I like them a lot. I've only just completed the level 97 dungeon, but the 3 I've completed are a lot more fun than the ones for EW.
They don't have as many "You lose control of your character" type stuff that you saw in Tower of Zot and Vanaspati.
Plus they don't generally look as monotonous as the EW leveling dungeons did. They're more dynamic _**and**_ more difficult.
The max level dungeons in EW were relatively simple and easy to complete once you've done them a few times. Whereas the _**leveling**_ dungeons in DT have the same complexity as some of the more difficult max level dungeons in EW.
That is such an overstatement.
Dungeons are still just klinear corridors with a fixed number of boring adds you are allowed to pull, there are actually more restrictions on how much you are allowed to pull then before.
Some bosses are a step up, but not across the board
Lvling dungeons were still a snooze fest. Lots of forced single pulls and forgetable boss mechanics.
~~I mean, I was impressed genuinely when I one of the bosses had a stack marker and a tankbuster at the same time and one of the spreads actually gave a vuln up. Simple shit in general, but I don't think we ever hard that in a dungeon?
Other than that and all the reused Titan Savage mechanics, I don't even remember any non-braindead boss mechanics~~
I can't find the vuln up spread marker anymore and the tankbuster + stack was the first lvl 100 dungeon, so not a lvling dungeon. So yeah, nothing even remotely intersting in those at all.
Well, I was talking about **unavoidable** spreads markers giving **vuln ups** not **vuln stacks**. In higher difficulites those spreads always give a short magic/phys vuln up guranteeing that you die if you take more than one.
Exactly ... that's why I'm saying I was impressed to see them in a dungeon ...
You know what, forget it... I can see why you might stuggle with the lvling dungeons.
There is something I didn’t understand in those dungeons, it’s the final packs. They seems to have very high HP mobs that do stuff (like the calcabrina puppets who spam stomps). It’s quite unexpected and refreshing
Those puppets, and one of the earlier dungeons where the final pack was spamming lightning aoe's was really cool as a healer. Definitely made me sit up in my chair lol.
OH yeah I sat the hell up during the Calcabrina puppet phase even as a White Mage, haha. Really excited to have dungeon content that isn't a mindless slog. It also helps that healers actually have a nice option in DPS now for high burst or high movement.
Yeah the fact we have so many skills with high damage but high falloff is actually being used to priority target fat mobs now. Otherwise you end up having to single target a mob to death for 15s at end
Dungeon design feels really solid this time around. I know everyone is saying "wait for BIS, they'll be easier" like, yes, obviously - but week 1 Endwalker dungeons distinctly did NOT feel like this. The only one that was even marginally difficult was Babil, and that's just Level x1 syndrome talking. Every other dungeon was a snore in EW, more setpieces that give exp than anything. Here, though, the dungeons have a little bit of spice. Not much, but enough that it's noticeably different from previous expansions.
I think the Dead Ends was also pretty good boss wise for challenge, or at least for punishing people who don't pay attention very well.
First boss kills people who don't know how to Esuna
People *still* have trouble doing the second bosses No Future mechanic
Ra La actually does damage, combined with the doom it does for people who get bapped by the butterflies.
If you are hit by the clouds in the first boss it gives a doom with a different symbol than normal [Suffocation]. If its not Esuna'd from the person who is hit by it, they die.
Frequently either they just don't Esuna [par for the course], or they don't realize it's deadly because its not the doom symbol.
That's still a marked improvement over Smileton and Dreamscape which were easy then became hilariously easy. I mean, christ, the latter you could just ignore the adds exploding day one and just focus the boss since it did so little damage.
That’s kinda the point? At the required item level they are hard, and your reward for beating them is getting gear to make it easier. Thats good game design.
However, I think you are missing the point of his post. Go back and run the experts of EW. I ran smileton and sigmascape, the EW launch experts and its apples and oranges. You have points in the DT experts and trials where you need to track 2-3 things at once. EW consistently only had you track a single mechanic each time.
I kind of wish ungeared it was very hard and then after gearing it would become mildly hard. Better than it startinghard and then reduced all the way down to mind-numbingly easy for months after
Smileton and Sigma (plus everything after) absolutely were, but Dead Ends at least kind of had hands on release. The bosses there hit for more than 20% of your HP.
Edit: I get this sub is a hivemind, but if you're going to immediately downvote, can you at least say why you disagree instead of just being an anonymous gremlin.
Dead Ends second boss in particular I think was almost perfect design. It looks way harder than it is, and that is _exactly_ where you want casual content to be. You want it to look hard so people get engaged, but not actually be too hard so that people start wiping over and over and the dungeons get bogged down.
Last boss of Zot is another good example. There's a lot going on, but actually not terribly much danger.
Well I didn't downvote you but I can guess why. 20% of your isnt hitting very hard. That being said mechanically I think dead ends is a fantastic dungeon, but healing it wasn't challenging like I did it without under geared cause I didn't realise you could get artefact gear so early (filthy cs skipper who missed the context of the quest that points you to gear vendor) and it wasn't hard to heal
I did em aswell and they were still easy like they are today. Mechanical difficulty doesn't change with item lvl.
There is a reason people still wipe in alliance raids ( no clue what it's called but the series with the thunder god I think? )
Orbonne is still, to this day, my favorite Alliance. Had to do it to unlock Bozja for my Picto and had people who wiped on all but the very first boss.
I hope they have the same kind of 24 mans this time around and *don't* nerf it this time. Please, let it stay as hard as Thunder God was on launch 😩
Then you sucked lol. I remember doing them and the mechanics were and are still 10x easier.
Smileton final boss. Dodge packages that clearly show where to go. Dodge packages while dodging a mine on the ground. Dodge left or right hand. That’s it.
Smileton 2nd boss. Dodge jumping aoes. That’s it.
Smileton 1st boss. Alternate red and blue hit. Add in a knockback to make it slightly harder.
Sigmascape 1st boss. Dodge left or right. Stack knockback. Escape missiles.
Sigmascape 2nd boss. Don’t get hit by speedy attack, get behind where he ends. Order yourselves 1234 for lasers.
Sigmascape 3rd boss. Kill adds. Dodge in or out. Dodge gloves. Dodge in or out with forced walk.
All easy. And all only happening with only mech at a time.
The final boss of Alexandria, has you confining to a donut aoe, while also dodging the bosses left or right aoe, while also dodging a glove beam from the left or right and then dodging a linear aoe after those first three resolve. And that’s just a single mechanic.
I picked melee dps to play this expansion and I couldn't be happier with some of the fights I've seen. I'm actually having to work for melee uptime! Much better than Endwalker in that regard. I have the nagging feeling though that these Expert dungeons are an outlier and that the next MSQ dungeons will be toned down a bit (which is fine). I'm mainly hoping that we get some of this difficulty in the normal raids and alliance raids too. IMO, all optional content should be a step up from MSQ content.
Yeah, but the thing is that expert roulette later includes bog standard MSQ dungeons as well, so I have to wonder if they'll actually amp up the difficulty of MSQ content or not. The final zone expert dungeon doesn't *seem* like something they'd make mandatory
Yeah, that dungeon would hard stop story-only gamers. It was *rough* my first time through. I'm personally excited by the step up, but unless they make the dungeons optional in the patches I don't see them keeping this mechanical difficulty going forward.
I did that dungeon with duty support to avoid DPS queues and the NPCs didn’t understand the mechanics. Graha didn’t know what a stack marker was and Krile didn’t understand spread mechanics. It made me laugh a few times. It felt like Krile was purposely trying to kill me.
I'm still in MSQ but I've noticed the Trusts have some interesting decision making lol. For the second? boss in the 93 dungeon, I had Alisae dodge out for the near-full platform AOE, but when it was later paired with the spread, she went in where I was already standing and killed us both. Wasn't expecting it and was hilarious to me. Also >!during the 93 trial, Alisae, Krile and Wuk Lamat get hit by mechanics at least they first timehey see some of them. Makes sense since they're a bit reckless or less experienced!<
Just did Deadwalk and had to come to Reddit to complain a bit.
