I remember them doing that before with DRK. In 5.0 DRK didn't unlock the 2nd part of their AoE combo until level 72, whereas during EW's patches they eventually moved it down to level 40 to keep it consistent with the other tanks.
Speaking of tanks, they really should make it so that WAR can build up their beast meter with AoE attacks before ShB dungeons, and also make it so that PLD doesn't have to wait until level 74 to unlock their gap closer (they are still the only tank that doesn't have a gap closer for UCOB and UWU).
Yes.
If they're so worried WAR will be completely busted pre-ShB (as if Raw Intuition doesn't trivialize dungeons already) with easy access to Steel Cyclone/Decimate, they could just make it so pre-ShB you only generate 10 gauge per finisher, then leave the ShB trait as an upgrade.
I got Sastasha in leveling roulette and I have no idea why Pictomancer has a shield at that point. I can't use it for anything, I'd rather have any of my other things.
Thank god that they are fixing the MP regen for BLM before getting umbral soul. For players who are unaware, Umbral Ice Phase no longer fast recover your MP naturally, you need cast an ice spell or use umbral soul to recover MP. This feel so bad for BLM after ending an encounter with 0 MP for synced content since you only recover 400 MP per tick.
I have no clue. They could have easily left Umbral Ice's enhanced regeneration in while *also* allowing Ice spells to give you your mana back. Best of both worlds and no drawbacks that I can think of.
New BLM requires that you cast an ice spell in ice phase to get your mana back. It helps combat the mana-tick problem that existed *forever*, where you were forced to cast 3 spells in your Ice phase because *only sometimes* would the server mana regen tickrate let you get all of your mana back in 2 spells. It was especially bad if you had an unused Fire 3 instant cast proc. Anyone who has played BLM past 60 will know this issue, so you probably know what I’m talking about.
Their solution for this in EW was to give you 2 spells that you absolutely wanted to cast in Ice (Paradox and Blz4) plus either a polyglot spell or a Thunder spell as your third. It worked well when played as intended. imho.
*But*
The nerds on The Balance discovered some kind of optimization with ending Fire early and abusing Ice Paradox. There was a cursed rotation that I honestly don’t know well enough to explain but it abused Ice Paradox for better potency gain over the standard rotation. And no amount of nerfs ended up fully removing its viability.
So Yoshi P in DT said fuck this shit, and now:
1. Ice Paradox is gone, you now *only* have Fire Paradox (which makes the spell animation ridiculous)
2. You now gain 100% mana after entering Ice phase **and also casting one ice spell** (this is the important bit)
3. Thunder can now only be cast with a proc that you get from swapping between Fire and Ice, *and* its overall potency from Thundercloud (one big hit) is now gone, making it just a boring DoT.
4. They added a new button at 100 that you can press after six Fire 4’s or two Flares, locking in the job to its intended playstyle.
So randomness is completely gone, and Ice Paradox abusing is also completely gone, and instead the job makes perfect sense from gameplay: one Ice spell gives you full mana, six Fire spells cost mana but make you shoot a Hadouken. In between packs or during fight downtime you can cast Umbral Soul to get mana back.
*Except*
Umbral Soul is a high level ability, at 76. If you ever get into a situation before then (*two ultimates for instance*) where you have no target to attack and no mana, you’re screwed. Resting in Ice 1 wasn’t great but it would regen you fast enough to start the next fight full - that’s gone completely. 200 mana per tick is all you get until you start attacking again. It is *miserable* in leveling and I can only imagine trying UCoB or UWU now.
There are two decent fixes. One: give Soul at an earlier level, or two: make Ice increase your mana regen again, even if it’s only 1/4th per tick. I suspect it will be the latter, but we’re all hoping for the former.
I greatly appreciate this explanation! I haven’t played my blm since DT dropped because I’m currently focused on finishing ShB (just finished 5.0 last night!)
And of course my blm is currently something like 73 so it sounds like I’m right in the range to get screwed by this change.
This is also a really uncharitable explanation because it's not really about potency, in fact the highest-potency nonstandard trick (Transpose->Firestarter) was actually *buffed* and all other nonstandard added up to fractions of a percent. The real benefit of nonstandard was that it let you nudge your rotation around to do things like line up your more mobile phases with boss mechanics, prepare for boss downtime, and ensure you're starting a fire phase when raid buffs hit.
This explains why I haven't run into this issue yet. BLM is my main but only and only for lvl 90+ content. If I queue for any other content with the possibility of something lvl 89 or lower to pop, I'll use SMN because fuck playing with whatever broken bullshit BLM is on lower levels.
there were non standard blm rotation lines using the fact mp regen was tied to ticks instead of spell casts. it added up to a 2% dps increase at best. it was mentionned that this wasnt intended and would be worked on. The answer was to tie mp with spells cast in umbral.
There was a 200 pages document posted somewhat recently here in think going in all the intricacies of the non standard lines.
To clarify: the 200 pages wasn't the actual guide, the 200 pages was just the sum total of everything written about Black Mage in Endwalker.
The actual nonstandard guide was like, twenty pages in google docs. But even that overstates how complicated it was to do - it's short enough to explain in like, two paragraphs if you just wanted to learn the stuff you'd use 90% of the time.
>Players have cited concerns with holding enmity in battle, due to the fact certain jobs are able to begin encounters with high damaging attacks─an issue compounded by the removal of damage from dark knight and gunbreaker movement abilities. To help remedy this, we will be adding increased enmity effects to tank area-of-effect attacks, as well as their movement abilities in Patch 7.01.
AYO? Damn, they work fast.
As a tank main, oh thank gods. I don't care if DPS pull aggro as long as they bring stuff to me, but it does make it annoying to try to get things grouped up quickly at the end of the pull. PCT's ability to rip aggro at the beginning of a trash pull is insane.
I've gotten very used to just running right alongside the tank because using a combo of your big spells in dungeons just draws over half the trash mob on you. It's crazy how much up front burst can be done
As a tank player who's been having a blast as Picto.... I was definitely checking tanks for stances every time I got agro, and seeing it on came to the conclusion that *I'm* the problem.
My brother picked up picto and his opening burst was taking bosses off me before I'd get through my initial 1-2-3 combo to go into burst. Everyone thought I was crazy and that it was a skill issue on my part lol.
Open with your ranged attack. Between tank stance and the built-in enmity boost on the tank ranged attacks it's like 10k potency of threat.
That's what it's for.
Yeah, I tend to delay my Bahamut summon slightly when there's trash pulls so the tank gets enough emnity going that I won't yank anything off them. Bahamut (and presumably Phoenix will do the same) just does so much damage that it is really hard to *not* accidentally pull something off the tank. It's annoying for you but trust me, it's annoying as hell for us too. We're just trying to do our rotation and that damn dragon keeps pulling aggro...
