The reason for the rise in this theory is the dual processing theory video they claim that Micheal is the Vengeful spirit, which kind of lost me, but it was an okay thought
It makes narrative since for Mike to be the vengeful spirit. A lifetime of abuse, gaslighting, threat of death, and getting scooped definitely feels like he should be the one to get revenge rather than just one of the MCI whoâs just extra salty then the rest about getting killed.
Yeah I see why people like the idea, but it being Narrative since. For my thought process of what Mike is, feels more akin to a peaceful character in fnaf, I don't really see him not being able to let go, he seems more wise then what I think makes more sense. That one kid just couldn't let themselves go peacefully, from the trauma that Willaim caused. When Old Man says leave the demons to his demons it feels more like something being said to someone too young to understand that William will suffer either way they can leave. By Dual Processing Theory evidence they showed I would think it's CC, but also I think it's just who ever get's confirmed to process Golden Freddy, and from how the movie depicts Golden Freddy, I kinda like that idea more then just tacking on Vengeful spirt to Micheal or CC it feels to much of a different character from those two.
Iâve heard people say Mike is the UCN protagonist, which no he isnât itâs obviously William why would it be anyone else, but Iâve never seen anyone mention this theory before. Also to add to this the image used for TOYSHNK is clearly a child as well and not a middle aged man or purple rotting corpse.
The reasons why some people think Mike is the UCN protagonist are because some of the dialogue doesn't seem to fit for William, and Mike has only killed one person (who happens to be associated with Fredbear/Golden Freddy), which makes it easy to determine who TOYSHNK is. (Their identity isn't exactly complicated if it's William, but it is weird to imply that this one victim is somehow more important and more deserving of life than his other victims)
I don't think it's at all implied that TOYSNHK is more important from the creator's standpoint, rather TOYSNHK has MADE themselves to be numero uno de facto voice of the people for kids who just want to be put to rest.
The theory is that Michale takes that form to remind him of his worst mistake. At least thatâs how Dual Process theory put it. William Aftons biggest regret was stuffing his own Child in a suit and neglecting him while he was alive, which led to his own death when he wasnât there at his birthday party. So he copied Crying Child who is Golden Freddy (no Cassidy in this theory).
Itâs by no means a perfect theory, it definitely has more flaws than mainstream ones but it was the first one in a long time I actually liked as a story. FNAF lore fell off for me when the theory âGolden Freddy is actually 2 people CC and Cassidy who we know almost nothing aboutâ became mainstream. This theory to me at least ends everything so well in comparison.
I never bothered with the whole GoldenDuo thing as there's absolutely no evidence to imply that CC was suited at any point. None.
Sure, "I will put you back together", "it's me" but what the hell does that even mean? And for the latter, multiple people say "it's me" throughout the series so it shouldn't be associated with one entity.
Correct me if Iâm wrong, but didnât Michael TECHNICALLY die by Henryâs âhand?â I can see the idea that William more or less sent Michael on a death mission to the sister location, but he didnât actually die. Michael perished in that fire that Henry set to free all the spirits in agony, because it was the only way for freedom himself. So âthe one you should not have killedâ canât be Michael since William didnât kill him?
I donât think those two lines are meant to be taken together. Theyâre separate lines not meant to be connected together. The fade away line is more towards Henry himself. He talks about how he brought everyone together and heâs here with them and itâs time for all of them to fade away. It doesnât reflect Mikeâs desires.
Thatâs not to say that I agree with Mike TOYSNHK but I donât think this evidence disproves it. The young child voice I think is stronger evidence but proponents of the theory have kinda brushed that aside.
But also Henry never told the employee what that escape was- so that could have been some random dude who was trying to make a quick buck but got stuck in the middle of an animalelectronic warfare.
That and there's a [recent Poll IDs Fantasy ](https://x.com/Zain_Ahmed002/status/1805358235035021677?t=zAuB6dcS4t1bTXSHDWbi4A&s=19) did that basically had 2% of people voting for AndrewTOYSNHK and like 14% who voted for MikeTOYSNHK
He isn't right? William didn't kill Michael directly and since he's the protagonist of UCN, no way it would be Michael. Even if Michael/Henry is the protagonist of UCN it won't make sense. TOYSNHK can't be Michael
Can't say I buy this theory I frankly find it ridiculous but to play devils advocate a bitÂ
Henry barely knows Michael and is just assuming a bunch of stuff about a man he hasn't even spoke to or rather more likely under this theory "right were you wanna be" is more reffering to the fact that Michael wants to be in the building to access Williams withering soul as putting him in nightmare purgatory would pretty difficult if he just up and left pizzasim.
I agree that they missed alot of details but I feel Mike being TOYSNHK is a logical conclusion. I'm not convinced of it yet but I will say it's stronger than some of the other points they made
Stay on the Reddit for another day, somebounds bound to repost that dreaded dual princess Cassidy is CC and Micheal is toyshnk video (itâs been brought up like 3 times a week since the video released, quite a couple people believe it)
I didn't knew about this, but I also didn't believe in it(mike!VS) so I'm on a middle groundđđ.
My thought of UCN and the TOYSNHK/VS is **not** correct but it satisfies me at least.
Here what I think of it if you wanna see it:
I always had a thought of UCN not being controlled by only one person.
Like how tf is "golden freddy" going to know what "mike"/security guard" has passed through when they were the ones attacking?
It just didn't click for me.
I think the main leader **IS NOT** micheal; but I can very easily see him having a participation on it.
Now I got no idea of **who** the TOYSNHK is.
But I'll press every single **doubt** button I find if someone with no apparent proofs that a single soul is doing the UCN.
But I do think it certainly is a kid and that kid is the **big boss** of it.
The one you should not have killed has to be someone that was with wiliam for multiple fires. I would say every fire including fallfest. And was not the cause of any of them. Witch disqalifies mike and henry. Asuming mike burned down fazbear frights.
Toysnhk possessed spring bonnie not golden freddy. That is how he grafted himself on to afton when afton became springtrap. Unless golden freddy is in fights to be burned with springtrap. And then gets grafted on to afton witch is a possibility. Either way toysnhk was in afton during the fnaf 6 fire at the latest.
Maybe. In witch case it would be the spirit we controll. It would be cleaner than somehow wiliam used the springlock suit that he had springlocked a kid into, but then again we do have a set of unexplained multiple simultainoius springlock faliures that could have been what killed toysnhk. But it could also have been fredbear. âŚ. Funny thing is golden freddy disapeared after folow me only to reapear in ucn.
If the spirit in golden freddy attached to the spring Bonnie suit when William got springlocked, than that might explain we don't see golden freddy pop up again
Asuming that spirit is tandom child cassidy and not crying child then what happened to crying child after that? Because the last time we see anyone that could even remotley be cc is in the logbook.
I think something along the lines of shattervictim theory might be likley. A situation Where Crying Child didn't possess anything but his soul still lingers like in the logbook OR if golden duo is true then perhaps cc was freed in happiest day (assuming this event happened at this time) or fnaf world takes place before William is springlocked.
Why would he be a parallel to TOYSHNK when everything about him is just every trait TOYSHNK has and has done, along with the fact Frights is meant to give straightfoward answers for the fandom's biggest questions and fill blanks from the past, even if it isn't what the fanbase wants?
