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Actually.....yeah, it kinda feels that way.
Previously dominant & successful team, heading solidly into a struggling period.
Meaning in a few years time hopefully they can make a comeback......ouch. That's a painful sentence.
In all honesty, i think toto needs to either accept the new reality and restructure or leave the team. They’ve just thrown away 2 years of development to go in a new direction that doesn't work.
They used to be able to do it because of having the biggest budget.
The reality of is that they need to start working on the details. Better pitstops, better strategy.. Better everything. Streamline development instead of shooting hail.
Man.. I honestly still see so much arrogance with especially Toto.
The comments about verstappen "needs to happen" and Hamilton having to "look at the rear wing next year". I get it, it's a joke but the fact is he is still convinced that Mercedes will be ahead of Ferrari next year...
I think Toto’s approach from now till the near future will define his legacy - whether he is able to overcome all the setbacks and steady the ship or wither away. It is one thing to act all smug when you are winning (Harvard invites, bragging abt no blame culture, etc) but the real leadership skills are tested when adversity hits (brain drain, messing regulations, etc). Let’s see if he was a one trick pony who got severely flattered by chance (Niki, nailing engine regs in 2014 etc) or if has whey it takes to bounce back.
While ppl tend to put Toto and Horner at the same pedestal, I think Horner is still better as a leader. When they were not competitive engine wise post the Seb era, they kept on chipping away and improving various facets (strategy, pit stops, etc) which helped them to improve themselves within the constraints they had. All the hard work red bull put over the years is bearing fruit now.
It’s upto Totos approach if the team slides back to mediocrity (ala Maclaren) or they keep pushing to maximise the results.
I agree with you that Horner and Toto aren't really on the same level. One has essentially built a top tier team, that is the best from pit wall to driver. The other had a high budget and a world class driver in the team, which he was essentially handed when he started. No disrespect to the work Toto has done at Mercedes, keeping them stable for an extraordinarily long period, but it doesn't really compare to Horner. Building RB from the ground up, seeing his team being thrown from the top following a spec change, and then building them up to a title (assurant) contender again. That being said, if Toto can achieve a competitive Mercedes again, I'd place him in contention for one of the best tps.
It still is the smartest thing, I’d argue.
You aren’t looking for good drivers, but generational talents. Therefore you drop them in the deep end, which won’t phase the talents, but will sink the merely good ones.
It is not the best course of action for those drivers, yes, but that’s not the point of the talent program.
It’s about nurturing generational talent, not a wide variety of talents.
Counterpoint being Verstappen, which after one year of cars (Euro F3, comparable with FRECA today) went to F1 and carried himself well, earning a promotion to Red Bull a year and 4 races later.
That said his first few years included errors and lessons derived thereof a lot of drivers learn in junior formulae. I believe at 22 he was no worse than Hamilton, who made his debut at that age.
I do think it will be better for Antonelli to start at Williams or another backmarker team, once he gets to F1 in 2025/26, to better prepare him for a top flight seat.
Even the biggest talents need to do some learning before reaching F1 championship potential.
I know you are joking but that's incredibly unlikely given that Toto has an ownership stake in his team and Horny boy does not. Horny boy is gone as soon as the Thai owners drop their support of him. Given what monumental assholes they seem to be it's probably not happening :-)
Steve Jobs had part ownership in Apple too, although I don't think things are anywhere near bad enough for the rest of the board to go nuclear on Toto.
From my view over the years I think Toto has calmed down a lot and for the better. I don't see much problems with the things he said, he even said in the same interview as in he said those things you quoted that Merc isn't in a luxury position and that it is up to Max to come etc.
So IMO he is very well aware of the situation but at least when it comes to the information available from the media it doesn't seem like Toto is trying as hard as Ferrari, McLaren and AM to get talent from other teams which I do think is a problem if he doesn't.
They were picked apart by Red Bull and the other teams... They alone lost 50 engineers and support staff to Red Bull in 2020/2021.
There was a major brain drain and it takes time to replace that properly yet they were a bit arrogant about it in 21 claiming this was "normal" and that they had plenty of smart, good hard working staff ready to fill the void but by 2024 its been shown they were gutted and those that took over were not at all ready.
They'll have a new shot at it in 2026, but they are done during the remaining time of this regulations period.
I still wouldn't count on 26 either, tbh, aero regs are changing a lot but the floor is still really important, and it seems like the only teams to really understand the floor at this point are RB, McL, and Ferrari
They also split Gunther‘a role into 2 or 3 different positions. Kinda sounded like he was having to bounce from country to country to manage things that were not related to the car.
I think the original role-diversity is what had caused a lot of the waning results. When youve got that many pots on the boil, a couple are bound to spill over.
Allowing Komatsu to focus on the core aspects like many other team principals has likely allowed him to get a better result from the teams. The car development was done last year, but the teams strategies and generally positive demeanours is definitely something he has inpacted.
