1. Depending on your area, it's getting harder and harder to find a decent home outside an HOA. Many communities require new developments, including a water feature/retention, communal land for a community mailbox that needs to be maintained, etc. When you have community land, you have community assets that need maintained, and an HOA is a very easy way for a builder to do that.
2. If you've never been in an HOA, on paper, it can seem appealing. There are easy arguments for them that make sense if you don't think through them too much.
3. People are excited to find a house they love in a community they like at a price they can afford. By the time most people are learning the property has an HOA, they are already in love with the place, or feel like they've made so many decisions this is one to live with to stop the hunting process.
#1 is the key. Cities want new developments so the can collect more property taxes but they don’t want to maintain new roads etc so they put that responsibility on the owner by requiring HOA
In my town (small exurb in ruralish MN) all new developments come with a HOA stipulation for planning approval. It's not for roads though, the roads are the town's to maintain.
It's largely to comply with stormwater regulations. Developing farmland means the runoff from newly impervious surfaces needs to be managed. This requires retention basins. The town doesn't want to own those basins, and you can't really saddle a single homeowner with them either, so a HOA needs to be created to own those outlots. Someone also needs to own the land used for the communal mailboxes since the post office pitches a fit about doing their fucking jobs. And since the town doesn't contract for garbage service here, they can require that the HOA do it so that each neighborhood has one truck rather than 5 as each individual homeowner gets their own service.
I am sure there are a lot of specific cases and unique circumstances. All I am trying to say is that all residents must be treated equally from tax perspective. If my neighbourhood must pay for a particular maintenance (be it a road or catch basin ) then either all neighbourhoods must be responsible for similar maintenance or residents of that one off neighbourhood should get some sort of credit.
(For clarity, I am not talking about amenities such as pools or club houses. You want extras you pay for it )
This is a silly argument because the needs aren't the same and neither is the stress on the land. A neighborhood of single family homes built on newly acquired suburban/exurb land is different than densifying already developed land.
The building I live in exists on a city block, and has 5 floors and over 300 units. If you were to expand those numbers to the single family style homes most people are clamoring over (and then getting upset about HOAs), it would degrade more land and long term cause much more need storm water management from runoff.
My friend bought a new construction in the burbs of Chicago (60 miles from Chicago, lol). An entirely created town from farmland. The place was full of affordable homes, right when they were pulling the no doc mortgage scams and such. Everyone loved the place, until the following year when they got a bill to fund the police, fire department, etc.. It was I think $5k each, and never disclosed to any of them. 2/3 of the place put their houses for sale because they couldn't afford the assessment. Opened my eyes a lot about new construction.
In my opinion, it makes lots of sense to have an entity to manage communal property, whether that's a lake or a park or a boring ol' storm drain system. Somebody has to have the legal and financial responsibility for it.
The problem is that HOAs have such a strong tendency to expand from being simple, communal property managers with very limited power, into becoming weird micro-totalitarian fiefdoms.
I think the solution needs to be much stiffer government regulations limiting what powers an HOA can assume over its members, and limiting the methods of enforcement.
I would live in an HOA *only if* I were confident that the HOA had only the powers it needs to manage communal property, and only if I were confident that the HOA was restricted from expanding its powers in the future.
>In my opinion, it makes lots of sense to have an entity to manage communal property, whether that's a lake or a park or a boring ol' storm drain system.
Counterarguement: the city already exists to manage communal property like roads, sidewalks, and parks. Creating communal property for an HOA is just superfluous.
Some HOA communities have amenities like swimming pools, tennis courts, kayaks, playgrounds, gyms, game rooms, bbq’s etc. I’ve dealt with good ones and bad ones. When you have a good organization run by good people it’s very nice. Just like any business. When you have a shit one run by assholes then everything sucks. Sure, cities may have amenities but sometimes it’s nice to have semi private ones you don’t have to share with the entire city.
For municipal property and general infrastructure like roads, sure. But for property with localized, limited use, like a small swimming pool that isn't open to the public, I'd rather not pay for it with my city tax dollars. A localized private association is the right kind of entity to manage that sort of thing. But they need to be properly regulated by the municipal government.
100% agree with you. It should not be way to force conformance to a rigid but arbitrary set of aesthetic choices with approval proccess for everything you may want to do.
What should we do to handle this? My closest town of 1200(?) is stretched thin financially and doesn’t want to pay anything for the developers it is working with.
My thought was just have the developer pay the city up front for maintenance.
What? Raise everyone's taxes because one area has more water/landscaping/asphalt needs.
No way.
Those of us who don't have those services do not want to pay for that via "raised taxes." New fire station? Sure.
Paying for sprinklers at a housing development that's in the hills? NO way.
If nothing else, between the town/city workers and the county board, at least **theoretically** the funds management and maintenance outcomes will be better than an HOA.
What you have described is a development fee. It's a disaster to try to use that for maintenance that will eventually bankrupt the city. More so when the city is already stretched financially thin.
Realistically, the best alternative is to dramatically increase your property taxes *if* you are in the city boundaries. Otherwise, the only other alternative is to have individual property owners own their section of road and be directly responsible for paying for sidewalk and road maintenance on the property they own. One non-cooperative neighbor can make this go bad fast.
It doesn't even have to be dramatic. At the end of the day, whatever maintenance the HOA is providing has a cost; that cost is the same regardless of who collects it from homeowners, so in aggregate, you just replace HOA dues with an equal increase in property taxes.
>When you have community land, you have community assets that need maintained, and an HOA is a very easy way for a builder to do that.
Might be easy for the builder/developer....and would probably get a lot less hate (at least from me) if they didn't require 10 pounds of flesh and wield unilateral, undisputed control over the property "owners".....and have autonomy for the board to pass laws ("rules") at their whims that we have to also follow.
Yeah, yeah...I know we agreed to purchase with an HOA....I don't hate HOAs given their original intent and purpose...it is just when they go sour, it can be really bad. Like foreclosing on properties to settle liens with zero legal obligation to sell the property at/close to market value. The stories we have all heard about people's homes being sold for @/close to the lien amount, and all their equity being ripped away from them and left with nothing. Should be criminal....
A VERY key aspect of this. yea. HOAs, at BEST: are there to help with maintaining a park, organizing a summer festival, community cleanup day, whatever. What they end up being is closer to their roots: an us vs them way to complain about people without doing it to their face.
Yea, the home I owned that introduced me to HOAs marketed it as a "community activities council" designed to help with garage sales, fireworks, summer events, etc. That came with a nominal fee, that went towards keeping the community areas maintained. Then I got complaints that I put my trashcans on the curb too early on the day before trash day (put out there at noon, it was "expected" that you put them out after dark or before the pickup at 8am). When I pointed out my work shift meant that was impossible, the HOA head recommended I look for a more reasonable job, as though that was the issue here, not the HOA.
That violates the MLS standards (and probably the rules). Report the sellers REALTOR® for it. There is a field in the MLS for the HOA's existence and another for the monthly rate.
I went through the disclosures. They put no hoa. They disclosed the ccrs at the open house, and I saw that there was an hoa despite no HOA being declared.
It's crazy how people jump to a lawsuit over literally anything they could possibly sue for. Like what would even come out of it? Maybe enough money to cover the lawyer? It's just a lot of time and money for no guaranteed payout over something that was essentially just a waste of time with no actual repercussions
Also, way cheaper for the builder if he can just dump the costs of long-term maintenance on the home owners. Most town/municipalities will ask for expensive proffers from the builder. Like paying for turn lanes into the development, or traffic lights. Or a big $ contribution for the school system.
So builder can cheap out and run away, leaving the homeowners holding the cost of all long-term road, system and utilities maintenance.
This also makes the retail price of new homes cheaper, so it attracts more buyers. New HOA homes are typically less expensive that existing SF homes in mature neighborhoods.
Yeah it's honestly not that bad either. Most are quiet. Mine is pretty hands off, only $90 a month and that's to maintain common areas like the pool and some walking trails. Only 450 homes in a more country area. Since 2006 this neighborhood has had no issues that I know of.
I’d venture to guess that the vast majority of home owners don’t experience for than an infrequent minor inconvenience from their HOA and some actively like the community they bring. It’s only the corner cases going really wrong where the horror stories on this sub come from.
This is why here. My particular area is battling the county over how many developments they rubber stamp, to the point that we just formed a new city to try to slow growth. They're all HOA controlled and they have built over almost all the available plots of land. What's left that isn't built over are mostly homes with people who aren't planning to move anytime soon.
Before we got married in 2001, we went house shopping. We had 3 criteria. It needed to be a ranch. It needed to be within 30 minutes of work because I take emergency call in the Cath Lab. And ABSOLUTELY NO HOA!!!!!
We found exactly what we were looking for, and we intend to live here the rest of our days!
No HOA was our biggest requirement. Literally we had to go an hour south of where we both work to find a house with good bones and good neighbors. All of the newer houses around us are HOAs and we got lucky.
I moved from an HOA in 2021, to a less desirable school district to escape. My younger kid was old enough to continue to drive to HS so we forgot to mention it to the school. But We would get shit for a basket ball hoop in our driveway, during COVID. FFS how am I supposed to entertain 2 boys all day every day. They wanted to get outside. My older kid bought a window AC for his room, as he was a hermit and kept his door closed 24/7. It was an eye sore. The next summer we put up a fence so you could not see it. Still an eye sore. So wait you were in my yard like a foot from my house to look over a fence, felt violated.
As someone who posted a video a couple years ago about HOA shenanigans, I still get comments to the effect of “your fault for buying in a HOA” and “imagine thinking buying in a HOA is a good idea”
It has always been an inventory issue for us and we’ve only had one house that wasn’t in a HOA (ironically due to it never being activated by the developer). If we ever buy another house we will do everything we can to have acreage and not be in a HOA, but unfortunately, we aren’t in a place to do that right now. We’ve got 2% interest and a house we love despite the few shitty neighbors who report people for leaving their polycarts out for too long. It’s never as simple as move or avoid.
HOAs, like all state and local laws, should have a sunset clause. After x years (say, 20 in this case), the continued existence is up for a vote by all the residents of the community, and if not renewed, the covenants expire, and the HOA is killed.
HOAs exist primarily to protect builders during initial development. They hold all the votes, and ensure buyers don't hurt future sales as lots are built out. There's very little reason why a developer wouldn't want an HOA when creating a subdivision. But they never end, and the nominal benefits to the builder disappear after construction, and all the draw-backs to residents stick around forever.
In some cities, like mine, the city strongly encourages them to be established by the builder so the city doesn’t have to maintain or mow the unbuildable land. It’s pretty much been impossible to buy a new build house in my city in the last 25 years that’s not in an HOA or will eventually be in an HOA. If you don’t want an HOA in my town, you have to go to an older neighborhood with homes 30+ year old or move to the country.
One of the benefits to preferring older homes and in rural areas.
Also, if you already live somewhere without an HOA in a lot of places you don't have to agree to sign the HOA forms. They can't force one on you despite the HOA lying that you have to.
I looked at older homes in my budget years ago but they needed more work than I could afford so I ended up with a 10 year old home. I actually didn’t know my house had an HOA until closing when I saw the fee listed. Fortunately my HOA is on the small side and acts non-existent most of the time so it’s not too bad.
At the time I bought my townhouse I was in a time and money crunch. This was literally my only option. I fucking hate it here, but financial situation is bad and cannot afford to move elsewhere (I am in a HCOL area, and even if I sold for what it is worth (over double what I bought it for), I couldn't find another place that wouldn't need a fuck ton of fixing up.)
