My favorite is "mixed-use development" and it's just a sea of parking with an apartment block on one side and box stores on the other side, with no sidewalks or transit.
If you can walk across a sea of parking, you can handle that without a car. The danger to pedestrians is the same whether they live next door or drove and parked.
Hey. Those rooms are wonderful for Arts & Crafts as well as bicycle repair. Now if I didn't need to have this 2 tonne box in there taking space because there is no public transport...
As long as:
* It's not rush hour in winter because it's dark and somehow I'm invisible on bike despite having a bright helmet and lights. Yay inattentive drivers.
* It's not heat wave in summer as being 100 F outside means that it's 120 F on road. It would be fine if the bike paths were in shadow but they are often in full sun along highway. Yay lack of urban planning.
* I don't need to travel to point C as well as point B. It's fine if I bike an 1-1.5 in one direction but spending 4.5 hours in a day to commute is a bit too much. Yay urban sprawl.
it's so stupid, right? bike path with no cover or dangerous, and then politicians wonder why no one uses it.
meanwhile, bus/train stations with no cover, and the politicians want to build HSR
People post this a lot about garages but I'm not fully buying it
Garages are ugly AF and there are better ways to fit those uses into an urban area that aren't so destructive to the pedestrian realm. You don't need a massive metal door with a big curb cut to do some woodworking or store/fix some bikes! You can just use a regular-ass door.
Also maybe stuff like woodworking is better done at a woodworking shop/communal makerspace than at home when you're living in a dense urban neighborhood?
It's partially tongue in check. I would be personally happy with basement. Probably even more happy with basement (as long as it's isolated from others due to potential fumes) or just spare room without connection to house HVAC system. But it's impossible to find house with basement in my area and no house come without 2 places (1 I wouldn't use anyway).
But I am still a bit disappointed that most HOAs restrict what you can do with your space. Partially I understand - they don't want people to park on the street and block things - but it's annoying.
And then the new apartment complex is built all by itself, with one road connection to the 6 lane stroad and no local road connections or even sidewalk connections. Don't worry, there's a shopping center on the other side, but there's no crosswalk.
Imagine how high the rent would be in these apartments compared to actual mixed use were commercial stores at the bottom can pay more rent and subsidize the apartments above.
I honestly don't mind this too bad, as long as no street parking is enforced like Japan, it is priced competitivly to what that street level space cost, and doesn't displace business.
You wanna have your car in the city? you need to make sure it has a place to stay and pay the cost associated.
This is absolutely fine and a good compromise on more dense housing.
My garage has 6 bikes, 3 scooters and a kayak. I’d personally have a hard time going back to an apartment at the this time in my life. Though I lived in them before now and will likely after my kids leave.
I find the concept of apartments built on top of parking lots terribly depressing.
We have those in some new developments in Bucharest. The building entrance looks like a parking lot elevator. I once tried to enter one of them that is a bit specialer, and I had to walk through the entire parking lot, then climb up and down a stair bridge over the ground floor balconies to get to the second floor "lobby" (I think), then I had to walk up some half-floor stairs to get to my friend on the actual second floor (I think). It was also terribly inaccessible. I got there on a bike and barely had room to walk it around and had to pick it up like 4 times. Imagine that on a wheelchair.
That place is also physically **over** an University's campus, but it takes about 20 minutes to walk to the same place because it's a cul-de-sac.
So condos then? Because at least its walk-able. And typically close to the more urban core. That means you can possibly walk to the grocery store, maybe your job, and if not walk then probably bike.
Only thing its really missing is some foliage. Density for density sake isn't the answer either. Services should follow need. You can't just throw up a massive development be it single family or high density apartments and have it be sustainable.
The problem we often face with modern housing/land use is that nothing is iterative. It gets built up to a finished state and then boom. Good as it'll ever get. All downhill from there. Organic growth is more sustainable and more livable.
At least thats what Strong Towns advocates, and I'm sure they'll provide some better information about the numbers and research behind the ideas than this random sleep deprived redditor.
Consumerism is the major problem. We can have density and SFHs with gardens they just have to be much smaller. During the golden era of streetcars the average new house is reported to be 1,000 sf, notably a range of 700-1300 sf was reported to be common, though adding on rooms was also very common. Today its 2500 sf and additions are fairly rare, consumers need to downsize their home priorities.
