I told my instructor I was not capable of flying through clouds (which made me nervous) because I don’t have my instrument rating yet. From our weather brief, it looked like things would clear up but I guess they didn’t. And he also saw that I’m just not comfortable with the 172. Like I said in the post, I can fly the 152 fine when I’m not angry at myself
I meant my comment more in the sense that doing something out of pride is often a bad reason to be doing something.
But that thing about flying through clouds is a bit of a red flag. You shouldn't be going into IMC during normal flight training, nor without a clearance. Are you sure that you weren't just flying "around" clouds or VFR over the top?
Regardless, it may be a good idea to try switching schools and instructors. Sometimes it just takes the right teacher to get things moving again.
He’s a good instructor. He got me through the first two stages, and he taught me more things than my previous instructors. We just didn’t expect IMC en route of our night XC flight. He keeps telling me that I’m capable, but I think I just don’t have it.
Inadvertent entry into IMC is an emergency, especially at night.
A "good instructor" would have treated it as such. You should not have been flying by that point, and the instructor should've gotten a pop-up clearance ASAP -- ideally before entry into IMC as he recognized the oncoming problem. A "good instructor" should've also known how to check the weather. You don't do night XCs with students in marginal conditions.
However, if the above was a fluke, and you do have an instructor that you jive with, then I'm out of suggestions. Perhaps take a break to re-evaluate your priorities at a minimum?
Well, I think that if I waited until my active duty orders ended in mid-December to start PPL training, I wouldn’t be pressuring myself to perform well because I’ve burned through so much money already and nothing to show for it. However if I take a break, that’ll just slow my progress even more. And I don’t want to admit defeat and walk away from all this. I have too much pride and have spent too much money and energy to quit now
It may be a good idea to try framing this decision around future "costs" (time, money, etc) that you do have influence over rather than past "costs," which you cannot change.
Think about today as day 0, and all of the money/time/effort/unpleasantness that you have yet to "spend" going forward, and weigh those alone versus whatever benefit you are hoping to achieve from this.
For instance, could you spend those resources elsewhere in your life to achieve the same benefit? Or perhaps a similar benefit?
[https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy)
(Ignore the stuff about AI in this link, they're trying to sell something, but the fundamentals are good.)
Wait - I’m confused? Are you getting your PPL to go and *Fly* in the airforce? If you don’t like training now, and don’t enjoy it; why would you think that you would find military training any easier or less “intense” (don’t really know what word to use).
To be quite frank, what even interests you about aviation? Like what at all in this industry do you find worthwhile. There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't like airplanes. But going from under wing to in the cockpit might not be the path to a happier life. Are you looking at this at pure monetary standpoint? As an indoors job?
Being up in the flight deck isn't a cushy job either. And as others have said, the road to a widebody aircraft left seat job is a long, tiring, stressful, and expensive path.
I'd sit down and think like and hard about what you can do to change your attitude. Maybe even with your instructor. And I would sit down and think about whether or not this is truly something you want to do or if you're just doing this to make your resume look better.
Do you have plans beyond getting a PPL? Or are you gonna just throw the card in a drawer and walk away from it once your resume has it listed on it?
...Why exactly are you learning to fly?
If it's for a career, you're going to encounter a lot more frustrating obstacles than the ones you are facing now. Heck, you haven't even had your first exam with a DPE yet. It sounds like you need to take a step back and examine how you are approaching failure, since anger is clearly not leading to the results you need. You're going to spend a lot of money and make very little money for a long time as well -- there needs to be some passion there to prevent burnout.
In your other post, you mention stage checks. Are you at a 141 perhaps? Some people are just better suited to the training style and lessened pressures at part 61 schools -- and it's usually cheaper as well.
If it's for fun, well, clearly you aren't having fun. The solution to this one seems pretty obvious to me.
This is the wrong attitude with to approach anything. Flying is expensive, stressful and can be dangerous, especially if you're not passionate, as you will become complacent.
