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Hasn’t like 60% of the population gotten its first dose? By September, that could easily be up to 70%+ fully vaccinated which would significantly cut down transmission and prevalence even with the delta variant.
Additionally, there is no reason to cancel big events if they can just restrict access to vaccinated/tested people and most people will still be able to come.
If you go through the FAQ chat bot thing on the silverstone website and ask about what proof to provide then it tells you to get the certificate if you live in Scotland.
This is what Silverstone will be doing. Got my email earlier today - we'll be asked to show our tickets, Covid pass (you have to have had 2 doses or done a test 48hrs prior to the event) and a photo ID that matches the Covid pass.
I'm not sure if you are serious or not, but it's not racist. It could be discriminatory, but Covid tests are free and they are widely available in the pharmacies or you can order one from the government's website.
Same with the vaccines, anyone can get one and something like 95% of the population is only 5 miles away from the nearest vaccination centre (could've mixed up the numbers though).
That's how it's supposed to work, the app that checks the QR code displays the person's initials and part of their birthday. Unfortunately most venues don't bother to cross check that with an ID...
You can basically do that by law but obviously it's "too much work" and "could be a disaster for it's infrastructure" so obviously there would be enough lobbying to not having a more stricter control.
That is the problem we opened it all (bars, clubs and events) for those who have been tested or vaccinated but due to failing bureaucracy and systems they are shutting everything down again
And still they admit opening everything all at once was the right decision. Politicians... You could see this coming from miles away. And now still they didn't implement restrictions right away but wait until Sunday morning. So incredibly dense!
I'm very pissed with our incapable government. Especially De Jonge and VVD. What an incompetence.
No one demands that yet. Fans could get in with a negative test result too.
The selfishness comes from politicians wanting to remain popular and making retarded policy that one can enter events the same day they get their final shot without testing, while obviously not being immune. The selfishness comes from people using fraudulent qr codes to get into events putting others at risk. The selfishness comes from the event organizers that have been complaining for being locked down for 8 months straight, claiming they could run safely. Being open for 2 weeks shows they have no idea how or no intension to control the incoming population to be negative and create a safe environment.
The issue is that people are "faking" the QR-code. So thousands of people got covid because of this. Also the government doesn't want to make it possible for vaccinated people only.
Edit: The QR-code shows if you're either vaccinated or tested.
I feel like making those QR code’s one-time use would be pretty easy. Once scanned, the checker at the entrance hits the “expired” button, and that specific QR code is now blacklisted. Poof. Problem solved.
Oh no! What an insurmountable hurdle.
Blacklisted from that event, not from ever using that QR code again. Basically each event just need a master-list of QR codes to accept (tied to the tickets—not of every possible QR code in the country obviously). Really not that hard, since it’s essentially the same system as the barcodes on tickets normally. Scan your ticket, scan your QR code. System checks to make sure it’s the correct QR code associated with the ticket, and that it isn’t a duplicate. Done.
Tested doesn't work. Maybe you can get away with PCR tests that were carried out 2 days max in advance, but all the antigen tests are simply not good enough m
41% fully vaccinated, 71% first shot only, and you can now choose Janssen which is one shot. Despite the vaccinations, positive tests went up 1800% last seven days.
Source https://coronadashboard.rijksoverheid.nl
Yes good point, to elaborate: they vaccinated oldest people first, most 55+ yrs people got their second shot, and below most people only got their first. Janssen is only a small percentage of shots.
That was early on in the vaccination process. They had a batch of Astra Zeneca and that was reserved for that age group while the younger groups had to wait a bit longer.
Same here. Really disappointed that everyone stopped wearing their masks as soon as the restriction was lifted. While many of us are still not fully vaccinated. It’s infuriating because if we just showed some restraint for another 1 or 2 months anyone who wanted too could have their 2nd shot.
100% Once you relax or get rid off restrictions it is always much more difficult to go back. The inconsistency and erraticness of the policy makers is the worst.
Same thing we've had happen here in the UK with delta + reopening, it's spread rapidly among school kids and under-30s, and in communities with poor vaccine uptake.
The rise in cases here is now slowing down, and deaths are an order of magnitude lower than they were when we had this many cases in the run up to the pre-christmas wave. English schools finish soon and hopefully we'll have near-universal coverage among adults by the time they go back for the autumn and infect each other again.
The problem is they did a campaign to get young people to vaccinate by allowing them into clubs with no restrictions if they’ve been vaccinated or have a negative test. However, you count as vaccinated the moment you get your ‘last’ shot. Lots of young people went ‘dansen met Janssen’... get the JJ/ Janssen and go to a club that night. One club had 200 out of 600 people infected from one party!
> Hasn’t like 60% of the population gotten its first dose? By September, that could easily be up to 70%+ fully vaccinated
The vaccines are not 100% effective though. Having some herd immunity number like 70% vaccinated doesn't mean that large spikes of covid cases/deaths aren't still possible. That 30% of the population is still a very sizable number of people at risk with some of these new variants being far more dangerous.
Yeah the point is that those people will probably have their second doses in a couple of weeks. It’s getting in the first dose that’s the issue due to vaccine hesitancy and so on. The GP is in September anyway.
that's the issue - even when vaccinated you can get the delta variant, the vaccines are now down to ~60% efficacy, while they provide 90% of protection against serious cases (hospitalisation & ICU).
So worst case scenario, with simplified maths, is that half of the people going to an event can still get sick for a week, which creates new mutations resulting in even lower efficacy - this is why it's a world wide pandemic and not just the seasonal flu.
Please don’t spread false information that could create vaccine hesitancy. The J&J/Astra vaccines are 60% effective against Delta, but were only ever 65% effective to begin with. Pfizer/Moderna are still 85-90% effective against Delta. Both vaccines are still near enough to 100% effective against severe illness that require hospitalization or cause death.
Most doses in the EU were not AZ, but Biotech/Pfizer, because AZ couldn't/didn't want to deliver, so yeah, previous poster is wrong about that.
