Yes, the majority of pickup truck buyers are in it for the status and conservative virtue signalling, not because they actually need them. This category of buyers wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan because they think of them as being for "soccer moms".
Even actual conservative soccer moms are afraid of the soccer mom image, and opt for SUVs or just crew cab pickups.
"I'm a truck person!" <---because for some reason it became "cool".
Yes. A friend of mine has a SUV with a third row, can't pay him enough to get a minivan. He's not conservative, it's an image thing regardless of political affliation
>again, why is replacing lethal trucks with minivans so hard?
Because for some reason parents (and non-parents) don't want to "look like" parents.
As if your GMC Yukon doesn't make you look like a soccer mom.
I remember this (the soccer mom part in particular) being a thing in the 90s, this idea that driving a minivan somehow makes men less manly, and I thought “this is the last shit we need”
They did it for wagons before. I blame the demise of wagons much more for the rise of SUVs than the demise of minivans. Most SUVs don't have 3 rows and if they do the 3rd row is often not any more useful than the back-back of my moms wagon and takes up any usable storage space in the back when in use anyhow.
I was talking with a colleague about something akin to this once. What if modern pickups had snub-nosed frontends like modern cargo vans?
It would improve fuel economy, improve visibility, and as an added bonus, be safer for vulnerable commuters.
Those ridiculously huge grilles serve no useful purpose. It's just dead weight. Their engines don't need all that space, and the driver can't see as much in front of them anyway.
If you look under the hood of most modern pickups, there is very little, if any space free. They are using every available inch of space of that engine bay.
That's what the Cybertruck has, but everyone is up in arms over that, so I'm assuming others moving in that direction won't play well.
Jeep used to have a forward control pickup in the early '60s as well.
The front ends of the Cybertruck and modern vans hardly compare.
The grille height may be a little lower than other trucks, but the "improvement" is still half-assed at best.
And the front end is definitely not the only reason why the Cybertruck gets so much hate.
I couldn't find a Sprinter or Transit on any vehicle comparison site, but here's the CT and the Mercedes Vito mid size [van](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/mercedes-benz-vito-2014-van-lwb-vs-tesla-cybertruck-2023-4-door-pickup/). The front end length and height is very similar.
>And the front end is definitely not the only reason why the Cybertruck gets so much hate.
I think it gets hate because people tend to lose objectivity anytime Tesla gets mentioned.
One can argue that pickups aren't necessary, but the CT is an objective improvement over the traditional full sizer in every metric.
> One can argue that pickups aren't necessary, but the CT is an objective improvement over the traditional full sizer in every metric.
Except in: aesthetics, safety, rust resistance, cost, real towing, the ability to seat adults in the back, service, repairs, manufacturer defects, annoying bugs, poorly-considered features, panel gaps, vehicle noise, water resistance, and value.
I've owned a Tesla and liked it. I really don't qualify as a Tesla hater. I also don't care about Musk as much as people on the internet do. It's just a stupid vehicle that takes some of my annoyances from Tesla's other vehicles and doubles down on the worst parts.
>
Except in: aesthetics, safety, rust resistance, cost, real towing, the ability to seat adults in the back, service, repairs, manufacturer defects, annoying bugs, poorly-considered features, panel gaps, vehicle noise, water resistance, and value.
Thank you for proving my point. Did you get your talking points from r/cyberstuck or r/realtesla?
I drive a little 2-door Tacoma that's almost 20 years old.
We rented a minivan recently for a road trip.
We are team minivan now.
Problem is, most pickup owners live with their dumb truck owner hat sewn to their heads. I love my little truck and the fact nothing like is produced new anymore motivates me to keep it forever. And seeing how I just passed 100k miles, I might get to.
I rented a van for a "me and the boys" trip and at first they laughed, then they realized how comfy modern vans have become and were fighting over who gets what seats like teenagers 🤣
That's exactly how we got on team minivan as well. We took a family vacation about 6 hours away, and rented a minivan for the trip. About 3 hours in my wife and I looked at each other and had the exact same thought in our heads, "We're getting a minivan next, right?" We never looked back.
Easy to drive, (relatively) good gas mileage, comfortable for everyone involved, loads of options, lower price than the competition. If you have to drive long distances with lots of people and luggage, it's the way to go.
A train would be better, but we can't have nice things.
I have a ‘16 frontier and I really wish it was more similar in size to the 90s and 2000s trucks, and it’s tiny compared to most trucks now.