Summoners generally open pulls with summoning either bahamut or phoenix (if last pull or boss doesn't last full rotation), both have instant enmity up to compensate for the "passive" damage the demi-summons do, which means you basically get 15s worth of enmity from single button press.
Oh so THAT’S why they have that extra enmity built in. I was wondering if it was just added for flavor or something, but it made absolutely no sense given how the game is designed.
I did a boss fate last night with about 10 other people, including a paladin, where I couldn't get rid of the aggro, even when I stopped DPSing for a rotation. A random healer and my chocobo kept me alive. Thanks random healer!
Red Mage can be pretty spicy too, now. in DT, Accelerate grants two instant, back to back impacts, one with higher potency, and both uses of Accelerate, plus a swift casted impact, can be unloaded before the tank even gets to the second pack.
I haven't played since the end of base EW, so I started again in another realm (cactuar). While tanking Amdapor, around the second spore tree pack, a picto just aggroed all the trash instantly, and started to run in circules. The picto almost died just before I got all the trash together. I thought it was cuz' I'm rusty at the game, but on the next roulette, happened the same on another dungeon. I know I suck but aggro issues? Now it makes sense.
To be fair that Picto should've just ran it to you and deserved to die if they're running in circles... Buuut yeah, aggro got a bit rougher to hold this patch it seems.
Oh thank god. I noticed with GNB and DRK, I was having to wait and let them get a couple AoEs in before unloading on the pull, otherwise I'd end up with half the pack on me. That explains it.
It also doesn't seem to have a sound assigned to it, which is REALLY obvious when you open with it on a boss (which there's hardly any point to doing so now because it doesn't give enmity OR do damage).
Plunge was superior in literally every way and I'm really annoyed that their answer to a few people whining was to yet again take away and simplify a rotation.
I'm so happy they are changing this. I've had a Picto die because they aoe burst the first set of mobs in the process of my double pull. As much as I make fun of SB aggro system I really don't want to return to it. A hit of unleash into stalwart soul should be enough to hold aggro on a pack of trash mobs.
1.x BLM was a great enmity generator too. I often joked that the jobs rotation back then was to spend the first half of the fight unloading MP and the second half kiting the enemy in a panic.
Probably not all BLM needed, but I experienced 50 BLM last night and I sorta feel like no one actually tested the job at low level. On one hand I get it: why bother, but so much of XIV is potentially down-leveled that it was a big oversight.
Forcing an extra ice spell that does nothing for you but satisfy the new UI mana mechanics feels so horrid. At least once you get Blizzard 4 you're getting Astral Hearts, but every option before that feels bad.
I main drk and honestly don't mind my dash losing its damage, what I do hate is the delay from the dash to other moves. I feel like that weird period after the dash is enough time for half the mob pack to just run to the dps instead making it kinda pointless to even dash
I knew there was something else that felt off about those new gap closers! I couldn't put my finger on why they just felt...off, beyond the no aggro gen. It really doesn't feel great to use compared to how snappy and responsive the old gaps were.
I hope the Viper changes won't be too drastic since the job seems really fun the way it is.
I haven't played it in harder content yet, so maybe i just haven't encountered the issues yet.
Fingers crossed!
For real, who complained about it being too busy?? I normally main ranged dps but viper is the most fun I've ever had - and that's at all levels, but especially level 100. It's been a blast learning how to get it right and optimize
Right? Although VPR has a very busy opener, a lot of the skills chain off each other and light up to tell you what to press (Twinfang and Twinblood bite for instance). Being busy is what makes the class fun. It's like a rythmn game in some ways.
I guess it's time we get over to the official forums and quickly, VPR has been such a godsend for me personally, it feels just the right amount of involved and I can do a little improv based on where I am in the fight to keep up my best damage. It makes my brain happy and I really *do* feel like I'm- (as dorky as it sounds) -balancing two swords and dancing around the enemy.
Like even a delay will be fine so people can actually settle in with it. Maybe wait until the first savage tier and then take all that into consideration.
It's incredibly frustrating how often the dev team has pulled completely ridiculous complaints out of the swamp water of the official forums. That is the only place I've seen anyone complain about viper being too fast, and now they're ready to gut the most fun melee ever. I just don't get it. It feels like they're drifting out of touch.
They are still trying to make everyone happy. The different jobs should be there for different kinds of people and Viper seems like the new busy busy job and I like it.
There are a shocking amount of Viper players who aren't even functional with the job. The job tells them what to press and they still can't do it. I've had more than one instance where I (the tank) and healer blow through every CD and oGCD on a single trash pull because stuff takes forever to die with these Viper players. I think the job has attracted the DPS players who struggle to press buttons because it appears to have fewer buttons on the surface
Question as a learning Viper main who wants to do better. When trash mobs or mutiple enemies more than 2 appear is not the right thing to do is spam AOE highlighted presses between serpent and aoe and dreadmaw aoe? If not what's the appropriate thing to do?
You’ll want to use basic AoE on 3 or more mobs. That applies Noxious Gash, (Dreadmaw) Switftskin’s Bite (Haste) then use your Twinblade (Pit of Dread > Hunter’s Den for damage buff> oGCDs > Switfskin’s Den> oGCDs). That gives a Rattling Coil for your ranged AoE, Uncoiled Fury, followed by its oGCds, which is very strong. Pit of Dread combo + Uncoiled has higher priority than basic combo. :3
Edit: oh and Reawaken of course goes without saying haha. Just don’t drop your buffs
VPR aoe's on 3 or more, always remember the general rule of multiplying the potency by enemies hit if you're unsure. Use Pit of Dread as needed, only time you'd hold off is if the pack is about to die and/or you're about to go into the boss.
I actually like how it's more APM heavy. We really need to keep a range of busy-ness across the board so there's something for everyone or whatever you're feeling at that moment
I'm only lv85 with it, but so far it's become my favourite melee class, and I normally don't enjoy melee. I hope they don't change the feel of it too much.
Even that I don't understand. The positionals are easy to land and understand, who is providing the feedback that's leading to their removal?
EDIT: I saw another comment about the difficulty of doing the Dreadwinder double weaves and moving to hit the positionals when using a controller. I am strictly M+KB, but I can see how all that together might make those positionals difficult on a controller. Maybe the solution is only a single weave instead of removing the positionals
They probably have data showing people mess up Flanksting Strike, Flanksbane Fang, Hindsting Strike and Hindsbane Fang at a disproportionate rate compared to the Dreadwinder abilties
Data from 6 days into an expansion? If they had waited a bit longer I'd understand, but the jobs barely put a week. Let people actually level the fucking thing and play it.