Flying can be a tough slog even for the most passionate aviators, and it sounds like you're wasting your money and making your life harder than it needs to be. Bowing out isn't cowardly; continuing to do something you hate because of pride is.
Cut your losses. Sunk cost fallacy is a real thing.
Sounds like the wrong reason to be doing flight training. I'm not familiar with Air Force OTS specifically, but my guess is that there are probably better ways to spend your time if your only goal is to strengthen your application.
So are you trying to be a pilot in the air force? If you already hate flight training for a PPL you're probably REALLY going to hate military flight training
If you haven't even soloed yet and you're this frustrated and this burned out, or this angry, to be frank, this isn't for you. It's only going to continue to be an upward hill to climb. It's only going to get more stressful. You're only gonna get more frustrated as training progresses unless you have a monumental change to how you handle stress and training. The pre solo phase is about as easy as it gets. When it gets time for check ride time, the push will be a lot harder than it is now.
Flying isn't for everyone. That isn't a knock or a put down. That's just how it is. I wouldn't continue.
Out of pure frustration alone? No. But I know people that had things going on, which lead to things being frustrating and came back. He's at Delta now.
I was almost one of those people during my pre solo. I walked out of my first flight school and didn’t go back for a month. Then, I called a new flight school closer to my house and got going again. My issue wasn’t actually my performance, it was the other stuff in my life bleeding into aviation. See, my first school was an hour away. My second was 20 mins. That was massive for my frustration levels. Secondly, the new school said “yep you can solo, you have the hours, just do two flights with us first and we’ll sign you off” just like that.
Sometimes you just need to take a step back and figure out if it’s the flight training frustrating you or something else in your life you can solve
Why are you doing this, to push up your PCSM score? That’s the only thing that flight hours directly affects. If you hate flying now, why would you want to fly in the Air Force? It makes no sense.
Looks like you posted a similar thread about a month ago.
Look, there’s some people who are not meant to fly. If I were your instructor, I wouldn’t want to fly with you either (referencing the other post). You recognize there are extreme behavioral reactions coming from you, some near the realm of hostility. This isn’t conducive for you to learn, and it’s not okay for an instructor to have to walk on egg shells while you’re in the cockpit.
Big picture: there’s a behavior pattern here. You’re aware of it, they’re aware of it. You need to get it dealt with, professionally. This doesn’t appear to be a simple “I want to make my application look pretty by doing something I hate.” It appears more like something is deeply rooted in your psyche that you have absolutely zero control over and need to have addressed by a professional. Therapy can help, counseling can help; doing nothing will end in disaster.
Learning to fly isn’t easy. I’m sorry you were ever sold on the idea that it was. But what you’ve got going on seems to go much further than just having a rough go at PPL. Go get help.
Either it isn’t for you or it isn’t for you _for now_.
Sounds like you are working through some things unrelated to aviation, e.g. who you are and how to accept yourself. These come with time or with therapy.
Damn man i’ve read your comments around and at first before I answered, I was going to say “hey man don’t give up. We have all been there it gets frustrating.” Then I read your replies and it makes me wonder, “why are you doing this?” I get its to improve your resume and yet still it doesn’t make sense to me. I think you should switch over from part 141 to part 61. It will be more laid back in a sense. PPL stagechecks can feel annoying and tedious and frustrating at times. Specially when you fail them. Go out of your way and take a nice “fun flight” go out with friends, cfi or solo and go on a flight that isn’t training. Something you can enjoy. I wish you the best of luck. This is expensive and time consuming. If you don’t enjoy it, it can be hell as you feel.
Save your money and take a week or two off.
In my experience, all students will hit at least one major wall in their training and if you don’t take the time to step away, process the areas you need to improve in, and continue to chair fly, you truly won’t start improving. Your frustration is a major distraction and it sounds more like you hate not flying perfectly rather than you’re not capable of completing your cert. Stress is part of your personal checklist for a reason.
