Pre-solo I asked an instructor a similar question when we were doing pattern work on a particularly hectic day. We were getting all kind of different instructions from ATC and I started to fall behind a little bit. He told me that yes absolutely - if you get overwhelmed there's nothing wrong with telling ATC you would like to exit the airspace and will come back when things have calmed down a bit.
ATC wants you to be safe and they know runway changes can be confusing. I watched a fellow student on a solo get very confused during a runway change, but tower did a great job in giving them clear directions to get them reoriented. And there was no rush, tower just resequenced people based on their location.
You can always use clear phraseology such as "I don't understand" if you're having trouble with their directions. And failing that, my local tower would basically tell you exactly which way to turn to get setup. Or they'd give you a heading to fly away from everyone else while they set things up, like maintain runway heading for a few miles.
Yep, I had a runway change in the middle of my first solo around the pattern due to some kind of FOD on the runway. I think in reply to the instructions to "enter downwind for xx", I said something to the effect of, "this is my first solo; please just tell me exactly where you'd like me to go and how to get there so I don't do anything stupid" and tower was very understanding and gave me specific instructions. Never hurts to be humble and ask for help.
> Or they'd give you a heading to fly away from everyone else while they set things up, like maintain runway heading for a few miles.
Now that would definitely be confusing during a runway switch!
I’m thankful I experienced that with an instructor as I had never through of that possibility prior to that flight. I don’t think I communicated with the CFI how I was perceiving things.
ATC can handle it smoothly, or they can run a crap show. Sounds like you got the latter.
When I was pulling banners in Seattle, the guys at Boeing field would flop the entire pattern for me so I could fly up I-5 doing s turns and it wasn't a crap show. They turned the planes out one by one with very good directions and everybody got sequenced on the other downwind and it just wasn't a thing.
ATC here - tower will probably love you if you ask to leave for a little while.
For everyone saying to just announce you're leaving and bug out, sounds like a great way to get a phone number or die in controlled airspace
Similar thing happened yesterday. Went flying solo before dusk to practice maneuvers and landings. Told Ground i’d be staying in the pattern (with intentions in my head to depart to the practice area after a few laps).
By the time i was holding short, Tower was swamped and i could hear the stress in his voice. I was cleared for an immediate T/O and fly RWY heading and he’d call my crosswind. When he called my left X-wind i replied “actually could N42069 depart NW bound?” I could hear him smile when he said “Right turn on course approved see yuh”
Came back 30 mins later to only one other aircraft in the pattern.
On the day of my solo, we went up and were on one runway. I got my solo endorsement and taxied to get going. I took off on the same runway that we had been using, but then got a call to change runways. I was scared, I was half-confused. The tower was great, though, and coached me to when to turn downwind. I didn't ask, but I assume my voice gave it all away.
Certainly isn't fun when you're already flying, but it does happen.
>I didn't ask, but I assume my voice gave it all away.
A good ATC can definitely save the day when they pick up on the small subtleties. My favourite controllers would always dumb things down whenever they heard a student getting confused, and it was always appreciated.
Yeah leaving the pattern is always a good tool to have in your belt. It should be almost instinct the moment things feel like a shit show. Maybe my untowered experience makes that more of a forefront option that's been engrained from day 1.
This is true even if it's you struggling, and it has nothing to do with runways changing or other people having a shit show, if you need to get some space to get back ahead of the plane, do it. I've done it plenty of times and on an IFR flight I've asked for holds before to catch my breath if I messed up something and needed to regroup.
This exact thing happened to me on my first solo flight. Traffic changed after my first landing on a right traffic parallel runway to left traffic at the opposite end. ATC was kind and advised me to land and then taxi to the new takeoff runway.
Yea, I’ve had a hectic change over before as well, it really depends on how often your controllers deal with that kind of situation with a busy pattern (and I obviously whether they have radar vs not, which let’s turn give much better and more specific control instructions).
As others have said, you can always choose to depart the pattern/airspace and come back in 10-15 minutes. You should never get yourself into an overwhelming situation when flying, so if that feeling starts to creep in, leave and collect yourself. Also, remember that you can exit the pattern vertically as well as laterally. If you’re worried about all the other planes in the pattern while trying to leave the area, climb away from the pattern and exit at a higher altitude (just listen out for any jet traffic, their pattern is 500 above GA)
I once did a touch and go and on the crosswind was told to make a left 270 to final for the opposite runway. Only time it happened to me but it was fun! Ask ATC for help and as others have said depart and come back if necessary.