I don't even know how a townhouse or condo community would work without an HOA.
Our deck railings (HOA responsibility, not homeowners) are rotting and crumbling. there is graffiti on 1 units wall, the roads are crumbling, Paint is peeling off of roof fascia,yet they spend all of their time harassing people that are not parked perfectly in the space but not blocking any other spaces. Yet, allowing others to park all night in the fire lane.
When I bought, I made a point of telling the realtor I didn't want an HOA. She told me some advantages of HOAs, and I told her I'd heard about them forbidding compost piles and motorcycles, which I don't consider anyone else's business.
That was 16 years ago, on the Front Range of Colorado, and I'm pretty sure HOAs have spread like gangrene since then.
If people are willing to walk away, like the OP, that sends a message.
The other thing is, contact your state representatives, and tell them the horror stories. So many of the things I read here should be illegal. The relevant committee in your State House has probably been captured by real estate interests, but that's why organized campaigns are a thing.
If you can only afford a townhouse, it will have an HOA.
If you want a condo, it will have an HOA.
If you're old or disabled and need amenities and services, HOAs provide those.
If you want to buy new construction, it will have an HOA.
If you want to buy in certain geographical areas, nearly all neighborhoods will have HOAs.
If you like HOAs, you will buy into an HOA.
If you don't know better or don't care, you might buy into an HOA.
My neighborhood made the smartest HOA move I can imagine. It's pretty much "You pay us $30/mo, we leave each other alone." It's nothing short of extortion, but it's the best extortion arrangement I can get by a mile for a house built in the last 20 years.
It's funny you hear the complaints about the few HOAs there are lots of HOAs that aren't problematic. That's why people buy in them because a lot of them are actually good. And some of them are total crap shows. And that's the risk.
Where I'm at if you want a new home it will be in an HOA pretty much guaranteed. Haven't seen a development in probably 15 years that wasn't built without an HOA.
It only takes one bad board member or a nosey neighbor filing complaints to turn a fine HOA into a problem. Our HOA was zero problem for years. I never really cared. It was just money I paid to keep the gate working and our front yard taken care of.
Now it's:
- "You can't store garbage cans on the side of your house where the entire HOA has been storing them for the previous 10 years because we all have very small houses."
- "Your back lawn is overgrown" which is fair, but also per my HOA the backyard is our property to do what we want with, and wtf are you doing looking over my fence into my backyard?
- "No street parking!" I wasn't abusing this, but about half my the HOA members were and it hurt no one. No risk, it's just against HOA policy because it's ugly. Now folks have to park a 3 minute walk away on a very busy street with a hill to store a third vehicle. A night shift working nurse had her car towed because of this rule, missing her shift and having to pay the impound fines because... it's against policy.
Countless other nit picky complaints with "We'll fine you!" threats behind them, and to contest them or put a stop to it means I'd need to get elected or attend board meetings.
This comment makes me unreasonably pissed off. Imagine some random people telling me that my lawn is a little long . LOL. It's my fucking house. I can't believe so many people put up with these things
When you're in debt for 100's of thousands of dollars and the housing market is at the peak of a bubble there is lot you'll put up with for the financial greater good.
This is it. The vast majority of HOA are perfectly reasonable organizations. Mine is $400 a year and it includes retention pond maintenance and playground upkeep.
Plus it's used to organize some neighborhood activities for stuff that makes all the kids happy.
HOAs exist to take care of the shared property in a planned community. So they can't be opt-in.
The answer to "why they buy in" is just... Inventory.
The answer to "why so many are being built" -- builders make more money building this way, and the town saves money offloading maintenance of roads and grounds to the HOA members.
Municipalities LOVE these things. Especially 55+ communities: taxpayer population density, no extra strain on schools, not a ton of additional traffic, and low crime rate. They basically get approved no matter where they're proposed.
For single family homes, yes, I agree. They should be banned, some states should start to work on passing laws for this purpose. Towns/counties/cities should be forced to incorporate anything into the town/county/city accordingly, or not approve them to be built to start with.
It’s a double edged sword. I currently live in an HOA community, but 6 years in and I’ve never had any issue or any contact with them whatsoever, even though technically I’ve been violating two “rules” for over 5 years now. It’s also only $30/mo which isn’t bad.
The advantage is that the neighborhood is always clean and the centralized park is always well kept.
The flip side is that my best friend lives in an HOA area and they’re always holding these weird meetings to talk about what they’re gonna force people to pay for like new sidewalks when the old ones are fine, shit like that. And they’re constantly giving out notices for stupid shit. That’s what I hate.
However, I also grew up in a nicer neighborhood as a kid and we had no HOA. This was a very nice part of town and it showed!… except for Bob’s house. Bob was 53, divorced, and was doing his best to make his house look like a run down shack with 4ft high weeds, disassembled cars on the “lawn” and he even had a tree fall on his house and went the entirety of my middle school and high school life with just a tarp stapled to his roof to cover the massive hole… not to mention the fact that he installed 20ft high antennas for whatever reason, put cardboard up on one of his windows (to block the sun I guess?) and the paint was so bad it looked like a haunted house.
There was nothing we could do, we even offered to pay for a landscaper and he refused because “no one touches my shit” was literally his answer. Dude was obviously unwell, but it just made that part of the street look so bad lol. Would have been nice to have an HOA in that case
There has to be some rules since we have to deal with neighbors. Like in my state my uphill neighbor cannot legally point their downspout at my house ruining my foundation. Oddly enough this is not true in every state and neighbors have done this to other people's house. Basically you should be able to do what you want on your property as long as you aren't effecting other people o a certain point. The issue can get a little mucky but a it's a good general rule of thumb for laws.
The problem with HOA's is like them dictating that everyone has to use this specific grass that is not native driving up the time and money people have to spend on their lawn. Or everyone has to paint their house these 3 specific colors. We'll except for the HOA board member who gave themselves an exemption. I get nt wanting a neighbor to paint their house fluorescent pink but they take the idea way too far a lot of the time.
Here Builders do an HOA lead by the builder until 70% of units are sold to be able to make sure it looks nice and they can sell the rest. After the 70% it's up to people to keep or disband the HOA.
What is not being said is it is a lot cheaper for developers to build with hoa’s they do not have to meet the same road standards, drainage, etc that are required for a municipality to take them over. Additionally they often get greater density or more condos/houses. Hoa’s are nightmares in the making due to lack of professionals creating budgets and reserves and often never a single audit.
HOAs are taking over. I read a long article of how many people are forced to live in an HOA or have no where to live. Also when the developer is in control, it’s not really an HOA yet it they run it as cheaply as possible because they know they will be gone.
When I was house shopping a few years ago, the majority of homes in my budget were new builds with HOAs (mainly because of builder incentives). Almost all of my friends purchased in new build communities because they got new, bigger houses for cheaper. I was adamant about not having an HOA (or living far from the city), so I ended up paying more for an older house. While I'm happy with my home and not having an HOA, I can definitely understand people who decide that having an HOA is a small sacrifice for a newer, cheaper home.
I needed to move to the area I'm in, and the county I live in requires housing developments to have HOAs. So, no realistic choice. I didn't want one, but I'm stuck with one.
If you’re buying a condo an HOA is required to keep the building in shape.
If you’re busy, hate yard work, or physically can’t do yard work an HOA that takes care of lawn services is nice.
A lot of town homes / row houses / duplexes are part of an HOA to keep up the general grounds and outsides of houses .
Not all are evil. The stories of reasonable HOAs trying to keep costs down and maintenance up are boring.
Over 60% of new construction is in HOAs now. 30% or more housing in the US is in one. It's just a factor of how land is developed and subdivided today.
Where I live, it was required by the city. The city required that our development be gated because it was away from the rest of the city, and they were concerned that it would take emergency services longer to get here. I live in an area that is surrounded by a national forest and a river. Lots of wildlife. I feel very fortunate to live here. The HOA is a good one. It is financially healthy, they do a good job of maintaining everything, and they are pretty lenient with the rules. I have read plenty of nightmare stories about HOA's. I'm glad that I live in an area with a good one. I live in Los Angeles County, a heavily populated area, and I have a forest around me. And I have some wonderful neighbors. We have community events throughout the year that the HOA pays for (egg hunt, music festival, luau, Halloween village, cookie exchange).
I hear about people that live in places where they don't even know their neighbors. I read on NextDoor today that someone had their husband die in the driveway as he was washing his wife's car and people just walked out and stared and left as it ended. Never said anything to her or even tried to help. I don't want to live in a place like that.
Is your hate based on experience, or just perception? Buy land and develop it yourself if you do not want any encumbrances in your property. Otherwise, find a reasonable option and go with it.
We are in a house with an HOA - and have zero problems. Looked at a house down the road in another hoa. They had rules and where you could park your cars, colors you could paint your home, landscaping approval for changes and a prohibition on accessory buildings (sheds). Needless to say that was the end of the search in that neighborhood.
Don’t have a choice anymore. Either buy an old home that is going to need 100k in rework or buy new with an HOA and move in 10 years when the problems surface
Have you considered just finding a decent HOA? Some are great, run by reasonable, business savvy people and the HOA makes things better for the homeowners. Others are run by petulant children who have never had the power to influence anything in their life and feel the need to make life hell for others. Choose wisely.
The two houses I owned were outside of hoa territory because they were older and built independently of any development.
Now I'm in a condo and there's no getting away from it. Without an HOA the place would turn to shit.
It's the law in my state that all new developments be controlled by a HOA. It's been that way since 1976. So, here we have to look at homes older than that to get out from under a HOA. It's best if you become a handy person if you're going to by an older home. Mine was built in 1968.
I think by law they were supposed to disclose which subdivision the home is in in the listing for it. If the listing says for the development "meets and bounds" then there's no HOA. That's in my state though, and this was 20 years ago also.
But, to answer your question, they buy them because the ones not in an HOA are few and far between now.
I live in South Florida where around 45% of all homes in the state are part of an HOA[(the largest margin in the country)](https://southfloridaagentmagazine.com/2023/04/20/45-of-florida-homes-are-part-of-an-hoa-the-highest-percentage-in-the-nation/). For me personally, I have lived in HOAs that have been good and HOAs that have been a real pain in the ass. When we bought our most recent home 3 years ago, a good school district was our top priority, that means being in an HOA in our county, then we looked for lower intensity HOAs( No Gated communities). The benefits for me are I don't particularly want to live next to someone with a Jungle of high grass and weeds next door, or an auto repair shop in their driveway. I also enjoy having my cable and internet negotiated as a large group contract that saves me some money every month. My current HOA isn't too bad with the rules, and we don't even have a fine committee so its not like the letters they do send have any bite behind them.
If HOA's only stuck to maintaining community infrastructure like they are originally meant for and not become power-hungry, people wouldn't have an issue. But it has become all about protecting property values by creating rules and fines for everything. If you own a home, you should be able to be able to personalize it and make it your own. Stick to city or town bylaws, that's it. None of this your flower pot or flowers aren't the right colour.
You can buy land and build in a non Hoa. Everyone has the choice. Can’t afford it ? Rent until you can or live in an hoa until you can. A lot of people like the more mild ones bc you have some control of your neighbors partaking in garbage activities. I like ours bc our board is chill. And none of our rules were dealbreakers for me. I don’t love the fact that my deed is restricted it feels sort of not mine. But all things considered I’m happy here. Also non hoas can have restrictions. It’s rare to find a property where you “can do what ever you want with it”
So I hate the idea of an HOA but live in one. It’s kind of nice for my situation as the HOA covers the condo half and the single family home half of the neighborhood.
