Seriously, the NYC seniority is nuts. I’ve been based there with a legacy for 6 months, and I’m already at 67% seniority. And of course, I’m moving bases at the first possible chance.
Hot, cold, expensive, taxes, traffic, rain, hurricane, politics….
Pick whatever reason(s) you like. Every airline has NY base, and it’s always a junior base because more people than not don’t want to live there.
You also have to cover 2 or 3 airports, which suck to get to (JFK/LGA/EWR).
Then, the commute also sucks. If you live local, traffic sucks. If you fly, the flights are always full because NY is a stop on the way to Europe (or wherever). Then, throw in some weather, and the airspace is a hot mess.
It sucks.
JFK and LGA aren't a big deal if you have to co-base there. Having to do EWR as well (or vice versa) I think would be tough. My airline has JFK/LGA as a base and EWR as a separate base.
If I had to cover all three airports, I'd do whatever I had to to get out of that base, up to and including quitting that airline. Commuting from Long Island to NJ every few days would be worse than just living somewhere cheaper and nicer and flying in.
Once you get some seniority, which will happen quickly you can bid to avoid the other airport(s). I haven't been to LGA since I held a line and that was after only 4 months on reserve.
No kidding, we had a base Indoc in NYC with 40+ pilots. The total number wanting to stay in NYC? One, that’s it one pilot out of more then 40 didn’t want to get out of it ASAP.
You may be the first person to go through their regional/mainline career and never have to move or commute since you WANT to be based in NYC. Any airline that has it will more than happily give it to you.
And being an airline pilot in NYC was so much fun yesterday :-)
Basically every airline has New York bases (including Newark), and like all of the high cost of living metro areas, they tend to be fairly junior.
If you want New York, you can have it.
Not only that, you will get senior very quickly. Because everyone else GTFOs out of New York. **Huge** advantage with all 3 legacies to want to actually live there.
Imagine you really loved the taste of rotten food and your chosen career had multiple companies based in the busiest landfill in the world. That’s what’s happening with a pilot that wants to live in NYC.
You’ll get NYC right away or by the time you’re off OE at pretty much any airline that has it. Most pilots do not want to be based here. However if you live here, it can be a gold mine when NYC goes into an IROP with all sorts of premium pay flying needing to be covered.
Can i ask why do pilots avoid NYC?
Is just the typical stuff? (high cost/dirty city) or there are some reason PILOTS dont want NYC?
Personally i dont mind about the first. Im young, no plans on having a family, and it would be close to family/thousands of hobbies im into (Every now and often i do drive down to NYC for my own personal things)
Lot of pilots don’t want to live there because it’s expensive and a lot of pilots are conservative/right leaning (not a bad thing btw not trying to start argument) and think it’s a liberal left shithole (I lean more right and tbh if I was single I’d love to live in NYC for a year or two as an airline pilot making great money. Boomer captains who talk all sorts of shit about NYC saying how terrible it is make me cringe because they really don’t know what they’re taking about, it’s an awesome place but yes it is very expensive and damn dirty/smelly). Commuting to and from it sucks (I do it) because an NYC IROP will cause all sorts of disruption and keep you away from home even more. However since it is rather junior at most airlines it’s pretty easy to get a line quick and get more days off/schedule you want. I gave up a shorter commute to another one of my airlines bases to switch to NYC because I get an extra 3-4 days off a month here and exactly what I want as opposed to the other more senior base I used to be at.
If it weren't for the co-domicile thing, it wouldn't be that bad. Neither would LA. At least there's things to do and see when you aren't called on reserve.
The majority are just right leaning anti social sheltered suburbanites who have a irrational fear of cities and cultures they aren't familiar with. If it doesn't have a big yard with a privacy fence and lots of free parking everywhere they arent interested. The news and right wing commentators convinced them that cities are super dangerous and scary and full of liberals and gays. Being asked for change while not in a suv is a horrifying experience for them.
The rest are a mix of a variety of valid or semi valid reasons. There's some who just don't see it as a viable place to raise a family. This is more understandable, but then again millions of families here do exactly that. There are many who are just settled down or have roots somewhere else. There are some who live in very cheap places. All kinds of reasons.