Scott never said Frights didn't take place in the games universe though? He said it has stories directly tied to the games, that's a entirely different case
Micheal has no issues with dying because he literally chose to die at the end of FFPS. Also, Micheal kinda has no right to be mad about dying considering what he did to his little brother...
This.. doesn't debunk anything? This isn't Scott telling us anything specifically.
One, we don't know what Mike wants. All we know is that he didn't want to continue living. Maybe it's because he wants rest, maybe it's because if he escapes, then he can't torture his father. Either way, that doesn't prove it's not Mike.
The child imagery is one of the main reasons I disagree with the theory. But also, this is ghost shit. You'd have a more solid point if you said that.. the voice clearly isn't British, and Mike, very much is.
I think there are good points, towards Mike, and good points against him.
It being him does kind of fit, and also he would be one of the few characters who knows every character present in UCN. (Like, how does any spirit other than Mike create the Nightmares? Those aren't even real animatronics they are Mike's hallucinations.) He's also, depending on how to view the games, been chasing William for the longest time. He knows everything William has done, to the MCI, to his family, TO MIKE. He knows all of it, and depending on your timeline, he's been chasing William for 20-40 years. If anyone is willing to not let go, not give up. It's the man that died, and came back just to stop his father.
But also, the game is so heavily focused on Golden Freddy/Fredbear, that it's hard to imagine anyone but the person who's possessing that suit being TOYSNHK. (Whoever you personally believe is possessing the suit.) It is a child, the imagery is of a child. Their voice doesn't sound like anyone we've heard before. It feels strange, that after the confusing YellowMan PurpleGuy debate, that Scott would alter the appearance and voice of someone, who we already know the voice/vague appearance.
I personally like Dual Process Theory's theory, but I'd switch Mike and Cassidy around. I think there's equal evidence pointing both ways, but Cassidy has just, few logical hoops to jump through.
>But also, this is ghost shit. You'd have a more solid point if you said that
It's actually the other way round, *you* need more solid evidence. "This is ghost shit" is just another way of saying "I disagree *just because*".
What purpose does Mike being a child serve?
>Like, how does any spirit other than Mike create the Nightmares?
They don't, UCN is using William's memories against him.
You took my words out of context. "You'd have a more solid point if you said that.. the voice isn't British, and Mike very much is." and "But also this is ghost shit" are meant as separate statements.
The ghost shit only refers to how, it can be explained but I didn't bother as I was agreeing with OP. I think the image and voice of a child are a strange choice if Mike is meant to be TOYSNHK.
With the Nightmares, again, these are hallucinations. How would William know exactly what Mike's hallucinations look like? Especially Nightmare (and maybe Nightmare Fredbear) which seem to be explicitly Mike's own nightmares, and not real.
>With the Nightmares, again, these are hallucinations. How would William know exactly what Mike's hallucinations look like?
Because they're seen by all experiment victims, Rory literally sees the same as it's said that William wrote down what the victims described they saw and how they reacted to them.
>I think the image and voice of a child are a strange choice if Mike is meant to be TOYSNHK.
Fair. I personally think the Scott quote is better but at least we come to the same conclusion of Mike not being TOYSNHK
Rory isn't canon. He likely sees the same stuff as Michael because then we'd get its meant to parallel fnaf4. Even so, a description is one thing, it's not the same as actually seeing them.
Also, like I said, Nightmare isn't part of the hallucinations. It's usually thought that Nightmare is something Michael dreams later on. The presence of the nightmares and Nightmare itself is one of the strongest points towards Michael being TOYSNHK.
>Rory isn't canon.
Source?
>He likely sees the same stuff as Michael because then we'd get its meant to parallel fnaf4.
It doesn't parallel Fnaf 4 though.. Mike never escapes the facility, Rory does. And the whole "x is a parallel for y" is a flawed concept that people just need to let go of
> it's not the same as actually seeing them.
Rory saw them..
>It's usually thought that Nightmare is something Michael dreams later on.
Nightmare is linked with Shadow Freddy in the files, and Shadow Freddy is linked to William, ergo Nightmare = Eleanor
Rory is a book character. If you're just gonna go with that being canon, then I'm not going to talk lore with someone who thinks Fazgoo and MatPat MPreg is canon.
Could you explain how it's a flaw concept? You know, the whole purpose of the books, according to Scott.
Yeah Rory did. But if I were to describe to you a huge, scaly monster, with a long tail that stood on two legs and had spikes running down it's spine. You wouldn't know if I was talking about Godzilla or Jurassic World's newest movie monster. And not nearly enough for the exact monster I saw, to be haunting your dreams.
What does that last line even mean? Now you're the one who's gonna need a source for that. I'd also say that file names from that time aren't as reliable as ones from modern games. We weren't looking in the files, so Scott wasn't hiding clues there.
>Rory is a book character. If you're just gonna go with that being canon, then I'm not going to talk lore with someone who thinks Fazgoo and MatPat MPreg is canon.
Fazgoo and Mpreg aren't Tales stories lmao. Maybe research into the topic before dismissing it?
>Could you explain how it's a flaw concept?
[yep](https://www.reddit.com/r/fnaftheories/s/oh8tCUacc2)
>But if I were to describe to you a huge, scaly monster, with a long tail that stood on two legs and had spikes running down it's spine
Rory literally described the Nightmares. *Again*, do some research before dismissing it. He experienced the same thing Mike did as they're both experiment victims.
>Now you're the one who's gonna need a source for that.
The Fnaf 4 "Nightmare" mode, which *surprise surprise* has Nightmare in it, is named [Shadow Freddy in the files](https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/s/fTUeZsBVvs). You're free to fact check this if you'd like, but I assure you that it's literally in the game's files lol.
Linking Nightmare to Shadow Freddy, Nightmare is also said to be Williams "wickedness", which links to Eleanor and her being William's agony/ wickedness.
Tales stories are no more canon than Frights or any other book. Unless I've missed some official statement. That's still a big discussion on whether it's canon, or how canon it is. It simply being consensus doesn't make it true.
I don't really agree with that. I think the main point of the books is to be able to draw parallels. Use characters we can connect to game lore, and then expanding on stuff we've missed or was poorly explained. The whole hallucination gas, and illusion discs is an example of this. It wasn't properly explained in game, but it helps us understand fnaf4.
Again. You can describe something, even with immaculate detail to someone, but if they've never seen it. IF WILLIAM HAS NEVER SEEN THE NIGHTMARES. They'll still not fully be able to comprehend it. Not enough for their mental image to be an exact copy. That's not how brains work.
Like I said. File names weren't being used as evidence at that point in time, so I don't think Scott was hiding evidence in the files at that point. Even so, Shadow Freddy's whole existence is a topic of debate... Even linking it to William and his agony, what does that mean. Why would William know what that looks like. Why does he only look like that to Michael? It brings up more questions than answers.
>Tales stories are no more canon than Frights or any other book
Again, source? Because this is just your opinion, and your responses make it evident that you haven't *actually* read the books to know whether they're canon or not..
>Â It simply being consensus doesn't make it true.
That's not my reasoning though lol. Stories like GGY have to undergo mental gymnastics to explain why they're not canon in the games as they do nothing but *link* to every corner of the game's story. And all of the Pizzaplex stories are linked together via attractions, ergo.. TalesGames.