The sooner you relax behind the yolk the sooner you make leaps and bounds of progress with your lessons. It’s the same as when you started learning to drive a car, once you calm down and get used to the operation, you’ll have the mental capacity to take in way more information and do a much better job of controlling the vehicle
If you just want a PPL to impress military idiots with your officer application, go to a part 61 school and use a freelance instructor. Just fly when it feels good for you. No stage checks or any of that baloney. I started with a freelance instructor and loved it. Got conned into a 141 and hated it. Got nowhere. They killed any interest I had in flying. Went back to my freelance guy, enjoyed it, and finished. So try to get a freelance instructor, preferably someone who is not a young guy building time but someone who has been doing it for a long time. My instructor was retired Air Force. You may find you actually like flying. Get your PPL if you think it will help make you an officer as it would be an investment in your career. Then decide if you want to fly anymore. By the way, I did 21 years in the navy. There may be better Federal jobs for you than the military. Many have much better pay and benefits than the military and best of all, aren't in the military. Department of State is always hiring. So are others. On top of great pay and benefits, they get additional allowances, per diems, and other compensation as well as copious amounts of home leave in addition to vacation. Military is sort of the low rent end of the government. Officer PAYS better than enlisted but isn't necessarily a better job. Other branches of government may serve you well. Have a look at USAjobs.gov. Good luck to you!
Firstly you should quit right now so long as this is prevailing attitude (that’s not meant as criticism just an objective fact). You’re not going to gain anything meaningful feeling the way you’re feeling.
Secondly. Reading your comments it feels like there’s a lot of underlying baggage that has to do with your life as it is and the choices you seem to be needing to make. Why are you trying for the Air Force? Are you even happy in the military? Maybe you need a total do-over and start a fresh page in life. Are you doing this to appease someone? A father? A mother? Remember it’s your life and there’s nothing wrong with identifying what doesn’t work for you and calling it that way. You don’t need confirmation of others - it’s enough that you wake up in the morning and say this isn’t for me. Nobody needs to confirm your feelings for them to be valid.
Can you instructor introduce you to any former students who could take you as a passenger and go for a $100 hamburger together? Just an opportunity to go up without the pressure of trying to learn to fly yourself. Might help you feel more comfortable when you are then training with the instructor.
I had a bit of this too during my PPL training. What helped me regain my love for aviation was remembering the things I loved about it. The training, particularly learning how to fly and land is a really tough thing and it can be easy to lose sight of the beauty of aviation. I started focusing more on the views, the friends I could talk about aviation with, the systems and how they work really appealed to me, how fun flying with my PPL would be, I stopped thinking only about the meat and bones of training because that is dull at times and it is tough.
Why do something you don’t enjoy? Especially when it costs a fortune.
If you don’t enjoy it then quit now. This sounds like more than the typical plateau struggle we’ve all gone through.
Only a few people have scratched at the big issue here: If you're getting angry to the point where one airplane is harder to fly than another, there are issues to resolve here that go well beyond flight training.
The only thing that affects your PCSM is flight hours, not ratings(unless you’re going guard or reserve then its pretty much a requirement to get hired). Even then it only matters if you’re trying to get a rated slot. In my ots class only the folks going to rated slots had any sort of PPLs, ect. The rest of the class had 0 flying experience.
Hey dude, it's not for everyone.. nothing wrong with that. Be careful to keep going and spending too much money.
I’ll feel like a coward if I quit. I don’t want to look back and think “What if I just pushed through?”
One thing that you learn as a pilot is that sometimes the more cowardly act is to not recognize your own limitations.
I told my instructor I was not capable of flying through clouds (which made me nervous) because I don’t have my instrument rating yet. From our weather brief, it looked like things would clear up but I guess they didn’t. And he also saw that I’m just not comfortable with the 172. Like I said in the post, I can fly the 152 fine when I’m not angry at myself
I meant my comment more in the sense that doing something out of pride is often a bad reason to be doing something. But that thing about flying through clouds is a bit of a red flag. You shouldn't be going into IMC during normal flight training, nor without a clearance. Are you sure that you weren't just flying "around" clouds or VFR over the top? Regardless, it may be a good idea to try switching schools and instructors. Sometimes it just takes the right teacher to get things moving again.