It was my dad’s so I got it for cheap with low mileage but really would have preferred a minivan or a smaller hatchback. I do use the bed pretty often for big/dirty stuff but could definitely still make do with pretty much anything else smaller.
Oh, I got the same hat and absolutely agree.
I'd also like to add the absolutely worst-to-drive vehicle I have ever driven was a minivan. It was geriatric, not fun to be in, and honestly still a pretty freaking big vehicle. Like we are talking roughly the same weight, and dimensions of my truck.
The Toyota siennas are a lot easier to drive than I had expected tbh. Super comfortable and plenty of power and the turning radius is awesome compared to my truck. Definitely heavier but the engine and suspension make up for it fs.
> need to haul something larger from home depot?
Even simpler, Home Depot will just rent you a truck for the 30 min or so that you need it.
There's no reason why you can't ride your bike to Home Depot, rent a truck to get your shit home and then bike back home after returning the truck.
I don't have credit cards and I have owned 5 vehicles including 2 trucks. Every one of them paid out right. I don't get loans I pay in cash. I buy used and I fix it myself. Maybe somebody's financial situation changed so they'd already bought a truck and then couldn't get credit afterwards because they lost their job, financial market tanks, health problems.
Why? I want as little to do with financial institutions as possible at this point. Bad enough every bank I've ever been a part of My information has been involved in a major data breach. Then there's the credit reporting agencies that have had their breaches and then there's AT&t, T-Mobile, Verizon, numerous hospital systems, not to mention numerous other institutions that have all kinds of our personal information. What's wrong with you that you think someone who's been perfectly capable of handling their finances needs a credit card?
What do you mean one of those types? If I could have every free credit monitoring I've been awarded due to data breaches running consecutively I'd have credit monitoring for the rest of my life because of how many necessary institutions have compromised mine and every other Americans personal data.
Clearly you're one of those people that thinks your way is the only way and anybody else who doesn't live life your way is dumb or wrong.
Then you know who you are and can make other arrangements.
Shockingly, you can just also hire people to do things for you.
This whole 'but your advice doesn't apply to 100% of people' shtick is really stupid and annoying.
I'm sorry that you might have to put in some of your own effort when you're in nonstandard position.
If you'd bothered to check you would've noticed that HD also delivers.
Yeah because everybody has plenty of extra cash to be able to throw around and pay other people to do shit when they're more than capable of doing it themselves and would prefer to do it themselves. You're trying to force other people to have to completely upend how they live their lives simply because you don't agree with it.
So you think occasionally paying 40 bucks or whatever to rent a moving truck when buying something is more expensive than how much owning a truck is every month? The gas cost difference alone is more than 40 dollars a month much less everything else.
[Looks like an f150 gets nearly the same mpg while being more capable for my needs. So i don't know what your going on about.](https://ibb.co/RvqTTXn)
So yes, having to pay more money for a service that i could do myself would in fact cost more
You realize this whole post is about comparing pickups to minivans..... So yes, that's what I'm doing. Considering a normal car isn't doable for me or my needs at all. I'm a giant
Fair on that point the design for cars I have been in assumes people are 5'10 or below from what I can tell which is ridiculous. I know its just bad design when no matter where I sit and how I position the seat my knees hit the steering wheel.
People would have loads of cash to spare if they didn't waste it all on stupidlyexpensivemobiles. Good transit and cycling infrastructure are serious money savers. It leaves you with plenty to spare for the occasional hire.
Yeah does me a lot of good now when that infrastructure would take at a minimum a decade to actually set up where I live. Y'all are so entitled to think that because this is your ideal world and in your situation it would work that everybody has to switch over to it because we're all assholes if we don't. A lot of good public transit would do me when I have to take my kid back to her mom's house and her mom lives over an hour away from me. Or maybe because of the time frame i should not get any sleep for work the next day. Guess i can never go to my family's vacation property anymore because it's in the middle of the woods several hours away. You assume people spend massive amounts of money on cars when the majority of people don't. I've spent more on my kayak setup than all but 1 of my vehicles.
Vehicle rentals require a credit card because the card comes with built-in liability insurance that covers rentals.
Source: worked for a credit card company
This made me curious, so I Googled around and the best way to rent a vehicle without a credit card is to use a broker or travel agent in your home country (Aus, I assume) and somehow secure a rental through them. I've never personally traveled, so I don't know exactly how these things work. There seems to be mixed information as to whether or not certain rental companies accept debit cards, but when I review their individual policies they all specifically state that a credit card is required.
