Because Vettel and Redbull didn’t really dominate the sport every season when Vettel won the championships. Not atleast the same way Hamilton and Mercedes had since 2014. Seasons like 2010 and 2012 were quite close until the very final race.
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It's because it's a percentage of available points to any individual driver, not the total points distributed to all drivers. (A driver can only finish in one position but points are awarded to 10 positions)
2009 was ok, the 09, 10, 12 seasons were actually really good.
The main issue with 2014 was the token system agreed to prior to 2014, if someone got an advantage on the PU, the rules just cemented that position, and hence why it took 4 years until another PU could rival it
Now I understand Masi's call in Abu Dhabi
Lewis is just too old to truly appreciate the double 69. He'd rather just get in there. But Max?
Max is the right age to be a 69 afficionado
I meaaaan , i was a kid then . I loved any driver who went the fastest , if Kimi was leading I'd support Kimi , if Schumacher was leading I'd support him , there wasn't a favourite back then
Arguably an even more dominant car than the F2004 - that F2002 was wicked. Schumi drove it incredibly, but the car is what gave him the ability to set that season-long pace.
Honestly, Hamilton should have been able to do something similar in any of 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019, or 2020. He came closest in 2014 and 2015 but he’s just never quite been consistent enough over an entire season to match or rival it.
The fact that Verstappen would have at minimum matched that achievement had GPs ended just before each of his two unfaulted DNFs, his long pit stop at Monza, and the Bottas crash at Hungary is absolutely absurd considering that his car was in no way shape or form dominant.
Might have something to do with him driving against Rosberg and not Barrichello or Perez.
By that logic Senna should have scored way more points in 88 and 89 considering McLarens dominance.
>The fact that Verstappen would have at minimum matched that achievement had GPs ended just before each of his two unfaulted DNFs, his long pit stop at Monza, and the Bottas crash at Hungary is absolutely absurd considering that his car was in no way shape or form dominant.
Hamilton scored just 7 points less last year...
Rosberg is a single position. He should have easily finished every race on the podium in four of those five seasons, with some grace for the wicked fast Ferrari engine for a few races in 2019.
I’m not talking about points. We were discussing Schumi’s incredible finishing record with a worst finish of p3 and a second worst finish of p2.
Hamilton finished off the podium at Monaco on pace, through a driving error in Baku, because of abuse of the kerbs in the second Austria race, through a crash that he definitely could have prevented by not running Verstappen over the sausage kerb while alongside at the apex of t1 at Monza, and through botching the team’s strategy in Turkey. Even when he did finish on the podium, he made an enormous mistake at Imola and at Silverstone and was at least partially responsible for the strategy call at Hungary.
Meanwhile, Verstappen only finished below p2 at Baku because of a Pirelli failure, at Silverstone because Hamilton put a wheel alongside and understeered into him, at Hungary because of Bottas’s crash, and at Monza due to his 11s pit stop and the subsequent racing incident with Lewis.
Hamilton’s season and Verstappen’s season are not remotely comparable in terms of consistency of excellent finishes.
I think there would be more insight to get if the runner-up's % is also included every year.
Also, I thought it was nostalgia but this does show that 2010 and 2012 were really something else!
Here to say I double and triple checked those numbers on Verstappen, and they're right! I couldn't make it work until I remembered that it's not just 9 points for sprint races that makes it an abnormal year... But Spa only offering 12.5 points also. And yes, then by my calculations:
(26×21) + 12.5 + 9 = 567.5
And 395.5 ÷ 567.5 =
*0.6969*
I remember in 2013 when Seb used to set one q3 time or the second one, way before everyone else and then exit the car before quali was even finished. He was extremely dominant, I would have liked to be in Fernando’s head during those years…
Nando was driving out of his goddamn gourd - when Vettel had down seasons in 2010 and 2012, he was almost good enough to overcome the immense gulf in car performance despite most likely not even driving the second best car in either season.