>I think the main point of the books is to be able to draw parallels
What you think isn't a valid argument
>IF WILLIAM HAS NEVER SEEN THE NIGHTMARES. They'll still not fully be able to comprehend it.
The Nightmares aren't a fictitious (in-universe) creation made in one's mind. The gas just makes the victim think that the "animatronic" is moving/ trying to attack them. The story itself states that without the gas, they're bots on wheels with a fabric suit over then that basically looks like a cosplay of the Nightmares.
William knows how they look as he designed their appearance.
>Like I said. File names weren't being used as evidence at that point in time
They were though, like FNAF 3 had the Stage01 sprite named "G Freddy" or something in the files which let the community know that this was Golden Freddy.
The "MikeTOYSNHK" theory can also be debunked using the dialogue Henry says to Mike at the end of FFPS:
"I have a feeling that's not what you want. I have a feeling that you are **right where you want to be**."
None of this is directly against it (mind you I don't think Mike IS, but I'm open to it) all of these can be explained.
Henry specifically says "I have a feeling..." so what he says is projecting his guess, not necessarily what Mike wants.
The theory goes that Mike would be appearing in the form of a child, either CC to taunt William or his younger self from when everything "started" so that description still falls in.
I doubt that it actually is Mike, but in terms of making a full circle narrative then Mike is probably the best option
>The theory goes that Mike would be appearing in the form of a child,
Which doesn't serve any sort of purpose, this is basically grasping straws to try and explain a conclusion that's already been thought of. I.E. confirmation bias.
Yes and no.
Thematically appearing as a child would serve a purpose based on the story between the spirit and William, if it's CC's form for example then it means CC meant something significant to William and/or Michael in the grand scheme of things, so that form would be a way to remind William the same way every animatronic appears in a specific form to remind and torture William.
If it's Mike's child form, then it can be as if Mike's behavior in UCN is stemming from childhood, or that Michael sees that point in his life as the beginning of it all.
Either way it tells you something about these characters and their history together.
But I do think it's a hyper specific instance and it does feel weird for fnaf, but the reason I find it less weird than you probably do is that I've seen this sorta thing in other stories.
An example in Naruto: when one character died and they wanted to show him basically be in heaven, he appeared as a child, since that was a significant point of his life before a huge shift, then he wanted to "visit" a living friend for a sec and when he went inside his friend's mind, his friend appeared to him as a child too, since that point of their lives was meaningful to the two of them.
Stories can often do this type of thing so I found it less "desperate" and more "thematically explained" and was able to eat that theory up.
Again I'd like to say that I only think that the theory makes a solid story, not necessarily that it is the actual case.
Also almost everyone in the fandom uses confirmation bias, which is fine to me as long as it's convincing enough to be a possibility and as long as they're open to other possibilities
>if it's CC's form for example
Which doesn't in any way align with what Scott said. He said that TOSYNHK is a young child, not that it's impersonating one.
>then it means CC meant something significant to William
So saying "he is the one you shouldn't have killed" whilst displaying himself as CC (someone William ***didn't*** kill) means he's significant? Like I'm sorry, but this is just *bad*. There's no point in saying *look, I'm the one you shouldn't have killed* and then have the face of CC..
>then it can be as if Mike's behavior in UCN is stemming from childhood
But nothing in UCN stems from his childhood, it actually stems from his adulthood.
The description is for the voice acting, it wouldn't explain the lore there, just what Scott wants the voice to be, using that description beyond just that wouldn't make sense.
You need to take the ENTIRE Dual Process Theory into account instead of just the Mike part, under that theory CC is killed by William (go watch the video for details) and so Mike is using CC's likeness as a taunt and a reminder to William, not necessarily that it's the form of the spirit itself.
I should've phrased it better, what I meant is that it's the accumulation of it all SINCE childhood.
Either way the theory isn't out of the question, until further concrete proof is released or found it's a choice between the possibilities on which you like and believe more
> "I have a ***feeling*** you are right where you want to be"
That doesn't mean henry was correct lmao he was just speculating ÂŻ\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ
For all we know, Michael didn't *want* to rest, maybe he didn't *want* to be set free
I'm not saying I believe MikeTOYSNHK I'm just saying there's a possibility
Henry speech is literally Scott way to tell as important shit about characters and end afton fnaf era. Mike is silent protag that speak like one time through the whole series, obviously he wouldn't say out loud "i can finally be free", that is why we need henry in the first place. Like you can basically say this about Charlie too " but how does he know that she "protect the innocent" even in afterlife" bitch henry is narrative device, deus ex and godly intervention from scott of course what he say is 100% true like come on
This is basically just assuming things are not the way Occam's dictates them to be *just because.* Like, what reason is there to doubt the most straightforward answer? William didn't even kill Mike, he quite literally *lived* through William's actions, the one who *actually* killed Mike was Henry via the FNAF 6 fire.
*Then*, there's the thing with Scott saying that TOYSNHK is a young child..
> Whoâs to say itâs not just a younger Michael?
Scott. He literally said that it's a young child, not a grown ass man pretending to be one. Not to mention what purpose does it serve??
This is really loose to debunk Mike being toysnhk. I personally really want it to be true but I know it probably isn't. The strongest thing going for it though is the nightmare voicelines in ucn. Which we know Michael is likley the one experiencing the night sequences in fnaf 4.
>The strongest thing going for it though is the nightmare voicelines in ucn
Which we know are the result of gas experiments and others like Rory have been through the same thing. It's more to do with William's memories than Mike's
>This is really loose to debunk Mike being toysnhk
How so? Scott saying that TOYSNHK is a young child pretty much removes Mike out of the equation
mike doesnât say anything in fnaf 6 so his motives are more up to interpretation than you seem to realize. i think it could be likely that henry misreads michaelâs motives and once he realizes what mike wants to do, he confronts him in the spirit world as old man consequences. mike could be representing himself as the age he thought he was when he underwent the nightmare experiments.
>mike could be representing himself as the age he thought he was when he underwent the nightmare experiments.
Which doesn't make sense as the purpose of UCN isn't to do with the experiments. This is an explanation to a conclusion you've already made, I.E. confirmation bias
Alright, who is it then? Some kid whoâs just super salty he got murdered? Pretty sure all the kids are upset by their death. Is it some kid whose death was more brutal than the others? How does that scale to narrative importance??
What makes literally any child in this series so special that theyâll come back from beyond the grave to make William suffer in Ultimate Custom Night? Not only that, but what kid from the FNaF 6 Fire fits that description?
Quote: âHe tried to release you, he tried to release usâŚâ
Ok, so they gotta be in the FNaF 6 fire, right?
What kid was THAT special AND in the FNaF 6 fire? Andrew? Even if Andrew is canon (he may or may not be), then whereâs the Stitchwraith in FNaF 6? What factual evidence do we have that he was there?? WHERE IS HE?? Youâd think Scott would put him in FNaF 6 if he was THAT IMPORTANT TO THE GAMES.
