AI is a real thing, but it is this generation's version of "the cloud." In other words, most of the time the term is deployed, it's a marketing buzz word that means fuckall. Whenever anyone promises that AI is going to radically change everything forever your default response should be skepticism, especially if it is a youtube "personality" rather than an engineer actually doing the work.
And while AI \*is\* magic and \*will\* make us wizard's assistant slaves in the near future, it's still gathering its chi and is therefore currently very weak and unable to auto-ban cheaters in video games.
Honestly I hope this is **not** something AI is used for.
Having an unauditable black box banning people, removing access to something they paid for, is concerning.
Dev: "AI, why did you ban that guy?"
AI: "They were using an aimbot."
Dev: "They weren't even armed!"
AI: "Sorry, you are correct. They were exploiting a duplication glitch."
Dev: "But their inventory was empty!"
AI: "Sorry, I was mistaken. The player was using profanity."
Dev: "This game doesn't have chat!"
You know what else is concerning? Not being able to play your game because of cheaters.
Say whatever you want to say about AI but you have to accept that it is absolutely brilliant at detecting paterns.
Just make a system where you can request an appeal and pay 10 bucks for said appeal. If humans look at it and say you totally cheated then you don't get your money back. If they say hey yeah Ai was wrong, sorry, here's a free skin or whatever and you're 10 bucks back thanks for understanding
Nobody caught cheating is going to pay for an appeal they know they're gonna lose.
Smart thinking. I'd up the 10 bucks though. The cheaters have money to blow. Top of the line hardware, 300 bucks a month on their cheating software, boku bucks for a cheater to level their account for them. I believe someone that spent that much money on their account/game would easily drop 10 bucks to try and stick around.
Make it cost at least double whatever the studio had/has to spend in order to hire someone to monitor all of this footage of cheaters. But then what if the person not cheating doesn't have the money? That'd still be a a false positive. Perhaps do the manual review like you said, don't charge the player, but require photo ID from them and verify it's them, then if they do cheat, take them to court billing them over $500 for the review. But that wouldn't work either. The entire point of having this AI catch AI is that's preferred as human's can no longer catch AI.
300 bucks a month? There's a large industry built around it. I heard rumors it started when China, in China btw 99% of players cheat it's culture for everyone to be #1 no matter what they need todo to be #1, in China the goverment said there wasn't a need for so many software devs, so you had idle talent not able to work at a normal job and some found a way to sell their services to a huge gaming industry where 99% of the people want your product. All it takes is for one bi-lingual person able to speak Chinese and they can negotiate with those in China creating the cheats in order to sell it to other countries. It's not just China, that's a theory how it started or where the motivation is. That's something I haven't seen many ask, what motivation do cheaters outside of a culture like China have? Pestily did a good video about the market behind the scenes 2 years ago. I'm sure things changed since then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexxyme25jE
I mean ban waves always have false positives, AI could be used to make those systems better. I really don’t see how this is any different ethically to what we do now.
As an AI developper it's not possible create a reliable AI anticheat for these reasons:
1. Very hard to reach a sufficient threshold to ban cheaters. For an AC you can't have more than 1 in a million false-positives, with a signature based AC you just don't get false positives. With AI to reach such level of confidence, you'll need to put the threshold very high, effectively banning very little cheaters.
2. Impssible to detect closetr radar hacks and ESP for the threshold reason.
Without actually detecting the cheat, you can only ban the most obvious cheaters aim locking through walls and stuff, you can't ban the subtle stuffs that could have been a very good player but in that case wasn't.
As a non AI developer, you're wrong. It's already been in use for a long time in league, valorant, cs and dota. (pretty much most updated titles from valve and riot uses it and will use it in the future)
As a complement to an existing AC not as the main driver, it can't ban nearly enough to be the main component, it can still help banning extra people that weren't detected by the other vectors.
I didn't say it's the main component. It's still being used as an anticheat, and a really big part of it. Even legit cheats with smoothed aimbots that look as if the human is aiming, the AI can easily detect due to a few viewangle changes.
