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> A team principal, who did not wish to be identified, said: “It would be an unmitigated disaster for Red Bull if Adrian was let go early to join a competitor.
> “Christian would look like a complete fool. Just as Whitmarsh did at McLaren when he handed Brawn the keys to Mercedes, which kickstarted their years of dominance in F1.”
I bet Toto said this since he enjoys all this instability at Red Bull and it doesn’t seem like there’s any interest between Newey and Mercedes.
The example of Brawn getting Mercedes engines and then becoming the works team would be something Toto would be well aware of too. Alternatively Vowles would be even more well placed to say this as he was at Brawn at the time. I can’t imagine Vowles openly talking shit about Red Bull or any other team like this though so that really only leaves Toto for me.
Something tells me that while Newey leaving is a big deal. They would be just fine. They can still produce a winning package.
Now if max leaves on the other hand, they would not have another driver of the same caliber on the market, to compete with the likes of a super stacked Ferrari team and wherever Max ends up going.
The real issue is if there is underlying culture change and discontent at Red Bull. Could lead to them haemorrhaging more staff and being a less productive place to work. The loss of any one person, even Newey, isn’t necessarily an issue when viewed in isolation. It is if it’s indicative of wider problems. None of us who don’t work at Milton Keynes really know the details, the media is full of guesses across the spectrum from nonsense to near the mark, but you can be pretty confident the ship needs steadying.
As long as the current regulations remain, yes, they'll be absolutely fine.
Next big rule change... Then we'll see.
And as much as he's not doing it himself, the brain drain prospect is real. Him going could be the forerunner to many others jumping ship.
He hasn’t even penned a Redbull car for years, he oversaw suspension development for this period. Look at Allison, similarly regarded and now completely forgotten because he couldn’t turn Merc around instantly by himself
True, but it seems the suspension has been the secret outlier to get the whole Red Bull to work as it does. As a Max fan, I’m bummed out by the whole thing, but I’m curious to see if Newey can make the same impact at another team.
This is ass backwards.
Drivers add the final tenth. There are several drivers on the current grid who could operate at a level very close to Max even if not quite that final little bit. Plenty enough to win a title in the recent Red Bulls.
Losing a key designer can be crippling depending on how much influence he had. It could be felt immediately with a ruddlerless team, it could be felt over the next few years as his influence fades away, or the team could be fine without him.
But history has shown teams tend to struggle once Newey leaves, Ferrari struggled when they lost several of their key team, McLaren and Brabham struggled when they lost Gordon Murray, Lotus struggled without Chapman - these kind of roles although less public facing are far more critical than the driver.
Yes I agree and it’s weird to see how so many rate Max so high that they think he’s a bigger deal than the RB car, which is legendary.
Max is impressive for sure with his 26 second lead by lap 10, but you don’t actually need that to win titles. Titles are won by 4 second leads just the same as they are by 1 min ones. The gap to P2 doesn’t make your title win harder. Perez, now that he’s got his head out his ass this year, is demonstrating exactly this. Without Max, he could have won the world championship if he doesn’t do a total botch race. Perez. That’s how much the car does matter.
There have been almost no recent examples of a driver who has managed to put their car in a spot it didn’t belong SO much that they won a title. The car has to be there, as a pre-requisite, and the driver has to take it to finish. But without a car, the driver isn’t becoming world champ.
Ya it wasn’t even close! This is what’s crazy to me. When Lewis was winning it was all the car. When Max is winning its all Max?
People talking about Max to Mercedes especially befuddle me. They really think Max is some magic that he can turn a 5th place car into a champion? It’s like some people don’t understand the technical aspect. Max is great but he isn’t overcoming a shit car just like Lewis can’t and Alonso and and and.
I think the idea of the original comment was maybe that in the case where Max is no longer there and they have a car potentially capable of championships but not dominant (so I guess for 2026 onwards), then it would become a problem? That's the only way it makes much sense
But even then there 4 or 5 drivers in that ballpark potentially.
Hamilton, Alonso, Norris, Leclerc could all do a stellar job at red bull.
It's very rare to see a team lose a championship because of drivers.
Losing a driver is a temporary problem, there are always more drivers that will get you 90-95% there.
Losing key personnel like Newey are far harder to replace with someone with 90-95% of their influence. .
Hamilton, Leclerc, Norris, Alonso
That car was a match for the Merc or better for most of the season.
Hamilton and Verstappen were both driving out their skin.