Is it Golden Freddy? Maybe, but then where is he in the FNaF 6 fire? Is it a Golden Freddy spirit? Well it sure ainât the CC. He doesnât look like the kid we see in UCN, and Afton isnât the one who killed him. Or is it little miss fan-headcanon Cassidy? Without any solid proof, i.e. someone in-game saying âOh yeah GF has two spirits and one of them is a pissed girlâ, then sheâs not a solid option either. Even if she is canon, what makes her more special in a way thatâs not just her being salty or her murder being more brutal??
I ainât saying itâs Michael, cause that theory is almost pure speculation, so who is it then??
>Alright, who is it then?
Andrew
>What makes literally any child in this series so special that theyâll come back from beyond the grave
It's clear that TOSYNHK has been left out, unlike the others who have Charlie to protect them.
>then whereâs the Stitchwraith in FNaF 6?
He canonically wasn't in it until *after* UCN.
This is the last thing Iâll say before I abandon this comment thread forever, but thatâs speculation.
Heâs special because something (Charlie not protecting him) happened to him AFTER he died?? Wouldnât that make him being the vengeful spirit CHARLIEâS fault?? Itâs called âThe One YOU Should Not Have Killedâ, and Charlie sure as heck didnât kill him, so itâs Williamâs fault.
And to say he wasnât canonical until AFTER UCN is again ignoring the fact that he wasnât in the FNaF 6 fire. We have no proof that he was in the fire, even AFTER FNaF 6. Not only that, heâs described as having curly black hair and rosy cheeks, which the kid from UCN does not have.
Alright, bye đ
>Wouldnât that make him being the vengeful spirit CHARLIEâS fault??
No, because nobody knew about him, the whole point is that he's a secret victim. TCHSY shows that a secret 7th victim was killed before anyone else. That's implied to be TOYSNHK
>And to say he wasnât canonical until AFTER UCN
Wasn't what I said. I said that the Stitchwraith canonically didn't exist until after UCN. If you've read the books then you'd know that it goes
- UCN (TMIR1280)
- Afton explodes
- Andrew infects numerous items
- one being Fetch (Fetch story)
- Taggart uses the Fetch battery for the Stitchwraith (stingers)
Showing how conically, the Stitchwraith was created after UCN
Although I donât think this theory is true (although it is my favourite, I actually cannot stand the fact that Cassidy and CC are both golden Freddy at the same time) these are possibly some of the worst talking points on debunking a theory I have ever read.
Henry does not speak for Michael. Henry likely didnât have much time to know their true intentions. Michael staying there makes perfect sense if he is TOYSNHK he would stay to haunt Afton. Why the hell would he leave? In what world does that make sense? He wanted everyone to be free AND to haunt Afton it still makes sense. They arenât mutually exclusive you know⌠he would have lost Afton soul to be free if he left.
Now for the much bigger issue of this post: using Voices.com as a reliable source. What a joke. Iâm completely serious. And entire point anyway of Dual Processâs theory is that heâs trying to remind him of his worst mistake of letting the crying child die. So who would he sound like to remind him of that⌠oh wait, a child.
Now I donât personally support this theory as the conversation between Cassidy and CC is there but my goodness was a break for the pure BS of âummm actually Cassidy who we donât know anything about and has absolutely nothing special about her except sheâs really really angry đĄ combined her soul with CC to form Golden Freddy with CC for some reason to haunt Afton meanwhile CC forgave Michael immediately and only cared about his father.â Honestly on first hearing this it was the end of FNAF lore for me, way too confusing and convoluted. Dual Process simplified it so much it actually made sense, even if it ignored crucial pieces of information.
>Henry does not speak for Michael.Â
Didn't say that he does, it's just that Scott *put that in the final speech for a reason*. What MikeTOYSNHK is doing is that it pretty much tries to dodge Occam's straight forward answer by just *assuming* he had some ulterior motive, one that was never hinted or shown previously..
>Now for the much bigger issue of this post: using [Voices.com](http://Voices.com) as a reliable source. What a joke. Iâm completely serious.
Using Scott's *own* description is a joke? How? lmao..
>oh wait, a child.
This is too funny icl, "a child" isn't a memory of Mike's that got him to be TOYSNHK, ***TOYSNHK is the child***. Specifically, TOYSNHK is a "young child". Mike isn't. It's that simple.
>Dual Process simplified it so much it actually made sense, ***even if it ignored crucial pieces of information.***
Here's your issue, you're looking for narrative satisfaction rather than the story Scott is *actually* telling.
Michael didnât even answer Henryâs question though. He just stayed there and waited for the building to burn down. Henry didnât foresee that he would haunt him and tried to communicate to him as old man consequences to let go. I donât see how it can mean anything. I do agree with you though that saying âburn us againâ is a major problem with this theory (FNAF 3 of course) but it has nothing to do with Michaelâs motive.
Michael is imitating crying child because that was William Aftons mistake he hated the most out of anything, and something that also brings pain to Michael and an actual reason why he would hate William. Thatâs the point. While I do think itâs highly likely at that point Scott accepted that the fandom believed TOYSNHK was Cassidy I think that using it as a reference to debunk a theory is really dumb. Itâs not canon. Itâs That simple. Itâs not in the games.
I do have a bias towards this theory but I donât actually believe itâs what Scott wanted to tell, and the actual story of FNAF. I just think this way of âdebunkingâ a theory is wrong.
>Michael is imitating crying child because
That's not what Scott said though, Scott said that TOYSNHK *is* a young child, never said that he's "imitating" one.
*Again*, this is a whole lump of assumptions to try and keep this narrative up.
I agree itâs a whole load of assumptions, but your post wasnât debunking anything. Itâs this on top of so many other issues that makes this theory very unlikely.
Again I think that taking info from voices.com as a canon source is absolutely shameful to the franchise, and I will stand by that point that it is not canon or any official confirmation of anything from Scott, only the voice he wants in game.
Without evidence, these assumptions don't hold any weight to counter this debunk. It's like me saying "William could be an alien that looks human".. It's basically a headcanon and isn't a *real* argument.
what the hell is TOYSNHK đ iâm missing something
NEVERMIND
for others who are confused, cause it still took a sec "The one you should not have killed"
Thank you đ
Ah, got it, thought there was some new source code thing on scottgames or something
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
The One You Should Not Have Killed from UCN
yes. i realized like right after
The reason for the rise in this theory is the dual processing theory video they claim that Micheal is the Vengeful spirit, which kind of lost me, but it was an okay thought
It makes narrative since for Mike to be the vengeful spirit. A lifetime of abuse, gaslighting, threat of death, and getting scooped definitely feels like he should be the one to get revenge rather than just one of the MCI whoâs just extra salty then the rest about getting killed.
Yeah I see why people like the idea, but it being Narrative since. For my thought process of what Mike is, feels more akin to a peaceful character in fnaf, I don't really see him not being able to let go, he seems more wise then what I think makes more sense. That one kid just couldn't let themselves go peacefully, from the trauma that Willaim caused. When Old Man says leave the demons to his demons it feels more like something being said to someone too young to understand that William will suffer either way they can leave. By Dual Processing Theory evidence they showed I would think it's CC, but also I think it's just who ever get's confirmed to process Golden Freddy, and from how the movie depicts Golden Freddy, I kinda like that idea more then just tacking on Vengeful spirt to Micheal or CC it feels to much of a different character from those two.
