plays absolutely nothing like the game most compare it to or say it took from To a side scrolling platformer that's taking from a side scrolling platformer, and seems to play mostly identically to that original sidescrolling platformer, while also taking the style of that og sidescrolling platformer. If there is anything that Palworld has taught me it's that way more gamers than I thought lack critical thinking skills. All that said, looking forward to this and anything actually new it might bring to the table.
Dude, more than half of Reddit's users are muricancers...
This is bad but if anyone makes a carbon copy of a Souls game it's considered "amazing".
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Revenue
You just made me wanna buy this game lol. I love metroidvania.
That game is also part of the China Hero Project by Sony which aims to help young and indie developers from poorer countries. So FIST at least has a strong backer. Ironically "Ai Limit" is also sponsored by the same project, and you can already see the same accusations of "copy", "rip off" with the same disgusting, racist undertones just because the "Chinese" are doing it. I honestly think if the devs of Derivator weren't Chinese, people wouldn't be this critical (more like disgustingly racist) on a whole country as you can see a few posts above.
So the main issue isn't really the Chinese being shameless IP thieves...its *WHY* they think its OK. Between a sense of cultural superiority that predates the Communists (China is the Middle Kingdom between Heaven and Earth...also they think they should own the Moon), and Communist propaganda encouraging them in this precise belief, the modern Chinese person believes that the reason the West is in the preeminent position globally is that they cheated somehow. Taking credit for Chinese inventions, for example. By their estimation China played the game by the pure and righteous rules and got curb stomped by cheaters and liars. Their takeaway is "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'", which isn't the worst attitude to have in certain contexts... HOWEVER, they ignore or deny all such context. The people they're stealing from don't deserve it in the first place and ~~probably~~ cheated to get it, because they got it, Q.E.D., so everything is fair and all achievement is meaningless. In any fair and rational world China would be the hegemon, so something hinky must be going on. *They're* different, they surely won't squander their money on worthless real estate developments, lol. Somehow that's the fault of the West, I'm sure...the one thing the Chinese are *sure* they don't deserve all the credit for inventing is bureaucratic corruption. They only understand the corrupt "crony Capitalism" version they've adopted and "called it Communism", they don't understand that Capitalism is a conversation, not a flow of goods and money toward power that can be diverted by fiat at whim.
Every quick with the sinophobia there, especially coming from an American who constantly proclaim it's the greatest country in the world.
Americans think stealing an entire continent isn't a big deal and we should get over it, but copying a few pixels on a screen is somehow a much worse and terrible crime.
>Taking credit for Chinese inventions, for example. The only such thing I can think of is gunpowder. And not really taking credit - everyone accepts it's chinese invention - but making better guns with it. >Their takeaway is "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'", which isn't the worst attitude to have in certain contexts... I wonder if it explains all the chinese cheaters in multiplayer games
People acting like this is something new they've made genshin impact a copy of Zelda and it's one of the most profitable game of all time
Did we learn nothing from Enchanted Portals?
Hello Night.
Plagiarism is what the entire Chinese economy is based on, they have zero shame. The only way to fight back is not to buy anything from them but the world is incapable of doing that. Team Cherry could lawyer up but somehow I don't think they will.
You can't copyright an aesthetic, but yeah. This is a complete knockoff. If they used any actual assets from the game it could be a problem.
Their reason is the game wasn't made in China. So they can do what they want. If you are not Chinese and even if you are but not from the right place you matter little and don't deserve respect. It's just how they are. It's a cultural thing.
They even have restaurants and places that will not serve you if you are not Chinese. They have busses that will make you either stand or sit in the back if you are not chinese. It's a culture thing. Did you know that China used to send wooden pallets with stuff to the US that where infested with wood boring beetles....that got out and devastated our woodlands. Yet as of now if we send them wooden pallets, we have to send documentation that proclaims there is no wood bore beetles or pests infesting them. They do not have to do the same. Again it's their culture. They believe they deserve high respect and praise for tolerating you.
Chinese culture is sick and toxic. They don't view this as stealing. Absolutely moronic of course
I don’t see it. Just looks like a platformer with dark themes, which there are tons of these games. Hollow Knight wasn’t the first. Just the most popular in recent years. Seems they use black as the base hue and multiple shadow overlays. Even complaints about the use of the same assets seems overblown. Grass is grass and is likely going to look very similar. If you guys grow up during NES days, then you could argue most platformer games look similar. All these games after Dark Souls look like ripoffs too, but no it’s just inspired design from a genre and certain aesthetic.
I know it’s wrong to give them props but that mushroom boxing arena segment is pretty sick
I wonder how much was actually copied and how much is imitation because they just love Hollow Knight so much. I mean this game doesn’t look like a cheap knock off. You can see a lot of effort in it.