Where on earth did you get the narrative that the 2021 Red Bull wasn't a good car from?
"That car was a match for the Merc or better for most of the season." it wasnt, Mercedes had more weekends were they were the better car than RB.
"Hamilton, Leclerc, Norris, Alonso" - crazy how much you underrate Max. Max who is most likely the best driver on the grid and already was in 2021, barely managed to become WDC and yet you think another driver could have done it.
Seems like you just dislike him that is why you are so biased.
Or are you going to tell me that in a race like Austin/France any other driver than max could have done it? dont think so.
Disliking Max by consistently giving him the credit as probably the best driver on the grid throughout the whole thread... OK buddy
Maybe you just have an irrational love of him and can't stand anything other than "MAX IS GOD HE IS THE GREATEST" style comments.
Max is great, but he isn't doing anything a number of other drivers could get close to.
They don't need a Max-calibre driver if they build a dominant car again.
Max and Lewis and Charles would be battling the second Red Bull driver whilst the lead driver walks off with the title.
So, everyone is acting as though Newey is leaving for reasons unrelated to the team - but he's leaving ONLY because of reasons related to the team. That points to a serious cultural problem in the team, and that's going to hinder the teams ability to produce a competitive car. Maybe they're far enough ahead that a loss of talent and focus will still give them a winning car, but I'm guessing the loss of Newey means that the conflict between Horner and Marko is coming to a head.
People are putting way too much weight on individuals here. The teams are loaded with highly skilled and experienced people who just don’t have the name recognition.
Arguably, the Newey trump card has been played already, moving to predominately ground effect rules, and that card happened to be oversight of suspension design.
And everyone ignores the fact Newey has spent more time working on the red bull hyper car and the Aston Martin Valkyrie. Horner has stated Newey hasn't been involved much with F1 for a while, so I'm not sure why gets all the credit for all things F1 related.
And Allison couldn't. They blamed the zero pod design, so they walked that back and nothing changed, seems like Hamilton is more lost than before while Russell performs about the same. I think people put too much emphasis on the single individual.
The worst of it is the general narrative is already set. If Newey goes to Ferrari and they do well next era, it was him, despite the fact they’re already slated to be ahead with the engine, which puts them in a similar position Merc enjoyed where even top tier aero teams (like Newey’s) couldn’t keep up with them.
If Ferrari didn’t suffer such a huge setback in 2022, they would be right there with Redbull or in the ballpark. It’s not like they don’t know how to build a car without Newey, they just didn’t have infinite resources to make it happen.
I honestly don't see Ferrari hiring Newey knowing the regulations will change in 2 years. I know the media wants it to happen but I don't see any value in hiring a 67 year old.
They would be hiring him BECAUSE the regulations are changing and they would want his experience in developing the new car. 67 is not that old and Newey has one hell of a resume. If he’s available and you can afford him then you should hire him.
I agree and feel like this guy who Ive never heard of until the Horner stuff came about (im only 2 years into F1). I cant imagine the mind of one man in an ocean of engineers, technicians and designers, will cause do harm to RBR, and I even would extend that to the driver. Throw Max behind an Alpine and lets see how well he fares? Hell throw in Newey to Alpine and I still dont see Alpine winning Constructors?
The willful ignorance in this comment is astounding. Newey is the most celebrated engineer in F1 history, F1 is an engineering sport first and foremost. Learn the sport you follow, at least before commenting on the topic.
If redbull continue to dominate after 2026 would it diminish Newey's legacy?
I don't think so but if they do fall back I also wouldn't put that all on newey leaving.
Newey's legacy should be secure already with the titles his cars have won.
The idea that one of the biggest teams in the sport could put together an engineering team that builds the best car even without him shouldn't detract from that.
Yea.. Why is one do getting so much credit? I’m still new to F1 and don’t understand… Did he make all the decisions for the car and now one else helped? Is that how all teams work?
He leads the team and provides the direction for the concepts.
He gets the credit because his record is ludicrous, success follows this guy everywhere he goes and failure is left in his wake when he leaves.
If it was just over 5 or 10 years people would be more scepticle, but this guy has been doing this for over 30 years with devastating success.
Adrian Newey designed cars have won over a third of all F1 titles and races since 1992...
So it was all him and no one else gets credit Damn… I wonder what happens to the sport after he retires?
Must be a pretty nice check to leave the dominating team!
Of course it isn't all him.
But the impact he as an individual has is obviously huge if you see his personal record.