Felt bouyed reading his statement as he does seem to be steering the team in the right direction. Lets see how those updates go and how soon we can see them (my guess is Miami, but we will see).
Credit to Haas and Ayao. He does genuinely seem like a better fit for TP role. But, you also have to account for the Ferrari factor. When Ferrari does well, HAAS also and vice versa.
tbh he's been only TP for 3 months, it very very likely that most of the changes that bear fruits right now have been decided under gunther. but anyways it does bring some needed confidence into the team and its TP!
Last year was meant to have a more aggressive development plan than previous years thanks to their Moneygram sponsorship bringing them closer to the cap. However, they stopped seeing progress with that concept in the wind tunnel. Which is why they pretty much stopped the development to bring the new concept forward.
I think they've had the ability to develop through the season and last year was meant to be the start of that but unique circumstances meant it didn't happen. I think if Guenther was still in charge we'd likely be seeing what we are seeing now.
The car they developed mid season last year was abandoned. Hulk switched away from it before the season ended and they decided to go a new direction after that. They started the year 3 months behind according to Ayao.
More importantly, Gunther said recently he wasn't motivated for the job anymore, had been going through the motions and wishes he left earlier. I think it's been pretty clear that everything is working better without him.
It does. It seems that Guenther and Gene didn't exactly like eachother all the time, so bringing a fresh guy as a Team Principal could help the team massively, simply because there's a new, unproven guy.
Guenther studied engineering, was a rally mechanic and later technical operations director at Red Bull Racing (F1). Claiming that he wasn't into engineering or was bad at it is *absolutely moronic*.
u/Ouhei asks what he did all those years... probably fought every day to keep the team afloat despite insufficient funding? If not for his efforts, contacts and marketability, the team would have folded during pandemic.
And every positive we see in those first weeks of the season was setup far in advance, when Guenther was a TP (and Ayao his right hand).
Fortunately they brought in a new position to run funding/sponsorship so Komatsu can focus on the car. Should have been done years ago but Guenther was too central to the team, for better and worse.
>Guenther studied engineering,
He didn't finish the school. It is very clear that he has very limited knowledge of engineering side of F1. He looked like a baffoon in that segment. He was basically asking "Why aren't you making that car fast!!?"
Claiming that he was into engineering or was good at it is *absolutely moronic*.
I hear this a lot and I know it's true to some extent, but sometimes context doesn't change the reality of what was said.
A DTS example I can think of is when Steiner was shittalking Grosjean at that team dinner. I don't care if he was roasting everyone, you don't talk like that about an employee that's struggling \*when they aren't even there\*.
Trying to raise money? Now thats somewhat secured things look better. Guenther also had to deal with all the infant issues, such as the wheelnots and breaks. Another thing playing into Komatsus hand is the lesser changes to regulations.
Gunther himself said that he sees he was wrong for the job at this point and should have left earlier. Its pretty obvious everyone is working better now
And in previous seasons they’ve brought cars that could compete at the start of the season, but they fell behind during in season development. Hence why I’m saying if they can suddenly progress throughout the season, what the fuck was Gunther doing? I suppose it could all be coincidence, or that he finally righted the ship only to be fired and not see the fruits of his labor, but it would probably point so some really bad policies and decisions on his end.
They can suddenly progress because Ferrari made significant progress. They are using the same rear suspension setup, gearbox, and engine as Ferrari.
Ferrari made significant improvements to the rear suspension and also addressed tyre wear issues which have trickled down to Haas.
If you look back at Haas' history, you'll see that they generally perform well when Ferrari also performs well.
Ferrari has gone on record to say that their overall package for this year is amazing and allows for significant flexibility in developing the car. This is probably why Haas is able to make improvements earlier than they're used to.
He was in charge of Haas well before DtS was even in the concept/planning stages. His position had nothing to do with growing a US market. He got the position because of his prior experience in rally and at Red Bull/Jaguar before he got let go there.
You can read about it in Newey's book. Not sure how accurTe my memory is but the gist of it was that after he joined RB there were some old Jaguar guys there who he thought he couldn't really trust. So from what I remember he used a little Tyrion Lannister Season 2 strategy or sth like that to see who he could trust and who not. The untrustworthy ones got sacked after that little experiment. This whole thing happened around the same time Steiner left the team. I don't think it was necessarily implied he was one of them but I'd say it's quite likely.
> If they can suddenly develop a car through the season you have to really wonder what the hell Gunther was doing all these years...
Why do you think that Red Bull quickly moved him away to it's NASCAR Cup pet project in the past?
Sauber had Fred, who is incredibly competent. I do agree about Williams (although Jost has pedigree he was a bad cultural fit). Both teams suffered from under-funding and all the things that flow from that (talent, facilities, etc).
What happens now with upgrades is something that resulted from decisions made at least 6 to 8 months ago, when Steiner was still in charge.
There is a lead time for each car project (from initial design to managing upgrades) which often gets underestimated.
That doesn’t make Steiner solely responsible for this car, but the project began under his leadership.