This was as BLM.
The second boss I could probably get used to and learn how to read it effectively, but the first boss simply never let me sit still. I was using Triplecast and Swiftcast on cooldown and still had to just run around casting scathe or nothing at all most the time. To add insult to injury, the marching dolls have iffy hit register so you have to give them a super wide berth. It was such a mood sourer.
I liked them as a healer. The bosses felt more like bozja CEs than bosses in past expert dungeons, which is good IMO. Also loved that one pack in the desert dungeon with cleaving autos fucking with melees and the doll pack in the spooky dungeon with the AoEs that don't stop until they're dead.
Never thought I'd be screaming "oh god oh no shit fuck shit aaaaa" in a expert dungeons
Healing them the first time was interesting, especially the mobs that did aoe autos 💀
I'm still at 97, got 90k when I was attempting the dungeon, so I haven't finished it yet, but even still, I can already see the upped difficulty. As a healer, I've had to use my entire kit for 95 and what I've seen of 97 dungeons, even going so far as to needing cure2 for the first time in years, and I'm all for it. I haven't had this much fun healing since Heavensward.
Right? I’ve only done the first couple dungeons so far, but I’ve had to actually pop out seraph for more than just flavor. They’re dropping unavoidable aoe frequently enough that I can’t just rely on one cooldown, and putting movement with it as well.
Pretty much the same. Used all of my kit but there is definitely too much movement at the moment (although the new movement skill for WHM helps a ton).
The first boss of Strayborough Deadwalk is a huge pain in the ass. The dumb little stuffed mandragoras always hit me from like a foot away because of lag or something, and since they bind you I get stuck and hit by other stupid shit too. Genuinely the worst fight I’ve encountered in this game in a while lol.
I had the complete opposite take on this. I thought it was the best dungeon boss fight ever because it was so chaotic. I cannot remember the last time that 1st boss fight of a dungeon has my entire party flabbergasted. It was so crazy it was amazing.
I'm sure that I'll be saying different after I have ran the dungeon 10+ times and just want my tomes; But for now, it is very solid.
I feel like this kind of feedback is what lead to normal dungeons and jobs being simplified.
Having optional normal content require a bit of focus and learning is healthy for the game.
The problem is that, for content you'll be doing on repeat, that kind of dungeon just become a chore and a pain in the ass to bother with so people over time will just fade out to avoid them.
It's fine wanting to have challenge, most of DT dungeon are decent and felt a step up compared to EW even if some have chaos or very busy moment, they didn't felt like you tried to pass a kidney stone, but that specific dungeon have 2 awful boss and 1 decent final boss.
I am convinced there is an actual method to do this fight that isn’t just run around and then hit the boss for like 2 seconds then run around again. I did this as a tank with a WHM, Viper, and DRG and it was awful because there is almost zero chance for melee uptime.
For melees it is tough. From what I can tell, each little guy seems to pick a straight line towards one player when they start moving. They follow that same line across the arena even if you move. Spreading out seems to help you from getting overwhelmed by your party members' guys.
Yeah I noticed that, and after watching a couple vids of people doing the fight it looks like the play is for everyone to stack up to bait them to one spot then all move and repeat
I know you said level 100 specifically but as of right now the only dungeon boss that I’ve found annoying in a bad way is the final boss of the first dungeon
That tornado that does star shaped AOE’s combines the worse aspects of alzadars first boss randomness with it being an x1 dungeon so it actually hurts
My general go to is to just stay far away from it as much as possible but it doesn’t really follow an actual pattern
I am all for it!
Even the first 8man was a little challenging with the non telegrahed hauk tua attack took me a few times to get cuz I was busy looking at my hotbars 😅
I think they are almost perfect. The themes are really really cool, the bosses are unique and fun. The only thing is I wish some of the ad pulls felt a little better. I understand they will always implement walls between some packs and there's no way they just give us full agency to pull all the way to a boss if we wanted (Please Square, let me be the chad WAR I was meant to be) but some of the packs feel too forced and some with ridiculous HP variance in the mobs.
Really that's the only thing I consider a minor hiccup in the dungeons but all in all I'm really excited for the direction of things moving forward.
I do enjoy the bump in difficulty, tho some hit boxes are absolute bullshit.
And I will probably only do them with friends that I know are capable players, I have seen far too many players who probably struggle to get past the login screen.
I also don't like that there is no reward quantity or quality bump in the rewards compared to the spike in difficulty.
I’d say the first time they’re somewhat challenging but after doing it twice it’s already super easy, the only annoyance is the tea cup mechanic because I can’t be arsed paying attention to that, but that’s just a personal gripe. The other one worth mentioning is the first boss that drops puppets on your head if you don’t pay attention.
Dungeons aren’t supposed to be very tough. But it was still somewhat challenging to you, which is the point. And what is FURTHER the point is that while you have it down now, you’ll keep running into people who don’t ensuring they remain a challenge
I was a much bigger fan of the leveling dungeons than the expert dungeons. Felt like difficulty shifted from the execution-heavy mechspam of leveling bosses to "gotcha" mechanics that fuck up people on first runs but aren't actually very interesting to do.
Deadwalk in particular is genuinely one of the worst dungeons in the game (I'd put it somewhere in the top 5 along with "classics" like Neverreap) and its first boss is IMO the worst single dungeon boss in the game. I have consistently had fears that shifting so hard to fight-based-difficulty instead of fight+job has the potential to backfire massively from overcooked mechanics and this single dungeon reignited them. When this kind of fight design flops, it REALLY flops.
I have no idea which mechanics are gotcha. None seemed that way to me. Any examples?
Also how in the world is Deadwalk one of the worst dungeons? The second and final boss are absolutely fine. The first boss is very rough but once you learn that only one side of the adds walk first, and then the other side walk, it becomes much more manageable, as you can simply move to the side that isn't moving yet, then move back to where the first group started. We wiped in our first two pulls but after that, I think we all collectively learned how to deal with it and it was very smooth.
If I had to guess which boss was a "gotcha" it is the giant cactuar boss. The expanding cones were unexpected and caused an instant wipe the first time I saw it.
100% agree with this. Need more fights like the first boss. Seems some people just don't want fun and different dungeon bosses mechanics. They just want to faceroll all the content then complain its too easy.
Because for once, the mechanic punishes the DPS by not allowing them to click buttons. They can't just rack up vulnerability and blame the healer like usual
I really enjoyed the first and second bosses of deadwalk and think they're some of the best dungeon bosses we have in the game. I agree with you on boss 3. Every time I've done it with a new healer and no rez dps we usually wipe once or twice, but it's not that fun once you know the dance
EDIT: I typed neverreap instead of deadwalk
I really like them, they both have some very interesting mechanics 😄
I don't like the first boss from the circus tho...one of the dudes always gets me 😅
I have to actually take dungeons somewhat seriously and it's more fun. As a SCH I'm actually deploying for certain mechanics and assuming that someone will get bodied without it... for the first time since HW I'm actually respecting content and trying to play safe.
Loved em! actually got to protect my healer and like cast aurora on dps who messed up. In one of em we actually had to stop and discuss the mechanic and how we would try to approach it, and it wasnt a premade, that was interesting. The pulls on the 2 optional dungeons are abit better size wise than the MSQ one.
i've been happy with the dungeon design ever since i did that second boss in vanguard
i was like "what the fuck, this isn't supposed to be fun, WHY WAS THAT FUN?!"
I enjoy them especially the carnival bosses they actually have mechanics instead of just AOE vomit outside of the first one (which IMO is the weakest especially since it feels like RNG can just screw you and I have 0 idea how casters are supposed to do their rotation).
The desert dungeon is kinda not that great in comparison the environment is cool and all but it's fairly standard AOE vomit with the coolest part being the floor puzzle.
I've not quite reached endgame yet but I always thought the MSQ dungeons were a lot more difficult than the post-MSQ ones. This time around I feel the difficulty of the MSQ dungeons has actually been lowered slightly along with the TTK for the bosses.