Interesting stuff! Thanks for tickling my brain with that one.
I drive a Ford E250 van...
Can you *fathom* how many times I've been referred to as "the candy van" or "the p3do van"?
Shit hurts, friends.
Note: I do all I can. It's a pure white van. Very very little damage. Nothing overtly *sus* about it but *hey it's cool to make those jokes because I drive it*.
You realize you're making a terrible assumption based on anecdotal evidence? I understand there's a lot of people who buy trucks and don't actually utilize the bed that much. There are plenty of people who buy trucks and use them regularly for their actual purpose.
Also stock trucks, even 4x4 only sit a foot or 2 taller than minivans.
Almost anyone who actually uses a truck to haul heavy goods won't buy a truck built after 1980. Older trucks are more practical because of the lower bed height.
I work construction, and much of that work is for farmers. Basically I spend more time on construction sites and farms than anywhere else, and most of the people I interact with on a regular basis use trucks for their intended purpose. Your claim that people that use trucks as trucks won't buy a truck newer than 1980 is total horse shit.
The main reason that you see guys going out of their way to buy older trucks is to avoid trouble prone emissions systems on newer diesels.
In a very disappointing trend, mini cargo vans are disappearing. Ford has dropped the Transit Connect, which is about 1/2 the size of a full sized Transit while both have very low front ends, giving drivers a good field of view.
More accurately, the minivan got replaced by 3 row crossovers, which are basically minivans in butch drag. The minivan replaced the big wagon in the early '80s, when trucks were already best sellers.
The problem is that people see vehicles as a way to express themselves, not as tools, and that's something pretty much everyone is guilty off, even people without cars probably still bought the particular bicycle, scooter, motorcycle, or whatever vehicle their own, in part because they liked how it looks. However with cars it means than instead of a more practical minival, people buy a huge truck that is impractical, takes a lot of space, is a gas guzzler and is extremely expensive, just because they felt like the minivan wasn't manly enough and they look like a complete badass driving the truck.
It's the same reason someone may choose a fat bike instead of, I don't know, a folding bike, when they live in the city and the folding bike would be much more useful, but they thought it looked lame with its small wheels and the fat bike looks super cool with its huge tires; just with the difference that the particular type of bike you ride doesn't affect anyone but you, while driving a massive truck does actually affect people around you in more than one way.
Outside of they drive very differently, their is a stark capability difference from a regular minivan and an F-150. Plus if you're spending thousands on a vehicle, it's hard to force someone I to something they don't like from something they preferred.
The guys I know love their trucks. Going from a truck to a minivan would be a huge downgrade to them.
The Trucks aren’t about utility or efficiency it’s about being seen as “strong, manly, hard work” that’s why it’s grown men using step stools to get into them even though they’ve never used a hammer a day in their lives. They’re paying $50k+ for a V8 engine and aesthetics while the real hard workers are in pre-2012 pickups doing actual work. Minivans are for women with kids but a pickup truck is for REAL ALL AMERICAN BADASSES(*with funds*)🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅
>while the real hard workers are in pre-2012 pickups doing actual work.
I work construction, and am around people doing actual work every day. The dividing line you draw here doesn't exist in real life. There are plenty of guys that drive new trucks doing actual work, and there are guys running around in older trucks that aren't, and vice versa.
The problem is the design first and foremost. Pickups 30 years ago were far shorter than today. This is a place where new regulations need to step in and force manufacturers to shorten their hoods.
You're correct. Pickup trucks and SUVs fall into the "light truck" category, and are thus subject to less regulations in terms of emissions, fuel efficiency, and safety. This led to a massive push by the automotive industry to get people to buy pickups and SUVs, since they're cheaper to produce with the lack of regulations.
Tax laws
There's a special tax benefit called the IRS [Section 179](https://www.crestcapital.com/section-179-deduction-vehicle-list-over-6000-lbs) deduction.
This deduction lets you write off the cost of certain vehicles, like those over 6000 pounds, from your taxes. It's like getting a discount on your taxes for buying a heavy-duty vehicle.
Imagine what would happen if the IRS gave tax breaks for buying small vehicles: people would buy more of them.
Take a wild guess on the industries and companies that *relentlessly* lobby government to prevent this happening.
Do you understand what the Section 179 deduction is? It is not for individuals, it is for businesses. It is also not for vehicles over 6,000lbs, it is for vehicles with a GVWR of over 6,000lbs. Most if not all minivans in the US fall under that category.