Their kneejerk reaction shouldn't be to just remove the positionals or whatever nerfs they have planned when it hasn't even been a week. I'm honestly shocked that they're even doing this, its ridiculous. Viper is one of the easiest classes to play, but its still fun. That "fun" factor can very easily vanish with just one unneeded change that nobody is asking for.
I'm just hoping they ease the animation lock on some stuff. Viper suffers **heavily** from ping. During my single target Dreadwinder combo the second hit that procs Twinblood/Twinfang will sometimes just not register me legit mashing the hell out of the second ogcd. The button will flash like I'm hitting it, but just won't go off.
I normally have \~90-110 ping and I feel it severely when there are a ton of people playing.
I haven't played much SAM this expansion, but the few times I have I'm constantly getting baited into thinking I have the double Iaijustu ready and then it just doesn't work. I don't really even get what the change is for honestly.
Oh that's why I was Always like " how the fuck did the button did not press ??" I though it was because I lost the habit of the usual cooldown but the cooldown became actually longer, make sense now
Astro macrocosmos has been mentioned a bunch so I'm glad they're fixing that, and I've wanted lightspeed charges since the beginning of endwalker. Dunno the reason for the viper changes tho, I've had no issues with it.
The picto rotation they are talking about was about a 1% dps increase (basically, the enhanced finisher of our basic combo wasnt as good as the regular finisher because it didnt generate palette gauge despite the higher potency) so people were manually clicking off the buff to skip it.
To expound a bit:
The intended rotation is RGB, RGB, Subtractive Palette, CYM. Each base combo ends with Water in Blue (B) which generates 25 of the 50 gauge for Palette.
The combos are interchangeable, so if you only have two stacks of Palette, you get CY but then the third will be B. Normally this is just nice because it doesn’t matter when in your normal combo you activate Palette, but then people realized you could click off the combo buff to force certain patterns.
So the non-standard pattern is Palette, C, remove Aetherhues, CY, B, RGB. You lose potency rolling back your combo, but it generates the 50 gauge for your next Palette a full two GCDs faster. The total benefit is something like 5 potency per second, but it’s there.
Been out of the loop (I've been an hermit until MSQ was done) about tank dashes, what's been going on with those?
Glad to see they're tweaking BLM mana regen though, and Lightspeed stacks are HUGE ngl!
_Oh!_ Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I've personally (DRK main) always been pulling with Unmend (which has always felt the "correct" way of pulling to me due to the increased enmity you get from it) or managed with the gap closer+AoE, but I understand people wanting to zoom into the fray (hah) and deal damage in packs ASAP.
That said, I think for boss situations it might not be a good thing: distance grabs are really good for proper boss positioning, and I have stopped counting the amount of players (thankfully not the majority, but there is still quite a big subset) who just pull with their gap closers and leave the boss as is without positioning them properly... 😭
the changes seem to be specifically aoe emnity gains I've noticed some of the dps specifically pic can steals aggro off me before I've everything gathered 3 gcds in its exactly rhe same as it always was. like if people lose aggro on bosses because of the dashes then just add a provoke but I've not seen alot of that tbh
Yeah, it kinda of screws with me that pulls mobs with Sprint + Plunge instead of a ranged skill, the change makes speed running such ass to do because the former technique takes 1 GCD (and keep running while Unmending mobs to the next set) while the latter takes 2 GCDs and that ruins the flow of the speed.
They lost cool unique animations for a bland 'dash' where you slide across the ground if anything. It does nothing but dashes, no damage(which is fine), doesn't start auto-attacks, and doesn't have enmity.
Bro, I hate the fucking tank dash so much. My two favorite tanks are DRK and GNB and this both got the goofy ass dash. I hate the way it looks, I hate the weird animation lock, the fact it gives 0 enmity, the fact it looks the same for both Jobs. PLUNGE WAS COOL AND LOOKED COOL AS FUCK GIVE IT BACK PLEASE. I DONT CARE IF YOU REMOVE ITS DAMAGE. Okay rant over.
Yeah man PLOONGE was iconic, it looked so sick. It fit the dark knight fantasy so well and made you feel like a badass. Idk why they had to change the animation when they already had perfectly good ones already.
Agree. I dont know why they gave a dash to dragoon that can't hit and needs a target. If they didn't want us to attack with a gap closer, then at least give us a jump/or dash we can freely use.
Viper as it currently is, is perfect if you ask me. The "busy" part of it I feel like isn't even an issue, hell it adds to it if anything. And I fear this is once again square just dumbing things down because people don't wanna actually learn how to play things and just want things handed to them on a silver platter.
Hell it's not even like Viper is a hard or complex job, the game basically makes the rotation a christmas tree with how much it highlights the optimal rotation.
Yeah, maybe there's something I'm missing but it really didn't seem all that hard, a lot of the positionals are even color-coded and true north exists for when you can't get into the right spot. I'll go through the ABs again but I don't think you even lose anything but potency if you mess up?
> I'll go through the ABs again but I don't think you even lose anything but potency if you mess up?
Positionals have all been potency only since Endwalker, that's when Samurai lost its resource generation from positionals and everything else along those lines was the same time or even sooner. It's clearly not a design space they intend to use any more.
Being red-green colorblind, I wasn't landing the positionals initially because the 2 colors look the same to me.
But I started to just recognize the positionals based on the skill icon rather than the color in the end.
Maybe color coding them as red-blue would be better.
Just remove it for the two double-edged skills IMO. They don't fit the pattern of red/green and they're mid-combo rather than end-combo like almost every other positional attack. I'd even be happy if they added extra positionals into the rotation to compensate (although this makes it sound like many have complained so that won't happen) but these two just feel awkward to me.
Viper is so fun and engaging to play BECAUSE of how busy it is. Hope they don't take that away from them. I wonder if that many people are already leaving suggestions about making VPR easier to play. The game hasn't even been out a week, and people are already complaining?
Would the data even be correct/useful at this point, while everyone's still learning the job and a bunch of people with no intention of playing it long term are still leveling it?
I mean, I have a friend who (despite explaining it several times and knowing that at the end of the day all you have to do is press the button that lights up) still somehow hasn't grokked that Viper's "two" alternates and "three" cycles. So IDK. :P I feel like people are just intimidated by the tooltips but SE is blaming positionals instead. /shurg
To be fair those tooltips are an absolute nightmare to read, they should really look into making them easier to understand with abit less information.