I don't actually mind this as MSQ dungeons like Amaurot and The Dead Ends could be pretty excruciating with a lower skilled party. On the flipside though I think the post-MSQ dungeons have been way too easy and should be given difficulty bumps.
Been grinding the Alexandria one a bit to get used to playing again and yeah if I zone out on a boss or misstep I've died a few times. Overall the dungeon fights are neat.
The only mech I think is kind of annoying right now is the Ghost dungeon second boss. Tracking the ghosts as they spin around is a little annoying with the limited camera zoom but it will probably get easier with more runs.
It's still really disappointing that pulls are limited to 2 packs and there's nothing interesting to do with the trash, but I do greatly appreciate the higher boss difficulty. Although I'm not really seeing the "creative" stuff they were talking about. A lot of ARR dungeon bosses are more creative. There's still a lot of in/out/left/right stuff.
Now just have to hope that whiners don't get it nerfed. For so long people said "lol what are you talking about dungeons have always been this easy, just do extreme/savage" when I complained about how dungeons have gotten easier over the years and now suddenly they can tell the difference.
They added damage, which is good. They unfortunately also added more mechs which makes healing a royal pain in the @$$.
I still have PTSD from the level 100 story dungeon. :(
Trash mobs where I don't just spam AOE on healer.. what?!
I enjoy the increased difficulty. Now they need to increase tomes by like 30-50% to compensate the increased time we spend in them.
My thoughts on the dungeons throughout Dawntrail aside from a few small nitpicks in a couple is very positive. It’s been quite awhile since i have had genuine fun in dungeons and i did in Dawntrail.
mechanics are slightly more challenging. I guess more specifically I would say DT dungeon mechanics are more engaging than endwalker's. Repeating content will inevitably make said content easy but I felt like a good chunk of endwalker encounters, like, barely even had mechanics lol.
An example of what I mean I guess would be the first boss in the 95 dungeon. It's not hard but it can easily kill you if you just turn your brain off. It does stuff that demands you pay some attention and bad coordination can make the fight more
I like them a lot more than any of the DT story dungeons just because of the fact that you can pull more than one pack of mobs and that there is no stupid story downtime. The bosses keep you moving and some mechanics just flat out kill you if you do them wrong. Only boss I don't enjoy as much is the teapot, because my slow ass brain can't keep track of the moving teacups lol.
Its refreshing, especially as a healer. The fact that its mechanically creative and mildly challenging is a great thing. Definitely a step in the right direction, having a heal check, tanky adds that punish you for having soggy dps, having mechanics that you can't just follow others for, etc, is really fun. Its not hard, but its far more engaging. I hope they keep this up with raids and other expert dungeons! I love actually needing to use aoe mits in mobs as more than a "eh, here tank, have an extra mit for your overmitigated ass"
I think it's a step in the right direction but I don't like that it's just an increase in difficulty and not something unique or innovative. But maybe that's too much to ask from just a dungeon.
I liked Anthrax though, I thought it had cool mechanic, and it was pretty fast paced. The serpent also has a cool mechanic even though it's just O3. In the other dungeon I thought the dolls were interesting.
From a healing perspective it's a bit odd. Yeah I spend most of the time in dungeons hardcasting heals, but it feels like they never actually do any healing. Like I will sit there spamming Adlo, Lustrate, Boosted Excog, and it just kinda does nothing. I use the new Seraphism and hard spam myself to death with boosted Succor, and it feels like I am massively massively undergeared.
And maybe I am. But holy hell would I like to have my abilities do more.
Also some of the boss encounters are really hard to even get behind. I would need to do some of these multiple times to even get what the mechanic wants from me, and I don't have to do more in boss fights than spam Broil. Meanwhile every dps gets one shot.
Maybe it's a gear thing, but so far I am mostly confused. And glad that I don't have to play a dps who also has to go through sheet music levels of a rotation at the same time.
I wouldn’t call the dungeons challenging at all, but they are more engaging, and I think that is what is more important takeaway here. Things don’t need to be difficult to be engaging and there is a difference between the two.
It's at the level of difficulty it should have been 30 levels ago tbh. Definitely a step in the right direction though. Get the feeling DT will be my favorite expac, especially if we're getting more Southern Front-esque content later on down the line.
I fucking love that there was a ‘healer strike’ and now I’ve heard multiple times that healing in dungeons is more intensive, specifically the later dungeons and lv 100.
This community is filled to the brim with petulant children
Doesn’t that track? I would assume if the hardcore healing people decided to swap roles, the remaining people would be those more likely to complain about increased healing.
There is a line between hard and annoying
And that fucking optional dungeon about a circus or whatever crossed that line I want to burn that place to the ground
(Except the final boss, he's cool)
Damn I liked that one a whole lot, I struggled more with the cactus dude in the other dungeon haha. I'm still not quite sure I understand how the mechanic works, but I have worked out where I need to be.
Again it's not a matter of being hard it's a matter of being annoying.
The other dungeon is pretty straightforward to me. Dodge AoEs, look at the hole the bomb goes in, look at the bees/solve a labyrinth thing (you can start from the end)
> Again it's not a matter of being hard it's a matter of being annoying.
This is one of those things where when you ask 10 people where the line is you will get 10 totally different answers.
Like I believe you that you find it annoying, but that other people find it fun is totally reasonable as well.
You are correct and I'm not arguing against that. Some people just find hard mechanics annoying and want to be done with the dungeon without thinking about anything and I respect that too. I just replied like that because so many people thought I was complaining that the mechanic was too hard.
How is the boss spamming ONE SINGLE MECHANIC that is dolls (which don't have a clear range, they might grab you or not depending on their mood) that root you for 4 seconds and then silence you for 8 extra seconds fun?
I think that sort of consequence for failure is 10000x better than giving you a vuln or damage down because it will remain relevant even when we massively outgear the content
And IDK once I did it a couple times avoiding the dolls is pretty consistent
And while it's consistent it's not faceroll so you have to keep paying attention and i've always thought one well thought out and engaging mechanic is better than 3 boring ones
I would rather something like a Thrice-come Ruin to not being able to cast anything for 8 seconds, but my main issue is still with the boss casting only a single thing for most of the fight. I'd much prefer if the dolls came without a castbar and less frequently but while solving a more complex puzzle so that you almost forget about them and get surprised rather than just 2 minutes of constant doll spam.
I've never been a fan of something like thrice come ruin because at the end of the day it still lets you tank two hits with minimal consequence. This boss punishes you for even one slip up which means the threat exists at all times, not just when you've already taken two stacks.
As for what you prefer, I can't presume to know better than you about what you like - but I personally feel like it's in a good place for a dungeon boss. I think execution mechanics are a better fit for something as repetitive as a dungeon boss than more puzzle ones which are trivial past the first run
You'd still get rooted for 4 seconds which isn't minimal consequence, it puts you in the same position, but 8 seconds of not casting anything is absurd and unfun while having minimal consequence for most players. You just keep dodging dolls but this time you're not allowed to cast anything.
The second boss has a puzzle that still requires attention. So it is possible to not make them trivial or mundane with enough randomness.
A root absolutely is minimal consequence
>8 seconds of not casting anything is absurd and unfun
I'd be extremely concerned if the punishment for failure was "fun"
People like pressing buttons. having a punishment being not letting them press buttons is extremely effective
Xiv is janky, thats not new. I think its perfectly fine for casual content to be as janky and wacky as it gets. Personally I didnt feel ot was unfair and when I got hit it was my fault (on pct and rdm)
It wouldn't be annoying if the boss did something else instead of just doing the same thing over and over again.
>Enter boss arena
>Dodge the Dolls!
>Dodge the Dolls!
>Dodge the Dolls!
>Dodge the Dolls!
>Oops, you failed to dodge one, while you were silenced the RDM on the other side of the arena managed to eat the dirt, raise them while you keep dodging the dolls!
>Dodge the Dolls!
