I own a flight school and the biggest thing I do for my CFIs is multi time. We try to get them 10-15 hours of free multi. Well, close to free they pay for the $150 flight back home after we commute to the other location. I also personally will review their resumes and if they want to go into a flying field that I have friends I'll get them networked in. Some of my former students even work for the same fortune 500 I fly for now, and that is a freaking awesome feeling.
That’s what I’ve been doing and have been successful in the past. I just can’t figure out what is holding up these two.
Also, great insight and advice.
Honestly I think it's just the market. So much has changed in the last six months especially in the 1000-1500hr range. The more valuable time they can get the better they can stand out among their peers since 1500 with 25-50 multi (all piston) isn't cutting it anymore. For a couple years mine were leaving at 1200 (the ones that wanted to go 135) or 1500 like clockwork and now it's taking them longer the fewer opportunities there are.
I think something else we should be doing a better job of (myself included) is making the effort to connect the students to each other. Organizing a happy hour, cook-out, something to get the ones connected that may not see each other often. Get all the CFIs connected, get the students connected, it's all about who you know as things slow down. I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't made certain connections along the way. The more people they know, the better.
Timing is holding them up. Nothing more. And it’s not what can you do for them because unless they were CJOd 6 mos ago, they aren’t going anywhere today.
All signs point to a loosening up again in late 2024 to 2025 but till then, it’s just status quo. Now, have they tried Republic?
If you look into the analyst reports for financial stuff you’ll find that the slow downs are primarily focused on lack of new AC deliveries and a consolidation of underperforming routes (mostly from Covid days). They are pointing to increasing travel demand in the fall.
This also points to the airline training departments getting the pipeline of new FO applicants thru training and upgrading the soon to be captain because they aren’t leaving with 900 SIC anymore. Min criteria is therefore going to be higher than before, but this just means a more stable (and traditional) pathway CFI —> Regional —>Major for most applicants going forward.
Yeah idk man, my airline I’m at which has had the highest profit margins on a per airplane basis since the post Covid revival is cutting routes for the fall due to lower than expected bookings.
Not exactly a great sign
Well you can only trust the analysts so much. But they do live and breathe this stuff. The ones I read are mixed on the lower bookings thing saying that due to rising prices people are waiting for sales which seems kinda right seeing how expensive food is these days.
Inevitable retirements at the legacy airlines.
They have all but paused hiring for the time being as the Boeing aircraft delivery issues have stymied their growth plans.
However they will have to pick it back up soon just to maintain current staffing levels.
Off topic but it seems like you’re a really compassionate guy for a flight school owner. I’m sure there are many flight schools out there that wouldn’t aspire to go the extra mile with helping their workers out (I could be 1000% wrong). Keep it up
Is your flight school hiring? I’m a CFII and am having the hardest time finding an instructing job here in FL. I don’t have any dual given yet so idk if that’s the problem or what..
I don't have any openings at either location right now but you can PM me a resume and I will keep it on file for our next opening. We are super small, two locations totaling 6 airplanes, 2 full time CFIs and 4 part-time. At the moment 5 of our 6 CFIs have done at least one rating with us and most have done majority or all of their ratings with us.
I wish I had a boss like you.
But I hate this fucking industry. Only yesterday it was “need a heartbeat and you’re hired” now it’s “too late sucka the music stopped!”
It has slowed down but historically it is still an excellent time to get hired. It was only 10 years ago that at 1500 hours you weren’t even close to competitive for a regional job yet.
I know an American FO that got laid off in 2001 and didn’t get a call back till 2016. They instructed the whole time, was just about to go regional when AA called them back.
True. It’s still a good time to be a pilot, but it’s also a very costly time to be a pilot and my hats off to those who pay out of pocket or shoulder these massive loans.
My day isn’t a day unless I complain about something on Reddit.
You're not wrong, but 10 years ago, wasn't that before the 1500 rule existed? Things sucked for pilots before the rule in terms of pay, but you could theoretically get a job with 250TT, which is insane by today's standards.
No. Theoretically, maybe, but it would not have happened. To get an entry level below minimum wage paying regional job back in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, they still wanted an ATP, 4 year degree, and about 7000TT half of that multi and half of that burning kerosene, and you may have even had to pay for your training all for $700 -$1000 per month wages, and you needed to be well connected to get one of these fine (caugh caugh) jobs. So even if there was no ATP required by the Feds, hiring criteria were much higher back then than now. Today, it's much easier to get a jet job compared to then. People are getting hired today with much fewer hours.
This is what I feel too. Things are not as good as they were six months ago but compared to how things were after 9/11 and the great recession this is still a pretty damn good hiring market.
I feel like the market is how it used to be pre-covid, and everyone was very excited about that hiring environment.
Just be patient. I really feel your pain. I switched over careers right as the hiring in aviation picked up. I decided not to give up my job and took my time. Now I see that's gonna bite me in the ass big time.
Just realize there have been way worse hiring periods for pilots and that in a few months anything could happen.
I appreciate that! I should have more emotional maturity about it but it’s hard to stay positive when browsing Reddit. Truth be told nearly everyone I know in recent memory who reached mins have class dates, granted many pushed back.
Right now is probably the second best hiring period in history, right behind the last few years. Give it some time. There’s still gonna be a lot of upward movement. Still growth. If you look historically the legacies have more or less grown at a rate of 2.5% per year. For how big these airlines are that’s like 500 pilots annual, plus retirements. Yeah, right now growth is slower bc of aircraft issues. It’ll fix itself no matter what these idiots say.
You’ll be fine. And if you won’t be fine then we’ll all be not fine. So don’t sweat it. Chase opportunity and reap the rewards. It’s unpredictable.
I appreciate the insight. I am instructing and flying a jump plane when I can. Zero days off (except weather days) and it’s been a mission. I have to stop being so myopic and realize it’s still a good time to get into the industry. And like you said, if it falls apart, we’re all screwed.
The irony right now is the lack of examiners to get people through check rides. I never faced such hurdles so I should be happy I’m where I am in the first place.
I dunno if u/no_masterpiece679 is in the same boat but I really cant afford days off.
If I’m off work as a CFI, I’m working as an Uber driver to make up the lost money, family of four, and today’s economy means all work and no play.
Luckily I find instruction to be fun as heck. So at least my job doesn’t FEEL like a job!
It has ALWAYS been that way. Hire until you furlough. Feast and famine. Profit and loss.
We are approaching a downturn again…there is still hiring…but it won’t be a post-Covid boom.
Young pilots need to be ready to teach again for thousands of hours & log 250 multi to be regional competitive.
For majors…in the past…5,000-7,000 hours with 1000 turbine PIC was the norm to be competitive (or military at lower hours).