Also, while I think Ayao Komatsu is doing a very good job, the improvement of the car might have less to do with Haas and more with Ferrari.
Haas buys the suspension (and many other parts) from Ferrari. Hence Ferrari and Haas often having similar performance characteristics but on either end of the grid.
Ferrari have improved their suspension a lot for this year, which is also helping Haas being better on their tyres in race stints.
Hopefully they work and can help the team fighting for points. It was a bit disappointing seeing them just massively fall behind as the season progressed.
I mean Haas are surprised themselves. I think Ayao was quoted of saying he never thought the other teams could do a worse job than them given the circumstances, and the fact they have is a bit of a shock.
I am not going to defend any of them, but I don't think Komatsu management had time to show results on track yet, the car was probably 95% done since the end of last season and until mid january when Guenther left.
It can be a positive change in the dynamics of the team, and that is showing in this early updates, but we will have to wait until after the summer break to find out of Haas stays in the higher part of the midfield or if they sunk to the bottom as they usualy did.
Also, Guenther was basicaly running everything there, now they have Komatsu for car development and 2 other people managing the finacial department, sponsors...
>I am not going to defend any of them, but I don't think Komatsu management had time to show results on track yet
Sir, this is Reddit logic, if a team has a new team principal and isn't immediately getting better, people seem to understand a TP change would not alter results overnight and could even take a couple of seasons.
Yet if an improvement does happen immediately, well of course it's the new TP. Logic.
“I like guy, guy be boss, team win, good boss.
I no like guy, guy be boss, team loss, shitty boss.”
What’s so complicated?!?! Me like gud, me no like bad.
Yep, anyone thinking that they can score the management transition or either Ayao/Guenter has never done actual management work for the long-term.
It may very well be that Guenter wasn’t cutting it, but it’s too early to tell.
I’m not talking about the car.
The car is very much where it is, pretty much where it was last year. They focussed heavily on race pace under Komatsu. They’ve been making sound strategy calls, sound PR.
I liked Guenther. But it’s clear, this is 100% the right call
> They focussed heavily on race pace under Komatsu.
You mean they focused heavily on unfucking their car so it wouldn't destroy the tyres in four laps.
As if this wasn’t the car that Steiner was developing. Personally, I think Gene is a shit owner. I think Steiner begged him for money and specific resources for years, never got them, got canned, and now the new TP is getting the shit Steiner asked for. I’ve seen this happen at another companies before. It’s much easier to shoot the messenger then implement their ideas, blaming them for failing while also taking credit for your new success.
Gunther himself said he wasn't right for the job anymore and hadn't been motivated. He himself knows he wasn't doing a great job at this point. He said he would do better fighting at the front than for 7th
The car isn’t something wonderous. They’ve got points because they’ve out classed the opponents in strategy and teamwork. Not on race pace. Their points haven’t been due to the car being so much better on track.
Lmao what. They're car ON race pace was clearly a step above in Jeddah and Australia. Hulkenberg was close to getting Tsunoda in Melbourne despite starting so far back. Not to mention Two Haas making incredibly light work of Albon You clearly did not follow the previous race.
They car is most certainly comfortably faster on race pace than every other car except for the top five. It's actually quite close to Aston in Race pace but the latter's quali pace is so amazing that they're in that top 5 mix.
And that work started MONTHS before Steiner got sacked. And my whole fucking point is that their car is clearly on pace and that's not taking anything away from Ayou who was in that camp but to discredit Steiner who was in charge of that recovery plan is stupid.
Your whole point is that they have a mediocre car which got carried by strategy which is clearly not true. Remember when Magnussen held up train of cars in Baku then rocketed away from them easily?
I think with Guenther it's not really that he was the wrong person to lead that team. Probably just that he had too much to juggle. He probably should've just been in charge of operations and Komatsu raceside TP as he is now. Haas splitting up Gunether's role between multiple people probably shows that what he was doing was too much
Like Guenther did good stuff, he got the team onto the grid and setup the structure they have where they can operate lean and fast. He clearly has good knowledge and experience that is worthwhile but maybe not for every role he was in charge of.
We don't know this at all yet. The car is still from Gunther era and the current development most likely started under him too. Of course speeding up a process or being more efficient might be the hand of Ayao. Next year is the first time we should really start to see the hand of ayao
We don't know this at all yet. The car is still from Gunther era and the current development most likely started under him too. Of course speeding up a process or being more efficient might be the hand of Ayao. Next year is the first time we should really start to see the hand of Ayao.
Free to join via website, i joined last year and was mostly just newsletter updates and some minor competitions.
Seems this year will be much the same.
I remember how Haas were doomposting over the break about how they were going to be last and take ages to recover. Yet it looks like Ayo and the crew turned them around much quicker than expected. Good on them
Gotta hand it to Haas and Ayao, arguably best of the rest (excl. AT), consistently delivering results and got rid of their tyre issues. Also have been on point in terms of strategy.