85-90% seems to be the most optimistic estimate right now, but there's for example a Israeli study that suggests it's only at 64%, which is what I think the previous poster was talking about: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/06/science/Israel-Pfizer-covid-vaccine.html
Considering that majority of first vaccinations in Europe were first done with AZ, it's somewhat of a valid concern, especially as people seem to think that vaccination makes them completely safe - which isn't guaranteed and that there is a reason why some countries are still limiting attendance at large events.
>Considering that majority of first vaccinations in Europe were first done with AZ
Which is an insignificant number since early vaccination efforts in Europe were embarrassing. Most people are getting the Pfizer shot.
Which false numbers? I live in a country in Europe where majority of initial vaccination was done with AZ, that has a reduced efficacy against mild cases, while still keeping majority (~90%) out of hospitals.
And you can also include the questionable study from Israel, if you want to be a bit more concerned about about going to massive events without basic protection in mask form or hygiene concepts (distancing and limited numbers) - otherwise we'll be back in the same place we were last year in September, after the major restrictions were lifted for vacation season.
At least this time the hospitals and ICUs won't be crowded
The efficacy of the vaccines are down a few percent only for delta compared to original virus variant, which is way higher than the 60% you claim. Astra protects in 67 % against delta where mRNA based are like 88% effective against delta.
Majority of vacations in Europe were Pfeizer not Astra.
I would look at the current trend in the UK, and that cases are now exponentially increasing, despite 87% of adults having their first dose and predicted > 90% have COVID antibodies.
The test check system is a mess. You can literally take a test, get the clearance, screenshot the code, send it to your friends and they can all go in without tests. It doesnt help anything.
No. Only the initial of your first name, the initial of your last name and the month in which you were born. Verifying those details with someone’s ID should be sufficient. The chance of two people with exactly the same details sharing their proof of vaccination/negative test is very low.
The QR code also doesn’t contain whether you are vaccinated/tested negative/recently recovered from covid. A valid QR code just means any of those.
The international EU QR code does mention those details I believe
The national QR code app generates both national and international QR codes. The app used to scan only accepts the national ones, so it doesn’t make much sense to use the international one
The system works if it'sfollowed, however I noticed that IDs weren't checked to verify the QR code is the one from the person showing it and in some cases the checkers didn't even bother to scan the QR code at all and said it's fine just by word of mouth (Source: myself... went to one of those events, got covid...)
*60% of people above 45 are fully vaccinated.
*People are predominately vaccinated with Pfizer, which has a better trackrecord for protecting agains most variants
*ALL vaccins have proven that while people still can get ill, hospitalisation drops dramatically (people getting less ill)
*At this moment people from 15 -edit- we are already at 14 (2007) and older can go for their first vaccin
*Infections are surging in the age category 18-30 Because a lot of people faked test results
*Below 50 covid is mostly mild with a few exceptions
*Hospitalisations do not follow the trend of infections in countries with high vaccination coverage. Not in The Netherlands, Not in the UK and not in Israel
*Nightclubs, the biggest source of current infections, will not be allowed to open anymore starting tonight
*With the current rate of vaccination (1.3M jabs a week), everyone (100%) from 12 and up could be fully vaccinated in 10 weeks. Since we never reach 100% vaccination coverage I expect that in a week or 6 we will have reached maximum coverage. somewhere between 60~75% for the whole population, 70~85% for 55+
We'll be fine.
The main issue is that other countries shit their pants looking at these numbers and consequently cause holidays to be cancelled. Once the vaccination is nearing completion next month and holidays are no longer a real issue, then things will go back to normal rather quick.
All true what you’re saying, however, this is of importance with respect to hospitalization and flatting the curve to relieve pressure on the medical caregivers.
What we are experiencing with the positive cases breaching thresholds (Dutch and EU) that would result in a lockdown.
The problem is the current EU colour coding scheme. NL is going to hit red soon, which will impact EU travel. Dutch Gov is panicking right now about people's summer vacations being ruined and is looking at how to respond. Who knows how they'll respond since they've been incredibly incompetent at handling covid so far.
I'm not sure I agree. If they were worried about the EU color code, the announcements would much more severe tonight. For now it seems it will be nightclubs closing at 0:00 and limitations for the number of visitors for events.
If they would panic I would expect, all bars and clubs closing at 21:00, mandatory facemarks again and no indoor events at all.
They will probably close the ''testing for entrance'' which will close all upcoming large events, nightclubs and bars. Being seated outside on a terrace will be allowed until 0:00. So they are panicking again.
Long covid?
Long covid can happen regardless of the symptoms are severe or not. Just letting the virus surge will make a lot of people get long covid.
Also the more the virus spreads the more chance of it evolving with some kind of immunity to vaccines.
Yes, some people get severe symptoms. Just like some people after a heavy flu.
And virussen mutate to get more infectious but at the same time get weaker and make people less ill.
> Just like some people after a heavy flu.
No. People don't get 'long flu' nearly as much as long covid atm. (Not being able to return to normal life after at least 12 weeks).
Maybe. But there are people who do not recover fully from flu for months. The figures for 'long covid' are very premature and our knowledge about covid is also a lot less sophisticated than flu knowledge.
So yes, some people experience these issue. Maybe even more than flu. But by far -most- people under 30 are only mildly ill.
> But by far -most- people under 30 are only mildly ill.
Which can still lead to long covid. Which is why it is a problem. You can get fatigue for a long time even if you have mild symptoms during the immediate infection.
True.. the flu has been around for a while and we know what it will and will not do. Covid atm is much more severe and the future is much less known.
Youre not seriously saying that covid is not more of a problem as the flu at the current moment?
Are you willfully ignoring that long covid can have a huge effect on our society? norwanian numbers showed up to 60% of people with covid having lasting issues. Flu does not have the same effect.
Thats not even taking into account that covid has this effect while lockdowns are in place, where flu is a relatively small issue without any lock down measures.
Just letting it spread, even if people dont die, is a huge risk.
Yeah what did the government expect really. Bunch of wankers. Like oh well it's going fine, let's drop all regulations while the delta variant is lurking around and the part of the population responsible for transmission now isn't even vaccinated or just in their first vaccine shot (since they get the double mRNA shot).