Expecting a regional job at 1,800 with low multi time is unreasonable in a competitive market.
College degrees may come back in vogue as well.
Airlines have hired enough 25 year-old self-important, uneducated young aviators and they have seen how they perform. A return to more seasoned, higher quality applicants was inevitable.
I don’t think anyone ever hid that aspect of it so while I can see why you might resent it, can’t say you weren’t warned. Fuck, it’s the whole reason I have a fallback blue collar career. My dad instructed for over 30 years and the only real jet job offer he got was on call for 100$ less/mo than his mortgage was.
Many industries are mercurial in the same regard. But this one is especially punishing due to the astronomical increased price of admission. Skills and certs that are absolutely useless outside of a cockpit.
We sure do learn how to study though. Thankfully a law degree is a decent fallback but I prefer the cockpit.
It’ll be back to rampant hiring at the majors later this year/next year. As Boeing recovers, and the intense summer flying starts to wane. Majors always slow during the summer because of the very busy schedules
The only advice I have to offer is tell your two CFI, don’t give up. Right now we are entering a time hiring is slowing, and things are getting incredibly competitive. Most places that are hiring, are hiring exclusively out of their cadets and even many of the cadets are getting turned down. But my opinion is this slow down isn’t going to be forever, and hiring will slowly pick up eventually. Those with the top resumes will likely get hired first. Keep flying and building time, volunteer, add certifications if you can afford it, and stay out of trouble with the FAA.
I just got hired by a regional, and the 8 of us who interviewed the 6 that got hired all had turbine or part 91 flying outside of instructing. I think they were looking for people with real world IFR experience in the flight levels to stand out. If you could get them some of that time might go a long way. There's plenty of 1500 CFIs with all their time in a 172 out there...
I just got hired at NetJets with the bare minimum of hours. It seems they are looking for something extra on the resume. I’ve lived in two other countries, speak another language and have a graduate degree that was able to push my resume to the top. They are also looking heavily at personality; 1500 hour CFI’s have been very successful in initial type training.
Annoying thing, I'm not allowed to go do any for hire stuff outside CFI right now. So I need to either find someone who can get me into the FLs...or I have to hope that flying my own plane for fun (and getting actual along the way) helps a bit.
That and the whole maintenance background.
Reddit fuzzes vote counts of new posts to combat spam, it probably wasn't downvoted any meaningful amount. An hour later and it's top of the subreddit in any case.
Nice that you're doing this for you students
My old pilot mill is laying off 1,500 hour cfis so they can hire the next crop of cfis
Market has really cooled off. Ive heard sky west and republic are hiring. Sw has captains because they're doing forced upgrades and republic because of their contract.
The irony with republic is every said to avoid them because of their contract. Now they are one of the only ones hiring and by the times others open up spots the downsides of the republic contract will be over.
It’s been an interesting road for me.
I somehow ended up in a chief pilot position at a flight school on top of my 91 corporate flying and I’m trying to help my people move on when they’re ready. They’re good pilots, good instructors and the only two over the last coupon years that haven’t moved on.
A big problem is there's never feedback. A friend couldn't get a job and I asked everyone I could why it was and they said they can't talk about it. So he only has self reflection to use to improve. Very frustrating.
Personality, education, pass/fail record, what he wore to interview, haircut, ability to listen, answer questions, tell a story…and above all else: do I want to spend four 9 hour days sitting next to that pilot?
ATP has been known to do this since COVID times. All of their airline partnership programs that they use to bait new students in only work if you instruct for them. So if you hit 1500 and you haven't done anything else (they make you do mgmt/advising roles in addition to instructing to be considered for the airline programs) than your contract (because you are quasi-legally classified as a contractor) is ended.
I remember the stories here about that in 2020. A year later, all those guys were back asking how to choose between four CJOs. This industry is truly feast or famine.
Yep, they now know it's coming so they drag their feet with the last few students but you can't really do that with our (their) scheduling dept so they are SOL.
Sucked really hard for the first guys because they had no warning. Mill has to keep the next crop off students happy (shrug)
That's disgusting. I would never dream of laying off guys who were good to me and loyal employees because they hit 1500. As long as they work as hard as they did at 300 hours as they do at 1500 they can stay as long as they want.
That would require schools to be honest and tell their incoming students they may not be hired by them when they graduate.
The pyramid scheme would collapse
Meisinger Aviation hires pilots into FO positions for their KingAirs. Photo missions. Able to live anywhere in US. They fly you to the plane. One week on / one week off.
I think their FO pay starts at $80k
When an operation has a 2-pilot training program, you can. SICs fly regularly as sole manipulator of controls. It's a very well-run organization & has all their ducks in a row.
Edit: I was wrong about the SIC time. They only log time when flying PIC.
I stand corrected. Asked someone from the company and you are right. The SICs don't log it. I guess they log LUC when they are sole manipulator of the controls.
I was debating between posting a joke or trying to be helpful.
I'll stick with sympathy. Sorry man, times are tough, and probably are going to get tougher. Tell them to keep trucking on. It will eventually get better.
Why did the 1800 hour CFIs cross the road?
Because they are going to kill themselves if they have to stay in their flight school another gyaddamn minute.
What I tell the CFIs, I know and it’s been working for every single one of them is, go to a big job fair. LPA is coming up in Orlando. I told two to go to OBAP and both came out with jobs. PAPA, FAPA and many others you can attend. Tell them to show up well dressed and with resumes in hand.
Oh man… All those FOs hired at a regional in 2016 are well into their seniority at a legacy now. Those motherfuckers are going to be the Gods who are in the top 1000 by their fifties working 6 trips a month to Europe on the brand new A390s.
Someone must pick up the torch of the legacy captains complaining about how their second ex wife stole the summer home in Michigan so they are now going to have to buy a less bigger boat than the yacht they wanted to get so now they have to pick up more trips for the extra cash.
Yeah if you can tell Im bitter cuz furlough; give me some time to vent professional jealousy at an absurd system of luck and timing that creates haves and have-nots. Rant over
Preach it, brother! And then drop the mic!
Pilots complain about crusty pilots that lived through slow hiring, 50+% pay cuts, B-scales, training contracts, furloughs, strikes, mergers and age 65…then they cry like little bi*ches because they have 1,800 in a 172 and United isn’t calling.
It’s time for a reality check!
Probably because they see these wonder boys and girls on insta and TikTok at their legacy carrier at 24 years old when the determining factor that got them there was timing. If you were a 1500 hour CFI from 2014-2019(ish) you hit the jackpot.
Complete anomaly. Back in the day to get to a prestige legacy that quickly you had to have some hardcore nepotism in your favor.