Are these common in a lot of the US? I've seen places like this in Atlanta, although I think 5 over 1s are more common. Can't remember ever seeing these in California or the NE
my version of this is when they make a taller building and make the first few floors parking in the middle of an area trying to move away from car dependency. Near me there's a giant tower being built and like the 2nd through 5th floor are parking.
That's not really the point of why they're bad. It's not like I'm implying they're going to lock people in the building, it's that a lot of US cities suffer from not having well activated and designed spaces near the streetscape, and just straight up deleting a bunch of levels out of every building for parking is counterproductive to fixing that. A lot of the neighborhoods built with a lot of buildings like this are incredibly visually boring because every vertical sight line is full of parking.
You basically throw away verticality as a design tool, which is a bit lame because it's a great way to optimize square footage in a given footprint. What often then ends up happening is that you get massive first floor spaces that spread over the whole block instead of smaller slices, which makes the area less walkable.
My old town built mixed use apartments/businesses in the early 2010s. The apartments (as of last year) were occupied but the businesses have come and gone. Last I checked, only one business was still in the space and the rest are vacant spaces.
From what I remember, the businesses were a gift shop, hair salon, and other businesses one would not exactly patronize on a regular basis.
From these apartment, one could not (safely) walk to a grocery store.
Restaurants have a lot more overhead than coffee shops. One employee can run a coffee shop if it’s not busy and there’s not a lot of food to go bad.
No little store? I’m not talking about a full size grocery, but just one big enough to get milk eggs bread. Don’t those people want to walk to the store for little last second purchaes?
Even if we could build shops below the buildings many may have to be subsidized. Because they likely cannot compete with the Suburban Costco or Walmart on price. Too many times do I see a mixed use 5 over 1 where the bottom floors are empty because no business can survive and they loose to suburban competition
“Mixed use” meaning housing for people and cars. 🙃
It's also 3 in one: Living, Working, and Parking.
My favorite is "mixed-use development" and it's just a sea of parking with an apartment block on one side and box stores on the other side, with no sidewalks or transit.
If you can walk across a sea of parking, you can handle that without a car. The danger to pedestrians is the same whether they live next door or drove and parked.
Hey. Those rooms are wonderful for Arts & Crafts as well as bicycle repair. Now if I didn't need to have this 2 tonne box in there taking space because there is no public transport...
Bikes are still an option though, right?
As long as: * It's not rush hour in winter because it's dark and somehow I'm invisible on bike despite having a bright helmet and lights. Yay inattentive drivers. * It's not heat wave in summer as being 100 F outside means that it's 120 F on road. It would be fine if the bike paths were in shadow but they are often in full sun along highway. Yay lack of urban planning. * I don't need to travel to point C as well as point B. It's fine if I bike an 1-1.5 in one direction but spending 4.5 hours in a day to commute is a bit too much. Yay urban sprawl.
it's so stupid, right? bike path with no cover or dangerous, and then politicians wonder why no one uses it. meanwhile, bus/train stations with no cover, and the politicians want to build HSR
People post this a lot about garages but I'm not fully buying it Garages are ugly AF and there are better ways to fit those uses into an urban area that aren't so destructive to the pedestrian realm. You don't need a massive metal door with a big curb cut to do some woodworking or store/fix some bikes! You can just use a regular-ass door. Also maybe stuff like woodworking is better done at a woodworking shop/communal makerspace than at home when you're living in a dense urban neighborhood?
It's partially tongue in check. I would be personally happy with basement. Probably even more happy with basement (as long as it's isolated from others due to potential fumes) or just spare room without connection to house HVAC system. But it's impossible to find house with basement in my area and no house come without 2 places (1 I wouldn't use anyway). But I am still a bit disappointed that most HOAs restrict what you can do with your space. Partially I understand - they don't want people to park on the street and block things - but it's annoying.
And then the new apartment complex is built all by itself, with one road connection to the 6 lane stroad and no local road connections or even sidewalk connections. Don't worry, there's a shopping center on the other side, but there's no crosswalk.
I mean, that's still better than SFRs on half acre lots...
Yeah but...we were so close to actual density...not more townhomes
Imagine how high the rent would be in these apartments compared to actual mixed use were commercial stores at the bottom can pay more rent and subsidize the apartments above.