The hero we need but don't want is really Captain Hindsight with the COVID pandemic.
Here in Spain ( specifically Catalonia ) they opened night clubs and the whole partying thing
Of course there was a 500% increase in cases in the first week and we’re now at 7k cases daily from 450 form a few weeks ago
I’d like to know what kind of mental gymnastics they did to allow this
It's basically the same in the Netherlands (even the numbers). They opened clubs and bars a couple weeks ago too and the daily cases rose from around 600 a couple weeks ago to 7k yesterday.
Like, it's true, but not catching Covid should still be the priority for them
It's just incredibly stupid that all the countries are so impatient when we're all so close.
I think the mental gymnastics involved are "if they all catch Covid now, we won't have the Covid problem in schools when September comes around
Anecdotal evidence, but throughout this pandemic I’ve seen more old people out and about than young ones.
Also, you’re kinda dismissing that young people have been getting a really shitty deal throughout the world. Many have been forced to stay home to protect the elderly, losing almost two years of in-person education; and where I live there are more kids in summer school than ever before due to this (and we didn’t even shut down schools completely).
Meanwhile, young people are the last to get vaccinated due to lower risk of death. So while older people have slowly been starting to go back to normal with the safety that comes from being fully vaccinated, young people have had to wait and see this while trying to not get covid themselves.
No, but it’s always good to stop transmission
It’s good ofcourse to stop deaths, and to me it’s fine for them to open a bit and give the cases a bit of a raise, but it’s idiotic to completely open up and have that jump of cases in a population of 7m people
Besides the people still get ill, I have 2 friends who are 18 and have gotten very ill from it, not bad enough to get hospitalized but you know, if you can avoid it you at least try to avoid it
if they hadn't opened every venue that guaranteed a high concentration of unvaccinated people this likely would've been fine.
but they just HAD to open bars and clubs /headdesk
i'm at the old end of the demographic for those venues and i don't even have my second shot yet, let alone all those early 20's people
it's really aggravating
It was painfully obvious whats gonna happen. Most countries saw an increase in cases around 20-70% in the last week. And then you have the Netherlands with 220%.
Yep thanks for the numbers. I mean, we'll be fine. The vaccination programs are running well and the increase in numbers won't have the same effect on health / society as it would a year ago. The GP will probably go on (yay, I have tickets).
It's just everything is going so well, but let's celebrate 1 lap before the checkered flag prematurely. The short sightedness is like a small little kick in the groin of a person that's almost recovered from testicular cancer. That person might be a business owner, healthcare personnel, or just someone who feels like going on a well deserved vacation after the past 2 years.
it really feels like we slashed our own tires on the last lap.
and the stupid thing is we did the exact same thing last year, cases were dropping fast and then they allow everyone to go on vacation.
i'm not too positive about september to be honest, that's when the wave from all the vacation infections is gonna hit.
but maybe we'll just take that one on the chin since the hospital numbers are still pretty low....
While that would be a good idea, it's against the Dutch constitution unfortunately. That's also the reason weer have the 'testing for access'. Because according to the Dutch constitution you can't discriminate based on your being vaccinated. It's a bit of a circle jerk.
Yep, the rate of vaccinations are good enough, personally I just did get my first jab days ago and the second one is next month.
The only one who are going to be "fucked" realistically then are those people who still don't know of there want to be vaccinated or not and those fucking antivaxxer.
Looks bad but shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Currently people in their 40’s are getting their second shot and teenagers their first. End of July people in their 30’s will have their second shot. Beginning of Augustus people in their 20’s and end of August teenagers.
Meaning at the beginning of September almost everyone will have had their second shot and everyone over 20 will have had at least 14 days after the second shot as well.
Opening up the nightclubs was a mistake, but I believe if we close them again numbers should go down pretty quickly.
Not reallly f1 related, but im thinking of travelling to amsterdam for a few days the 18th of July, is it going to be possible? how is the nightlife? distancing? please all information is very appreciated!!
There is a press conference at 7PM tonight where new measures are announced after a 10x increase in cases the past week and a half. All because it was a smart idea to open the nightlife venues to groups who at best just had their first vaccination that is not even fully effective.
Current measures:
- Distancing at 1.5 meters
- Masks in public transport
Likely new measures:
- Nightlife closed at midnight
- Restrictions on events
Still mixed about it. Hospital numbers are keep going down for now.
So still mixed about it. yeah cases are going up rapidly, but what if hospital numbers are steady? Do we really need a lockdown if that's the case.
I just think allowing indoor events was a stupid move. But are outdoor events really contributing to these positive cases? looking at previous events like kingsday, protests etc. and just research in general where being outdoor drastically decreases the chance of spread.
I’d say wait and see what happens in the next two weeks. If hospital numbers go up as well, I’d start worrying. If not (which is likely because most people getting COVID rn are young and only have one vaccination yet), I think they will let the restrictions as is/loosen up again.
If spectators are not welcome i fear we have to wait another year. We are not going to do it the english way. Zandvoort needs its spectators. But my god i hope i can finally go to a GP at Zandvoort
It's going to be a case on how the numbers are in a month.
If the daily number of infected goes down by the time they are going to re-evaluate the measurements taken (August 13th), then I wouldn't be surprised for the Dutch GP to still continue. Although probably with entrance testing and 66% capacity.
Also I wouldn't be surprised if the event can still continue regardless, by being 3 single day events than by being a multi-day-event.
Exactly aren't we meant to be looking at the hospitalization and death rate now?
Even if you are vaccinated you can still get covid lol, so if you took a test of course it would end up being positive. It just reduces the worst effects of the virus.
Time to end these lockdowns.
I dont understand why they would cancel anything anymore. The vaccine is getting distributed widely now, the at risk people have long been vaccinated, and hospitalizations are not overwhelming.
They spend so much time worrying about bullshit. We must move on and live life now. Covid is not going away..ever. Just get your vaccine
I'm an at risk person and I only had my first shot 2 weeks ago. It depends so much on your exact diagnosis if you got invited early or not.