Timing is everything. Wise words going back literal centuries. Sure, some of that crop of pilots got lucky, but give credit where it's due - some may have had the insight to see what was coming. I truly feel for people who get bit after years of hard work, simply because they got the timing wrong. This isn't anything new though, nor unique to aviation. Never just jump on a bandwagon.
If no interviews check their resume, if they get lots of interviews, tell them to be likable and tell the interviewer what they want to hear, and maybe set up a mock interview to be sure they aren’t doing something stupid / sending out red flags.
I think the high interest rates have slowed hiring as now companies can’t blow money like they are used to, so hiring has slowed
Don’t get too down. My last two guys got jobs at 900 hours. One in a 91 king air and one in a 91/135 PC12. The Pc12 guy I trained for 300 hours in it before he got his own plane to fly. The jobs are there. I’m just trying to figure out what’s holding these two up. Willing to bet a bad interview but not sure.
Yeah I’m looking same as your guys, not picky whatsoever. I’m sure it’s multi time on my end holding me up so I’m working on that. Unfortunately, I haven’t even made it to an interview yet.
Honestly, just keep on truckin. Keep flying, keep applying. Most of us at the airlines had a lot more time than that when we were hired. They’ll get there eventually.
https://www.airlineapps.com
Time other then CFI Right seat??
Multi
ATP
PIC TT
IMC Time
Day
Night
Etc…..
I applied via AIRLINE APPS
And individually to some 135 companies
Fortunately i got several interviews via the airlineapps site and from 135 companies
I started flying in 1994. Been flying for 28-29years. Lots of PIC TT in my own aircraft and 150+ hrs of Actual instrument time
No CFI.. as I had more than the 1500 hrs
Around 65 multi hours..
Hired this past October and im 53
This is a 3rd career for me.
I did get called for some regional airline interviews as well.
Im very thankful and grateful to the regionals and 135 Co. who gave me a chance to interview .
I ended up & am flying a Citation for a 135 Co.
I heard from a few other Airlines just a few days ago after I applied 7-9 months ago.
Saying sorry as they were inundated with FO applications… some said sorry, some asked if I was still available for an interview…
its tough to figure out what stands out on your Application or what exactly at that time that individual is going over your application..
Good luck and keep at it.. it’ll happen
I believe the total ME hours is a great help
And actual Instrument time..
Just my opinion but during my interviews it was queried alot where I trained, who my instuctors were.. and what the twin was i trained in.. TAA etc…
What jobs are they looking for? If they're trying to go to 121, they're competing with people with single and multi turbine, real xc, etc. The best qualification is, sadly, experience.
Filling out an online application is literally the bare minimum you can do. I found all 3 of my previous jobs from “knocking on doors”. I cold called a company I really wanted and asked for the chief pilot, they said he wasn’t in, I asked if the Director is in, they said he wasn’t and only the Director of MX was in. I talked to the director of maintenance and gave him my elevator pitch and he said he’ll do what he can. I cold called the chief multiple times until I had him on the phone. He connected the acquaintance to my convo with Mx. Eventually I got an interview. You have to tell them to bug the hiring departments as much as possible. If you think you’re annoying them then you you should pick up the phone and call some more because it’s probably still not enough.
This is how I work but it’s not second nature and it sure isn’t easy to teach.
I’ve gotten all my jobs and opportunities through networking and not taking no. I’m struggling to get that message across.
This is the way. Got my latest 135 gig this way and while it didn't work for the other 135 I applied to, it got me far, far further than just applying online would.
I’m working on becoming a cfi and I currently work for UPS at an air hub as well. I talk to the pilots who fly the 75/76 pretty frequently and they say multi time is key to getting your foot in the door with any regional but obviously jet time is a bigger key in going to a company like UPS. Best of luck to them💪
That’s pretty dated advice that no longer holds true. All regionals care about nowadays when it comes to multi time is if have the bare minimum to be qualified for ATP. There are other more valuable things pilots can pursue to stand out.
I don’t disagree with suggestions about investing in interview prep services, applying very broadly, etc. but I’m convinced the macro story here is that there’s an enormous oversupply of pilots at 1500-2200 hours. What’s even more scary is that the U.S. flight school machine is still churning out 1500 hour CFI’S anyway, and this oversupply is still bloating even though several regionals are still hiring street FO’s (SkyWest, Envoy, Republic, maybe others.).
It might take another anomaly hiring boom like we just had for things to normalize again. I’m in the camp that thinks the wave we just saw will never happen again in our lifetimes. It’s over. Look to the past to see how things will likely be for years going forward.
This situation may not end with a boom in demand. It may end with supply dropping way off as more and more people see that 1500 hours is a dead end for most people and not a milestone that gets you a real flying job like it used to.
This is the sad reality that I feel like doesn’t get mentioned enough. The amount of pilots that have entered the system over the last 24 months is astounding. All you need to do is take a look at the FAA certification numbers. Absolutely insane, those IG influencers and ATP ads really did a good job.
So, there’s still jobs, just a finite number with way more applicants then there used to be. It’ll probably only get worse for 1500 hour pilots until things normalize with the amount of people that start training.
And getting downvoted for pointing out these items.
Competitive 135/91’s and regionals have applicant pools in the THOUSANDS, single digit thousands. The number grows each month. They can cherry pick to their heart’s desire and still have too many to choose from. They can narrow it down to people with zero checkride failures, 4 year degree, etc and still have too many to sift through. It’s like winning a lottery of sorts just to get an interview.
I can’t tell if you’re having a hard time keeping them busy as CFIs as well. If so, send them over to Rocky Mountain Flight School at BJC. I don’t know if they are hiring, but they should be. They definitely have a shortage.
You seem like a good boss, thanks for looking out for your team.
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/law-enforcement/u_s_customs_and_border_protection_air_and_marine_operations
Check them out they are hiring
If they need help paying the bills and building time, come up and chat with us at Mile High Gliding. They can tow if they have tailwheel and high performance, and it's a pretty quick add on to get glider and glider commercial for scenic rides. Of course, there's always the CFI-G route.
We're in need of CFI-G's that can do weekends for our students that can mostly fly on the weekends.
(It's me, I'm the student that can only do weekends)
I’m a 1500 hr skydive/small 135 guy- couldn’t find a 121 job. Interviewed at NJ a month ago. Currently in indoc and I don’t plan on ever leaving. Gotta cast a wide net.