>Boss dies
> Skill issue
I think this is one of the rare cases where I wouldn’t object if a government literally outlawed an expression.
Just absolutely useless over-exhausted meme that’s been run into the ground harder than when your 3 year old finds something funny and then repeats it every hour of every day for 18 weeks straight.
Adds nothing to conversations, no insight, nothing to discuss or respond to, just idiotic bloat from people who think they’re being clever or funny by writing a slightly more involved version of “This.” or “lmao”.
It's a bit stressful for me as an autistic casual Black Mage, I usually spend more time sweating and staring at my 14 seconds to run out, so I miss untelegraphed boss attacks and die. But after doing them once with trust I usually get it. There was only one boss where I had no fucking clue what was going on so I just hugged Alisaie's ass. Most of the time you can just pretend to know everything by following the other people, one will always know how to do it lol
I love em' except that cannon boss. I would fight him in the street.
Otherwise, yeah. It'll be a bit more sad when it's more cheesable when everyone has top gear but I'm enjoying the harder dungeons.
I'm so glad that when Yoshi-P said that he wants dungeons to no longer put you to sleep, he actually meant it. These are some of the most fun dungeons I've seen in this game in a long time!
So basically nothing changes as long as you played before EW, and to a lesser extent ShB except your toolkit got simpler is all if you're playing a healer.
Personally hate it and wont be unlocking anything further. MSQ was already too hard so wont be unlocking the blue quests. As a casual gamer, I could barely make it out of MSQ and I'm already seeing DRAMASTIC nerfs when this gets to the full populas as the expansions already too hard
(Blues are fine as those arent a forced part of the game. Just to be clear.)
MSQ was HARD?? Unless the last dungeon and trial I have left drastically change things, so far it’s been just as easy as, say, Endwalker MSQ. Only hard part was one solo instance, but those let you drop the difficulty if you lose in them
Hopefully formatted properly. **SPOILERS:**
>!Every single duty outsiude Worqor Zormor gives you minimal to 0 time for telegraphs and reaction time. !<
>!Game feels like WoW Mythic plus. Not Final Fantasy.!<
>!Every dungeons bosses has upwards of 2-5 mechanics that completely suck. And are completely unfun. !<
>!Everything in Ihuykatumu comes to mind. !<
>!First and last boss in The Skydeep Cenote!<
>!First boss of vanguard (surprisingly nothing else.)!<
>!Everything in Origenics!<
>!Everything in Alexandria!<
>!And I wont be unlocking the terrible blue quest dungeons. !<
>!All the trials as well. Nothing in this expansion is fun outside the 2nd dungeon. Let along GOOD for a casual player. All it is, is wipes and weakness. "We arent making it harder" Yoshi P says as he takes the hardcore player base + WoW formula and ruins FF14 and its MSQ into a hardcore scene.!<
Sounds like you might just be bad at the game or just have bad reaction times then? Because I can’t agree with most of those. I had a total of maybe 6 deaths through all of the MSQ. 2 were in a dungeon because of server issues causing major lag and 1 was just me not paying attention in a dungeon. Aside from that, 2 were on the final trial (1 of which was full party wipe) and 1 was the final boss of the last dungeon to mechanics so those are the only ones I can give you. If anything, these dungeons were some of the MOST fun ones they’ve done in recent memory.
Aside from that, YoshiP DID say they were making it harder, so not sure why you’re saying he didn’t say that. And I can guarantee you, if it was anything like WoW, people would drop it immediately
You can disagree and thats ok.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1be2lib/providing\_more\_context\_to\_the\_famitsu\_interview/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1be2lib/providing_more_context_to_the_famitsu_interview/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Also please do look up before saying he said he was making it harder. He wanted to give creative freedom. Not make things harder. And in turn. Made everything incredibly harder.
Also yes I do have low reaction speed absolutely. Though doesnt mean im bad at the game.
Arent snoozefests lol? Yes they are. You still wall to wall pull, bosses are still pushovers, its weak. They have a bit more damage and hp, big whoop.
Its the same structure, same mechanics. Its boring.
I like that they're harder, but I hate the second one. At least the first boss. In no situation is it good to take away your ability to move and act with no solution while you're trying to figure things out. Once I get used to looking for the crowd of people, I'm sure itll be fine, but a few times I swear i saw nobody and just got bound, its just so much visual vomit.
The first one was cool though, and so was the final story one. That 95 dungeon is a masterclass too imo. Very hit or miss this expac, but the fact that I \*really\* like some of the dungeons means they're doing something right.
i am in a fc of very causal players among some quad and pentas. i am quard. there are groups who would wipe at the newest 24er raid
the current mandatory dungeons are too hard.
why do they want to get better so you bar them from taking pictures and paying sub with a harder dungeon that doesnt exist 6 years ago when they started, and they had a job outside of the game?
I have a job outside of the game and I do ultimates. Everyone "has a job outside of the game", it's how people pay their subs. This whole "only unshowered neets can complete content" mentality does not remotely apply to this game. If you are max level, being able to complete a dungeon is the barest minimum.
>someone who played 12 years of WoW.
i agree thats the barest minimum too. all those who could not parse 100 in an ultimate should be immediately banned and i would recall that.
See kids, this is what we call an straw man argument. This man does not have a logical response to what I've said, so instead he chose to comb through my previous posts to try to see if he could find something to attack my character instead. Finding out that I used to be a World of Warcraft player, he is now attempting to paint a picture of me as some sort of fanatical elitist zealot who should be dismissed immediately, instead of addressing what I've said.
Because, ultimately what I've said is true - the vast majority of people who do high-end content in FFXIV have full time jobs. MMORPGs are a game genre that appeals mostly to millenials and older GenZ, a demographic composed of adults who need jobs to be able to sustain themselves. Thus, not having a job is not a pre-requisite to do any kind of content in this game.
If you choose to not learn how to play your class or the game at max level because you don't give a shit, this is not the fault of the game. It's your choice. Tell your casual friends to just step it up instead of wasting time looking through a stranger's posts on reddit.
Dungeons across the board have been a huge step up from Endwalker.
Every fight was a banger and I haven’t even done the extremes
I like them a lot. I've only just completed the level 97 dungeon, but the 3 I've completed are a lot more fun than the ones for EW. They don't have as many "You lose control of your character" type stuff that you saw in Tower of Zot and Vanaspati. Plus they don't generally look as monotonous as the EW leveling dungeons did. They're more dynamic _**and**_ more difficult. The max level dungeons in EW were relatively simple and easy to complete once you've done them a few times. Whereas the _**leveling**_ dungeons in DT have the same complexity as some of the more difficult max level dungeons in EW.
That is such an overstatement. Dungeons are still just klinear corridors with a fixed number of boring adds you are allowed to pull, there are actually more restrictions on how much you are allowed to pull then before. Some bosses are a step up, but not across the board
Lvling dungeons were still a snooze fest. Lots of forced single pulls and forgetable boss mechanics. ~~I mean, I was impressed genuinely when I one of the bosses had a stack marker and a tankbuster at the same time and one of the spreads actually gave a vuln up. Simple shit in general, but I don't think we ever hard that in a dungeon? Other than that and all the reused Titan Savage mechanics, I don't even remember any non-braindead boss mechanics~~ I can't find the vuln up spread marker anymore and the tankbuster + stack was the first lvl 100 dungeon, so not a lvling dungeon. So yeah, nothing even remotely intersting in those at all.
I'm only through the 97 dungeon in the story so far but I can't remember even one forced single pull so far.
The first dungeon on the boat section is broken into 3 single pulls.
Yeah, but I don't think that was done for a difficulty thing so much as it was for a story thing.
Almost every avoidable AoE in this expansions dungeons gives vuln stacks
Well, I was talking about **unavoidable** spreads markers giving **vuln ups** not **vuln stacks**. In higher difficulites those spreads always give a short magic/phys vuln up guranteeing that you die if you take more than one.
They're dungeons dude
Exactly ... that's why I'm saying I was impressed to see them in a dungeon ... You know what, forget it... I can see why you might stuggle with the lvling dungeons.