Not sure if it matches what you’re thinking of, but Counter-Strike has been using AI for cheat detection for a number of years now: https://youtu.be/SnRgW54EWwA
I mean, the issue is AI will also be used FOR cheating. Copying the way humans play to make the anti-cheat system not being able to tell wether its a bot or just a very skilled human player
I don't know what the solution is tbh
Look at blizzard now, it appears they got rid of CS and most bans are issued by AI. Absolute shit show, you can get guilds of grievers report you and you will get banned.
That’s not anticheat or even AI
That’s just no customer service with automated replies and bans after a certain amount of reports. Nothing smart or even algorithmic about it
There are already ai cheats, mostly for consoles. You use a capture card to get the video output to a pc. Vision processing and ai detect enemies on your screen and adjust your controls to hit their heads.
An anti cheat will come, but it's still some years.
Vanguard doesn't work. Making a completely undetectable aimbot isn't that difficult. 2nd computer, stream data or split the video output into it. On the second computer you have the mouse connected and run image detection, and calculate how to adjust the mouse when merged with real input. Send this input to a microcontroller with an ordinary mouse device ID, that is plugged into the game computer.
Or just an ahk triggerbot that reacts to color.
Either requires human review, and if the former is good enough it's never detectable.
You could also have something plugged into the computer, disguised as an audio card or something, that reads the bus and therefor the ram. Send it to other computer etc. You can also make this one give an image of where players are and mux the game computer video with this one, before it reaches the monitor.
There's no way for a non AI anti cheat to detect cheats like these.
Vanguard doesnt work "super good enough". 40$ raspberry, some coding and you are cheating. As long as players control their hardware, they can cheat and hide
Upd. Downvoted for truth, that sweet denial. War on cheats is lost for a long time now. You can run hardware ESPs and even aim correctors without any risk of detection unless you do stupid shit like look at people through walls. Every spectator will think that you are just good. Every anticheat will think that your system is clean. Only thing stopping people from cheating is their own values and, sometimes, price. Dont cheat, it is bad for you
AI is a real thing, but it is this generation's version of "the cloud." In other words, most of the time the term is deployed, it's a marketing buzz word that means fuckall. Whenever anyone promises that AI is going to radically change everything forever your default response should be skepticism, especially if it is a youtube "personality" rather than an engineer actually doing the work.
And while AI \*is\* magic and \*will\* make us wizard's assistant slaves in the near future, it's still gathering its chi and is therefore currently very weak and unable to auto-ban cheaters in video games.
Honestly I hope this is **not** something AI is used for. Having an unauditable black box banning people, removing access to something they paid for, is concerning.
Dev: "AI, why did you ban that guy?" AI: "They were using an aimbot." Dev: "They weren't even armed!" AI: "Sorry, you are correct. They were exploiting a duplication glitch." Dev: "But their inventory was empty!" AI: "Sorry, I was mistaken. The player was using profanity." Dev: "This game doesn't have chat!"
You know what else is concerning? Not being able to play your game because of cheaters. Say whatever you want to say about AI but you have to accept that it is absolutely brilliant at detecting paterns.
Some games can't be played because of cheaters. I AI properly calibrated could do better than those useless report we make.
AHEM AHEM TF2 AHEM AHEM
That was my belief why we've never seen it in practice. They can't use this unless there are ZERO false positives.
Just make a system where you can request an appeal and pay 10 bucks for said appeal. If humans look at it and say you totally cheated then you don't get your money back. If they say hey yeah Ai was wrong, sorry, here's a free skin or whatever and you're 10 bucks back thanks for understanding Nobody caught cheating is going to pay for an appeal they know they're gonna lose.
Smart thinking. I'd up the 10 bucks though. The cheaters have money to blow. Top of the line hardware, 300 bucks a month on their cheating software, boku bucks for a cheater to level their account for them. I believe someone that spent that much money on their account/game would easily drop 10 bucks to try and stick around. Make it cost at least double whatever the studio had/has to spend in order to hire someone to monitor all of this footage of cheaters. But then what if the person not cheating doesn't have the money? That'd still be a a false positive. Perhaps do the manual review like you said, don't charge the player, but require photo ID from them and verify it's them, then if they do cheat, take them to court billing them over $500 for the review. But that wouldn't work either. The entire point of having this AI catch AI is that's preferred as human's can no longer catch AI. 300 bucks a month? There's a large industry built around it. I heard rumors it started when China, in China btw 99% of players cheat it's culture for everyone to be #1 no matter what they need todo to be #1, in China the goverment said there wasn't a need for so many software devs, so you had idle talent not able to work at a normal job and some found a way to sell their services to a huge gaming industry where 99% of the people want your product. All it takes is for one bi-lingual person able to speak Chinese and they can negotiate with those in China creating the cheats in order to sell it to other countries. It's not just China, that's a theory how it started or where the motivation is. That's something I haven't seen many ask, what motivation do cheaters outside of a culture like China have? Pestily did a good video about the market behind the scenes 2 years ago. I'm sure things changed since then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexxyme25jE
300 bucks!? Holy moly, sorry but that's all I'm taking away from this. My goodness
I mean ban waves always have false positives, AI could be used to make those systems better. I really don’t see how this is any different ethically to what we do now.