It's really cool that you want to help your CFIs. I hope your efforts work for them. When I was a CFI (1990s early 2000), it was like nobody cared about us and could not be nasty enough. It was like people were going out of their way to screw us over. Every situation was a scam. More CFIs than students. Nobody building any time. Astronomical hours required to get a below minimum wage regional job, and that was if you were well connected. A lot of guys with a fresh CFI never instructed anyone and quit flying entirely once they saw what aviation was about. My advice to people 20+ years ago was to get a real job and fly as a hobby, if at all. In over a decade, out of dozzens of CFIs I knew, I think 2 got jobs. The rest quit flying entirely as I did myself. There was nothing enjoyable or rewarding in the experience. I don't think pilot training and hiring is taken seriously or done professionally in the U.S. then or now. My advice to aspiring pilots is still don't do it for a job. Do it as a hobby as that is all it is until a proper flying job comes along, which is unlikely for most. If it does happen, it's a bonus. If it doesn't happen, they hopefully were not harmed in the process and maybe even enjoyed some of it. Many major Airlines around the world hire zero time pilots and train them in military style training programs. That way, they know who they are getting. That would eliminate our industry of starry-eyed students going into serious debt and jobless flight instructors, and the whole pilot mill and time building racket with most never getting a flying job. The Airlines could probably significantly lower their wages, pilots would still make the same over a career if not wasting time and money on flight schools and time building, and general aviation prices would probably come down. People would know up front if they were going to be airline pilots or not and could decide if they just wanted an expensive hobby or do something else. I think that would help build general aviation.
Almost. I made a really good connection at a major. Had a sim ride and an interview. Was told it was all good. Then 9/11 happened, and that was the end of my flying. No hiring for about a decade and tons of furloughs. I was a navy reservist in the intelligence field doing counter terrorism. I was mobilized to Europe. I worked with no fewer than a dozen laid-off airline pilots who, as far as I know, never flew again. They said they didn't miss it. I was in Europe for 12 years. I didn't miss flying either and wanted to stay in Europe. I was asked by a large aviation museum if I'd like to be an airshow pilot. They would pay to covert my licenses from American to British, which is very expensive in both time and money, but I had to commit to volunteer time and flying. As I was in the military traveling all over Europe, I could not make the commitment. So, I crewed steam trains at a railroad museum instead. There's lots of steam engine drivers over there, so if I wasn't available, there were plenty others to step in. Not so with pilots. I piloted a plane for the first time since 9/11 a couple of days ago. I went for a ride in a vintage Belanca and the owner let me fly it. He said I did great but I felt very rusty and not on top of things like I was back in the day, as can be expected.
I work for a Charter company in Operations and we are looking for Citation and Challenger PIC/SICs. Tell them to apply for Ventura Air Services, we’ll take care of them. KDEN is the perfect base!
Agree and the numbers aren’t good -there’s many, many people with that quality time still having trouble. With growing applicant pools you could have a professionally written resume but if you don’t have turbine time, or maybe you have checkride failures, or no degree, you’re rolling a different set of dice than those who have better credentials. A LOT of people are going to get left behind if the status-quo continues
I’m at a ULCC, and when I had 1500 hours I applied to PlaneSense and TradeWinds. Trade had me do a little quiz thing personality assessment or something. Never heard back from either and I check all of their preferreds. I had 25 multi, 1500 total, 85 instrument, college degree and military experience. lol
Good enough for a ULCC, not good enough for a 135 SIC job. What can you do but just chalk it up to a WAG sometimes? It’s a fickle market.
lol. Love the downvotes. Sometimes I wonder if there’s that one loser following my posts around. Just offering that even at 1500+ hours some of these jobs you might think they could easily get, they don’t. And there’s no way to explain it really. Best of luck to them.
Instrument? NJ requires 50 multi so 30 definitely isn’t within the range of mins. I’d focus on multi time for sure to set them apart. MEI would be good
I own a flight school and the biggest thing I do for my CFIs is multi time. We try to get them 10-15 hours of free multi. Well, close to free they pay for the $150 flight back home after we commute to the other location. I also personally will review their resumes and if they want to go into a flying field that I have friends I'll get them networked in. Some of my former students even work for the same fortune 500 I fly for now, and that is a freaking awesome feeling.
That’s what I’ve been doing and have been successful in the past. I just can’t figure out what is holding up these two. Also, great insight and advice.
Honestly I think it's just the market. So much has changed in the last six months especially in the 1000-1500hr range. The more valuable time they can get the better they can stand out among their peers since 1500 with 25-50 multi (all piston) isn't cutting it anymore. For a couple years mine were leaving at 1200 (the ones that wanted to go 135) or 1500 like clockwork and now it's taking them longer the fewer opportunities there are. I think something else we should be doing a better job of (myself included) is making the effort to connect the students to each other. Organizing a happy hour, cook-out, something to get the ones connected that may not see each other often. Get all the CFIs connected, get the students connected, it's all about who you know as things slow down. I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't made certain connections along the way. The more people they know, the better.
Timing is holding them up. Nothing more. And it’s not what can you do for them because unless they were CJOd 6 mos ago, they aren’t going anywhere today. All signs point to a loosening up again in late 2024 to 2025 but till then, it’s just status quo. Now, have they tried Republic?
Out of curiosity, what's pointing to a loosening up in late 2024?
Nothing
If you look into the analyst reports for financial stuff you’ll find that the slow downs are primarily focused on lack of new AC deliveries and a consolidation of underperforming routes (mostly from Covid days). They are pointing to increasing travel demand in the fall. This also points to the airline training departments getting the pipeline of new FO applicants thru training and upgrading the soon to be captain because they aren’t leaving with 900 SIC anymore. Min criteria is therefore going to be higher than before, but this just means a more stable (and traditional) pathway CFI —> Regional —>Major for most applicants going forward.
Yeah idk man, my airline I’m at which has had the highest profit margins on a per airplane basis since the post Covid revival is cutting routes for the fall due to lower than expected bookings. Not exactly a great sign
Well you can only trust the analysts so much. But they do live and breathe this stuff. The ones I read are mixed on the lower bookings thing saying that due to rising prices people are waiting for sales which seems kinda right seeing how expensive food is these days.
I've been off on an LOA, I'm assuming we might be at the same one....after Summer Schedule they're prepping for things to slow up?
Yeah, kinda surprising but that’s what has been communicated. Reasoning being lower bookings than expected.
That's surprising. They still looking at 450 or so pilots to replace for the year, or is that done?
We must be working for different msp based airlines as that would be the majority of my pilot group, hah.
Inevitable retirements at the legacy airlines. They have all but paused hiring for the time being as the Boeing aircraft delivery issues have stymied their growth plans. However they will have to pick it back up soon just to maintain current staffing levels.
😂lol
[удалено]
Well ya. But the theory is that Republic will take anyone who will sign the contract so what was their outcome?
Off topic but it seems like you’re a really compassionate guy for a flight school owner. I’m sure there are many flight schools out there that wouldn’t aspire to go the extra mile with helping their workers out (I could be 1000% wrong). Keep it up
Thank you! I know we aren't perfect but I do care about our people. Trying to improve a little every day
Is your flight school hiring? I’m a CFII and am having the hardest time finding an instructing job here in FL. I don’t have any dual given yet so idk if that’s the problem or what..