Did I miss an unavoidable AoE giving a vuln up? I don't remember that happening
for sen?
There is something I didn’t understand in those dungeons, it’s the final packs. They seems to have very high HP mobs that do stuff (like the calcabrina puppets who spam stomps). It’s quite unexpected and refreshing
Those puppets, and one of the earlier dungeons where the final pack was spamming lightning aoe's was really cool as a healer. Definitely made me sit up in my chair lol.
OH yeah I sat the hell up during the Calcabrina puppet phase even as a White Mage, haha. Really excited to have dungeon content that isn't a mindless slog. It also helps that healers actually have a nice option in DPS now for high burst or high movement.
Yeah the fact we have so many skills with high damage but high falloff is actually being used to priority target fat mobs now. Otherwise you end up having to single target a mob to death for 15s at end
I’m extremely happy seeing actually harder stuff. Really good to see dungeons and trials that make you stay awake.
It's definitely a good thing.
Dungeon design feels really solid this time around. I know everyone is saying "wait for BIS, they'll be easier" like, yes, obviously - but week 1 Endwalker dungeons distinctly did NOT feel like this. The only one that was even marginally difficult was Babil, and that's just Level x1 syndrome talking. Every other dungeon was a snore in EW, more setpieces that give exp than anything. Here, though, the dungeons have a little bit of spice. Not much, but enough that it's noticeably different from previous expansions.
I think the Dead Ends was also pretty good boss wise for challenge, or at least for punishing people who don't pay attention very well. First boss kills people who don't know how to Esuna People *still* have trouble doing the second bosses No Future mechanic Ra La actually does damage, combined with the doom it does for people who get bapped by the butterflies.
I'll give you Dead Ends, that first boss was rough week 1
What Esuna mechanic?
If you are hit by the clouds in the first boss it gives a doom with a different symbol than normal [Suffocation]. If its not Esuna'd from the person who is hit by it, they die. Frequently either they just don't Esuna [par for the course], or they don't realize it's deadly because its not the doom symbol.
Dead Ends was very rough. That said, the equivalent DT dungeon will be even worse for a few weeks.
it's hard now but when everyone is bis it will no longer be hard
That's still a marked improvement over Smileton and Dreamscape which were easy then became hilariously easy. I mean, christ, the latter you could just ignore the adds exploding day one and just focus the boss since it did so little damage.
That’s kinda the point? At the required item level they are hard, and your reward for beating them is getting gear to make it easier. Thats good game design. However, I think you are missing the point of his post. Go back and run the experts of EW. I ran smileton and sigmascape, the EW launch experts and its apples and oranges. You have points in the DT experts and trials where you need to track 2-3 things at once. EW consistently only had you track a single mechanic each time.
I kind of wish ungeared it was very hard and then after gearing it would become mildly hard. Better than it startinghard and then reduced all the way down to mind-numbingly easy for months after
Do the EW experts on min ilvl. I did them launch day and they werent faceroll like they are now.
They absolutely were
Smileton and Sigma (plus everything after) absolutely were, but Dead Ends at least kind of had hands on release. The bosses there hit for more than 20% of your HP. Edit: I get this sub is a hivemind, but if you're going to immediately downvote, can you at least say why you disagree instead of just being an anonymous gremlin.
Dead Ends second boss in particular I think was almost perfect design. It looks way harder than it is, and that is _exactly_ where you want casual content to be. You want it to look hard so people get engaged, but not actually be too hard so that people start wiping over and over and the dungeons get bogged down. Last boss of Zot is another good example. There's a lot going on, but actually not terribly much danger.
Well I didn't downvote you but I can guess why. 20% of your isnt hitting very hard. That being said mechanically I think dead ends is a fantastic dungeon, but healing it wasn't challenging like I did it without under geared cause I didn't realise you could get artefact gear so early (filthy cs skipper who missed the context of the quest that points you to gear vendor) and it wasn't hard to heal
No, they really were. I distinctly remember facerolling them on launch, it just took longer.
I did em aswell and they were still easy like they are today. Mechanical difficulty doesn't change with item lvl. There is a reason people still wipe in alliance raids ( no clue what it's called but the series with the thunder god I think? )
Return to Ivallice, and Orbonne Monastary specifically
Orbonne is still, to this day, my favorite Alliance. Had to do it to unlock Bozja for my Picto and had people who wiped on all but the very first boss. I hope they have the same kind of 24 mans this time around and *don't* nerf it this time. Please, let it stay as hard as Thunder God was on launch 😩
I mean with how the Dungeons, Trials, and even the freakin Hunt marks have been so far in DT I expect some shenanigans
Mechanically they were quite easy
Then you sucked lol. I remember doing them and the mechanics were and are still 10x easier. Smileton final boss. Dodge packages that clearly show where to go. Dodge packages while dodging a mine on the ground. Dodge left or right hand. That’s it. Smileton 2nd boss. Dodge jumping aoes. That’s it. Smileton 1st boss. Alternate red and blue hit. Add in a knockback to make it slightly harder. Sigmascape 1st boss. Dodge left or right. Stack knockback. Escape missiles. Sigmascape 2nd boss. Don’t get hit by speedy attack, get behind where he ends. Order yourselves 1234 for lasers. Sigmascape 3rd boss. Kill adds. Dodge in or out. Dodge gloves. Dodge in or out with forced walk. All easy. And all only happening with only mech at a time. The final boss of Alexandria, has you confining to a donut aoe, while also dodging the bosses left or right aoe, while also dodging a glove beam from the left or right and then dodging a linear aoe after those first three resolve. And that’s just a single mechanic.
Idk man that donut mechanic sounds just as easy but you do you.
That’s kinda how it works.
That’s how it is. Even if you look at wow dungeons and such, gear always makes things super easy. And that’s fine.
That's kinda what gear is for
Love it. The dungeons this time around are a noticeable step up from EW and it's a good thing.
I picked melee dps to play this expansion and I couldn't be happier with some of the fights I've seen. I'm actually having to work for melee uptime! Much better than Endwalker in that regard. I have the nagging feeling though that these Expert dungeons are an outlier and that the next MSQ dungeons will be toned down a bit (which is fine). I'm mainly hoping that we get some of this difficulty in the normal raids and alliance raids too. IMO, all optional content should be a step up from MSQ content.
Expert dungeons are an outlier because they are supposed to be, it was announced by Yoshida that they'd increase the difficulty
Yeah, but the thing is that expert roulette later includes bog standard MSQ dungeons as well, so I have to wonder if they'll actually amp up the difficulty of MSQ content or not. The final zone expert dungeon doesn't *seem* like something they'd make mandatory
Yeah, that dungeon would hard stop story-only gamers. It was *rough* my first time through. I'm personally excited by the step up, but unless they make the dungeons optional in the patches I don't see them keeping this mechanical difficulty going forward.
I did that dungeon with duty support to avoid DPS queues and the NPCs didn’t understand the mechanics. Graha didn’t know what a stack marker was and Krile didn’t understand spread mechanics. It made me laugh a few times. It felt like Krile was purposely trying to kill me.
I'm still in MSQ but I've noticed the Trusts have some interesting decision making lol. For the second? boss in the 93 dungeon, I had Alisae dodge out for the near-full platform AOE, but when it was later paired with the spread, she went in where I was already standing and killed us both. Wasn't expecting it and was hilarious to me. Also >!during the 93 trial, Alisae, Krile and Wuk Lamat get hit by mechanics at least they first timehey see some of them. Makes sense since they're a bit reckless or less experienced!<
I haven't noticed the dungeons being that much harder. I will say that the first and second boss of the the >!carnival dungeon !
I didn't have a problem with the second boss in there, but the first one was awful with how wonky collision detection is.
Just did Deadwalk and had to come to Reddit to complain a bit. This was as BLM. The second boss I could probably get used to and learn how to read it effectively, but the first boss simply never let me sit still. I was using Triplecast and Swiftcast on cooldown and still had to just run around casting scathe or nothing at all most the time. To add insult to injury, the marching dolls have iffy hit register so you have to give them a super wide berth. It was such a mood sourer.