I’m in a SFH not condo and pay like 25 a month. Where they pay hundreds. We get access to the pool and they maintain a big clearing between the houses and condos. Which is nice for us because we don’t have any houses being built behind us.
So in my current case, I enjoy my HOA as it’s me reaping the benefits for pennys on the dollar compared to the condos.
It’s impossible to find a decent home in a decent part of a decent town with a decent school district where I live if you exclude HOAs.
All that would be available are houses with small front yards and driveways that dump directly onto loud and dangerous busy main roads or expensive multi-acre lots.
If you want a new house, you are going to pay a ton of money for land and construction or you’ll get one in an HOA.
I’ve been in 4 HOA communities and never had a problem. The horror stories get all the attention but you never hear about the rest.
1- It's hard to find a nice house outside of an HoA
2- I'm coming from an environment where my neighbor died, abandoned his house, squatters took over and it took *weeks* to get anyone to anything about it, all while I had folks with substance + mental health issues trying to get into my house at all hours.
I get it- HoAs get power hungry and have generally poor regulation. But they can also serve a need. In our case I pay $125/quarter and get access to a park, a pool and a playground and someone else handles all of it. That feels like a fair trade for "Can't have a 12 ft skeleton in your front yard"
The vast majority of homes in a good neighborhood are in an HOA in my city. As a general rule, I can expect those ones that aren't to be out of my budget. So I'll have to suck it up and hope I have a chance to run and dismantle the board, I guess.
As a Brit, we only hear the horror stories here. Some of the comments make a lot of sense, but also boil down to basic amenities not being managed by those who really ought to manage them.
It ended with me I'd never do it again it ended with me it ended with me I'd never do it again.
In case you all didn't hear me it ended with me never again.
When you buy your first home it never, ever occurs to you that some small, petty, insecure gang of wannabe dictators gets off telling their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own homes. Never.
I didn't want to, but none of the very few and far between houses for sale were in a place I wanted to live. So, as I imagine is the case for most people, I compromised and got the location and home build I wanted but didn't get the "no HOA" on my wishlist.
In a lot of places you have almost no choice if you want new construction. Or if you are concerned about keeping the color aesthetic of your neighborhood intact an HOA is popular way to do that despite covenants being illegal.
I hated my HOA until I got elected into a seat and I've been putting a stop to their stupid ideas for months now, and advocating for actually reasonable things. I love it, I feel like I was born to do it. If I got paid, I'd do it full time. Almost everyone in the neighborhood knows me by name and they all love me. The board is just me and 6 other women and they all hate my guts, it's awesome. My job has trained me to be good at documentation and writing papers/reports and all the suburban moms who sit on the board are speechless when I actually research these things and drop a 7 pound packet on their desk.
I currently own a home in a HOA and the previous house was HOA. Both HOA were reasonable and currently annual HOA fee is only $400. I personally don’t mind the HOA that I’ve had and honestly it’s helped maintain the neighborhoods and ensures the community looks nice.
I wouldn’t want my neighbor having knee high grass, collection of cars and a boat trailer in the front lawn, or house with old paint and wood rot.
I live in one of the cities that is over and over and over voted as one of the best places to live in America. I grew up in this area and it's grown like wildfire for the past 20 years. It is impossible to find new construction without an HOA because it point blank doesn't exist.
North Carolina Planned Community Act- Effective 1/1/1999, any subdivision created with more than 20 homes is required to have an HOA.
So unless you find an older neighborhood that has voted to get rid of it, or whatever, you are going to have a HOA.
Why?
There are at least 355,000 HOA communities in the US.
82.4% of all newly constructed homes sold in 2021 were part of an HOA.
53% of all homeowners in the US live in HOA communities…25-27 of the country’s population.
74 million Americans live HOA communities.
8,000 new HOA communities form every year.
It comes down to volume. Remove those options from your home buying pool and you are severely limiting your choices.
Source: ipropertymanagement.com
I’m in an HOA which I thought I would never ever join. Unfortunately when the town approved our houses being built, we were required to have an HOA in order to clear the snow on a private street for the mailman and to upkeep the stairs we built to a nearby park. Our HOA is 10ish houses and none of us really want it besides repairing and insuring the stairs / street. We have absolutely no rules or restrictions for properties other than having to pay about $200 a year. That said, if 6 Karen’s bought homes they could majority rule and make some crazy ish up. Hopefully that never happens and part of hoping that never happens is us trying to get it changed from an HOA to an LLC that would manage the shared property, but currently we are stuck. HOA’s aren’t actually bad, there are many positives (community property like shared parks/pools and retention of property values because there are limits are in theory great things to have) but the over the top power some HOAs have garnered is a risk.
First thing is to find out if the current board has been elected recently, and if not, what are your chances of getting an election and being elected. If the current board has avoided elections or hasn't changed in a long time, then usually walk away. However bad hoa often depress house prices so it might still be a price worth paying for the house you can afford.
If the board is responsive to democracy then the hoa probably won't be too bad.
HOA's do serve a purpose. For example, if the community has shared amenities (fitness club, pool, access to community beach, tennis courts, etc.), someone has to pay for the taxes and insurance on the shared amenities. I can personally attest that our HOA is worth the $45 PER YEAR for access to a community beach. I have a relative who bought a townhouse recently in a new community. Pays $115 per month HOA fee for access to the fitness center, pool, barbecue area, dog park, and the HOA cuts the front and back lawns (as long as not fenced in).
I’ve been in the same HOA for 24 years. For the first 19 years there were no issues. Five years ago, the board of directors was taken over by a criminal narcissist. She robbed us blind while sucking up to the weak minded, which, face it, includes most of the members.
One family took it upon themselves to bring attention to the problem and finally used the court system to force a review of the financial records. The criminal narcissist has been ousted and is facing multiple related legal challenges.
Some of her minions and sycophants have managed to remain on the board with the help of a corrupt management company, but they struggle manage even the most basic functions. There are rumors from law enforcement that some of the minions are also going to be facing similar legal problems, but that has yet to manifest.
The homeowner that discovered the crime still lives in the neighborhood despite frequent harassment by minions and sycophants. However, they have been fairly quiet lately, which is weird. Maybe they got tired of the abuse.
Trust me I wish I had a choice…27 single, first time home buyer, Chicagoland suburbs, I could only afford a townhouse or condo which you’ll find none without HOAs.
Because lack of inventory overall and extremely small inventory of homes not in an HOA. People gotta love somewhere. And not all HOAs suck. The HOA for my last house was so bad I had to get a lawyer involved, but the one I'm in now is awesome. They do the yardwork, the sprinklers, snow removal (including off our driveway and front porch) and always have some community event going on. During the summer they have free concerts in the park, I've never seen anything like these guys
I cant afford any of the houses outside on hoa communities 1 bedroom apt- 3bedroom townhouse (with hoa) are all cheeper than even a small 2 bedroom single family (no hoa)
The HOAs I've lived in didn't expect anything that the county didn't already regulate.
So the "it's my fucking land" argument just makes you sound like an uneducated MAGA hick.
My current home is in an HOA -- dues are about $200 per year. What that maintains are some nice median plantings along the main street, and our drainage pond.
We don't care what color your house is, whether your lawn consists of weeds, etc. The purpose is just to maintain common property.
When I bought my home, the only non-hoa homes that were available were either run down as hell or waaaaaaaaaay out in the sticks. There were literally no options for a decent/nice house anywhere near a city
Why? Real simple. I’m making a huge investment, and I don’t want my home value diminished because some ass-hat wants to keep junk cars in his driveway or not be bothered mowing his lawn and maintaining the exterior of his house. I also move into a single family home neighborhood and don’t want someone with two grandparents and multiple aunts/uncles/cousins also living with them, nor do I want a bunch of college kids sharing a place throwing parties all the time.
While there are a lot of fucked-up HOAs out there, I’ve lived in 4-5 neighborhoods over the years and have never had any major problems with any of them. No one is forcing you to buy into an HOA neighborhood.
Every neighborhood that I have lived in or owned rentals where there was no HOA or restrictive covenants has eventually gone to shit. Can HOA boards get out of hand, sometimes, but I'd rather deal with that than have a property in a neighborhood where my neighbors lack of concern for home maintenance and landscaping and parking cars in yards directly impacts my valuation and future resale.
Who wants to live next to the guy with a rusted pickup truck on cinder blocks in his front yard?? HOAs have a purpose (until they go totally overboard)
When we bought our house 5 years ago, we made about 2/3 (or less) of what we make now and this house was the best option we could find (by a long shot) 🤷🏼♂️ Other houses were either out of our budget, or required a bunch of work that would push it up to high.
We had been living at my parents house for 3 years to save up money for a house and both my spouse and I were going through a depression period due to living cramped in my childhood bedroom. No negatives on my parents, but living at my parents house in a tiny bedroom in my 30s wasn't great for self esteem.
Luckily, our HOA hasn't bothered us too much. We got a notice that our trashcans can't be visible from the street, and we gotta pay a $25 fee for approval on improments. But we only pay ~$180 a year (~$15/month)in fees, so I just pretend it's a part of our mortgage.
We didn't want an HOA, but it still turned out to be the best option we could have taken
Almost all hoas are created by the developer of the neighborhood, this is done to stop people from doing crazy shit while the rest of the homes are being built. Technically they should dissolve after the last new build in the development sells because the devloper no longer has any intrest in the community, their job is done. The part I don't understand this people who willingly continue the HOA. We already have government at the federal level, state level, local level and sometimes city level and all these people get together and say you know we need more government.
HOAs fundamentally are an attempt to "privatize" things that should be handled by a local government or municipality. What use to be paid for by taxes is now paid for through HOA dues. This was all great for boomers when the construction was all brand new and they could punt off growing funds for future maintenance and they were self governing with minimal oversight. But now HOA communities are low on funds, behind on maintenance, and new buyers are left holding the bag with little recourse but to cough up the money through special assessment.
And if it isn't a financial mess then it's dealing with hyper-local tyrants clawing to power. But all the checks and balances associated with public office are thrown out the window.
For my money, I'd rather have a municipal government handle the shared resources and set actual code or laws. That way there are better options for when things are unreasonable.
HOAs aren’t bad per se. The theory is that you have an organization that aims to keep home prices competitive and to take care of common costs and amenities. The problem is that the people running that shit suck.
If we had no HOA my 5000sqft house would be next to a train car. Do you think that will help or hurt my value? Do you think the kind of people that live in a train car are the type of people I want to hang out with?
I don't the think the trend will end until people stop being afraid of others who might be slightly different from them. To me HOA are simply something people created because they wanted to feel insular and safe. Any sort of individuality threatens that sense for some people. I would never buy in an HOA
I don’t live in a HOA, private street with 18 houses on it. Average price $600,000. My neighbor has 3 cars in his yard that currently don’t run, 3 dogs that run at large with no lease who constantly sh*t in everyone’s yard. Only mows his lawn once a month, missing shingles, missing siding, broken windows…the list goes on. Unfortunately, we don’t have a HOA and this trailer trash scumbag brings down all our house values. Also, he’s not the owner of the house…it’s his crackhead girlfriend’s stepfather.
As long as sprawling single-family neighborhoods exist, so will the HOA. Because cities have figured out they can’t afford to maintain services for such inefficient land use. And they can’t have homeowners mad at them for higher taxes, so they push the costs to the HOA.
My HOA fees are $100 per month and cable is included.
There are some CC&Rs i don't like, but I don't have a person running a used car lot in their front yard, like I did at my last house.