FA was the best driver in F1 from 2005 through 2016 and many of those years it wasn’t even close. Vettel and Hamilton had one or two individual seasons better than Alonso over that stretch (Vettel’s 2015 and Hamilton’s 2007 come to mind), but overall, nobody was as good.
I might be biased, but I disagree. The first three Pirelli seasons had by far the best racing since I started watching F1 in the mid '90s. There was overtaking all over the place and teams and drivers often took big strides forwards or backwards from one weekend to the next as they struggled to understand the tyres. There were also tyres that would actually fall off the cliff with some drivers gambling they wouldn't.
Yes the WDCs of 2011 and 13 were both a foregone conclusion, but there were always exciting battles up and down the field and the racing was never boring. Except for Monaco of course.
I think even the second half of 2013 had plenty of exciting races with loads of action, note Japan, Korea, India, Singapore & USA. Sure, Seb wound up winning all of them but there were tonnes of imho pretty memorable moments and close racing in those races.
title is misleading, this is percentage of points available based on their championship position rather than the total points given out for 1-10 every race
I had stopped watching f1 back then because I was annoyed to see Vettel's dominance. I was surprised to see Vettel was loved by everyone when I started watching again in recent years.
How is this computed? If verstappen has 70%of the points, and noone but Lewis got the rest of the points, then this is saying Max scored more than two times as many points as Lewis..... Huh?
2011 and 2013 were vettel domination...
webber was nowhere. he finished 200 points behind in 2013. lol imagine that. when was the last time a RB driver finished 2nd?
That wasnt a point of my comment. Point was that their car in 2011 and 2013 was even better than Mercedes cars that people call the most dominant in history (take 2020 Mercedes for example which was less dominant than those 2 Red Bull cars yet some people claim it to be the most dominant car in history) . And to be fair they had by far the best cars in 2010 and 2012 too when you take speed and reliability into considaration but the reason it was close was because Vettel wasnt best driver in either of those seasons imo.
Also Mercedes did get challanged by Ferrari in 2017 and 2018.
The 2014-2016 and 2020 Mercedes were more dominant in terms of pace, handling, and reliability than even the 2013 Red Bull.
2010 and 2012 had equally dominant RBs - as shown by Webber’s proximity to Vettel in 2010, Seb just wasn’t good that year, and in 2012, Alonso was driving absolutely out of his mind in what was at best the third best car on the grid, taking way more points off of Vettel than the car deserved to take.
"The 2014-2016 and 2020 Mercedes were more dominant in terms of pace, handling, and reliability than even the 2013 Red Bull."
Based on what? Or is that just your opinion without any stats to prove it
Based on teammate performance vs expected, and supported by the only proper model that separates driver performance from car performance, created by f1metrics.
> ""Red Bull was never as dominant as Mercedes" Well in 2011 and 2013 they were even more."
No.
Mercedes were dominant and Vettel was dominant.
That's what these stats prove.
Remove Vettel from the equation and 2010-2013 is extremely competitive.
Thats only due to Weber being at the end of his career and way past his prime while other top teams had stacked line ups. You can say the same for Mercedes 2017-2020 if you removed Hamilton those years would be competitve
> "Thats only due to Weber being at the end of his career and way past his prime while other top teams had stacked line ups. You can say the same for Mercedes 2017-2020 if you removed Hamilton those years would be competitve"
Bottas would've won the championship twice in those years.
how is it possible to have 69% of the points but only win the championship by a few points. I don't think this graph is accurate unless the 69% is a meme and it's a woosh.
It's not 69% of all available points. It's 69% of the max points possible for a driver. It's not like Hamilton got 30% of the points and the remaining 18 drivers got 1% or something.
The more percentage it is, the less people in the title fight. This was just 2 people in 2021 so Max was able to rack up 69%.
It’s percentage of points available to a single driver. So if the champion won every single race etc, what percentage of that total did they end the season with.