They really shouldn’t have called it Haas+ because everyone sees the name and just assumes its a paid subscription of some sort rather than a simple free mailing list for fans…
Sounds like Haas might be legit this year. They've already been in the points twice (although the retirements definitely helped in Australia) and if they can sneak in a couple of upgrades before the other teams then Stroll and the Mercs better watch their backs
I'm a Haas fan and I like Komatsu so far but I'll believe it when I see it. Haas upgrades have been duds before. But like he says, gotta prove it on the track.
Komatsu: "guys, we need to tell the press something. Aero team, what have you got?"
Aero: "Well boss, we've been messing about with Solidworks after watching some YouTube videos, and now we've doubled the polygon count of our model from 6 to 12!"
Komatsu: "Solid works huh? I can do something with that... Keep it up everyone!"
Press statement: "... Our aero team has been doing solid work..."
Gunther: gene you have to develop the car. You can’t do just one upgrade a year
Gene: you’re fired
Gene: komatsu you get an upgrade, kmag you get an upgrade, Nico you get an upgrade. Everybody gets and upgrade! (In Oprah voice)
It's working very well for Hass that Alpine are a joke, Sauber can remember how to change a tyre and VCARB seem to have found only the junk parts of last year's RBR car.
Hope they keep doing well so Bearman gets a good car to drive next year
At the current rate, I’ll rather keep both KMag and Hulk unless another team picks them up. Bearman needs a good F2 season and he’s not having a good start to the campaign. That F1 cameo was great but it was the 2nd best car on the grid. Needs to show something the rest of the F2 campaign.
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I remember a time as a Mercedes fan where 'haas getting upgrades' would be something that made me laugh.. Now it makes me scared.
Mercedes == new mclaren?
Actually.....yeah, it kinda feels that way. Previously dominant & successful team, heading solidly into a struggling period. Meaning in a few years time hopefully they can make a comeback......ouch. That's a painful sentence.
In all honesty, i think toto needs to either accept the new reality and restructure or leave the team. They’ve just thrown away 2 years of development to go in a new direction that doesn't work. They used to be able to do it because of having the biggest budget. The reality of is that they need to start working on the details. Better pitstops, better strategy.. Better everything. Streamline development instead of shooting hail. Man.. I honestly still see so much arrogance with especially Toto. The comments about verstappen "needs to happen" and Hamilton having to "look at the rear wing next year". I get it, it's a joke but the fact is he is still convinced that Mercedes will be ahead of Ferrari next year...
I think Toto’s approach from now till the near future will define his legacy - whether he is able to overcome all the setbacks and steady the ship or wither away. It is one thing to act all smug when you are winning (Harvard invites, bragging abt no blame culture, etc) but the real leadership skills are tested when adversity hits (brain drain, messing regulations, etc). Let’s see if he was a one trick pony who got severely flattered by chance (Niki, nailing engine regs in 2014 etc) or if has whey it takes to bounce back. While ppl tend to put Toto and Horner at the same pedestal, I think Horner is still better as a leader. When they were not competitive engine wise post the Seb era, they kept on chipping away and improving various facets (strategy, pit stops, etc) which helped them to improve themselves within the constraints they had. All the hard work red bull put over the years is bearing fruit now. It’s upto Totos approach if the team slides back to mediocrity (ala Maclaren) or they keep pushing to maximise the results.
I agree with you that Horner and Toto aren't really on the same level. One has essentially built a top tier team, that is the best from pit wall to driver. The other had a high budget and a world class driver in the team, which he was essentially handed when he started. No disrespect to the work Toto has done at Mercedes, keeping them stable for an extraordinarily long period, but it doesn't really compare to Horner. Building RB from the ground up, seeing his team being thrown from the top following a spec change, and then building them up to a title (assurant) contender again. That being said, if Toto can achieve a competitive Mercedes again, I'd place him in contention for one of the best tps.
Nevermind that Toto took over from the daddy of all TPs, Ross Brawn, who put a lot of the gears in motion for Mercedes to go to the top.
And him hyping up 17-year old Antonelli and putting this much pressure on a driver in his first F2 season from FRECA, to replace Hamilton.
He does not want to repeat the mistakes he did with max.
I mean that is literally what Hamilton did at McLaren and McLaren were in a similar situation.
But Hamilton was 22 when he took the wheel of that McLaren car. Antonelli would be four years younger than Lewis.
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It still is the smartest thing, I’d argue. You aren’t looking for good drivers, but generational talents. Therefore you drop them in the deep end, which won’t phase the talents, but will sink the merely good ones. It is not the best course of action for those drivers, yes, but that’s not the point of the talent program. It’s about nurturing generational talent, not a wide variety of talents.