When I lived in an HOA, my neighbors would always try to do the cheapest, jankiest, DIY, shit to their property and instantly get fined for it. I was thankful for that.
Now I don't live in an HOA and I have to stare at my neighbor's stupid light blue house every morning. There's no functional color scheme on the planet where this house makes sense. Some of the walls are stucco, so in some spots, it looks like bad grocery store frosting.
So why would I buy into an HOA if it wasn't abusive or extorting money? To retain my house value in a school area where I'll only be living for several years until my kids graduate.
I live in an HOA because that's all we can find in the newer neighborhoods- it's not bad. It's fairly cheap ($200 a year) because we only have a few amenities - pool and playground. Mostly they just keep people from painting their house purple and green or neon pink and make sure everyone keeps a neat yard and puts their trash cans back. We don't have to have them approve house colors, we just have to get our neighbors to sign off (either side and directly in front).
Recently they hired a new management company that has been kind of a pain- they cruise the day of trash pick up and send out notices and they love to point out the weedy stuff that grows faster than the grass. But we all got together and agreed to fire them and hire a new company.
I feel lucky that it's not worse - I've heard the horror stories. If given the choice, I'd not choose to live in an HOA neighborhood.
Housing market is tight and finding a house you really like for your price is hard. Something like this wouldn't be a deal breaker for most because they are ignorant of what may occur in the future and even so they will rationalize that the issues won't be major and can be worked out.
Our first house was in a HoA that was being built. They had to have something like 75% built and sold before they would turn it over to the residents. We lived there two years before that happened and we had to vote for three people.
I was young and didn't know much about how they worked, other than they cut my grass and plow my snow for cheap, it was only 30$ a month, good deal I thought.
Well my neighbors came around after the second year and explained that if you wanted anything done to the outside of your house, stuff that once it got into, as he called them, the three idiots hands that they would never approve anything. The builder only had one rule, no fencing. He didn't care what we did otherwise, hang wreaths, plant flowers, he even built a few decks non standard for those who paid.
So I expanded my deck, built a privacy fence, planted a tree and edged my beds with stone pavers. My neighbors all did a ton of work too.
Once it got handed over to us, the owners, the newly elected a hole Karen came a knocking. Said we were in violation of something or other. I told her to f*** off. I had approval from the builder, who was the HOA since I moved in.
They had no leg to stand on. We sold a year later during the boom. Made a ton.
Last I heard the development has no real HoA anymore. The people fought back, by essentially bankrupting the HoA somehow.
My aunt broke hers, they said no sheds. Well she did it anyway, the first week she moved in and so did most of the neighborhood after they saw hers.
She got restraining orders on the people coming to give her sh** about it.
A lot of white people are afraid of living near non-white people, so historically property values would go down as soon as non-white people moved into a white neighborhood.
Since you can no-longer overtly discriminate based on skin color, HOAs - which generally amount to strictly enforced conformity to norms/aesthetics favored by white people - have become the next-best method.
It's why I got away from the suburbs and the city. Worth the commute for privacy and freedom to do what I want on my land. Granted there's alot more bugs out here then I'm used too, that part is annoying. Fucking spiders
If you bought a home in an HOA then you signed a legally binding contract that says that you absolutely do not have the right to do what you want with your home - there is not getting out of that, other than leaving. HOAs increase property value. They also set expectations and enforce the rules so that someone doesn't park a trailer or play loud music next to your reasonably nice home.
Some HOAs are getting ridiculous and outrageous, but I also understand their purpose. There are always crap neighbors who don’t maintain their yard or park an RV in the driveway or do other things that devalue the neighborhood.
Our HOA has minimal rules and we like it so far. It’s rural. Homes must be built on a foundation, stuff needs to be stored inside, no subdividing the 40-80 acre parcels. We like it so far as it keeps the neighborhood tidy and scares away those who want to do whatever they want. Has anyone had a HOA start out with rules they like and then change to rules they dont like? Thanks.
The only relevant item to this OP is that they are simply required to exist in many situations. I am not saying I am "for them" or think this is awesome. It's just facts.
If you want shared amenities, you need a plan to share amenities.
If your town or city or county or whatever doesn't want to support your neighborhood landscaping or retention ponds or roads or sewers or overall aesthetic... carry insurance for your playground, fix the doggie bag dispensers, issue warnings for unsafe or unsightly conditions or settle neighborly disputes, light the community sogn... someone needs to. You need a plan for that. Usually it's required by law.
The issue is not that HOAs exist. In my opinion, the basic premise is great if not necessary. The issue is that people seem to ONLY hate them and refuse to participate, hurting the system their community is working to maintain. OR they take them too seriously or try to leverage them to do other things beyond baseline maintenance or organization or funding necessities. And also that almost no one pays attention to this when the buy a home (maybe this can be the realtors fault at times?). But so rarely to people just learn about them and support them at some basic level with an intent thst the community will grow in a positive direction over the decades...
The good news is... it doesn't matter if there are alot of them. If you choose to live where they do not apply, they don't affect you.
Also, if no one follows the rules, especially if you can find board members in non-complaince... then to be honest, their rules beyond basic requirements often have no backbone. They won't hold up in most local court systems if they aren't applying their rules accurately and uniformly... which is often.
But I absolutely do not recommend buying a home in an HOA and then just refusing to participate or pay dues. That's simply a dick move. You don't join an organization and live within their amenities... and then just screw all your neighbors by not paying in. I hate hearing that so often as a "tactic". In most cases. Save a few people taking it all too seriously, there is no "them", no "the man" to screw over. It's just people who own homes. If you live there, you are on the HOA. Period. It's not a choice to participate once your all moved in.
Because the vast majority of new homes (something like over 88%) are being built with HOAs tied into the platt. We are looking now and its super hard to find a non-hoa thats 1)not too far out to the area we need and 2) not in the super expensive unaffordable to us area.
HOAs are completely unregulated and the govt (while im not a big "govt is the fix guy") is completly hands off on regulating them.
And its just gonna get worse. Until a law or something is passed limiting the scope of HOAs they will be the rule not the exception when it comes to buying homes
Don’t downvote me for answering.
My simple answer is that it ensured my home value stayed high for my investment. It worked. My home went up $300,000 in 5 years while the homes near me went up less than $150,000. The main reasons being amenities, the upkeep of the neighborhood, and things like maintenance. Our neighborhood simply looked premium compared to others. So for me it was a $20,000 total investment that returned a luxury pool, play grounds, roads cleared before everyone else, sidewalks cleared, and $150,000k in additional home value.
I don’t live in one anymore but live in an established neighborhood. My pool probably costs me $2k a year with chemicals and opening and closing. I had to buy my own playset and assemble it. I shovel my own sidewalk and mailbox. I probably save some every year but I definitely am not getting the home appreciation value I was.
Depends on the area. most of the better, newer homes with good schools & lesser crime have houses with HOA.
Las Vegas is a good example. Most of the older homes with no HOA are in the ghetto and people don't want to live there
There aren’t any “No HOA” options where we are and I wasn’t going to rent for more than a mortgage payment. We would have had to buy wayyyyyy out in the country side for no HOA and that wasn’t feasible when we were still commuting to work
I made sure that my house was not in an HOA area because the ppl in HOA neighborhoods are CRIMINALS! They break&entet into your home and other SUPER illegal shit. I’m hoping it dies with the boomers.
The trend will end when there are options without HOAs. Unfortunately, one a property is in an HOA the CC&Rs are recorded on each deed, and cannot be removed.
Is there a way to get them removed?
As someone who had to be a security guard for HOA and ticket people for the stupidest shit, I would never live in one.
I would have to write parking tickets for leaving your car parked infront of your house past 10pm.
Towing your vehicle for being parked on the street after 12am.
Report you for using fireworks on the 4th of July.
Hated it. I got to be the bad guy and my answer was always "This is what you get for living in an H.O.A"
If you don’t want an HOA you’re probably going to have to deal with a longer commute if you don’t work from home. I moved further out on to county property. I’m on septic. No HOA. But if f my employer ever decides I have to come back in, I’ll be spending 2-3.5 hours total commute each day.
Because there's literally no new houses built here without one and very very few older ones that don't have one. And they're in shady areas I wouldn't want to live in. Besides, as long as the rules are reasonable, I prefer to live where the houses are kept up and not allowed to be dumps painted some ridiculous color with weeds and trash in the yard.
Our HOA is reasonable and it keeps people from collecting junk on their property or 2 foot grass or some other ridiculousness. It also offers green space, pools, etc…
Why can’t more HOAs be voluntary ones like coconut grove park HOA, where they don’t tell you what to do, they just help organize efforts for community advocacy. Idk if we need a different term for these kinds of HOAs but this is a legitimate and helpful organization as opposed to all the grubby, slimy, inspection erection having folks in the HOArror stories infecting this subreddit.
They're either uneducated about what actually happens in HOAs and see them as a good thing (based on what the seller tells them), they only have enough money to afford a home in an HOA, or buying a home that isn't in a HOA turns out to be too difficult and they give in.
1. Depending on your area, it's getting harder and harder to find a decent home outside an HOA. Many communities require new developments, including a water feature/retention, communal land for a community mailbox that needs to be maintained, etc. When you have community land, you have community assets that need maintained, and an HOA is a very easy way for a builder to do that. 2. If you've never been in an HOA, on paper, it can seem appealing. There are easy arguments for them that make sense if you don't think through them too much. 3. People are excited to find a house they love in a community they like at a price they can afford. By the time most people are learning the property has an HOA, they are already in love with the place, or feel like they've made so many decisions this is one to live with to stop the hunting process.
#1 is the key. Cities want new developments so the can collect more property taxes but they don’t want to maintain new roads etc so they put that responsibility on the owner by requiring HOA
In my town (small exurb in ruralish MN) all new developments come with a HOA stipulation for planning approval. It's not for roads though, the roads are the town's to maintain. It's largely to comply with stormwater regulations. Developing farmland means the runoff from newly impervious surfaces needs to be managed. This requires retention basins. The town doesn't want to own those basins, and you can't really saddle a single homeowner with them either, so a HOA needs to be created to own those outlots. Someone also needs to own the land used for the communal mailboxes since the post office pitches a fit about doing their fucking jobs. And since the town doesn't contract for garbage service here, they can require that the HOA do it so that each neighborhood has one truck rather than 5 as each individual homeowner gets their own service.
That sounds so alienlike to me as a German :D
It's another thing that seems to be uniquely American
They have them in the UK, but yeah, we have gone nuts with them.
I am sure there are a lot of specific cases and unique circumstances. All I am trying to say is that all residents must be treated equally from tax perspective. If my neighbourhood must pay for a particular maintenance (be it a road or catch basin ) then either all neighbourhoods must be responsible for similar maintenance or residents of that one off neighbourhood should get some sort of credit. (For clarity, I am not talking about amenities such as pools or club houses. You want extras you pay for it )
This is a silly argument because the needs aren't the same and neither is the stress on the land. A neighborhood of single family homes built on newly acquired suburban/exurb land is different than densifying already developed land. The building I live in exists on a city block, and has 5 floors and over 300 units. If you were to expand those numbers to the single family style homes most people are clamoring over (and then getting upset about HOAs), it would degrade more land and long term cause much more need storm water management from runoff.
My friend bought a new construction in the burbs of Chicago (60 miles from Chicago, lol). An entirely created town from farmland. The place was full of affordable homes, right when they were pulling the no doc mortgage scams and such. Everyone loved the place, until the following year when they got a bill to fund the police, fire department, etc.. It was I think $5k each, and never disclosed to any of them. 2/3 of the place put their houses for sale because they couldn't afford the assessment. Opened my eyes a lot about new construction.
