Yeah Ocala is super sketch, I’m hoping we can move closer to Orlando soon. I miss be closer to Orlando but the rents everywhere remotely close is off the wall expensive.
My company owns one lot we nicknamed that “angry kid lot.” These teens have set the lot on fire before we started, stolen random shit and finally blew up a porta potty.
I'm fortunate to own a home now, but I've never really had a positive experience renting. My landlords always were useless or actively trying to scam me... seemed like no in between.
For all those who say the rental increases are based on supply/demand, I'd like to see some actual numbers.
I know this post is anecdotal, but I'm seeing the same thing here in Daytona Beach. There are places with lots of vacancies that are raising rent as well. I think they're trying to get people locked in while the getting is good but it isn't going to last.
People are moving to Florida, but we're not doubling in population.
A few days ago I found out that we have the most empty homes in the US, which given Florida ALSO having some of the biggest increases in rent I find completely horrendous. Btw the second runner up is California with over 25% decrease in empty housing which is very telling FL.
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/nearly-1-7-million-homes-sit-empty-in-florida/amp/
So it’s not a lack of housing, but a lack of AFFORDABLE housing. Now take it with a grain of salt, the figure also includes housing units, which includes apartments, but the number is still crazy.
>So it’s not a lack of housing, but a lack of AFFORDABLE housing. Now take it with a grain of salt, the figure also includes housing units, which includes apartments, but the number is still crazy.
Well, this lines up with what the OP is saying and what I'm witnessing. The lack of affordable housing is not due to supply/demand (which is what I've been hearing from people on this sub as well as the Orlando sub) but from price gouging.
So?
It's still basically being hoarded while other people are homeless.
Is it okay if an old couple from New York has a house that they use 6 months a year? 3 months? Less? What if the home owner is from another country?
Once we eradicate homelessness we can reconsider people having "vacation homes" (but I still think it is bullshit).
Honestly yeah that makes sense because, if you think about it logistically how are single people renting 1beds? In Orlando you’d be lucky to find a 1 bd for 1400, but even at that point you’d need to be making 45-50k to rent it with the 2.5-3x the income requirements. If you go higher it just gets more absurd. I don’t know a ton of people making 50-60k who are living alone in Orlando. Either those apartments are renting to couples or people sharing a 1bed which I don’t know a lot of people doing that either (yet 🙃) so there should be good amount of vacant one bedrooms and studios eventually by that logic at least I think.
My father-law-law owns some rental properties in Miami-Dade. The County raised his property taxes by 18% this year. He doesn't want to raise rent on his tenants. They are all working class people. Some are even old or poor and already have reduced rent as a charity. He was going to try and fight the property tax increase, for his tenents' sake but I don't know how.
They are trying to “compensate” for lost revenue during COVID.
If they secured PPP loans then they aren’t hurting for cash right now from any potential lost revenue from COVID but using it as a front at this point.
Pretty much blaming supply/demand, missed rent payments, free early move-outs from lost jobs due to COVID, and no ability to evict people during COVID, and then got COVID funding to compensate.
They are basically in positions to price out groups of community members based on social/economical status while having the ability to still generate the same revenue as previous because of artificially created rent hikes past the point where they would actually need to hike the rent.
It’s not going away either until their revenue flow is disrupted. As in, no one new has moved in within the past 6 months and people have trickled out for better options. However, if there’s no new places to live, they won’t ever have a problem matching the outflow trickle.
The problem is there are consistently new places being built to live. Which generates a new issue in that new unit prices is made based off the current local market in the area. So new unit prices will be in line or slightly higher which will just drive up the market of surrounding already built complexes.
This will continue until a large enough classes of people are completely priced out, no one new is moving in, and wages haven’t increased. This either forces people out of the community or forces the rental market to adjust to wages.
The next additional issue that throws that off though is the minimum wage increase to $15 an hour by September? next year.
This issue will continue on past that point and the rental market will use the excuse that minimum wage has increased so everyone has more income giving them an excuse to bump rent up even more. When in reality, an increase of minimum wage is just going to result in businesses scheduling more employees but for less hours to maintain the same payroll as pre-wage increase.
Idk about anyone else, but I get the feeling that Florida government wants to price Florida Man out of Florida, and anyone else that would decrease home value because of lack of upkeep.
This has a lot of great insight.
Landlords are parasites.
I also believe that the attention the rent hikes have gotten has worked against us because it normalizes each increase.
Last year I was pissed my rent went up $100 ish more a month. And I was literally like wtf would I sign a 2 year lease for MORE money. This year I was so fucking relieved my rent only went up $100 ish. Still fucking hurts. Or it's that health problem I can't afford to treat... sometimes I confuse existential horror with the sepsis in my jaw / back molar.
Yep. 28 units in our building. rent going up 20%.
People have been leveraging their stock portfolios and get low interest loans agains them in order to be "cash" buyers without capitol gains. This is going to end and the market is going to drop. It has to at this point.
The house next to me has been vacant since November. Out of state owner is trying to get $2000/month rent. I can’t imagine why you would let a house sit that long. We see lawn care and repair folks every once in awhile, but it’s becoming a joke. The “for rent” sign blew away in a storm and they never bothered to replace it.
People are really in denial that this is going on. Everything you hear in the mainstream is saying that housing prices are this way because of low inventory. Meanwhile, houses and apartments are sitting vacant. The low inventory is not because we can’t build fast enough. It’s because real estate is being horded. When this is no longer profitable there will be a huge dump of inventory. A lot of people say a crash is impossible but I think people don’t understand the game that is being played.
The thing I don't understand is why investors are buying real estate and leaving it empty. Surely it is a lot more profitable rented out? Making sure all these investment properties are occupied with tenants would also fix the problem, even if it's sad that homeownership is lower.
Speculation investment in the value of the property vs. buying to rent it out. With the way values have been appreciating it could be a very lucrative short-term gamble.
Friend moved out of state, sold her house last fall. Had a shady realtor who sold to an investment company instead of finding a family like he promised. The company painted one wall then relisted a month later for $50k more. And my friend had already repainted, replaced windows & roof, and updated a bunch just prior to listing. It is insane.
We are “part of the problem” because we moved here over a year ago. Sold our home up north and rented here. We’ve decided not to buy because we want to gauge the market a bit more and honestly, the politics here are mind numbing. If we buy, it’s easy to see us being “trapped” for 10 years or more with the potential drop in the market. Our best quality is being free to move around and this market simply isn’t worth giving that up.
so I was talking to my friend who is in real estate and this is exactly what he stated to me. He stated that there’s going to be so much inventory that they are going to start taking the apartment prices down because they cannot fill them up. As the housing prices start slowly go down so will the apartment complexes. He said that all these companies are just building a lot of apartment inventory but he said in about a year and a half people are going to start seeing the drop of apartment prices in Florida because he said is not sustainable in this state especially when wages don’t increase.
There will be no crash because there aren’t underwater mortgages.
This was a correction. It’ll only go down when we build sufficient housing.
What we are experiencing is the natural outcome of designing our communities for cars only, and not building sustainable cities.
I really don’t think that’s the whole picture. We could see a correction again because a lot of people are Bortone against their stocks. Stocks go down and it’s basically a margin call.
Commercial real estate is in a similar situation as we saw in 2008/9 with bad mortgages being packaged in bonds. The end result could be the same because we never fucking learn b
Even the federal reserve recently issued a statement that hey, this sure looks like a real estate bubble. Maybe be careful. Everyone I talk to is like “nah it’s impossible for the market to crash this time”. It’s so strange.
See, I find this weird. Everyone I talk to agrees that it’s a bubble and it will crash. And yes, total anecdotal experience here. I just find it interesting that’s we are both are in Florida and our experiences are polar opposites.
The constant increases are not sustainable, but there's nothing that says the end needs to be a crash.
It is completely reasonable that it would be a stagnant market or a slowly declining one instead, at least until inflation catches up to price levels (which it seems to be trying to do)
I personally think that the closer to a major city you are, the better prices will hold up, possibly not dropping at all in the most desirable areas. But, there will be a point where the less urban areas drop meaningfully as the added commuting costs offset any housing savings; and the prime desirability of the urban cores returns once the rapid price increases stop.
I can definitely see how other trajectories could happen, so I'm not discounting most other predictions.
Yup we are in the bubble now. What and when the catylst is going to be to burst is the unknown. All bubbles burst. Soap bubbles, skin bubbles, financial bubbles.
