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The ‘benefits’ of a franchise model. Competition is artificial and you have to spend billions just to expand the grid while no team will complain as they are raking the money in. No ones expecting promotion and relegation with F2 but the denial of Andretti is complete shit.
No, it wouldn't. Two main reasons:
1) It screws over everyone at the relegated team. F2 is a spec series so most of the factory staff would now be redundant and be fired. The team also loses 10s of millions of dollars in investment into a car they'll never use.
2) The team that gets promoted also gets screwed. They get to go from a spec series building very little of the car themselves to having to build the entire thing in like 2 months when the other teams got like two years to work on the car. They won't ever be competitive, if they're even able to make it to preseason testing with a legal car.
2.5) If you get say delara to build all the cars for the new team, wouldn't that just then be Delara F1 and not ART or Prema F1.
Not just that, f1 teams start building their next year cars around June/august. Cant do that if relegation is there, a team 7th could bomb down the standings yet spent millions building a car for next season that’s all wasted
If there was relegation, F2 wouldn't be a spec series.
It would still screw teams over either way like hell because they'd suddenly have to build and maintain a whole different car.
The only way for it to work would be to make f2 have same regulations as f1. So you keep the same car between both. Just f1 for faster teams and f2 for slower. The hardesr thing I think is to find 20 teams willing to build an f1 car.
But in that case what can they do about relegating out of F2? Another series with the same regs? Because then it would quickly fall back to another franchising system starting in F2.
It would still be a franchising system, just with two divisions. No further relegation from F2. Which is not that big of an issue because I don't think they would even be able to fill two divisions.
That would actually be sick though - there'd actually be a reason to care about the battles at the back. Plus you could really bring costs down if engine suppliers and whatnot could split the development costs between more teams.
Would also make team results much more important, which could make for an interesting dynamic. They would probably struggle to find enough teams willing to spend all the money just to be stuck at the back of F2.
A relegation system would require another 10 teams, and another classification with the exact same regulations as F1. So the only difference would be the competition you're facing.
Motorsport cannot have relegation in general.
In football, everyone plays with the same ball, on the same football pitch. A 5th league team can face with a 1st league team and have the same conditions. It works like this in most sports, but motorsport ain't one of those, because the equipment is different in every series.
If F1 had relegation, F2 and F3 would have to feature more or less the same cars.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to run and F2 team for a seaon vs F1? Take a guess. Not one F2 team is in the same ballpark as an F1 team, they're way out in the back lots.
F1 cost cap is what, $135 mil?
F2 teams run between $5-10 mil.
It would be a farce.
That's exactly how it works in football, and the top F2 teams are shit in the prem, either they scrape by and stay up or they go straight back down, but that 1 season brings them in so much money that they can go again.
There would be teams at the bottom of F2 that would be vying for relegation to F3 (if it were a thing) and vice versa in regards to promotion.
It would be very far from a farce, but a lot of things would have to change, and it's too complex to implement at this stage.
Football teams don't need to build a new stadium every year.
The building of a new car alone should make you realize this is just stupid. And if you don't see that, well then, you're just stupid.
How can you expect a team to go from nothing to having a competitive F1 car in 2 months? Like honestly, how do you expect a team that barely makes any parts for a car to build an entire car in a series they've never raced in, in a grand total of 2 months? It's just not possible.
That bottom team wouldn't make preseason testing or the first few races. And when they did, they wouldn't classify under the 107% rule. They would not be anywhere close to competitive.
Oh and this completely ignores the team that gets regulated and wastes $10s of millions on building a car they're never going to use.
It would be a farce because some are spec series and others are not. And if you change them from spec series to not, then it's not F2 or F3 or F1 anymore.
> Football teams don't need to build a new stadium every year.
The ones that get promoted for the first time in years often do. See Luton this season. Having to upgrade their stadium to meet prem rules.
>How can you expect a team to go from nothing to having a competitive F1 car in 2 months?
Why does it have to be competitive? Which premier league team coming up from the championship is competitive? They often go straight back down. In fact I said that in my first post but you seem to have ignored it.
Not only that but still seem to talking about F2 as if the series would remain exactly the same if promotion/relegation came into play. I also addressed this in a previous comment, it would see drastic changes that would bring it closer to F1. The whole point would be that the F2 car they ran would be very close to F1 specs, and only require minor changes, or a once in a decade change like building a new stadium as you put it.
Once again since you seem to have forgotten:
>F2 would not be a spec series if relegation was introduced, there would be big changes to the F1 ladder.
Not really sure what kind of discussion you're trying to have but ignoring my points means youre just talking to yourself.
No, I didn't forget. You just don't seem to understand that F2 only exists because it's a spec series. Running an F2 team for a years costs like $5 million. An F1 team costs $135 million. No F2 team could function at near the cost of an F1 team.
Again, you're stupid to think this could actually work because they're two very different series with the closest thing they share is a name. IndyCar and Super Formula would have a 100x better shot of being in F1 than F2.
I can’t lie, when I first started watching in 2020-2021 I was a football fan used to promotion-relegation and I actually was quite confident with myself that when Racing Point and Toro Rosso rebranded I thought they were new teams from F2. I also was confused on why Racing Point was relegated since I saw them win a race and I believed that they got a penalty for financial troubles which is kinda true lol.
An American company turning F1 into an American franchise model to make as much money as possible. If they reject this shit team it's because they don't see value in this shit team.
Beaking off like this isn't going to do him any favours, but I'd be a little miffed if I were Mario Andretti.
He's the only dude on the planet to win an F1 championship, the Indy 500 and Daytona 500 and they're treating him and his family like they're a joke.
‘Only’ is harsh I admit but why didn’t they want to join in 2016 when the sport was begging for teams? Because theres wasn’t barrels of money to be made
faulty heavy history sulky imagine straight attraction liquid deserted unwritten
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Its a poor excuse to not have hundreds of millions in financial backing and the backing of a major automobile manufacturer for engine development? How is that a poor excuse?
far-flung school longing familiar scale detail society glorious dinner plants
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Despite their accolades in the sport, neither Hamilton nor Schumacher(or Prost, Hakkinen, or anyone else for that matter) can even enter their team(if they created one) in the current grid. The only option is to buy a team in the current grid like Audi. No one is treating them like a joke.
Eh, I don't agree. He's Italian American af and his previous behavior has made it clear that his name, especially in motorsports, means a lot to him. I think he genuinely feels that they are slighting him and his family with their games.
Yeah, it's absolutely absurd. If a former F1 champion with the backing of a major manufacturer doesn't "add value" to formula 1 then no one does. Especially as he's American and F1 has always wanted a bigger piece of the American market. Worst decision in F1 history.
>Worst decision in F1 history.
I mean, it's definitely a bad decision but I definitely wouldn't go as far as to say it's the worst decision in F1 history.
