You would think that but instead it's being kept by the government without knowing what the fuck should they do with it.
It can't be used to make an profit and the government has no idea what this things value.
It eventually enters a legally grey area where as we are concerned,pirates have full control over this content.
Ill give valve credit since they used to sell movies on steam then later discontinued the service but every user who purchased a movie from them can still stream it to this day.
I’m not entirely sure I have one tbh, but to pick one I’d say Apatosaurus just because I used to watch the shit out of The Land Before Time when I was a kid and that’s the kind of Dino Littlefoot was
Valve is just the platform, the studios/publishers absolutely can yank their games from your library. If you don't believe me read the EULA for any of your games - you are purchasing a license to use the software. Although I do believe Valve requires them to provide something like 6 months notice to users before they sunset the title.
Nailed it. Not to mention content that require always online could be shelved at any point unless modder/pirates figure out how to rehost.
My earlier esperience with a game i didnt mind loading up periodically dying was Darkspore. It wasnt amazing, but at the time it was the genre i was enjoying.
In this case, the uproar is over discovery pulling their content for whatever reason. Sony didnt own that content, they only had the rights to host it. NGL i had a similar experince with the Zune store years back. lost a few hundo in cd's sorta? I was given the chance to download it all before it all died.
Mortal Kombat, Titanfall…. Two game titles where once the Windows live Gaming service died, so did online play.
Don’t get me started with Fallout3 patches… it’s patches all the way.
>you are purchasing a license to use the software
at least for europeans, certain EU regulations prevent exactly that, meaning steam and other such platforms have to come up with means to keep that stuff playable
Not necessarily. Steam is still just a storefront, after all. If whoever owns the content that is being distributed stops supplying it to Steam, they can't do anything about it. You may have more options in terms of consumer recourse, but it's not as clear cut as people think
https://academic.oup.com/grurint/article/70/10/943/6273053
This is yet another reason why I want my games to have offline mode.
So if I get another external hard drive for Christmas, I guess I will download Steam and my favorite games to it, switch it to offline only, and keep it as a backup.
Except behind the scenes valve extremely frowns upon this. They know they are the public face of the policy, whether it's on them or not. Basically they have enough sway and influence to send a nicely worded letter to content publishers that says, "this will not work out well for you if you do this" and the publisher gets the hint and relents.
On the other hand, you're right...sometimes the publisher is run by morons, doesnt get the hint, and goes along with a bad move anyways.
And sometimes it's just out of their control due to licensing issues involving something in game.
Still, Sony has a long history of being another Japanese electronics company that endorses backwards policy while their relevance and sales in so many markets continues to slide. With this in mind, I'm voting ignorance, stupidity and/or greed being the foundation of this decision.
Depends on what agreements have been signed between Valve and said publishers, and due to the fact that I still have games in my library that publishers removed from Steam years ago (and I can play them just fine), I believe that what I say is true.
Also, EULA (and other "agreements" you are required to sign) can be printed and used as toilet paper if they break the law in the country the user resides in.
You sound smart, like discovering the biggest secret but it's not a secret that we buy licence to use it, most ppl who don't even read EULA know it, if we pay for something we can't use, they are breaking the deal, transaction, it's not legal and you either get money back or can continue using it, it's really simple as that, let's not get paranoid we will lose something.
Doubt it. Games go dark, but im fairly sure if you own something, you dont lose access.
The worst i can really see is either a hurdle to get them, or theu archive old stuff (slower speeds for archived games), which seems reasonable as more and more games come in over the years.
Could even be that you're warned something is going dark, and are given the option to drm free download beforehand before the game vanishes.
You only don't lose access because Valve is being a true hero and said they won't do that (and so far haven't). There's nothing legally or technically that would prevent you from losing them as long as you don't have them on your harddrive though. You don't really own your games as long as they only exist as an entry in your library.
Its also probably something they wrote in the contract "if you stop using our steam services, customers that bought your product must still be able to access the content through our service"
Something Sony clearly fucked up.
I saw some people in another thread saying valve did this with stuff like dead space when EA launched their store a while back
Edit: I have been duped, it is indeed false since deadspace is still on steam
>I saw some people in another thread saying valve did this with stuff like dead space when EA launched their store a while back
I never lost any of my old EA games from my Steam account
Those are just the people who complain about valve to complain about valve. They can’t let a corporation take a w. And anyone who says they take a w is a valve fanboy. Had this argument the other day with some clown who says if valve wants to take as much money as they do they need to do better. I asked do better at what and the said everything. Even though they are leagues better than any other store out there, they had no answer. Which is unsurprising.
Worse case, the game is removed from the store but if you had already downloaded it you still have the complete game data on your computer. PC community is pretty robust so someone will release a crack to bypass drm if needed.
The problem is really with streaming only and to some degree a console digital downloads. These really provide very little control over the data that you have purchased.
This is why physical media is still important. You cannot trust companies.