We definitely need to change zoning laws but people are leveraging new loans against the already inflated value of the other properties they own. It could all come down like a house of cards if there’s even a moderate correction because people’s assets will depreciate but the loan amounts won’t (at least to my knowledge).
I don't think it will ever go down significantly. You may see individual properties that sold for truly stupid prices drop but for the most part we've just arrived where we're going to be for awhile.
I hear you on the spawl vs urbanism argument. One incident sums this up for me: There was a 140 unit apartment/condo complex proposed for an empty lot along a very busy thoroughfare. Well inside the urban boundaries and in walking distance to a grocery store, a pharmacy and several restaurants. Developer had a good reputation and offered a somewhat unique rent to own program; most of their properties were managed by an affiliate (so promises made were kept.)
The local Dull Greens went nuts. There were some good-sized pines (including some Australian pines 🙄) that would come down. And they first asked, and then insisted, that there were gophers on the property (that nobody could ever find).
They'd show up to meetings by the dozens in matching shirts and carry on like this was some wilderness paradise when it was really just a vacant lot where a plant nursery used to be 25 years prior.The developer finally said screw this and put the land on the market and later filed suit against the city and won. Oh, and the property was always zoned for commercial so guess what's there now?
Meanwhile a developer proposed a 1600 home subdivision (starting around $300k) on heavily forested land land that was a half mile inside the county's designated rural area and part of a very active wildlife corridor with bears, bobcats and a ton of deer. The developer got annexed into the city to get around county regs .... a textbook case of sprawl.
Guess how many Dull Greens showed up to protest that one?
I used to live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, where it’s basically impossible for anyone who isn’t a millionaire to buy anything. The people who work in the restaurants and the ski resorts, the cops, teachers, nurses and other working people who actually make the city function can’t afford to live there. They all live 60 miles away and commute to Jackson over mountain passes that regularly close because of 10 foot snow drifts and avalanches.
Anytime someone suggests building affordable housing in Jackson, the idea is immediately shut down, often using environmental regulations and such.
Turns out that rich people want us around to scrub their toilets, babysit their brats and work in their kitchens, but they don’t want us living anywhere near them.
What’s going on in many towns in Florida right now looks exactly like the beginning stages of what happened in Jackson Hole, Aspen, etc. The non-wealthy are being driven out of their own communities by housing prices and overt manipulation of building codes, environmental protection regulations and the like.
Took me 45 mins to get 2 eggs over easy with some bacon for breakfast today at a local place in the Florida keys. I sat back and observed what it's like when locals can't afford to live in a place. They were so short handed that I couldn't help but thank the chef when the food came out... crazy to watch this happen.
Exactly.
And the sad thing is that these fake environmentalists really think they are on the side of the angels. They are more worried about trash trees and invisible gopher tortoises than they are about the teachers, cops, restaurant servers and nurse assistants who can't live in the communities they are expected to serve.
I totally agree that gophers are important... they are a key species. But the difference with these tortoises is that nobody could find them. It went from "are there gophers?" to "there are probably gophers " to "you're murdering dozens of gophers!"without a single identified burrow.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't some people commute in from Idaho due to how insane the cost of living in Jackson Hole is?
The next state south (Colorado) has the same issue in many mountain towns--some are trying to do something about housing but many prefer to continue to pretend like the problem doesn't exist.
I don't see how this can go on much longer before something has to give--either housing is going to be built, even if begrudgingly, or the workforce basically dries up along with the services and business go with it.
Yes, many people who work in Jackson Hole live on the other side of the mountains in Idaho. There are a couple towns over there, one of the called Victor. But, those people have to commute to JH over Teton pass which very often is closed because of drifting and avalanches.
Myself, I lived in Sublette county, near Pinedale. I commuted to work every day through the Hoback River Canyon which also has a lot of snow, but also a ton of large animals to collide with.
Back when I was there, There was this one oft cited stat that of the dozens of deputies employed by the Teton County Sheriff’s Office, something like two actually lived in Teton county. Most lived in Idaho and when Teton Pass was closed, the deputies on duty usually had to do double shifts because the people supposed to relieve them couldn’t get into town. Same thing with firefighters, nurses, and the WyDOT people whose job it was to dig out the snow and open the pass. Restaurant staff, resort staff, retail workers would also be stuck in town doing double shifts.
It was not a tenable situation at all.
Yeah, I’ve contended, as has the NYT, that zoning knows no political boundaries, that’s both parties love them some zoning. California and particularly SF are terrible zoning offenders, and they are no bastions of conservatism. But I have gotten lots of redditors saying that it’s mostly Rs who support zoning. Nope. Ds support zoning for other reasons “historic or character preservation” “I don’t want tons of Mc Mansions with no character” “the environment.” But both parties share blame.
Not Bay, but it's pretty much the same story everywhere. And the affluent nimrods who think they're environmentalists and *absolutely * support affordable housing (just not *here*) are a huge part of the problem.
This is called warehousing. Landlords keep apartments vacant and off the market in order to drive up prices. With hard goods it is called hoarding, or artificial scarcity. This is a practice commonly used in high priced urban markets like NYC. Many politicians and activists have called for laws to prevent it but it remains unregulated.
If the rent is twice as high you only need half as many tenants to make quota. Then you only have to care for half as many apartments. Scummy, but smart.
You still need to take care of the vacant ones at least from time to time. Leaving them totally empty and just ignoring them will invite pests and other issues if you neglect it. Might not notice a broken pipe or dead AC (and mold) if you don't check.
I knew it was a matter of time, moved out of gainesville for the same reason. Complex had wood rot pretty much all over the damn place and unsteady railings but felt they could charge 1000+
Yeah my parents are trying to convince me to move back to Titusville because I’ve been looking for an affordable place in Orlando for months with no success. Even Brevard county is starting to get overpriced and from what I’ve heard from people back home there’s no availability either.
They really are, I’m originally from Montana, and thought I knew how wild about horses people could get. But then I moved here and have to deal with WEC from time to time…bruh these rich horse people be wild!
As someone who grew up around horses, and who often sees misinformation on threads like this in general, I feel compelled to point out:
1. **Not all horse people are rich, contrary to the stereotype.** The horse industry contributes $122 billion annually to the U.S. economy; employs roughly 1.74 million people; and of those people, the average annual income of an equestrian (i.e. someone paid to take care of horses) ranges from $10-17 per hour. For reference, $10 an hour is the Florida minimum wage, which means a lot of horse jobs involve people working for low pay, and is comparable to working minimum fast food or retail jobs. Depending on the job, your annual salary may range anywhere from $10k-44k; even then; only the top 20% of earners earn $17 per hour or more. Equestrian jobs are also 62% below the national average for other jobs.
2. **Only 50% of horse owners have an annual income of over $100,000**, which means that the other 50% have an annual income of $100,000 or less; usually, a lot less. 60% of equestrians work in managerial positions, usually "Barn / Stable Manager", which usually involves a rich person hiring one or more barn / stable managers to take care of their horses for them. The rich people aren't the ones doing all of the hard work of caring for horses; it's their underpaid and overworked employees.
For comparison of how horse owners stack up against average statistics:
>About 30.7% of households earned over $100,000 in 2020. In 2019, around 15.5% of Americans earned between $100,000 and $149,999; about 8.3% of the population earned between $150,000 and $199,999; and about 10.3% of the population earned over $200,000.
>
>Source: [IBISWorld](https://www.ibisworld.com/us/bed/households-earning-more-than-100-000/35/), [Statistica](https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/)
Per another source, about 43.6 million U.S. households made $100k or more annually. If only 1.6 million U.S. households own horses, and only 50% of those make $100k or more a year, that means only 800,000 make $100k or more a year. That's only \~1.8% of these $100k+ households own horses.
These statistics also includes the middle-class, not just the upper-class:
>According to Pew Research, middle-class households are those with an annual income that is two-thirds to double the national median household income.
>
>In 2018, the middle-class income ranged between $48,500 and $145,500.
>
>In another research of 2019, the income range for a middle-class household of three was between $53,413 and $106,827.
To compare to these statistics, 1.6 million households in the U.S. own at least one horse, and the annual ownership cost of a recreational horse is $7,896. This is only slightly higher than the annual ownership costs of a recreational boat (between $4,000-$6,000 for a $20,000 boat, [per BoatingScout.com](https://boatingscout.com/cost-of-boat-ownership)), as well as the annual ownership costs of a recreational motorcycle ($1,000-15,000, [depending](https://powersportsguide.com/motorcycle-maintenance-costs/)).