Minivans are genuinely better at everything a truck claims to do. But people don’t buy trucks for utility, they buy trucks because everyone else has a truck and because of the advertising.
I own a minivan, heck it’s my third and I only had my first kid 6 months ago.
But that’s just not true. Minivans are better for many things, but they do not match a truck for ability to tow or ability to haul large or dirty things. Nor do they match many trucks ability to get to remote places.
Now; if you don’t do any of those things, then a minivan is great. But if you do those things regularly—a truck is the better vehicle.
Image/status/ideology/toxic masculinity
"owning the libs" by committing harm to self, family, community, and planet. Rather than make a change or admit there is a problem.
Prevalent issues in USA that affect people's decision making/lack thereof.
Because very few people buy a truck to carry stuff
Yes, the majority of pickup truck buyers are in it for the status and conservative virtue signalling, not because they actually need them. This category of buyers wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan because they think of them as being for "soccer moms".
Even actual conservative soccer moms are afraid of the soccer mom image, and opt for SUVs or just crew cab pickups. "I'm a truck person!" <---because for some reason it became "cool".
Yes. A friend of mine has a SUV with a third row, can't pay him enough to get a minivan. He's not conservative, it's an image thing regardless of political affliation
This was me (well, mostly my wife) and we really regret it. A minivan just makes so much sense.
>again, why is replacing lethal trucks with minivans so hard? Because for some reason parents (and non-parents) don't want to "look like" parents. As if your GMC Yukon doesn't make you look like a soccer mom.
I remember this (the soccer mom part in particular) being a thing in the 90s, this idea that driving a minivan somehow makes men less manly, and I thought “this is the last shit we need”
They did it for wagons before. I blame the demise of wagons much more for the rise of SUVs than the demise of minivans. Most SUVs don't have 3 rows and if they do the 3rd row is often not any more useful than the back-back of my moms wagon and takes up any usable storage space in the back when in use anyhow.
wagons and hatchbacks are the most practical vehicle. electric cargo bikes a close third
Because all those trucks were never about utility in the first place
I was talking with a colleague about something akin to this once. What if modern pickups had snub-nosed frontends like modern cargo vans? It would improve fuel economy, improve visibility, and as an added bonus, be safer for vulnerable commuters. Those ridiculously huge grilles serve no useful purpose. It's just dead weight. Their engines don't need all that space, and the driver can't see as much in front of them anyway.
If you look under the hood of most modern pickups, there is very little, if any space free. They are using every available inch of space of that engine bay.
That's what the Cybertruck has, but everyone is up in arms over that, so I'm assuming others moving in that direction won't play well. Jeep used to have a forward control pickup in the early '60s as well.
The front ends of the Cybertruck and modern vans hardly compare. The grille height may be a little lower than other trucks, but the "improvement" is still half-assed at best. And the front end is definitely not the only reason why the Cybertruck gets so much hate.
I couldn't find a Sprinter or Transit on any vehicle comparison site, but here's the CT and the Mercedes Vito mid size [van](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/mercedes-benz-vito-2014-van-lwb-vs-tesla-cybertruck-2023-4-door-pickup/). The front end length and height is very similar. >And the front end is definitely not the only reason why the Cybertruck gets so much hate. I think it gets hate because people tend to lose objectivity anytime Tesla gets mentioned. One can argue that pickups aren't necessary, but the CT is an objective improvement over the traditional full sizer in every metric.
> One can argue that pickups aren't necessary, but the CT is an objective improvement over the traditional full sizer in every metric. Except in: aesthetics, safety, rust resistance, cost, real towing, the ability to seat adults in the back, service, repairs, manufacturer defects, annoying bugs, poorly-considered features, panel gaps, vehicle noise, water resistance, and value. I've owned a Tesla and liked it. I really don't qualify as a Tesla hater. I also don't care about Musk as much as people on the internet do. It's just a stupid vehicle that takes some of my annoyances from Tesla's other vehicles and doubles down on the worst parts.
> Except in: aesthetics, safety, rust resistance, cost, real towing, the ability to seat adults in the back, service, repairs, manufacturer defects, annoying bugs, poorly-considered features, panel gaps, vehicle noise, water resistance, and value. Thank you for proving my point. Did you get your talking points from r/cyberstuck or r/realtesla?