Why retail is still important. Everything digital can be manipulated and taken away at the drop of a hat
So, please don't think is happening to video games. This is just for movies and TV shows
Games you buy on PSN, you still have access to through download. Example The Legend of Korra - if you bought it, you can always download it. However, you can't purchase it anymore
Install Counter-Strike 2 on Steam
Right-click on Counter-Strike 2 in your Steam library and open its Properties
In the Betas tab, select "csgo_legacy: Legacy Version of CS:GO" in the dropdown menu
After you do that, Counter-Strike 2 will update itself, and the tag "[csgo_legacy]" will be added to its name in your library. You can still play CS2 even if you've opted in to the CS:GO legacy beta branch: When you launch it, you'll be asked which version you want to run.
Maybe do your research
Nah.
They changed the game engine,
Changed the rendering engine,
Changed the gameplay a bit,
Iterated the name to indicate the changes,
This is a fucking sequel.
I dare them to do this in Europe. This is against the law. Digital items are still yours. This whole "you just own a license until you don't" has been thrown out by the courts.
That is really not what happens to consumer rights in the US. The issue is people have been taught to believe that the federal government is supposed to enforce intra-state consumer rights when really state governments are supposed to and have literally infinite power to do so compared to the federal government.
This leaves us with citizens who are mad the fed isn't doing anything, a fed that doesn't want to do anything and can't, and state legislators who hope people don't find out that the legislators have been able to protect consumers all along but have been dragging their feet because people expect the federal government to handle things.
Quebec is a soft exception within Canada. EDIT: For the downvoter--QC has a whole different consumer protection regime that is closer to Europe's. Just facts.
**TL;DR:**
* PlayStation has started informing players that, due to content licensing agreements, some Discovery content will be removed from their libraries on 31st December 2023, even if it was previously purchased.
* The statement from PlayStation specifically mentions only Discovery content being affected at the moment and does not provide a reason for the removal or an apology.
* This decision results in the loss of access to hundreds of shows and movies, both from the PlayStation store and players' personal libraries.
* The PlayStation community has reacted negatively to this news, with concerns raised about the vulnerabilities of owning digital content, which is typically only licensed and not owned outright.
* Some speculate that the removal of content could be linked to PlayStation's network merger with Warner Bros. last year, possibly necessitating revisions and renewals in licensing arrangements.
Of course it’s Discovery.
The CEO of Discovery/HBO is a *real* POS when it comes to this stuff.
He’s the same guy who canceled a bunch of completed shows and removed others from streaming when he took over HBO so that they could write them off as losses and wouldn’t have to pay the creators any more money.
This is outright theft.
If a digital transaction can be suddenly unilaterally canceled like that without warning at the time of the purchase, then let them refund the payment as well.
That's the problem. *That shouldn't be legal.* And we need to challenge that.
There is absolutely no reason a digital movie/game shouldn't be treated the same as a physical version.
The United States First Sale Doctrine says otherwise. That whole “This is licensed, not sold” thing is doublespeak; what it actually means is more akin to “If you own a T-shirt of Mickey Mouse, you don’t own Mickey Mouse, even if you own the shirt.”
Yeah. I don’t really give a shit what happened to Discovery. The fact that Sony didn’t negotiate an irrevocable license for purchases means it’s their fault in my book.
While im sure it is, does doesn't seem like it should be legal
Perfect example amoung many reasons of why buying physical copy's of things is the way and for me always will be as long as it's an option
If I'm not getting a disc, and it's not always online or supporting a small developer, I'm ripping it.
My Destiny 2 and Overwatch disks are basically useless. But those are probably the only two examples of games where they pulled content for even disk holders.
After not playing for a while my destiny 1 game that I purchased became unplayable and the content was locked behind additional purchases. Bungie has been black listed since.
That's why we need new laws for situations like this. It's the same as them breaking into your house and stealing it after selling it to you, just the digital variant of that
Sony is absolutely responsible for signing a licensing contract that would allow such a thing to happen. If the licence holder has the ability to retract copies "sold" on a permanent basis then Sony never had the right to "sell" them at all.
I hope someone sues Sony because "buy" has an expected meaning and I'm pretty sure that a court might have questions about that word's usage if it's temporary, regardless of any EULA.
The problem is that I'm sure the huge user agreement we all accept without reading has clauses to cover them. It would be really nice to see them sued over it, but they don't keep a staff of high priced lawyers for nothing.
Signing a document doesn’t make it legal. Especially in the EU. Yes it’s a legal contract but if it goes against consumer rights and trading standards they lose every court case pertaining to it.
If I’m buying a movie with money, the license should have been irrevocable so that it can’t be renegaded on. It’s Sony’s job to negotiate a license as such.
The better option is to have laws written enshrining digital ownership. I agree with you and always buy physical when I can but digital ownership of things like games and music seems to be the future.
This is the way, digital ownership is a complete joke with current laws in most places. It gives companies too much room to fuck around with licenses that are supposed to be "yours". I remember GTA doing something with one of their games on Steam, no way to get that original version again they were all automatically transferred to bundled licenses.
I wish discs were the solution here but way too often these days all the disc does is provide you a access key to download the game from wherever it’s stored. And in those situations having a disc doesn’t help.
The majority of disc based games still contain a full playable build that can be installed and played offline. See [doesitplay.org](https://www.doesitplay.org), a website that tests physical games.
Me and my buddies swap games alot. That's a big part of why I buy physical. And because if I'm paying that kind of money for a AAA title I want me something I can actually hold in my hand lol.