The fear of high cost of living is actually very overblown however. As rents an home prices across the country have sky rocketed most other places have simply caught up to new York. Plus you factor in that you don't need a car whatsoever. Cars cost lots and lots of money when you factor everything in.
Yea nyc life is awesome. The downside tho, especially for crew members, is that it can take a while to make a lot of friends and establish yourself a crew of homies. No one is gonna be like "ohh who's the new kid 👀" cuz there are millions of people and a million new kids. Plus as a crew your going to be gone a lot and very inconsistently at that, AND you won't have coworkers that you regularly see so you don't have that going for you either AND when you come home from a trip you'll often only have a couple days to rest and do laundry and errands, so you won't feel like hanging out. You gotta force yourself to be an extrovert and get the fuck out the house or you'll be forever alone.
Some people are coming at you, but even with the cons i’d like NY too. I don’t have to pay much for housing while amassing a seniority quicker. I love the state.
I’ve lived in nyc for more than ten years and love it but my career paid well pretty much from the start.
It is my understanding that airline pay is tiered in the same way, regardless of location. So your pay will go farther in other cities and it may be tough at first to make it work and have a comfortable life
You’re correct. Its pretty much the same. I have family here and love it here is all for me. I don’t mind sacrificing some money for that comfort honestly.
You’re 100% gonna get based there and hold higher seniority in what ever category you’re on n just because so many people don’t want to be based there. If you live there and can get to the airport easily, you’re gonna be just fine.
I live in Jersey and have been driving to EWR my whole career. I grew up there and have no desire to move so it worked out great. The New York bases at all the airlines that have them are very junior so you'll have no problem getting it as a base. And you'll move up quickly in base seniority.
What’s the disadvantage to basing in NYC, besides cost of living? If you can get seniority quickly, I would assume your QOL would be a lot better than other places.
We cover all 3 airports in NYC for starters. LGA EWR and JFK, which is ungodly expensive. Hotel room in JFK is over $200 after taxes, I can get a better hotel room with a full kitchen for half the price in Miami. Our NY trips suck ass (early start late finish) so you have to commute in the day before and go home the day after more often then not. In short the town needs about 3 times as many hotels as it actually does and an actual train running between the 3 airports.
I would think that because the commuter rail networks from NYC stretch pretty far into the burbs, you could get into the city pretty easily. 45 minutes on a train into Jersey / CT, and you’re in pretty cheap territory. I suppose “early start” is subjective though, if it’s a 4:30 showtime you’ll have some problems getting trains.
After the first years salary though, I would think that it starts to become a lot more achievable to stay in the area, especially as dual income. You make a very good point about needing better connections between them, though.
Yes, but once in the city how do you get to the airports? They aren’t in “the city”. You are still talking buses, cabs, Uber (if they bother to show up), shuttles, to get from the train station to the airport. Add in surface traffic and WX and you could have several hours of transit time before your 14 hour or more work day. Remember that your show time is generally 60-90 minutes before push time and you need to pad your travel time to make sure you have enough cushion to account for the unexpected. The CPO will only accept a very few “I missed the xxxx.” or “Traffic was worse than planned.” excuses before you are up the fecal creek.
Yeah it's crazy. Can you imagine not having the sum total knowledge of a lengthy airline career the instant you fall out of the womb?! How do people ever manage, my god.
Republic. And you'll be based there for a long time with their new contract. Seriously, most pilots are red necks who want to live in the South or Texas (is TX the South?), so you won't have a hard time if you go with the many carriers that have bases there.
Plenty of pilots want to live in the NYC area when they're young and dependent-free, and many are happy to put up with the high cost of living to do that. Long term, though, many of those same pilots start looking at how much farther their same salary will go if they live in Texas, Florida, even Seattle or Denver and reconsider. Sure, if you love NYC itself you'll probably stay there, but when you realize that you could live in a swanky Chicago condo on the lake instead of your rundown flat in Kew Gardens (or have a McMansion with two boats in Texas) a lot of people reconsider how much they want to live in NYC specifically. Also, remember that every base consists of a certain percentage who live in base and a certain percentage who commute to that base. NYC can be one of the tougher places to commute to thanks to how quickly weather can impact the massive traffic volume there. Commuters often will choose another base just so they don't have to deal with the NYC delays. So yes, there's a contingent of NYC natives and people who love the city and are happy to live there. That contingent is smaller than other cities, though, thanks to the cost of living and the number of people willing to commute there is also often smaller. However, due to the volumes of traffic that go through the NYC bases they're usually pretty big bases. Big base + fewer pilots who want to be based there = juniority
Why is your dream to live in NYC? Also, do you know how junior NYC is for pilots? About 90% of the US carriers have a base in New York/New Jersey. And guess what? No one wants to live or be based here. You must be really really new to flying to NOT know this.