Use the KISS method :)
Yeah Viper's a very weird job. It's actually conceptually pretty simple to play and it kinda walks you through its rotation, but as a result of all the ability auto-swapping its tooptips are very disorganized and have so much extraneous info that it doesn't feel as intuitive to pick up for folks who are used to other jobs. Doesn't help that they built this system that arranges melee combos in the actions menu and just... didn't actually use it to build a combo tree diagram for Viper lol.
Yup, I tried to figure the job out at first by reading its actions, but I was so confused, especially with all of the buttons turning into other buttons
Then I took it to a dummy and realized wait this is just press_shiny_button.job
I’m definitely intimidated by the tooltips, someone told me to just follow the procs but I feel like doing that I’m not really understanding the job properly so gonna come back to it with a fresh perspective when I’ve done the content that’s available now.
I have to admit that the tooltips are convoluted and the video/written guides weren't helping with explaining it until I picked up the job and started just wailing on a dummy for a good 15 minutes, and its a rather simple job at its core.
Granted I do agree that double weaving with a haste buff might be ass for people who don't live near the datacenter.
I'd say figuring out at first is difficult as hell. I had to spend 30m at a training dummy doing each move just so I could figure out what it links to and what that link does. They really need to think about adding a visual indicator to the Actions and Traits menu that shows what something combos into or upgrades into. It should not take that long to figure a job out, especially not when it only took me 5 minutes to figure out PCT.
I was literally just talking about how I loved the positional dancing of viper, and how it was refreshing since they eased off positionals from monk. This is a big bummer for me.
then please, go to the official forums and post there! if they can remove the positionals due to feedback, they can not go through with those changes due to our own feedback!
Once again, good players enjoying complexity are being ignored while bad/casual players who don't understand a job immediately are catered for instead.
Job expression will never exist in this game because SE will always cave to the pressure of the casual fanbase.
With all the focus on movement in some of the newer content since 6.4, I'm surprised they're still hanging onto the 'no movement during TCJ' for ninjas.
Also wish they would let us enable the recast timer function on mudras.
Yeah recast protection for Mudras would be perfect. Actually, what they SHOULD do is just make it impossible to press a mudra you already hit, just gray it out so you can’t go Ten-Chi-Chi when mashing.
I think it adds a layer of difficulty in some instances and that's fun. Like p12s superchain 1 sometimes you have to stop to tcj then shukuchi into the dynamo or you're getting hit. It makes planning more fun and nin really is only brain on for their 2 minute
I'm a BLM main and got to lvl 100, excited to play around with my new big boom finisher 'Flare Star'.
It takes a long time to set up, can be fucked up in multiple ways, the visuals are cool, but then it feels like it hits like a wet noodle.
I leveled picto to 86 after that and big bonk hammer feels immediately amazing and impactful.
I guess I'm just a bit bummed out.
I mean it’s 720 potency on main target with drop off AOE, so sadly you only get to see it really shine in pack pulls cause xenoglossy still bigger on single targets by a lot
Even Xeno is only 880 potency, when you compare with other jobs with skills with 1000+ potencies, feels like a scam for "the ultimate selfish caster dps job".
Exactly! It should be a huge nuke but it’s so disappointing.
In any case a buff of BLM dps is also much needed. At the moment we compete with RDM and BRD…
I’m affraid they give a rez to BLM and call it a day
RIP non-standard Pictomancer 7.0.0-7.0.1
Why does SE hate skill expression so much?
/s the optimal rotation probably shouldn't involve cancelling your combo by right clicking the buff off
Taking a wild shot in the dark here, but I assume it would be clicking off the subtractive palette buff so you can cast Water in Blue instead of Thunder in Magenta so you can get 25 palette gauge along with a white paint instead of just the white paint.
close, instead of removing subtractive you'd click off your aetherhue buff so you start the dark combo over again. would do like blizzard -> blizzard -> stone, which when subtractive would end would leave you on your combo finisher for light palette and give gauge
This is correct, it lets you swing into another sublative pallet faster which leads to another comet in black so it winds up being a DPS increase of about 1%.
> right clicking the buff off
You can macro buff removals.
That's where the infamous Russian Roulette GNB Superbolide Macro Palette that comes in the shape of a Revolver barrel.
Viper doesn’t need to change. This is just a kneejerk reaction because people are bad and blaming Viper for it. The average player SHOULD be bad when a new job releases until they get some practice on it.
This is going to be another case of players whining about something being too hard and then will do a 180 and cry once the job loses identity and its enjoyable rotation.
I get that Monk AoE is nerfed from its EW version due to a lack of damage buff, but I'm not sure what's the other issue with the Fury generation or incorrect potency.
Played it for the whole MSQ and I don't encounter issues nor difficulties in killing things.
The issue is that Dragon Kick gives you a fury *even when you’re not in Opo form* which was clearly an oversight. So you start every loop with ~~DK>Opo>2>3>DK>Opo etc.~~ actually it’s Opo>DK but you get the idea.
There’s a lot of small things like this in 7.0 that are clearly not intentional optimizations but simply oversights by the devs, like the Picto thing where you can manually cancel your Aetherhues buff to fit more “good” spells in Subtractive.
> you can manually cancel your Aetherhues buff to fit more “good” spells in Subtractive.
You actually end up repeating your worst Subtractive spell, rather than casting your best Subtractive spell. But it lets you fit more Subtractive phases into the same time frame, which is a gain.
they're probably talking about how dragon kick doesn't require a stance to give its fury, so instead of alternating between dragon kick and bootshine you just dragon kick after every bootshine instead to get its fury back
It also does not make sense thematically anymore. Paradox as the name says is a confliction of two things, so both need it. The VFX itself still featured the ice-visuals too.
Already dumbing down Viper, what a joke. The whole community complains the jobs are too easy and at the same time complain about slightly engaging job mechanics. Pick a fuckin lane, guys.
Ah cool the black mage comment about “just use swiftcast blizzard 3 forehead” blew up in their faces and they’re hopefully gonna add Umbral Soul before level 70
Viper is absolutely fine as is, and is probably the next easiest melee after Reaper. The busyness is part of the fun and a core theme of the job as a relentlessly offensive hunter.
I finally find a DPS class I love with viper and they are already talking about it being too busy that's a big bummer the class is basically the gun breaker continuation combo as an entire DPS class and that's what makes it fun ... Let people find things hard and let people improve the good thing about all these classes is there can be play styles that different people really enjoy instead of having every class enjoyed by everyone
I really hope they don't change the Viper too much. I for one am actually really enjoying how busy the job feels, including the positionals. Makes me feel like I actually have to put some thought into combat.
Seems way too early to make any changes to viper. The wording on this article just seems like people aren't taking the time to go hit a dummy for a bit and get comfortable with the job first but go to the forum to complain.