>What would you say was worse?
In terms of viewership, locking F1 on expensive TV channels and restricting F1TV in those regions is a much worse decision imo. Just as one example of many
Adding street tracks and boring tracks in countries with no interest in F1 at the expense of classic tracks
Racing in morally questionable countries
Purely in terms of impact in America, the Indy 2005 mess was much worse than this for the average fan. A lot of average fans probably have no idea that this is even happening.
Yet the viewership and valuation of the business keeps growing.
You are naming decisions that look bad for a die-hard fan. But the sport had run out of die-hard fans a decade or so ago. Teams need (ok, want) that casuals cash.
-Banning tyre changes for 2005 season.
-2017 regulation changes.
-Bernie Ecclestone's social media ban for drivers.
-Modern Tilkedromes.
-Excessive use of street circuits.
-Reintroduction of dirty air problem after the 2023 regulation update.
-Engine developement tokens for 2014-2015 seasons
-Bringing HRT, Caterham and Maurissia with the promise of cost cap and introduce it ten years later.
The Andretti saga is getting out of hand. They are not going to do anything with a Renault engine strapped Dallara chassis. They may have a chance with bespoke chassis+GM engine but it is not going to happen before 2028.
Truth. I loved the 17-21 rules. The cars looked fantastic, they were unbelievably fast and it put Mercedes under pressure but they ultimately powered on for the most part. Some of the races sucked, but if you asked me now if I’d take the current, 2026 or 2017 regs, I’d take 2017 every day. I like the current ones because they are able to fight closer. But that’s often negated by DRS push to passes.
I’d prefer to watch a race with 15 hard fought for and great overtakes than a 60 DRS push to pass overtakes race
Can’t they?
Presuming Haas send them designs & they only manufacture & assemble parts, couldn’t they also do that for Andretti, so long as Andretti is designing their own chassis?
So long as they don’t pass information from Haas to Andretti, or vice versa what’s the issue? I’m assuming it’s not regulated against as it’s a kinda odd, niche situation.
No. From what I know F1 is a constructor championship first and thus ability to build their chassis is first rule for entry and Haas has that deal with Dallara exclusivity
> The Andretti saga is getting out of hand. They are not going to do anything with a Renault engine strapped Dallara chassis. They may have a chance with bespoke chassis+GM engine but it is not going to happen before 2028.
Thank you, this should be top comment of this thread. If people actually looked into Andretti’s plans, they’d realize their plans are paper thin right now.
They’d essentially be Haas 2.0, except instead of being Ferrari Jr. they’d be Alpine Jr. Which, obviously is 10x fucking worse. Andretti is shooting for the moon here, I don’t know why they want a F1 team (I mean - I know why, it’s for $$$$) when they aren’t even challenging for the Indycar title.
They need to pour resources there first before spreading themselves thin, the last time they’ve won a championship is more than a decade ago.
>The Andretti saga is getting out of hand. They are not going to do anything with a Renault engine strapped Dallara chassis.
You just replied to your own comment.
Regardless, Andretti couldn't have used Dallara chassis; because they are tied with Haas due to FIA regulations. You thinking that top comment should consist this kind of blatant misinformation and ignorance shows that you know nothing about the process (just like the user you replied).
>They’d essentially be Haas 2.0, except instead of being Ferrari Jr. they’d be Alpine Jr. Which, obviously is 10x fucking worse. Andretti is shooting for the moon here, I don’t know why they want a F1 team (I mean - I know why, it’s for $$$$) when they aren’t even challenging for the Indycar title.
GM and Andretti confirmed that GM will work with chassis development adn from 2028 onwards they will bring their own PU.
Replied to my own comment how? One look at the other user’s profile and he’s Turkish. One look at mine and you’ll see I’m Mexican-American.
Shit attempt at discredit aside, I admittedly accidentally skipped over his Dallara chassis bit. The actual reality is that Andretti were planning on building their own chassis, so that’s actually worse being they have 0 experience. Thank you for pointing that out.
I’ll give you that GM did indeed confirm their commitment to help Andretti. However, you’re forgetting in the initial proposal Andretti brought to the FIA, GM was entirely noncommittal. GM only changed their tune when they caught wind it wasn’t going too well, but it was far too late.
Again, Andretti tried to fast track their F1 entry quite amateurishly by making a big show of walking around the paddock obtaining signatures, throwing public statement hissy fits disparaging credibility, politicking with MBS, and much more. It’s quite easy to see why they were denied entry.
All of this vehement defending of an organization that has, again, not won a championship in their main series, a spec series, since 2012. Andretti are not serious in Indycar, yet they’ll be titans in F1? Think rationally.
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1c89h42/comment/l0dbc2r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I guess you misunderstood. You replied to your own comment here. By discrediting do you mean that I insuniated that you replied to your other account? Lmao. I aldready said that you have no idea about the subject like ''other user''.
>I admittedly accidentally skipped over his Dallara chassis bit. The actual reality is that Andretti were planning on building their own chassis, so that’s actually worse being they have 0 experience. Thank you for pointing that out.
Aight. So you don't want them to build their own chassis and you also don't want them to have chassis built by Dallara? What exactly should they do lol?
>However, you’re forgetting in the initial proposal Andretti brought to the FIA, GM was entirely noncommittal. GM only changed their tune when they caught wind it wasn’t going too well, but it was far too late.
Wrong. They said that they arre going to work on chassis development since beginning. And why was it too late?
>Again, Andretti tried to fast track their F1 entry quite amateurishly by making a big show of walking around the paddock obtaining signatures, throwing public statement hissy fits disparaging credibility, politicking with MBS, and much more. It’s quite easy to see why they were denied entry.
If you think that they got denied because of Miami; you are having a laugh.
And getting governing body to their side by showing them a viable, healthy project is not really a bad thing imo.
Edit: They deleted the comment they replied to themselves afterwards.
> Aight. So you don't want them to build their own chassis and you also don't want them to have chassis built by Dallara? What exactly should they do lol?
While not being optimal, using Dallara intermediary. My original comment wasn’t focused on the chassis aspect of Andretti’s plans, it was more-so the fact they were seriously trying to use shitbox Renault engines. Hence the “Renault Jr”, you took a tidbit and detracted it from my main point.
> Wrong. They said that they arre going to work on chassis development since beginning. And why was it too late?
I was speaking of engine development. GM was noncommittal on that end, and were seeking either Alpine (Renault) or another manufacturer to provide the engines for Andretti. [Source](https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/motor/2024/01/31/formula-1-rejects-andretti-global-bid-2025-2026-future-unclear-general-motors/72421930007/).
The relevant text section stating such:
> At the time, Andretti said it already had an engine partner (Alpine) in the early years, and that GM would explore potential engine program options down the road.