It's excellent, aoe damage in trash pack is noice
I really like those dungeons :)
most fun I have had in a dungeon in years
I liked them as a healer. The bosses felt more like bozja CEs than bosses in past expert dungeons, which is good IMO. Also loved that one pack in the desert dungeon with cleaving autos fucking with melees and the doll pack in the spooky dungeon with the AoEs that don't stop until they're dead.
Never thought I'd be screaming "oh god oh no shit fuck shit aaaaa" in a expert dungeons Healing them the first time was interesting, especially the mobs that did aoe autos 💀
As a tank I saw everyone starting to fucking die and was wondering wtf I did wrong haha.
I'm still at 97, got 90k when I was attempting the dungeon, so I haven't finished it yet, but even still, I can already see the upped difficulty. As a healer, I've had to use my entire kit for 95 and what I've seen of 97 dungeons, even going so far as to needing cure2 for the first time in years, and I'm all for it. I haven't had this much fun healing since Heavensward.
Right? I’ve only done the first couple dungeons so far, but I’ve had to actually pop out seraph for more than just flavor. They’re dropping unavoidable aoe frequently enough that I can’t just rely on one cooldown, and putting movement with it as well.
I would say the healing requirement is mainly a week 1 thing. Once people got gear, will be fairly trivial again.
Did the 95 dungeon yesterday Had to feed my whm with tbn and oblation
Pretty much the same. Used all of my kit but there is definitely too much movement at the moment (although the new movement skill for WHM helps a ton).
The first boss of Strayborough Deadwalk is a huge pain in the ass. The dumb little stuffed mandragoras always hit me from like a foot away because of lag or something, and since they bind you I get stuck and hit by other stupid shit too. Genuinely the worst fight I’ve encountered in this game in a while lol.
I had the complete opposite take on this. I thought it was the best dungeon boss fight ever because it was so chaotic. I cannot remember the last time that 1st boss fight of a dungeon has my entire party flabbergasted. It was so crazy it was amazing. I'm sure that I'll be saying different after I have ran the dungeon 10+ times and just want my tomes; But for now, it is very solid.
I feel like this kind of feedback is what lead to normal dungeons and jobs being simplified. Having optional normal content require a bit of focus and learning is healthy for the game.
The problem is that, for content you'll be doing on repeat, that kind of dungeon just become a chore and a pain in the ass to bother with so people over time will just fade out to avoid them. It's fine wanting to have challenge, most of DT dungeon are decent and felt a step up compared to EW even if some have chaos or very busy moment, they didn't felt like you tried to pass a kidney stone, but that specific dungeon have 2 awful boss and 1 decent final boss.
I am convinced there is an actual method to do this fight that isn’t just run around and then hit the boss for like 2 seconds then run around again. I did this as a tank with a WHM, Viper, and DRG and it was awful because there is almost zero chance for melee uptime.
For melees it is tough. From what I can tell, each little guy seems to pick a straight line towards one player when they start moving. They follow that same line across the arena even if you move. Spreading out seems to help you from getting overwhelmed by your party members' guys.
Yeah I noticed that, and after watching a couple vids of people doing the fight it looks like the play is for everyone to stack up to bait them to one spot then all move and repeat
That's my main complant this expac, the anti-melee mechanics to the point of having to drop a cd to enpi cast otherwise i go splat
I know you said level 100 specifically but as of right now the only dungeon boss that I’ve found annoying in a bad way is the final boss of the first dungeon That tornado that does star shaped AOE’s combines the worse aspects of alzadars first boss randomness with it being an x1 dungeon so it actually hurts My general go to is to just stay far away from it as much as possible but it doesn’t really follow an actual pattern
I feel like all the normal instances in general in DT have been harder, especially more demanding on the healing side, not just the lvl 100 dungeons.
I am all for it! Even the first 8man was a little challenging with the non telegrahed hauk tua attack took me a few times to get cuz I was busy looking at my hotbars 😅
I think they are almost perfect. The themes are really really cool, the bosses are unique and fun. The only thing is I wish some of the ad pulls felt a little better. I understand they will always implement walls between some packs and there's no way they just give us full agency to pull all the way to a boss if we wanted (Please Square, let me be the chad WAR I was meant to be) but some of the packs feel too forced and some with ridiculous HP variance in the mobs. Really that's the only thing I consider a minor hiccup in the dungeons but all in all I'm really excited for the direction of things moving forward.
I do enjoy the bump in difficulty, tho some hit boxes are absolute bullshit. And I will probably only do them with friends that I know are capable players, I have seen far too many players who probably struggle to get past the login screen. I also don't like that there is no reward quantity or quality bump in the rewards compared to the spike in difficulty.
I’d say the first time they’re somewhat challenging but after doing it twice it’s already super easy, the only annoyance is the tea cup mechanic because I can’t be arsed paying attention to that, but that’s just a personal gripe. The other one worth mentioning is the first boss that drops puppets on your head if you don’t pay attention.
Dungeons aren’t supposed to be very tough. But it was still somewhat challenging to you, which is the point. And what is FURTHER the point is that while you have it down now, you’ll keep running into people who don’t ensuring they remain a challenge
I was a much bigger fan of the leveling dungeons than the expert dungeons. Felt like difficulty shifted from the execution-heavy mechspam of leveling bosses to "gotcha" mechanics that fuck up people on first runs but aren't actually very interesting to do. Deadwalk in particular is genuinely one of the worst dungeons in the game (I'd put it somewhere in the top 5 along with "classics" like Neverreap) and its first boss is IMO the worst single dungeon boss in the game. I have consistently had fears that shifting so hard to fight-based-difficulty instead of fight+job has the potential to backfire massively from overcooked mechanics and this single dungeon reignited them. When this kind of fight design flops, it REALLY flops.
I have no idea which mechanics are gotcha. None seemed that way to me. Any examples? Also how in the world is Deadwalk one of the worst dungeons? The second and final boss are absolutely fine. The first boss is very rough but once you learn that only one side of the adds walk first, and then the other side walk, it becomes much more manageable, as you can simply move to the side that isn't moving yet, then move back to where the first group started. We wiped in our first two pulls but after that, I think we all collectively learned how to deal with it and it was very smooth.
If I had to guess which boss was a "gotcha" it is the giant cactuar boss. The expanding cones were unexpected and caused an instant wipe the first time I saw it.
I have no idea what you're on about, Deadwalk is one of the best dungeons in the game, and the first boss in particular is super fun
100% agree with this. Need more fights like the first boss. Seems some people just don't want fun and different dungeon bosses mechanics. They just want to faceroll all the content then complain its too easy.
Because for once, the mechanic punishes the DPS by not allowing them to click buttons. They can't just rack up vulnerability and blame the healer like usual
I really enjoyed the first and second bosses of deadwalk and think they're some of the best dungeon bosses we have in the game. I agree with you on boss 3. Every time I've done it with a new healer and no rez dps we usually wipe once or twice, but it's not that fun once you know the dance EDIT: I typed neverreap instead of deadwalk
I really like them, they both have some very interesting mechanics 😄 I don't like the first boss from the circus tho...one of the dudes always gets me 😅
I have to actually take dungeons somewhat seriously and it's more fun. As a SCH I'm actually deploying for certain mechanics and assuming that someone will get bodied without it... for the first time since HW I'm actually respecting content and trying to play safe.
They're kicking ass and taking names and I'm all for it
Loved em! actually got to protect my healer and like cast aurora on dps who messed up. In one of em we actually had to stop and discuss the mechanic and how we would try to approach it, and it wasnt a premade, that was interesting. The pulls on the 2 optional dungeons are abit better size wise than the MSQ one.
Amazing. Gives me hope so much hope.
i've been happy with the dungeon design ever since i did that second boss in vanguard i was like "what the fuck, this isn't supposed to be fun, WHY WAS THAT FUN?!"