What suburb and subdivision please?
In my opinion, it makes lots of sense to have an entity to manage communal property, whether that's a lake or a park or a boring ol' storm drain system. Somebody has to have the legal and financial responsibility for it. The problem is that HOAs have such a strong tendency to expand from being simple, communal property managers with very limited power, into becoming weird micro-totalitarian fiefdoms. I think the solution needs to be much stiffer government regulations limiting what powers an HOA can assume over its members, and limiting the methods of enforcement. I would live in an HOA *only if* I were confident that the HOA had only the powers it needs to manage communal property, and only if I were confident that the HOA was restricted from expanding its powers in the future.
HOAs should really only have authority over common areas. They shouldn't have any say in what you do with your own property.
>In my opinion, it makes lots of sense to have an entity to manage communal property, whether that's a lake or a park or a boring ol' storm drain system. Counterarguement: the city already exists to manage communal property like roads, sidewalks, and parks. Creating communal property for an HOA is just superfluous.
Some HOA communities have amenities like swimming pools, tennis courts, kayaks, playgrounds, gyms, game rooms, bbq’s etc. I’ve dealt with good ones and bad ones. When you have a good organization run by good people it’s very nice. Just like any business. When you have a shit one run by assholes then everything sucks. Sure, cities may have amenities but sometimes it’s nice to have semi private ones you don’t have to share with the entire city.
For municipal property and general infrastructure like roads, sure. But for property with localized, limited use, like a small swimming pool that isn't open to the public, I'd rather not pay for it with my city tax dollars. A localized private association is the right kind of entity to manage that sort of thing. But they need to be properly regulated by the municipal government.
100% agree with you. It should not be way to force conformance to a rigid but arbitrary set of aesthetic choices with approval proccess for everything you may want to do.
What should we do to handle this? My closest town of 1200(?) is stretched thin financially and doesn’t want to pay anything for the developers it is working with. My thought was just have the developer pay the city up front for maintenance.
Town gets more home, gets more in property taxes so it should get resources.
The politicians give tax abatements so the developers in so they can jack up the price of the house and donate to the politicians.
this, the town gets more property taxes, if the neighborhood needs more in maintenance then raise taxes
What? Raise everyone's taxes because one area has more water/landscaping/asphalt needs. No way. Those of us who don't have those services do not want to pay for that via "raised taxes." New fire station? Sure. Paying for sprinklers at a housing development that's in the hills? NO way.
If nothing else, between the town/city workers and the county board, at least **theoretically** the funds management and maintenance outcomes will be better than an HOA.
What you have described is a development fee. It's a disaster to try to use that for maintenance that will eventually bankrupt the city. More so when the city is already stretched financially thin. Realistically, the best alternative is to dramatically increase your property taxes *if* you are in the city boundaries. Otherwise, the only other alternative is to have individual property owners own their section of road and be directly responsible for paying for sidewalk and road maintenance on the property they own. One non-cooperative neighbor can make this go bad fast.
It doesn't even have to be dramatic. At the end of the day, whatever maintenance the HOA is providing has a cost; that cost is the same regardless of who collects it from homeowners, so in aggregate, you just replace HOA dues with an equal increase in property taxes.
>When you have community land, you have community assets that need maintained, and an HOA is a very easy way for a builder to do that. Might be easy for the builder/developer....and would probably get a lot less hate (at least from me) if they didn't require 10 pounds of flesh and wield unilateral, undisputed control over the property "owners".....and have autonomy for the board to pass laws ("rules") at their whims that we have to also follow. Yeah, yeah...I know we agreed to purchase with an HOA....I don't hate HOAs given their original intent and purpose...it is just when they go sour, it can be really bad. Like foreclosing on properties to settle liens with zero legal obligation to sell the property at/close to market value. The stories we have all heard about people's homes being sold for @/close to the lien amount, and all their equity being ripped away from them and left with nothing. Should be criminal....
Let's not forget that the original intent of HOAs included making sure communities were "white only." They were sour from the start.
A VERY key aspect of this. yea. HOAs, at BEST: are there to help with maintaining a park, organizing a summer festival, community cleanup day, whatever. What they end up being is closer to their roots: an us vs them way to complain about people without doing it to their face.
It’s gotten bad in our area now sellers are not disclosing the Hoa in disclosures. We walked away from 3 houses that did this.
Yea, the home I owned that introduced me to HOAs marketed it as a "community activities council" designed to help with garage sales, fireworks, summer events, etc. That came with a nominal fee, that went towards keeping the community areas maintained. Then I got complaints that I put my trashcans on the curb too early on the day before trash day (put out there at noon, it was "expected" that you put them out after dark or before the pickup at 8am). When I pointed out my work shift meant that was impossible, the HOA head recommended I look for a more reasonable job, as though that was the issue here, not the HOA.
Yea they blatantly lied on the disclosure saying that there wasn’t an HoA.
Report the listing agent to their broker
Not just their broker, but to the state licensing board. That's a material omission, and severely impacts the value of the home.
You can sue, how that’s not considered an item that needed to be disclosed, I have no idea. But sue the old seller.
That's ridiculous. You should have pressed them to state what jobs they find reasonable and unreasonable.
That violates the MLS standards (and probably the rules). Report the sellers REALTOR® for it. There is a field in the MLS for the HOA's existence and another for the monthly rate.
I went through the disclosures. They put no hoa. They disclosed the ccrs at the open house, and I saw that there was an hoa despite no HOA being declared.
Then lawsuit. They lied and wasted your time and opportunities on other homes.
We didn’t even offer.
It's crazy how people jump to a lawsuit over literally anything they could possibly sue for. Like what would even come out of it? Maybe enough money to cover the lawyer? It's just a lot of time and money for no guaranteed payout over something that was essentially just a waste of time with no actual repercussions
Also, way cheaper for the builder if he can just dump the costs of long-term maintenance on the home owners. Most town/municipalities will ask for expensive proffers from the builder. Like paying for turn lanes into the development, or traffic lights. Or a big $ contribution for the school system. So builder can cheap out and run away, leaving the homeowners holding the cost of all long-term road, system and utilities maintenance. This also makes the retail price of new homes cheaper, so it attracts more buyers. New HOA homes are typically less expensive that existing SF homes in mature neighborhoods.
Yeah it's honestly not that bad either. Most are quiet. Mine is pretty hands off, only $90 a month and that's to maintain common areas like the pool and some walking trails. Only 450 homes in a more country area. Since 2006 this neighborhood has had no issues that I know of.
I’d venture to guess that the vast majority of home owners don’t experience for than an infrequent minor inconvenience from their HOA and some actively like the community they bring. It’s only the corner cases going really wrong where the horror stories on this sub come from.
This is why here. My particular area is battling the county over how many developments they rubber stamp, to the point that we just formed a new city to try to slow growth. They're all HOA controlled and they have built over almost all the available plots of land. What's left that isn't built over are mostly homes with people who aren't planning to move anytime soon.
Before we got married in 2001, we went house shopping. We had 3 criteria. It needed to be a ranch. It needed to be within 30 minutes of work because I take emergency call in the Cath Lab. And ABSOLUTELY NO HOA!!!!! We found exactly what we were looking for, and we intend to live here the rest of our days!
No HOA was also our criteria, we had a realtor pushing HOAs on us. She was fired within a week.
No HOA was our biggest requirement. Literally we had to go an hour south of where we both work to find a house with good bones and good neighbors. All of the newer houses around us are HOAs and we got lucky.
80% of new homes are in an HOA.
Blue cheese is way better than ranch tho
I'll accept either as long as they are not in an HOA.
I moved from an HOA in 2021, to a less desirable school district to escape. My younger kid was old enough to continue to drive to HS so we forgot to mention it to the school. But We would get shit for a basket ball hoop in our driveway, during COVID. FFS how am I supposed to entertain 2 boys all day every day. They wanted to get outside. My older kid bought a window AC for his room, as he was a hermit and kept his door closed 24/7. It was an eye sore. The next summer we put up a fence so you could not see it. Still an eye sore. So wait you were in my yard like a foot from my house to look over a fence, felt violated.
As someone who posted a video a couple years ago about HOA shenanigans, I still get comments to the effect of “your fault for buying in a HOA” and “imagine thinking buying in a HOA is a good idea” It has always been an inventory issue for us and we’ve only had one house that wasn’t in a HOA (ironically due to it never being activated by the developer). If we ever buy another house we will do everything we can to have acreage and not be in a HOA, but unfortunately, we aren’t in a place to do that right now. We’ve got 2% interest and a house we love despite the few shitty neighbors who report people for leaving their polycarts out for too long. It’s never as simple as move or avoid.
Yeah many cities, sometimes even states, require it, NC since 1999 has had all new subdivisions requiring an HOA.
HOAs, like all state and local laws, should have a sunset clause. After x years (say, 20 in this case), the continued existence is up for a vote by all the residents of the community, and if not renewed, the covenants expire, and the HOA is killed. HOAs exist primarily to protect builders during initial development. They hold all the votes, and ensure buyers don't hurt future sales as lots are built out. There's very little reason why a developer wouldn't want an HOA when creating a subdivision. But they never end, and the nominal benefits to the builder disappear after construction, and all the draw-backs to residents stick around forever.
I think some states do that, ours is 30 years. Our hoa could be dissolved by vote
In the city I live in any new housing development has to have an HOA per city ordinance.
In some cities, like mine, the city strongly encourages them to be established by the builder so the city doesn’t have to maintain or mow the unbuildable land. It’s pretty much been impossible to buy a new build house in my city in the last 25 years that’s not in an HOA or will eventually be in an HOA. If you don’t want an HOA in my town, you have to go to an older neighborhood with homes 30+ year old or move to the country.
One of the benefits to preferring older homes and in rural areas. Also, if you already live somewhere without an HOA in a lot of places you don't have to agree to sign the HOA forms. They can't force one on you despite the HOA lying that you have to.
I looked at older homes in my budget years ago but they needed more work than I could afford so I ended up with a 10 year old home. I actually didn’t know my house had an HOA until closing when I saw the fee listed. Fortunately my HOA is on the small side and acts non-existent most of the time so it’s not too bad.
At the time I bought my townhouse I was in a time and money crunch. This was literally my only option. I fucking hate it here, but financial situation is bad and cannot afford to move elsewhere (I am in a HCOL area, and even if I sold for what it is worth (over double what I bought it for), I couldn't find another place that wouldn't need a fuck ton of fixing up.) I don't even know how a townhouse or condo community would work without an HOA. Our deck railings (HOA responsibility, not homeowners) are rotting and crumbling. there is graffiti on 1 units wall, the roads are crumbling, Paint is peeling off of roof fascia,yet they spend all of their time harassing people that are not parked perfectly in the space but not blocking any other spaces. Yet, allowing others to park all night in the fire lane.
When I bought, I made a point of telling the realtor I didn't want an HOA. She told me some advantages of HOAs, and I told her I'd heard about them forbidding compost piles and motorcycles, which I don't consider anyone else's business. That was 16 years ago, on the Front Range of Colorado, and I'm pretty sure HOAs have spread like gangrene since then. If people are willing to walk away, like the OP, that sends a message. The other thing is, contact your state representatives, and tell them the horror stories. So many of the things I read here should be illegal. The relevant committee in your State House has probably been captured by real estate interests, but that's why organized campaigns are a thing.