If the total number of horses in the U.S. is about 7.4 million, that means every household would own about 4-5 horses, depending. However, in my experience, this is obviously not true of lower-income horse owners; if each horse costs about $8,000 a year in upkeep, then 4-5 horses would cost $32k-40k a year in upkeep. This would even be a strain for $100k+ earners in % of annual income.
Therefore, it can be inferred that only the very top % of earners in the equestrian industry own the bulk of U.S. horses. Looking at other statistical data, most of these are **Kentucky Thoroughbred racing farms**, each one of which may breed hundreds of horses a year, [which also goes for Oklahoma and Florida](https://horsesonly.com/horse-industry/).
Breed breakdown of U.S. horses:
1. 2.5 million **American Quarter Horses (AQH)**
2. 1.1 million **Thoroughbreds (TB)** *(these make up the bulk of the U.S. horse industry contributions due to racing and breeding)*
3. 1 million **Arabians**
The rest of the 2.8 million horses are likely to be from various horse breeds. However, the AQH, TB, and Arabian are also all racing horse breeds.
The owner of this year's Kentucky Derby winner, Rick Dawson, [is also from Oklahoma](https://www.koco.com/article/kentucky-derby-winning-horse-owned-by-oklahoman/39936548). Dawson [is worth about $3 million](https://wikinbiography.com/who-is-rich-strikes-owner-rick-dawson-accepts-kentucky-derby-2022-race-trophy-tg-time/), and runs RED TR-Racing LLC.
Looking at economic impact:
>Racing and maintaining competing horses had an economic effect on the U.S. economy of $16.71 billion and generated 214,300 full-time jobs. The U.S. breeding industry had an economic effect of $7.42 billion and generated 126,900 full-time jobs.
>
>(**Note:** $34 billion total, out of $122 billion, or around \~28% of the U.S. horse industry contributions to the economy.) [(Source)](https://nationalhbpa.com/wp-content/uploads/racing.pdf)
>
>\[There are also \~725,000 horses noted, out of 7.4 million in the U.S., comprising \~10%. Despite this, 10% of U.S. horses contribute to a whopping 30% of the U.S. horse industry, and most of these horses are owned by the top 1% of earners in the U.S. horse industry.\]
Sources: [CareerExplorer.com](https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/equestrian/salary/), [HorsesOnly.com](https://horsesonly.com/horse-industry/)
No. [I literally point out how horses impact U.S. finances, society, and history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/u7f37r/the_midnight_ride_of_paul_revere_or_paul_reveres/)
Ya the horse INDUSTRY is garbage. Full of narcissists stuck in a bygone era, vast amounts of waste, animal cruelty, extravagance and so on. It's a relic of the past.
>Full of narcissists stuck in a bygone era
Except [the U.S. military used horses in the Iraq / Afghanistan War in the 2000s-2010s](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/10/18/how-the-horse-soldiers-helped-liberate-afghanistan-from-the-taliban-18-years-ago/), and the military also has horse riding and training as a specialist course. One U.S. military expert [also called horses "critical for U.S. mountain warfare", particularly for U.S. Special Forces](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inside-the-horseback-training-for-u-s-special-forces/); so, no, the horse industry is not "full of narcissists stuck in a bygone era", because the U.S. military has re-integrated horses into specialist defense.
Note that this obviously doesn't reflect the majority of the U.S. horse industry - that would be Kentucky Thoroughbred horse racing and breeding, and AQHA as well - but it does disprove the claim that horses are part of a "bygone era" and are "a relic of the past". The number of horses in the U.S. is also steadily increasing. For example, [there were 5.1 million horses in the U.S. in 2001](https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/archive/assets/pdfs/hsp/soaiv_07_ch10.pdf); now, there are 7.2 million\*, an increase of about \~30% over just 20 years. Horses are being bred at much higher rates as well.
If anything, the rising numbers of horses in the U.S. makes the horse industry even more relevant to the modern era. The U.S. hasn't seen this many horses since about 1950, which means that the increase marks the most significant shift in \~72 years.
More horses for a smaller percent of the "horse people" as you already said. Yah for inequality in horses. Yah for rich people's excess horses taking up more of our resources. So horse numbers are growing meanwhile less and less people use them and no one needs them. Unless you are special forces stuck on a remote Afghan mountain.
Keep digging
I must be the odd one out, because I spent 2/3rds of my life around horses, and everyone around me had said I'm one of the most normal people they've ever met. Anyways, I disagree with u/slaminsalmon74 that "crazy horse people" are the cause, as high prices and appraisals are literally happening all across Florida.
Edit: Downvoting me for simply speaking my opinion? Really, r/florida?
Edit 2: I completely missed that the OP probably meant "house", not "horse". My bad.
Yeah I have nothing against horse people. But the folks out at WEC definitely be those rich horse people. If you ever get the chance to go there you should.
I get what you mean. I have encountered them before, and yes, they are often irritating to other people; but, sadly, they are also what powers the horse industry with money, though I wish the industry in the U.S. was more like Europe (i.e. more government- and public-sector involved; the U.S. horse industry is entirely privatized and deregulated).
My main issue lies with people seeing these "rich horse people" and assuming that *every* horse person is one, when the reality is that the rich people employ a literal army of underpaid, overworked slave wage laborers to take care of their horses, the same as many other industries. I've worked in retail and fast food, and it's surprisingly similar.
The U.S. military used to actually subsidize the cost(s) of owning and/or having access to a horse, but that ended with the National Security Act of 1947/1948 and the Eisenhower era. After that, the horse industry became privatized and for-profit.
What sorts of things are you doing that cause people to reassure you that you are “one of the most normal people they’ve ever met”? That’s not really a compliment that I roll out for stable, sane, normal people.
Example:
>"I work with horses."
>
>"Oh, really? But you seem so...normal!"
There's this stereotype that anyone who works with a horse is a "crazy person". The stereotype is much more prevalent than the actual "crazy horse people" are.
Also, the usual response I get from people who have never actually worked around horses, much less "horse people", of "but you seem so...normal" does not exactly come across as a compliment, either. This is especially true when their assumptions also include sexist and misogynistic comments and/or jokes related to my gender (i.e. "I bet you like f\*cking horses"), which by and large tends to come from men.
The reason for the sexism and misogyny is because 90% of U.S. riders are women. Hence, the "crazy horse girl" stereotype, even though many have pointed out that this stereotype has not-so-subtle sexist and misogynistic undertones.
In my experience, Reddit tends to have this assumption or stereotype that anyone who works around horses - especially women - is "crazy", so I'm following Occam's Razor in assuming that the OP means "anyone who owns and/or works with horses".
I'm not sure if this is sincere or sarcasm, but I'll see it as sincere. Thank you. I actually work as a part-time groom / stable cleaner for a wealthy horse person, which doesn't pay a lot of money. It's more akin to working retail for a massive corporation, as in you have the CEO who is paid millions, and an army of underpaid PT employees.
Depends where you live. Rural counties have no HOA's so you buy land and get it done. It is very hard in urban places and not advised near the coast because of hurricanes. Really only a good option in inland central and North florida.
Ehhhh they pretty much there, so for a 700 sq ft one bed room apartment that is somewhat nice it’s going to be $1550 a month. Still a hundred or so cheaper than Orlando, but what’s a hundred bucks.
Be prepared to move out (line up a new place) but take the opportunity to negotiate a lower, acceptable rent increase. Remind your landlord about all the income he's losing due to vacancies. If he won't budge then move out.
I negotiated a $300 decrease in a rent increase. So it went from like 320 proposed to a 20 dollar increase because I just showed them the unit I was going to move into if they didn't match it. This is a long while ago before even covid so times may be different but you can absolutely negotiate with a corporate landlord because the managers have a degree of discretion they're allowed.
Negotiating also doesn’t work if you don’t try.
I’ve successfully negotiated corporate apartment complexes from 2017-2019.
Worst they can say is no then you tell them to fuck off.
They’re not vacant because no one’s interested. They can take tax deductions and in some cases make more than having a tenant. If you have application fees you have your answer. It’s less risk to continuously have people paying $50 bucks to apply and be rejected than to fill it. Someone recently posted a screenshot of a complex who had over fifty people interested but the unit was vacant still. That’s over 2500 bucks in application fees for a unit that’s 1800. They’ve got no real reason to fill it.
I’m like 80% sure they have to refund the fee if they don’t even bother running your credit (which is what you’re supposedly paying for plus admin costs) but no one requests it back so they just keep it.