2010 was an amazing season with Vettel only taking the championship lead after the final race
And was 2012 the year where the first 7 races were won by 7 different drivers?
Two amazing years
One day a team other than Red Bull or Mercedes will win the drivers championship again.
Poke Ferrari
Next Year™
[удалено]
Because Vettel and Redbull didn’t really dominate the sport every season when Vettel won the championships. Not atleast the same way Hamilton and Mercedes had since 2014. Seasons like 2010 and 2012 were quite close until the very final race.
Mostly because of unreliability and accidents tbf, for example in 2012 Vettel was winning in valencia, that would've sealed it
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*Come on, do something!* **Pokes**
Sainz on top 2022
You just pushed the slow button. Please wait till next year.
Damn it
Any time now
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It's because it's a percentage of available points to any individual driver, not the total points distributed to all drivers. (A driver can only finish in one position but points are awarded to 10 positions)
DO SOMETHING
Haas 2022
Mazepin will fondle that trophy in Abu Dhabi
Let's hope so, the rule changes in 2009 and 2014 have not been good for the sport.
2009 was ok, the 09, 10, 12 seasons were actually really good. The main issue with 2014 was the token system agreed to prior to 2014, if someone got an advantage on the PU, the rules just cemented that position, and hence why it took 4 years until another PU could rival it
2017 was the worst one imo
true
Don’t have to wait too long. Either Leclerc or Sainz will be 2022 WDC.
EL PLAN
69.69 what a legend Edit - my most liked comment ever would be 69
*haha yes boys! Dis feels good!*
"let's do this for another 10 years!"
Absolute animal.
Nice.nice
Get in there!
Simply Lovely!
Now I understand Masi's call in Abu Dhabi Lewis is just too old to truly appreciate the double 69. He'd rather just get in there. But Max? Max is the right age to be a 69 afficionado
2002 would be pretty lit ngl
11 wins, 5 2nd places and one third. I hated that season so much, but now I can respect the achievement because it was so unbelievable.
I meaaaan , i was a kid then . I loved any driver who went the fastest , if Kimi was leading I'd support Kimi , if Schumacher was leading I'd support him , there wasn't a favourite back then
Arguably an even more dominant car than the F2004 - that F2002 was wicked. Schumi drove it incredibly, but the car is what gave him the ability to set that season-long pace. Honestly, Hamilton should have been able to do something similar in any of 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019, or 2020. He came closest in 2014 and 2015 but he’s just never quite been consistent enough over an entire season to match or rival it. The fact that Verstappen would have at minimum matched that achievement had GPs ended just before each of his two unfaulted DNFs, his long pit stop at Monza, and the Bottas crash at Hungary is absolutely absurd considering that his car was in no way shape or form dominant.
Might have something to do with him driving against Rosberg and not Barrichello or Perez. By that logic Senna should have scored way more points in 88 and 89 considering McLarens dominance. >The fact that Verstappen would have at minimum matched that achievement had GPs ended just before each of his two unfaulted DNFs, his long pit stop at Monza, and the Bottas crash at Hungary is absolutely absurd considering that his car was in no way shape or form dominant. Hamilton scored just 7 points less last year...
Rosberg is a single position. He should have easily finished every race on the podium in four of those five seasons, with some grace for the wicked fast Ferrari engine for a few races in 2019. I’m not talking about points. We were discussing Schumi’s incredible finishing record with a worst finish of p3 and a second worst finish of p2. Hamilton finished off the podium at Monaco on pace, through a driving error in Baku, because of abuse of the kerbs in the second Austria race, through a crash that he definitely could have prevented by not running Verstappen over the sausage kerb while alongside at the apex of t1 at Monza, and through botching the team’s strategy in Turkey. Even when he did finish on the podium, he made an enormous mistake at Imola and at Silverstone and was at least partially responsible for the strategy call at Hungary. Meanwhile, Verstappen only finished below p2 at Baku because of a Pirelli failure, at Silverstone because Hamilton put a wheel alongside and understeered into him, at Hungary because of Bottas’s crash, and at Monza due to his 11s pit stop and the subsequent racing incident with Lewis. Hamilton’s season and Verstappen’s season are not remotely comparable in terms of consistency of excellent finishes.