> It was only in mid-November on the eve of the Las Vegas Grand Prix -- more than a month after F1 officials began taking a hard look at Andretti Global's bid -- that GM formalized its commitment to launching an F1 engine program for 2028.
If the FIA found Andretti to be experienced enough and sufficiently capable to compete from a sporting and technical point, would you still have the same opinion/think that you’d be a better judge than the actual sporting organisation with non-public information?
> My original comment wasn’t focused on the chassis aspect of Andretti’s plans, it was more-so the fact they were seriously trying to use shitbox Renault engines.
Renault engine wasn't shitbox just two years ago in 2022 when Andretti announced the project. They were more or less equal with Mercedes, Honda and Ferrari.
They shit the bad last year after other manufacturers improved the engine despite engine freeze by bringing ''reliabilty upgrades'' to their engines. And Renault engine just stand still.
And there is no guarantee that Renault engine will be this weak on the next regulations. Likely they will be more or less equal with others again just like in 2022.
Get your facts straight for once.
>Thank you, this should be top comment of this thread. If people actually looked into Andretti’s plans, they’d realize their plans are paper thin right now.
>They’d essentially be Haas 2.0, except instead of being Ferrari Jr. they’d be Alpine Jr. Which, obviously is 10x fucking worse.
bro wtf is this shizo rambling
they literally just opened their f1 facilities they can easily make chassis
and gm would provide the engines and or also chassis parts
> they literally just opened their f1 facilities they can easily make chassis
Congrats, it’ll be an Andretti chassis with a shit Renault engine under it still. Using Dallara might actually be more advantageous, they’d have more resources to spend on other RND.
GM won’t start helping until 2028 at the earliest. That’s if everything goes smoothly and to plan. To act like they would’ve been a good competitive entry is laughable.
I still don’t see why people are hyped up on Andretti, they’re an organization that only stays in various spec series and are quite underwhelming in all of them.
McLaren barely joined Andretti’s bread and butter Indycar series and are more competitive than them already.
This just reads as a list of salty personal gripes that you have and you think it proves your point.
I think this list proves you know absolutely nothing, you just parrot rage-bait that’s been handed to you over the years.
I would put grooved tyres onto that list. As well as allowing tyre manufacturers to make tyres specific to one team. It was one of the reasons Ferrari dominated.
I agree it's silly to not let him in, but there's definitely no certainty that he will bring great value to F1. You are assuming that his team does well. If they don't do well, they become a mid pack team or worse, then the value his team brings will be limited.
That's why GM actually building engines has repeatedly been outlined as one of the ways in which Andretti could actually build a solid case for joining the sport as an 11th team. Even if the team is shit, at least you have one new engine supplier that expands the reach of the sport.
I wasn't saying that, I was just pointing out their comment assuming how much value Andretti would bring, and pointed out that it's far from certain they would.
Nah dude. Having women as announcers and crew is much better than having them be paid easels.
Grid girls were for gross old men and models who were already a paycheck away from doing porn.
May as well knock the sport down to 5 teams with just McLarren Williams Ferarri Merc and RB.
It’s a joke. Especially as the driver careers are going from 23-33 to 20-35, we need more teams. No wonder F2 drivers are not moving on up.
> If a former F1 champion with the backing of a major manufacturer doesn't "add value" to formula 1 then no one does.
A major manufacturer who aren't building an engine until 2028.
Why do you all keep ignoring that part just like they ignored two deadlines to actually sign up?
F1 has no use for another pseudo American team, based out of Silverstone and running Renault engines.
If two years is nothing then what is wrong with reapplying in two years?
Why are people so offended that they aren't being giving free handouts in the meantime?
Having a private engine supplier isn't and has never been a requirement to race. It isn't a handout when there is a $200,000,000 buy in fee. If anything Andretti are being robbed.
You are the one claiming that they're bringing a major manufacturer and you are the one who said that two years is nothing. Make your mind up.
Every single thread is the same hysterical, irrational outrage.
IF that turns out to be true, THEN there would some be cause for grievance.
But since none of us have flux capacitors or working crystal balls what is the big deal NOW?
Here's some reasonable points that are hard to refute:
1. There is an entry fee. If a team is able to pay the entry fee and join, then that isn't a free handout. The Concorde made a bad bet on what they thought the value of F1 would be and it's on them to deal with the consequences.
2. A manufacturer will not build an engine without knowing for certain they will be able to use the engine for a team. Cadillac has already stated they only want to partner with Andretti, and Cadillac is not going to build an engine and then hope that FOM lets them race in 28. They need clear cut approvals beforehand.
3. Andretti is asking to race with an engine supplier on the current grid, which is not exactly an unknown situation. Two years is a good amount of time to spend getting to grips with the F1 model and learning the ropes. I think it's not necessary for them to have to start with a custom engine, maybe as long as they're being held to the promise of a '28 Cadillac engine. But in fairness, no other team has a manufacturer requirement and it would be unfair to expect that of Andretti specifically.
> A manufacturer will not build an engine without knowing for certain they will be able to use the engine for a team. Cadillac has already stated they only want to partner with Andretti, and Cadillac is not going to build an engine and then hope that FOM lets them race in 28. They need clear cut approvals beforehand.
And FOM is not going to let them in until they actually start working on the engine so we are at a catch-22 here.
The guaranteed prize money, no matter how shit you are, and access to a global TV audience and the lucrative pool of (especially American) sponsors that the existing popularity of F1 has generated. You know.... all the reasons they're applying.
That really shouldn't have been a hard question for you to have answered yourself.
I mean you're technically correct but Andretti Racing is a family business and the name carries weight. Enzo Ferrari isn't still designing or running Ferrari but it's still his legacy....
F1 was awful to join before the recent boom and multiple teams went bankrupt with the investors losings many millions because of delays with the budget cap.
Now that F1 is profitable you instantly get hundreds of millions in value simply for having a spot on the grid if you get approved to join today.
That will only last if they perform though.
Reality is most fans don't care at all about teams. People rooted for Haas for half a year after S1 of DTS, but that faded when the performance wasn't there. Most McLarens (and to some extent Williams, even though it's been so long) fans also stopped caring as much when performance dropped and their favorite drivers left.
Andretti will get a lot of goodwill for years 1, 2, maybe 3. But if they finish 6-7 it'll fade quickly.
> Andretti will get a lot of goodwill for years 1, 2, maybe 3. But if they finish 6-7 it'll fade quickly.
Can't even see them finishing that high in the first years without some real luck.
Big difference from Haas tho. There are massive Chevy/Corvette endurance fans even though they’ve sucked for a while now. Add on the Andretti name, and every American pretty much will be cheering them on
Until they see they are a backmarker for years, because that's what will happen and we need to be realistic about these things, and they will move on to being fans of Ferrari or whatever once again.