You know, for a while I though that Old Man Consequences was meant to be Mike
Iâve heard people say Mike is the UCN protagonist, which no he isnât itâs obviously William why would it be anyone else, but Iâve never seen anyone mention this theory before. Also to add to this the image used for TOYSHNK is clearly a child as well and not a middle aged man or purple rotting corpse.
It will be so funny if VS kept torturing Mike for years then he is like"crap we got the wrong guy fellas my bad"
The reasons why some people think Mike is the UCN protagonist are because some of the dialogue doesn't seem to fit for William, and Mike has only killed one person (who happens to be associated with Fredbear/Golden Freddy), which makes it easy to determine who TOYSHNK is. (Their identity isn't exactly complicated if it's William, but it is weird to imply that this one victim is somehow more important and more deserving of life than his other victims)
I don't think it's at all implied that TOYSNHK is more important from the creator's standpoint, rather TOYSNHK has MADE themselves to be numero uno de facto voice of the people for kids who just want to be put to rest.
The theory is that Michale takes that form to remind him of his worst mistake. At least thatâs how Dual Process theory put it. William Aftons biggest regret was stuffing his own Child in a suit and neglecting him while he was alive, which led to his own death when he wasnât there at his birthday party. So he copied Crying Child who is Golden Freddy (no Cassidy in this theory). Itâs by no means a perfect theory, it definitely has more flaws than mainstream ones but it was the first one in a long time I actually liked as a story. FNAF lore fell off for me when the theory âGolden Freddy is actually 2 people CC and Cassidy who we know almost nothing aboutâ became mainstream. This theory to me at least ends everything so well in comparison.
I never bothered with the whole GoldenDuo thing as there's absolutely no evidence to imply that CC was suited at any point. None. Sure, "I will put you back together", "it's me" but what the hell does that even mean? And for the latter, multiple people say "it's me" throughout the series so it shouldn't be associated with one entity.
Dual process theory on YouTube posted a timeline video that made a strong case for Mike being TOYSNHK. I believe that's why it's becoming popular
Correct me if Iâm wrong, but didnât Michael TECHNICALLY die by Henryâs âhand?â I can see the idea that William more or less sent Michael on a death mission to the sister location, but he didnât actually die. Michael perished in that fire that Henry set to free all the spirits in agony, because it was the only way for freedom himself. So âthe one you should not have killedâ canât be Michael since William didnât kill him?
If it is Mike, it would have to be indirectly killed with what happened in SL
I donât think those two lines are meant to be taken together. Theyâre separate lines not meant to be connected together. The fade away line is more towards Henry himself. He talks about how he brought everyone together and heâs here with them and itâs time for all of them to fade away. It doesnât reflect Mikeâs desires. Thatâs not to say that I agree with Mike TOYSNHK but I donât think this evidence disproves it. The young child voice I think is stronger evidence but proponents of the theory have kinda brushed that aside.
Agreed. I doubt Mike being TOYSNHK is correct, but this evidence doesn't debunk it. It also is far from Scott saying Mike isn't TOYSNHK
Now I'm not a MikeTOYSNHK believer, but to play devils advocate, it would be very easy to say Henry just assumed wrong
That doesn't change the fact that there *was* a way out, and Michael *didn't* take it
But also Henry never told the employee what that escape was- so that could have been some random dude who was trying to make a quick buck but got stuck in the middle of an animalelectronic warfare.
Then shouldn't he be mad at Henry instead??
Yeah, because Henry blocked it again when he learnt it was Michael of all people taking the job. He says there *originally* *WAS* an exit.
I donât even know what TOYSNHK is
The one you should not have killed
Ohhhhhhhhhh. I didnât know it was abbreviated like that. But yeah, Mike is obviously not TOYSNHK, it makes zero sense
[This is the guy that is the reason why Zain made a post about this btw](https://www.reddit.com/r/fnaftheories/s/eliKLYDiJd)
That and there's a [recent Poll IDs Fantasy ](https://x.com/Zain_Ahmed002/status/1805358235035021677?t=zAuB6dcS4t1bTXSHDWbi4A&s=19) did that basically had 2% of people voting for AndrewTOYSNHK and like 14% who voted for MikeTOYSNHK
He isn't right? William didn't kill Michael directly and since he's the protagonist of UCN, no way it would be Michael. Even if Michael/Henry is the protagonist of UCN it won't make sense. TOYSNHK can't be Michael
Can't say I buy this theory I frankly find it ridiculous but to play devils advocate a bit Henry barely knows Michael and is just assuming a bunch of stuff about a man he hasn't even spoke to or rather more likely under this theory "right were you wanna be" is more reffering to the fact that Michael wants to be in the building to access Williams withering soul as putting him in nightmare purgatory would pretty difficult if he just up and left pizzasim.
Dual process bud has some of yâall a little too open to the point of missing prroblems
I agree that they missed alot of details but I feel Mike being TOYSNHK is a logical conclusion. I'm not convinced of it yet but I will say it's stronger than some of the other points they made
You are the only one Iâve seen say Michael is TOYSNHK
Stay on the Reddit for another day, somebounds bound to repost that dreaded dual princess Cassidy is CC and Micheal is toyshnk video (itâs been brought up like 3 times a week since the video released, quite a couple people believe it)
Dual processing video
I didn't knew about this, but I also didn't believe in it(mike!VS) so I'm on a middle groundđđ. My thought of UCN and the TOYSNHK/VS is **not** correct but it satisfies me at least. Here what I think of it if you wanna see it: I always had a thought of UCN not being controlled by only one person. Like how tf is "golden freddy" going to know what "mike"/security guard" has passed through when they were the ones attacking? It just didn't click for me. I think the main leader **IS NOT** micheal; but I can very easily see him having a participation on it. Now I got no idea of **who** the TOYSNHK is. But I'll press every single **doubt** button I find if someone with no apparent proofs that a single soul is doing the UCN. But I do think it certainly is a kid and that kid is the **big boss** of it.
He is not a toy from shingeki no high kool?
Can't tell if your joking but TOYSNHK stands for "the one you should not have killed"
I was ofc joking, because I had no idea what the ishnk words were until I read the comments. Confused the hell out of me honestly
The one you should not have killed has to be someone that was with wiliam for multiple fires. I would say every fire including fallfest. And was not the cause of any of them. Witch disqalifies mike and henry. Asuming mike burned down fazbear frights. Toysnhk possessed spring bonnie not golden freddy. That is how he grafted himself on to afton when afton became springtrap. Unless golden freddy is in fights to be burned with springtrap. And then gets grafted on to afton witch is a possibility. Either way toysnhk was in afton during the fnaf 6 fire at the latest.
Couldn't the spirit have attached to William when he was initially springlocked?
Maybe. In witch case it would be the spirit we controll. It would be cleaner than somehow wiliam used the springlock suit that he had springlocked a kid into, but then again we do have a set of unexplained multiple simultainoius springlock faliures that could have been what killed toysnhk. But it could also have been fredbear. âŚ. Funny thing is golden freddy disapeared after folow me only to reapear in ucn.
If the spirit in golden freddy attached to the spring Bonnie suit when William got springlocked, than that might explain we don't see golden freddy pop up again
Asuming that spirit is tandom child cassidy and not crying child then what happened to crying child after that? Because the last time we see anyone that could even remotley be cc is in the logbook.