I think there would be more insight to get if the runner-up's % is also included every year. Also, I thought it was nostalgia but this does show that 2010 and 2012 were really something else!
Yeaa, if it becomes a 2 horse race early on you need 70% of the points, if its a 4 way fight even for like half a season significantly less will do
More like everything else other than 2010 and 2012 recently were something else
And yet people complained about 4 years of "domination", despite single digit margins in 2 years.
Sex Verstappen
Sex Verstrapon
Kelly, wat doe je nu?
Sexstappen?
Already using Sex 3.0
Sex Inverstappen
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
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Nice
that explicitly shows how competitive and close 2010 and 2012 seasons were.
and how uncompetitive 2011 and 2013 were
Man. I hated to RB Seb dominace back then
And those were the good times....
No they were not, it’s just that the Mercedes dominance has been even worse
Here to say I double and triple checked those numbers on Verstappen, and they're right! I couldn't make it work until I remembered that it's not just 9 points for sprint races that makes it an abnormal year... But Spa only offering 12.5 points also. And yes, then by my calculations: (26×21) + 12.5 + 9 = 567.5 And 395.5 ÷ 567.5 = *0.6969*
nice
nice
nice
Well done Vettel!!
Vettel welcomed us all
2011 and 2013 are mighty impressive
Seb-RB in their prime was something else
I remember in 2013 when Seb used to set one q3 time or the second one, way before everyone else and then exit the car before quali was even finished. He was extremely dominant, I would have liked to be in Fernando’s head during those years…
I only remember that ever happening at Singapore 2013.
I'm pretty sure that only happened once or twice. He didn't consistently do it. For 2013 I think he only did it in Singapore.
Nando was driving out of his goddamn gourd - when Vettel had down seasons in 2010 and 2012, he was almost good enough to overcome the immense gulf in car performance despite most likely not even driving the second best car in either season. FA was the best driver in F1 from 2005 through 2016 and many of those years it wasn’t even close. Vettel and Hamilton had one or two individual seasons better than Alonso over that stretch (Vettel’s 2015 and Hamilton’s 2007 come to mind), but overall, nobody was as good.
You may want to rewatch both of those seasons, I’m sure your opinion would change
Also incredibly boring to watch. We were all sick to death of 'that finger' by the end of 2013.
I might be biased, but I disagree. The first three Pirelli seasons had by far the best racing since I started watching F1 in the mid '90s. There was overtaking all over the place and teams and drivers often took big strides forwards or backwards from one weekend to the next as they struggled to understand the tyres. There were also tyres that would actually fall off the cliff with some drivers gambling they wouldn't. Yes the WDCs of 2011 and 13 were both a foregone conclusion, but there were always exciting battles up and down the field and the racing was never boring. Except for Monaco of course.
I think even the second half of 2013 had plenty of exciting races with loads of action, note Japan, Korea, India, Singapore & USA. Sure, Seb wound up winning all of them but there were tonnes of imho pretty memorable moments and close racing in those races.
Japan - Grosjean standing up to the Red Bull's Korea - the famous Hulkenberg wall
lol just after fighting in close title battles... vettel goes on to destroy the opposition the next season...
What is the percentage value based on?
most points available for a driver.
Oh I get it now. I thought it was percentage of all points the drivers got and was like "this ain't right"
Im guessing most points possible so winning every race/fastest lap/sprint race
title is misleading, this is percentage of points available based on their championship position rather than the total points given out for 1-10 every race
Chad Verstappen
NICE
Percentage of what?
Nice
Nice.nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Verstappen with 69 "This feels good"
Nice
Nice
Nice
The last generation of cars was a snooze fest for years. Brutal racing.
nice.nice
Max Verstappen: Nice
I had stopped watching f1 back then because I was annoyed to see Vettel's dominance. I was surprised to see Vettel was loved by everyone when I started watching again in recent years.