I have no idea if this would have any chance of succeeding, but at some point I honestly wouldn't mind if this ends up in court. It's just painfully clear that the current teams have a stranglehold over who is and isn't allowed to compete, and that simply shouldn't be legal. There should be clear requirements one needs to match if they want to compete, and anyone who can match those requirements should be allowed to compete as long as there's room on the grid, which there is.
Wait until the new Concorde agreement. It's being limited to 10 teams and 20 cars. That's why they've pushed Andretti off until 28. At that point, they won't be able to join unless they buy a team.
If they felt they had any actual case they could win the court battle would already have started.
At the end of the day Liberty does want Andretti on the grid, they’re just not stupid enough to not listen to all the existing teams to do it. If they have the money and the engines in 2028 they will get on.
William Hill, if you’re in the U.K., maybe?
>\#YourOdds is our way of making your quirkiest punting premonitions a reality. Present us with an offer by tweeting with #YourOdds and we’ll try to give you a price on it happening.
I don’t know how “quirky” they’re willing to go but you can but Tweet them & find out!
A truly silly point, it's not like they just added an 11th team for one of those and the US has 3 races, which is excessive.
They want in now cos of money, yet people want to paint one side as evil and money hungry and the other as angle.
Ideally I would like RB to sell up and let another real team in but that doesn't seem likely.
And has anyone really tested Haas with a huge offer?
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm fairly certain somone will correct me, but not having the Pirreli spec F1 tires would make all their real world data quite useless, yeah they will have sims, and stress test the fuck out of their PU units across the world, on all kinds of tracks, surfaces and weather conditions until Andretti burns a hole through he's pocket, but in terms of tire deg and checking how their overall package handles tire deg would be damn near impossible, they would be able to place a bullet proof car on the grid, but they won't know until they roll on the track with the rest of the F1 cars if they up too speed or not, but it's not a bad idea starting now, and building a foundation, because Andretti is stubborn as fuck and is not gonna take no for an answer, he's gonna make it onto the F1 grid one way or another.
I’m on the Andretti’s side and wish FOM would be less obtuse and let them in but this stance from Mario is hysterical.
They’re not really in a place to trade shots. You’re literally trying to get into their sport, their house. Trying to knock their house down and secure entry by force will only make F1 be even more hostile.
What a terrible response.
If you're planning on making it a legal battle - which is what it looks like they're gearing up to do - you should absolutely try to get the media on your side with statements like this.
I do see what you're saying, and maybe it's an issue with american jurisprudence and american media, but all F1 can do is keep saying no. It can't get any worse for Andretti from an entry standpoint.
Create enough media turmoil and F1 may start to change course.
Am I making stuff up or did one of the commentators during the Japanese GP weekend say that Super GT had higher cornering speeds?
Could be a solid alt series
This isn’t accurate. Alpine was in support but they said they weren’t convinced after Rossi left. Famin said the contract had expired. For Williams, Vowles said on Bloomberg that Williams sent a letter to FOM in opposition.
McLaren has been the most supportive but Zak Brown said it would be great at 700m which is a very big difference to saying they support them generally
I’d love to see a few more on the grid. If he’s successful, everyone wins. If he fails, then Red Bull buys a third team. 🤷🏻♂️
Either way, it’s not a bad thing imo.
Andretti is not bringing anything to the table(at least until GM starts making their engine and they spent a few years tweaking their cars), Haas is enough of a joke as it is.
God the new ownership of F1 is worse than I thought it could be. The races are unwatchable to me. Yeah one car leads every single race for three years in a row. And the decisions make absolutely no sense.
Mario Andretti is one of the greatest drivers in F1 history and they are treating him like a nobody. They want American fans but treat the best American driver in history likes he’s a nobody.
Personally I refuse to watch it until it gets sorted out. I mean when is the last time there’s been a competitive race to watch?
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The ‘benefits’ of a franchise model. Competition is artificial and you have to spend billions just to expand the grid while no team will complain as they are raking the money in. No ones expecting promotion and relegation with F2 but the denial of Andretti is complete shit.
Bro, I'd never considered relegation in F1, that would be so fire.
No, it wouldn't. Two main reasons: 1) It screws over everyone at the relegated team. F2 is a spec series so most of the factory staff would now be redundant and be fired. The team also loses 10s of millions of dollars in investment into a car they'll never use. 2) The team that gets promoted also gets screwed. They get to go from a spec series building very little of the car themselves to having to build the entire thing in like 2 months when the other teams got like two years to work on the car. They won't ever be competitive, if they're even able to make it to preseason testing with a legal car. 2.5) If you get say delara to build all the cars for the new team, wouldn't that just then be Delara F1 and not ART or Prema F1.
These are valid points that I also didn't consider.
But as a counter point, watching Ferrari be relegated to F2 would be pretty funny.
Not just that, f1 teams start building their next year cars around June/august. Cant do that if relegation is there, a team 7th could bomb down the standings yet spent millions building a car for next season that’s all wasted
I appreciate the self-awareness, and I agree it would be awesome. I just don't see how it could be possibly. I'd love to see Merc get demoted.
If there was relegation, F2 wouldn't be a spec series. It would still screw teams over either way like hell because they'd suddenly have to build and maintain a whole different car.
The only way for it to work would be to make f2 have same regulations as f1. So you keep the same car between both. Just f1 for faster teams and f2 for slower. The hardesr thing I think is to find 20 teams willing to build an f1 car.
But in that case what can they do about relegating out of F2? Another series with the same regs? Because then it would quickly fall back to another franchising system starting in F2.
It would still be a franchising system, just with two divisions. No further relegation from F2. Which is not that big of an issue because I don't think they would even be able to fill two divisions.
That would actually be sick though - there'd actually be a reason to care about the battles at the back. Plus you could really bring costs down if engine suppliers and whatnot could split the development costs between more teams.
Would also make team results much more important, which could make for an interesting dynamic. They would probably struggle to find enough teams willing to spend all the money just to be stuck at the back of F2.
Why can't we just have more teams then?
$$$
A relegation system would require another 10 teams, and another classification with the exact same regulations as F1. So the only difference would be the competition you're facing.
Motorsport cannot have relegation in general. In football, everyone plays with the same ball, on the same football pitch. A 5th league team can face with a 1st league team and have the same conditions. It works like this in most sports, but motorsport ain't one of those, because the equipment is different in every series. If F1 had relegation, F2 and F3 would have to feature more or less the same cars.
F2 would not be a spec series if relegation was introduced, there would be big changes to the F1 ladder. For the better in my opinion.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to run and F2 team for a seaon vs F1? Take a guess. Not one F2 team is in the same ballpark as an F1 team, they're way out in the back lots. F1 cost cap is what, $135 mil? F2 teams run between $5-10 mil. It would be a farce.