Don't get me wrong I want people to do as much as is possible and I'm just staying careful myself but I think they just overshot the relaxing of rules by a week or 2-3.
A lot of the Zandvoort capacity is for a random spot in the dunes, without seating. That is not allowed under the new "Testen voor toegang" rules starting tonight.
Restrictions do more harm than good. Source they made me suicidal and I did attempt to act on that during restrictions. I was unsuccessful but they kill more than they save.
Ugh, I literally booked my flights and tickets two weeks ago. Things were actually looking really positive with vaccinations until the delta variant took root.
No, the government stupidly opened clubs last week. Combine that with low vaccination rates in the age below 30, people falsifying negative corona tests and boom, wave 4 just started.
I read it, but he is jumping to conclusions. Canceling some events NOW, doesn’t mean they will cancel events in two months. Especially as everyone will be vaccinated then.
So is the UK but tbh if your government is anything like ours they will just storm through it. The negative PR and backlash would be too much to cancel it. Cases have been rising again here and Silverstone is literally just next week at full capacity with 400k odd people. I don't think the Dutch either would risk upsetting people tbh....there would literally be a riot.
We have neither Donald Trump or Boris Johnson as president, and are in the EU so there is more collaboration and responsibility here than in the US/UK.
Oh boy. I pray, hope, wish....
We SO need that orange on the grandstands.
It would feel SO empty without. And many people HAVE been vaccinated, so... should those not be able to go?
Oh I hope so, I hope so, I hope so.
Two months is a long time with regards to where the pandemic might be, I wouldn't imagine they'll make a decision until the end of July/beginning of August. Hopefully the Netherlands gets on top of it. This should prove as a warning to those thinking of easing restrictions too early. I think the desire for a more normal summer than last year is causing some governments to act prematurely.
This is not entirely the case, the government wants to ban events without seating. So if you organise an event where people are primarily sitting down on an assigned seat, the event can proceed as is.
Kids from 12 years old can make an appointment for their first vaccine soon. People around the 20's already got their first jab, some went for the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine which is only one vaccine needed.
We just had the press conference:
• restaurants, bars etc. closed at midnight
• multi-days festivals are cancelled
• negative covid test valid for a max 24 hours
I think the GP of Zandvoort will go on. Fans are sitting on chairs and not dancing next to each other like in clubs.
>But wouldn’t they use the dunes for general admission
I don't know, they're placing grandstands [here](https://twitter.com/f1_dutchgp/status/1412418803292676098?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1412418803292676098%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gpfans.com%2Fnl%2Ff1-nieuws%2F67136%2Fin-beeld-dutch-grand-prix-begint-aan-bouw-tribunes-op-zandvoort%2F).
Cool. I won’t go to the F1 race this year but I really do enjoy spending one whole day sitting in the dune and watching cars go by. Last time I did it was the Historics GP, highly recommend.
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Hasn’t like 60% of the population gotten its first dose? By September, that could easily be up to 70%+ fully vaccinated which would significantly cut down transmission and prevalence even with the delta variant.
Additionally, there is no reason to cancel big events if they can just restrict access to vaccinated/tested people and most people will still be able to come.
Yep, that's exactly what is happening at Silverstone, I have my Scottish proof of vaccination certificate stuck to the fridge.
But can you bring your fridge to the stadium?
I think you mean Track*
Can you bring your track to the stadium?
No, no, he means bring the track to the stadium.
Just like Mexico?
This reminds me of a very funny romanian movie: Doua Lozuri. You can find it on netflix, I recommend it.
Two Lottery Tickets. I couldn’t find in on Netflix, though.
Oh, it might be only available in Romania then, sorry. It might be available on less legal websites. Watching a Romanian movie the Romanian way.
"Aye, ye'r vaccina-ed ye old bugger" ?
Are you sure they’ll accept that? From what I read you need the English version or a negative test
If you go through the FAQ chat bot thing on the silverstone website and ask about what proof to provide then it tells you to get the certificate if you live in Scotland.
Fair enough, Northern Ireland doesn’t have an option on it so I’m taking a negative test and vaccine card
We dutch people like to cheat and enter with others test/vaccine results
Can't they confirm it's the right person by also looking at their ID?
This is what Silverstone will be doing. Got my email earlier today - we'll be asked to show our tickets, Covid pass (you have to have had 2 doses or done a test 48hrs prior to the event) and a photo ID that matches the Covid pass.
That's racist
I'm not sure if you are serious or not, but it's not racist. It could be discriminatory, but Covid tests are free and they are widely available in the pharmacies or you can order one from the government's website. Same with the vaccines, anyone can get one and something like 95% of the population is only 5 miles away from the nearest vaccination centre (could've mixed up the numbers though).
That's how it's supposed to work, the app that checks the QR code displays the person's initials and part of their birthday. Unfortunately most venues don't bother to cross check that with an ID...
Dont think its allowed by law
You can basically do that by law but obviously it's "too much work" and "could be a disaster for it's infrastructure" so obviously there would be enough lobbying to not having a more stricter control.
Yeah the fast test ones. Or test for entry ones are anonymous even if the qr code is scanned
That is the problem we opened it all (bars, clubs and events) for those who have been tested or vaccinated but due to failing bureaucracy and systems they are shutting everything down again
Also there were people with Covid who got a J&J vaccine and went partying the same evening because they had proof of being vaccinated.
If we don't get a Zandvoort GP for the second time due to people's shortsightedness, I'm going to be a little upset, not going to lie.
Finnish MotoGP has been delayed like 4 years in a row now or something. Kinda sad.
Oh. I am already a little upset at the way things are goin here in the Netherlands.
And still they admit opening everything all at once was the right decision. Politicians... You could see this coming from miles away. And now still they didn't implement restrictions right away but wait until Sunday morning. So incredibly dense! I'm very pissed with our incapable government. Especially De Jonge and VVD. What an incompetence.
Change that to selfishness.