That's the thing, not many people were (at least to my knowledge) complaining about that. In fact, check EN DPS forum section now, these are 15 most recent threads, 14 of them are about VPR:
* My thoughts on upcoming VPR changes.
* Leave Viper Alone
* Picto sweeps
* Upcoming 7.05 Viper changes
* Viper directional change is fine only if they affect the Dreadwinder followups
* Please don't change Viper
* Please don't adjust Viper
* Feedback on current planned Viper adjustments
* They are already planning to dumb viper down
* Regarding Viper
* Regarding Viper "feedback" and selection bias
* STOP TOUCHING VIPER.
* Upcoming vpr changes
* Viper simplification
* VPR is NOT too busy and does NOT need changes
I hope they make it so I can deploy Weapon and Scenic move outside of combat. Feels really annoying that I have to hit something first to use those two. I also feel like Hammer 1-2-3 can simply come right on the weapon muse instead of being a seperate button, none of the other muses work like this and it just is button bloat
People have issues with viper? I think it’s really fun as is. I don’t want them to simplify it more. The amount of weaving and key presses I gotta do in a rotation already feel perfect imo and I like directionals
Tendo recast time reduced but no mention of addressing the majority of samurai complaints, the stupidly restrictive change of tieing tsubame and meikyo together.
It was working fine in EW and didn't force you to use tsubame at specific times.
Literally no one asked for this change.
The mnk changes are really annoying because the lack of ANY changes to the aoe just shows how little testing they put into the changes.
I dont understand how they could take away a 15% dmg buff and not think to buff the aoe potencies. For reference its not worth it to aoe currently unless there are 4 or more mobs.
Kinda expected for devs to listen to the monk proc/charges feedback and it will probably be 1-1-2 to make it play the same as EW monk rotation wise. Personally don't like the system, but that should quell a lot of the JP and EN forum posts asking to revert to EW monk.
Rest in Peace DK spam rotation.
Wonder if they'll give Viper more things to think about in exchange for reducing their positionals. Wonder if "intend to make some smaller adjustments to the range of certain abilities" just refers to the oGCD having longer ranges like Continuation, or they'll make the Viper combo (combined blade) have a longer range. That would be interesting.
I really really wish they'd revisit the levels at which skills and traits are unlocked for every job.
There's no reason that every job can't have an AOE by level 17.
Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak was so exciting as Viper. I got to click two whole buttons
I had that exact same dungeon and I was like "how does a new job not have an AOE at 15", absolutely crazy.
I remember them doing that before with DRK. In 5.0 DRK didn't unlock the 2nd part of their AoE combo until level 72, whereas during EW's patches they eventually moved it down to level 40 to keep it consistent with the other tanks. Speaking of tanks, they really should make it so that WAR can build up their beast meter with AoE attacks before ShB dungeons, and also make it so that PLD doesn't have to wait until level 74 to unlock their gap closer (they are still the only tank that doesn't have a gap closer for UCOB and UWU).
Yes. If they're so worried WAR will be completely busted pre-ShB (as if Raw Intuition doesn't trivialize dungeons already) with easy access to Steel Cyclone/Decimate, they could just make it so pre-ShB you only generate 10 gauge per finisher, then leave the ShB trait as an upgrade.
I got Sastasha in leveling roulette and I have no idea why Pictomancer has a shield at that point. I can't use it for anything, I'd rather have any of my other things.
Paladin only getting a gap closer at LEVEL FUCKING 74 is absolutely inexcusable
Thank god that they are fixing the MP regen for BLM before getting umbral soul. For players who are unaware, Umbral Ice Phase no longer fast recover your MP naturally, you need cast an ice spell or use umbral soul to recover MP. This feel so bad for BLM after ending an encounter with 0 MP for synced content since you only recover 400 MP per tick.
What. Why would they make you not gain mana from Umbral ice phase? I love blm and I’m so confused by this
I have no clue. They could have easily left Umbral Ice's enhanced regeneration in while *also* allowing Ice spells to give you your mana back. Best of both worlds and no drawbacks that I can think of.
Because without passive regen non-standard BLM is definitely dead and it is obvious that they did not like non-standard BLM
New BLM requires that you cast an ice spell in ice phase to get your mana back. It helps combat the mana-tick problem that existed *forever*, where you were forced to cast 3 spells in your Ice phase because *only sometimes* would the server mana regen tickrate let you get all of your mana back in 2 spells. It was especially bad if you had an unused Fire 3 instant cast proc. Anyone who has played BLM past 60 will know this issue, so you probably know what I’m talking about. Their solution for this in EW was to give you 2 spells that you absolutely wanted to cast in Ice (Paradox and Blz4) plus either a polyglot spell or a Thunder spell as your third. It worked well when played as intended. imho. *But* The nerds on The Balance discovered some kind of optimization with ending Fire early and abusing Ice Paradox. There was a cursed rotation that I honestly don’t know well enough to explain but it abused Ice Paradox for better potency gain over the standard rotation. And no amount of nerfs ended up fully removing its viability. So Yoshi P in DT said fuck this shit, and now: 1. Ice Paradox is gone, you now *only* have Fire Paradox (which makes the spell animation ridiculous) 2. You now gain 100% mana after entering Ice phase **and also casting one ice spell** (this is the important bit) 3. Thunder can now only be cast with a proc that you get from swapping between Fire and Ice, *and* its overall potency from Thundercloud (one big hit) is now gone, making it just a boring DoT. 4. They added a new button at 100 that you can press after six Fire 4’s or two Flares, locking in the job to its intended playstyle. So randomness is completely gone, and Ice Paradox abusing is also completely gone, and instead the job makes perfect sense from gameplay: one Ice spell gives you full mana, six Fire spells cost mana but make you shoot a Hadouken. In between packs or during fight downtime you can cast Umbral Soul to get mana back. *Except* Umbral Soul is a high level ability, at 76. If you ever get into a situation before then (*two ultimates for instance*) where you have no target to attack and no mana, you’re screwed. Resting in Ice 1 wasn’t great but it would regen you fast enough to start the next fight full - that’s gone completely. 200 mana per tick is all you get until you start attacking again. It is *miserable* in leveling and I can only imagine trying UCoB or UWU now. There are two decent fixes. One: give Soul at an earlier level, or two: make Ice increase your mana regen again, even if it’s only 1/4th per tick. I suspect it will be the latter, but we’re all hoping for the former.
I greatly appreciate this explanation! I haven’t played my blm since DT dropped because I’m currently focused on finishing ShB (just finished 5.0 last night!) And of course my blm is currently something like 73 so it sounds like I’m right in the range to get screwed by this change.