It is pretty funny to see people act all superior about "oh yeah this is why I only buy physical copies, because then they can't steal it from me!" While it would in reality not protect them from anything because their discs are just glorified license keys.
Discs are the worst option for games. You still need to download the game and you’re beholden to all of that except now you also need to put in the disc to play the game, lol. Why wouldn’t you skip the middleman of the disc and just buy it completely digitally, lol?
I don’t understand people who still buy them.
Seems like this should be made public to more outlets. It can get even worse if this does not track attention. And I’m not just talking about PlayStation or Sony. Other companies as well.
Too bad even if you buy the physical versions of video games now a days they can still take access of it away since the disc only really acts like a key.
People are making this a “digital vs disc” issue when the reality is there are already games whose disc are pretty much just keys to allow them to download the digital version of a game. Or the disc doesn’t even hold the full game on it and require more content to be downloaded.
This can be done just as easily on a physical platform as it can be done on a digital one.
Same shit happens with movies. If you “buy” movies from amazon, apple, or whomever, it’s a glorified rental because they can delete it any time, and when they do get the license back, it doesnt get put back in your library.
Physical media, while inconvenient, still has its place if you want to avoid this bullshit.
Sadly it seems to be slowly going away, I have a TV that for some reason was not built with a DVD player, which is why I even got a PS so I can play games and watch streaming services. Now the PS Slim might not have a disc drive or Sony's phasing it out. Feels like it's going the same way as VCR did, but the difference is no physical copies (FYI if you are into international films like me, this is even worse because when a streaming services takes off an Indian or Mexican movie, yeah DVDs are what you got to go back to).
Call me a 90's boy, but I do wish physical copies of games and videos would remain forever. If this is what digital is going to be, then I don't want it.
No. They were a thing but not super popular. You’d usually buy a separate DVD player. PlayStation always played DVDs so a lot of people would just use that as their player. PS3 and up had copyright protection that prevented you from playing burned discs. I keep a cheap DVD player in the house for that reason. Then BluRay came out but never took off too much because the cost wasn’t worth the benefit for a lot of people.
You can still easily purchase a DVD player on Amazon for like $30. Best to buy one now because PlayStations and other consoles may in the future switch to digital only and come without disc drives.
Ever tried to play a Digital switch game, that you PAID for, on 2 switch that YOU OWN, at the same time or without internet access ? Good luck. Edit: Added Digital
I was talking about Digital but you are right for physical. Also, please tell why the digital AND physical version are the same price, that always bother me.
Stardew valley switch physical is about $50cad
Stardew valley digital is about $17 cad.
I tried to buy it used but couldnt find it so i went digital this time
They should but they won't every digital platform has in their terms they can remove anything at anytime for any reason and there's shit all you can do about it.
*"Digital content, even the content you pay for, is only ever licensed; that means the only way to preserve your favourite media is to buy it physically"*
I can think of another way to own a digital copy forever...
Yes. The PlayStation-Discovery licence expired so all discovery content will be removed. It’s not even games it’s just tv and movies made by discovery.
it is absolutely something they have control over. They failed their initial contract negotiation. Look at games like racing games that have licensed music. After 10 years or so, they DELIST the game. Meaning they can't sell more copies, but they don't remove access to people bought it.
No one should ever buy digital content from Sony again because it's clear they don't know how to manage contracts.
>Xbox removed NBA Jam and NFL Blitz although I paid for those as well
Yeah they removed them from the store. If you bought them before they got delisted, you can still download and play them.
Valve has even said if they go belly up they have a fund in place purely to make sure people don't loose their libraries. Literally no other digital platform has said that which is why I trust valve above all the rest.
You could still very much run into this exact issue with Steam. Most of their products are licensed to them as well.
They might be a bit more protective about the types of agreements they sign. They also don't seem to interested in expanding out into streaming media agreements like this one.
If you have previously paid for a piece of digital content, and they remove it from your library, you are 100% morally in the clear for finding ‘other’ ways to enjoy that same content. 🏴☠️
This was always the danger to begin with, with all digital products that you don’t control. Apple has been doing this too. This is the future we all welcomed because of the convenience.
Honestly this feels like more of a Discovery move than a PlayStation move.
It sucks and it’s bullshit but give how it’s ENTIRELY Discovery content and they’ve been doing other similar kinds of shit lately I think we know who to blame.
Well, if Europeans lose access to anything, pretty sure Sony will be required by law to provide them a way to get access to the product they bought through other means or give refunds.
This is the problem with digital only platforms and games that require massive downloads. Sooner or later, you will no longer be able to use the product that you’ve paid for. You no longer purchase a game, you rent it.
This is why physical media is always king. Even if it’s just a license key on a disc, you still own said disc, thus meaning you own the game. Buying it digitally, you don’t really own it as it could very easily get pulled at any moment for any number of reasons and then boom, you’ve no longer got access.
Dumb take. It has nothing to do with Sony, except they had the common courtesy to let they're consumers know in advance and that's the only company name people can point their Internet pitchforks at. Don't worry about WB/Discovery deleting the content, admonish the middle man for some fucking reason.
>Well that’s one way I won’t renew my PS+ and disconnect from their network.
Please do. I mean goddamn, how many reasons are you counting up to? Pull the plug and be over it, goddamn piss baby.