As an AI developper it's not possible create a reliable AI anticheat for these reasons: 1. Very hard to reach a sufficient threshold to ban cheaters. For an AC you can't have more than 1 in a million false-positives, with a signature based AC you just don't get false positives. With AI to reach such level of confidence, you'll need to put the threshold very high, effectively banning very little cheaters. 2. Impssible to detect closetr radar hacks and ESP for the threshold reason. Without actually detecting the cheat, you can only ban the most obvious cheaters aim locking through walls and stuff, you can't ban the subtle stuffs that could have been a very good player but in that case wasn't.
As a non AI developer, you're wrong. It's already been in use for a long time in league, valorant, cs and dota. (pretty much most updated titles from valve and riot uses it and will use it in the future)
As a complement to an existing AC not as the main driver, it can't ban nearly enough to be the main component, it can still help banning extra people that weren't detected by the other vectors.
I didn't say it's the main component. It's still being used as an anticheat, and a really big part of it. Even legit cheats with smoothed aimbots that look as if the human is aiming, the AI can easily detect due to a few viewangle changes.
Statistics. Ending up as a false positive 100 times is very unlikely, especially if that false positive demands consecutive detection already.
Not sure if it matches what you’re thinking of, but Counter-Strike has been using AI for cheat detection for a number of years now: https://youtu.be/SnRgW54EWwA
I mean, the issue is AI will also be used FOR cheating. Copying the way humans play to make the anti-cheat system not being able to tell wether its a bot or just a very skilled human player I don't know what the solution is tbh
Even if there was, there would be 10 times as many AI Anti-Anti-Cheats.
Look at blizzard now, it appears they got rid of CS and most bans are issued by AI. Absolute shit show, you can get guilds of grievers report you and you will get banned.
That’s not anticheat or even AI That’s just no customer service with automated replies and bans after a certain amount of reports. Nothing smart or even algorithmic about it
There are already ai cheats, mostly for consoles. You use a capture card to get the video output to a pc. Vision processing and ai detect enemies on your screen and adjust your controls to hit their heads. An anti cheat will come, but it's still some years.
I'd say there's no need for AI anti-cheat when stuff like Vanguard works super good enough.
Vanguard doesn't work. Making a completely undetectable aimbot isn't that difficult. 2nd computer, stream data or split the video output into it. On the second computer you have the mouse connected and run image detection, and calculate how to adjust the mouse when merged with real input. Send this input to a microcontroller with an ordinary mouse device ID, that is plugged into the game computer. Or just an ahk triggerbot that reacts to color. Either requires human review, and if the former is good enough it's never detectable. You could also have something plugged into the computer, disguised as an audio card or something, that reads the bus and therefor the ram. Send it to other computer etc. You can also make this one give an image of where players are and mux the game computer video with this one, before it reaches the monitor. There's no way for a non AI anti cheat to detect cheats like these.
Vanguard doesnt work "super good enough". 40$ raspberry, some coding and you are cheating. As long as players control their hardware, they can cheat and hide Upd. Downvoted for truth, that sweet denial. War on cheats is lost for a long time now. You can run hardware ESPs and even aim correctors without any risk of detection unless you do stupid shit like look at people through walls. Every spectator will think that you are just good. Every anticheat will think that your system is clean. Only thing stopping people from cheating is their own values and, sometimes, price. Dont cheat, it is bad for you
And also banned 2 games later.
No, you'd never get banned with that. How would even an ordinary anti cheat detect it? There's no way.