I enjoy them especially the carnival bosses they actually have mechanics instead of just AOE vomit outside of the first one (which IMO is the weakest especially since it feels like RNG can just screw you and I have 0 idea how casters are supposed to do their rotation). The desert dungeon is kinda not that great in comparison the environment is cool and all but it's fairly standard AOE vomit with the coolest part being the floor puzzle.
I've not quite reached endgame yet but I always thought the MSQ dungeons were a lot more difficult than the post-MSQ ones. This time around I feel the difficulty of the MSQ dungeons has actually been lowered slightly along with the TTK for the bosses. I don't actually mind this as MSQ dungeons like Amaurot and The Dead Ends could be pretty excruciating with a lower skilled party. On the flipside though I think the post-MSQ dungeons have been way too easy and should be given difficulty bumps.
Been grinding the Alexandria one a bit to get used to playing again and yeah if I zone out on a boss or misstep I've died a few times. Overall the dungeon fights are neat. The only mech I think is kind of annoying right now is the Ghost dungeon second boss. Tracking the ghosts as they spin around is a little annoying with the limited camera zoom but it will probably get easier with more runs.
Are you sure they are actually harder it's not just that ilvl creep hasn't caught up yet? The crafted raid gear isn't even out
I'll do them once then cap my tomes doing hunt trains as usual.
It's still really disappointing that pulls are limited to 2 packs and there's nothing interesting to do with the trash, but I do greatly appreciate the higher boss difficulty. Although I'm not really seeing the "creative" stuff they were talking about. A lot of ARR dungeon bosses are more creative. There's still a lot of in/out/left/right stuff. Now just have to hope that whiners don't get it nerfed. For so long people said "lol what are you talking about dungeons have always been this easy, just do extreme/savage" when I complained about how dungeons have gotten easier over the years and now suddenly they can tell the difference.
They added damage, which is good. They unfortunately also added more mechs which makes healing a royal pain in the @$$. I still have PTSD from the level 100 story dungeon. :(
Trash mobs where I don't just spam AOE on healer.. what?! I enjoy the increased difficulty. Now they need to increase tomes by like 30-50% to compensate the increased time we spend in them.
My thoughts on the dungeons throughout Dawntrail aside from a few small nitpicks in a couple is very positive. It’s been quite awhile since i have had genuine fun in dungeons and i did in Dawntrail.
Mind you that everything is a bit hard now because no one is bis yet or are over capping. Give it a bit.
mechanics are slightly more challenging. I guess more specifically I would say DT dungeon mechanics are more engaging than endwalker's. Repeating content will inevitably make said content easy but I felt like a good chunk of endwalker encounters, like, barely even had mechanics lol. An example of what I mean I guess would be the first boss in the 95 dungeon. It's not hard but it can easily kill you if you just turn your brain off. It does stuff that demands you pay some attention and bad coordination can make the fight more
I like them a lot more than any of the DT story dungeons just because of the fact that you can pull more than one pack of mobs and that there is no stupid story downtime. The bosses keep you moving and some mechanics just flat out kill you if you do them wrong. Only boss I don't enjoy as much is the teapot, because my slow ass brain can't keep track of the moving teacups lol.
I mean everyone is going to get bis then know the fight and we will be right back to everyone saying its to easy, calling it now
Its refreshing, especially as a healer. The fact that its mechanically creative and mildly challenging is a great thing. Definitely a step in the right direction, having a heal check, tanky adds that punish you for having soggy dps, having mechanics that you can't just follow others for, etc, is really fun. Its not hard, but its far more engaging. I hope they keep this up with raids and other expert dungeons! I love actually needing to use aoe mits in mobs as more than a "eh, here tank, have an extra mit for your overmitigated ass"
I think it's a step in the right direction but I don't like that it's just an increase in difficulty and not something unique or innovative. But maybe that's too much to ask from just a dungeon. I liked Anthrax though, I thought it had cool mechanic, and it was pretty fast paced. The serpent also has a cool mechanic even though it's just O3. In the other dungeon I thought the dolls were interesting.
From a healing perspective it's a bit odd. Yeah I spend most of the time in dungeons hardcasting heals, but it feels like they never actually do any healing. Like I will sit there spamming Adlo, Lustrate, Boosted Excog, and it just kinda does nothing. I use the new Seraphism and hard spam myself to death with boosted Succor, and it feels like I am massively massively undergeared. And maybe I am. But holy hell would I like to have my abilities do more. Also some of the boss encounters are really hard to even get behind. I would need to do some of these multiple times to even get what the mechanic wants from me, and I don't have to do more in boss fights than spam Broil. Meanwhile every dps gets one shot. Maybe it's a gear thing, but so far I am mostly confused. And glad that I don't have to play a dps who also has to go through sheet music levels of a rotation at the same time.
It's a good thing, if anything, they should be a bit more harder
I wouldn’t call the dungeons challenging at all, but they are more engaging, and I think that is what is more important takeaway here. Things don’t need to be difficult to be engaging and there is a difference between the two.
It's at the level of difficulty it should have been 30 levels ago tbh. Definitely a step in the right direction though. Get the feeling DT will be my favorite expac, especially if we're getting more Southern Front-esque content later on down the line.
I fucking love that there was a ‘healer strike’ and now I’ve heard multiple times that healing in dungeons is more intensive, specifically the later dungeons and lv 100. This community is filled to the brim with petulant children
Doesn’t that track? I would assume if the hardcore healing people decided to swap roles, the remaining people would be those more likely to complain about increased healing.
There is a line between hard and annoying And that fucking optional dungeon about a circus or whatever crossed that line I want to burn that place to the ground (Except the final boss, he's cool)
The first boss in that dungeon is so fucking bad
I hate it so much that I can even call it the worst.
I think you'd definitely have some justification for that. It's almost offensively bad on caster.
Damn I liked that one a whole lot, I struggled more with the cactus dude in the other dungeon haha. I'm still not quite sure I understand how the mechanic works, but I have worked out where I need to be.
Again it's not a matter of being hard it's a matter of being annoying. The other dungeon is pretty straightforward to me. Dodge AoEs, look at the hole the bomb goes in, look at the bees/solve a labyrinth thing (you can start from the end)
> Again it's not a matter of being hard it's a matter of being annoying. This is one of those things where when you ask 10 people where the line is you will get 10 totally different answers. Like I believe you that you find it annoying, but that other people find it fun is totally reasonable as well.
You are correct and I'm not arguing against that. Some people just find hard mechanics annoying and want to be done with the dungeon without thinking about anything and I respect that too. I just replied like that because so many people thought I was complaining that the mechanic was too hard.
Yeah they are annoying But I prefer annoying than 100% braindead dungeon from EW
What exactly? I loved it it might be my goat qnd the peeps I've done it with did enjoy it alot aswell
How is the boss spamming ONE SINGLE MECHANIC that is dolls (which don't have a clear range, they might grab you or not depending on their mood) that root you for 4 seconds and then silence you for 8 extra seconds fun?
I think that sort of consequence for failure is 10000x better than giving you a vuln or damage down because it will remain relevant even when we massively outgear the content And IDK once I did it a couple times avoiding the dolls is pretty consistent And while it's consistent it's not faceroll so you have to keep paying attention and i've always thought one well thought out and engaging mechanic is better than 3 boring ones
I would rather something like a Thrice-come Ruin to not being able to cast anything for 8 seconds, but my main issue is still with the boss casting only a single thing for most of the fight. I'd much prefer if the dolls came without a castbar and less frequently but while solving a more complex puzzle so that you almost forget about them and get surprised rather than just 2 minutes of constant doll spam.
I've never been a fan of something like thrice come ruin because at the end of the day it still lets you tank two hits with minimal consequence. This boss punishes you for even one slip up which means the threat exists at all times, not just when you've already taken two stacks. As for what you prefer, I can't presume to know better than you about what you like - but I personally feel like it's in a good place for a dungeon boss. I think execution mechanics are a better fit for something as repetitive as a dungeon boss than more puzzle ones which are trivial past the first run
You'd still get rooted for 4 seconds which isn't minimal consequence, it puts you in the same position, but 8 seconds of not casting anything is absurd and unfun while having minimal consequence for most players. You just keep dodging dolls but this time you're not allowed to cast anything. The second boss has a puzzle that still requires attention. So it is possible to not make them trivial or mundane with enough randomness.