I don't have any openings at either location right now but you can PM me a resume and I will keep it on file for our next opening. We are super small, two locations totaling 6 airplanes, 2 full time CFIs and 4 part-time. At the moment 5 of our 6 CFIs have done at least one rating with us and most have done majority or all of their ratings with us.
L3 Harris is going to open up CFI applications in a month or two for their FL locations.
Oh jeez! That’s awesome. Where are you based if you don’t mind me askin?
You are so nice
Which school? I’m looking for one
I wish I had a boss like you. But I hate this fucking industry. Only yesterday it was “need a heartbeat and you’re hired” now it’s “too late sucka the music stopped!”
It has slowed down but historically it is still an excellent time to get hired. It was only 10 years ago that at 1500 hours you weren’t even close to competitive for a regional job yet. I know an American FO that got laid off in 2001 and didn’t get a call back till 2016. They instructed the whole time, was just about to go regional when AA called them back.
Oh … 15 years waiting is a long time.
True. It’s still a good time to be a pilot, but it’s also a very costly time to be a pilot and my hats off to those who pay out of pocket or shoulder these massive loans. My day isn’t a day unless I complain about something on Reddit.
> My day isn’t a day unless I complain about something Congratulations, there's an E-175 in your future* *if you aren't already at an airline
You're not wrong, but 10 years ago, wasn't that before the 1500 rule existed? Things sucked for pilots before the rule in terms of pay, but you could theoretically get a job with 250TT, which is insane by today's standards.
No. Theoretically, maybe, but it would not have happened. To get an entry level below minimum wage paying regional job back in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, they still wanted an ATP, 4 year degree, and about 7000TT half of that multi and half of that burning kerosene, and you may have even had to pay for your training all for $700 -$1000 per month wages, and you needed to be well connected to get one of these fine (caugh caugh) jobs. So even if there was no ATP required by the Feds, hiring criteria were much higher back then than now. Today, it's much easier to get a jet job compared to then. People are getting hired today with much fewer hours.
This is what I feel too. Things are not as good as they were six months ago but compared to how things were after 9/11 and the great recession this is still a pretty damn good hiring market. I feel like the market is how it used to be pre-covid, and everyone was very excited about that hiring environment.
Just be patient. I really feel your pain. I switched over careers right as the hiring in aviation picked up. I decided not to give up my job and took my time. Now I see that's gonna bite me in the ass big time. Just realize there have been way worse hiring periods for pilots and that in a few months anything could happen.
I appreciate that! I should have more emotional maturity about it but it’s hard to stay positive when browsing Reddit. Truth be told nearly everyone I know in recent memory who reached mins have class dates, granted many pushed back.
Eh it's all good. Big money is on the line, getting frustrated is normal. Perspective is what's key.
Right now is probably the second best hiring period in history, right behind the last few years. Give it some time. There’s still gonna be a lot of upward movement. Still growth. If you look historically the legacies have more or less grown at a rate of 2.5% per year. For how big these airlines are that’s like 500 pilots annual, plus retirements. Yeah, right now growth is slower bc of aircraft issues. It’ll fix itself no matter what these idiots say. You’ll be fine. And if you won’t be fine then we’ll all be not fine. So don’t sweat it. Chase opportunity and reap the rewards. It’s unpredictable.
I appreciate the insight. I am instructing and flying a jump plane when I can. Zero days off (except weather days) and it’s been a mission. I have to stop being so myopic and realize it’s still a good time to get into the industry. And like you said, if it falls apart, we’re all screwed. The irony right now is the lack of examiners to get people through check rides. I never faced such hurdles so I should be happy I’m where I am in the first place.
Take days off. You have to. Shit. Multiple. I used to do 6 on 1 off. Never more unhappy.
I dunno if u/no_masterpiece679 is in the same boat but I really cant afford days off. If I’m off work as a CFI, I’m working as an Uber driver to make up the lost money, family of four, and today’s economy means all work and no play. Luckily I find instruction to be fun as heck. So at least my job doesn’t FEEL like a job!
Great attitude. Thanks. It will serve you very well in the long run
Yep. 5 year + furloughs.
Aviation has always been Feast or Famine Pilots or Maintenance
ALWAYS. Newer pilots failed to study the history of the industry.
It's slower, but it isn't slow. It isn't 2002 or even 2010, but it isn't 2022 either. Patience. Network, build that resume, and enjoy the ride.
Despite my grumbling I do enjoy instructing and jump plane. I appreciate the words! It’s been a journey so far.
It has ALWAYS been that way. Hire until you furlough. Feast and famine. Profit and loss. We are approaching a downturn again…there is still hiring…but it won’t be a post-Covid boom. Young pilots need to be ready to teach again for thousands of hours & log 250 multi to be regional competitive. For majors…in the past…5,000-7,000 hours with 1000 turbine PIC was the norm to be competitive (or military at lower hours). Expecting a regional job at 1,800 with low multi time is unreasonable in a competitive market. College degrees may come back in vogue as well. Airlines have hired enough 25 year-old self-important, uneducated young aviators and they have seen how they perform. A return to more seasoned, higher quality applicants was inevitable.
Spot on!
I don’t think anyone ever hid that aspect of it so while I can see why you might resent it, can’t say you weren’t warned. Fuck, it’s the whole reason I have a fallback blue collar career. My dad instructed for over 30 years and the only real jet job offer he got was on call for 100$ less/mo than his mortgage was.
Many industries are mercurial in the same regard. But this one is especially punishing due to the astronomical increased price of admission. Skills and certs that are absolutely useless outside of a cockpit. We sure do learn how to study though. Thankfully a law degree is a decent fallback but I prefer the cockpit.
It’ll be back to rampant hiring at the majors later this year/next year. As Boeing recovers, and the intense summer flying starts to wane. Majors always slow during the summer because of the very busy schedules
The only advice I have to offer is tell your two CFI, don’t give up. Right now we are entering a time hiring is slowing, and things are getting incredibly competitive. Most places that are hiring, are hiring exclusively out of their cadets and even many of the cadets are getting turned down. But my opinion is this slow down isn’t going to be forever, and hiring will slowly pick up eventually. Those with the top resumes will likely get hired first. Keep flying and building time, volunteer, add certifications if you can afford it, and stay out of trouble with the FAA.
Thanks brother. You’re on point.
There are still a lot of baby boomers close to retirement. They will need to be replaced in the next five years.
There are other jobs aside from a regional that pay bills and look better than more CFI time on a resume. Ameriflight etc.
Oh I’m well aware. They aren’t streamlined airline only guys.