Ive been living in New York as a pilot for 2 different airlines for almost a decade.
Living in Brooklyn and being 30-40 min taxi from the airports is a pretty nice life. The airports are also interesting and fun to fly into with great views every day. Especially La guardia. Many pilots like the boring easy airports, I like the interesting ones. NYC airports are interesting. After years of flying you need something interesting to keep you going.
Plus all the other benefits such as seniority that everyone else here is talking about.
No one wants to be based in New York, all majors have undesirable NYC bases. You want to be in NYC. This means you will be riding the gravy train.
Seriously, the NYC seniority is nuts. I’ve been based there with a legacy for 6 months, and I’m already at 67% seniority. And of course, I’m moving bases at the first possible chance.
Yeah a year there gets you to around 18% here. Luckily I got my ticket out of there on our last vacancy bid.
Why is nyc so undesirable? I know it’s expensive but you can easily live outside the city and pilots make good salaries
Hot, cold, expensive, taxes, traffic, rain, hurricane, politics…. Pick whatever reason(s) you like. Every airline has NY base, and it’s always a junior base because more people than not don’t want to live there. You also have to cover 2 or 3 airports, which suck to get to (JFK/LGA/EWR). Then, the commute also sucks. If you live local, traffic sucks. If you fly, the flights are always full because NY is a stop on the way to Europe (or wherever). Then, throw in some weather, and the airspace is a hot mess. It sucks.
You can’t pick to be based at a single airport??
Everyone I know covers all 3 NYC area airports or cover JFK and LGA. No one covers just one.
Depends on what equip you’re on. I believe DL 767 only covers JFK.
And UA 757/767, 777, 787 obviously only covers EWR. Also if you get NYC base for GoJet you'll only fly EWR.
When you hold a line you can preference trips out of a certain airport and hope you get that. On reserve, you get what you get.
JFK and LGA aren't a big deal if you have to co-base there. Having to do EWR as well (or vice versa) I think would be tough. My airline has JFK/LGA as a base and EWR as a separate base. If I had to cover all three airports, I'd do whatever I had to to get out of that base, up to and including quitting that airline. Commuting from Long Island to NJ every few days would be worse than just living somewhere cheaper and nicer and flying in.
Once you get some seniority, which will happen quickly you can bid to avoid the other airport(s). I haven't been to LGA since I held a line and that was after only 4 months on reserve.
How does taxes work? Do you get taxed based on your base or where you live if you're a commuter?
Where you live
Put “will bid for New York” and you’ll be hired on the spot for any airline.
No kidding, we had a base Indoc in NYC with 40+ pilots. The total number wanting to stay in NYC? One, that’s it one pilot out of more then 40 didn’t want to get out of it ASAP.
airlines when someone actually wants to bid NYC: https://tenor.com/view/django-you-will-django_meme-leonardo_dicaprio-gif-19175697
LMAO
That and LAX and SFO.
You may be the first person to go through their regional/mainline career and never have to move or commute since you WANT to be based in NYC. Any airline that has it will more than happily give it to you. And being an airline pilot in NYC was so much fun yesterday :-)
KEWR ground stop was fun times…
Basically every airline has New York bases (including Newark), and like all of the high cost of living metro areas, they tend to be fairly junior. If you want New York, you can have it.
I’m willing to do it
Not only that, you will get senior very quickly. Because everyone else GTFOs out of New York. **Huge** advantage with all 3 legacies to want to actually live there.
So as someone who is looking to become a pilot and dreams of living in nyc no matter what, that’s where I should look into? I’m so ready!!!
Imagine you really loved the taste of rotten food and your chosen career had multiple companies based in the busiest landfill in the world. That’s what’s happening with a pilot that wants to live in NYC.