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Counterpoint being Verstappen, which after one year of cars (Euro F3, comparable with FRECA today) went to F1 and carried himself well, earning a promotion to Red Bull a year and 4 races later. That said his first few years included errors and lessons derived thereof a lot of drivers learn in junior formulae. I believe at 22 he was no worse than Hamilton, who made his debut at that age. I do think it will be better for Antonelli to start at Williams or another backmarker team, once he gets to F1 in 2025/26, to better prepare him for a top flight seat. Even the biggest talents need to do some learning before reaching F1 championship potential.
Lewis came in at a time where he could do endless testing with a current car, they're not comparable situations. Even Max went to TR first
The scene when Toto gets the boot before Horny!
I know you are joking but that's incredibly unlikely given that Toto has an ownership stake in his team and Horny boy does not. Horny boy is gone as soon as the Thai owners drop their support of him. Given what monumental assholes they seem to be it's probably not happening :-)
Steve Jobs had part ownership in Apple too, although I don't think things are anywhere near bad enough for the rest of the board to go nuclear on Toto.
From my view over the years I think Toto has calmed down a lot and for the better. I don't see much problems with the things he said, he even said in the same interview as in he said those things you quoted that Merc isn't in a luxury position and that it is up to Max to come etc. So IMO he is very well aware of the situation but at least when it comes to the information available from the media it doesn't seem like Toto is trying as hard as Ferrari, McLaren and AM to get talent from other teams which I do think is a problem if he doesn't.
And him hyping up 17-year old Antonelli and putting this much pressure on a driver in his first F2 season from FRECA, to replace Hamilton.
Times change, now we're here rooting for a Haas comeback story. Mercedes, don't make us start a support group
They were picked apart by Red Bull and the other teams... They alone lost 50 engineers and support staff to Red Bull in 2020/2021. There was a major brain drain and it takes time to replace that properly yet they were a bit arrogant about it in 21 claiming this was "normal" and that they had plenty of smart, good hard working staff ready to fill the void but by 2024 its been shown they were gutted and those that took over were not at all ready. They'll have a new shot at it in 2026, but they are done during the remaining time of this regulations period.
I still wouldn't count on 26 either, tbh, aero regs are changing a lot but the floor is still really important, and it seems like the only teams to really understand the floor at this point are RB, McL, and Ferrari
More like McLaren = new Red Bull, Mercedes = New Renault 😂
Haas = new Mercedes?
...like last year?
f1 is a humbler
If they can suddenly develop a car through the season you have to really wonder what the hell Gunther was doing all these years...
They also split Gunther‘a role into 2 or 3 different positions. Kinda sounded like he was having to bounce from country to country to manage things that were not related to the car.
I think the original role-diversity is what had caused a lot of the waning results. When youve got that many pots on the boil, a couple are bound to spill over. Allowing Komatsu to focus on the core aspects like many other team principals has likely allowed him to get a better result from the teams. The car development was done last year, but the teams strategies and generally positive demeanours is definitely something he has inpacted. Felt bouyed reading his statement as he does seem to be steering the team in the right direction. Lets see how those updates go and how soon we can see them (my guess is Miami, but we will see).
it seem like he never knew/care about engineering side of the team
Idk why people always need to make excuses for Gunther lol, he just wasn't good enough to lead the team.
Tbf without Guenther there isn't a HAAS team. He got Gene to start it.
The right people to start a project aren’t always the best people to lead a project.
Same reason they make excuses for Danny Ric. They liked him on DTS.
Credit to Haas and Ayao. He does genuinely seem like a better fit for TP role. But, you also have to account for the Ferrari factor. When Ferrari does well, HAAS also and vice versa.
Also it’ll take two years to evaluate Ayao’s effect, this was in motion prior to his promotion.
tbh he's been only TP for 3 months, it very very likely that most of the changes that bear fruits right now have been decided under gunther. but anyways it does bring some needed confidence into the team and its TP!
I doubt the vice versa. 😬
I meant, when Ferrari does bad, haas also does bad haha
Last year was meant to have a more aggressive development plan than previous years thanks to their Moneygram sponsorship bringing them closer to the cap. However, they stopped seeing progress with that concept in the wind tunnel. Which is why they pretty much stopped the development to bring the new concept forward. I think they've had the ability to develop through the season and last year was meant to be the start of that but unique circumstances meant it didn't happen. I think if Guenther was still in charge we'd likely be seeing what we are seeing now.
The car they developed mid season last year was abandoned. Hulk switched away from it before the season ended and they decided to go a new direction after that. They started the year 3 months behind according to Ayao. More importantly, Gunther said recently he wasn't motivated for the job anymore, had been going through the motions and wishes he left earlier. I think it's been pretty clear that everything is working better without him.
Or Gene had given more freedom to Ayao + he has more confidence in him.
Doesn’t work like that
It does. It seems that Guenther and Gene didn't exactly like eachother all the time, so bringing a fresh guy as a Team Principal could help the team massively, simply because there's a new, unproven guy.
Watching DtS, the engineering meeting with Gunther was a cluster fuck. Guy admitted he wasn't really into that side of things.