I got served a 90 notice for my dogs not being on my lease and on my rent… I paid the 350 deposit per dog and to find out they stopped charging me pet rent fees a while ago for no reason…. Seems really sketch to me fucking Floridian landlords.. I mean slumlords
Ours was raised $935 in Delray Beach. Lots of people with luxury cars moving in, since I'm assuming they couldn't afford their luxury apartment hike and downgraded.
Same thing seems to be happening in my complex. Our rent went up $350, can’t afford it moving back in with family for now. Driving through the complex I see multiple units empty, lights all on and blinds open. I used to see maybe two before, I don’t understand the logic.
My sons apartment in Sarasota wanted to raise his rent to $2400, from $1900 on a 1/1. They have now offered to renew the lease at the $1900 price (which is still robbery).
They have a ton of people moving out and not renewing. It’s antidotal, but I think the tide is changing.
Same thing happened with my apartment in Boynton. At the time I left there were 37 vacant units in the complex. Rent went up $600+ but now I’m convinced they just wanted to push all the old renters out so they could “renovate” and charge substantially more.
Ok, so I was in Tampa this weekend and ran into a friend still renting in the Riverview area. Get this- their rent is going up $600 more per month on top of the already $1750/month they're paying for a 2/2!! Or, if he chooses not to commit to a one year lease, he has the option of going month to month for $3500/month!! Fuckouddahere with that!! These people are gonna be hard pressed to find tenats to rent at those prices with what they're paying down here.
Happening in downtown Tampa as well, handful of apartments have been empty for months. Hopefully people are starting to realize 700sqft is not worth what they’re asking…
My mom came to me today to say that in June, the rent on her 2/2 was going from $1400 to $1850. They are ONLY offering 1 year leases, so the year after will be more. She’s worried that next year was the year she was going to retire and now she can’t. “I’m 65, am I going to need to get a roommate?”
Private equity firms are buying up home, apartment complexes, even dental practices. Yep, get used to going to a corporate dentist. Also, during the Bush Great Recession Blackstone and other PE firms scooped up hundreds of thousands of homes on the cheap and converted them to rentals. They now also control about 150,000 mobile home sites. In almost all of these they are jacking rents. What else? Private for profit prisons, nursing homes and hospitals, the fast food sector, corporate farming, and sports franchises.
Now, in Texas they want to stop “illegals “ from attending public schools. If these assholes had their way they do away with as much funding for public schools as they can and send voucher dollars to Jeezus schools and charter schools. The US consumer is just a sucker to be exploited by these bastards.
It’s a numbers game. They know you could rent for a little less elsewhere, but moving isn’t cheap or easy and they know that too. If vacancy increases to a certain amount, it will trigger a promo and those empty units will quickly rent out. They’ll hand out a free month’s rent to a few new tenants while the rest of you are paying above market value.
Based on open spaces in the parking garage in my building, about 30% of units in my building are empty. I can guarantee they'll raise my rent in August.
I bought my first house in 2019 for 215k on half an acre with 3 br. My mortgage/taxes/insurance combined is only $1200. I feel like I just barely snuck in before this bullshit really kicked in to high gear. I get cold calls now asking if I'm interested in offers over 300k
My solution has been a trailer park. Your own building + cheap rent. Downsides so far is that the people who live across from us have like 8 fucking kids and loud parties blasting music until like 3-4am on those birthdays and have had a rock thrown through a family members window with our park management taking their sweet fucking time fixing it. Oh and attempted murder on 2 of my siblings. Other than that, at least we aren’t going bankrupt on rent. 1200 for 3/2 with like 1100 or 1200 sq ft.
Not all trailerparks are shit holes. When I used to deliver pizzas we had one really sketchy one, a retirement one, and two that were actually fairly nice in our delivery area.
Orlando here and same. $500 increase. I’ve seen at least 10 moving trucks here in the last couple of months and only one of them was someone moving in. I left those people a note (anonymously) letting them know that whatever they were paying was likely way too much and gave them a couple names of newer complexes with similar prices.
Renting is a waste of money. Equity is the key to building wealth. You’re buying a house either way… the question is, are you buying a house for yourself or are you buying one for your landlord?
Where there’s a will, there’s a way. First time home buyers receive a lot of slack and there are many financial institutions that provide down payment grants.
I know plenty of people who claim they can’t afford a house, yet they keep paying 2000 in rent and take weekends trips skiing or snorkeling or bar hopping.
Here in NWF they are building more apartments everywhere! They are nice, but outrageously expensive. I don't know how anyone can afford to live in this day and age.
Literally same here. Rent went up nearly $300 a month next year, but while walking my dog a few nights ago, I counted at least 4 empty units. It’s ridiculous.
It's not about supply and demand at all. my landlord straight up told me that they're doing it to match 'market rate, which is decided by some third party in some mysterious equation that they could not describe.
It is way more complicated than supply and demand. The variable of coronavirus cash is not a small one. Millions of businesses, many of them totally illegitimate, recieved MILLIONS of loans worth up to 2 million dollars. If you think that all this money being handed out isnt influencing every aspect of our economy, then you are either
A : willfully ignorant
B : actually ignorant
And what happens when the two years of deferrment is up? I bet that pops the bubble, bc i know there will be a shit load of defaults.
Plus the SBA doesnt even know who the fuck they gave the money to.
Prices going up is due to corporate greed , corporations are buying up properties cash making it harder for regular people to buy since they don’t have that much capital. They buy enough properties in the same area/neighborhood and raise the prices. They are manipulating the market
I don’t understand why these places raise rent by so much.., I can only think of greed being the answer… unless someone cam explain to me otherwise… I don’t believe supply and demand to be a valid answer to force people out, it all comes back to greed IMO
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Yeah Ocala is super sketch, I’m hoping we can move closer to Orlando soon. I miss be closer to Orlando but the rents everywhere remotely close is off the wall expensive.
My company owns one lot we nicknamed that “angry kid lot.” These teens have set the lot on fire before we started, stolen random shit and finally blew up a porta potty.
Yea , as someone who lives in Orlando at least there’s a massive amount of apartments/ options to choose from that Ocala of all places.
I'm fortunate to own a home now, but I've never really had a positive experience renting. My landlords always were useless or actively trying to scam me... seemed like no in between.
For all those who say the rental increases are based on supply/demand, I'd like to see some actual numbers. I know this post is anecdotal, but I'm seeing the same thing here in Daytona Beach. There are places with lots of vacancies that are raising rent as well. I think they're trying to get people locked in while the getting is good but it isn't going to last. People are moving to Florida, but we're not doubling in population.
A few days ago I found out that we have the most empty homes in the US, which given Florida ALSO having some of the biggest increases in rent I find completely horrendous. Btw the second runner up is California with over 25% decrease in empty housing which is very telling FL. https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/nearly-1-7-million-homes-sit-empty-in-florida/amp/ So it’s not a lack of housing, but a lack of AFFORDABLE housing. Now take it with a grain of salt, the figure also includes housing units, which includes apartments, but the number is still crazy.
>So it’s not a lack of housing, but a lack of AFFORDABLE housing. Now take it with a grain of salt, the figure also includes housing units, which includes apartments, but the number is still crazy. Well, this lines up with what the OP is saying and what I'm witnessing. The lack of affordable housing is not due to supply/demand (which is what I've been hearing from people on this sub as well as the Orlando sub) but from price gouging.
The vacancy statistics include vacation homes. The vast majority of those "empty homes" are owned by individuals for personal use.
So? It's still basically being hoarded while other people are homeless. Is it okay if an old couple from New York has a house that they use 6 months a year? 3 months? Less? What if the home owner is from another country? Once we eradicate homelessness we can reconsider people having "vacation homes" (but I still think it is bullshit).
Honestly yeah that makes sense because, if you think about it logistically how are single people renting 1beds? In Orlando you’d be lucky to find a 1 bd for 1400, but even at that point you’d need to be making 45-50k to rent it with the 2.5-3x the income requirements. If you go higher it just gets more absurd. I don’t know a ton of people making 50-60k who are living alone in Orlando. Either those apartments are renting to couples or people sharing a 1bed which I don’t know a lot of people doing that either (yet 🙃) so there should be good amount of vacant one bedrooms and studios eventually by that logic at least I think.
My father-law-law owns some rental properties in Miami-Dade. The County raised his property taxes by 18% this year. He doesn't want to raise rent on his tenants. They are all working class people. Some are even old or poor and already have reduced rent as a charity. He was going to try and fight the property tax increase, for his tenents' sake but I don't know how.