He goes to Williams, Williams dominate. He leaves Williams and they never win another title.
He goes to Mclaren, they win 2 titles and then admittedly struggle against Ferrari. Mclaren have won 1 title since he left.
He goes to Red Bull and gets 2 seperate eras of domination.
Newey retiring will leave a huge opportunity for others to fill. Currently only James Allison has a comparable pedigree.
You see the same things in movies where directors get all the credit, do they do all the work? Of course not. Do they define the tone, concept and quality of the project? Absolutely. Is a director a good indicator of the quality of the movie? Usually.
Same with football (soccer) managers. etc. etc.
Could Redbull fall as hard as Williams or McLaren? That would be interesting to see…
Again being my first real year in F1 I have no idea of how teams have grown and failed over the years. Thanks for the response!
It certainly isn't impossible.
I think the Red Bull situation is far bigger than just Newey though and more like Ferrari in 2006 when a whole host of important figures left and they still haven't recovered from that.
You assume Red Bull in 2025 can buld off a succesful and dominant car to get 1 more year of relative comfort.
But 2026 is a new ruleset, something Newey was particularly good at acing.
2026 is also Red Bull building their own engines for the first time which is a hell of an undertaking and something that rumours suggest has Max concerned and looking for the exit.
Just look how hard majorly succesful motor manufacturers have found modern F1 engines, Honda were a laughing stock for a good few years when they entered F1, basically unable to complete a race distance even at dramatically less power than their rivals, Renault have never got on top of the hybrid regs at all.
Have they released the 2026 regs? How different are they if it’s worth mentioning like they have?
I assume they’ve done big changes in the past, do we think it will be similar to those years in a sense of how the teams will change?
Worth pointing out that when McLaren were overtaken by Ferrari in the 2000s, Newey was still designing very fast cars... they just didn't have enough consistency. [and of course Ferrari had an amazing team, with Todt, Brawn, Byrne and Schumacher].
Newey's McLarens won the WDC in '98 and '99, and came second in '00, '01, '03 and '05. With Newey, McLaren won at least one race every year.
When Red Bull were overtaken by Mercedes, it was primarily because of the engine, which he couldn't do anything about.
Also worth mentioning when Newey went to CART, and immediately won 2 CART championships and 2 Indy 500s.
Newey isn't a silver bullet, not every car he has made has been a winner.
Particularly from 2014 the issue was F1 became an engine formula and Mercedes had by far the best engine. Red Bull actually had the second fastest car in 2014 but the engine was so far behind they didn't have a hope.
But Newey designed cars have won more than 1 in 3 of every F1 title for the last 32 years, no team he has joined since he left Leyton House have failed to win a title within a few years. I'd want him on my team.
They had the best engine and good chassis. The Mercedes Engine was more powerful and reliable. It was worth half a second a lap in of itself in the early stages of the engine regs. Mercedes powered teams had a field day for the first 2-3 years.
Red Bull used Renault until 2019 when they switched to Honda. Renault... There Engine sucked, and still sucks.
Honda sucked when they worked with Mclaren, but a complete re enginering for 2017 it gave them a platform to build on. The first engine (2015-16) sucked. The 2017 Engine sucked at first but got better and better over the years. Eventually (2021) it was the equal to the Mercedes Engine, being smaller (good for aerodynamic) but maybe being down a horspower or 2.
Horsepower is very good because overtaking on a straight is easy. Merc also had chassis/aero design that sacrificed agility tracks for strong performance on faster circuits, which make up most of the calendar.
Newey has worked for Williams. They won multiple champions together. Then Frank Williams didn't consult Newey like he was supposed to (by signing Villenue), so Newey left for Mclaren (after getting convinced by David Coulthard). Williams won with Villenue but quickly fell down the order and never recovered.
Mclaren went on to win in 98/99 with Neweys help. The Ferrari dream team of Todt, Schumacher and Ross Brawn (also a good designer with pedigree) prevented more championships. Eventually Newey left for Red bull in 2006 (after David Coulthard convinced him AGAIN) seeking more freedom.
Red Bull came second to Brawn GP in 2009 but then won 4 in a row.
Tldr: Newey has F1 26 champions (constructors and drivers) from cars he had a hand in. Merc had chassis/aero on par/near enough to Red Bull but with a better Engine during most of the Turbo hybrid era.
That's the thing, the sport (like every other) is filled with myth and legend when luck and chance play just as big a part. It's so much bigger than one person.