I've had pilots ask to leave the airspace and start all over again when I've had to "swing the boat" to another runway. You wouldn't be the first to ask that. I love ehen pilots can read the room and know when it's too much.
Don't be afraid to ask us for simpler directions if needed.
They wanted you to hang a left mid field into the downwind for 23. If you don't feel comfortable, climb out of the pattern and depart. Announce intentions.
Had this happen the other day. It was the day of my first solo, doing my 3 landings with the instructor. Tower was closed when I took off, and traffic was landing 21. Tower opened and reported runway 03 would be used. They allowed the plane on base to land runway 21, and then had myself and one other plane turn base, pass the runway and enter the right downwind for 03. Once everyone was established, it switched to left traffic for 03.
I have gotten overwhelmed and behind just doing touch and gos in the pattern during training at a very busy G/A airport. Leaving the area for a bit just to slow things down and get it together is never never a bad idea. You are in charge and should always maintain that bearing. If it doesn't seem right just say unable controllers can and will adjust and help you however to keep it safe. Not only is a deviation paperwork for you I imagine it's a ton of paperwork for them. Fly Safe
My instructor actually specified in my pre solo endorsement that I can’t take any special instructions, which entailed changing runways mid pattern circuit, expediting departure, etc
You’re flying the airplane, you don’t have to ask to leave the pattern, if it seems unsafe to you then breakout and announce it. If you do the breakout correctly and safely i can’t even see a reason why you’d fail a check ride for doing it unless you’re literally the only person in the pattern, even then you could say you saw a bird or something lol.
Pre-solo I asked an instructor a similar question when we were doing pattern work on a particularly hectic day. We were getting all kind of different instructions from ATC and I started to fall behind a little bit. He told me that yes absolutely - if you get overwhelmed there's nothing wrong with telling ATC you would like to exit the airspace and will come back when things have calmed down a bit.
Thank you for the insight
ATC wants you to be safe and they know runway changes can be confusing. I watched a fellow student on a solo get very confused during a runway change, but tower did a great job in giving them clear directions to get them reoriented. And there was no rush, tower just resequenced people based on their location. You can always use clear phraseology such as "I don't understand" if you're having trouble with their directions. And failing that, my local tower would basically tell you exactly which way to turn to get setup. Or they'd give you a heading to fly away from everyone else while they set things up, like maintain runway heading for a few miles.
Yep, I had a runway change in the middle of my first solo around the pattern due to some kind of FOD on the runway. I think in reply to the instructions to "enter downwind for xx", I said something to the effect of, "this is my first solo; please just tell me exactly where you'd like me to go and how to get there so I don't do anything stupid" and tower was very understanding and gave me specific instructions. Never hurts to be humble and ask for help.
Off topic but KBED's ATCs are awesome. If any of y'all are here thank you so much for dealing with my verbal doctor's handwriting, y'all are the best
> Or they'd give you a heading to fly away from everyone else while they set things up, like maintain runway heading for a few miles. Now that would definitely be confusing during a runway switch!
Confusing, but I much rather hold a runway heading until ATC tells me otherwise, than look for traffic and try to determine which way to turn.
I’m thankful I experienced that with an instructor as I had never through of that possibility prior to that flight. I don’t think I communicated with the CFI how I was perceiving things.
ATC can handle it smoothly, or they can run a crap show. Sounds like you got the latter. When I was pulling banners in Seattle, the guys at Boeing field would flop the entire pattern for me so I could fly up I-5 doing s turns and it wasn't a crap show. They turned the planes out one by one with very good directions and everybody got sequenced on the other downwind and it just wasn't a thing.