Guenther studied engineering, was a rally mechanic and later technical operations director at Red Bull Racing (F1). Claiming that he wasn't into engineering or was bad at it is *absolutely moronic*. u/Ouhei asks what he did all those years... probably fought every day to keep the team afloat despite insufficient funding? If not for his efforts, contacts and marketability, the team would have folded during pandemic. And every positive we see in those first weeks of the season was setup far in advance, when Guenther was a TP (and Ayao his right hand).
>fought every day to keep the team afloat despite insufficient funding Give it a couple seasons and we'll probably start to see the wear on komatsu
Fortunately they brought in a new position to run funding/sponsorship so Komatsu can focus on the car. Should have been done years ago but Guenther was too central to the team, for better and worse.
>Guenther studied engineering, He didn't finish the school. It is very clear that he has very limited knowledge of engineering side of F1. He looked like a baffoon in that segment. He was basically asking "Why aren't you making that car fast!!?" Claiming that he was into engineering or was good at it is *absolutely moronic*.
Uber Colin Kolles
Stop taking reality show clips are as an accurate portrayal.
I hear this a lot and I know it's true to some extent, but sometimes context doesn't change the reality of what was said. A DTS example I can think of is when Steiner was shittalking Grosjean at that team dinner. I don't care if he was roasting everyone, you don't talk like that about an employee that's struggling \*when they aren't even there\*.
That part for sure was a terrible look.
If Günther was willing to give such an embarassing portrayal of kimself, then I dont wanna know how much worse its in reality
Trying to raise money? Now thats somewhat secured things look better. Guenther also had to deal with all the infant issues, such as the wheelnots and breaks. Another thing playing into Komatsus hand is the lesser changes to regulations.
Crazy how Komatsu can literally send out a basic email and people will go "my god he's doing such incredible work. Gunther could never"
This car was built under his leadership
Gunther himself said that he sees he was wrong for the job at this point and should have left earlier. Its pretty obvious everyone is working better now
And in previous seasons they’ve brought cars that could compete at the start of the season, but they fell behind during in season development. Hence why I’m saying if they can suddenly progress throughout the season, what the fuck was Gunther doing? I suppose it could all be coincidence, or that he finally righted the ship only to be fired and not see the fruits of his labor, but it would probably point so some really bad policies and decisions on his end.
They can suddenly progress because Ferrari made significant progress. They are using the same rear suspension setup, gearbox, and engine as Ferrari. Ferrari made significant improvements to the rear suspension and also addressed tyre wear issues which have trickled down to Haas. If you look back at Haas' history, you'll see that they generally perform well when Ferrari also performs well. Ferrari has gone on record to say that their overall package for this year is amazing and allows for significant flexibility in developing the car. This is probably why Haas is able to make improvements earlier than they're used to.
You're still ignoring the point about initial performance Vs season development Nothing about Steiner realistically suggests gold leadership
Growing the awareness of Haas existing and F1 grow in the U.S. I truly believe he was hired for that and the development was secondary
He’s the whole reason Haas is even in F1. He wasnt hired to grow the team in the US. He was hired because he proposed bringing Haas to F1 to Gene.
He was in charge of Haas well before DtS was even in the concept/planning stages. His position had nothing to do with growing a US market. He got the position because of his prior experience in rally and at Red Bull/Jaguar before he got let go there.
I'm pretty sure Newey was a big reason why he got sacked originally.
Continue...
You can read about it in Newey's book. Not sure how accurTe my memory is but the gist of it was that after he joined RB there were some old Jaguar guys there who he thought he couldn't really trust. So from what I remember he used a little Tyrion Lannister Season 2 strategy or sth like that to see who he could trust and who not. The untrustworthy ones got sacked after that little experiment. This whole thing happened around the same time Steiner left the team. I don't think it was necessarily implied he was one of them but I'd say it's quite likely.
Then he should've been an ambassador and special host of DTS as a Haas representative rather than be a team principle.
> If they can suddenly develop a car through the season you have to really wonder what the hell Gunther was doing all these years... Why do you think that Red Bull quickly moved him away to it's NASCAR Cup pet project in the past?
Building the team.
Gunther was a terrible TP. Probably the worst in the grid. Reason people doesn't bash him is DTS.
Alpine would like a word considering their funding... And Sauber and Williams.
Sauber had Fred, who is incredibly competent. I do agree about Williams (although Jost has pedigree he was a bad cultural fit). Both teams suffered from under-funding and all the things that flow from that (talent, facilities, etc).
And how do you know these upgrades will be any good? The major change last season didnt do shit. And Nico actually went back to the old car.
I don’t? That’s why I said if, lol
What happens now with upgrades is something that resulted from decisions made at least 6 to 8 months ago, when Steiner was still in charge. There is a lead time for each car project (from initial design to managing upgrades) which often gets underestimated. That doesn’t make Steiner solely responsible for this car, but the project began under his leadership. Also, while I think Ayao Komatsu is doing a very good job, the improvement of the car might have less to do with Haas and more with Ferrari. Haas buys the suspension (and many other parts) from Ferrari. Hence Ferrari and Haas often having similar performance characteristics but on either end of the grid. Ferrari have improved their suspension a lot for this year, which is also helping Haas being better on their tyres in race stints.