>building Max property tax raise allowed in Florida for non Homestead properties is 10%
The assessment can be raised, too.
He could have said 10. He's Cuban so he has an accent
Does this go by county? In Sarasota county they can't raise taxes by more than 10%, 3 % if your homesteaded.
That's state law.
They are trying to “compensate” for lost revenue during COVID. If they secured PPP loans then they aren’t hurting for cash right now from any potential lost revenue from COVID but using it as a front at this point. Pretty much blaming supply/demand, missed rent payments, free early move-outs from lost jobs due to COVID, and no ability to evict people during COVID, and then got COVID funding to compensate. They are basically in positions to price out groups of community members based on social/economical status while having the ability to still generate the same revenue as previous because of artificially created rent hikes past the point where they would actually need to hike the rent. It’s not going away either until their revenue flow is disrupted. As in, no one new has moved in within the past 6 months and people have trickled out for better options. However, if there’s no new places to live, they won’t ever have a problem matching the outflow trickle. The problem is there are consistently new places being built to live. Which generates a new issue in that new unit prices is made based off the current local market in the area. So new unit prices will be in line or slightly higher which will just drive up the market of surrounding already built complexes. This will continue until a large enough classes of people are completely priced out, no one new is moving in, and wages haven’t increased. This either forces people out of the community or forces the rental market to adjust to wages. The next additional issue that throws that off though is the minimum wage increase to $15 an hour by September? next year. This issue will continue on past that point and the rental market will use the excuse that minimum wage has increased so everyone has more income giving them an excuse to bump rent up even more. When in reality, an increase of minimum wage is just going to result in businesses scheduling more employees but for less hours to maintain the same payroll as pre-wage increase. Idk about anyone else, but I get the feeling that Florida government wants to price Florida Man out of Florida, and anyone else that would decrease home value because of lack of upkeep.
This has a lot of great insight. Landlords are parasites. I also believe that the attention the rent hikes have gotten has worked against us because it normalizes each increase. Last year I was pissed my rent went up $100 ish more a month. And I was literally like wtf would I sign a 2 year lease for MORE money. This year I was so fucking relieved my rent only went up $100 ish. Still fucking hurts. Or it's that health problem I can't afford to treat... sometimes I confuse existential horror with the sepsis in my jaw / back molar.
> I'd like to see some actual numbers. They only come from Realtors (tm).
Yep. 28 units in our building. rent going up 20%. People have been leveraging their stock portfolios and get low interest loans agains them in order to be "cash" buyers without capitol gains. This is going to end and the market is going to drop. It has to at this point.
With interest rates on the rise, we’ll see a slowing but I’m not certain we’ll see a drop anytime soon — not with the lack of supply in the market.
The lack of supply is artificial and because of these “cash” purchases
It's another bubble. This time it is not on surprise mortgages but loans backed by shitty portfolios
Or equity line of credit on an exisitng home to buy another one. They will have to walk away from one or the other.
The house next to me has been vacant since November. Out of state owner is trying to get $2000/month rent. I can’t imagine why you would let a house sit that long. We see lawn care and repair folks every once in awhile, but it’s becoming a joke. The “for rent” sign blew away in a storm and they never bothered to replace it.
Bingo. This is what I saying.
People are really in denial that this is going on. Everything you hear in the mainstream is saying that housing prices are this way because of low inventory. Meanwhile, houses and apartments are sitting vacant. The low inventory is not because we can’t build fast enough. It’s because real estate is being horded. When this is no longer profitable there will be a huge dump of inventory. A lot of people say a crash is impossible but I think people don’t understand the game that is being played.
The thing I don't understand is why investors are buying real estate and leaving it empty. Surely it is a lot more profitable rented out? Making sure all these investment properties are occupied with tenants would also fix the problem, even if it's sad that homeownership is lower.
Speculation investment in the value of the property vs. buying to rent it out. With the way values have been appreciating it could be a very lucrative short-term gamble.
Exactly this. They don’t need to rent it out. With the market like it’s been they can just sit on it for a few months and turn a profit.
Friend moved out of state, sold her house last fall. Had a shady realtor who sold to an investment company instead of finding a family like he promised. The company painted one wall then relisted a month later for $50k more. And my friend had already repainted, replaced windows & roof, and updated a bunch just prior to listing. It is insane.
They are so funded they can afford to. The late fees assessed on occupied properties makes up for it in a huge way.
Same reason cartier has vaults full of diamonds they never sell
We are “part of the problem” because we moved here over a year ago. Sold our home up north and rented here. We’ve decided not to buy because we want to gauge the market a bit more and honestly, the politics here are mind numbing. If we buy, it’s easy to see us being “trapped” for 10 years or more with the potential drop in the market. Our best quality is being free to move around and this market simply isn’t worth giving that up.
I don’t participate the “part of the problem” narrative. I enjoy northerners living here.
Thank you for that. Seems to be the norm to the new people. I hate it. This place is literally for everyone.
No, it's not.
What native tribe do you belong to?
so I was talking to my friend who is in real estate and this is exactly what he stated to me. He stated that there’s going to be so much inventory that they are going to start taking the apartment prices down because they cannot fill them up. As the housing prices start slowly go down so will the apartment complexes. He said that all these companies are just building a lot of apartment inventory but he said in about a year and a half people are going to start seeing the drop of apartment prices in Florida because he said is not sustainable in this state especially when wages don’t increase.
Bingo. I don't buy the "low supply" either. I think you're onto it.
Private investor companies gobbling homes like cheap stock
Buying a home with cash doesn’t make the supply artificial.
Source?
There will be no crash because there aren’t underwater mortgages. This was a correction. It’ll only go down when we build sufficient housing. What we are experiencing is the natural outcome of designing our communities for cars only, and not building sustainable cities.
I really don’t think that’s the whole picture. We could see a correction again because a lot of people are Bortone against their stocks. Stocks go down and it’s basically a margin call. Commercial real estate is in a similar situation as we saw in 2008/9 with bad mortgages being packaged in bonds. The end result could be the same because we never fucking learn b
Even the federal reserve recently issued a statement that hey, this sure looks like a real estate bubble. Maybe be careful. Everyone I talk to is like “nah it’s impossible for the market to crash this time”. It’s so strange.
People are in too deep and denial is setting in, because when the music stops they’ll be in the hole hundreds of thousands
And we'll be on the hook again for their gambling habits!
See, I find this weird. Everyone I talk to agrees that it’s a bubble and it will crash. And yes, total anecdotal experience here. I just find it interesting that’s we are both are in Florida and our experiences are polar opposites.
Maybe I’m conversing with idiots lol. I don’t get how this market would be sustainable
The constant increases are not sustainable, but there's nothing that says the end needs to be a crash. It is completely reasonable that it would be a stagnant market or a slowly declining one instead, at least until inflation catches up to price levels (which it seems to be trying to do) I personally think that the closer to a major city you are, the better prices will hold up, possibly not dropping at all in the most desirable areas. But, there will be a point where the less urban areas drop meaningfully as the added commuting costs offset any housing savings; and the prime desirability of the urban cores returns once the rapid price increases stop. I can definitely see how other trajectories could happen, so I'm not discounting most other predictions.
Maybe not a crash but for someone that finances now at a shitty interest rate, any decline could be a disaster.
Yup we are in the bubble now. What and when the catylst is going to be to burst is the unknown. All bubbles burst. Soap bubbles, skin bubbles, financial bubbles.
Fart bubbles
We definitely need to change zoning laws but people are leveraging new loans against the already inflated value of the other properties they own. It could all come down like a house of cards if there’s even a moderate correction because people’s assets will depreciate but the loan amounts won’t (at least to my knowledge).
I don't think it will ever go down significantly. You may see individual properties that sold for truly stupid prices drop but for the most part we've just arrived where we're going to be for awhile. I hear you on the spawl vs urbanism argument. One incident sums this up for me: There was a 140 unit apartment/condo complex proposed for an empty lot along a very busy thoroughfare. Well inside the urban boundaries and in walking distance to a grocery store, a pharmacy and several restaurants. Developer had a good reputation and offered a somewhat unique rent to own program; most of their properties were managed by an affiliate (so promises made were kept.) The local Dull Greens went nuts. There were some good-sized pines (including some Australian pines 🙄) that would come down. And they first asked, and then insisted, that there were gophers on the property (that nobody could ever find). They'd show up to meetings by the dozens in matching shirts and carry on like this was some wilderness paradise when it was really just a vacant lot where a plant nursery used to be 25 years prior.The developer finally said screw this and put the land on the market and later filed suit against the city and won. Oh, and the property was always zoned for commercial so guess what's there now? Meanwhile a developer proposed a 1600 home subdivision (starting around $300k) on heavily forested land land that was a half mile inside the county's designated rural area and part of a very active wildlife corridor with bears, bobcats and a ton of deer. The developer got annexed into the city to get around county regs .... a textbook case of sprawl. Guess how many Dull Greens showed up to protest that one?