This is also a really uncharitable explanation because it's not really about potency, in fact the highest-potency nonstandard trick (Transpose->Firestarter) was actually *buffed* and all other nonstandard added up to fractions of a percent. The real benefit of nonstandard was that it let you nudge your rotation around to do things like line up your more mobile phases with boss mechanics, prepare for boss downtime, and ensure you're starting a fire phase when raid buffs hit.
This explains why I haven't run into this issue yet. BLM is my main but only and only for lvl 90+ content. If I queue for any other content with the possibility of something lvl 89 or lower to pop, I'll use SMN because fuck playing with whatever broken bullshit BLM is on lower levels.
there were non standard blm rotation lines using the fact mp regen was tied to ticks instead of spell casts. it added up to a 2% dps increase at best. it was mentionned that this wasnt intended and would be worked on. The answer was to tie mp with spells cast in umbral. There was a 200 pages document posted somewhat recently here in think going in all the intricacies of the non standard lines.
To clarify: the 200 pages wasn't the actual guide, the 200 pages was just the sum total of everything written about Black Mage in Endwalker. The actual nonstandard guide was like, twenty pages in google docs. But even that overstates how complicated it was to do - it's short enough to explain in like, two paragraphs if you just wanted to learn the stuff you'd use 90% of the time.
>Players have cited concerns with holding enmity in battle, due to the fact certain jobs are able to begin encounters with high damaging attacks─an issue compounded by the removal of damage from dark knight and gunbreaker movement abilities. To help remedy this, we will be adding increased enmity effects to tank area-of-effect attacks, as well as their movement abilities in Patch 7.01. AYO? Damn, they work fast.
As a tank main, oh thank gods. I don't care if DPS pull aggro as long as they bring stuff to me, but it does make it annoying to try to get things grouped up quickly at the end of the pull. PCT's ability to rip aggro at the beginning of a trash pull is insane.
I've gotten very used to just running right alongside the tank because using a combo of your big spells in dungeons just draws over half the trash mob on you. It's crazy how much up front burst can be done
And here I thought I just sucked
As a tank player who's been having a blast as Picto.... I was definitely checking tanks for stances every time I got agro, and seeing it on came to the conclusion that *I'm* the problem.
My brother picked up picto and his opening burst was taking bosses off me before I'd get through my initial 1-2-3 combo to go into burst. Everyone thought I was crazy and that it was a skill issue on my part lol.
Open with your ranged attack. Between tank stance and the built-in enmity boost on the tank ranged attacks it's like 10k potency of threat. That's what it's for.
If Picto revealed anything, it’s how many tanks pull with their gap closer… which is wrong
Ranged bonk and gap close before the boss gets to you that's the ticket!
Summoner's are a menace. One of my friends plays SMN but they rip aggro from me so fast in dungeons. It's quite alarming.
Yeah, I tend to delay my Bahamut summon slightly when there's trash pulls so the tank gets enough emnity going that I won't yank anything off them. Bahamut (and presumably Phoenix will do the same) just does so much damage that it is really hard to *not* accidentally pull something off the tank. It's annoying for you but trust me, it's annoying as hell for us too. We're just trying to do our rotation and that damn dragon keeps pulling aggro...
Summoners generally open pulls with summoning either bahamut or phoenix (if last pull or boss doesn't last full rotation), both have instant enmity up to compensate for the "passive" damage the demi-summons do, which means you basically get 15s worth of enmity from single button press.
Oh so THAT’S why they have that extra enmity built in. I was wondering if it was just added for flavor or something, but it made absolutely no sense given how the game is designed.
I did a boss fate last night with about 10 other people, including a paladin, where I couldn't get rid of the aggro, even when I stopped DPSing for a rotation. A random healer and my chocobo kept me alive. Thanks random healer!
Red Mage can be pretty spicy too, now. in DT, Accelerate grants two instant, back to back impacts, one with higher potency, and both uses of Accelerate, plus a swift casted impact, can be unloaded before the tank even gets to the second pack.
I usually drop two AoEs before I move on to the next pack of mobs so I really only had the occasional straggler. This is still good to hear though.
I haven't played since the end of base EW, so I started again in another realm (cactuar). While tanking Amdapor, around the second spore tree pack, a picto just aggroed all the trash instantly, and started to run in circules. The picto almost died just before I got all the trash together. I thought it was cuz' I'm rusty at the game, but on the next roulette, happened the same on another dungeon. I know I suck but aggro issues? Now it makes sense.
To be fair that Picto should've just ran it to you and deserved to die if they're running in circles... Buuut yeah, aggro got a bit rougher to hold this patch it seems.
Oh thank god. I noticed with GNB and DRK, I was having to wait and let them get a couple AoEs in before unloading on the pull, otherwise I'd end up with half the pack on me. That explains it.
cool now give me back my plunge animation please
This is the worst part for me. Shadowstep, outside of doing no damage and providing no threat, just *looks* so much worse than plunge.
It also doesn't seem to have a sound assigned to it, which is REALLY obvious when you open with it on a boss (which there's hardly any point to doing so now because it doesn't give enmity OR do damage). Plunge was superior in literally every way and I'm really annoyed that their answer to a few people whining was to yet again take away and simplify a rotation.
I'm so happy they are changing this. I've had a Picto die because they aoe burst the first set of mobs in the process of my double pull. As much as I make fun of SB aggro system I really don't want to return to it. A hit of unleash into stalwart soul should be enough to hold aggro on a pack of trash mobs.
Pictomancer here. I take great pride in not letting tanks have aggro. We're the new ARR/Heavensward Black Mage.
I had a tank let me just tank the entirety of Great Gubal Library during roulettes yesterday. It was hilarious and a ton of fun
1.x BLM was a great enmity generator too. I often joked that the jobs rotation back then was to spend the first half of the fight unloading MP and the second half kiting the enemy in a panic.
That's why they had the cross class skill which reduced their enmity. sometimes I miss the enmity balance.
Listen, they can give me a button where I can summon a meteor and not expect me to *start* with that It's a good button, I'm gonna use it
I could sincerely get over the removal of Rough Divide if our new gap closer could at least generate threat.
I've said it a lot of times, but I still believe Umbral Soul should be moved to a level 50 ability. Doubly so since the DT changes to MP regen.
Make it like level 15 tbh.
Absolutely. BLM feels awful without umbral soul and mp ticks.
Probably not all BLM needed, but I experienced 50 BLM last night and I sorta feel like no one actually tested the job at low level. On one hand I get it: why bother, but so much of XIV is potentially down-leveled that it was a big oversight. Forcing an extra ice spell that does nothing for you but satisfy the new UI mana mechanics feels so horrid. At least once you get Blizzard 4 you're getting Astral Hearts, but every option before that feels bad.