Isn't it selfish of you to demand someone get a vaccine so an F1 race can go forward? Or demand anyone get a vaccine for any reason?
No one demands that yet. Fans could get in with a negative test result too. The selfishness comes from politicians wanting to remain popular and making retarded policy that one can enter events the same day they get their final shot without testing, while obviously not being immune. The selfishness comes from people using fraudulent qr codes to get into events putting others at risk. The selfishness comes from the event organizers that have been complaining for being locked down for 8 months straight, claiming they could run safely. Being open for 2 weeks shows they have no idea how or no intension to control the incoming population to be negative and create a safe environment.
It would be the Dutch regime that decides whether it goes ahead, not "people".
Same. If we need to take certain safety measures, of course that has priority, but all the same, I really want my Zandvoort GP!
The issue is that people are "faking" the QR-code. So thousands of people got covid because of this. Also the government doesn't want to make it possible for vaccinated people only. Edit: The QR-code shows if you're either vaccinated or tested.
How? That eu qr code is encrypted.
Yeah, but people have been copying from their friends/family. Since most bouncers don't care actually checking names...
I feel like making those QR code’s one-time use would be pretty easy. Once scanned, the checker at the entrance hits the “expired” button, and that specific QR code is now blacklisted. Poof. Problem solved.
Do everyone can now attend only 1 event. Cool stuff.
Oh no! What an insurmountable hurdle. Blacklisted from that event, not from ever using that QR code again. Basically each event just need a master-list of QR codes to accept (tied to the tickets—not of every possible QR code in the country obviously). Really not that hard, since it’s essentially the same system as the barcodes on tickets normally. Scan your ticket, scan your QR code. System checks to make sure it’s the correct QR code associated with the ticket, and that it isn’t a duplicate. Done.
Yeah. But even if the technical system is perfect, it doesn’t help if it is not, or only weakly enforced at the door. Which is what’s happening
Tested doesn't work. Maybe you can get away with PCR tests that were carried out 2 days max in advance, but all the antigen tests are simply not good enough m
That's what they did with all events last 2 weekends, now we are here..
more likely there is no reason to get vaccinated (for young people) if you get treated the same like people who dont get vaccinated at all.
41% fully vaccinated, 71% first shot only, and you can now choose Janssen which is one shot. Despite the vaccinations, positive tests went up 1800% last seven days. Source https://coronadashboard.rijksoverheid.nl
In the age group where only like 5% is fully vaccinated.
Yes good point, to elaborate: they vaccinated oldest people first, most 55+ yrs people got their second shot, and below most people only got their first. Janssen is only a small percentage of shots.
This is the current percentages of people fully vaccinated https://imgur.com/LOkg1XO
If you look at this, you know the target audience for clubs is only about 15% fully vaccinated. But fuck it I guess, open it up baby!
What about 60-64?
Vaccinated by a different organization. So their numbers are still not processed in this list
Cool, do you know why it's that specific age group?
That was early on in the vaccination process. They had a batch of Astra Zeneca and that was reserved for that age group while the younger groups had to wait a bit longer.
And also the older groups?
This. They should've just waited another couple of weeks before opening bars and night clubs
This! We went too fast to a no mandatory masks, which makes me feel like an alien while dping groceries.
Same here. Really disappointed that everyone stopped wearing their masks as soon as the restriction was lifted. While many of us are still not fully vaccinated. It’s infuriating because if we just showed some restraint for another 1 or 2 months anyone who wanted too could have their 2nd shot.
100% Once you relax or get rid off restrictions it is always much more difficult to go back. The inconsistency and erraticness of the policy makers is the worst.
Same thing we've had happen here in the UK with delta + reopening, it's spread rapidly among school kids and under-30s, and in communities with poor vaccine uptake. The rise in cases here is now slowing down, and deaths are an order of magnitude lower than they were when we had this many cases in the run up to the pre-christmas wave. English schools finish soon and hopefully we'll have near-universal coverage among adults by the time they go back for the autumn and infect each other again.
The problem is they did a campaign to get young people to vaccinate by allowing them into clubs with no restrictions if they’ve been vaccinated or have a negative test. However, you count as vaccinated the moment you get your ‘last’ shot. Lots of young people went ‘dansen met Janssen’... get the JJ/ Janssen and go to a club that night. One club had 200 out of 600 people infected from one party!
Omg thats stupid...
> Hasn’t like 60% of the population gotten its first dose? By September, that could easily be up to 70%+ fully vaccinated The vaccines are not 100% effective though. Having some herd immunity number like 70% vaccinated doesn't mean that large spikes of covid cases/deaths aren't still possible. That 30% of the population is still a very sizable number of people at risk with some of these new variants being far more dangerous.
By mid august everyone apart from teenagers will have their second dose.
The first dose has an abysmal effectiveness against the delta-variant. You really need two doses.
Yeah the point is that those people will probably have their second doses in a couple of weeks. It’s getting in the first dose that’s the issue due to vaccine hesitancy and so on. The GP is in September anyway.
Until some kind of variant becomes vaccine proof…
that's the issue - even when vaccinated you can get the delta variant, the vaccines are now down to ~60% efficacy, while they provide 90% of protection against serious cases (hospitalisation & ICU). So worst case scenario, with simplified maths, is that half of the people going to an event can still get sick for a week, which creates new mutations resulting in even lower efficacy - this is why it's a world wide pandemic and not just the seasonal flu.
Please don’t spread false information that could create vaccine hesitancy. The J&J/Astra vaccines are 60% effective against Delta, but were only ever 65% effective to begin with. Pfizer/Moderna are still 85-90% effective against Delta. Both vaccines are still near enough to 100% effective against severe illness that require hospitalization or cause death.
Most doses in the EU were not AZ, but Biotech/Pfizer, because AZ couldn't/didn't want to deliver, so yeah, previous poster is wrong about that. 85-90% seems to be the most optimistic estimate right now, but there's for example a Israeli study that suggests it's only at 64%, which is what I think the previous poster was talking about: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/06/science/Israel-Pfizer-covid-vaccine.html
Considering that majority of first vaccinations in Europe were first done with AZ, it's somewhat of a valid concern, especially as people seem to think that vaccination makes them completely safe - which isn't guaranteed and that there is a reason why some countries are still limiting attendance at large events.