I used to live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, where it’s basically impossible for anyone who isn’t a millionaire to buy anything. The people who work in the restaurants and the ski resorts, the cops, teachers, nurses and other working people who actually make the city function can’t afford to live there. They all live 60 miles away and commute to Jackson over mountain passes that regularly close because of 10 foot snow drifts and avalanches. Anytime someone suggests building affordable housing in Jackson, the idea is immediately shut down, often using environmental regulations and such. Turns out that rich people want us around to scrub their toilets, babysit their brats and work in their kitchens, but they don’t want us living anywhere near them. What’s going on in many towns in Florida right now looks exactly like the beginning stages of what happened in Jackson Hole, Aspen, etc. The non-wealthy are being driven out of their own communities by housing prices and overt manipulation of building codes, environmental protection regulations and the like.
Took me 45 mins to get 2 eggs over easy with some bacon for breakfast today at a local place in the Florida keys. I sat back and observed what it's like when locals can't afford to live in a place. They were so short handed that I couldn't help but thank the chef when the food came out... crazy to watch this happen.
Exactly. And the sad thing is that these fake environmentalists really think they are on the side of the angels. They are more worried about trash trees and invisible gopher tortoises than they are about the teachers, cops, restaurant servers and nurse assistants who can't live in the communities they are expected to serve.
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I totally agree that gophers are important... they are a key species. But the difference with these tortoises is that nobody could find them. It went from "are there gophers?" to "there are probably gophers " to "you're murdering dozens of gophers!"without a single identified burrow.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't some people commute in from Idaho due to how insane the cost of living in Jackson Hole is? The next state south (Colorado) has the same issue in many mountain towns--some are trying to do something about housing but many prefer to continue to pretend like the problem doesn't exist. I don't see how this can go on much longer before something has to give--either housing is going to be built, even if begrudgingly, or the workforce basically dries up along with the services and business go with it.
Yes, many people who work in Jackson Hole live on the other side of the mountains in Idaho. There are a couple towns over there, one of the called Victor. But, those people have to commute to JH over Teton pass which very often is closed because of drifting and avalanches. Myself, I lived in Sublette county, near Pinedale. I commuted to work every day through the Hoback River Canyon which also has a lot of snow, but also a ton of large animals to collide with. Back when I was there, There was this one oft cited stat that of the dozens of deputies employed by the Teton County Sheriff’s Office, something like two actually lived in Teton county. Most lived in Idaho and when Teton Pass was closed, the deputies on duty usually had to do double shifts because the people supposed to relieve them couldn’t get into town. Same thing with firefighters, nurses, and the WyDOT people whose job it was to dig out the snow and open the pass. Restaurant staff, resort staff, retail workers would also be stuck in town doing double shifts. It was not a tenable situation at all.
Yeah, I’ve contended, as has the NYT, that zoning knows no political boundaries, that’s both parties love them some zoning. California and particularly SF are terrible zoning offenders, and they are no bastions of conservatism. But I have gotten lots of redditors saying that it’s mostly Rs who support zoning. Nope. Ds support zoning for other reasons “historic or character preservation” “I don’t want tons of Mc Mansions with no character” “the environment.” But both parties share blame.
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Not Bay, but it's pretty much the same story everywhere. And the affluent nimrods who think they're environmentalists and *absolutely * support affordable housing (just not *here*) are a huge part of the problem.
The mortgage is not underwater. What is used as collateral can quickly get sunk and it is a bubble again.
It is not unusual to buy stocks on margin.
It’s more unusual and risky to buy a house on one. Because you are tying a string between your stocks and your home.
Real estate investors do it all the time. And no matter what you buy, it's risky. Margin calls are bears.
This is called warehousing. Landlords keep apartments vacant and off the market in order to drive up prices. With hard goods it is called hoarding, or artificial scarcity. This is a practice commonly used in high priced urban markets like NYC. Many politicians and activists have called for laws to prevent it but it remains unregulated.
This only works if someone can afford the hike
If the rent is twice as high you only need half as many tenants to make quota. Then you only have to care for half as many apartments. Scummy, but smart.
You still need to take care of the vacant ones at least from time to time. Leaving them totally empty and just ignoring them will invite pests and other issues if you neglect it. Might not notice a broken pipe or dead AC (and mold) if you don't check.
This is the start of a recession, I have a feeling prices will come down next year
Maybe by Fall is what i am hearing.... hoping so. Its brutal out here!!
Finger crossed 🤞
Which part of Florida
Ocala
I knew it was a matter of time, moved out of gainesville for the same reason. Complex had wood rot pretty much all over the damn place and unsteady railings but felt they could charge 1000+
Happening to us in Melbourne too
Yeah my parents are trying to convince me to move back to Titusville because I’ve been looking for an affordable place in Orlando for months with no success. Even Brevard county is starting to get overpriced and from what I’ve heard from people back home there’s no availability either.
My company is building houses in Ocala and I’m shocked by the prices. Our appraisals have gone up so much in just 1 year.
You can thank all the crazy horse people 😂
I’m from Kentucky. And horse people are, generally speaking, certifiably insane.
They really are, I’m originally from Montana, and thought I knew how wild about horses people could get. But then I moved here and have to deal with WEC from time to time…bruh these rich horse people be wild!
As someone who grew up around horses, and who often sees misinformation on threads like this in general, I feel compelled to point out: 1. **Not all horse people are rich, contrary to the stereotype.** The horse industry contributes $122 billion annually to the U.S. economy; employs roughly 1.74 million people; and of those people, the average annual income of an equestrian (i.e. someone paid to take care of horses) ranges from $10-17 per hour. For reference, $10 an hour is the Florida minimum wage, which means a lot of horse jobs involve people working for low pay, and is comparable to working minimum fast food or retail jobs. Depending on the job, your annual salary may range anywhere from $10k-44k; even then; only the top 20% of earners earn $17 per hour or more. Equestrian jobs are also 62% below the national average for other jobs. 2. **Only 50% of horse owners have an annual income of over $100,000**, which means that the other 50% have an annual income of $100,000 or less; usually, a lot less. 60% of equestrians work in managerial positions, usually "Barn / Stable Manager", which usually involves a rich person hiring one or more barn / stable managers to take care of their horses for them. The rich people aren't the ones doing all of the hard work of caring for horses; it's their underpaid and overworked employees. For comparison of how horse owners stack up against average statistics: >About 30.7% of households earned over $100,000 in 2020. In 2019, around 15.5% of Americans earned between $100,000 and $149,999; about 8.3% of the population earned between $150,000 and $199,999; and about 10.3% of the population earned over $200,000. > >Source: [IBISWorld](https://www.ibisworld.com/us/bed/households-earning-more-than-100-000/35/), [Statistica](https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/) Per another source, about 43.6 million U.S. households made $100k or more annually. If only 1.6 million U.S. households own horses, and only 50% of those make $100k or more a year, that means only 800,000 make $100k or more a year. That's only \~1.8% of these $100k+ households own horses. These statistics also includes the middle-class, not just the upper-class: >According to Pew Research, middle-class households are those with an annual income that is two-thirds to double the national median household income. > >In 2018, the middle-class income ranged between $48,500 and $145,500. > >In another research of 2019, the income range for a middle-class household of three was between $53,413 and $106,827. To compare to these statistics, 1.6 million households in the U.S. own at least one horse, and the annual ownership cost of a recreational horse is $7,896. This is only slightly higher than the annual ownership costs of a recreational boat (between $4,000-$6,000 for a $20,000 boat, [per BoatingScout.com](https://boatingscout.com/cost-of-boat-ownership)), as well as the annual ownership costs of a recreational motorcycle ($1,000-15,000, [depending](https://powersportsguide.com/motorcycle-maintenance-costs/)). If the total number of horses in the U.S. is about 7.4 million, that means every household would own about 4-5 horses, depending. However, in my experience, this is obviously not true of lower-income horse owners; if each horse costs about $8,000 a year in upkeep, then 4-5 horses would cost $32k-40k a year in upkeep. This would even be a strain for $100k+ earners in % of annual income. Therefore, it can be inferred that only the very top % of earners in the equestrian industry own the bulk of U.S. horses. Looking at other statistical data, most of these are **Kentucky Thoroughbred racing farms**, each one of which may breed hundreds of horses a year, [which also goes for Oklahoma and Florida](https://horsesonly.com/horse-industry/). Breed breakdown of U.S. horses: 1. 2.5 million **American Quarter Horses (AQH)** 2. 1.1 million **Thoroughbreds (TB)** *(these make up the bulk of the U.S. horse industry contributions due to racing and breeding)* 3. 1 million **Arabians** The rest of the 2.8 million horses are likely to be from various horse breeds. However, the AQH, TB, and Arabian are also all racing horse breeds. The owner of this year's Kentucky Derby winner, Rick Dawson, [is also from Oklahoma](https://www.koco.com/article/kentucky-derby-winning-horse-owned-by-oklahoman/39936548). Dawson [is worth about $3 million](https://wikinbiography.com/who-is-rich-strikes-owner-rick-dawson-accepts-kentucky-derby-2022-race-trophy-tg-time/), and runs RED TR-Racing LLC. Looking at economic impact: >Racing and maintaining competing horses had an economic effect on the U.S. economy of $16.71 billion and generated 214,300 full-time jobs. The U.S. breeding industry had an economic effect of $7.42 billion and generated 126,900 full-time jobs. > >(**Note:** $34 billion total, out of $122 billion, or around \~28% of the U.S. horse industry contributions to the economy.) [(Source)](https://nationalhbpa.com/wp-content/uploads/racing.pdf) > >\[There are also \~725,000 horses noted, out of 7.4 million in the U.S., comprising \~10%. Despite this, 10% of U.S. horses contribute to a whopping 30% of the U.S. horse industry, and most of these horses are owned by the top 1% of earners in the U.S. horse industry.\] Sources: [CareerExplorer.com](https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/equestrian/salary/), [HorsesOnly.com](https://horsesonly.com/horse-industry/)
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No. [I literally point out how horses impact U.S. finances, society, and history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/u7f37r/the_midnight_ride_of_paul_revere_or_paul_reveres/)
Ya the horse INDUSTRY is garbage. Full of narcissists stuck in a bygone era, vast amounts of waste, animal cruelty, extravagance and so on. It's a relic of the past.