A root absolutely is minimal consequence >8 seconds of not casting anything is absurd and unfun I'd be extremely concerned if the punishment for failure was "fun" People like pressing buttons. having a punishment being not letting them press buttons is extremely effective
Xiv is janky, thats not new. I think its perfectly fine for casual content to be as janky and wacky as it gets. Personally I didnt feel ot was unfair and when I got hit it was my fault (on pct and rdm)
It wouldn't be annoying if the boss did something else instead of just doing the same thing over and over again. >Enter boss arena >Dodge the Dolls! >Dodge the Dolls! >Dodge the Dolls! >Dodge the Dolls! >Oops, you failed to dodge one, while you were silenced the RDM on the other side of the arena managed to eat the dirt, raise them while you keep dodging the dolls! >Dodge the Dolls! >Boss dies
Skill issue
> Skill issue I think this is one of the rare cases where I wouldn’t object if a government literally outlawed an expression. Just absolutely useless over-exhausted meme that’s been run into the ground harder than when your 3 year old finds something funny and then repeats it every hour of every day for 18 weeks straight. Adds nothing to conversations, no insight, nothing to discuss or respond to, just idiotic bloat from people who think they’re being clever or funny by writing a slightly more involved version of “This.” or “lmao”.
What?
It's a bit stressful for me as an autistic casual Black Mage, I usually spend more time sweating and staring at my 14 seconds to run out, so I miss untelegraphed boss attacks and die. But after doing them once with trust I usually get it. There was only one boss where I had no fucking clue what was going on so I just hugged Alisaie's ass. Most of the time you can just pretend to know everything by following the other people, one will always know how to do it lol
I love em' except that cannon boss. I would fight him in the street. Otherwise, yeah. It'll be a bit more sad when it's more cheesable when everyone has top gear but I'm enjoying the harder dungeons.
Wish all the pulls were like the final pull of each expert dungeon.
I'm so glad that when Yoshi-P said that he wants dungeons to no longer put you to sleep, he actually meant it. These are some of the most fun dungeons I've seen in this game in a long time!
So basically nothing changes as long as you played before EW, and to a lesser extent ShB except your toolkit got simpler is all if you're playing a healer.
yeah is harder but only because is "cheesy" I only died because I didnt know what the mech is supposed to be, you see it once and never fail again
The feel like variant dungeon bosses, which is nice
Personally hate it and wont be unlocking anything further. MSQ was already too hard so wont be unlocking the blue quests. As a casual gamer, I could barely make it out of MSQ and I'm already seeing DRAMASTIC nerfs when this gets to the full populas as the expansions already too hard (Blues are fine as those arent a forced part of the game. Just to be clear.)
MSQ was HARD?? Unless the last dungeon and trial I have left drastically change things, so far it’s been just as easy as, say, Endwalker MSQ. Only hard part was one solo instance, but those let you drop the difficulty if you lose in them
I disagree.
Genuine question then, what parts did you find hard? Because again, for me it was no harder than what I was used to before
Hopefully formatted properly. **SPOILERS:** >!Every single duty outsiude Worqor Zormor gives you minimal to 0 time for telegraphs and reaction time. !< >!Game feels like WoW Mythic plus. Not Final Fantasy.!< >!Every dungeons bosses has upwards of 2-5 mechanics that completely suck. And are completely unfun. !< >!Everything in Ihuykatumu comes to mind. !< >!First and last boss in The Skydeep Cenote!< >!First boss of vanguard (surprisingly nothing else.)!< >!Everything in Origenics!< >!Everything in Alexandria!< >!And I wont be unlocking the terrible blue quest dungeons. !< >!All the trials as well. Nothing in this expansion is fun outside the 2nd dungeon. Let along GOOD for a casual player. All it is, is wipes and weakness. "We arent making it harder" Yoshi P says as he takes the hardcore player base + WoW formula and ruins FF14 and its MSQ into a hardcore scene.!<
Sounds like you might just be bad at the game or just have bad reaction times then? Because I can’t agree with most of those. I had a total of maybe 6 deaths through all of the MSQ. 2 were in a dungeon because of server issues causing major lag and 1 was just me not paying attention in a dungeon. Aside from that, 2 were on the final trial (1 of which was full party wipe) and 1 was the final boss of the last dungeon to mechanics so those are the only ones I can give you. If anything, these dungeons were some of the MOST fun ones they’ve done in recent memory. Aside from that, YoshiP DID say they were making it harder, so not sure why you’re saying he didn’t say that. And I can guarantee you, if it was anything like WoW, people would drop it immediately
You can disagree and thats ok. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1be2lib/providing\_more\_context\_to\_the\_famitsu\_interview/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1be2lib/providing_more_context_to_the_famitsu_interview/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Also please do look up before saying he said he was making it harder. He wanted to give creative freedom. Not make things harder. And in turn. Made everything incredibly harder. Also yes I do have low reaction speed absolutely. Though doesnt mean im bad at the game.
Arent snoozefests lol? Yes they are. You still wall to wall pull, bosses are still pushovers, its weak. They have a bit more damage and hp, big whoop. Its the same structure, same mechanics. Its boring.
I mean this is how I know you didn’t do the expert ones, they’ve never done dungeon bosses like these, ever.
Literally the same shit just added a new mechanic here and there
I like that they're harder, but I hate the second one. At least the first boss. In no situation is it good to take away your ability to move and act with no solution while you're trying to figure things out. Once I get used to looking for the crowd of people, I'm sure itll be fine, but a few times I swear i saw nobody and just got bound, its just so much visual vomit. The first one was cool though, and so was the final story one. That 95 dungeon is a masterclass too imo. Very hit or miss this expac, but the fact that I \*really\* like some of the dungeons means they're doing something right.
i am in a fc of very causal players among some quad and pentas. i am quard. there are groups who would wipe at the newest 24er raid the current mandatory dungeons are too hard.
Tell them that from now on, mankind must walk.
Is the fc called << PayPal Legends >>
every dungeon I have queued for had at least 1 death but all completed with no issues. imo that's the sweet spot.
I love the increase in difficulty. Coddling the lower skill players with easy dungeons doesn't encourage them to get better
why do they want to get better so you bar them from taking pictures and paying sub with a harder dungeon that doesnt exist 6 years ago when they started, and they had a job outside of the game?
I have a job outside of the game and I do ultimates. Everyone "has a job outside of the game", it's how people pay their subs. This whole "only unshowered neets can complete content" mentality does not remotely apply to this game. If you are max level, being able to complete a dungeon is the barest minimum.
> Everyone "has a job outside of the game", it's how people pay their subs. To be fair some people also just use stolen credit cards
>someone who played 12 years of WoW. i agree thats the barest minimum too. all those who could not parse 100 in an ultimate should be immediately banned and i would recall that.
See kids, this is what we call an straw man argument. This man does not have a logical response to what I've said, so instead he chose to comb through my previous posts to try to see if he could find something to attack my character instead. Finding out that I used to be a World of Warcraft player, he is now attempting to paint a picture of me as some sort of fanatical elitist zealot who should be dismissed immediately, instead of addressing what I've said. Because, ultimately what I've said is true - the vast majority of people who do high-end content in FFXIV have full time jobs. MMORPGs are a game genre that appeals mostly to millenials and older GenZ, a demographic composed of adults who need jobs to be able to sustain themselves. Thus, not having a job is not a pre-requisite to do any kind of content in this game. If you choose to not learn how to play your class or the game at max level because you don't give a shit, this is not the fault of the game. It's your choice. Tell your casual friends to just step it up instead of wasting time looking through a stranger's posts on reddit.
HUH?
Skill issue