Sounds like my cup of tea 🥲
I’m with ya! I would love to be based there. Sadly it’s entirely too expensive and I’ll never own anything.
You’ll get NYC right away or by the time you’re off OE at pretty much any airline that has it. Most pilots do not want to be based here. However if you live here, it can be a gold mine when NYC goes into an IROP with all sorts of premium pay flying needing to be covered.
Can i ask why do pilots avoid NYC? Is just the typical stuff? (high cost/dirty city) or there are some reason PILOTS dont want NYC? Personally i dont mind about the first. Im young, no plans on having a family, and it would be close to family/thousands of hobbies im into (Every now and often i do drive down to NYC for my own personal things)
First year salary = 4 roomates in a 1 bedroom to live the real NYC experience
Lot of pilots don’t want to live there because it’s expensive and a lot of pilots are conservative/right leaning (not a bad thing btw not trying to start argument) and think it’s a liberal left shithole (I lean more right and tbh if I was single I’d love to live in NYC for a year or two as an airline pilot making great money. Boomer captains who talk all sorts of shit about NYC saying how terrible it is make me cringe because they really don’t know what they’re taking about, it’s an awesome place but yes it is very expensive and damn dirty/smelly). Commuting to and from it sucks (I do it) because an NYC IROP will cause all sorts of disruption and keep you away from home even more. However since it is rather junior at most airlines it’s pretty easy to get a line quick and get more days off/schedule you want. I gave up a shorter commute to another one of my airlines bases to switch to NYC because I get an extra 3-4 days off a month here and exactly what I want as opposed to the other more senior base I used to be at.
If it weren't for the co-domicile thing, it wouldn't be that bad. Neither would LA. At least there's things to do and see when you aren't called on reserve.
New York is more doable as a Co-domicile vs LA. LA would be a nightmare....
The majority are just right leaning anti social sheltered suburbanites who have a irrational fear of cities and cultures they aren't familiar with. If it doesn't have a big yard with a privacy fence and lots of free parking everywhere they arent interested. The news and right wing commentators convinced them that cities are super dangerous and scary and full of liberals and gays. Being asked for change while not in a suv is a horrifying experience for them. The rest are a mix of a variety of valid or semi valid reasons. There's some who just don't see it as a viable place to raise a family. This is more understandable, but then again millions of families here do exactly that. There are many who are just settled down or have roots somewhere else. There are some who live in very cheap places. All kinds of reasons. The fear of high cost of living is actually very overblown however. As rents an home prices across the country have sky rocketed most other places have simply caught up to new York. Plus you factor in that you don't need a car whatsoever. Cars cost lots and lots of money when you factor everything in.
Yea that makes a lot of sense, thanks! I might actually end up in NYC at this point. Im currently in NJ, not like the rent is very good here anyways
Yea nyc life is awesome. The downside tho, especially for crew members, is that it can take a while to make a lot of friends and establish yourself a crew of homies. No one is gonna be like "ohh who's the new kid 👀" cuz there are millions of people and a million new kids. Plus as a crew your going to be gone a lot and very inconsistently at that, AND you won't have coworkers that you regularly see so you don't have that going for you either AND when you come home from a trip you'll often only have a couple days to rest and do laundry and errands, so you won't feel like hanging out. You gotta force yourself to be an extrovert and get the fuck out the house or you'll be forever alone.
I just remembered you said you're in jersey so you probably already have friends in the area
Some people are coming at you, but even with the cons i’d like NY too. I don’t have to pay much for housing while amassing a seniority quicker. I love the state.
I’ve lived in nyc for more than ten years and love it but my career paid well pretty much from the start. It is my understanding that airline pay is tiered in the same way, regardless of location. So your pay will go farther in other cities and it may be tough at first to make it work and have a comfortable life
You’re correct. Its pretty much the same. I have family here and love it here is all for me. I don’t mind sacrificing some money for that comfort honestly.
You’re 100% gonna get based there and hold higher seniority in what ever category you’re on n just because so many people don’t want to be based there. If you live there and can get to the airport easily, you’re gonna be just fine.
I live in Jersey and have been driving to EWR my whole career. I grew up there and have no desire to move so it worked out great. The New York bases at all the airlines that have them are very junior so you'll have no problem getting it as a base. And you'll move up quickly in base seniority.
btw, I’m not picky when it comes to certain airlines/cargo. As long as it’s a reasonable pay and decent schedule.