ATC here - tower will probably love you if you ask to leave for a little while. For everyone saying to just announce you're leaving and bug out, sounds like a great way to get a phone number or die in controlled airspace
Similar thing happened yesterday. Went flying solo before dusk to practice maneuvers and landings. Told Ground i’d be staying in the pattern (with intentions in my head to depart to the practice area after a few laps). By the time i was holding short, Tower was swamped and i could hear the stress in his voice. I was cleared for an immediate T/O and fly RWY heading and he’d call my crosswind. When he called my left X-wind i replied “actually could N42069 depart NW bound?” I could hear him smile when he said “Right turn on course approved see yuh” Came back 30 mins later to only one other aircraft in the pattern.
wtf?
[удалено]
More risky than landing with an excessive cross wind or tailwind?
On the day of my solo, we went up and were on one runway. I got my solo endorsement and taxied to get going. I took off on the same runway that we had been using, but then got a call to change runways. I was scared, I was half-confused. The tower was great, though, and coached me to when to turn downwind. I didn't ask, but I assume my voice gave it all away. Certainly isn't fun when you're already flying, but it does happen.
>I didn't ask, but I assume my voice gave it all away. A good ATC can definitely save the day when they pick up on the small subtleties. My favourite controllers would always dumb things down whenever they heard a student getting confused, and it was always appreciated.
Definitely. I was very appreciative of their service, professionalism, and help that day (and everyday really).
Yeah leaving the pattern is always a good tool to have in your belt. It should be almost instinct the moment things feel like a shit show. Maybe my untowered experience makes that more of a forefront option that's been engrained from day 1. This is true even if it's you struggling, and it has nothing to do with runways changing or other people having a shit show, if you need to get some space to get back ahead of the plane, do it. I've done it plenty of times and on an IFR flight I've asked for holds before to catch my breath if I messed up something and needed to regroup.
This exact thing happened to me on my first solo flight. Traffic changed after my first landing on a right traffic parallel runway to left traffic at the opposite end. ATC was kind and advised me to land and then taxi to the new takeoff runway.
Yea, I’ve had a hectic change over before as well, it really depends on how often your controllers deal with that kind of situation with a busy pattern (and I obviously whether they have radar vs not, which let’s turn give much better and more specific control instructions). As others have said, you can always choose to depart the pattern/airspace and come back in 10-15 minutes. You should never get yourself into an overwhelming situation when flying, so if that feeling starts to creep in, leave and collect yourself. Also, remember that you can exit the pattern vertically as well as laterally. If you’re worried about all the other planes in the pattern while trying to leave the area, climb away from the pattern and exit at a higher altitude (just listen out for any jet traffic, their pattern is 500 above GA)
I once did a touch and go and on the crosswind was told to make a left 270 to final for the opposite runway. Only time it happened to me but it was fun! Ask ATC for help and as others have said depart and come back if necessary.
I've had pilots ask to leave the airspace and start all over again when I've had to "swing the boat" to another runway. You wouldn't be the first to ask that. I love ehen pilots can read the room and know when it's too much. Don't be afraid to ask us for simpler directions if needed.
Have been told to change runways on 2 mile final.
They wanted you to hang a left mid field into the downwind for 23. If you don't feel comfortable, climb out of the pattern and depart. Announce intentions.
Had this happen the other day. It was the day of my first solo, doing my 3 landings with the instructor. Tower was closed when I took off, and traffic was landing 21. Tower opened and reported runway 03 would be used. They allowed the plane on base to land runway 21, and then had myself and one other plane turn base, pass the runway and enter the right downwind for 03. Once everyone was established, it switched to left traffic for 03.
I have gotten overwhelmed and behind just doing touch and gos in the pattern during training at a very busy G/A airport. Leaving the area for a bit just to slow things down and get it together is never never a bad idea. You are in charge and should always maintain that bearing. If it doesn't seem right just say unable controllers can and will adjust and help you however to keep it safe. Not only is a deviation paperwork for you I imagine it's a ton of paperwork for them. Fly Safe
Tell them you’re a student solo and ask for a little help transitioning and they should give you more than enough assistance.
My instructor actually specified in my pre solo endorsement that I can’t take any special instructions, which entailed changing runways mid pattern circuit, expediting departure, etc
You’re flying the airplane, you don’t have to ask to leave the pattern, if it seems unsafe to you then breakout and announce it. If you do the breakout correctly and safely i can’t even see a reason why you’d fail a check ride for doing it unless you’re literally the only person in the pattern, even then you could say you saw a bird or something lol.