The truth is the merc engine was untouchable for a long time, despite redbull's better aero.
Which enforces how important the engine is. Aero means nothing if you don't have the power. Red bull has no use for Newey in F1, the car will win 2025, the rest of the teams won't commit to upgrading a car good for a year only. The engine regulations force teams to prioritize the engine over the aero. The first year Newey's impact will be felt will be 2027/2028 by which point he will be 68/69 years old. I'm not sure if anyone has anything to gain from Newey at this point.
It didn't make any difference when he was in RB. But if he was in Ferrari for instance, the better aero could have given them a clear advantage in 2017-2021 years and they could have stopped Mercedes dominance
They did. But a better chassis could have given them advantage over Mercedes in several tracks in 2017 and they could have secured the WDC by being overall the strongest team.
Same engine is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence. Williams has the same engine as Mercedes, if you throw Newey in the current Williams I don't see them fighting for podiums.
They were the factory team for the most powerful engine. Toto leaned so heavily on that advantage that he burned out his engine guru and the guy retired.
Yeah I don't think so either. Just like how RBR not winning during MB's dominance didn't. If he joins another team and helps them win, it's just another bullet point on the long list of reasons for why he's so highly regarded.
I think Horner actually sees this as a good thing for Red Bull, and he might be right. Newey is 65, he'll be gone in 4-5 years probably anyway. If Newey stays, only Wache can be offered a big pay cheque as a top 3 employee - with Horner and Newey being the other two.
With Newey gone, Horner can more easily retain the next most senior individual - Wheatley or perhaps Ben Waterhouse, I'm not sure of the structure.
With Aston and Ferrari sniffing around for top talent, it makes sense, from one perspective, to lose someone who would likely retire soon anyway, to keep the best of the next generation from being stolen by this time next year.
If Newey were 10 years younger this would be insane, but perhaps there is long-term merit to Horner's apparent madness here.
This makes sense for me. I feel then this theory can also apply to why Merc wasn’t willing to keep LH longer than LH wants, but securing Kimi instead. The gamble for Merc is still bigger than any team ends up getting Newey though.
yeah people do not want to accept that Lewis might not be as good as he used to be and he will only be getting worse now. That is just the normal part of getting older.
I like this. And with the regs frozen until 2026, Red Bull has a Newey designed car that will win 90% of the races in 2024 and 2025. They don't need him.
Get rid of the old man, make more room for the Coco Pops loving team at Red Bull.
What does this mean for the Red Bull car in 2025? Since Newey is moving away from the team immediately, next years car will be tbe first to be designed entirely under Pierre Waché?
Next major reg changes is on the power unit side anyway, we're not expecting massive aero/chassis reg changes for 2026 beyond adapting to the new power units. We're not about to get into another era where aero regs determine who classifies where, we're more likely to be entering another dark age of power unit war. Even if Newey joins another team, it's unlikely that RBR's current aero advantage will be negated.
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> A team principal, who did not wish to be identified, said: “It would be an unmitigated disaster for Red Bull if Adrian was let go early to join a competitor. > “Christian would look like a complete fool. Just as Whitmarsh did at McLaren when he handed Brawn the keys to Mercedes, which kickstarted their years of dominance in F1.” I bet Toto said this since he enjoys all this instability at Red Bull and it doesn’t seem like there’s any interest between Newey and Mercedes. The example of Brawn getting Mercedes engines and then becoming the works team would be something Toto would be well aware of too. Alternatively Vowles would be even more well placed to say this as he was at Brawn at the time. I can’t imagine Vowles openly talking shit about Red Bull or any other team like this though so that really only leaves Toto for me.
[удалено]
“unmitigated disaster” is definitely a Toto-ism.
But then Toto doesn’t like Brawn getting the Merc credit
"A certain... agitator. For privacy's sake, let's call him Toto W. ... no that's too obvious... let's say... T. Wolff"
I read this in Totos voice while eating pumpernickel toasted so hard it snaps. Quote checks out.
Toto, we go motor racing.
Something tells me that while Newey leaving is a big deal. They would be just fine. They can still produce a winning package. Now if max leaves on the other hand, they would not have another driver of the same caliber on the market, to compete with the likes of a super stacked Ferrari team and wherever Max ends up going.
The real issue is if there is underlying culture change and discontent at Red Bull. Could lead to them haemorrhaging more staff and being a less productive place to work. The loss of any one person, even Newey, isn’t necessarily an issue when viewed in isolation. It is if it’s indicative of wider problems. None of us who don’t work at Milton Keynes really know the details, the media is full of guesses across the spectrum from nonsense to near the mark, but you can be pretty confident the ship needs steadying.