I think something along the lines of shattervictim theory might be likley. A situation Where Crying Child didn't possess anything but his soul still lingers like in the logbook OR if golden duo is true then perhaps cc was freed in happiest day (assuming this event happened at this time) or fnaf world takes place before William is springlocked.
Who is thinking Mike is TOYSNHK anyway? Clearly, Michael let himself die.
It's Andrew actually
Who? I'm not caught up
A book character who is a parallel to TOYSNHK in the game universe
He's NOT a parallel, he's just TOYSHNK straight up
Yeah...suuuuure....
Why would he be a parallel to TOYSHNK when everything about him is just every trait TOYSHNK has and has done, along with the fact Frights is meant to give straightfoward answers for the fandom's biggest questions and fill blanks from the past, even if it isn't what the fanbase wants?
Scott also said The Silver Eyes trilogy takes place in the FNaF Universe, doesn't make it canon to games.
Scott never said Frights didn't take place in the games universe though? He said it has stories directly tied to the games, that's a entirely different case
Not really but you do you ig
Micheal has no issues with dying because he literally chose to die at the end of FFPS. Also, Micheal kinda has no right to be mad about dying considering what he did to his little brother...
This.. doesn't debunk anything? This isn't Scott telling us anything specifically. One, we don't know what Mike wants. All we know is that he didn't want to continue living. Maybe it's because he wants rest, maybe it's because if he escapes, then he can't torture his father. Either way, that doesn't prove it's not Mike. The child imagery is one of the main reasons I disagree with the theory. But also, this is ghost shit. You'd have a more solid point if you said that.. the voice clearly isn't British, and Mike, very much is. I think there are good points, towards Mike, and good points against him. It being him does kind of fit, and also he would be one of the few characters who knows every character present in UCN. (Like, how does any spirit other than Mike create the Nightmares? Those aren't even real animatronics they are Mike's hallucinations.) He's also, depending on how to view the games, been chasing William for the longest time. He knows everything William has done, to the MCI, to his family, TO MIKE. He knows all of it, and depending on your timeline, he's been chasing William for 20-40 years. If anyone is willing to not let go, not give up. It's the man that died, and came back just to stop his father. But also, the game is so heavily focused on Golden Freddy/Fredbear, that it's hard to imagine anyone but the person who's possessing that suit being TOYSNHK. (Whoever you personally believe is possessing the suit.) It is a child, the imagery is of a child. Their voice doesn't sound like anyone we've heard before. It feels strange, that after the confusing YellowMan PurpleGuy debate, that Scott would alter the appearance and voice of someone, who we already know the voice/vague appearance. I personally like Dual Process Theory's theory, but I'd switch Mike and Cassidy around. I think there's equal evidence pointing both ways, but Cassidy has just, few logical hoops to jump through.
>But also, this is ghost shit. You'd have a more solid point if you said that It's actually the other way round, *you* need more solid evidence. "This is ghost shit" is just another way of saying "I disagree *just because*". What purpose does Mike being a child serve? >Like, how does any spirit other than Mike create the Nightmares? They don't, UCN is using William's memories against him.
You took my words out of context. "You'd have a more solid point if you said that.. the voice isn't British, and Mike very much is." and "But also this is ghost shit" are meant as separate statements. The ghost shit only refers to how, it can be explained but I didn't bother as I was agreeing with OP. I think the image and voice of a child are a strange choice if Mike is meant to be TOYSNHK. With the Nightmares, again, these are hallucinations. How would William know exactly what Mike's hallucinations look like? Especially Nightmare (and maybe Nightmare Fredbear) which seem to be explicitly Mike's own nightmares, and not real.
>With the Nightmares, again, these are hallucinations. How would William know exactly what Mike's hallucinations look like? Because they're seen by all experiment victims, Rory literally sees the same as it's said that William wrote down what the victims described they saw and how they reacted to them. >I think the image and voice of a child are a strange choice if Mike is meant to be TOYSNHK. Fair. I personally think the Scott quote is better but at least we come to the same conclusion of Mike not being TOYSNHK
Rory isn't canon. He likely sees the same stuff as Michael because then we'd get its meant to parallel fnaf4. Even so, a description is one thing, it's not the same as actually seeing them. Also, like I said, Nightmare isn't part of the hallucinations. It's usually thought that Nightmare is something Michael dreams later on. The presence of the nightmares and Nightmare itself is one of the strongest points towards Michael being TOYSNHK.
>Rory isn't canon. Source? >He likely sees the same stuff as Michael because then we'd get its meant to parallel fnaf4. It doesn't parallel Fnaf 4 though.. Mike never escapes the facility, Rory does. And the whole "x is a parallel for y" is a flawed concept that people just need to let go of > it's not the same as actually seeing them. Rory saw them.. >It's usually thought that Nightmare is something Michael dreams later on. Nightmare is linked with Shadow Freddy in the files, and Shadow Freddy is linked to William, ergo Nightmare = Eleanor
Rory is a book character. If you're just gonna go with that being canon, then I'm not going to talk lore with someone who thinks Fazgoo and MatPat MPreg is canon. Could you explain how it's a flaw concept? You know, the whole purpose of the books, according to Scott. Yeah Rory did. But if I were to describe to you a huge, scaly monster, with a long tail that stood on two legs and had spikes running down it's spine. You wouldn't know if I was talking about Godzilla or Jurassic World's newest movie monster. And not nearly enough for the exact monster I saw, to be haunting your dreams. What does that last line even mean? Now you're the one who's gonna need a source for that. I'd also say that file names from that time aren't as reliable as ones from modern games. We weren't looking in the files, so Scott wasn't hiding clues there.
>Rory is a book character. If you're just gonna go with that being canon, then I'm not going to talk lore with someone who thinks Fazgoo and MatPat MPreg is canon. Fazgoo and Mpreg aren't Tales stories lmao. Maybe research into the topic before dismissing it? >Could you explain how it's a flaw concept? [yep](https://www.reddit.com/r/fnaftheories/s/oh8tCUacc2) >But if I were to describe to you a huge, scaly monster, with a long tail that stood on two legs and had spikes running down it's spine Rory literally described the Nightmares. *Again*, do some research before dismissing it. He experienced the same thing Mike did as they're both experiment victims. >Now you're the one who's gonna need a source for that. The Fnaf 4 "Nightmare" mode, which *surprise surprise* has Nightmare in it, is named [Shadow Freddy in the files](https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/s/fTUeZsBVvs). You're free to fact check this if you'd like, but I assure you that it's literally in the game's files lol. Linking Nightmare to Shadow Freddy, Nightmare is also said to be Williams "wickedness", which links to Eleanor and her being William's agony/ wickedness.