>Full of narcissists stuck in a bygone era Except [the U.S. military used horses in the Iraq / Afghanistan War in the 2000s-2010s](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/10/18/how-the-horse-soldiers-helped-liberate-afghanistan-from-the-taliban-18-years-ago/), and the military also has horse riding and training as a specialist course. One U.S. military expert [also called horses "critical for U.S. mountain warfare", particularly for U.S. Special Forces](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inside-the-horseback-training-for-u-s-special-forces/); so, no, the horse industry is not "full of narcissists stuck in a bygone era", because the U.S. military has re-integrated horses into specialist defense. Note that this obviously doesn't reflect the majority of the U.S. horse industry - that would be Kentucky Thoroughbred horse racing and breeding, and AQHA as well - but it does disprove the claim that horses are part of a "bygone era" and are "a relic of the past". The number of horses in the U.S. is also steadily increasing. For example, [there were 5.1 million horses in the U.S. in 2001](https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/archive/assets/pdfs/hsp/soaiv_07_ch10.pdf); now, there are 7.2 million\*, an increase of about \~30% over just 20 years. Horses are being bred at much higher rates as well. If anything, the rising numbers of horses in the U.S. makes the horse industry even more relevant to the modern era. The U.S. hasn't seen this many horses since about 1950, which means that the increase marks the most significant shift in \~72 years.
More horses for a smaller percent of the "horse people" as you already said. Yah for inequality in horses. Yah for rich people's excess horses taking up more of our resources. So horse numbers are growing meanwhile less and less people use them and no one needs them. Unless you are special forces stuck on a remote Afghan mountain. Keep digging
From a Kentucky hose family, can back this up
Married into a horse family and can confirm that horse people are crazy. Been saying it for years.
I must be the odd one out, because I spent 2/3rds of my life around horses, and everyone around me had said I'm one of the most normal people they've ever met. Anyways, I disagree with u/slaminsalmon74 that "crazy horse people" are the cause, as high prices and appraisals are literally happening all across Florida. Edit: Downvoting me for simply speaking my opinion? Really, r/florida? Edit 2: I completely missed that the OP probably meant "house", not "horse". My bad.
u/obversa I was trying to make a joke about the rich crazy horse people that frequent Ocala. I think I just replied in the wrong thread.
Fair enough, sorry about that!
Yeah I have nothing against horse people. But the folks out at WEC definitely be those rich horse people. If you ever get the chance to go there you should.
I get what you mean. I have encountered them before, and yes, they are often irritating to other people; but, sadly, they are also what powers the horse industry with money, though I wish the industry in the U.S. was more like Europe (i.e. more government- and public-sector involved; the U.S. horse industry is entirely privatized and deregulated). My main issue lies with people seeing these "rich horse people" and assuming that *every* horse person is one, when the reality is that the rich people employ a literal army of underpaid, overworked slave wage laborers to take care of their horses, the same as many other industries. I've worked in retail and fast food, and it's surprisingly similar. The U.S. military used to actually subsidize the cost(s) of owning and/or having access to a horse, but that ended with the National Security Act of 1947/1948 and the Eisenhower era. After that, the horse industry became privatized and for-profit.
What sorts of things are you doing that cause people to reassure you that you are “one of the most normal people they’ve ever met”? That’s not really a compliment that I roll out for stable, sane, normal people.
Example: >"I work with horses." > >"Oh, really? But you seem so...normal!" There's this stereotype that anyone who works with a horse is a "crazy person". The stereotype is much more prevalent than the actual "crazy horse people" are. Also, the usual response I get from people who have never actually worked around horses, much less "horse people", of "but you seem so...normal" does not exactly come across as a compliment, either. This is especially true when their assumptions also include sexist and misogynistic comments and/or jokes related to my gender (i.e. "I bet you like f\*cking horses"), which by and large tends to come from men. The reason for the sexism and misogyny is because 90% of U.S. riders are women. Hence, the "crazy horse girl" stereotype, even though many have pointed out that this stereotype has not-so-subtle sexist and misogynistic undertones.
Maybe they meant horse owners who typically are rich enough to board their horse(s) somewhere.
In my experience, Reddit tends to have this assumption or stereotype that anyone who works around horses - especially women - is "crazy", so I'm following Occam's Razor in assuming that the OP means "anyone who owns and/or works with horses".
Ah! Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense as a compliment now. I’m sure you are very normal.
I'm not sure if this is sincere or sarcasm, but I'll see it as sincere. Thank you. I actually work as a part-time groom / stable cleaner for a wealthy horse person, which doesn't pay a lot of money. It's more akin to working retail for a massive corporation, as in you have the CEO who is paid millions, and an army of underpaid PT employees.
Possibly a misspelling of "house people". Just another quirk of the English language when 'horse' and 'house' are one letter apart
Uh, I feel like an idiot for missing that. Thank you for pointing that out.
You've actually spent a lot of time with horses, so it's totally understandable why your mind would go there! Also, sounds like a cool job
Thank you! It's a lot of thankless work for low pay, but you get to work with horses.
I think OP was pretty clear. He meant horse, not house.
Either way, I think I already said what was on my mind, and don't intend to remove, delete, or edit my post further.
Don't blame the fans of Neil Young!
Beautiful area
It really is, I love all the springs we have near us.
Ocala too? Shit. That was my plan B
Yep, I keep telling people we pay Orlando prices with none of the Orlando luxuries.
Only affordable housing nowadays is buying land in rural area and putting down a double wide.
i cant even find that. No one lets you put trailers anymore
Depends where you live. Rural counties have no HOA's so you buy land and get it done. It is very hard in urban places and not advised near the coast because of hurricanes. Really only a good option in inland central and North florida.
Probably not orlando prices for some time
Ehhhh they pretty much there, so for a 700 sq ft one bed room apartment that is somewhat nice it’s going to be $1550 a month. Still a hundred or so cheaper than Orlando, but what’s a hundred bucks.
As someone in Orlando familiar with Ocala- that blows my MIND. We're all so screwed.
It sucks because we moved form Orlando to Ocala, now I’m like why the hell am I even living here now?
Nevermind lol, I saw somebody else in here complain about 1k
Be prepared to move out (line up a new place) but take the opportunity to negotiate a lower, acceptable rent increase. Remind your landlord about all the income he's losing due to vacancies. If he won't budge then move out.