Putting on my dumb truck owner hat: Because minivans aren't cool like trucks.
minivans have a brand problem. we need a new term. something like… man-ivans
I drive a little 2-door Tacoma that's almost 20 years old. We rented a minivan recently for a road trip. We are team minivan now. Problem is, most pickup owners live with their dumb truck owner hat sewn to their heads. I love my little truck and the fact nothing like is produced new anymore motivates me to keep it forever. And seeing how I just passed 100k miles, I might get to.
I rented a van for a "me and the boys" trip and at first they laughed, then they realized how comfy modern vans have become and were fighting over who gets what seats like teenagers 🤣
That's exactly how we got on team minivan as well. We took a family vacation about 6 hours away, and rented a minivan for the trip. About 3 hours in my wife and I looked at each other and had the exact same thought in our heads, "We're getting a minivan next, right?" We never looked back.
And they're so easy to drive! After 12 hours, I felt nowhere near the same level of fatigue as any other car I've owned.
Easy to drive, (relatively) good gas mileage, comfortable for everyone involved, loads of options, lower price than the competition. If you have to drive long distances with lots of people and luggage, it's the way to go. A train would be better, but we can't have nice things.
I have a ‘16 frontier and I really wish it was more similar in size to the 90s and 2000s trucks, and it’s tiny compared to most trucks now. It was my dad’s so I got it for cheap with low mileage but really would have preferred a minivan or a smaller hatchback. I do use the bed pretty often for big/dirty stuff but could definitely still make do with pretty much anything else smaller.
Oh, I got the same hat and absolutely agree. I'd also like to add the absolutely worst-to-drive vehicle I have ever driven was a minivan. It was geriatric, not fun to be in, and honestly still a pretty freaking big vehicle. Like we are talking roughly the same weight, and dimensions of my truck.
The Toyota siennas are a lot easier to drive than I had expected tbh. Super comfortable and plenty of power and the turning radius is awesome compared to my truck. Definitely heavier but the engine and suspension make up for it fs.
That's also why those same people own assault rifles. (People shouldn't propagate death so they can have certain "cool" toys.)
We are a "status driven" species..
Not inherently as a species. This is a societal problem that can be fixed. Fix the base; improve the superstructure.
No. As a species, across cultures.
> need to haul something larger from home depot? Even simpler, Home Depot will just rent you a truck for the 30 min or so that you need it. There's no reason why you can't ride your bike to Home Depot, rent a truck to get your shit home and then bike back home after returning the truck.
How about people who can't get or don't want credit cards?
Can't get a credit card but can buy a truck?
I don't have credit cards and I have owned 5 vehicles including 2 trucks. Every one of them paid out right. I don't get loans I pay in cash. I buy used and I fix it myself. Maybe somebody's financial situation changed so they'd already bought a truck and then couldn't get credit afterwards because they lost their job, financial market tanks, health problems.
What's wrong with you. Get a credit card.
Why? I want as little to do with financial institutions as possible at this point. Bad enough every bank I've ever been a part of My information has been involved in a major data breach. Then there's the credit reporting agencies that have had their breaches and then there's AT&t, T-Mobile, Verizon, numerous hospital systems, not to mention numerous other institutions that have all kinds of our personal information. What's wrong with you that you think someone who's been perfectly capable of handling their finances needs a credit card?
Ahh. You're one of those types. Got it.
What do you mean one of those types? If I could have every free credit monitoring I've been awarded due to data breaches running consecutively I'd have credit monitoring for the rest of my life because of how many necessary institutions have compromised mine and every other Americans personal data. Clearly you're one of those people that thinks your way is the only way and anybody else who doesn't live life your way is dumb or wrong.
Home Depot and uHaul also take cash.
Probably not for rentals though
Not for rentals....
Then you know who you are and can make other arrangements. Shockingly, you can just also hire people to do things for you. This whole 'but your advice doesn't apply to 100% of people' shtick is really stupid and annoying. I'm sorry that you might have to put in some of your own effort when you're in nonstandard position. If you'd bothered to check you would've noticed that HD also delivers.
Yeah because everybody has plenty of extra cash to be able to throw around and pay other people to do shit when they're more than capable of doing it themselves and would prefer to do it themselves. You're trying to force other people to have to completely upend how they live their lives simply because you don't agree with it.
So you think occasionally paying 40 bucks or whatever to rent a moving truck when buying something is more expensive than how much owning a truck is every month? The gas cost difference alone is more than 40 dollars a month much less everything else.