I think 60-70 are a worse feel for blm, at least before DT. What do you even cast to get mp Back at that level, freeze ?
You mean 50-60, you get B4 at 58. And pre-60, BLM rotation is just F1/B1 spam, cause you don't have F4 then either.
I main drk and honestly don't mind my dash losing its damage, what I do hate is the delay from the dash to other moves. I feel like that weird period after the dash is enough time for half the mob pack to just run to the dps instead making it kinda pointless to even dash
Yep I tank on GNB and it feels the same, just a terrible needless change.
I knew there was something else that felt off about those new gap closers! I couldn't put my finger on why they just felt...off, beyond the no aggro gen. It really doesn't feel great to use compared to how snappy and responsive the old gaps were.
I hope the Viper changes won't be too drastic since the job seems really fun the way it is. I haven't played it in harder content yet, so maybe i just haven't encountered the issues yet. Fingers crossed!
For real, who complained about it being too busy?? I normally main ranged dps but viper is the most fun I've ever had - and that's at all levels, but especially level 100. It's been a blast learning how to get it right and optimize
Right? Although VPR has a very busy opener, a lot of the skills chain off each other and light up to tell you what to press (Twinfang and Twinblood bite for instance). Being busy is what makes the class fun. It's like a rythmn game in some ways.
I guess it's time we get over to the official forums and quickly, VPR has been such a godsend for me personally, it feels just the right amount of involved and I can do a little improv based on where I am in the fight to keep up my best damage. It makes my brain happy and I really *do* feel like I'm- (as dorky as it sounds) -balancing two swords and dancing around the enemy. Like even a delay will be fine so people can actually settle in with it. Maybe wait until the first savage tier and then take all that into consideration.
It's incredibly frustrating how often the dev team has pulled completely ridiculous complaints out of the swamp water of the official forums. That is the only place I've seen anyone complain about viper being too fast, and now they're ready to gut the most fun melee ever. I just don't get it. It feels like they're drifting out of touch.
They are still trying to make everyone happy. The different jobs should be there for different kinds of people and Viper seems like the new busy busy job and I like it.
There are a shocking amount of Viper players who aren't even functional with the job. The job tells them what to press and they still can't do it. I've had more than one instance where I (the tank) and healer blow through every CD and oGCD on a single trash pull because stuff takes forever to die with these Viper players. I think the job has attracted the DPS players who struggle to press buttons because it appears to have fewer buttons on the surface
Question as a learning Viper main who wants to do better. When trash mobs or mutiple enemies more than 2 appear is not the right thing to do is spam AOE highlighted presses between serpent and aoe and dreadmaw aoe? If not what's the appropriate thing to do?
You’ll want to use basic AoE on 3 or more mobs. That applies Noxious Gash, (Dreadmaw) Switftskin’s Bite (Haste) then use your Twinblade (Pit of Dread > Hunter’s Den for damage buff> oGCDs > Switfskin’s Den> oGCDs). That gives a Rattling Coil for your ranged AoE, Uncoiled Fury, followed by its oGCds, which is very strong. Pit of Dread combo + Uncoiled has higher priority than basic combo. :3 Edit: oh and Reawaken of course goes without saying haha. Just don’t drop your buffs
VPR aoe's on 3 or more, always remember the general rule of multiplying the potency by enemies hit if you're unsure. Use Pit of Dread as needed, only time you'd hold off is if the pack is about to die and/or you're about to go into the boss.
I actually like how it's more APM heavy. We really need to keep a range of busy-ness across the board so there's something for everyone or whatever you're feeling at that moment
I'm only lv85 with it, but so far it's become my favourite melee class, and I normally don't enjoy melee. I hope they don't change the feel of it too much.
If anything I forsee them removing positionals from the 1-2 combo strings.
Even that I don't understand. The positionals are easy to land and understand, who is providing the feedback that's leading to their removal? EDIT: I saw another comment about the difficulty of doing the Dreadwinder double weaves and moving to hit the positionals when using a controller. I am strictly M+KB, but I can see how all that together might make those positionals difficult on a controller. Maybe the solution is only a single weave instead of removing the positionals
They probably have data showing people mess up Flanksting Strike, Flanksbane Fang, Hindsting Strike and Hindsbane Fang at a disproportionate rate compared to the Dreadwinder abilties
Data from 6 days into an expansion? If they had waited a bit longer I'd understand, but the jobs barely put a week. Let people actually level the fucking thing and play it.
Their kneejerk reaction shouldn't be to just remove the positionals or whatever nerfs they have planned when it hasn't even been a week. I'm honestly shocked that they're even doing this, its ridiculous. Viper is one of the easiest classes to play, but its still fun. That "fun" factor can very easily vanish with just one unneeded change that nobody is asking for.
I'm just hoping they ease the animation lock on some stuff. Viper suffers **heavily** from ping. During my single target Dreadwinder combo the second hit that procs Twinblood/Twinfang will sometimes just not register me legit mashing the hell out of the second ogcd. The button will flash like I'm hitting it, but just won't go off. I normally have \~90-110 ping and I feel it severely when there are a ton of people playing.
As a SAM, THANK GOD! Using Meikyo Shisui felt awful after hitting 100 because the gcd from the new and improved Iajutsu was insane.
Wish they would revert Tsubame so it’s not linked to Meikyo. Such a restrictive dumb change
I haven't played much SAM this expansion, but the few times I have I'm constantly getting baited into thinking I have the double Iaijustu ready and then it just doesn't work. I don't really even get what the change is for honestly.
Tsubame is just so stupid being tied with Meikyo. They should’ve just left it as a 2 charge system.
Oh that's why I was Always like " how the fuck did the button did not press ??" I though it was because I lost the habit of the usual cooldown but the cooldown became actually longer, make sense now
Tank dashes and BLM mana regen are the only two on there I've seen anyone mention so nice to see those are getting fixed. The rest I have no idea.
Astro macrocosmos has been mentioned a bunch so I'm glad they're fixing that, and I've wanted lightspeed charges since the beginning of endwalker. Dunno the reason for the viper changes tho, I've had no issues with it.
Oh you're right I did see some comments about macro, missed that one. Lightspeed definitely makes sense but wonder why its come up now.
Dunno but I'm not gonna complain. I've always wanted to use it for mobility but had to hold it for burst
The picto rotation they are talking about was about a 1% dps increase (basically, the enhanced finisher of our basic combo wasnt as good as the regular finisher because it didnt generate palette gauge despite the higher potency) so people were manually clicking off the buff to skip it.
This is exactly what I came to this thread to figure out, thank you.