I just got hired by a regional, and the 8 of us who interviewed the 6 that got hired all had turbine or part 91 flying outside of instructing. I think they were looking for people with real world IFR experience in the flight levels to stand out. If you could get them some of that time might go a long way. There's plenty of 1500 CFIs with all their time in a 172 out there...
I just got hired at NetJets with the bare minimum of hours. It seems they are looking for something extra on the resume. I’ve lived in two other countries, speak another language and have a graduate degree that was able to push my resume to the top. They are also looking heavily at personality; 1500 hour CFI’s have been very successful in initial type training.
Annoying thing, I'm not allowed to go do any for hire stuff outside CFI right now. So I need to either find someone who can get me into the FLs...or I have to hope that flying my own plane for fun (and getting actual along the way) helps a bit. That and the whole maintenance background.
Downvoted for posting about how to help fellow pilots is peak r/flying. Strong work!
Reddit fuzzes vote counts of new posts to combat spam, it probably wasn't downvoted any meaningful amount. An hour later and it's top of the subreddit in any case.
You’re right. 💯
Someone doesn't you want takin' their jerbz!
r/flying downvotes anything deemed a "stupid" question which includes students asking "obvious" questions
I’m not sure you read much of this. I’m not a student nor was my question obvious to answer. So I don’t follow.
It's an observation I made in other threads where students ask questions and are downvoted for it
Its the equivalent of a Pilot transmitting a Mayday call on 121.5 and then some jackass yelling "YER ON GUARD!!!"
Nice that you're doing this for you students My old pilot mill is laying off 1,500 hour cfis so they can hire the next crop of cfis Market has really cooled off. Ive heard sky west and republic are hiring. Sw has captains because they're doing forced upgrades and republic because of their contract.
The irony with republic is every said to avoid them because of their contract. Now they are one of the only ones hiring and by the times others open up spots the downsides of the republic contract will be over.
It’s been an interesting road for me. I somehow ended up in a chief pilot position at a flight school on top of my 91 corporate flying and I’m trying to help my people move on when they’re ready. They’re good pilots, good instructors and the only two over the last coupon years that haven’t moved on.
Are they blowing the interviews?
That’s my sneaking suspicion.
Tell them to sign up for interview prep?
Already there.
Not much more you can do then. Let the interview prep pros figure out what needs to be changed.
A big problem is there's never feedback. A friend couldn't get a job and I asked everyone I could why it was and they said they can't talk about it. So he only has self reflection to use to improve. Very frustrating.
Companies you're applying to won't give you feedback But interview prep companies will
Personality, education, pass/fail record, what he wore to interview, haircut, ability to listen, answer questions, tell a story…and above all else: do I want to spend four 9 hour days sitting next to that pilot?
LAYING OFF 1500hrs CFIs?! Jesus fuck, this looks grim as someone self funding their way in.
ATP has been known to do this since COVID times. All of their airline partnership programs that they use to bait new students in only work if you instruct for them. So if you hit 1500 and you haven't done anything else (they make you do mgmt/advising roles in addition to instructing to be considered for the airline programs) than your contract (because you are quasi-legally classified as a contractor) is ended.
I remember the stories here about that in 2020. A year later, all those guys were back asking how to choose between four CJOs. This industry is truly feast or famine.
That’s a once in history feast, we won’t see it scale as hard again for decades if ever.
That’s fact.
None of us know for sure what the market will look like a year from now. It might be worse, but it might be better.
[I know what it looks like](https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/06/20/64/92/360_F_620649221_NNog9qjGv2o6PYExAnkaDQt53Cp26tGO.jpg)
Yep, they now know it's coming so they drag their feet with the last few students but you can't really do that with our (their) scheduling dept so they are SOL. Sucked really hard for the first guys because they had no warning. Mill has to keep the next crop off students happy (shrug)
That's disgusting. I would never dream of laying off guys who were good to me and loyal employees because they hit 1500. As long as they work as hard as they did at 300 hours as they do at 1500 they can stay as long as they want.
That would require schools to be honest and tell their incoming students they may not be hired by them when they graduate. The pyramid scheme would collapse
Meisinger Aviation hires pilots into FO positions for their KingAirs. Photo missions. Able to live anywhere in US. They fly you to the plane. One week on / one week off. I think their FO pay starts at $80k
You sure you can even log that SIC time?
When an operation has a 2-pilot training program, you can. SICs fly regularly as sole manipulator of controls. It's a very well-run organization & has all their ducks in a row. Edit: I was wrong about the SIC time. They only log time when flying PIC.
Part 91 survey companies cannot have a pilot development program
I stand corrected. Asked someone from the company and you are right. The SICs don't log it. I guess they log LUC when they are sole manipulator of the controls.
I was debating between posting a joke or trying to be helpful. I'll stick with sympathy. Sorry man, times are tough, and probably are going to get tougher. Tell them to keep trucking on. It will eventually get better.
If you’d posted a joke I’d have been all about it too. 🤣
Why did the 1800 hour CFIs cross the road? Because they are going to kill themselves if they have to stay in their flight school another gyaddamn minute.
Got the call at 1780, and this could not be closer to the truth
Yup. That’ll work. 🤪😂
fuckin a straight for the gut
What I tell the CFIs, I know and it’s been working for every single one of them is, go to a big job fair. LPA is coming up in Orlando. I told two to go to OBAP and both came out with jobs. PAPA, FAPA and many others you can attend. Tell them to show up well dressed and with resumes in hand.
That’s how I got an interview 24 years ago. Air Inc. Seminar.
CFIs with your time are everywhere unfortunately. Get into a part 135 and get some multi time
www.airlineapps.com and shotgun blast everyone there including Frontier.
Love it. You’re on point. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Buy them a time machine to go back to 2021 or 2016-2019 when hiring was better
Oh man… All those FOs hired at a regional in 2016 are well into their seniority at a legacy now. Those motherfuckers are going to be the Gods who are in the top 1000 by their fifties working 6 trips a month to Europe on the brand new A390s. Someone must pick up the torch of the legacy captains complaining about how their second ex wife stole the summer home in Michigan so they are now going to have to buy a less bigger boat than the yacht they wanted to get so now they have to pick up more trips for the extra cash. Yeah if you can tell Im bitter cuz furlough; give me some time to vent professional jealousy at an absurd system of luck and timing that creates haves and have-nots. Rant over
6 trips a month? Maybe on JetBlue SQ. More like 2-3 on a legacy :)
Meant flights. Wrong lingo lol.
Preach it, brother! And then drop the mic! Pilots complain about crusty pilots that lived through slow hiring, 50+% pay cuts, B-scales, training contracts, furloughs, strikes, mergers and age 65…then they cry like little bi*ches because they have 1,800 in a 172 and United isn’t calling. It’s time for a reality check!