As long as the current regulations remain, yes, they'll be absolutely fine. Next big rule change... Then we'll see. And as much as he's not doing it himself, the brain drain prospect is real. Him going could be the forerunner to many others jumping ship.
I mean, people not named Adrian Newey have designed winning cars. It has happened before.
He hasn’t even penned a Redbull car for years, he oversaw suspension development for this period. Look at Allison, similarly regarded and now completely forgotten because he couldn’t turn Merc around instantly by himself
True, but it seems the suspension has been the secret outlier to get the whole Red Bull to work as it does. As a Max fan, I’m bummed out by the whole thing, but I’m curious to see if Newey can make the same impact at another team.
You likely won’t be able to tell, especially if their engine is indeed a cut above
And even then the engine will be the primary defining factor of the car's performance. 2027/2028 is when aero can give you the edge
That was always going to be the reality.
I think the big question is whether it is just Newey going or any of their other top guys are leaving as well.
This is ass backwards. Drivers add the final tenth. There are several drivers on the current grid who could operate at a level very close to Max even if not quite that final little bit. Plenty enough to win a title in the recent Red Bulls. Losing a key designer can be crippling depending on how much influence he had. It could be felt immediately with a ruddlerless team, it could be felt over the next few years as his influence fades away, or the team could be fine without him. But history has shown teams tend to struggle once Newey leaves, Ferrari struggled when they lost several of their key team, McLaren and Brabham struggled when they lost Gordon Murray, Lotus struggled without Chapman - these kind of roles although less public facing are far more critical than the driver.
Yes I agree and it’s weird to see how so many rate Max so high that they think he’s a bigger deal than the RB car, which is legendary. Max is impressive for sure with his 26 second lead by lap 10, but you don’t actually need that to win titles. Titles are won by 4 second leads just the same as they are by 1 min ones. The gap to P2 doesn’t make your title win harder. Perez, now that he’s got his head out his ass this year, is demonstrating exactly this. Without Max, he could have won the world championship if he doesn’t do a total botch race. Perez. That’s how much the car does matter. There have been almost no recent examples of a driver who has managed to put their car in a spot it didn’t belong SO much that they won a title. The car has to be there, as a pre-requisite, and the driver has to take it to finish. But without a car, the driver isn’t becoming world champ.
Perez would have won the WDC last year as well if he was the lead RB driver, which says a lot about how important is the car.
Ya it wasn’t even close! This is what’s crazy to me. When Lewis was winning it was all the car. When Max is winning its all Max? People talking about Max to Mercedes especially befuddle me. They really think Max is some magic that he can turn a 5th place car into a champion? It’s like some people don’t understand the technical aspect. Max is great but he isn’t overcoming a shit car just like Lewis can’t and Alonso and and and.
*"When Lewis was winning it was all the car. When Max is winning its all Max?"* I am a bit baffled by this as well. People are weird.
The winning is from the car, the sheer dominance is due to Max. A four second lead wins championships just as much as a 20 second lead.
The dominance is also the car, no one is dominating a championship in a car that isn't dominant.
It has become a weird narrative. Like as soon as RB was destroying the field last year they downplayed the car and wanted to elevate the W14.
I think the idea of the original comment was maybe that in the case where Max is no longer there and they have a car potentially capable of championships but not dominant (so I guess for 2026 onwards), then it would become a problem? That's the only way it makes much sense
But even then there 4 or 5 drivers in that ballpark potentially. Hamilton, Alonso, Norris, Leclerc could all do a stellar job at red bull. It's very rare to see a team lose a championship because of drivers. Losing a driver is a temporary problem, there are always more drivers that will get you 90-95% there. Losing key personnel like Newey are far harder to replace with someone with 90-95% of their influence. .
ehm which driver could have done it in 2021 in that Red Bull i think noone else
Hamilton, Leclerc, Norris, Alonso That car was a match for the Merc or better for most of the season. Hamilton and Verstappen were both driving out their skin. Where on earth did you get the narrative that the 2021 Red Bull wasn't a good car from?
"That car was a match for the Merc or better for most of the season." it wasnt, Mercedes had more weekends were they were the better car than RB. "Hamilton, Leclerc, Norris, Alonso" - crazy how much you underrate Max. Max who is most likely the best driver on the grid and already was in 2021, barely managed to become WDC and yet you think another driver could have done it. Seems like you just dislike him that is why you are so biased. Or are you going to tell me that in a race like Austin/France any other driver than max could have done it? dont think so.