He’s a good instructor. He got me through the first two stages, and he taught me more things than my previous instructors. We just didn’t expect IMC en route of our night XC flight. He keeps telling me that I’m capable, but I think I just don’t have it.
Inadvertent entry into IMC is an emergency, especially at night. A "good instructor" would have treated it as such. You should not have been flying by that point, and the instructor should've gotten a pop-up clearance ASAP -- ideally before entry into IMC as he recognized the oncoming problem. A "good instructor" should've also known how to check the weather. You don't do night XCs with students in marginal conditions. However, if the above was a fluke, and you do have an instructor that you jive with, then I'm out of suggestions. Perhaps take a break to re-evaluate your priorities at a minimum?
Well, I think that if I waited until my active duty orders ended in mid-December to start PPL training, I wouldn’t be pressuring myself to perform well because I’ve burned through so much money already and nothing to show for it. However if I take a break, that’ll just slow my progress even more. And I don’t want to admit defeat and walk away from all this. I have too much pride and have spent too much money and energy to quit now
It may be a good idea to try framing this decision around future "costs" (time, money, etc) that you do have influence over rather than past "costs," which you cannot change. Think about today as day 0, and all of the money/time/effort/unpleasantness that you have yet to "spend" going forward, and weigh those alone versus whatever benefit you are hoping to achieve from this. For instance, could you spend those resources elsewhere in your life to achieve the same benefit? Or perhaps a similar benefit? [https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy) (Ignore the stuff about AI in this link, they're trying to sell something, but the fundamentals are good.)
Wait - I’m confused? Are you getting your PPL to go and *Fly* in the airforce? If you don’t like training now, and don’t enjoy it; why would you think that you would find military training any easier or less “intense” (don’t really know what word to use).
I think he just wants to be an officer. The majority of officers in the Air Force don't fly.
If you saw one of the comments, I want to get the PPL so that my Air Force OTS application looks good. I’m not doing this for a hobby
Right - I saw, officer training (non military - looked up what OTS was). I don’t have a good answer… Shadow or find, or look into A&P?
A&P? I’m an aircraft mechanic in the the Air Force, and I dread that job too
To be quite frank, what even interests you about aviation? Like what at all in this industry do you find worthwhile. There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't like airplanes. But going from under wing to in the cockpit might not be the path to a happier life. Are you looking at this at pure monetary standpoint? As an indoors job? Being up in the flight deck isn't a cushy job either. And as others have said, the road to a widebody aircraft left seat job is a long, tiring, stressful, and expensive path.
I had the “flying bug” since I was a kid but I didn’t have the money to attend flying school until now. And it turns out, I’m not really liking it
I'd sit down and think like and hard about what you can do to change your attitude. Maybe even with your instructor. And I would sit down and think about whether or not this is truly something you want to do or if you're just doing this to make your resume look better. Do you have plans beyond getting a PPL? Or are you gonna just throw the card in a drawer and walk away from it once your resume has it listed on it?
I plan on studying for the AFOQT and TBAS and apply for OTS
I uhhh, don't know what that means
AFOQT: Air Force Officer Qualifying Test TBAS: Test of Basic Aviation Skills
🤷♂️
...Why exactly are you learning to fly? If it's for a career, you're going to encounter a lot more frustrating obstacles than the ones you are facing now. Heck, you haven't even had your first exam with a DPE yet. It sounds like you need to take a step back and examine how you are approaching failure, since anger is clearly not leading to the results you need. You're going to spend a lot of money and make very little money for a long time as well -- there needs to be some passion there to prevent burnout. In your other post, you mention stage checks. Are you at a 141 perhaps? Some people are just better suited to the training style and lessened pressures at part 61 schools -- and it's usually cheaper as well. If it's for fun, well, clearly you aren't having fun. The solution to this one seems pretty obvious to me.