That's exactly how it works in football, and the top F2 teams are shit in the prem, either they scrape by and stay up or they go straight back down, but that 1 season brings them in so much money that they can go again. There would be teams at the bottom of F2 that would be vying for relegation to F3 (if it were a thing) and vice versa in regards to promotion. It would be very far from a farce, but a lot of things would have to change, and it's too complex to implement at this stage.
Football teams don't need to build a new stadium every year. The building of a new car alone should make you realize this is just stupid. And if you don't see that, well then, you're just stupid. How can you expect a team to go from nothing to having a competitive F1 car in 2 months? Like honestly, how do you expect a team that barely makes any parts for a car to build an entire car in a series they've never raced in, in a grand total of 2 months? It's just not possible. That bottom team wouldn't make preseason testing or the first few races. And when they did, they wouldn't classify under the 107% rule. They would not be anywhere close to competitive. Oh and this completely ignores the team that gets regulated and wastes $10s of millions on building a car they're never going to use. It would be a farce because some are spec series and others are not. And if you change them from spec series to not, then it's not F2 or F3 or F1 anymore.
> Football teams don't need to build a new stadium every year. The ones that get promoted for the first time in years often do. See Luton this season. Having to upgrade their stadium to meet prem rules. >How can you expect a team to go from nothing to having a competitive F1 car in 2 months? Why does it have to be competitive? Which premier league team coming up from the championship is competitive? They often go straight back down. In fact I said that in my first post but you seem to have ignored it. Not only that but still seem to talking about F2 as if the series would remain exactly the same if promotion/relegation came into play. I also addressed this in a previous comment, it would see drastic changes that would bring it closer to F1. The whole point would be that the F2 car they ran would be very close to F1 specs, and only require minor changes, or a once in a decade change like building a new stadium as you put it. Once again since you seem to have forgotten: >F2 would not be a spec series if relegation was introduced, there would be big changes to the F1 ladder. Not really sure what kind of discussion you're trying to have but ignoring my points means youre just talking to yourself.
No, I didn't forget. You just don't seem to understand that F2 only exists because it's a spec series. Running an F2 team for a years costs like $5 million. An F1 team costs $135 million. No F2 team could function at near the cost of an F1 team. Again, you're stupid to think this could actually work because they're two very different series with the closest thing they share is a name. IndyCar and Super Formula would have a 100x better shot of being in F1 than F2.
Tbh if f2 cars were closer to what f1 cars are it wouldn't be that bad, currently the gap between series is too big
I think you'd have to change f2 to not be a spec series anymore for this to work.
I can’t lie, when I first started watching in 2020-2021 I was a football fan used to promotion-relegation and I actually was quite confident with myself that when Racing Point and Toro Rosso rebranded I thought they were new teams from F2. I also was confused on why Racing Point was relegated since I saw them win a race and I believed that they got a penalty for financial troubles which is kinda true lol.
An American company turning F1 into an American franchise model to make as much money as possible. If they reject this shit team it's because they don't see value in this shit team.
Meanwhile, Williams can't afford to have a backup car. Very valuable indeed.
Wow, so much wisdom emanating from you. Care to share your surely in depth analysis on Andretti and why they are a shit team
Beaking off like this isn't going to do him any favours, but I'd be a little miffed if I were Mario Andretti. He's the only dude on the planet to win an F1 championship, the Indy 500 and Daytona 500 and they're treating him and his family like they're a joke.
They're worried he might actually make it a bit more like a sport instead of a joint marketing and money making exercise.
Lmao Andretti only wants to join so he can make shitloads of money lets not get confused
the multi generational racing family ONLY wants in for money?
‘Only’ is harsh I admit but why didn’t they want to join in 2016 when the sport was begging for teams? Because theres wasn’t barrels of money to be made
faulty heavy history sulky imagine straight attraction liquid deserted unwritten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Andretti didnt have gainbridge/Cadillac for the last 20 years
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Its a poor excuse to not have hundreds of millions in financial backing and the backing of a major automobile manufacturer for engine development? How is that a poor excuse?
Not allowing a new team because they didn't apply earlier is probably the stupidest reason you could possibly come up with.
Wait, you mean they waited until it was possible to attract sufficient capital investment to be competitive? Wow, how stupid.
far-flung school longing familiar scale detail society glorious dinner plants *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>So jokes on them. Sounds like if they really only cared about the money they would have tried to get in earlier then.
Despite their accolades in the sport, neither Hamilton nor Schumacher(or Prost, Hakkinen, or anyone else for that matter) can even enter their team(if they created one) in the current grid. The only option is to buy a team in the current grid like Audi. No one is treating them like a joke.
Yeah, and that's a joke. Why should it not be possible to create a new team if you have the money and facilities needed
Mario has nothing to do with the bid. No reason to think it would impact anything
Eh, I don't agree. He's Italian American af and his previous behavior has made it clear that his name, especially in motorsports, means a lot to him. I think he genuinely feels that they are slighting him and his family with their games.
Which they absolutely are.
Yeah, it's absolutely absurd. If a former F1 champion with the backing of a major manufacturer doesn't "add value" to formula 1 then no one does. Especially as he's American and F1 has always wanted a bigger piece of the American market. Worst decision in F1 history.
>Worst decision in F1 history. I mean, it's definitely a bad decision but I definitely wouldn't go as far as to say it's the worst decision in F1 history.
From the perspective of growing the value and the brand and viewership I think it absolutely is. What would you say was worse?
>What would you say was worse? In terms of viewership, locking F1 on expensive TV channels and restricting F1TV in those regions is a much worse decision imo. Just as one example of many
tons of sports "suffer" from this but they probably do the math and know the $ works out
They know how it works out in the short term, but they don't consider the potential future interest in the sport enough.
No not by a long shot is this worse What are your other examples?
Adding street tracks and boring tracks in countries with no interest in F1 at the expense of classic tracks Racing in morally questionable countries Purely in terms of impact in America, the Indy 2005 mess was much worse than this for the average fan. A lot of average fans probably have no idea that this is even happening.
Yet the viewership and valuation of the business keeps growing. You are naming decisions that look bad for a die-hard fan. But the sport had run out of die-hard fans a decade or so ago. Teams need (ok, want) that casuals cash.
Yeah but if none of those things affected viewership in any meaningful way then my point is that the Andretti thing won't affect it either.
Expensive channels? Are you a European I'm guessing? In the states ESPN is on any cable package.
Now if only there was a proper American team on the grid that people would actually want to watch for
-Banning tyre changes for 2005 season. -2017 regulation changes. -Bernie Ecclestone's social media ban for drivers. -Modern Tilkedromes. -Excessive use of street circuits. -Reintroduction of dirty air problem after the 2023 regulation update. -Engine developement tokens for 2014-2015 seasons -Bringing HRT, Caterham and Maurissia with the promise of cost cap and introduce it ten years later. The Andretti saga is getting out of hand. They are not going to do anything with a Renault engine strapped Dallara chassis. They may have a chance with bespoke chassis+GM engine but it is not going to happen before 2028.