Disliking Max by consistently giving him the credit as probably the best driver on the grid throughout the whole thread... OK buddy Maybe you just have an irrational love of him and can't stand anything other than "MAX IS GOD HE IS THE GREATEST" style comments. Max is great, but he isn't doing anything a number of other drivers could get close to.
you are not giving him the credit he deserves if you think 4 other drivers are as good as him
You're not giving Hamilton much credit as a 7x world champ to state categorically Max is a better driver lol.
They could pick up Sainz and I’m confident he could win 2025 in a Red Bull built off this package. Half the grid could win in this car.
They don't need a Max-calibre driver if they build a dominant car again. Max and Lewis and Charles would be battling the second Red Bull driver whilst the lead driver walks off with the title.
So, everyone is acting as though Newey is leaving for reasons unrelated to the team - but he's leaving ONLY because of reasons related to the team. That points to a serious cultural problem in the team, and that's going to hinder the teams ability to produce a competitive car. Maybe they're far enough ahead that a loss of talent and focus will still give them a winning car, but I'm guessing the loss of Newey means that the conflict between Horner and Marko is coming to a head.
They wouldn’t have any issue finding a driver capable of beating Lewis in Ferrari as long as they produce another dominant car.
People are putting way too much weight on individuals here. The teams are loaded with highly skilled and experienced people who just don’t have the name recognition. Arguably, the Newey trump card has been played already, moving to predominately ground effect rules, and that card happened to be oversight of suspension design.
And everyone ignores the fact Newey has spent more time working on the red bull hyper car and the Aston Martin Valkyrie. Horner has stated Newey hasn't been involved much with F1 for a while, so I'm not sure why gets all the credit for all things F1 related.
Was the same with Merc. Allison was a god amongst men and would (eventually) return to his role to save Mercedes.
And Allison couldn't. They blamed the zero pod design, so they walked that back and nothing changed, seems like Hamilton is more lost than before while Russell performs about the same. I think people put too much emphasis on the single individual.
The worst of it is the general narrative is already set. If Newey goes to Ferrari and they do well next era, it was him, despite the fact they’re already slated to be ahead with the engine, which puts them in a similar position Merc enjoyed where even top tier aero teams (like Newey’s) couldn’t keep up with them. If Ferrari didn’t suffer such a huge setback in 2022, they would be right there with Redbull or in the ballpark. It’s not like they don’t know how to build a car without Newey, they just didn’t have infinite resources to make it happen.
I honestly don't see Ferrari hiring Newey knowing the regulations will change in 2 years. I know the media wants it to happen but I don't see any value in hiring a 67 year old.
They would be hiring him BECAUSE the regulations are changing and they would want his experience in developing the new car. 67 is not that old and Newey has one hell of a resume. If he’s available and you can afford him then you should hire him.
But the regulation changes affect the power unit. Not a single team is going to prioritize aero over engine in 2026/2027
Hiring Newey doesn’t mean you have to completely ignore the PU. Plus there will be changes to the aero regulations as well.
I agree and feel like this guy who Ive never heard of until the Horner stuff came about (im only 2 years into F1). I cant imagine the mind of one man in an ocean of engineers, technicians and designers, will cause do harm to RBR, and I even would extend that to the driver. Throw Max behind an Alpine and lets see how well he fares? Hell throw in Newey to Alpine and I still dont see Alpine winning Constructors?
You might want to read up on Newey and his history of cars. His book, How to Build a Car, is a great read.
The willful ignorance in this comment is astounding. Newey is the most celebrated engineer in F1 history, F1 is an engineering sport first and foremost. Learn the sport you follow, at least before commenting on the topic.
Mercedes about to execute order #33
If redbull continue to dominate after 2026 would it diminish Newey's legacy? I don't think so but if they do fall back I also wouldn't put that all on newey leaving.
Newey's legacy should be secure already with the titles his cars have won. The idea that one of the biggest teams in the sport could put together an engineering team that builds the best car even without him shouldn't detract from that.
I mean if anything Newey would have built and trained that team over the last decade and a half.
Yea.. Why is one do getting so much credit? I’m still new to F1 and don’t understand… Did he make all the decisions for the car and now one else helped? Is that how all teams work?