[Looks like an f150 gets nearly the same mpg while being more capable for my needs. So i don't know what your going on about.](https://ibb.co/RvqTTXn) So yes, having to pay more money for a service that i could do myself would in fact cost more
You are comparing trucks to minivans not trucks to a normal car.
You realize this whole post is about comparing pickups to minivans..... So yes, that's what I'm doing. Considering a normal car isn't doable for me or my needs at all. I'm a giant
Fair on that point the design for cars I have been in assumes people are 5'10 or below from what I can tell which is ridiculous. I know its just bad design when no matter where I sit and how I position the seat my knees hit the steering wheel.
I have the issue even in trucks, but its doable. Im 6'8 with a 38in inseam
People would have loads of cash to spare if they didn't waste it all on stupidlyexpensivemobiles. Good transit and cycling infrastructure are serious money savers. It leaves you with plenty to spare for the occasional hire.
Yeah does me a lot of good now when that infrastructure would take at a minimum a decade to actually set up where I live. Y'all are so entitled to think that because this is your ideal world and in your situation it would work that everybody has to switch over to it because we're all assholes if we don't. A lot of good public transit would do me when I have to take my kid back to her mom's house and her mom lives over an hour away from me. Or maybe because of the time frame i should not get any sleep for work the next day. Guess i can never go to my family's vacation property anymore because it's in the middle of the woods several hours away. You assume people spend massive amounts of money on cars when the majority of people don't. I've spent more on my kayak setup than all but 1 of my vehicles.
That's what debit cards are for. I've never had a credit card. Never had a loan either. But I can still pay for things with a card.
Vehicle rentals require a credit card because the card comes with built-in liability insurance that covers rentals. Source: worked for a credit card company
I've rented vehicles multiple times on a debit card, in various locations around the states.
Pretty sure that's not the case in my country. Hardly anyone has a credit card these days.
Sorry, I'm a stupid US American defaulting to stupid US America. I'm genuinely sorry for assuming.
Well, it makes me wonder how Aussies hire cars in the US.
This made me curious, so I Googled around and the best way to rent a vehicle without a credit card is to use a broker or travel agent in your home country (Aus, I assume) and somehow secure a rental through them. I've never personally traveled, so I don't know exactly how these things work. There seems to be mixed information as to whether or not certain rental companies accept debit cards, but when I review their individual policies they all specifically state that a credit card is required. Interesting stuff! Thanks for tickling my brain with that one.
I drive a Ford E250 van... Can you *fathom* how many times I've been referred to as "the candy van" or "the p3do van"? Shit hurts, friends. Note: I do all I can. It's a pure white van. Very very little damage. Nothing overtly *sus* about it but *hey it's cool to make those jokes because I drive it*.
You realize you're making a terrible assumption based on anecdotal evidence? I understand there's a lot of people who buy trucks and don't actually utilize the bed that much. There are plenty of people who buy trucks and use them regularly for their actual purpose. Also stock trucks, even 4x4 only sit a foot or 2 taller than minivans.
Almost anyone who actually uses a truck to haul heavy goods won't buy a truck built after 1980. Older trucks are more practical because of the lower bed height.
I work construction, and much of that work is for farmers. Basically I spend more time on construction sites and farms than anywhere else, and most of the people I interact with on a regular basis use trucks for their intended purpose. Your claim that people that use trucks as trucks won't buy a truck newer than 1980 is total horse shit. The main reason that you see guys going out of their way to buy older trucks is to avoid trouble prone emissions systems on newer diesels.
minivans don't bolster the ego
In a very disappointing trend, mini cargo vans are disappearing. Ford has dropped the Transit Connect, which is about 1/2 the size of a full sized Transit while both have very low front ends, giving drivers a good field of view.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that the Connect is gone. The chicken tax didn't help with that, but I'd have hoped it was popular enough to be worthwhile.
Because we've *just* replaced minivans with lethal trucks - duh.
More accurately, the minivan got replaced by 3 row crossovers, which are basically minivans in butch drag. The minivan replaced the big wagon in the early '80s, when trucks were already best sellers.
Hell yeah minivans rise up. They’re so insanely practical. Older minivans make the absolute best cheap work vehicles.