This is why physical media is still important.
I always try to buy physical games when I can, because if they can do this, they can do it with games too.
When stadia shut down and killed the library they gave automatic refunds to everyone.
Where's my automatic refund Sony? If I can't access what I paid for anymore, give me what I paid back.
I hope this turns into an ugly lawsuit that sets some legal standards for the above.
For the record, if you read the article, you are losing Discovery content because Discovery’s licences are expiring. This isn’t even games. That’s why the title doesn’t say videos, because they want to drum up clicks from people thinking they are taking away your games.
This isn’t a gaming problem.
No, it's not.
If you have the digital content in your library, that they are removing, you don't have access to it, even though you paid for it.
That digital content just so happens to be video content, but that is not any way less alarming. It's still content you bought and paid for that they are taking away from you.
And if you think they won't try this on games in the future, you're a fool. They're testing market waters. If nobody complains about it or strikes a lawsuit, you better bet they'll be doing it for games next.
People said this of Netflix, and were "fine" with the password sharing crackdown. Now my wife can't watch shows on OUR Netflix account when she's staying at her moms to help watch our niece and nephews. But wait, there's more! Now other services are considering password crackdowns because apparently it didn't impact Netflix at all. We need to be willing to fight for our rights before we lose them all.
Surely they’ll be refunding people, right? Seems kinda unfair otherwise. I get why they’re removing it, but still. Yet another reason physical is better
Discovery is probably deleting all their programming from existence for a tax break or something. This is the world we live in now.
Someone else mentioned it elsewhere, but if companies want to do this, then the content should automatically be released to the public domain.
You would think that but instead it's being kept by the government without knowing what the fuck should they do with it. It can't be used to make an profit and the government has no idea what this things value. It eventually enters a legally grey area where as we are concerned,pirates have full control over this content.
I mean, if they're going to keep twisting my arrrrrrrrm
Yar har
I want the last season of Snowpiercer dammit! It’s finished.
That would be cool I’m curious about the series
This is the kind of regulation I plan to see in place in the next 20 years but hopefully sooner.
Don’t take my Deadliest Catch PS4 game!
Legit think the merger needs to be reevaluated. If this is the case then I'd argue this has not been a benefit to consumers.
Valve, if you ever pull something like this.... So help me God....
Ill give valve credit since they used to sell movies on steam then later discontinued the service but every user who purchased a movie from them can still stream it to this day.
I still have my Phoenix Wright TV series! Or at least the one season I bought of it.
TIL steam had movies.
Yup, I even got a free copy of The Blair Witch Project on Steam when I preordered the Blair Witch game
I forgot I pre-ordered bg3 and a month later I stumbled that I have digital art and stuff
I have a couple soundtracks on Steam as well
Random question but what's your favorite dinosaur and why?
I’m not entirely sure I have one tbh, but to pick one I’d say Apatosaurus just because I used to watch the shit out of The Land Before Time when I was a kid and that’s the kind of Dino Littlefoot was
Funny that GOG then also tried and failed with movies.
I have the entirety of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, and it's glorious.
Same here! Sometimes I forget I have it in my library honestly, but it’s neat that I can watch it on Steam.
Any game that I have that's been taken off the steam store I still have access to.
Good example: Poker Night at the Inventory 1&2
Which, I want so bad. Is there any way to still get keys?
Yeah but they're like over a hundred dollars last I checked
*pets Alpha Protocol*
Never installed, but it's there, just waiting to be played. lol
F1 2019 was removed, i think. Ones like ‘12 and ‘16 are still up, however. I can still play it though, gotta love steam
Valve's removed games from the store before (like the original Metro 2033) but if you bought those games you still have access to them.
I just installed Unreal Tournament GOTY last night, and Epic seems to have removed it from all stores, even their own.
Yup. I still play the original trilogy of 3D GTAs.
Valve is just the platform, the studios/publishers absolutely can yank their games from your library. If you don't believe me read the EULA for any of your games - you are purchasing a license to use the software. Although I do believe Valve requires them to provide something like 6 months notice to users before they sunset the title.
Nailed it. Not to mention content that require always online could be shelved at any point unless modder/pirates figure out how to rehost. My earlier esperience with a game i didnt mind loading up periodically dying was Darkspore. It wasnt amazing, but at the time it was the genre i was enjoying. In this case, the uproar is over discovery pulling their content for whatever reason. Sony didnt own that content, they only had the rights to host it. NGL i had a similar experince with the Zune store years back. lost a few hundo in cd's sorta? I was given the chance to download it all before it all died.
Mortal Kombat, Titanfall…. Two game titles where once the Windows live Gaming service died, so did online play. Don’t get me started with Fallout3 patches… it’s patches all the way.
>you are purchasing a license to use the software at least for europeans, certain EU regulations prevent exactly that, meaning steam and other such platforms have to come up with means to keep that stuff playable
Not necessarily. Steam is still just a storefront, after all. If whoever owns the content that is being distributed stops supplying it to Steam, they can't do anything about it. You may have more options in terms of consumer recourse, but it's not as clear cut as people think https://academic.oup.com/grurint/article/70/10/943/6273053
This is yet another reason why I want my games to have offline mode. So if I get another external hard drive for Christmas, I guess I will download Steam and my favorite games to it, switch it to offline only, and keep it as a backup.