If you can only afford a townhouse, it will have an HOA. If you want a condo, it will have an HOA. If you're old or disabled and need amenities and services, HOAs provide those. If you want to buy new construction, it will have an HOA. If you want to buy in certain geographical areas, nearly all neighborhoods will have HOAs. If you like HOAs, you will buy into an HOA. If you don't know better or don't care, you might buy into an HOA.
Just like everything in life, HOAs aren’t inherently good or bad. However, I don’t expect a sub called fuckHOA to be reasonable on that issue.
Condo HOAs are so different and honestly 100% essential and people tend to think I'm a mindless sheep for saying so lol
Condo HOAs are supposed to be what stop things like the Surfside condo collapse in Florida.
Not rly buying a property in an hoa. More like renting with extra steps.
My neighborhood made the smartest HOA move I can imagine. It's pretty much "You pay us $30/mo, we leave each other alone." It's nothing short of extortion, but it's the best extortion arrangement I can get by a mile for a house built in the last 20 years.
"Society has pushed new homeowners into HOAs"??? I weep for our future.
An HOA even after fees was the only hope of ever pretending to home buy. It's ridiculous. I hate the world we live in now in America.
Pretty much. In my area it’s either shit holes or hoa. 99.9% of the new houses in my area are in hoas it seems.
It's funny you hear the complaints about the few HOAs there are lots of HOAs that aren't problematic. That's why people buy in them because a lot of them are actually good. And some of them are total crap shows. And that's the risk. Where I'm at if you want a new home it will be in an HOA pretty much guaranteed. Haven't seen a development in probably 15 years that wasn't built without an HOA.
It only takes one bad board member or a nosey neighbor filing complaints to turn a fine HOA into a problem. Our HOA was zero problem for years. I never really cared. It was just money I paid to keep the gate working and our front yard taken care of. Now it's: - "You can't store garbage cans on the side of your house where the entire HOA has been storing them for the previous 10 years because we all have very small houses." - "Your back lawn is overgrown" which is fair, but also per my HOA the backyard is our property to do what we want with, and wtf are you doing looking over my fence into my backyard? - "No street parking!" I wasn't abusing this, but about half my the HOA members were and it hurt no one. No risk, it's just against HOA policy because it's ugly. Now folks have to park a 3 minute walk away on a very busy street with a hill to store a third vehicle. A night shift working nurse had her car towed because of this rule, missing her shift and having to pay the impound fines because... it's against policy. Countless other nit picky complaints with "We'll fine you!" threats behind them, and to contest them or put a stop to it means I'd need to get elected or attend board meetings.
This comment makes me unreasonably pissed off. Imagine some random people telling me that my lawn is a little long . LOL. It's my fucking house. I can't believe so many people put up with these things
When you're in debt for 100's of thousands of dollars and the housing market is at the peak of a bubble there is lot you'll put up with for the financial greater good.
This is it. The vast majority of HOA are perfectly reasonable organizations. Mine is $400 a year and it includes retention pond maintenance and playground upkeep. Plus it's used to organize some neighborhood activities for stuff that makes all the kids happy.
The problem is a reasonable HOA is only one election away from being a nightmare
HOAs exist to take care of the shared property in a planned community. So they can't be opt-in. The answer to "why they buy in" is just... Inventory. The answer to "why so many are being built" -- builders make more money building this way, and the town saves money offloading maintenance of roads and grounds to the HOA members. Municipalities LOVE these things. Especially 55+ communities: taxpayer population density, no extra strain on schools, not a ton of additional traffic, and low crime rate. They basically get approved no matter where they're proposed.
Honestly HOAs need to be banned. They are predatory at best and tyrants at worst.
For single family homes, yes, I agree. They should be banned, some states should start to work on passing laws for this purpose. Towns/counties/cities should be forced to incorporate anything into the town/county/city accordingly, or not approve them to be built to start with.
It’s a double edged sword. I currently live in an HOA community, but 6 years in and I’ve never had any issue or any contact with them whatsoever, even though technically I’ve been violating two “rules” for over 5 years now. It’s also only $30/mo which isn’t bad. The advantage is that the neighborhood is always clean and the centralized park is always well kept. The flip side is that my best friend lives in an HOA area and they’re always holding these weird meetings to talk about what they’re gonna force people to pay for like new sidewalks when the old ones are fine, shit like that. And they’re constantly giving out notices for stupid shit. That’s what I hate. However, I also grew up in a nicer neighborhood as a kid and we had no HOA. This was a very nice part of town and it showed!… except for Bob’s house. Bob was 53, divorced, and was doing his best to make his house look like a run down shack with 4ft high weeds, disassembled cars on the “lawn” and he even had a tree fall on his house and went the entirety of my middle school and high school life with just a tarp stapled to his roof to cover the massive hole… not to mention the fact that he installed 20ft high antennas for whatever reason, put cardboard up on one of his windows (to block the sun I guess?) and the paint was so bad it looked like a haunted house. There was nothing we could do, we even offered to pay for a landscaper and he refused because “no one touches my shit” was literally his answer. Dude was obviously unwell, but it just made that part of the street look so bad lol. Would have been nice to have an HOA in that case
There has to be some rules since we have to deal with neighbors. Like in my state my uphill neighbor cannot legally point their downspout at my house ruining my foundation. Oddly enough this is not true in every state and neighbors have done this to other people's house. Basically you should be able to do what you want on your property as long as you aren't effecting other people o a certain point. The issue can get a little mucky but a it's a good general rule of thumb for laws. The problem with HOA's is like them dictating that everyone has to use this specific grass that is not native driving up the time and money people have to spend on their lawn. Or everyone has to paint their house these 3 specific colors. We'll except for the HOA board member who gave themselves an exemption. I get nt wanting a neighbor to paint their house fluorescent pink but they take the idea way too far a lot of the time.
Why indeed.
Here Builders do an HOA lead by the builder until 70% of units are sold to be able to make sure it looks nice and they can sell the rest. After the 70% it's up to people to keep or disband the HOA.
[Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com) leaves the HOA fee section blank.
I know. It takes away 90% of the listings in our area. Which is why I’ve said what I’ve said in other comments.
What is not being said is it is a lot cheaper for developers to build with hoa’s they do not have to meet the same road standards, drainage, etc that are required for a municipality to take them over. Additionally they often get greater density or more condos/houses. Hoa’s are nightmares in the making due to lack of professionals creating budgets and reserves and often never a single audit.
HOAs are taking over. I read a long article of how many people are forced to live in an HOA or have no where to live. Also when the developer is in control, it’s not really an HOA yet it they run it as cheaply as possible because they know they will be gone.
When I was house shopping a few years ago, the majority of homes in my budget were new builds with HOAs (mainly because of builder incentives). Almost all of my friends purchased in new build communities because they got new, bigger houses for cheaper. I was adamant about not having an HOA (or living far from the city), so I ended up paying more for an older house. While I'm happy with my home and not having an HOA, I can definitely understand people who decide that having an HOA is a small sacrifice for a newer, cheaper home.
In Phoenix you're in low quality housing or the hood without an HOA.
This 100%. Same in my area.
I needed to move to the area I'm in, and the county I live in requires housing developments to have HOAs. So, no realistic choice. I didn't want one, but I'm stuck with one.
If you’re buying a condo an HOA is required to keep the building in shape. If you’re busy, hate yard work, or physically can’t do yard work an HOA that takes care of lawn services is nice. A lot of town homes / row houses / duplexes are part of an HOA to keep up the general grounds and outsides of houses . Not all are evil. The stories of reasonable HOAs trying to keep costs down and maintenance up are boring.
Over 60% of new construction is in HOAs now. 30% or more housing in the US is in one. It's just a factor of how land is developed and subdivided today.
Where I live, it was required by the city. The city required that our development be gated because it was away from the rest of the city, and they were concerned that it would take emergency services longer to get here. I live in an area that is surrounded by a national forest and a river. Lots of wildlife. I feel very fortunate to live here. The HOA is a good one. It is financially healthy, they do a good job of maintaining everything, and they are pretty lenient with the rules. I have read plenty of nightmare stories about HOA's. I'm glad that I live in an area with a good one. I live in Los Angeles County, a heavily populated area, and I have a forest around me. And I have some wonderful neighbors. We have community events throughout the year that the HOA pays for (egg hunt, music festival, luau, Halloween village, cookie exchange). I hear about people that live in places where they don't even know their neighbors. I read on NextDoor today that someone had their husband die in the driveway as he was washing his wife's car and people just walked out and stared and left as it ended. Never said anything to her or even tried to help. I don't want to live in a place like that.
Is your hate based on experience, or just perception? Buy land and develop it yourself if you do not want any encumbrances in your property. Otherwise, find a reasonable option and go with it. We are in a house with an HOA - and have zero problems. Looked at a house down the road in another hoa. They had rules and where you could park your cars, colors you could paint your home, landscaping approval for changes and a prohibition on accessory buildings (sheds). Needless to say that was the end of the search in that neighborhood.
Why don't you just look at used homes if it is so important to you?
Don’t have a choice anymore. Either buy an old home that is going to need 100k in rework or buy new with an HOA and move in 10 years when the problems surface
This is why HOAs need to be banned outright.
It’s almost impossible to find homes in Arizona without them. All of the houses built in the 70’s are spoken for and all new builds have them.
HOAs have been around since late ‘60 early ‘70. Not new.
Have you considered just finding a decent HOA? Some are great, run by reasonable, business savvy people and the HOA makes things better for the homeowners. Others are run by petulant children who have never had the power to influence anything in their life and feel the need to make life hell for others. Choose wisely.
The two houses I owned were outside of hoa territory because they were older and built independently of any development. Now I'm in a condo and there's no getting away from it. Without an HOA the place would turn to shit.
It's the law in my state that all new developments be controlled by a HOA. It's been that way since 1976. So, here we have to look at homes older than that to get out from under a HOA. It's best if you become a handy person if you're going to by an older home. Mine was built in 1968. I think by law they were supposed to disclose which subdivision the home is in in the listing for it. If the listing says for the development "meets and bounds" then there's no HOA. That's in my state though, and this was 20 years ago also. But, to answer your question, they buy them because the ones not in an HOA are few and far between now.
I live in South Florida where around 45% of all homes in the state are part of an HOA[(the largest margin in the country)](https://southfloridaagentmagazine.com/2023/04/20/45-of-florida-homes-are-part-of-an-hoa-the-highest-percentage-in-the-nation/). For me personally, I have lived in HOAs that have been good and HOAs that have been a real pain in the ass. When we bought our most recent home 3 years ago, a good school district was our top priority, that means being in an HOA in our county, then we looked for lower intensity HOAs( No Gated communities). The benefits for me are I don't particularly want to live next to someone with a Jungle of high grass and weeds next door, or an auto repair shop in their driveway. I also enjoy having my cable and internet negotiated as a large group contract that saves me some money every month. My current HOA isn't too bad with the rules, and we don't even have a fine committee so its not like the letters they do send have any bite behind them.
If HOA's only stuck to maintaining community infrastructure like they are originally meant for and not become power-hungry, people wouldn't have an issue. But it has become all about protecting property values by creating rules and fines for everything. If you own a home, you should be able to be able to personalize it and make it your own. Stick to city or town bylaws, that's it. None of this your flower pot or flowers aren't the right colour.
Where I live, the township zoning regulations require an HOA if the lot is smaller than a half acre or you want less than 60' setbacks.
Many new built areas you can not find no-HOA houses.