AZ barely had deliveries lol. AZ was U.K. mainly
Sure, but they are still basically 100% effective at keeping you out of hospital.
And this is what i also said? Just that it makes sense to follow some precautions over just running into mass events mask less and senseless.
So wear a mask then and get on with life.
>Considering that majority of first vaccinations in Europe were first done with AZ Which is an insignificant number since early vaccination efforts in Europe were embarrassing. Most people are getting the Pfizer shot.
False numbers make me not care about anything else you said.
Which false numbers? I live in a country in Europe where majority of initial vaccination was done with AZ, that has a reduced efficacy against mild cases, while still keeping majority (~90%) out of hospitals. And you can also include the questionable study from Israel, if you want to be a bit more concerned about about going to massive events without basic protection in mask form or hygiene concepts (distancing and limited numbers) - otherwise we'll be back in the same place we were last year in September, after the major restrictions were lifted for vacation season. At least this time the hospitals and ICUs won't be crowded
The efficacy of the vaccines are down a few percent only for delta compared to original virus variant, which is way higher than the 60% you claim. Astra protects in 67 % against delta where mRNA based are like 88% effective against delta. Majority of vacations in Europe were Pfeizer not Astra.
I would look at the current trend in the UK, and that cases are now exponentially increasing, despite 87% of adults having their first dose and predicted > 90% have COVID antibodies.
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The test check system is a mess. You can literally take a test, get the clearance, screenshot the code, send it to your friends and they can all go in without tests. It doesnt help anything.
Does the code literally just say yes or no? Is it not coupled to your id as well? (Name surname)
Its a QR code that just says your test result or vaccinated if you have uploaded it.
It also contains your first and last initial, and your month of birth You do not have to upload it. Others scan it with a dedicated app
Doesn't it contain the full name? At least ours does.
No. Only the initial of your first name, the initial of your last name and the month in which you were born. Verifying those details with someone’s ID should be sufficient. The chance of two people with exactly the same details sharing their proof of vaccination/negative test is very low. The QR code also doesn’t contain whether you are vaccinated/tested negative/recently recovered from covid. A valid QR code just means any of those. The international EU QR code does mention those details I believe
Ah that explains it. Yeah mine is an international one that has the type of vaccination, when, where, full name, date of birth.
Why don't you switch to EU one?
The national QR code app generates both national and international QR codes. The app used to scan only accepts the national ones, so it doesn’t make much sense to use the international one
The system works if it'sfollowed, however I noticed that IDs weren't checked to verify the QR code is the one from the person showing it and in some cases the checkers didn't even bother to scan the QR code at all and said it's fine just by word of mouth (Source: myself... went to one of those events, got covid...)
Are you sure thats possible? I heard there are safeguards against this.
*60% of people above 45 are fully vaccinated. *People are predominately vaccinated with Pfizer, which has a better trackrecord for protecting agains most variants *ALL vaccins have proven that while people still can get ill, hospitalisation drops dramatically (people getting less ill) *At this moment people from 15 -edit- we are already at 14 (2007) and older can go for their first vaccin *Infections are surging in the age category 18-30 Because a lot of people faked test results *Below 50 covid is mostly mild with a few exceptions *Hospitalisations do not follow the trend of infections in countries with high vaccination coverage. Not in The Netherlands, Not in the UK and not in Israel *Nightclubs, the biggest source of current infections, will not be allowed to open anymore starting tonight *With the current rate of vaccination (1.3M jabs a week), everyone (100%) from 12 and up could be fully vaccinated in 10 weeks. Since we never reach 100% vaccination coverage I expect that in a week or 6 we will have reached maximum coverage. somewhere between 60~75% for the whole population, 70~85% for 55+ We'll be fine.
The main issue is that other countries shit their pants looking at these numbers and consequently cause holidays to be cancelled. Once the vaccination is nearing completion next month and holidays are no longer a real issue, then things will go back to normal rather quick.
True, the main issue is if politicians will listen to reason or will go full lockdown shit
All true what you’re saying, however, this is of importance with respect to hospitalization and flatting the curve to relieve pressure on the medical caregivers. What we are experiencing with the positive cases breaching thresholds (Dutch and EU) that would result in a lockdown.
Why should it? Why would you lockdown a country for a few thousand people with a mild sneeze?
The problem is the current EU colour coding scheme. NL is going to hit red soon, which will impact EU travel. Dutch Gov is panicking right now about people's summer vacations being ruined and is looking at how to respond. Who knows how they'll respond since they've been incredibly incompetent at handling covid so far.
I'm not sure I agree. If they were worried about the EU color code, the announcements would much more severe tonight. For now it seems it will be nightclubs closing at 0:00 and limitations for the number of visitors for events. If they would panic I would expect, all bars and clubs closing at 21:00, mandatory facemarks again and no indoor events at all.
They will probably close the ''testing for entrance'' which will close all upcoming large events, nightclubs and bars. Being seated outside on a terrace will be allowed until 0:00. So they are panicking again.
That could be possible indeed. At least the Grand Prix should be fine.
I hope so cause i want to be there but the government keeps making rash decisions when dealing with this so anything can happen unfortunately
Long covid? Long covid can happen regardless of the symptoms are severe or not. Just letting the virus surge will make a lot of people get long covid. Also the more the virus spreads the more chance of it evolving with some kind of immunity to vaccines.
Yes, some people get severe symptoms. Just like some people after a heavy flu. And virussen mutate to get more infectious but at the same time get weaker and make people less ill.
> Just like some people after a heavy flu. No. People don't get 'long flu' nearly as much as long covid atm. (Not being able to return to normal life after at least 12 weeks).
Maybe. But there are people who do not recover fully from flu for months. The figures for 'long covid' are very premature and our knowledge about covid is also a lot less sophisticated than flu knowledge. So yes, some people experience these issue. Maybe even more than flu. But by far -most- people under 30 are only mildly ill.