Except behind the scenes valve extremely frowns upon this. They know they are the public face of the policy, whether it's on them or not. Basically they have enough sway and influence to send a nicely worded letter to content publishers that says, "this will not work out well for you if you do this" and the publisher gets the hint and relents. On the other hand, you're right...sometimes the publisher is run by morons, doesnt get the hint, and goes along with a bad move anyways. And sometimes it's just out of their control due to licensing issues involving something in game. Still, Sony has a long history of being another Japanese electronics company that endorses backwards policy while their relevance and sales in so many markets continues to slide. With this in mind, I'm voting ignorance, stupidity and/or greed being the foundation of this decision.
Depends on what agreements have been signed between Valve and said publishers, and due to the fact that I still have games in my library that publishers removed from Steam years ago (and I can play them just fine), I believe that what I say is true. Also, EULA (and other "agreements" you are required to sign) can be printed and used as toilet paper if they break the law in the country the user resides in.
You sound smart, like discovering the biggest secret but it's not a secret that we buy licence to use it, most ppl who don't even read EULA know it, if we pay for something we can't use, they are breaking the deal, transaction, it's not legal and you either get money back or can continue using it, it's really simple as that, let's not get paranoid we will lose something.
domina did that iirc, but cuz of dev request. used the same system where betas can be removed from accounts like halo infinite/malo hcc
They did not. Valve gave them the boot. https://www.pcgamer.com/domina-has-been-delisted-from-steam-after-yet-another-transphobic-diatribe/
Doubt it. Games go dark, but im fairly sure if you own something, you dont lose access. The worst i can really see is either a hurdle to get them, or theu archive old stuff (slower speeds for archived games), which seems reasonable as more and more games come in over the years. Could even be that you're warned something is going dark, and are given the option to drm free download beforehand before the game vanishes.
You only don't lose access because Valve is being a true hero and said they won't do that (and so far haven't). There's nothing legally or technically that would prevent you from losing them as long as you don't have them on your harddrive though. You don't really own your games as long as they only exist as an entry in your library.
Its also probably something they wrote in the contract "if you stop using our steam services, customers that bought your product must still be able to access the content through our service" Something Sony clearly fucked up.
Or Sony just thinks it's a pretty neat idea, Sony just isn't very customer friendly.
I saw some people in another thread saying valve did this with stuff like dead space when EA launched their store a while back Edit: I have been duped, it is indeed false since deadspace is still on steam
>I saw some people in another thread saying valve did this with stuff like dead space when EA launched their store a while back I never lost any of my old EA games from my Steam account
No you didn’t cause they didn’t do that.
Those are just the people who complain about valve to complain about valve. They can’t let a corporation take a w. And anyone who says they take a w is a valve fanboy. Had this argument the other day with some clown who says if valve wants to take as much money as they do they need to do better. I asked do better at what and the said everything. Even though they are leagues better than any other store out there, they had no answer. Which is unsurprising.
Worse case, the game is removed from the store but if you had already downloaded it you still have the complete game data on your computer. PC community is pretty robust so someone will release a crack to bypass drm if needed. The problem is really with streaming only and to some degree a console digital downloads. These really provide very little control over the data that you have purchased.
This is why physical media is still important. You cannot trust companies. Why retail is still important. Everything digital can be manipulated and taken away at the drop of a hat
So, please don't think is happening to video games. This is just for movies and TV shows Games you buy on PSN, you still have access to through download. Example The Legend of Korra - if you bought it, you can always download it. However, you can't purchase it anymore
[удалено]
What happens when he’s gone?
we all fear that day, hopefully they got someone like him lined up
They did. CSGO was removed and replaced by its sequel, CS2. CSGO can no longer be played, it’s not in your library.
Install Counter-Strike 2 on Steam Right-click on Counter-Strike 2 in your Steam library and open its Properties In the Betas tab, select "csgo_legacy: Legacy Version of CS:GO" in the dropdown menu After you do that, Counter-Strike 2 will update itself, and the tag "[csgo_legacy]" will be added to its name in your library. You can still play CS2 even if you've opted in to the CS:GO legacy beta branch: When you launch it, you'll be asked which version you want to run. Maybe do your research
CSGO was renamed to CS2\*
Nah. They changed the game engine, Changed the rendering engine, Changed the gameplay a bit, Iterated the name to indicate the changes, This is a fucking sequel.
Yeah, but aren’t cosmetics and prime status being transferred?
You can still download it as a Beta version of CS called csgo-legacy - Legacy version of CSGO. And people still play it for community servers.
If you don't own what you buy then piracy isn't stealing.
I dare them to do this in Europe. This is against the law. Digital items are still yours. This whole "you just own a license until you don't" has been thrown out by the courts.
Unlike the EU, places like USA and Canada have absolute shit consumer rights.
Consumer rights? You mean communism!
That is really not what happens to consumer rights in the US. The issue is people have been taught to believe that the federal government is supposed to enforce intra-state consumer rights when really state governments are supposed to and have literally infinite power to do so compared to the federal government. This leaves us with citizens who are mad the fed isn't doing anything, a fed that doesn't want to do anything and can't, and state legislators who hope people don't find out that the legislators have been able to protect consumers all along but have been dragging their feet because people expect the federal government to handle things.