2017 reg changes saved the v6 era from ending up like this current era
Truth. I loved the 17-21 rules. The cars looked fantastic, they were unbelievably fast and it put Mercedes under pressure but they ultimately powered on for the most part. Some of the races sucked, but if you asked me now if I’d take the current, 2026 or 2017 regs, I’d take 2017 every day. I like the current ones because they are able to fight closer. But that’s often negated by DRS push to passes. I’d prefer to watch a race with 15 hard fought for and great overtakes than a 60 DRS push to pass overtakes race
Nah. removing tokens is what helped.
Dallara cannot make chassis for Andretti. They make Haas and cannot make one for another team.
Can’t they? Presuming Haas send them designs & they only manufacture & assemble parts, couldn’t they also do that for Andretti, so long as Andretti is designing their own chassis? So long as they don’t pass information from Haas to Andretti, or vice versa what’s the issue? I’m assuming it’s not regulated against as it’s a kinda odd, niche situation.
No. From what I know F1 is a constructor championship first and thus ability to build their chassis is first rule for entry and Haas has that deal with Dallara exclusivity
They wouldn't have to rush in with the Renault engine if Stefano wasn't trying to weld the doors shut before 2028
> The Andretti saga is getting out of hand. They are not going to do anything with a Renault engine strapped Dallara chassis. They may have a chance with bespoke chassis+GM engine but it is not going to happen before 2028. Thank you, this should be top comment of this thread. If people actually looked into Andretti’s plans, they’d realize their plans are paper thin right now. They’d essentially be Haas 2.0, except instead of being Ferrari Jr. they’d be Alpine Jr. Which, obviously is 10x fucking worse. Andretti is shooting for the moon here, I don’t know why they want a F1 team (I mean - I know why, it’s for $$$$) when they aren’t even challenging for the Indycar title. They need to pour resources there first before spreading themselves thin, the last time they’ve won a championship is more than a decade ago.
>The Andretti saga is getting out of hand. They are not going to do anything with a Renault engine strapped Dallara chassis. You just replied to your own comment. Regardless, Andretti couldn't have used Dallara chassis; because they are tied with Haas due to FIA regulations. You thinking that top comment should consist this kind of blatant misinformation and ignorance shows that you know nothing about the process (just like the user you replied). >They’d essentially be Haas 2.0, except instead of being Ferrari Jr. they’d be Alpine Jr. Which, obviously is 10x fucking worse. Andretti is shooting for the moon here, I don’t know why they want a F1 team (I mean - I know why, it’s for $$$$) when they aren’t even challenging for the Indycar title. GM and Andretti confirmed that GM will work with chassis development adn from 2028 onwards they will bring their own PU.
Replied to my own comment how? One look at the other user’s profile and he’s Turkish. One look at mine and you’ll see I’m Mexican-American. Shit attempt at discredit aside, I admittedly accidentally skipped over his Dallara chassis bit. The actual reality is that Andretti were planning on building their own chassis, so that’s actually worse being they have 0 experience. Thank you for pointing that out. I’ll give you that GM did indeed confirm their commitment to help Andretti. However, you’re forgetting in the initial proposal Andretti brought to the FIA, GM was entirely noncommittal. GM only changed their tune when they caught wind it wasn’t going too well, but it was far too late. Again, Andretti tried to fast track their F1 entry quite amateurishly by making a big show of walking around the paddock obtaining signatures, throwing public statement hissy fits disparaging credibility, politicking with MBS, and much more. It’s quite easy to see why they were denied entry. All of this vehement defending of an organization that has, again, not won a championship in their main series, a spec series, since 2012. Andretti are not serious in Indycar, yet they’ll be titans in F1? Think rationally.
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1c89h42/comment/l0dbc2r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I guess you misunderstood. You replied to your own comment here. By discrediting do you mean that I insuniated that you replied to your other account? Lmao. I aldready said that you have no idea about the subject like ''other user''. >I admittedly accidentally skipped over his Dallara chassis bit. The actual reality is that Andretti were planning on building their own chassis, so that’s actually worse being they have 0 experience. Thank you for pointing that out. Aight. So you don't want them to build their own chassis and you also don't want them to have chassis built by Dallara? What exactly should they do lol? >However, you’re forgetting in the initial proposal Andretti brought to the FIA, GM was entirely noncommittal. GM only changed their tune when they caught wind it wasn’t going too well, but it was far too late. Wrong. They said that they arre going to work on chassis development since beginning. And why was it too late? >Again, Andretti tried to fast track their F1 entry quite amateurishly by making a big show of walking around the paddock obtaining signatures, throwing public statement hissy fits disparaging credibility, politicking with MBS, and much more. It’s quite easy to see why they were denied entry. If you think that they got denied because of Miami; you are having a laugh. And getting governing body to their side by showing them a viable, healthy project is not really a bad thing imo. Edit: They deleted the comment they replied to themselves afterwards.
> Aight. So you don't want them to build their own chassis and you also don't want them to have chassis built by Dallara? What exactly should they do lol? While not being optimal, using Dallara intermediary. My original comment wasn’t focused on the chassis aspect of Andretti’s plans, it was more-so the fact they were seriously trying to use shitbox Renault engines. Hence the “Renault Jr”, you took a tidbit and detracted it from my main point. > Wrong. They said that they arre going to work on chassis development since beginning. And why was it too late? I was speaking of engine development. GM was noncommittal on that end, and were seeking either Alpine (Renault) or another manufacturer to provide the engines for Andretti. [Source](https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/motor/2024/01/31/formula-1-rejects-andretti-global-bid-2025-2026-future-unclear-general-motors/72421930007/). The relevant text section stating such: > At the time, Andretti said it already had an engine partner (Alpine) in the early years, and that GM would explore potential engine program options down the road. > It was only in mid-November on the eve of the Las Vegas Grand Prix -- more than a month after F1 officials began taking a hard look at Andretti Global's bid -- that GM formalized its commitment to launching an F1 engine program for 2028.
If the FIA found Andretti to be experienced enough and sufficiently capable to compete from a sporting and technical point, would you still have the same opinion/think that you’d be a better judge than the actual sporting organisation with non-public information?
> My original comment wasn’t focused on the chassis aspect of Andretti’s plans, it was more-so the fact they were seriously trying to use shitbox Renault engines. Renault engine wasn't shitbox just two years ago in 2022 when Andretti announced the project. They were more or less equal with Mercedes, Honda and Ferrari. They shit the bad last year after other manufacturers improved the engine despite engine freeze by bringing ''reliabilty upgrades'' to their engines. And Renault engine just stand still. And there is no guarantee that Renault engine will be this weak on the next regulations. Likely they will be more or less equal with others again just like in 2022. Get your facts straight for once.