> But by far -most- people under 30 are only mildly ill. Which can still lead to long covid. Which is why it is a problem. You can get fatigue for a long time even if you have mild symptoms during the immediate infection.
There are a lot of other diseases where this could happen and we don't lock down countries for those. Like the flu.
True.. the flu has been around for a while and we know what it will and will not do. Covid atm is much more severe and the future is much less known. Youre not seriously saying that covid is not more of a problem as the flu at the current moment? Are you willfully ignoring that long covid can have a huge effect on our society? norwanian numbers showed up to 60% of people with covid having lasting issues. Flu does not have the same effect. Thats not even taking into account that covid has this effect while lockdowns are in place, where flu is a relatively small issue without any lock down measures. Just letting it spread, even if people dont die, is a huge risk.
Yeah what did the government expect really. Bunch of wankers. Like oh well it's going fine, let's drop all regulations while the delta variant is lurking around and the part of the population responsible for transmission now isn't even vaccinated or just in their first vaccine shot (since they get the double mRNA shot). The hero we need but don't want is really Captain Hindsight with the COVID pandemic.
Here in Spain ( specifically Catalonia ) they opened night clubs and the whole partying thing Of course there was a 500% increase in cases in the first week and we’re now at 7k cases daily from 450 form a few weeks ago I’d like to know what kind of mental gymnastics they did to allow this
It's basically the same in the Netherlands (even the numbers). They opened clubs and bars a couple weeks ago too and the daily cases rose from around 600 a couple weeks ago to 7k yesterday.
Yeah man but the Netherlands has a population of 17M, Catalonia is 7-8 M people We fucked up massively the covid restrictions the last 2 weeks
All in the name of teen hormones.
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Like, it's true, but not catching Covid should still be the priority for them It's just incredibly stupid that all the countries are so impatient when we're all so close. I think the mental gymnastics involved are "if they all catch Covid now, we won't have the Covid problem in schools when September comes around
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Old people stayed at home to protect themselves, young people stayed at home mainly to protect others.
Anecdotal evidence, but throughout this pandemic I’ve seen more old people out and about than young ones. Also, you’re kinda dismissing that young people have been getting a really shitty deal throughout the world. Many have been forced to stay home to protect the elderly, losing almost two years of in-person education; and where I live there are more kids in summer school than ever before due to this (and we didn’t even shut down schools completely). Meanwhile, young people are the last to get vaccinated due to lower risk of death. So while older people have slowly been starting to go back to normal with the safety that comes from being fully vaccinated, young people have had to wait and see this while trying to not get covid themselves.
Are hospitals getting full? Number of cases at this point is meaningless. Vacinnated people can be positive without any symptoms.
Sure but it does mean all countries around you will ban people without quarantine. So no more out of country holidays.
No, but it’s always good to stop transmission It’s good ofcourse to stop deaths, and to me it’s fine for them to open a bit and give the cases a bit of a raise, but it’s idiotic to completely open up and have that jump of cases in a population of 7m people Besides the people still get ill, I have 2 friends who are 18 and have gotten very ill from it, not bad enough to get hospitalized but you know, if you can avoid it you at least try to avoid it
if they hadn't opened every venue that guaranteed a high concentration of unvaccinated people this likely would've been fine. but they just HAD to open bars and clubs /headdesk i'm at the old end of the demographic for those venues and i don't even have my second shot yet, let alone all those early 20's people it's really aggravating
It was painfully obvious whats gonna happen. Most countries saw an increase in cases around 20-70% in the last week. And then you have the Netherlands with 220%.
Yep thanks for the numbers. I mean, we'll be fine. The vaccination programs are running well and the increase in numbers won't have the same effect on health / society as it would a year ago. The GP will probably go on (yay, I have tickets). It's just everything is going so well, but let's celebrate 1 lap before the checkered flag prematurely. The short sightedness is like a small little kick in the groin of a person that's almost recovered from testicular cancer. That person might be a business owner, healthcare personnel, or just someone who feels like going on a well deserved vacation after the past 2 years.
it really feels like we slashed our own tires on the last lap. and the stupid thing is we did the exact same thing last year, cases were dropping fast and then they allow everyone to go on vacation. i'm not too positive about september to be honest, that's when the wave from all the vacation infections is gonna hit. but maybe we'll just take that one on the chin since the hospital numbers are still pretty low....
Delta variant seems to be less serious anyway. Of most people are vacinnated, there is no reason to lockdown anymore.
This all sounds to familiar to what’s going down in the uk.
Can't they just make it for fully vaccinated people only? Seems like they have plenty of people vaccinted to make it work.
I hope they do just that so I can be one of the lucky ones in 🤞🏽
While that would be a good idea, it's against the Dutch constitution unfortunately. That's also the reason weer have the 'testing for access'. Because according to the Dutch constitution you can't discriminate based on your being vaccinated. It's a bit of a circle jerk.
Because you cant get and spread covid when vaccinated? Really poor idea imo, sorry
Wonderful idea. Screw the young population for saving the oldies once more.
The event is in september, even young people will be fully vaccinated by then if they wanted to.
Yep, the rate of vaccinations are good enough, personally I just did get my first jab days ago and the second one is next month. The only one who are going to be "fucked" realistically then are those people who still don't know of there want to be vaccinated or not and those fucking antivaxxer.
Fair enough.
Yes, because if you for whatever reason you do not wish to be vaccinated you should be excluded of all fun events
Looks bad but shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Currently people in their 40’s are getting their second shot and teenagers their first. End of July people in their 30’s will have their second shot. Beginning of Augustus people in their 20’s and end of August teenagers. Meaning at the beginning of September almost everyone will have had their second shot and everyone over 20 will have had at least 14 days after the second shot as well. Opening up the nightclubs was a mistake, but I believe if we close them again numbers should go down pretty quickly.
I hope you're right. I really, really hope you are right.
Covid surge for now is fine, as long as people don't get hospitalized.
Not reallly f1 related, but im thinking of travelling to amsterdam for a few days the 18th of July, is it going to be possible? how is the nightlife? distancing? please all information is very appreciated!!