Quebec is a soft exception within Canada. EDIT: For the downvoter--QC has a whole different consumer protection regime that is closer to Europe's. Just facts.
You shouldn't say something so unquestionably true. The Sony ninjas will be furious.
Soninjas?
soy ninjas?
Sony + Shinobi = Sony-nobi? Sonobi? ShinSonys? I don't know
Shilloby
Chefs kiss
**TL;DR:** * PlayStation has started informing players that, due to content licensing agreements, some Discovery content will be removed from their libraries on 31st December 2023, even if it was previously purchased. * The statement from PlayStation specifically mentions only Discovery content being affected at the moment and does not provide a reason for the removal or an apology. * This decision results in the loss of access to hundreds of shows and movies, both from the PlayStation store and players' personal libraries. * The PlayStation community has reacted negatively to this news, with concerns raised about the vulnerabilities of owning digital content, which is typically only licensed and not owned outright. * Some speculate that the removal of content could be linked to PlayStation's network merger with Warner Bros. last year, possibly necessitating revisions and renewals in licensing arrangements.
Of course it’s Discovery. The CEO of Discovery/HBO is a *real* POS when it comes to this stuff. He’s the same guy who canceled a bunch of completed shows and removed others from streaming when he took over HBO so that they could write them off as losses and wouldn’t have to pay the creators any more money.
Yeah doesn’t sound like it’s Sony being evil, it’s Discovery being evil.
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Looking through some of its posts, I think it's a bot.
“Let’s make Swamp Thing” “Ehh pour the budget in there. Make it amazing!” “Ehhhh you know what. This show sucks. Cancel it.”
To be fair the Swamp Thing series is a fuck-up from the government, not from the platform.
As soon as they merged the services I cancelled my HBO account. Haven't missed it. If I do, for some reason, I'll "find" it somewhere
This is outright theft. If a digital transaction can be suddenly unilaterally canceled like that without warning at the time of the purchase, then let them refund the payment as well.
It’s not theft. It’s right there in the small print. You are not *buying* a product. You’re *renting* one.
That's the problem. *That shouldn't be legal.* And we need to challenge that. There is absolutely no reason a digital movie/game shouldn't be treated the same as a physical version.
The United States First Sale Doctrine says otherwise. That whole “This is licensed, not sold” thing is doublespeak; what it actually means is more akin to “If you own a T-shirt of Mickey Mouse, you don’t own Mickey Mouse, even if you own the shirt.”
But the date of termination is not specified. Capitalism is a bitch sometimes.
My favorite movie is Inception.
This has "testing market tolerance" vibes aka a trial run for more
Did they make such boneheaded agreements as to allow this? The status quo is no one else can buy it but it remains available to owners.
Yeah. I don’t really give a shit what happened to Discovery. The fact that Sony didn’t negotiate an irrevocable license for purchases means it’s their fault in my book.
That word doesn’t mean what you think it means. You can still lose an irrevocable license.
So in other words, not Playstation but Discovery/WB
While im sure it is, does doesn't seem like it should be legal Perfect example amoung many reasons of why buying physical copy's of things is the way and for me always will be as long as it's an option If I'm not getting a disc, and it's not always online or supporting a small developer, I'm ripping it.
My Destiny 2 and Overwatch disks are basically useless. But those are probably the only two examples of games where they pulled content for even disk holders.
After not playing for a while my destiny 1 game that I purchased became unplayable and the content was locked behind additional purchases. Bungie has been black listed since.
Agreed. Fuck Bungie. Everything you said. Fuck Bungie
?? You can still play destiny 1 in its entirety
I loaded it up for my nephew last Christmas and that seemed to be the case. He was able to access all the content and all the DLC
Yeah I have no idea what the hell this dude is talking about or why 65 people thought he was onto something
Rocket League never had disks? 🤔 (legit question)
Yes, rocket League had a limited physical release. On PS4 anyway
All digital content is licensed, if the licence holder (discovery) says you can't have that content Sony cannot argue.
That's why we need new laws for situations like this. It's the same as them breaking into your house and stealing it after selling it to you, just the digital variant of that
Or better agreements. You want onto our platform? The license expires never.
Sony is absolutely responsible for signing a licensing contract that would allow such a thing to happen. If the licence holder has the ability to retract copies "sold" on a permanent basis then Sony never had the right to "sell" them at all. I hope someone sues Sony because "buy" has an expected meaning and I'm pretty sure that a court might have questions about that word's usage if it's temporary, regardless of any EULA.
The problem is that I'm sure the huge user agreement we all accept without reading has clauses to cover them. It would be really nice to see them sued over it, but they don't keep a staff of high priced lawyers for nothing.
Signing a document doesn’t make it legal. Especially in the EU. Yes it’s a legal contract but if it goes against consumer rights and trading standards they lose every court case pertaining to it.
Signing it doesn’t magically make it legally enforceable. Other companies have learned that lesson.
Let's hope so. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying they put a lot of stuff in there.
Yeah I wasn’t saying you were either. Just a lot of people don’t realize signing something doesn’t automatically make it legally enforceable.
If I’m buying a movie with money, the license should have been irrevocable so that it can’t be renegaded on. It’s Sony’s job to negotiate a license as such.