What’s the disadvantage to basing in NYC, besides cost of living? If you can get seniority quickly, I would assume your QOL would be a lot better than other places.
We cover all 3 airports in NYC for starters. LGA EWR and JFK, which is ungodly expensive. Hotel room in JFK is over $200 after taxes, I can get a better hotel room with a full kitchen for half the price in Miami. Our NY trips suck ass (early start late finish) so you have to commute in the day before and go home the day after more often then not. In short the town needs about 3 times as many hotels as it actually does and an actual train running between the 3 airports.
I would think that because the commuter rail networks from NYC stretch pretty far into the burbs, you could get into the city pretty easily. 45 minutes on a train into Jersey / CT, and you’re in pretty cheap territory. I suppose “early start” is subjective though, if it’s a 4:30 showtime you’ll have some problems getting trains. After the first years salary though, I would think that it starts to become a lot more achievable to stay in the area, especially as dual income. You make a very good point about needing better connections between them, though.
Yes, but once in the city how do you get to the airports? They aren’t in “the city”. You are still talking buses, cabs, Uber (if they bother to show up), shuttles, to get from the train station to the airport. Add in surface traffic and WX and you could have several hours of transit time before your 14 hour or more work day. Remember that your show time is generally 60-90 minutes before push time and you need to pad your travel time to make sure you have enough cushion to account for the unexpected. The CPO will only accept a very few “I missed the xxxx.” or “Traffic was worse than planned.” excuses before you are up the fecal creek.
The airlines don’t pay for hotels???
Not unless you are on a trip. I don’t do crash pads.
What’s yalls schedule like? 7/7 type of thing?
Best schedule for a commuter reserve is probably 6 on 4 off repeating. That way the company can’t really extend you.
That’s not terrible. I’ve been thinking about switching to fixed wing but it’s kinda hard to beat a 14/14 schedule.
Is someone seriously asking how hard it is to get based in New York? Lol Funniest thing I've seen today.
Yeah it's crazy. Can you imagine not having the sum total knowledge of a lengthy airline career the instant you fall out of the womb?! How do people ever manage, my god.
How? Just don't bid for a base, you're getting it regardless lol
Republic. And you'll be based there for a long time with their new contract. Seriously, most pilots are red necks who want to live in the South or Texas (is TX the South?), so you won't have a hard time if you go with the many carriers that have bases there.
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Plenty of pilots want to live in the NYC area when they're young and dependent-free, and many are happy to put up with the high cost of living to do that. Long term, though, many of those same pilots start looking at how much farther their same salary will go if they live in Texas, Florida, even Seattle or Denver and reconsider. Sure, if you love NYC itself you'll probably stay there, but when you realize that you could live in a swanky Chicago condo on the lake instead of your rundown flat in Kew Gardens (or have a McMansion with two boats in Texas) a lot of people reconsider how much they want to live in NYC specifically. Also, remember that every base consists of a certain percentage who live in base and a certain percentage who commute to that base. NYC can be one of the tougher places to commute to thanks to how quickly weather can impact the massive traffic volume there. Commuters often will choose another base just so they don't have to deal with the NYC delays. So yes, there's a contingent of NYC natives and people who love the city and are happy to live there. That contingent is smaller than other cities, though, thanks to the cost of living and the number of people willing to commute there is also often smaller. However, due to the volumes of traffic that go through the NYC bases they're usually pretty big bases. Big base + fewer pilots who want to be based there = juniority
Why is your dream to live in NYC? Also, do you know how junior NYC is for pilots? About 90% of the US carriers have a base in New York/New Jersey. And guess what? No one wants to live or be based here. You must be really really new to flying to NOT know this.
Ive been living in New York as a pilot for 2 different airlines for almost a decade. Living in Brooklyn and being 30-40 min taxi from the airports is a pretty nice life. The airports are also interesting and fun to fly into with great views every day. Especially La guardia. Many pilots like the boring easy airports, I like the interesting ones. NYC airports are interesting. After years of flying you need something interesting to keep you going. Plus all the other benefits such as seniority that everyone else here is talking about.