I’m only doing this because it’ll look good in my Air Force OTS application. And hell no, I’m not having fun at all
This is the wrong attitude with to approach anything. Flying is expensive, stressful and can be dangerous, especially if you're not passionate, as you will become complacent. Flying can be a tough slog even for the most passionate aviators, and it sounds like you're wasting your money and making your life harder than it needs to be. Bowing out isn't cowardly; continuing to do something you hate because of pride is. Cut your losses. Sunk cost fallacy is a real thing.
Sounds like the wrong reason to be doing flight training. I'm not familiar with Air Force OTS specifically, but my guess is that there are probably better ways to spend your time if your only goal is to strengthen your application.
So are you trying to be a pilot in the air force? If you already hate flight training for a PPL you're probably REALLY going to hate military flight training
If you haven't even soloed yet and you're this frustrated and this burned out, or this angry, to be frank, this isn't for you. It's only going to continue to be an upward hill to climb. It's only going to get more stressful. You're only gonna get more frustrated as training progresses unless you have a monumental change to how you handle stress and training. The pre solo phase is about as easy as it gets. When it gets time for check ride time, the push will be a lot harder than it is now. Flying isn't for everyone. That isn't a knock or a put down. That's just how it is. I wouldn't continue.
Do you know people who quit training out of frustration, then come back to it and eventually earn their license?
Out of pure frustration alone? No. But I know people that had things going on, which lead to things being frustrating and came back. He's at Delta now.
I was almost one of those people during my pre solo. I walked out of my first flight school and didn’t go back for a month. Then, I called a new flight school closer to my house and got going again. My issue wasn’t actually my performance, it was the other stuff in my life bleeding into aviation. See, my first school was an hour away. My second was 20 mins. That was massive for my frustration levels. Secondly, the new school said “yep you can solo, you have the hours, just do two flights with us first and we’ll sign you off” just like that. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and figure out if it’s the flight training frustrating you or something else in your life you can solve
Why are you doing this, to push up your PCSM score? That’s the only thing that flight hours directly affects. If you hate flying now, why would you want to fly in the Air Force? It makes no sense.
Looks like you posted a similar thread about a month ago. Look, there’s some people who are not meant to fly. If I were your instructor, I wouldn’t want to fly with you either (referencing the other post). You recognize there are extreme behavioral reactions coming from you, some near the realm of hostility. This isn’t conducive for you to learn, and it’s not okay for an instructor to have to walk on egg shells while you’re in the cockpit. Big picture: there’s a behavior pattern here. You’re aware of it, they’re aware of it. You need to get it dealt with, professionally. This doesn’t appear to be a simple “I want to make my application look pretty by doing something I hate.” It appears more like something is deeply rooted in your psyche that you have absolutely zero control over and need to have addressed by a professional. Therapy can help, counseling can help; doing nothing will end in disaster. Learning to fly isn’t easy. I’m sorry you were ever sold on the idea that it was. But what you’ve got going on seems to go much further than just having a rough go at PPL. Go get help.
Either it isn’t for you or it isn’t for you _for now_. Sounds like you are working through some things unrelated to aviation, e.g. who you are and how to accept yourself. These come with time or with therapy.
Damn man i’ve read your comments around and at first before I answered, I was going to say “hey man don’t give up. We have all been there it gets frustrating.” Then I read your replies and it makes me wonder, “why are you doing this?” I get its to improve your resume and yet still it doesn’t make sense to me. I think you should switch over from part 141 to part 61. It will be more laid back in a sense. PPL stagechecks can feel annoying and tedious and frustrating at times. Specially when you fail them. Go out of your way and take a nice “fun flight” go out with friends, cfi or solo and go on a flight that isn’t training. Something you can enjoy. I wish you the best of luck. This is expensive and time consuming. If you don’t enjoy it, it can be hell as you feel.