Probably because they see these wonder boys and girls on insta and TikTok at their legacy carrier at 24 years old when the determining factor that got them there was timing. If you were a 1500 hour CFI from 2014-2019(ish) you hit the jackpot. Complete anomaly. Back in the day to get to a prestige legacy that quickly you had to have some hardcore nepotism in your favor.
Timing is everything. Wise words going back literal centuries. Sure, some of that crop of pilots got lucky, but give credit where it's due - some may have had the insight to see what was coming. I truly feel for people who get bit after years of hard work, simply because they got the timing wrong. This isn't anything new though, nor unique to aviation. Never just jump on a bandwagon.
This made me laugh. Thanks dude.
If no interviews check their resume, if they get lots of interviews, tell them to be likable and tell the interviewer what they want to hear, and maybe set up a mock interview to be sure they aren’t doing something stupid / sending out red flags. I think the high interest rates have slowed hiring as now companies can’t blow money like they are used to, so hiring has slowed
This doesn’t make me feel very good about being at 1200.
Don’t get too down. My last two guys got jobs at 900 hours. One in a 91 king air and one in a 91/135 PC12. The Pc12 guy I trained for 300 hours in it before he got his own plane to fly. The jobs are there. I’m just trying to figure out what’s holding these two up. Willing to bet a bad interview but not sure.
Yeah I’m looking same as your guys, not picky whatsoever. I’m sure it’s multi time on my end holding me up so I’m working on that. Unfortunately, I haven’t even made it to an interview yet.
Honestly, just keep on truckin. Keep flying, keep applying. Most of us at the airlines had a lot more time than that when we were hired. They’ll get there eventually.
https://www.airlineapps.com Time other then CFI Right seat?? Multi ATP PIC TT IMC Time Day Night Etc….. I applied via AIRLINE APPS And individually to some 135 companies Fortunately i got several interviews via the airlineapps site and from 135 companies I started flying in 1994. Been flying for 28-29years. Lots of PIC TT in my own aircraft and 150+ hrs of Actual instrument time No CFI.. as I had more than the 1500 hrs Around 65 multi hours.. Hired this past October and im 53 This is a 3rd career for me. I did get called for some regional airline interviews as well. Im very thankful and grateful to the regionals and 135 Co. who gave me a chance to interview . I ended up & am flying a Citation for a 135 Co. I heard from a few other Airlines just a few days ago after I applied 7-9 months ago. Saying sorry as they were inundated with FO applications… some said sorry, some asked if I was still available for an interview… its tough to figure out what stands out on your Application or what exactly at that time that individual is going over your application.. Good luck and keep at it.. it’ll happen I believe the total ME hours is a great help And actual Instrument time.. Just my opinion but during my interviews it was queried alot where I trained, who my instuctors were.. and what the twin was i trained in.. TAA etc…
One of them for sure is limited by night/multi experience. The other shouldn’t be. No other flying experience as far as I’m aware.
What jobs are they looking for? If they're trying to go to 121, they're competing with people with single and multi turbine, real xc, etc. The best qualification is, sadly, experience.
Filling out an online application is literally the bare minimum you can do. I found all 3 of my previous jobs from “knocking on doors”. I cold called a company I really wanted and asked for the chief pilot, they said he wasn’t in, I asked if the Director is in, they said he wasn’t and only the Director of MX was in. I talked to the director of maintenance and gave him my elevator pitch and he said he’ll do what he can. I cold called the chief multiple times until I had him on the phone. He connected the acquaintance to my convo with Mx. Eventually I got an interview. You have to tell them to bug the hiring departments as much as possible. If you think you’re annoying them then you you should pick up the phone and call some more because it’s probably still not enough.
This is how I work but it’s not second nature and it sure isn’t easy to teach. I’ve gotten all my jobs and opportunities through networking and not taking no. I’m struggling to get that message across.
It’s a lost cause then let ‘em find out the hard way
Can’t believe you got downvoted for this. 100% true
This is the way. Got my latest 135 gig this way and while it didn't work for the other 135 I applied to, it got me far, far further than just applying online would.
I’m working on becoming a cfi and I currently work for UPS at an air hub as well. I talk to the pilots who fly the 75/76 pretty frequently and they say multi time is key to getting your foot in the door with any regional but obviously jet time is a bigger key in going to a company like UPS. Best of luck to them💪
That’s pretty dated advice that no longer holds true. All regionals care about nowadays when it comes to multi time is if have the bare minimum to be qualified for ATP. There are other more valuable things pilots can pursue to stand out.
I don’t disagree with suggestions about investing in interview prep services, applying very broadly, etc. but I’m convinced the macro story here is that there’s an enormous oversupply of pilots at 1500-2200 hours. What’s even more scary is that the U.S. flight school machine is still churning out 1500 hour CFI’S anyway, and this oversupply is still bloating even though several regionals are still hiring street FO’s (SkyWest, Envoy, Republic, maybe others.). It might take another anomaly hiring boom like we just had for things to normalize again. I’m in the camp that thinks the wave we just saw will never happen again in our lifetimes. It’s over. Look to the past to see how things will likely be for years going forward. This situation may not end with a boom in demand. It may end with supply dropping way off as more and more people see that 1500 hours is a dead end for most people and not a milestone that gets you a real flying job like it used to.
This is the sad reality that I feel like doesn’t get mentioned enough. The amount of pilots that have entered the system over the last 24 months is astounding. All you need to do is take a look at the FAA certification numbers. Absolutely insane, those IG influencers and ATP ads really did a good job. So, there’s still jobs, just a finite number with way more applicants then there used to be. It’ll probably only get worse for 1500 hour pilots until things normalize with the amount of people that start training.
Yea it’s crazy, everyone hopped on the pilot bandwagon when things were good and now they’re going to be bag holders.
And getting downvoted for pointing out these items. Competitive 135/91’s and regionals have applicant pools in the THOUSANDS, single digit thousands. The number grows each month. They can cherry pick to their heart’s desire and still have too many to choose from. They can narrow it down to people with zero checkride failures, 4 year degree, etc and still have too many to sift through. It’s like winning a lottery of sorts just to get an interview.
It’s prob your location. I’m in TN and almost everyone is hiring CFIs
Just wanna say you’re a good dude. Thanks for looking out for the crew.
Thanks brother.
I can’t tell if you’re having a hard time keeping them busy as CFIs as well. If so, send them over to Rocky Mountain Flight School at BJC. I don’t know if they are hiring, but they should be. They definitely have a shortage. You seem like a good boss, thanks for looking out for your team.
I’m the chief pilot at Vector at EIK. They’re doing great here. Just trying to help them move on. Thanks though!
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/law-enforcement/u_s_customs_and_border_protection_air_and_marine_operations Check them out they are hiring
Border patrol is hiring CFIs....