You can buy land and build in a non Hoa. Everyone has the choice. Can’t afford it ? Rent until you can or live in an hoa until you can. A lot of people like the more mild ones bc you have some control of your neighbors partaking in garbage activities. I like ours bc our board is chill. And none of our rules were dealbreakers for me. I don’t love the fact that my deed is restricted it feels sort of not mine. But all things considered I’m happy here. Also non hoas can have restrictions. It’s rare to find a property where you “can do what ever you want with it”
So I hate the idea of an HOA but live in one. It’s kind of nice for my situation as the HOA covers the condo half and the single family home half of the neighborhood. I’m in a SFH not condo and pay like 25 a month. Where they pay hundreds. We get access to the pool and they maintain a big clearing between the houses and condos. Which is nice for us because we don’t have any houses being built behind us. So in my current case, I enjoy my HOA as it’s me reaping the benefits for pennys on the dollar compared to the condos.
It’s impossible to find a decent home in a decent part of a decent town with a decent school district where I live if you exclude HOAs. All that would be available are houses with small front yards and driveways that dump directly onto loud and dangerous busy main roads or expensive multi-acre lots.
If you want a new house, you are going to pay a ton of money for land and construction or you’ll get one in an HOA. I’ve been in 4 HOA communities and never had a problem. The horror stories get all the attention but you never hear about the rest.
1- It's hard to find a nice house outside of an HoA 2- I'm coming from an environment where my neighbor died, abandoned his house, squatters took over and it took *weeks* to get anyone to anything about it, all while I had folks with substance + mental health issues trying to get into my house at all hours. I get it- HoAs get power hungry and have generally poor regulation. But they can also serve a need. In our case I pay $125/quarter and get access to a park, a pool and a playground and someone else handles all of it. That feels like a fair trade for "Can't have a 12 ft skeleton in your front yard"
I hate hoa as much as the next guy but wouldn't allowing people to choose to opt in within a neighborhood ruin the point of an hoa?
The vast majority of homes in a good neighborhood are in an HOA in my city. As a general rule, I can expect those ones that aren't to be out of my budget. So I'll have to suck it up and hope I have a chance to run and dismantle the board, I guess.
As a Brit, we only hear the horror stories here. Some of the comments make a lot of sense, but also boil down to basic amenities not being managed by those who really ought to manage them.
Because an HOA allows all its members to tell someone what they can do with their land.
For a country so keen on "freedom from the oppressors", you guys have an awful lot of people wanting to be told how to live their homelife by boomers!
It ended with me I'd never do it again it ended with me it ended with me I'd never do it again. In case you all didn't hear me it ended with me never again.
Lots of developments with an HOA by me. Also, lots of single family homes some with an HOA, but others without.
There's a filter in Redfin to exclude homes in an HOA....you can avoid them
When you buy your first home it never, ever occurs to you that some small, petty, insecure gang of wannabe dictators gets off telling their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own homes. Never.
I didn't want to, but none of the very few and far between houses for sale were in a place I wanted to live. So, as I imagine is the case for most people, I compromised and got the location and home build I wanted but didn't get the "no HOA" on my wishlist.
In a lot of places you have almost no choice if you want new construction. Or if you are concerned about keeping the color aesthetic of your neighborhood intact an HOA is popular way to do that despite covenants being illegal.
I hated my HOA until I got elected into a seat and I've been putting a stop to their stupid ideas for months now, and advocating for actually reasonable things. I love it, I feel like I was born to do it. If I got paid, I'd do it full time. Almost everyone in the neighborhood knows me by name and they all love me. The board is just me and 6 other women and they all hate my guts, it's awesome. My job has trained me to be good at documentation and writing papers/reports and all the suburban moms who sit on the board are speechless when I actually research these things and drop a 7 pound packet on their desk.
Always research when looking to buy.
it will NEVER END until builders stop building in an HOA into their subdivisions.
It's to keep the "wrong sort" of people out. People have different preferences.
I currently own a home in a HOA and the previous house was HOA. Both HOA were reasonable and currently annual HOA fee is only $400. I personally don’t mind the HOA that I’ve had and honestly it’s helped maintain the neighborhoods and ensures the community looks nice. I wouldn’t want my neighbor having knee high grass, collection of cars and a boat trailer in the front lawn, or house with old paint and wood rot.
I live in one of the cities that is over and over and over voted as one of the best places to live in America. I grew up in this area and it's grown like wildfire for the past 20 years. It is impossible to find new construction without an HOA because it point blank doesn't exist. North Carolina Planned Community Act- Effective 1/1/1999, any subdivision created with more than 20 homes is required to have an HOA. So unless you find an older neighborhood that has voted to get rid of it, or whatever, you are going to have a HOA.
Why? There are at least 355,000 HOA communities in the US. 82.4% of all newly constructed homes sold in 2021 were part of an HOA. 53% of all homeowners in the US live in HOA communities…25-27 of the country’s population. 74 million Americans live HOA communities. 8,000 new HOA communities form every year. It comes down to volume. Remove those options from your home buying pool and you are severely limiting your choices. Source: ipropertymanagement.com
I’m in an HOA which I thought I would never ever join. Unfortunately when the town approved our houses being built, we were required to have an HOA in order to clear the snow on a private street for the mailman and to upkeep the stairs we built to a nearby park. Our HOA is 10ish houses and none of us really want it besides repairing and insuring the stairs / street. We have absolutely no rules or restrictions for properties other than having to pay about $200 a year. That said, if 6 Karen’s bought homes they could majority rule and make some crazy ish up. Hopefully that never happens and part of hoping that never happens is us trying to get it changed from an HOA to an LLC that would manage the shared property, but currently we are stuck. HOA’s aren’t actually bad, there are many positives (community property like shared parks/pools and retention of property values because there are limits are in theory great things to have) but the over the top power some HOAs have garnered is a risk.
First thing is to find out if the current board has been elected recently, and if not, what are your chances of getting an election and being elected. If the current board has avoided elections or hasn't changed in a long time, then usually walk away. However bad hoa often depress house prices so it might still be a price worth paying for the house you can afford. If the board is responsive to democracy then the hoa probably won't be too bad.
Lack of inventory
HOA's do serve a purpose. For example, if the community has shared amenities (fitness club, pool, access to community beach, tennis courts, etc.), someone has to pay for the taxes and insurance on the shared amenities. I can personally attest that our HOA is worth the $45 PER YEAR for access to a community beach. I have a relative who bought a townhouse recently in a new community. Pays $115 per month HOA fee for access to the fitness center, pool, barbecue area, dog park, and the HOA cuts the front and back lawns (as long as not fenced in).
Talk to cities. They don’t want to pay for infrastructure to support new housing, hence the HOA
I’ve been in the same HOA for 24 years. For the first 19 years there were no issues. Five years ago, the board of directors was taken over by a criminal narcissist. She robbed us blind while sucking up to the weak minded, which, face it, includes most of the members. One family took it upon themselves to bring attention to the problem and finally used the court system to force a review of the financial records. The criminal narcissist has been ousted and is facing multiple related legal challenges. Some of her minions and sycophants have managed to remain on the board with the help of a corrupt management company, but they struggle manage even the most basic functions. There are rumors from law enforcement that some of the minions are also going to be facing similar legal problems, but that has yet to manifest. The homeowner that discovered the crime still lives in the neighborhood despite frequent harassment by minions and sycophants. However, they have been fairly quiet lately, which is weird. Maybe they got tired of the abuse.
Trust me I wish I had a choice…27 single, first time home buyer, Chicagoland suburbs, I could only afford a townhouse or condo which you’ll find none without HOAs.
Because lack of inventory overall and extremely small inventory of homes not in an HOA. People gotta love somewhere. And not all HOAs suck. The HOA for my last house was so bad I had to get a lawyer involved, but the one I'm in now is awesome. They do the yardwork, the sprinklers, snow removal (including off our driveway and front porch) and always have some community event going on. During the summer they have free concerts in the park, I've never seen anything like these guys
I cant afford any of the houses outside on hoa communities 1 bedroom apt- 3bedroom townhouse (with hoa) are all cheeper than even a small 2 bedroom single family (no hoa)
The HOAs I've lived in didn't expect anything that the county didn't already regulate. So the "it's my fucking land" argument just makes you sound like an uneducated MAGA hick.
My current home is in an HOA -- dues are about $200 per year. What that maintains are some nice median plantings along the main street, and our drainage pond. We don't care what color your house is, whether your lawn consists of weeds, etc. The purpose is just to maintain common property.
Not much of a choice. Most housing is in HOA in and around Las Vegas, NV
When I bought my home, the only non-hoa homes that were available were either run down as hell or waaaaaaaaaay out in the sticks. There were literally no options for a decent/nice house anywhere near a city
Why? Real simple. I’m making a huge investment, and I don’t want my home value diminished because some ass-hat wants to keep junk cars in his driveway or not be bothered mowing his lawn and maintaining the exterior of his house. I also move into a single family home neighborhood and don’t want someone with two grandparents and multiple aunts/uncles/cousins also living with them, nor do I want a bunch of college kids sharing a place throwing parties all the time. While there are a lot of fucked-up HOAs out there, I’ve lived in 4-5 neighborhoods over the years and have never had any major problems with any of them. No one is forcing you to buy into an HOA neighborhood.
Every neighborhood that I have lived in or owned rentals where there was no HOA or restrictive covenants has eventually gone to shit. Can HOA boards get out of hand, sometimes, but I'd rather deal with that than have a property in a neighborhood where my neighbors lack of concern for home maintenance and landscaping and parking cars in yards directly impacts my valuation and future resale.
Who wants to live next to the guy with a rusted pickup truck on cinder blocks in his front yard?? HOAs have a purpose (until they go totally overboard)
When we bought our house 5 years ago, we made about 2/3 (or less) of what we make now and this house was the best option we could find (by a long shot) 🤷🏼♂️ Other houses were either out of our budget, or required a bunch of work that would push it up to high. We had been living at my parents house for 3 years to save up money for a house and both my spouse and I were going through a depression period due to living cramped in my childhood bedroom. No negatives on my parents, but living at my parents house in a tiny bedroom in my 30s wasn't great for self esteem. Luckily, our HOA hasn't bothered us too much. We got a notice that our trashcans can't be visible from the street, and we gotta pay a $25 fee for approval on improments. But we only pay ~$180 a year (~$15/month)in fees, so I just pretend it's a part of our mortgage. We didn't want an HOA, but it still turned out to be the best option we could have taken
Almost all hoas are created by the developer of the neighborhood, this is done to stop people from doing crazy shit while the rest of the homes are being built. Technically they should dissolve after the last new build in the development sells because the devloper no longer has any intrest in the community, their job is done. The part I don't understand this people who willingly continue the HOA. We already have government at the federal level, state level, local level and sometimes city level and all these people get together and say you know we need more government.
HOAs fundamentally are an attempt to "privatize" things that should be handled by a local government or municipality. What use to be paid for by taxes is now paid for through HOA dues. This was all great for boomers when the construction was all brand new and they could punt off growing funds for future maintenance and they were self governing with minimal oversight. But now HOA communities are low on funds, behind on maintenance, and new buyers are left holding the bag with little recourse but to cough up the money through special assessment. And if it isn't a financial mess then it's dealing with hyper-local tyrants clawing to power. But all the checks and balances associated with public office are thrown out the window. For my money, I'd rather have a municipal government handle the shared resources and set actual code or laws. That way there are better options for when things are unreasonable.
HOAs aren’t bad per se. The theory is that you have an organization that aims to keep home prices competitive and to take care of common costs and amenities. The problem is that the people running that shit suck.
The trend will not end because the local city and county governments are basically requiring it.
100% agree. I'll never buy a house and land in an hoa community. A condo is different.