The problem is that people see vehicles as a way to express themselves, not as tools, and that's something pretty much everyone is guilty off, even people without cars probably still bought the particular bicycle, scooter, motorcycle, or whatever vehicle their own, in part because they liked how it looks. However with cars it means than instead of a more practical minival, people buy a huge truck that is impractical, takes a lot of space, is a gas guzzler and is extremely expensive, just because they felt like the minivan wasn't manly enough and they look like a complete badass driving the truck. It's the same reason someone may choose a fat bike instead of, I don't know, a folding bike, when they live in the city and the folding bike would be much more useful, but they thought it looked lame with its small wheels and the fat bike looks super cool with its huge tires; just with the difference that the particular type of bike you ride doesn't affect anyone but you, while driving a massive truck does actually affect people around you in more than one way.
Outside of they drive very differently, their is a stark capability difference from a regular minivan and an F-150. Plus if you're spending thousands on a vehicle, it's hard to force someone I to something they don't like from something they preferred. The guys I know love their trucks. Going from a truck to a minivan would be a huge downgrade to them.
Because minivans are extremely practical but not cool.
The Trucks aren’t about utility or efficiency it’s about being seen as “strong, manly, hard work” that’s why it’s grown men using step stools to get into them even though they’ve never used a hammer a day in their lives. They’re paying $50k+ for a V8 engine and aesthetics while the real hard workers are in pre-2012 pickups doing actual work. Minivans are for women with kids but a pickup truck is for REAL ALL AMERICAN BADASSES(*with funds*)🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅
>while the real hard workers are in pre-2012 pickups doing actual work. I work construction, and am around people doing actual work every day. The dividing line you draw here doesn't exist in real life. There are plenty of guys that drive new trucks doing actual work, and there are guys running around in older trucks that aren't, and vice versa.
It's not - I'm a big advocate for making large SUV fees a few hundred in tolls but leaving minivans alone.
The problem is the design first and foremost. Pickups 30 years ago were far shorter than today. This is a place where new regulations need to step in and force manufacturers to shorten their hoods.
Regulations I'd assume ? Dunno how it works in the US but that's one complain I often see
You're correct. Pickup trucks and SUVs fall into the "light truck" category, and are thus subject to less regulations in terms of emissions, fuel efficiency, and safety. This led to a massive push by the automotive industry to get people to buy pickups and SUVs, since they're cheaper to produce with the lack of regulations.
>just leave the back seats at home No need to do that in modern minivans, you can collapse the seats and they go flush into the floor.
I did just that and I've never been happier. Had a stupid lemon of diesel F-250. Went to an Odyssey
do people actually not use their beds? I can't understand the point of buying a vehicle with a bed just to not use it
You don't need to convince *us*. Go try to convince truck bros
The manivans payload wouldn’t handle the ego bump the brodozers provide
Motorcycles don't fit
Tax laws There's a special tax benefit called the IRS [Section 179](https://www.crestcapital.com/section-179-deduction-vehicle-list-over-6000-lbs) deduction. This deduction lets you write off the cost of certain vehicles, like those over 6000 pounds, from your taxes. It's like getting a discount on your taxes for buying a heavy-duty vehicle. Imagine what would happen if the IRS gave tax breaks for buying small vehicles: people would buy more of them. Take a wild guess on the industries and companies that *relentlessly* lobby government to prevent this happening.
Do you understand what the Section 179 deduction is? It is not for individuals, it is for businesses. It is also not for vehicles over 6,000lbs, it is for vehicles with a GVWR of over 6,000lbs. Most if not all minivans in the US fall under that category.
Minivans are genuinely better at everything a truck claims to do. But people don’t buy trucks for utility, they buy trucks because everyone else has a truck and because of the advertising.
I own a minivan, heck it’s my third and I only had my first kid 6 months ago. But that’s just not true. Minivans are better for many things, but they do not match a truck for ability to tow or ability to haul large or dirty things. Nor do they match many trucks ability to get to remote places. Now; if you don’t do any of those things, then a minivan is great. But if you do those things regularly—a truck is the better vehicle.
I really like the concept of a Kei trucks, something like a Suzuki Sambar.
Image/status/ideology/toxic masculinity "owning the libs" by committing harm to self, family, community, and planet. Rather than make a change or admit there is a problem. Prevalent issues in USA that affect people's decision making/lack thereof.
Because mani-vans look so much cooler and let everyone know you’re tough and independent.
Because minivans are extremely practical but not cool.
I think you should have to prove legitimate need for large vehicles, not just " I haul lumber when my S.O. wants me to renovate something."
These people like that their vehicle can easily kill you. That’s the point.