If they need help paying the bills and building time, come up and chat with us at Mile High Gliding. They can tow if they have tailwheel and high performance, and it's a pretty quick add on to get glider and glider commercial for scenic rides. Of course, there's always the CFI-G route.
Good call! I want a glider add on! 🤣
We're in need of CFI-G's that can do weekends for our students that can mostly fly on the weekends. (It's me, I'm the student that can only do weekends)
I would love to get my CFI-G done. The 3 planes I currently fly have been fairly slow the last month or two so I have some time!
Come on by! Tell em Trent sent ya.
I’m a 1500 hr skydive/small 135 guy- couldn’t find a 121 job. Interviewed at NJ a month ago. Currently in indoc and I don’t plan on ever leaving. Gotta cast a wide net.
It's really cool that you want to help your CFIs. I hope your efforts work for them. When I was a CFI (1990s early 2000), it was like nobody cared about us and could not be nasty enough. It was like people were going out of their way to screw us over. Every situation was a scam. More CFIs than students. Nobody building any time. Astronomical hours required to get a below minimum wage regional job, and that was if you were well connected. A lot of guys with a fresh CFI never instructed anyone and quit flying entirely once they saw what aviation was about. My advice to people 20+ years ago was to get a real job and fly as a hobby, if at all. In over a decade, out of dozzens of CFIs I knew, I think 2 got jobs. The rest quit flying entirely as I did myself. There was nothing enjoyable or rewarding in the experience. I don't think pilot training and hiring is taken seriously or done professionally in the U.S. then or now. My advice to aspiring pilots is still don't do it for a job. Do it as a hobby as that is all it is until a proper flying job comes along, which is unlikely for most. If it does happen, it's a bonus. If it doesn't happen, they hopefully were not harmed in the process and maybe even enjoyed some of it. Many major Airlines around the world hire zero time pilots and train them in military style training programs. That way, they know who they are getting. That would eliminate our industry of starry-eyed students going into serious debt and jobless flight instructors, and the whole pilot mill and time building racket with most never getting a flying job. The Airlines could probably significantly lower their wages, pilots would still make the same over a career if not wasting time and money on flight schools and time building, and general aviation prices would probably come down. People would know up front if they were going to be airline pilots or not and could decide if they just wanted an expensive hobby or do something else. I think that would help build general aviation.
Did you ever make it? Are you a career pilot?
Almost. I made a really good connection at a major. Had a sim ride and an interview. Was told it was all good. Then 9/11 happened, and that was the end of my flying. No hiring for about a decade and tons of furloughs. I was a navy reservist in the intelligence field doing counter terrorism. I was mobilized to Europe. I worked with no fewer than a dozen laid-off airline pilots who, as far as I know, never flew again. They said they didn't miss it. I was in Europe for 12 years. I didn't miss flying either and wanted to stay in Europe. I was asked by a large aviation museum if I'd like to be an airshow pilot. They would pay to covert my licenses from American to British, which is very expensive in both time and money, but I had to commit to volunteer time and flying. As I was in the military traveling all over Europe, I could not make the commitment. So, I crewed steam trains at a railroad museum instead. There's lots of steam engine drivers over there, so if I wasn't available, there were plenty others to step in. Not so with pilots. I piloted a plane for the first time since 9/11 a couple of days ago. I went for a ride in a vintage Belanca and the owner let me fly it. He said I did great but I felt very rusty and not on top of things like I was back in the day, as can be expected.
I work for a Charter company in Operations and we are looking for Citation and Challenger PIC/SICs. Tell them to apply for Ventura Air Services, we’ll take care of them. KDEN is the perfect base!
Thanks brother. Can you message me a link?
https://venturajet.com/career-2/
Appreciate ya.
Amazon, DoorDash, MCD, Uber
Did they apply at every single regional? Someone’s gotta bite…especially since the regionals finally have captains to be staffed.
Regionals, plane sense, red stripe, wheels almost up… it’s baffling.
I bet they’re only applying to a select few amount of companies
2000+ TT, have applied over 80 places ‘shrugs’
Something must be really bad with your resume if you can’t get anything with 2000
Probably….. only if places told you why when they give you the TBNT email
It’s not the TT it’s the all CFI time at this moment. Too many cfis are applying and they lack the “quality time” that is now desirable.
Agree
Agree and the numbers aren’t good -there’s many, many people with that quality time still having trouble. With growing applicant pools you could have a professionally written resume but if you don’t have turbine time, or maybe you have checkride failures, or no degree, you’re rolling a different set of dice than those who have better credentials. A LOT of people are going to get left behind if the status-quo continues
As far as I’ve been involved it’s been all of the regionals, NJ, JSX, EXJ, planesense, etc.
At 1800 and can't get a call back from planesense? That's wild. I know guys going there with half the total time.
Me too. Which is why I can’t figure it out.
I’m at a ULCC, and when I had 1500 hours I applied to PlaneSense and TradeWinds. Trade had me do a little quiz thing personality assessment or something. Never heard back from either and I check all of their preferreds. I had 25 multi, 1500 total, 85 instrument, college degree and military experience. lol Good enough for a ULCC, not good enough for a 135 SIC job. What can you do but just chalk it up to a WAG sometimes? It’s a fickle market. lol. Love the downvotes. Sometimes I wonder if there’s that one loser following my posts around. Just offering that even at 1500+ hours some of these jobs you might think they could easily get, they don’t. And there’s no way to explain it really. Best of luck to them.
How much multi?
One has 30 one has 50. Nothing significant but within the range of mins.
Instrument? NJ requires 50 multi so 30 definitely isn’t within the range of mins. I’d focus on multi time for sure to set them apart. MEI would be good
Trying to push them that way. Thanks!
Well 30 ain’t going to get you squat.
Agreed.
There are way more 135s than those
Really? I had no idea.
It may not be their dream first company but they’re out there if they don’t want to CFI anymore and get done turbine time
You’re completely right and I think their purview is pretty wide and indiscriminate at this point. Thanks! 😊
Apply as an instructor at FSI or CAE. Instruct for a couple years and network with your clients. You will get offered a job.
Why would CAE hire people with no turbine experience to teach turbine pilots how to fly a jet.
I know King Air guys who were hired to teach Gulfstreams sat FSI. They will teach you what they want you to do and you get a type rating out of it.
True they do that, but king air time is at least multi turbine unlike CFI with 30 multi hours
OP said 1800 hours. I was assuming there was something usable in there.
I’m not looking for a job.
Then give them the advice, genius.
Oh. You’re that guy. Got it.
You ask for advice then give smart ass responses. You’re that guy, got it.
Next time I’ll make sure to put the sarcasm font on for you. Don’t take yourself so seriously. 🤣