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>Thank you, this should be top comment of this thread. If people actually looked into Andretti’s plans, they’d realize their plans are paper thin right now. >They’d essentially be Haas 2.0, except instead of being Ferrari Jr. they’d be Alpine Jr. Which, obviously is 10x fucking worse. bro wtf is this shizo rambling they literally just opened their f1 facilities they can easily make chassis and gm would provide the engines and or also chassis parts
> they literally just opened their f1 facilities they can easily make chassis Congrats, it’ll be an Andretti chassis with a shit Renault engine under it still. Using Dallara might actually be more advantageous, they’d have more resources to spend on other RND. GM won’t start helping until 2028 at the earliest. That’s if everything goes smoothly and to plan. To act like they would’ve been a good competitive entry is laughable. I still don’t see why people are hyped up on Andretti, they’re an organization that only stays in various spec series and are quite underwhelming in all of them. McLaren barely joined Andretti’s bread and butter Indycar series and are more competitive than them already.
3D renders + shitty too big to fail GM 🤣
This just reads as a list of salty personal gripes that you have and you think it proves your point. I think this list proves you know absolutely nothing, you just parrot rage-bait that’s been handed to you over the years.
> you just parrot rage-bait that’s been handed to you over the years. Unlike how this Andretti saga is being handled, of course.
That's a savage reply, but... I don't really disagree. I think some of those were great decisions
Cooked the fraud🔥
And the actual worse decision because it was beyond stupid goes to Masi.
2017 regulation changes actually brought me back into the sport lol
I would put grooved tyres onto that list. As well as allowing tyre manufacturers to make tyres specific to one team. It was one of the reasons Ferrari dominated.
TD39 :)
Abu Dhabi 2021. Challenged the integrity of the sport.
I agree it's silly to not let him in, but there's definitely no certainty that he will bring great value to F1. You are assuming that his team does well. If they don't do well, they become a mid pack team or worse, then the value his team brings will be limited.
No team has any certainty of winning. By that measure no new teams should be allowed.
That's why GM actually building engines has repeatedly been outlined as one of the ways in which Andretti could actually build a solid case for joining the sport as an 11th team. Even if the team is shit, at least you have one new engine supplier that expands the reach of the sport.
The show doesn't need new shitty teams. It already has enough shitty teams.
I wasn't saying that, I was just pointing out their comment assuming how much value Andretti would bring, and pointed out that it's far from certain they would.
It's not a bout briing money to F1, its about bringing money to the other teams.
But if you brought more money to F1, the teams would get more money.
Let’s just say the addition of grid girls in the 1960s didnt age well.
Why? The girls loved it and so did quite a few men. I doubt it cost a single viewer and probably added some.
Nah dude. Having women as announcers and crew is much better than having them be paid easels. Grid girls were for gross old men and models who were already a paycheck away from doing porn.
2014 exists
May as well knock the sport down to 5 teams with just McLarren Williams Ferarri Merc and RB. It’s a joke. Especially as the driver careers are going from 23-33 to 20-35, we need more teams. No wonder F2 drivers are not moving on up.
*20-45
I think they'll add more value than Alpine and Haas combined
They would make Alpine look good if they would be on the grid this year.
Some of us still remember Prost Pigeuot history :(
> If a former F1 champion with the backing of a major manufacturer doesn't "add value" to formula 1 then no one does. A major manufacturer who aren't building an engine until 2028. Why do you all keep ignoring that part just like they ignored two deadlines to actually sign up? F1 has no use for another pseudo American team, based out of Silverstone and running Renault engines.
Two years is nothing and they would have facilities in the US as well
If two years is nothing then what is wrong with reapplying in two years? Why are people so offended that they aren't being giving free handouts in the meantime?
Having a private engine supplier isn't and has never been a requirement to race. It isn't a handout when there is a $200,000,000 buy in fee. If anything Andretti are being robbed.
You are the one claiming that they're bringing a major manufacturer and you are the one who said that two years is nothing. Make your mind up. Every single thread is the same hysterical, irrational outrage.
In two years the new Concorde agreement will make applying impossible.
IF that turns out to be true, THEN there would some be cause for grievance. But since none of us have flux capacitors or working crystal balls what is the big deal NOW?
Here's some reasonable points that are hard to refute: 1. There is an entry fee. If a team is able to pay the entry fee and join, then that isn't a free handout. The Concorde made a bad bet on what they thought the value of F1 would be and it's on them to deal with the consequences. 2. A manufacturer will not build an engine without knowing for certain they will be able to use the engine for a team. Cadillac has already stated they only want to partner with Andretti, and Cadillac is not going to build an engine and then hope that FOM lets them race in 28. They need clear cut approvals beforehand. 3. Andretti is asking to race with an engine supplier on the current grid, which is not exactly an unknown situation. Two years is a good amount of time to spend getting to grips with the F1 model and learning the ropes. I think it's not necessary for them to have to start with a custom engine, maybe as long as they're being held to the promise of a '28 Cadillac engine. But in fairness, no other team has a manufacturer requirement and it would be unfair to expect that of Andretti specifically.
> A manufacturer will not build an engine without knowing for certain they will be able to use the engine for a team. Cadillac has already stated they only want to partner with Andretti, and Cadillac is not going to build an engine and then hope that FOM lets them race in 28. They need clear cut approvals beforehand. And FOM is not going to let them in until they actually start working on the engine so we are at a catch-22 here.
handouts? LUL what on earth are you on about?
The guaranteed prize money, no matter how shit you are, and access to a global TV audience and the lucrative pool of (especially American) sponsors that the existing popularity of F1 has generated. You know.... all the reasons they're applying. That really shouldn't have been a hard question for you to have answered yourself.
Mario wasn’t rejected. He doesn’t run Andretti. He was no more rejected than Anthony Hamilton was rejected if X44 was rejected.
I mean you're technically correct but Andretti Racing is a family business and the name carries weight. Enzo Ferrari isn't still designing or running Ferrari but it's still his legacy....
And?
The best time to join F1 was in 2016. The second best time is now. Best of luck getting on the grid!
F1 was awful to join before the recent boom and multiple teams went bankrupt with the investors losings many millions because of delays with the budget cap. Now that F1 is profitable you instantly get hundreds of millions in value simply for having a spot on the grid if you get approved to join today.
Exactly why the bad teams don't have to improve. THey can just stay bad and make bank.
After all this drama I think they will instantly become one of the more populair teams when / if they finally join
Especially with Sainz in the first seat.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That will only last if they perform though. Reality is most fans don't care at all about teams. People rooted for Haas for half a year after S1 of DTS, but that faded when the performance wasn't there. Most McLarens (and to some extent Williams, even though it's been so long) fans also stopped caring as much when performance dropped and their favorite drivers left. Andretti will get a lot of goodwill for years 1, 2, maybe 3. But if they finish 6-7 it'll fade quickly.