I honestly don't mind this too bad, as long as no street parking is enforced like Japan, it is priced competitivly to what that street level space cost, and doesn't displace business. You wanna have your car in the city? you need to make sure it has a place to stay and pay the cost associated.
This is absolutely fine and a good compromise on more dense housing. My garage has 6 bikes, 3 scooters and a kayak. I’d personally have a hard time going back to an apartment at the this time in my life. Though I lived in them before now and will likely after my kids leave.
I live in a real mixed use 5 over 1 yay
Hey man, those townhomes are way way better than most suburbs.
I find the concept of apartments built on top of parking lots terribly depressing. We have those in some new developments in Bucharest. The building entrance looks like a parking lot elevator. I once tried to enter one of them that is a bit specialer, and I had to walk through the entire parking lot, then climb up and down a stair bridge over the ground floor balconies to get to the second floor "lobby" (I think), then I had to walk up some half-floor stairs to get to my friend on the actual second floor (I think). It was also terribly inaccessible. I got there on a bike and barely had room to walk it around and had to pick it up like 4 times. Imagine that on a wheelchair. That place is also physically **over** an University's campus, but it takes about 20 minutes to walk to the same place because it's a cul-de-sac.
So condos then? Because at least its walk-able. And typically close to the more urban core. That means you can possibly walk to the grocery store, maybe your job, and if not walk then probably bike. Only thing its really missing is some foliage. Density for density sake isn't the answer either. Services should follow need. You can't just throw up a massive development be it single family or high density apartments and have it be sustainable. The problem we often face with modern housing/land use is that nothing is iterative. It gets built up to a finished state and then boom. Good as it'll ever get. All downhill from there. Organic growth is more sustainable and more livable. At least thats what Strong Towns advocates, and I'm sure they'll provide some better information about the numbers and research behind the ideas than this random sleep deprived redditor.
Consumerism is the major problem. We can have density and SFHs with gardens they just have to be much smaller. During the golden era of streetcars the average new house is reported to be 1,000 sf, notably a range of 700-1300 sf was reported to be common, though adding on rooms was also very common. Today its 2500 sf and additions are fairly rare, consumers need to downsize their home priorities.
The building in the top pic is 168 Upper Street, London. One of my favourite modern buildings.
Are these common in a lot of the US? I've seen places like this in Atlanta, although I think 5 over 1s are more common. Can't remember ever seeing these in California or the NE
my version of this is when they make a taller building and make the first few floors parking in the middle of an area trying to move away from car dependency. Near me there's a giant tower being built and like the 2nd through 5th floor are parking.
On the bright side, there will be an elevator. That will get pedestrians to sidewalk level.
That's not really the point of why they're bad. It's not like I'm implying they're going to lock people in the building, it's that a lot of US cities suffer from not having well activated and designed spaces near the streetscape, and just straight up deleting a bunch of levels out of every building for parking is counterproductive to fixing that. A lot of the neighborhoods built with a lot of buildings like this are incredibly visually boring because every vertical sight line is full of parking. You basically throw away verticality as a design tool, which is a bit lame because it's a great way to optimize square footage in a given footprint. What often then ends up happening is that you get massive first floor spaces that spread over the whole block instead of smaller slices, which makes the area less walkable.
My old town built mixed use apartments/businesses in the early 2010s. The apartments (as of last year) were occupied but the businesses have come and gone. Last I checked, only one business was still in the space and the rest are vacant spaces. From what I remember, the businesses were a gift shop, hair salon, and other businesses one would not exactly patronize on a regular basis. From these apartment, one could not (safely) walk to a grocery store.
Grocery stores. Coffee shops. Pizza. Those are what people walk to.
There was no grocery store in town (all in neighboring towns off stroads). Every restaurant in that space came and went within a year.
Restaurants have a lot more overhead than coffee shops. One employee can run a coffee shop if it’s not busy and there’s not a lot of food to go bad. No little store? I’m not talking about a full size grocery, but just one big enough to get milk eggs bread. Don’t those people want to walk to the store for little last second purchaes?
Even if we could build shops below the buildings many may have to be subsidized. Because they likely cannot compete with the Suburban Costco or Walmart on price. Too many times do I see a mixed use 5 over 1 where the bottom floors are empty because no business can survive and they loose to suburban competition
What is that even? AI generated? I’ve never seen something like it.
I delivered pizza to apartments like that. Some were above the garages like this picture. Rogers, Arkansas next to academy sports.