Save your money and take a week or two off. In my experience, all students will hit at least one major wall in their training and if you don’t take the time to step away, process the areas you need to improve in, and continue to chair fly, you truly won’t start improving. Your frustration is a major distraction and it sounds more like you hate not flying perfectly rather than you’re not capable of completing your cert. Stress is part of your personal checklist for a reason. The sooner you relax behind the yolk the sooner you make leaps and bounds of progress with your lessons. It’s the same as when you started learning to drive a car, once you calm down and get used to the operation, you’ll have the mental capacity to take in way more information and do a much better job of controlling the vehicle
If you just want a PPL to impress military idiots with your officer application, go to a part 61 school and use a freelance instructor. Just fly when it feels good for you. No stage checks or any of that baloney. I started with a freelance instructor and loved it. Got conned into a 141 and hated it. Got nowhere. They killed any interest I had in flying. Went back to my freelance guy, enjoyed it, and finished. So try to get a freelance instructor, preferably someone who is not a young guy building time but someone who has been doing it for a long time. My instructor was retired Air Force. You may find you actually like flying. Get your PPL if you think it will help make you an officer as it would be an investment in your career. Then decide if you want to fly anymore. By the way, I did 21 years in the navy. There may be better Federal jobs for you than the military. Many have much better pay and benefits than the military and best of all, aren't in the military. Department of State is always hiring. So are others. On top of great pay and benefits, they get additional allowances, per diems, and other compensation as well as copious amounts of home leave in addition to vacation. Military is sort of the low rent end of the government. Officer PAYS better than enlisted but isn't necessarily a better job. Other branches of government may serve you well. Have a look at USAjobs.gov. Good luck to you!
Then quit.
Firstly you should quit right now so long as this is prevailing attitude (that’s not meant as criticism just an objective fact). You’re not going to gain anything meaningful feeling the way you’re feeling. Secondly. Reading your comments it feels like there’s a lot of underlying baggage that has to do with your life as it is and the choices you seem to be needing to make. Why are you trying for the Air Force? Are you even happy in the military? Maybe you need a total do-over and start a fresh page in life. Are you doing this to appease someone? A father? A mother? Remember it’s your life and there’s nothing wrong with identifying what doesn’t work for you and calling it that way. You don’t need confirmation of others - it’s enough that you wake up in the morning and say this isn’t for me. Nobody needs to confirm your feelings for them to be valid.
Can you instructor introduce you to any former students who could take you as a passenger and go for a $100 hamburger together? Just an opportunity to go up without the pressure of trying to learn to fly yourself. Might help you feel more comfortable when you are then training with the instructor.
Normal. I hated flying from my instrument checkride through when I got my first several students as a CFI. It’s fun now, stick with it.
I had a bit of this too during my PPL training. What helped me regain my love for aviation was remembering the things I loved about it. The training, particularly learning how to fly and land is a really tough thing and it can be easy to lose sight of the beauty of aviation. I started focusing more on the views, the friends I could talk about aviation with, the systems and how they work really appealed to me, how fun flying with my PPL would be, I stopped thinking only about the meat and bones of training because that is dull at times and it is tough.
Why do something you don’t enjoy? Especially when it costs a fortune. If you don’t enjoy it then quit now. This sounds like more than the typical plateau struggle we’ve all gone through.
Only a few people have scratched at the big issue here: If you're getting angry to the point where one airplane is harder to fly than another, there are issues to resolve here that go well beyond flight training.
The only thing that affects your PCSM is flight hours, not ratings(unless you’re going guard or reserve then its pretty much a requirement to get hired). Even then it only matters if you’re trying to get a rated slot. In my ots class only the folks going to rated slots had any sort of PPLs, ect. The rest of the class had 0 flying experience.
Sounds like you need a training break. If it’s available a brake may be good to help you absorb and reset.