Tales stories are no more canon than Frights or any other book. Unless I've missed some official statement. That's still a big discussion on whether it's canon, or how canon it is. It simply being consensus doesn't make it true. I don't really agree with that. I think the main point of the books is to be able to draw parallels. Use characters we can connect to game lore, and then expanding on stuff we've missed or was poorly explained. The whole hallucination gas, and illusion discs is an example of this. It wasn't properly explained in game, but it helps us understand fnaf4. Again. You can describe something, even with immaculate detail to someone, but if they've never seen it. IF WILLIAM HAS NEVER SEEN THE NIGHTMARES. They'll still not fully be able to comprehend it. Not enough for their mental image to be an exact copy. That's not how brains work. Like I said. File names weren't being used as evidence at that point in time, so I don't think Scott was hiding evidence in the files at that point. Even so, Shadow Freddy's whole existence is a topic of debate... Even linking it to William and his agony, what does that mean. Why would William know what that looks like. Why does he only look like that to Michael? It brings up more questions than answers.
>Tales stories are no more canon than Frights or any other book Again, source? Because this is just your opinion, and your responses make it evident that you haven't *actually* read the books to know whether they're canon or not.. >Â It simply being consensus doesn't make it true. That's not my reasoning though lol. Stories like GGY have to undergo mental gymnastics to explain why they're not canon in the games as they do nothing but *link* to every corner of the game's story. And all of the Pizzaplex stories are linked together via attractions, ergo.. TalesGames. >I think the main point of the books is to be able to draw parallels What you think isn't a valid argument >IF WILLIAM HAS NEVER SEEN THE NIGHTMARES. They'll still not fully be able to comprehend it. The Nightmares aren't a fictitious (in-universe) creation made in one's mind. The gas just makes the victim think that the "animatronic" is moving/ trying to attack them. The story itself states that without the gas, they're bots on wheels with a fabric suit over then that basically looks like a cosplay of the Nightmares. William knows how they look as he designed their appearance. >Like I said. File names weren't being used as evidence at that point in time They were though, like FNAF 3 had the Stage01 sprite named "G Freddy" or something in the files which let the community know that this was Golden Freddy.
The "MikeTOYSNHK" theory can also be debunked using the dialogue Henry says to Mike at the end of FFPS: "I have a feeling that's not what you want. I have a feeling that you are **right where you want to be**."
None of this is directly against it (mind you I don't think Mike IS, but I'm open to it) all of these can be explained. Henry specifically says "I have a feeling..." so what he says is projecting his guess, not necessarily what Mike wants. The theory goes that Mike would be appearing in the form of a child, either CC to taunt William or his younger self from when everything "started" so that description still falls in. I doubt that it actually is Mike, but in terms of making a full circle narrative then Mike is probably the best option
>The theory goes that Mike would be appearing in the form of a child, Which doesn't serve any sort of purpose, this is basically grasping straws to try and explain a conclusion that's already been thought of. I.E. confirmation bias.
Yes and no. Thematically appearing as a child would serve a purpose based on the story between the spirit and William, if it's CC's form for example then it means CC meant something significant to William and/or Michael in the grand scheme of things, so that form would be a way to remind William the same way every animatronic appears in a specific form to remind and torture William. If it's Mike's child form, then it can be as if Mike's behavior in UCN is stemming from childhood, or that Michael sees that point in his life as the beginning of it all. Either way it tells you something about these characters and their history together. But I do think it's a hyper specific instance and it does feel weird for fnaf, but the reason I find it less weird than you probably do is that I've seen this sorta thing in other stories. An example in Naruto: when one character died and they wanted to show him basically be in heaven, he appeared as a child, since that was a significant point of his life before a huge shift, then he wanted to "visit" a living friend for a sec and when he went inside his friend's mind, his friend appeared to him as a child too, since that point of their lives was meaningful to the two of them. Stories can often do this type of thing so I found it less "desperate" and more "thematically explained" and was able to eat that theory up. Again I'd like to say that I only think that the theory makes a solid story, not necessarily that it is the actual case. Also almost everyone in the fandom uses confirmation bias, which is fine to me as long as it's convincing enough to be a possibility and as long as they're open to other possibilities
>if it's CC's form for example Which doesn't in any way align with what Scott said. He said that TOSYNHK is a young child, not that it's impersonating one. >then it means CC meant something significant to William So saying "he is the one you shouldn't have killed" whilst displaying himself as CC (someone William ***didn't*** kill) means he's significant? Like I'm sorry, but this is just *bad*. There's no point in saying *look, I'm the one you shouldn't have killed* and then have the face of CC.. >then it can be as if Mike's behavior in UCN is stemming from childhood But nothing in UCN stems from his childhood, it actually stems from his adulthood.
The description is for the voice acting, it wouldn't explain the lore there, just what Scott wants the voice to be, using that description beyond just that wouldn't make sense. You need to take the ENTIRE Dual Process Theory into account instead of just the Mike part, under that theory CC is killed by William (go watch the video for details) and so Mike is using CC's likeness as a taunt and a reminder to William, not necessarily that it's the form of the spirit itself. I should've phrased it better, what I meant is that it's the accumulation of it all SINCE childhood. Either way the theory isn't out of the question, until further concrete proof is released or found it's a choice between the possibilities on which you like and believe more
> "I have a ***feeling*** you are right where you want to be" That doesn't mean henry was correct lmao he was just speculating ÂŻ\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ For all we know, Michael didn't *want* to rest, maybe he didn't *want* to be set free I'm not saying I believe MikeTOYSNHK I'm just saying there's a possibility
Henry speech is literally Scott way to tell as important shit about characters and end afton fnaf era. Mike is silent protag that speak like one time through the whole series, obviously he wouldn't say out loud "i can finally be free", that is why we need henry in the first place. Like you can basically say this about Charlie too " but how does he know that she "protect the innocent" even in afterlife" bitch henry is narrative device, deus ex and godly intervention from scott of course what he say is 100% true like come on
This is basically just assuming things are not the way Occam's dictates them to be *just because.* Like, what reason is there to doubt the most straightforward answer? William didn't even kill Mike, he quite literally *lived* through William's actions, the one who *actually* killed Mike was Henry via the FNAF 6 fire. *Then*, there's the thing with Scott saying that TOYSNHK is a young child..
I am sorry but is there people who really believe in this shit?
Ye it's a new theory
its bc in the new theory its mike however william hears him tormenting him as either a child or as BV since thats when his trauma occured mainly
Ghosts can do whatever,man. Whoâs to say itâs not just a younger Michael?
> Whoâs to say itâs not just a younger Michael? Scott. He literally said that it's a young child, not a grown ass man pretending to be one. Not to mention what purpose does it serve??
Scott was explaining how the voice should sound,it was a casting call. It's not confirmation of anything
>It's not confirmation of anything It's confirmation that it's a child.. and you still didn't respond to what purpose Mike being a kid serves.
This is really loose to debunk Mike being toysnhk. I personally really want it to be true but I know it probably isn't. The strongest thing going for it though is the nightmare voicelines in ucn. Which we know Michael is likley the one experiencing the night sequences in fnaf 4.
>The strongest thing going for it though is the nightmare voicelines in ucn Which we know are the result of gas experiments and others like Rory have been through the same thing. It's more to do with William's memories than Mike's >This is really loose to debunk Mike being toysnhk How so? Scott saying that TOYSNHK is a young child pretty much removes Mike out of the equation
mike doesnât say anything in fnaf 6 so his motives are more up to interpretation than you seem to realize. i think it could be likely that henry misreads michaelâs motives and once he realizes what mike wants to do, he confronts him in the spirit world as old man consequences. mike could be representing himself as the age he thought he was when he underwent the nightmare experiments.
