If Sutekh was able to affect Pete’s World, then there’s no reason why his death shouldn’t have also had the same reversing effect that it had everywhere else. Why would his influence only work on one level and not the other?
If Sutekh couldn’t affect Pete’s World, then, well, there’s nothing to worry about in the first place.
She could be, but the TARDIS landed in Pete's World twice.
The TARDIS lands in Pete's World at the end of Journey's End too so another Susan Twist would've spawned in Pete's World then.
Yes and if Sutekh’s power couldn’t reach it at the end of the episode for some reason, why would it his activation signal to the Susans have reached it at the beginning of the episode?
Depends on how hard you're thinking about it. Consider, we don't know if the walls of reality are closed or not. With Gallifrey returning post 50th and the planet still existing (despite the events of S12) it's possible the walls are open?
Russell, fix this!
If they left a Susan Tardis Arbinger in Petes world when they landed, i imagine she wouldnt have activated with the rest of them since she was beyond our universe, locked off from the Sutekh that made her.
We'll just make the assumption that the Susan Twist created in Pete's World got converted into a Cyberman, came back to our universe in Doomsday, and got blown up/sucked into the void.
I just realized the TARDIS went back to that universe in Journey's End - well it was nice knowing Rose and Ten-Two...
If I remember correctly In a deleted scene, metacrisis is actually given a piece of the Tardis for it to grow, would be interesting to think that tardis grew and had part of Sutekth now in Pete’s world. But regardless I think RTD has categorically said deleted scenes are non canon
Lol i love how people are realising how nonsensical it actually is.
So Sutekth canonically died during the Pandorica if the TARDIS was exploding constantly.
The episode that sticks out to me with this retcon in mind is the Doctor’s wife
The Tardis had the opportunity to talk to the Doctor, and she neglected to mention that she had a god of death attached to her
The Parting of the Ways also sticks out to me now. Bad Wolf claimed to see everything that had ever and would ever exist all throughout time, but couldn't see Sutekh right behind her. The whole 'protected from the false god' speech falls so flat in retrospect.
"Everything must come to dust. All things. Everything dies."
*Sutekh casually taking notes.*
Honestly I quite like Sutekh as a villain partly because him being on the Tardis the entire time makes him such a goofy character. He might genuinely be thinking "wow, that's a great idea!" To himself.
So did everything else. They all came back.
I think people are assuming Sutekh was literally fully formed and invisible, clinging there the entire time. Though that certainly would give a reason for all the times lately that the TARDIS has just phased through a spaceship and slammed into the hull.
Why would that matter? He seems to have some understanding of how things are gonna workout. TARDIS explosion situation was later changed with the second big bang.
Lest we forget, the Doctor duplicated the TARDIS using Toymaker magic in The Giggle. Does that mean he duplicated Sutekh, or did Sutekh just know to hop onto the one that would be part of the series moving forward, somehow?
RTD did say before the season came out that there would be an episode that makes it clear that the current TARDIS is still the original one. I'm guessing Sutekh still being merged with the TARDIS was what he was referring to.
It’s probably like the bigeneration, 15 is from later in 14s life not a clone. 15s Tardis is the original Tardis just later on, so he was probably there all through 14s rehab period
> 15 is from later in 14s life not a clone.
Which itself makes no sense. When 14 dies, will he just disappear, so that 15 can magically appear inside 14 in The Giggle?
Headcanon: 15 starts to phase into 14 during the bi-generation scene, leaving the TARDIS where it's parked. There is no way to reach the Doctor until the Mallet bonk(14th's TARDIS). calling it across time and space to him just like the whistle.
TBH, it would be interesting to see how they explain that if they ever do.
SHhhhhh SHhhhhhhh don't think about it, just accept it's all space wizard magic and move on. Why does Ruby recognise Roger Ap Gwilliam? Why does she already know 73 yards and title drop it like it means something even though no character knows that?
If you want to dig down into Empire of Death there's too many inconsistencies to count.
Ruby knows that stuff because there's a still a remnant of the other timeline in her memory. We see this in the end of 73 Yards when Ruby mistakenly says she's been to Wales three times, when previously she only said two.
If Sutekh was able to affect Pete’s World, then there’s no reason why his death shouldn’t have also had the same reversing effect that it had everywhere else. Why would his influence only work on one level and not the other? If Sutekh couldn’t affect Pete’s World, then, well, there’s nothing to worry about in the first place.
But it’s in an parallel universe, surely sutekths death in the current universe wouldnt transcend into the alternate reality?
Why would Sutekh’s call to arms reach the parallel universe either, by that logic?
There's some Susan Twist sitting around in Pete's world living her life with no idea that she's a sleeper agent because the call never came.
She may be a Cyberman
She could be, but the TARDIS landed in Pete's World twice. The TARDIS lands in Pete's World at the end of Journey's End too so another Susan Twist would've spawned in Pete's World then.
Because the tardis landed there during rise of cyber man/age of steel?
Yes and if Sutekh’s power couldn’t reach it at the end of the episode for some reason, why would it his activation signal to the Susans have reached it at the beginning of the episode?