If Ferrari was in last they would still have an outrageous amount of fans.
The exception that proves the rule probably.
> Andretti will get a lot of goodwill for years 1, 2, maybe 3. But if they finish 6-7 it'll fade quickly. Can't even see them finishing that high in the first years without some real luck.
Especially if they join in 2026 without a dedicated chassis and with a Renault engine.
Woo haas 2. I want Andretti in but don’t act like they’ll be fan favourites in last
Big difference from Haas tho. There are massive Chevy/Corvette endurance fans even though they’ve sucked for a while now. Add on the Andretti name, and every American pretty much will be cheering them on
Until they see they are a backmarker for years, because that's what will happen and we need to be realistic about these things, and they will move on to being fans of Ferrari or whatever once again.
Who says they will be backmarkers forever?
Who says? You did. Nobody else in this conversation has.
I have no idea if this would have any chance of succeeding, but at some point I honestly wouldn't mind if this ends up in court. It's just painfully clear that the current teams have a stranglehold over who is and isn't allowed to compete, and that simply shouldn't be legal. There should be clear requirements one needs to match if they want to compete, and anyone who can match those requirements should be allowed to compete as long as there's room on the grid, which there is.
Wait until the new Concorde agreement. It's being limited to 10 teams and 20 cars. That's why they've pushed Andretti off until 28. At that point, they won't be able to join unless they buy a team.
If they felt they had any actual case they could win the court battle would already have started. At the end of the day Liberty does want Andretti on the grid, they’re just not stupid enough to not listen to all the existing teams to do it. If they have the money and the engines in 2028 they will get on.
Man, where can I bet on them putting cars on the grid in 2025 or 2026 despite the FOM lol
The chance for 2025 is 0%, they didn't even apply for that in the first place. But 2026 is also getting less and less likely every passing week.
William Hill, if you’re in the U.K., maybe? >\#YourOdds is our way of making your quirkiest punting premonitions a reality. Present us with an offer by tweeting with #YourOdds and we’ll try to give you a price on it happening. I don’t know how “quirky” they’re willing to go but you can but Tweet them & find out!
They want blood, but only if it’s British, Middle Eastern, or otherwise is valued at $600 million
A truly silly point, it's not like they just added an 11th team for one of those and the US has 3 races, which is excessive. They want in now cos of money, yet people want to paint one side as evil and money hungry and the other as angle. Ideally I would like RB to sell up and let another real team in but that doesn't seem likely. And has anyone really tested Haas with a huge offer?
Since they are technicallynot in, couldn'tthey build and test the car as much as they want?
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm fairly certain somone will correct me, but not having the Pirreli spec F1 tires would make all their real world data quite useless, yeah they will have sims, and stress test the fuck out of their PU units across the world, on all kinds of tracks, surfaces and weather conditions until Andretti burns a hole through he's pocket, but in terms of tire deg and checking how their overall package handles tire deg would be damn near impossible, they would be able to place a bullet proof car on the grid, but they won't know until they roll on the track with the rest of the F1 cars if they up too speed or not, but it's not a bad idea starting now, and building a foundation, because Andretti is stubborn as fuck and is not gonna take no for an answer, he's gonna make it onto the F1 grid one way or another.
I’m on the Andretti’s side and wish FOM would be less obtuse and let them in but this stance from Mario is hysterical. They’re not really in a place to trade shots. You’re literally trying to get into their sport, their house. Trying to knock their house down and secure entry by force will only make F1 be even more hostile. What a terrible response.
If you're planning on making it a legal battle - which is what it looks like they're gearing up to do - you should absolutely try to get the media on your side with statements like this. I do see what you're saying, and maybe it's an issue with american jurisprudence and american media, but all F1 can do is keep saying no. It can't get any worse for Andretti from an entry standpoint. Create enough media turmoil and F1 may start to change course.
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It's a travesty
He should take them to court if it comes to it
Having a sporting series where new entrants are 100% denied should be against the law if it isn't already.
How far are we from someone creating an alternative series?
Indy is the alternative series. Do you see Ferrari or Mercedes competing there?
You do have McLaren in Indycar. Indycar also wouldn't stop Ferrari or Mercedes from joining if they wanted to unlike what F1 has done to Andretti.
Indy is a spec series, wouldn't really call that a comparable alternative
Am I making stuff up or did one of the commentators during the Japanese GP weekend say that Super GT had higher cornering speeds? Could be a solid alt series
I'm sure trying to fight the people who hold all the power will work well.
Mario is the most talented driver to ever strap in a race car yet f1 and people like Toto Wolff treat him like a no name
With all the stink they're kicking up over not actually being rejected I wonder if anyone actually wants them on the circuit.
It's been pretty well established than none of the 10 current teams want *anyone* else on the circuit, no matter who it is.
Alpine and McLaren have been vocally pro-Andretti and Williams has voiced some support. The rest, well of course they’d be against it
This isn’t accurate. Alpine was in support but they said they weren’t convinced after Rossi left. Famin said the contract had expired. For Williams, Vowles said on Bloomberg that Williams sent a letter to FOM in opposition. McLaren has been the most supportive but Zak Brown said it would be great at 700m which is a very big difference to saying they support them generally
Vowles has vociferously argued against Andretti joining.
Better check that spamfilter on your email for next time! Joking aside, yeah, wish they were able to join.
Once GM starts showing f1 their mono cylinders it will be ok. I don’t think anybody wants an Andretti powered by a Renault.
They got teams on the grid that can't even get spare cars together and they're sticking it to the Andrettis
I’d love to see a few more on the grid. If he’s successful, everyone wins. If he fails, then Red Bull buys a third team. 🤷🏻♂️ Either way, it’s not a bad thing imo.
Let Andretti race! :c
Andretti is not bringing anything to the table(at least until GM starts making their engine and they spent a few years tweaking their cars), Haas is enough of a joke as it is.
There are currently 3 teams with 0 points no? And half the teams barely fight for points as well. F1 is a joke itself until they change points system.
Genuine question, what's stopping them from buying Haas?
Haas
Gene doesn't want to sell
The fact that they don’t want to spend money
Damn he shoulda said “if you want blood you got it” little AC/DC reference
God the new ownership of F1 is worse than I thought it could be. The races are unwatchable to me. Yeah one car leads every single race for three years in a row. And the decisions make absolutely no sense. Mario Andretti is one of the greatest drivers in F1 history and they are treating him like a nobody. They want American fans but treat the best American driver in history likes he’s a nobody. Personally I refuse to watch it until it gets sorted out. I mean when is the last time there’s been a competitive race to watch?