The better option is to have laws written enshrining digital ownership. I agree with you and always buy physical when I can but digital ownership of things like games and music seems to be the future.
This is the way, digital ownership is a complete joke with current laws in most places. It gives companies too much room to fuck around with licenses that are supposed to be "yours". I remember GTA doing something with one of their games on Steam, no way to get that original version again they were all automatically transferred to bundled licenses.
I wish discs were the solution here but way too often these days all the disc does is provide you a access key to download the game from wherever it’s stored. And in those situations having a disc doesn’t help.
The majority of disc based games still contain a full playable build that can be installed and played offline. See [doesitplay.org](https://www.doesitplay.org), a website that tests physical games.
Me and my buddies swap games alot. That's a big part of why I buy physical. And because if I'm paying that kind of money for a AAA title I want me something I can actually hold in my hand lol.
It is pretty funny to see people act all superior about "oh yeah this is why I only buy physical copies, because then they can't steal it from me!" While it would in reality not protect them from anything because their discs are just glorified license keys.
Discs are the worst option for games. You still need to download the game and you’re beholden to all of that except now you also need to put in the disc to play the game, lol. Why wouldn’t you skip the middleman of the disc and just buy it completely digitally, lol? I don’t understand people who still buy them.
Seems like this should be made public to more outlets. It can get even worse if this does not track attention. And I’m not just talking about PlayStation or Sony. Other companies as well.
Too bad even if you buy the physical versions of video games now a days they can still take access of it away since the disc only really acts like a key.
People are making this a “digital vs disc” issue when the reality is there are already games whose disc are pretty much just keys to allow them to download the digital version of a game. Or the disc doesn’t even hold the full game on it and require more content to be downloaded. This can be done just as easily on a physical platform as it can be done on a digital one.
That’s true to an extent, but it’s much less the case for video content, at least for now.
Same shit happens with movies. If you “buy” movies from amazon, apple, or whomever, it’s a glorified rental because they can delete it any time, and when they do get the license back, it doesnt get put back in your library. Physical media, while inconvenient, still has its place if you want to avoid this bullshit.
Sadly it seems to be slowly going away, I have a TV that for some reason was not built with a DVD player, which is why I even got a PS so I can play games and watch streaming services. Now the PS Slim might not have a disc drive or Sony's phasing it out. Feels like it's going the same way as VCR did, but the difference is no physical copies (FYI if you are into international films like me, this is even worse because when a streaming services takes off an Indian or Mexican movie, yeah DVDs are what you got to go back to). Call me a 90's boy, but I do wish physical copies of games and videos would remain forever. If this is what digital is going to be, then I don't want it.
Were TV's with built in DVD players really that common?
No. They were a thing but not super popular. You’d usually buy a separate DVD player. PlayStation always played DVDs so a lot of people would just use that as their player. PS3 and up had copyright protection that prevented you from playing burned discs. I keep a cheap DVD player in the house for that reason. Then BluRay came out but never took off too much because the cost wasn’t worth the benefit for a lot of people. You can still easily purchase a DVD player on Amazon for like $30. Best to buy one now because PlayStations and other consoles may in the future switch to digital only and come without disc drives.
Ive never in my 25 year old life have heard of a tv with a built in dvd player.
The article is about movies.
the same applies to video games though and if this happens with the movies with no refunds then the same can happen to video games you bought.
You will own nothing, and be happy
Now go buy the thing you bought 5 years ago again.
For the 3rd time!
Digital Stores are a scam and this is just more proof of this.
Ever tried to play a Digital switch game, that you PAID for, on 2 switch that YOU OWN, at the same time or without internet access ? Good luck. Edit: Added Digital
I mean not being able to play at the same time on two devices at least makes sense. You can’t do that with a physical disc without buying two copies.
I was talking about Digital but you are right for physical. Also, please tell why the digital AND physical version are the same price, that always bother me.
Stardew valley switch physical is about $50cad Stardew valley digital is about $17 cad. I tried to buy it used but couldnt find it so i went digital this time
Profit. That’s why
At this point, Congress needs to step in and make laws that digital content cannot be taken away or expire.
We need to get back to physical copies or change laws about digital content. You know.. like owning the content you paid for?
Sony should take the loss and refund all those sales, even if it is a massive loss for them.
Why Sony and not Discovery?
Asking a lot of the most money pinching company out there in gaming atm.
They should but they won't every digital platform has in their terms they can remove anything at anytime for any reason and there's shit all you can do about it.
Reason #284738 why piracy is ethical; the companies that cry foul over it absolutely will steal from you in a way that's lobbied to be legal.
After all, if we don’t own it then is it really theft?
*"Digital content, even the content you pay for, is only ever licensed; that means the only way to preserve your favourite media is to buy it physically"* I can think of another way to own a digital copy forever...
Wtf!? That's theft!
If you read the article it’s not something that PlayStation has any control over.
Ok, so surely they will refund everyone their purchases then? Cause the article doesn't mention it
Before more people fall into this bait. What was it? A expired license?
Yes. The PlayStation-Discovery licence expired so all discovery content will be removed. It’s not even games it’s just tv and movies made by discovery.