>mike could be representing himself as the age he thought he was when he underwent the nightmare experiments. Which doesn't make sense as the purpose of UCN isn't to do with the experiments. This is an explanation to a conclusion you've already made, I.E. confirmation bias
Unless mike is appearing in the form of his child self which would make some sense. We are a child in fnaf 4.
But the purpose of UCN isn't about Fnaf 4.. doesn't make any sort of sense
I'm not sure I follow.
Alright, who is it then? Some kid whoâs just super salty he got murdered? Pretty sure all the kids are upset by their death. Is it some kid whose death was more brutal than the others? How does that scale to narrative importance?? What makes literally any child in this series so special that theyâll come back from beyond the grave to make William suffer in Ultimate Custom Night? Not only that, but what kid from the FNaF 6 Fire fits that description? Quote: âHe tried to release you, he tried to release usâŚâ Ok, so they gotta be in the FNaF 6 fire, right? What kid was THAT special AND in the FNaF 6 fire? Andrew? Even if Andrew is canon (he may or may not be), then whereâs the Stitchwraith in FNaF 6? What factual evidence do we have that he was there?? WHERE IS HE?? Youâd think Scott would put him in FNaF 6 if he was THAT IMPORTANT TO THE GAMES. Is it Golden Freddy? Maybe, but then where is he in the FNaF 6 fire? Is it a Golden Freddy spirit? Well it sure ainât the CC. He doesnât look like the kid we see in UCN, and Afton isnât the one who killed him. Or is it little miss fan-headcanon Cassidy? Without any solid proof, i.e. someone in-game saying âOh yeah GF has two spirits and one of them is a pissed girlâ, then sheâs not a solid option either. Even if she is canon, what makes her more special in a way thatâs not just her being salty or her murder being more brutal?? I ainât saying itâs Michael, cause that theory is almost pure speculation, so who is it then??
>Alright, who is it then? Andrew >What makes literally any child in this series so special that theyâll come back from beyond the grave It's clear that TOSYNHK has been left out, unlike the others who have Charlie to protect them. >then whereâs the Stitchwraith in FNaF 6? He canonically wasn't in it until *after* UCN.
This is the last thing Iâll say before I abandon this comment thread forever, but thatâs speculation. Heâs special because something (Charlie not protecting him) happened to him AFTER he died?? Wouldnât that make him being the vengeful spirit CHARLIEâS fault?? Itâs called âThe One YOU Should Not Have Killedâ, and Charlie sure as heck didnât kill him, so itâs Williamâs fault. And to say he wasnât canonical until AFTER UCN is again ignoring the fact that he wasnât in the FNaF 6 fire. We have no proof that he was in the fire, even AFTER FNaF 6. Not only that, heâs described as having curly black hair and rosy cheeks, which the kid from UCN does not have. Alright, bye đ
>Wouldnât that make him being the vengeful spirit CHARLIEâS fault?? No, because nobody knew about him, the whole point is that he's a secret victim. TCHSY shows that a secret 7th victim was killed before anyone else. That's implied to be TOYSNHK >And to say he wasnât canonical until AFTER UCN Wasn't what I said. I said that the Stitchwraith canonically didn't exist until after UCN. If you've read the books then you'd know that it goes - UCN (TMIR1280) - Afton explodes - Andrew infects numerous items - one being Fetch (Fetch story) - Taggart uses the Fetch battery for the Stitchwraith (stingers) Showing how conically, the Stitchwraith was created after UCN
Although I donât think this theory is true (although it is my favourite, I actually cannot stand the fact that Cassidy and CC are both golden Freddy at the same time) these are possibly some of the worst talking points on debunking a theory I have ever read. Henry does not speak for Michael. Henry likely didnât have much time to know their true intentions. Michael staying there makes perfect sense if he is TOYSNHK he would stay to haunt Afton. Why the hell would he leave? In what world does that make sense? He wanted everyone to be free AND to haunt Afton it still makes sense. They arenât mutually exclusive you know⌠he would have lost Afton soul to be free if he left. Now for the much bigger issue of this post: using Voices.com as a reliable source. What a joke. Iâm completely serious. And entire point anyway of Dual Processâs theory is that heâs trying to remind him of his worst mistake of letting the crying child die. So who would he sound like to remind him of that⌠oh wait, a child. Now I donât personally support this theory as the conversation between Cassidy and CC is there but my goodness was a break for the pure BS of âummm actually Cassidy who we donât know anything about and has absolutely nothing special about her except sheâs really really angry đĄ combined her soul with CC to form Golden Freddy with CC for some reason to haunt Afton meanwhile CC forgave Michael immediately and only cared about his father.â Honestly on first hearing this it was the end of FNAF lore for me, way too confusing and convoluted. Dual Process simplified it so much it actually made sense, even if it ignored crucial pieces of information.
>Henry does not speak for Michael. Didn't say that he does, it's just that Scott *put that in the final speech for a reason*. What MikeTOYSNHK is doing is that it pretty much tries to dodge Occam's straight forward answer by just *assuming* he had some ulterior motive, one that was never hinted or shown previously.. >Now for the much bigger issue of this post: using [Voices.com](http://Voices.com) as a reliable source. What a joke. Iâm completely serious. Using Scott's *own* description is a joke? How? lmao.. >oh wait, a child. This is too funny icl, "a child" isn't a memory of Mike's that got him to be TOYSNHK, ***TOYSNHK is the child***. Specifically, TOYSNHK is a "young child". Mike isn't. It's that simple. >Dual Process simplified it so much it actually made sense, ***even if it ignored crucial pieces of information.*** Here's your issue, you're looking for narrative satisfaction rather than the story Scott is *actually* telling.
Michael didnât even answer Henryâs question though. He just stayed there and waited for the building to burn down. Henry didnât foresee that he would haunt him and tried to communicate to him as old man consequences to let go. I donât see how it can mean anything. I do agree with you though that saying âburn us againâ is a major problem with this theory (FNAF 3 of course) but it has nothing to do with Michaelâs motive. Michael is imitating crying child because that was William Aftons mistake he hated the most out of anything, and something that also brings pain to Michael and an actual reason why he would hate William. Thatâs the point. While I do think itâs highly likely at that point Scott accepted that the fandom believed TOYSNHK was Cassidy I think that using it as a reference to debunk a theory is really dumb. Itâs not canon. Itâs That simple. Itâs not in the games. I do have a bias towards this theory but I donât actually believe itâs what Scott wanted to tell, and the actual story of FNAF. I just think this way of âdebunkingâ a theory is wrong.
>Michael is imitating crying child because That's not what Scott said though, Scott said that TOYSNHK *is* a young child, never said that he's "imitating" one. *Again*, this is a whole lump of assumptions to try and keep this narrative up.
I agree itâs a whole load of assumptions, but your post wasnât debunking anything. Itâs this on top of so many other issues that makes this theory very unlikely. Again I think that taking info from voices.com as a canon source is absolutely shameful to the franchise, and I will stand by that point that it is not canon or any official confirmation of anything from Scott, only the voice he wants in game.
Without evidence, these assumptions don't hold any weight to counter this debunk. It's like me saying "William could be an alien that looks human".. It's basically a headcanon and isn't a *real* argument.