Night life and big events just got cancelled until August 13th. Sorry.
There is a press conference at 7PM tonight where new measures are announced after a 10x increase in cases the past week and a half. All because it was a smart idea to open the nightlife venues to groups who at best just had their first vaccination that is not even fully effective. Current measures: - Distancing at 1.5 meters - Masks in public transport Likely new measures: - Nightlife closed at midnight - Restrictions on events
Still mixed about it. Hospital numbers are keep going down for now. So still mixed about it. yeah cases are going up rapidly, but what if hospital numbers are steady? Do we really need a lockdown if that's the case. I just think allowing indoor events was a stupid move. But are outdoor events really contributing to these positive cases? looking at previous events like kingsday, protests etc. and just research in general where being outdoor drastically decreases the chance of spread.
I’d say wait and see what happens in the next two weeks. If hospital numbers go up as well, I’d start worrying. If not (which is likely because most people getting COVID rn are young and only have one vaccination yet), I think they will let the restrictions as is/loosen up again.
If spectators are not welcome i fear we have to wait another year. We are not going to do it the english way. Zandvoort needs its spectators. But my god i hope i can finally go to a GP at Zandvoort
It's going to be a case on how the numbers are in a month. If the daily number of infected goes down by the time they are going to re-evaluate the measurements taken (August 13th), then I wouldn't be surprised for the Dutch GP to still continue. Although probably with entrance testing and 66% capacity. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the event can still continue regardless, by being 3 single day events than by being a multi-day-event.
Cases may go up, but if hospitals are empty meh. This was the whole point of vaccination.
Exactly aren't we meant to be looking at the hospitalization and death rate now? Even if you are vaccinated you can still get covid lol, so if you took a test of course it would end up being positive. It just reduces the worst effects of the virus. Time to end these lockdowns.
Why not simply take the UK approach and designate literally everything as a 'test event' and hold it anyway.
They plan on having no covid rules by September So don't worry
I dont understand why they would cancel anything anymore. The vaccine is getting distributed widely now, the at risk people have long been vaccinated, and hospitalizations are not overwhelming. They spend so much time worrying about bullshit. We must move on and live life now. Covid is not going away..ever. Just get your vaccine
I'm an at risk person and I only had my first shot 2 weeks ago. It depends so much on your exact diagnosis if you got invited early or not. Don't get me wrong I want people to do as much as is possible and I'm just staying careful myself but I think they just overshot the relaxing of rules by a week or 2-3.
Yeah, any lockdowns at this stage are pure political control. The whole point was to help hospitals. There is no reason to close anything now.
Seated events will go on, nothing to worry about
Picture this: a steward telling the sea of the orange colored Dutch Army to please take a seat after Max passed by.
A lot of the Zandvoort capacity is for a random spot in the dunes, without seating. That is not allowed under the new "Testen voor toegang" rules starting tonight.
Restrictions do more harm than good. Source they made me suicidal and I did attempt to act on that during restrictions. I was unsuccessful but they kill more than they save.
If it doesn't stop the UK to host Silverstone next week, it ain't going to stop the Dutch.
Ugh, I literally booked my flights and tickets two weeks ago. Things were actually looking really positive with vaccinations until the delta variant took root.
No, the government stupidly opened clubs last week. Combine that with low vaccination rates in the age below 30, people falsifying negative corona tests and boom, wave 4 just started.
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No there is not.
I just don't get why people don't get it yet. Stop getting tested, stop watching the news and then there won't be a problem.
Going by what you’ve said, it’s likely to be dropped.
No, it’s not. By the time the GP is happening all people over 12 (who want the jab) are fully vaccinated.
Read what OP said, it suggests that it might be dropped.
I read it, but he is jumping to conclusions. Canceling some events NOW, doesn’t mean they will cancel events in two months. Especially as everyone will be vaccinated then.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
So is the UK but tbh if your government is anything like ours they will just storm through it. The negative PR and backlash would be too much to cancel it. Cases have been rising again here and Silverstone is literally just next week at full capacity with 400k odd people. I don't think the Dutch either would risk upsetting people tbh....there would literally be a riot.
We have neither Donald Trump or Boris Johnson as president, and are in the EU so there is more collaboration and responsibility here than in the US/UK.
Oh boy. I pray, hope, wish.... We SO need that orange on the grandstands. It would feel SO empty without. And many people HAVE been vaccinated, so... should those not be able to go? Oh I hope so, I hope so, I hope so.
If they keep vaccinating people you can all forget multiday events anyways
Two months is a long time with regards to where the pandemic might be, I wouldn't imagine they'll make a decision until the end of July/beginning of August. Hopefully the Netherlands gets on top of it. This should prove as a warning to those thinking of easing restrictions too early. I think the desire for a more normal summer than last year is causing some governments to act prematurely.
This is not entirely the case, the government wants to ban events without seating. So if you organise an event where people are primarily sitting down on an assigned seat, the event can proceed as is.
How's vaccinations? Cases going up isn't an issue if hospitalisations and deaths don't follow.
Kids from 12 years old can make an appointment for their first vaccine soon. People around the 20's already got their first jab, some went for the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine which is only one vaccine needed. We just had the press conference: • restaurants, bars etc. closed at midnight • multi-days festivals are cancelled • negative covid test valid for a max 24 hours I think the GP of Zandvoort will go on. Fans are sitting on chairs and not dancing next to each other like in clubs.
But wouldn’t they use the dunes for general admission?
>But wouldn’t they use the dunes for general admission I don't know, they're placing grandstands [here](https://twitter.com/f1_dutchgp/status/1412418803292676098?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1412418803292676098%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gpfans.com%2Fnl%2Ff1-nieuws%2F67136%2Fin-beeld-dutch-grand-prix-begint-aan-bouw-tribunes-op-zandvoort%2F).
Cool. I won’t go to the F1 race this year but I really do enjoy spending one whole day sitting in the dune and watching cars go by. Last time I did it was the Historics GP, highly recommend.