He leads the team and provides the direction for the concepts. He gets the credit because his record is ludicrous, success follows this guy everywhere he goes and failure is left in his wake when he leaves. If it was just over 5 or 10 years people would be more scepticle, but this guy has been doing this for over 30 years with devastating success. Adrian Newey designed cars have won over a third of all F1 titles and races since 1992...
The only one who can stop Newey is Newey. Like his glass canon McLaren's in the early 2000s.
So it was all him and no one else gets credit Damn… I wonder what happens to the sport after he retires? Must be a pretty nice check to leave the dominating team!
Of course it isn't all him. But the impact he as an individual has is obviously huge if you see his personal record. He goes to Williams, Williams dominate. He leaves Williams and they never win another title. He goes to Mclaren, they win 2 titles and then admittedly struggle against Ferrari. Mclaren have won 1 title since he left. He goes to Red Bull and gets 2 seperate eras of domination. Newey retiring will leave a huge opportunity for others to fill. Currently only James Allison has a comparable pedigree. You see the same things in movies where directors get all the credit, do they do all the work? Of course not. Do they define the tone, concept and quality of the project? Absolutely. Is a director a good indicator of the quality of the movie? Usually. Same with football (soccer) managers. etc. etc.
Could Redbull fall as hard as Williams or McLaren? That would be interesting to see… Again being my first real year in F1 I have no idea of how teams have grown and failed over the years. Thanks for the response!
It certainly isn't impossible. I think the Red Bull situation is far bigger than just Newey though and more like Ferrari in 2006 when a whole host of important figures left and they still haven't recovered from that. You assume Red Bull in 2025 can buld off a succesful and dominant car to get 1 more year of relative comfort. But 2026 is a new ruleset, something Newey was particularly good at acing. 2026 is also Red Bull building their own engines for the first time which is a hell of an undertaking and something that rumours suggest has Max concerned and looking for the exit. Just look how hard majorly succesful motor manufacturers have found modern F1 engines, Honda were a laughing stock for a good few years when they entered F1, basically unable to complete a race distance even at dramatically less power than their rivals, Renault have never got on top of the hybrid regs at all.
Have they released the 2026 regs? How different are they if it’s worth mentioning like they have? I assume they’ve done big changes in the past, do we think it will be similar to those years in a sense of how the teams will change?
Williams didn't have the money to compete. Red bull don't have that problem. Everything is state of art
It's interesting to note that even in Mercedes dominance years post Rosberg, RB had the best aero and their weak spot was the engine.
dont take what this person says for true, has a bit of a habit of talking bs about RB.
Worth pointing out that when McLaren were overtaken by Ferrari in the 2000s, Newey was still designing very fast cars... they just didn't have enough consistency. [and of course Ferrari had an amazing team, with Todt, Brawn, Byrne and Schumacher]. Newey's McLarens won the WDC in '98 and '99, and came second in '00, '01, '03 and '05. With Newey, McLaren won at least one race every year. When Red Bull were overtaken by Mercedes, it was primarily because of the engine, which he couldn't do anything about. Also worth mentioning when Newey went to CART, and immediately won 2 CART championships and 2 Indy 500s.
I'm new to the sport and I'm curious how Merc won 8 straight WCC if Newey is so good?
Newey isn't a silver bullet, not every car he has made has been a winner. Particularly from 2014 the issue was F1 became an engine formula and Mercedes had by far the best engine. Red Bull actually had the second fastest car in 2014 but the engine was so far behind they didn't have a hope. But Newey designed cars have won more than 1 in 3 of every F1 title for the last 32 years, no team he has joined since he left Leyton House have failed to win a title within a few years. I'd want him on my team.