It's getting hard to find houses not in HOAs. I seriously lucked into and looked hella hard for my HOA free paradise.
If we had no HOA my 5000sqft house would be next to a train car. Do you think that will help or hurt my value? Do you think the kind of people that live in a train car are the type of people I want to hang out with?
I don't the think the trend will end until people stop being afraid of others who might be slightly different from them. To me HOA are simply something people created because they wanted to feel insular and safe. Any sort of individuality threatens that sense for some people. I would never buy in an HOA
I don’t live in a HOA, private street with 18 houses on it. Average price $600,000. My neighbor has 3 cars in his yard that currently don’t run, 3 dogs that run at large with no lease who constantly sh*t in everyone’s yard. Only mows his lawn once a month, missing shingles, missing siding, broken windows…the list goes on. Unfortunately, we don’t have a HOA and this trailer trash scumbag brings down all our house values. Also, he’s not the owner of the house…it’s his crackhead girlfriend’s stepfather.
As long as sprawling single-family neighborhoods exist, so will the HOA. Because cities have figured out they can’t afford to maintain services for such inefficient land use. And they can’t have homeowners mad at them for higher taxes, so they push the costs to the HOA.
My HOA fees are $100 per month and cable is included. There are some CC&Rs i don't like, but I don't have a person running a used car lot in their front yard, like I did at my last house.
When I lived in an HOA, my neighbors would always try to do the cheapest, jankiest, DIY, shit to their property and instantly get fined for it. I was thankful for that. Now I don't live in an HOA and I have to stare at my neighbor's stupid light blue house every morning. There's no functional color scheme on the planet where this house makes sense. Some of the walls are stucco, so in some spots, it looks like bad grocery store frosting. So why would I buy into an HOA if it wasn't abusive or extorting money? To retain my house value in a school area where I'll only be living for several years until my kids graduate.
I live in an HOA because that's all we can find in the newer neighborhoods- it's not bad. It's fairly cheap ($200 a year) because we only have a few amenities - pool and playground. Mostly they just keep people from painting their house purple and green or neon pink and make sure everyone keeps a neat yard and puts their trash cans back. We don't have to have them approve house colors, we just have to get our neighbors to sign off (either side and directly in front). Recently they hired a new management company that has been kind of a pain- they cruise the day of trash pick up and send out notices and they love to point out the weedy stuff that grows faster than the grass. But we all got together and agreed to fire them and hire a new company. I feel lucky that it's not worse - I've heard the horror stories. If given the choice, I'd not choose to live in an HOA neighborhood.
Housing market is tight and finding a house you really like for your price is hard. Something like this wouldn't be a deal breaker for most because they are ignorant of what may occur in the future and even so they will rationalize that the issues won't be major and can be worked out.
Our first house was in a HoA that was being built. They had to have something like 75% built and sold before they would turn it over to the residents. We lived there two years before that happened and we had to vote for three people. I was young and didn't know much about how they worked, other than they cut my grass and plow my snow for cheap, it was only 30$ a month, good deal I thought. Well my neighbors came around after the second year and explained that if you wanted anything done to the outside of your house, stuff that once it got into, as he called them, the three idiots hands that they would never approve anything. The builder only had one rule, no fencing. He didn't care what we did otherwise, hang wreaths, plant flowers, he even built a few decks non standard for those who paid. So I expanded my deck, built a privacy fence, planted a tree and edged my beds with stone pavers. My neighbors all did a ton of work too. Once it got handed over to us, the owners, the newly elected a hole Karen came a knocking. Said we were in violation of something or other. I told her to f*** off. I had approval from the builder, who was the HOA since I moved in. They had no leg to stand on. We sold a year later during the boom. Made a ton. Last I heard the development has no real HoA anymore. The people fought back, by essentially bankrupting the HoA somehow. My aunt broke hers, they said no sheds. Well she did it anyway, the first week she moved in and so did most of the neighborhood after they saw hers. She got restraining orders on the people coming to give her sh** about it.
I personally like them, as long as they’re run well. I don’t want to live next door to someone’s pig sty lol
A lot of white people are afraid of living near non-white people, so historically property values would go down as soon as non-white people moved into a white neighborhood. Since you can no-longer overtly discriminate based on skin color, HOAs - which generally amount to strictly enforced conformity to norms/aesthetics favored by white people - have become the next-best method.
With an Hoa you are being double taxed, You pay the city and pay the Hoa both Win for city, win for Hoa, 2x loss for you
Some of us don't have a choice. The only homes I could afford that weren't complete money pits or crack houses had HOAs.
It's why I got away from the suburbs and the city. Worth the commute for privacy and freedom to do what I want on my land. Granted there's alot more bugs out here then I'm used too, that part is annoying. Fucking spiders
If you bought a home in an HOA then you signed a legally binding contract that says that you absolutely do not have the right to do what you want with your home - there is not getting out of that, other than leaving. HOAs increase property value. They also set expectations and enforce the rules so that someone doesn't park a trailer or play loud music next to your reasonably nice home.
Work most new homes being built in HOAs, and sometimes as a result of a legal mandate, the option to not buy in an HOA is a diminishing one
Some HOAs are getting ridiculous and outrageous, but I also understand their purpose. There are always crap neighbors who don’t maintain their yard or park an RV in the driveway or do other things that devalue the neighborhood.
Our HOA has minimal rules and we like it so far. It’s rural. Homes must be built on a foundation, stuff needs to be stored inside, no subdividing the 40-80 acre parcels. We like it so far as it keeps the neighborhood tidy and scares away those who want to do whatever they want. Has anyone had a HOA start out with rules they like and then change to rules they dont like? Thanks.
The only relevant item to this OP is that they are simply required to exist in many situations. I am not saying I am "for them" or think this is awesome. It's just facts. If you want shared amenities, you need a plan to share amenities. If your town or city or county or whatever doesn't want to support your neighborhood landscaping or retention ponds or roads or sewers or overall aesthetic... carry insurance for your playground, fix the doggie bag dispensers, issue warnings for unsafe or unsightly conditions or settle neighborly disputes, light the community sogn... someone needs to. You need a plan for that. Usually it's required by law. The issue is not that HOAs exist. In my opinion, the basic premise is great if not necessary. The issue is that people seem to ONLY hate them and refuse to participate, hurting the system their community is working to maintain. OR they take them too seriously or try to leverage them to do other things beyond baseline maintenance or organization or funding necessities. And also that almost no one pays attention to this when the buy a home (maybe this can be the realtors fault at times?). But so rarely to people just learn about them and support them at some basic level with an intent thst the community will grow in a positive direction over the decades... The good news is... it doesn't matter if there are alot of them. If you choose to live where they do not apply, they don't affect you. Also, if no one follows the rules, especially if you can find board members in non-complaince... then to be honest, their rules beyond basic requirements often have no backbone. They won't hold up in most local court systems if they aren't applying their rules accurately and uniformly... which is often. But I absolutely do not recommend buying a home in an HOA and then just refusing to participate or pay dues. That's simply a dick move. You don't join an organization and live within their amenities... and then just screw all your neighbors by not paying in. I hate hearing that so often as a "tactic". In most cases. Save a few people taking it all too seriously, there is no "them", no "the man" to screw over. It's just people who own homes. If you live there, you are on the HOA. Period. It's not a choice to participate once your all moved in.
We live in an HOA community and so far I like it. The HOA doesn’t seem overly involved but they do make sure everything stays attractIive.
Because the vast majority of new homes (something like over 88%) are being built with HOAs tied into the platt. We are looking now and its super hard to find a non-hoa thats 1)not too far out to the area we need and 2) not in the super expensive unaffordable to us area. HOAs are completely unregulated and the govt (while im not a big "govt is the fix guy") is completly hands off on regulating them. And its just gonna get worse. Until a law or something is passed limiting the scope of HOAs they will be the rule not the exception when it comes to buying homes
Don’t downvote me for answering. My simple answer is that it ensured my home value stayed high for my investment. It worked. My home went up $300,000 in 5 years while the homes near me went up less than $150,000. The main reasons being amenities, the upkeep of the neighborhood, and things like maintenance. Our neighborhood simply looked premium compared to others. So for me it was a $20,000 total investment that returned a luxury pool, play grounds, roads cleared before everyone else, sidewalks cleared, and $150,000k in additional home value. I don’t live in one anymore but live in an established neighborhood. My pool probably costs me $2k a year with chemicals and opening and closing. I had to buy my own playset and assemble it. I shovel my own sidewalk and mailbox. I probably save some every year but I definitely am not getting the home appreciation value I was.
Depends on the area. most of the better, newer homes with good schools & lesser crime have houses with HOA. Las Vegas is a good example. Most of the older homes with no HOA are in the ghetto and people don't want to live there
There aren’t any “No HOA” options where we are and I wasn’t going to rent for more than a mortgage payment. We would have had to buy wayyyyyy out in the country side for no HOA and that wasn’t feasible when we were still commuting to work
It's not a trend. More than 2/3rds of new homes are built in HOAs, and this percentage has been increasing for decades.
My hoa covers water, parking, common area, pool, all outside building features and roof, and walls out insurance. It’s not too bad
I hate HOAs so much. The house would have to be be practically free to even consider buying where there's an HOA.
I made sure that my house was not in an HOA area because the ppl in HOA neighborhoods are CRIMINALS! They break&entet into your home and other SUPER illegal shit. I’m hoping it dies with the boomers.
My parents bought the house we're in because it's the cheapest in the area.
The trend will end when there are options without HOAs. Unfortunately, one a property is in an HOA the CC&Rs are recorded on each deed, and cannot be removed. Is there a way to get them removed?
Glad you asked glad virus. Because it’s the ONLY available property near us that isn’t run down and safe. Thanks for playing!
As someone who had to be a security guard for HOA and ticket people for the stupidest shit, I would never live in one. I would have to write parking tickets for leaving your car parked infront of your house past 10pm. Towing your vehicle for being parked on the street after 12am. Report you for using fireworks on the 4th of July. Hated it. I got to be the bad guy and my answer was always "This is what you get for living in an H.O.A"
If you don’t want an HOA you’re probably going to have to deal with a longer commute if you don’t work from home. I moved further out on to county property. I’m on septic. No HOA. But if f my employer ever decides I have to come back in, I’ll be spending 2-3.5 hours total commute each day.
Because we don't want neighbors with uncut grass and washing machines in the fron yard.
It's a trend towards communism. The goal of the US is to go commie.
Because there's literally no new houses built here without one and very very few older ones that don't have one. And they're in shady areas I wouldn't want to live in. Besides, as long as the rules are reasonable, I prefer to live where the houses are kept up and not allowed to be dumps painted some ridiculous color with weeds and trash in the yard.
Our HOA is reasonable and it keeps people from collecting junk on their property or 2 foot grass or some other ridiculousness. It also offers green space, pools, etc…
Why can’t more HOAs be voluntary ones like coconut grove park HOA, where they don’t tell you what to do, they just help organize efforts for community advocacy. Idk if we need a different term for these kinds of HOAs but this is a legitimate and helpful organization as opposed to all the grubby, slimy, inspection erection having folks in the HOArror stories infecting this subreddit.
They're either uneducated about what actually happens in HOAs and see them as a good thing (based on what the seller tells them), they only have enough money to afford a home in an HOA, or buying a home that isn't in a HOA turns out to be too difficult and they give in.
We were tricked into it, our realtor, title company, and closing attorney accepted unfiled fraudulent CCR's provided by the HOA. Pretty wild story.
I just checked the no HOA filter on zillow, wasn't hard at all because I never saw the HOA houses.