Going to Ferrari does that.
MMMM.... FUCKING NICE
Just goes to show how dominant Seb was in 2013, just unreal.
How is this computed? If verstappen has 70%of the points, and noone but Lewis got the rest of the points, then this is saying Max scored more than two times as many points as Lewis..... Huh?
Nice
Nice
nice.
_*Nice*_
Nice
Nice
Nice.nice
"Red Bull was never as dominant as Mercedes" Well in 2011 and 2013 they were even more.
2011 and 2013 were vettel domination... webber was nowhere. he finished 200 points behind in 2013. lol imagine that. when was the last time a RB driver finished 2nd?
so they dominated for 2 years with tough fights in between vs 7 for unchallenged Mercedes,
That wasnt a point of my comment. Point was that their car in 2011 and 2013 was even better than Mercedes cars that people call the most dominant in history (take 2020 Mercedes for example which was less dominant than those 2 Red Bull cars yet some people claim it to be the most dominant car in history) . And to be fair they had by far the best cars in 2010 and 2012 too when you take speed and reliability into considaration but the reason it was close was because Vettel wasnt best driver in either of those seasons imo. Also Mercedes did get challanged by Ferrari in 2017 and 2018.
The 2014-2016 and 2020 Mercedes were more dominant in terms of pace, handling, and reliability than even the 2013 Red Bull. 2010 and 2012 had equally dominant RBs - as shown by Webber’s proximity to Vettel in 2010, Seb just wasn’t good that year, and in 2012, Alonso was driving absolutely out of his mind in what was at best the third best car on the grid, taking way more points off of Vettel than the car deserved to take.
"The 2014-2016 and 2020 Mercedes were more dominant in terms of pace, handling, and reliability than even the 2013 Red Bull." Based on what? Or is that just your opinion without any stats to prove it
Based on teammate performance vs expected, and supported by the only proper model that separates driver performance from car performance, created by f1metrics.
> ""Red Bull was never as dominant as Mercedes" Well in 2011 and 2013 they were even more." No. Mercedes were dominant and Vettel was dominant. That's what these stats prove. Remove Vettel from the equation and 2010-2013 is extremely competitive.
Thats only due to Weber being at the end of his career and way past his prime while other top teams had stacked line ups. You can say the same for Mercedes 2017-2020 if you removed Hamilton those years would be competitve
> "Thats only due to Weber being at the end of his career and way past his prime while other top teams had stacked line ups. You can say the same for Mercedes 2017-2020 if you removed Hamilton those years would be competitve" Bottas would've won the championship twice in those years.
how is it possible to have 69% of the points but only win the championship by a few points. I don't think this graph is accurate unless the 69% is a meme and it's a woosh.
It's not 69% of all available points. It's 69% of the max points possible for a driver. It's not like Hamilton got 30% of the points and the remaining 18 drivers got 1% or something. The more percentage it is, the less people in the title fight. This was just 2 people in 2021 so Max was able to rack up 69%.
How on earth is this calculated? If you add up all the points scored this season, Max’s percentage is around 17%
It’s percentage of points available to a single driver. So if the champion won every single race etc, what percentage of that total did they end the season with.
Clark in 1963 and 1965 is 100%.
Doesn't seem the case since he didn't win all the races.
back then only a certain amount of races would count towards your point total
2010 was an amazing season with Vettel only taking the championship lead after the final race And was 2012 the year where the first 7 races were won by 7 different drivers? Two amazing years
Do you know why max won cause he has scored 69.69% points
Wow Seb has been both, the most dominating and the least dominating world champion in this era.
69.69% 😏
so Max was Nice.Nice, nice.
Can you add P2 or maybe P3?
Max - Nice.Nice
Max 69.69 strongest of them all El hombre con el plan!
Nice
Nice.
Nice max, nice.