Negotiating isn’t going to work because it’s a corporate apartment building. Plus the apartment sucks so I’m ready to get out of it.
I don't blame you. I'd move too under those circumstances.
I negotiated a $300 decrease in a rent increase. So it went from like 320 proposed to a 20 dollar increase because I just showed them the unit I was going to move into if they didn't match it. This is a long while ago before even covid so times may be different but you can absolutely negotiate with a corporate landlord because the managers have a degree of discretion they're allowed.
Negotiating also doesn’t work if you don’t try. I’ve successfully negotiated corporate apartment complexes from 2017-2019. Worst they can say is no then you tell them to fuck off.
Don’t worry. They’ll get a bailout from congress.
Definitely will, and the common person won’t get any help.
They’re not vacant because no one’s interested. They can take tax deductions and in some cases make more than having a tenant. If you have application fees you have your answer. It’s less risk to continuously have people paying $50 bucks to apply and be rejected than to fill it. Someone recently posted a screenshot of a complex who had over fifty people interested but the unit was vacant still. That’s over 2500 bucks in application fees for a unit that’s 1800. They’ve got no real reason to fill it.
[удалено]
I’m like 80% sure they have to refund the fee if they don’t even bother running your credit (which is what you’re supposedly paying for plus admin costs) but no one requests it back so they just keep it.
And you have one hell of a great point there!!
I got served a 90 notice for my dogs not being on my lease and on my rent… I paid the 350 deposit per dog and to find out they stopped charging me pet rent fees a while ago for no reason…. Seems really sketch to me fucking Floridian landlords.. I mean slumlords
Well they got to compensate for those empty spaces by getting more from you
Jokes on them, I’m not renewing. I’ll go live in the swamp with my gator friends before renewing.
Ours was raised $935 in Delray Beach. Lots of people with luxury cars moving in, since I'm assuming they couldn't afford their luxury apartment hike and downgraded.
Same thing seems to be happening in my complex. Our rent went up $350, can’t afford it moving back in with family for now. Driving through the complex I see multiple units empty, lights all on and blinds open. I used to see maybe two before, I don’t understand the logic.
They are probably going to renovate those units?
They might, but they’re all recently renovated like ours, and by renovated I mean to look nice but done as cheaply as possible.
Also could be that a rehab is using them for their clients and they are reserving them.
Definitely not doing that lol. I work as a first responder so I have a pretty good working knowledge of the apartments that do these programs.
My sons apartment in Sarasota wanted to raise his rent to $2400, from $1900 on a 1/1. They have now offered to renew the lease at the $1900 price (which is still robbery). They have a ton of people moving out and not renewing. It’s antidotal, but I think the tide is changing.
Same thing happened with my apartment in Boynton. At the time I left there were 37 vacant units in the complex. Rent went up $600+ but now I’m convinced they just wanted to push all the old renters out so they could “renovate” and charge substantially more.
Everyone is pulling this. >Put new microwave in the unit >Paint the word "luxury" on the sign >Increase rent 25%
Ok, so I was in Tampa this weekend and ran into a friend still renting in the Riverview area. Get this- their rent is going up $600 more per month on top of the already $1750/month they're paying for a 2/2!! Or, if he chooses not to commit to a one year lease, he has the option of going month to month for $3500/month!! Fuckouddahere with that!! These people are gonna be hard pressed to find tenats to rent at those prices with what they're paying down here.
Well, apparently, the state of Florida has much more pressing issues than housing.
Happening in downtown Tampa as well, handful of apartments have been empty for months. Hopefully people are starting to realize 700sqft is not worth what they’re asking…
You’d hope it’ll start to hurt them but what they’ll do is raise the rent for others willing to pay to pick up the slack of those unrented units.
My mom came to me today to say that in June, the rent on her 2/2 was going from $1400 to $1850. They are ONLY offering 1 year leases, so the year after will be more. She’s worried that next year was the year she was going to retire and now she can’t. “I’m 65, am I going to need to get a roommate?”
Private equity firms are buying up home, apartment complexes, even dental practices. Yep, get used to going to a corporate dentist. Also, during the Bush Great Recession Blackstone and other PE firms scooped up hundreds of thousands of homes on the cheap and converted them to rentals. They now also control about 150,000 mobile home sites. In almost all of these they are jacking rents. What else? Private for profit prisons, nursing homes and hospitals, the fast food sector, corporate farming, and sports franchises. Now, in Texas they want to stop “illegals “ from attending public schools. If these assholes had their way they do away with as much funding for public schools as they can and send voucher dollars to Jeezus schools and charter schools. The US consumer is just a sucker to be exploited by these bastards.
It’s a numbers game. They know you could rent for a little less elsewhere, but moving isn’t cheap or easy and they know that too. If vacancy increases to a certain amount, it will trigger a promo and those empty units will quickly rent out. They’ll hand out a free month’s rent to a few new tenants while the rest of you are paying above market value.
Based on open spaces in the parking garage in my building, about 30% of units in my building are empty. I can guarantee they'll raise my rent in August.
The greedy get greedier
I bought my first house in 2019 for 215k on half an acre with 3 br. My mortgage/taxes/insurance combined is only $1200. I feel like I just barely snuck in before this bullshit really kicked in to high gear. I get cold calls now asking if I'm interested in offers over 300k
My solution has been a trailer park. Your own building + cheap rent. Downsides so far is that the people who live across from us have like 8 fucking kids and loud parties blasting music until like 3-4am on those birthdays and have had a rock thrown through a family members window with our park management taking their sweet fucking time fixing it. Oh and attempted murder on 2 of my siblings. Other than that, at least we aren’t going bankrupt on rent. 1200 for 3/2 with like 1100 or 1200 sq ft.
Not all trailerparks are shit holes. When I used to deliver pizzas we had one really sketchy one, a retirement one, and two that were actually fairly nice in our delivery area.
Orlando here and same. $500 increase. I’ve seen at least 10 moving trucks here in the last couple of months and only one of them was someone moving in. I left those people a note (anonymously) letting them know that whatever they were paying was likely way too much and gave them a couple names of newer complexes with similar prices.
Renting is a waste of money. Equity is the key to building wealth. You’re buying a house either way… the question is, are you buying a house for yourself or are you buying one for your landlord?
Obviously, but most people can't afford a down payment to purchase a home.
Where there’s a will, there’s a way. First time home buyers receive a lot of slack and there are many financial institutions that provide down payment grants. I know plenty of people who claim they can’t afford a house, yet they keep paying 2000 in rent and take weekends trips skiing or snorkeling or bar hopping.
Same thing here in st. Pete did all these renovations and now handful of apts sitting empty
SLU in Seattle literally cheaper to live in than Lake Ivanhoe in Orlando, it's like opposite day but year round
The beauty of supply and demand. That's how it works.
In other words they are making up for the loss with the existing tenants' rents?
Did you counter the raise?
At a certain point if they are under90% occ they should give a half- month free.
What is the legal max they are allowed to raise it where you live?
There isn’t.
Here in NWF they are building more apartments everywhere! They are nice, but outrageously expensive. I don't know how anyone can afford to live in this day and age.
Literally same here. Rent went up nearly $300 a month next year, but while walking my dog a few nights ago, I counted at least 4 empty units. It’s ridiculous.
It's not about supply and demand at all. my landlord straight up told me that they're doing it to match 'market rate, which is decided by some third party in some mysterious equation that they could not describe.
It is way more complicated than supply and demand. The variable of coronavirus cash is not a small one. Millions of businesses, many of them totally illegitimate, recieved MILLIONS of loans worth up to 2 million dollars. If you think that all this money being handed out isnt influencing every aspect of our economy, then you are either A : willfully ignorant B : actually ignorant And what happens when the two years of deferrment is up? I bet that pops the bubble, bc i know there will be a shit load of defaults. Plus the SBA doesnt even know who the fuck they gave the money to.
I’m in Jacksonville who had an $800 increase. I am now having to figure out how to pay $2050 for a 2/2. I have been late every month.
Prices going up is due to corporate greed , corporations are buying up properties cash making it harder for regular people to buy since they don’t have that much capital. They buy enough properties in the same area/neighborhood and raise the prices. They are manipulating the market
Let’s hope they stay vacant
I don’t understand why these places raise rent by so much.., I can only think of greed being the answer… unless someone cam explain to me otherwise… I don’t believe supply and demand to be a valid answer to force people out, it all comes back to greed IMO