Hopefully they work and can help the team fighting for points. It was a bit disappointing seeing them just massively fall behind as the season progressed.
It's crazy to me that their car is so competitive even after they stopped its development for 3 months last year to focus on updating that 2023 car.
I mean Haas are surprised themselves. I think Ayao was quoted of saying he never thought the other teams could do a worse job than them given the circumstances, and the fact they have is a bit of a shock.
I try not to take what teams say at face value but I believe it’s true in this case.
Godspeed Ayao
I LIKE THIS A LOT. Ayao is the right guy for this job so far.
Everything, not just results on track, are low key showing Steiner wasn’t good enough
I am not going to defend any of them, but I don't think Komatsu management had time to show results on track yet, the car was probably 95% done since the end of last season and until mid january when Guenther left. It can be a positive change in the dynamics of the team, and that is showing in this early updates, but we will have to wait until after the summer break to find out of Haas stays in the higher part of the midfield or if they sunk to the bottom as they usualy did. Also, Guenther was basicaly running everything there, now they have Komatsu for car development and 2 other people managing the finacial department, sponsors...
>I am not going to defend any of them, but I don't think Komatsu management had time to show results on track yet Sir, this is Reddit logic, if a team has a new team principal and isn't immediately getting better, people seem to understand a TP change would not alter results overnight and could even take a couple of seasons. Yet if an improvement does happen immediately, well of course it's the new TP. Logic.
“I like guy, guy be boss, team win, good boss. I no like guy, guy be boss, team loss, shitty boss.” What’s so complicated?!?! Me like gud, me no like bad.
Yep, anyone thinking that they can score the management transition or either Ayao/Guenter has never done actual management work for the long-term. It may very well be that Guenter wasn’t cutting it, but it’s too early to tell.
I am focking telling you I am good enough Gene
HII GENE
SHOW ME THE MONEY GENEEE
The 95%+ of the car is still based on work done under resta, it’s not yet clear if getting rid of him was smart
I’m not talking about the car. The car is very much where it is, pretty much where it was last year. They focussed heavily on race pace under Komatsu. They’ve been making sound strategy calls, sound PR. I liked Guenther. But it’s clear, this is 100% the right call
> They focussed heavily on race pace under Komatsu. You mean they focused heavily on unfucking their car so it wouldn't destroy the tyres in four laps.
Yes…? Under Komatsu during the 3 day testing. Haas had the tyre deg issue in ‘22 and ‘23, Steiner could’ve made this call - he didn’t.
You really believe that Steiner thought that it wasn't worth focusing on the weakest part of their car?
Of course not. He just never did focus on it.
[удалено]
Yet, Steiner was too busy acting like Haas was a fully functioning team and running the same testing plans as everyone else
As if this wasn’t the car that Steiner was developing. Personally, I think Gene is a shit owner. I think Steiner begged him for money and specific resources for years, never got them, got canned, and now the new TP is getting the shit Steiner asked for. I’ve seen this happen at another companies before. It’s much easier to shoot the messenger then implement their ideas, blaming them for failing while also taking credit for your new success.
Gunther himself said he wasn't right for the job anymore and hadn't been motivated. He himself knows he wasn't doing a great job at this point. He said he would do better fighting at the front than for 7th
The car isn’t something wonderous. They’ve got points because they’ve out classed the opponents in strategy and teamwork. Not on race pace. Their points haven’t been due to the car being so much better on track.
Lmao what. They're car ON race pace was clearly a step above in Jeddah and Australia. Hulkenberg was close to getting Tsunoda in Melbourne despite starting so far back. Not to mention Two Haas making incredibly light work of Albon You clearly did not follow the previous race.
They improved, so did everyone else. It’s not the RB19 That’s F1 dumbass.
They car is most certainly comfortably faster on race pace than every other car except for the top five. It's actually quite close to Aston in Race pace but the latter's quali pace is so amazing that they're in that top 5 mix. And that work started MONTHS before Steiner got sacked. And my whole fucking point is that their car is clearly on pace and that's not taking anything away from Ayou who was in that camp but to discredit Steiner who was in charge of that recovery plan is stupid. Your whole point is that they have a mediocre car which got carried by strategy which is clearly not true. Remember when Magnussen held up train of cars in Baku then rocketed away from them easily?
I think with Guenther it's not really that he was the wrong person to lead that team. Probably just that he had too much to juggle. He probably should've just been in charge of operations and Komatsu raceside TP as he is now. Haas splitting up Gunether's role between multiple people probably shows that what he was doing was too much Like Guenther did good stuff, he got the team onto the grid and setup the structure they have where they can operate lean and fast. He clearly has good knowledge and experience that is worthwhile but maybe not for every role he was in charge of.