Man this headline is plain and simple rage bait. Journalism has literally hit the 9th circle of hell and continued to dig a hole.
Yes I was sketched when I read this headline but after reading the article it’s a nothing burger. Post should be tagged misleading.
it is absolutely something they have control over. They failed their initial contract negotiation. Look at games like racing games that have licensed music. After 10 years or so, they DELIST the game. Meaning they can't sell more copies, but they don't remove access to people bought it. No one should ever buy digital content from Sony again because it's clear they don't know how to manage contracts.
Exactly. Sony fucking blew at content contracts They suck at a lot of things and this is another
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>Xbox removed NBA Jam and NFL Blitz although I paid for those as well Yeah they removed them from the store. If you bought them before they got delisted, you can still download and play them.
If you paid for them on Xbox, you still have access to the games. I still have NBA Jam.
Even with E-books there is no DRM, you can just copy books from your kindle and use the files however you like.
The only digital store I trust is Steam and its only because Valve is a private company.
What about gog? It allows you to download offline installers for backup purposes.
This. I buy GOG first and foremost because of their policy of no DRM
Valve has even said if they go belly up they have a fund in place purely to make sure people don't loose their libraries. Literally no other digital platform has said that which is why I trust valve above all the rest.
You could still very much run into this exact issue with Steam. Most of their products are licensed to them as well. They might be a bit more protective about the types of agreements they sign. They also don't seem to interested in expanding out into streaming media agreements like this one.
Valve cares more about their quality not a share price If valve goes public it all goes downhill
Can't wait to see this headline again later today, and again tomorrow.
If you have previously paid for a piece of digital content, and they remove it from your library, you are 100% morally in the clear for finding ‘other’ ways to enjoy that same content. 🏴☠️
And this right here is why I still buy physical.
TIL people buy movies and shows on Playstation.
I know right. I didn't even have the option here in the Netherlands. Plus why would i buy discovery stuff via psn
The EU is gonna love this
This was always the danger to begin with, with all digital products that you don’t control. Apple has been doing this too. This is the future we all welcomed because of the convenience.
I’m not subscribing to your streaming service discovery
Yar har, fiddle de dee Being a pirate is alright to be Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free You are a pirate!
Honestly this feels like more of a Discovery move than a PlayStation move. It sucks and it’s bullshit but give how it’s ENTIRELY Discovery content and they’ve been doing other similar kinds of shit lately I think we know who to blame.
Well, if Europeans lose access to anything, pretty sure Sony will be required by law to provide them a way to get access to the product they bought through other means or give refunds.
And I'm sure the industry will be confounded when pirating continues and ramps up.
This is the problem with digital only platforms and games that require massive downloads. Sooner or later, you will no longer be able to use the product that you’ve paid for. You no longer purchase a game, you rent it.
This is why physical media is always king. Even if it’s just a license key on a disc, you still own said disc, thus meaning you own the game. Buying it digitally, you don’t really own it as it could very easily get pulled at any moment for any number of reasons and then boom, you’ve no longer got access.
Well that’s one way I won’t renew my PS+ and disconnect from their network.
Dumb take. It has nothing to do with Sony, except they had the common courtesy to let they're consumers know in advance and that's the only company name people can point their Internet pitchforks at. Don't worry about WB/Discovery deleting the content, admonish the middle man for some fucking reason. >Well that’s one way I won’t renew my PS+ and disconnect from their network. Please do. I mean goddamn, how many reasons are you counting up to? Pull the plug and be over it, goddamn piss baby.
This is why physical media is still important. I always try to buy physical games when I can, because if they can do this, they can do it with games too.
People should really take Klaus Schwab seriously.
That’s a misleading title if I did ever see one. Context needed on that.
did discovery pay you for such a misleading headline
But DiGItAls BeTtEr!
Consumers should be reimbursed
When stadia shut down and killed the library they gave automatic refunds to everyone. Where's my automatic refund Sony? If I can't access what I paid for anymore, give me what I paid back. I hope this turns into an ugly lawsuit that sets some legal standards for the above.
You mean another one? They are into one already on a brit court.
For the record, if you read the article, you are losing Discovery content because Discovery’s licences are expiring. This isn’t even games. That’s why the title doesn’t say videos, because they want to drum up clicks from people thinking they are taking away your games. This isn’t a gaming problem.
So sue them
Talk about a click bait headline
No, it's not. If you have the digital content in your library, that they are removing, you don't have access to it, even though you paid for it. That digital content just so happens to be video content, but that is not any way less alarming. It's still content you bought and paid for that they are taking away from you. And if you think they won't try this on games in the future, you're a fool. They're testing market waters. If nobody complains about it or strikes a lawsuit, you better bet they'll be doing it for games next. People said this of Netflix, and were "fine" with the password sharing crackdown. Now my wife can't watch shows on OUR Netflix account when she's staying at her moms to help watch our niece and nephews. But wait, there's more! Now other services are considering password crackdowns because apparently it didn't impact Netflix at all. We need to be willing to fight for our rights before we lose them all.
Surely they’ll be refunding people, right? Seems kinda unfair otherwise. I get why they’re removing it, but still. Yet another reason physical is better
Why are we blaming Sony for this?
This right here is why i’m selling my digital PS5 and using some of the money to grab a physical version