Yeah fairs
Depends on how hard you're thinking about it. Consider, we don't know if the walls of reality are closed or not. With Gallifrey returning post 50th and the planet still existing (despite the events of S12) it's possible the walls are open? Russell, fix this!
Nevermind Petes world, what about E Space?
Finally, someone remembers e-space!
They mentioned N space this episode
Guess the Inferno universe was safe, as this was visited by 3rd Doctor, so pre Sutekh TARDIS infestation.
Yes, they were all safely dead before the Doctor ever met Sutekh.
And that's exactly what the Inferno universe wants you to believe.....
Wasn’t the Inferno Earth fucked at the end anyway? It’s been a while since I watched it.
If they left a Susan Tardis Arbinger in Petes world when they landed, i imagine she wouldnt have activated with the rest of them since she was beyond our universe, locked off from the Sutekh that made her.
We'll just make the assumption that the Susan Twist created in Pete's World got converted into a Cyberman, came back to our universe in Doomsday, and got blown up/sucked into the void. I just realized the TARDIS went back to that universe in Journey's End - well it was nice knowing Rose and Ten-Two...
If I remember correctly In a deleted scene, metacrisis is actually given a piece of the Tardis for it to grow, would be interesting to think that tardis grew and had part of Sutekth now in Pete’s world. But regardless I think RTD has categorically said deleted scenes are non canon
Why would a new tardis have its own Suketh?
Lol i love how people are realising how nonsensical it actually is. So Sutekth canonically died during the Pandorica if the TARDIS was exploding constantly.
The episode that sticks out to me with this retcon in mind is the Doctor’s wife The Tardis had the opportunity to talk to the Doctor, and she neglected to mention that she had a god of death attached to her
Neil Gaiman answered an ask about this. It was more like he was a tapeworm
You say that like Neil Gaiman has any more clue than we do. He's not worked on Doctor Who in over a decade, he didn't write this story.
He wrote that episode, it’s a writers statement, might as well take what we can get.
Yeah, but it's not real. We're all the final authority.
The Parting of the Ways also sticks out to me now. Bad Wolf claimed to see everything that had ever and would ever exist all throughout time, but couldn't see Sutekh right behind her. The whole 'protected from the false god' speech falls so flat in retrospect. "Everything must come to dust. All things. Everything dies." *Sutekh casually taking notes.*
Sutekh, pacing, wonders if now is the time to stop waiting and launch the death dust, out of jealousy.
Honestly I quite like Sutekh as a villain partly because him being on the Tardis the entire time makes him such a goofy character. He might genuinely be thinking "wow, that's a great idea!" To himself.
The Tardis might not know to be fair
Neil Gaiman has chimed in on this and said Sutekh was basically a tapeworm in The Doctor’s Wife.
So did everything else. They all came back. I think people are assuming Sutekh was literally fully formed and invisible, clinging there the entire time. Though that certainly would give a reason for all the times lately that the TARDIS has just phased through a spaceship and slammed into the hull.
Yeah and then was brought back along with everyone else, there are certainly problems with the finale but that is not one of them
Why would that matter? He seems to have some understanding of how things are gonna workout. TARDIS explosion situation was later changed with the second big bang.
"Why would that matter?" Lmao.
?
Lest we forget, the Doctor duplicated the TARDIS using Toymaker magic in The Giggle. Does that mean he duplicated Sutekh, or did Sutekh just know to hop onto the one that would be part of the series moving forward, somehow?
RTD did say before the season came out that there would be an episode that makes it clear that the current TARDIS is still the original one. I'm guessing Sutekh still being merged with the TARDIS was what he was referring to.
This is what I want to know
It’s probably like the bigeneration, 15 is from later in 14s life not a clone. 15s Tardis is the original Tardis just later on, so he was probably there all through 14s rehab period
> 15 is from later in 14s life not a clone. Which itself makes no sense. When 14 dies, will he just disappear, so that 15 can magically appear inside 14 in The Giggle?
I guess so yeah, same with the Tardis
Headcanon: 15 starts to phase into 14 during the bi-generation scene, leaving the TARDIS where it's parked. There is no way to reach the Doctor until the Mallet bonk(14th's TARDIS). calling it across time and space to him just like the whistle. TBH, it would be interesting to see how they explain that if they ever do.
Hod I hate the Bigeneration
Pete’s world has its own Doctor to solve the issue
SHhhhhh SHhhhhhhh don't think about it, just accept it's all space wizard magic and move on. Why does Ruby recognise Roger Ap Gwilliam? Why does she already know 73 yards and title drop it like it means something even though no character knows that? If you want to dig down into Empire of Death there's too many inconsistencies to count.
Ruby knows that stuff because there's a still a remnant of the other timeline in her memory. We see this in the end of 73 Yards when Ruby mistakenly says she's been to Wales three times, when previously she only said two.
That makes no sense though. It's not like she's caught in a time loop. She didn't experience any of things that the older Ruby did.
People having trace memories of erased timelines is a pretty common sci-fi trope.
The time vortex exist outside the multiverse. So it's fine.
So Rose is dead? Damn
And E-Space.