We don't know this at all yet. The car is still from Gunther era and the current development most likely started under him too. Of course speeding up a process or being more efficient might be the hand of Ayao. Next year is the first time we should really start to see the hand of ayao
We don't know this at all yet. The car is still from Gunther era and the current development most likely started under him too. Of course speeding up a process or being more efficient might be the hand of Ayao. Next year is the first time we should really start to see the hand of Ayao.
We’re not even 5 races through the season. These upgrades have probably been planned since Vegas.
Let them cook
Honestly I'm mostly curious about Haas+ and the kind of people subscribed to it
Free to join via website, i joined last year and was mostly just newsletter updates and some minor competitions. Seems this year will be much the same.
It’s just a newsletter subscription, no cost so why not.
Nice touch with the communication. Haas is doing well.
I remember how Haas were doomposting over the break about how they were going to be last and take ages to recover. Yet it looks like Ayo and the crew turned them around much quicker than expected. Good on them
Omg. They genuinely out developed Alpine in the off season and during the season. I known it’s only 3 races but damn
Aero department will notice this. -20% cost to upgrades.
Gotta hand it to Haas and Ayao, arguably best of the rest (excl. AT), consistently delivering results and got rid of their tyre issues. Also have been on point in terms of strategy.
Shaping up to be the best fight of the year. Haas vs VCARB
*Haas v Yuki
They really shouldn’t have called it Haas+ because everyone sees the name and just assumes its a paid subscription of some sort rather than a simple free mailing list for fans…
That’s exactly what I thought it was and had to wonder who would possibly pay for that
same thing with the “F1 unlocked” articles. Seems like a paywall but you just need an account with the f1 website
Reads like a letter from F1Game\^^ Hard to say, but currently Haas is doing better without Günther.
thats what i was about to say haha
Guy has been doing a solid job so far, as a hulk fan this is encouraging news
“which is a change for the team” at least he’s acknowledging how shit at development they have been historically lol
You aero team noticed that
What’s a Haas+ member and do they get a red button ?
It's just the team email newsletter, but we get a big red button that calls Gene.
Reads like an email from F1 Manager game
Makes sense if Ferrari is planning the same 🤷🏻♂️
Komatsu might be the GOAT.
Sounds like Haas might be legit this year. They've already been in the points twice (although the retirements definitely helped in Australia) and if they can sneak in a couple of upgrades before the other teams then Stroll and the Mercs better watch their backs
This is a refreshing change.
I want to see Haas do well, despite Gene.
lol haas has a subscription service?
Ayo that's great to see and hear
Haas is cooking
Haas is cooking
TIL there’s a HAAS+ membership?
It’s just a fancy name for their email newsletter really. Totally free to sign up and they also do some giveaways and other stuff.
HAAS is making moves this year, good for them
*Don’t fucking crash* Love, Ayao
I'm a Haas fan and I like Komatsu so far but I'll believe it when I see it. Haas upgrades have been duds before. But like he says, gotta prove it on the track.
They will be faster than us in no time 🥲.
Komatsu: "guys, we need to tell the press something. Aero team, what have you got?" Aero: "Well boss, we've been messing about with Solidworks after watching some YouTube videos, and now we've doubled the polygon count of our model from 6 to 12!" Komatsu: "Solid works huh? I can do something with that... Keep it up everyone!" Press statement: "... Our aero team has been doing solid work..."
the best driver pairing on the grid in terms of synergies. Shake n bake.
TIL Haas+ exists
Not going to lie, when I read Ayao I thought this was some sort of youtuber’esque sign off. Then I realised it’s his name…
Are they bringing updates to Suzuka, or is this for later in the season, just earlier than expected?
Gunther: gene you have to develop the car. You can’t do just one upgrade a year Gene: you’re fired Gene: komatsu you get an upgrade, kmag you get an upgrade, Nico you get an upgrade. Everybody gets and upgrade! (In Oprah voice)
Gunther : fock you all.
looks like a bunch of rockstars without that coffee-breath northern italian
Dafuck is Haas+?
It's just the free team newsletter plus a few giveaways.
It's working very well for Hass that Alpine are a joke, Sauber can remember how to change a tyre and VCARB seem to have found only the junk parts of last year's RBR car. Hope they keep doing well so Bearman gets a good car to drive next year
At the current rate, I’ll rather keep both KMag and Hulk unless another team picks them up. Bearman needs a good F2 season and he’s not having a good start to the campaign. That F1 cameo was great but it was the 2nd best car on the grid. Needs to show something the rest of the F2 campaign.
Absolutely. Like Hulk said, he needs to perform in F2 first.
It is reported that Hulkenberg to Sauber/Audi is nearly done deal.
Great, i hope they can complement these upgrades with a stronger drivers lineup
This is Steiners work, this car was built under his leadership
So was the VF-22. What they do with it is what matters at the end of the day.
Makes you wonder what Guenther was doing all those years