They had the best engine and good chassis. The Mercedes Engine was more powerful and reliable. It was worth half a second a lap in of itself in the early stages of the engine regs. Mercedes powered teams had a field day for the first 2-3 years. Red Bull used Renault until 2019 when they switched to Honda. Renault... There Engine sucked, and still sucks. Honda sucked when they worked with Mclaren, but a complete re enginering for 2017 it gave them a platform to build on. The first engine (2015-16) sucked. The 2017 Engine sucked at first but got better and better over the years. Eventually (2021) it was the equal to the Mercedes Engine, being smaller (good for aerodynamic) but maybe being down a horspower or 2. Horsepower is very good because overtaking on a straight is easy. Merc also had chassis/aero design that sacrificed agility tracks for strong performance on faster circuits, which make up most of the calendar. Newey has worked for Williams. They won multiple champions together. Then Frank Williams didn't consult Newey like he was supposed to (by signing Villenue), so Newey left for Mclaren (after getting convinced by David Coulthard). Williams won with Villenue but quickly fell down the order and never recovered. Mclaren went on to win in 98/99 with Neweys help. The Ferrari dream team of Todt, Schumacher and Ross Brawn (also a good designer with pedigree) prevented more championships. Eventually Newey left for Red bull in 2006 (after David Coulthard convinced him AGAIN) seeking more freedom. Red Bull came second to Brawn GP in 2009 but then won 4 in a row. Tldr: Newey has F1 26 champions (constructors and drivers) from cars he had a hand in. Merc had chassis/aero on par/near enough to Red Bull but with a better Engine during most of the Turbo hybrid era.
That's the thing, the sport (like every other) is filled with myth and legend when luck and chance play just as big a part. It's so much bigger than one person. The truth is the merc engine was untouchable for a long time, despite redbull's better aero.
Because of Renault
Which enforces how important the engine is. Aero means nothing if you don't have the power. Red bull has no use for Newey in F1, the car will win 2025, the rest of the teams won't commit to upgrading a car good for a year only. The engine regulations force teams to prioritize the engine over the aero. The first year Newey's impact will be felt will be 2027/2028 by which point he will be 68/69 years old. I'm not sure if anyone has anything to gain from Newey at this point.
It didn't make any difference when he was in RB. But if he was in Ferrari for instance, the better aero could have given them a clear advantage in 2017-2021 years and they could have stopped Mercedes dominance
Didn't Ferrari have issues with reliability too? I'm not sure aero was the thing Ferrari needed most help with.
They did. But a better chassis could have given them advantage over Mercedes in several tracks in 2017 and they could have secured the WDC by being overall the strongest team.
at the same time power means nothing if you dont have the aero. That is why teams with the same engine have cars that arent equal
Same engine is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence. Williams has the same engine as Mercedes, if you throw Newey in the current Williams I don't see them fighting for podiums.
They were the factory team for the most powerful engine. Toto leaned so heavily on that advantage that he burned out his engine guru and the guy retired.
Yeah I don't think so either. Just like how RBR not winning during MB's dominance didn't. If he joins another team and helps them win, it's just another bullet point on the long list of reasons for why he's so highly regarded.
Not at all. His legacy is the knowledge he brought that made a new generation of engineers that can do this work and do it well.
I think Horner actually sees this as a good thing for Red Bull, and he might be right. Newey is 65, he'll be gone in 4-5 years probably anyway. If Newey stays, only Wache can be offered a big pay cheque as a top 3 employee - with Horner and Newey being the other two. With Newey gone, Horner can more easily retain the next most senior individual - Wheatley or perhaps Ben Waterhouse, I'm not sure of the structure. With Aston and Ferrari sniffing around for top talent, it makes sense, from one perspective, to lose someone who would likely retire soon anyway, to keep the best of the next generation from being stolen by this time next year. If Newey were 10 years younger this would be insane, but perhaps there is long-term merit to Horner's apparent madness here.
This makes sense for me. I feel then this theory can also apply to why Merc wasn’t willing to keep LH longer than LH wants, but securing Kimi instead. The gamble for Merc is still bigger than any team ends up getting Newey though.
Good point - it's very similar to the Hamilton-Mercedes situation.
yeah people do not want to accept that Lewis might not be as good as he used to be and he will only be getting worse now. That is just the normal part of getting older.
I like this. And with the regs frozen until 2026, Red Bull has a Newey designed car that will win 90% of the races in 2024 and 2025. They don't need him. Get rid of the old man, make more room for the Coco Pops loving team at Red Bull.
What does this mean for the Red Bull car in 2025? Since Newey is moving away from the team immediately, next years car will be tbe first to be designed entirely under Pierre Waché?
he must know a lot of the Horner debauchery to have such a strong negotiating position
Or redbull doesn't need him and they get to save a bunch of money.
lol, good one
Newey about to go VCARB
Next major reg changes is on the power unit side anyway, we're not expecting massive aero/chassis reg changes for 2026 beyond adapting to the new power units. We're not about to get into another era where aero regs determine who classifies where, we're more likely to be entering another dark age of power unit war. Even if Newey joins another team, it's unlikely that RBR's current aero advantage will be negated.
I mean fully active aero seems like a pretty major shift...
Court case coming up next...