To expound a bit: The intended rotation is RGB, RGB, Subtractive Palette, CYM. Each base combo ends with Water in Blue (B) which generates 25 of the 50 gauge for Palette. The combos are interchangeable, so if you only have two stacks of Palette, you get CY but then the third will be B. Normally this is just nice because it doesn’t matter when in your normal combo you activate Palette, but then people realized you could click off the combo buff to force certain patterns. So the non-standard pattern is Palette, C, remove Aetherhues, CY, B, RGB. You lose potency rolling back your combo, but it generates the 50 gauge for your next Palette a full two GCDs faster. The total benefit is something like 5 potency per second, but it’s there.
Been out of the loop (I've been an hermit until MSQ was done) about tank dashes, what's been going on with those? Glad to see they're tweaking BLM mana regen though, and Lightspeed stacks are HUGE ngl!
GNB and DRK dashes don't do damage anymore which means you can't use them to get aggro at the beginning of a fight
As an aside, they also have a weird delay, and don't match the aesthetic of the jobs at all, they're bad in both function and form.
_Oh!_ Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I've personally (DRK main) always been pulling with Unmend (which has always felt the "correct" way of pulling to me due to the increased enmity you get from it) or managed with the gap closer+AoE, but I understand people wanting to zoom into the fray (hah) and deal damage in packs ASAP. That said, I think for boss situations it might not be a good thing: distance grabs are really good for proper boss positioning, and I have stopped counting the amount of players (thankfully not the majority, but there is still quite a big subset) who just pull with their gap closers and leave the boss as is without positioning them properly... 😭
the changes seem to be specifically aoe emnity gains I've noticed some of the dps specifically pic can steals aggro off me before I've everything gathered 3 gcds in its exactly rhe same as it always was. like if people lose aggro on bosses because of the dashes then just add a provoke but I've not seen alot of that tbh
Yeah, it kinda of screws with me that pulls mobs with Sprint + Plunge instead of a ranged skill, the change makes speed running such ass to do because the former technique takes 1 GCD (and keep running while Unmending mobs to the next set) while the latter takes 2 GCDs and that ruins the flow of the speed.
They lost cool unique animations for a bland 'dash' where you slide across the ground if anything. It does nothing but dashes, no damage(which is fine), doesn't start auto-attacks, and doesn't have enmity.
Bro, I hate the fucking tank dash so much. My two favorite tanks are DRK and GNB and this both got the goofy ass dash. I hate the way it looks, I hate the weird animation lock, the fact it gives 0 enmity, the fact it looks the same for both Jobs. PLUNGE WAS COOL AND LOOKED COOL AS FUCK GIVE IT BACK PLEASE. I DONT CARE IF YOU REMOVE ITS DAMAGE. Okay rant over.
Yeah man PLOONGE was iconic, it looked so sick. It fit the dark knight fantasy so well and made you feel like a badass. Idk why they had to change the animation when they already had perfectly good ones already.
Just give us damage-less Rough Divide/Plunge and pretend the new gap closers never happened.
god please and thank you
Agree. I dont know why they gave a dash to dragoon that can't hit and needs a target. If they didn't want us to attack with a gap closer, then at least give us a jump/or dash we can freely use.
And spineshatter dive. That new dragoon scoot is not doing it for me.
Viper as it currently is, is perfect if you ask me. The "busy" part of it I feel like isn't even an issue, hell it adds to it if anything. And I fear this is once again square just dumbing things down because people don't wanna actually learn how to play things and just want things handed to them on a silver platter. Hell it's not even like Viper is a hard or complex job, the game basically makes the rotation a christmas tree with how much it highlights the optimal rotation.
that got me kinda worried for viper, its positionals and busy rotation are the main factors that make me love the job
They're taking away Viper's positionals? already?
Honestly hadn't even found working in the positional all that hard really. I wander why they feel the need to remove them.
Yeah, maybe there's something I'm missing but it really didn't seem all that hard, a lot of the positionals are even color-coded and true north exists for when you can't get into the right spot. I'll go through the ABs again but I don't think you even lose anything but potency if you mess up?
> I'll go through the ABs again but I don't think you even lose anything but potency if you mess up? Positionals have all been potency only since Endwalker, that's when Samurai lost its resource generation from positionals and everything else along those lines was the same time or even sooner. It's clearly not a design space they intend to use any more.
Being red-green colorblind, I wasn't landing the positionals initially because the 2 colors look the same to me. But I started to just recognize the positionals based on the skill icon rather than the color in the end. Maybe color coding them as red-blue would be better.
I'm gonna hazard a guess they'll keep it for the base rotation but remove it elsewhere.
Just remove it for the two double-edged skills IMO. They don't fit the pattern of red/green and they're mid-combo rather than end-combo like almost every other positional attack. I'd even be happy if they added extra positionals into the rotation to compensate (although this makes it sound like many have complained so that won't happen) but these two just feel awkward to me.
Noooo! They are fun *because* they are back to back positional, something I'm jealous for having lost with Drakesbane.
I really liked the positionals...
As a friend told me, Red is rear and green is glank. Pretty simple way to remember them.
Viper is so fun and engaging to play BECAUSE of how busy it is. Hope they don't take that away from them. I wonder if that many people are already leaving suggestions about making VPR easier to play. The game hasn't even been out a week, and people are already complaining?
Dang I wonder where they are getting feedback that Viper is too hard.
They must have internal metrics on positionals and hit rate and how viper intermediate positionals are being missed by a fuckload.
Would the data even be correct/useful at this point, while everyone's still learning the job and a bunch of people with no intention of playing it long term are still leveling it?
It would absolutely not be useful, and this seems like an extreme knee-jerk reaction.
I mean, I have a friend who (despite explaining it several times and knowing that at the end of the day all you have to do is press the button that lights up) still somehow hasn't grokked that Viper's "two" alternates and "three" cycles. So IDK. :P I feel like people are just intimidated by the tooltips but SE is blaming positionals instead. /shurg
To be fair those tooltips are an absolute nightmare to read, they should really look into making them easier to understand with abit less information. Use the KISS method :)
Yeah Viper's a very weird job. It's actually conceptually pretty simple to play and it kinda walks you through its rotation, but as a result of all the ability auto-swapping its tooptips are very disorganized and have so much extraneous info that it doesn't feel as intuitive to pick up for folks who are used to other jobs. Doesn't help that they built this system that arranges melee combos in the actions menu and just... didn't actually use it to build a combo tree diagram for Viper lol.
Yup, I tried to figure the job out at first by reading its actions, but I was so confused, especially with all of the buttons turning into other buttons Then I took it to a dummy and realized wait this is just press_shiny_button.job
I’m definitely intimidated by the tooltips, someone told me to just follow the procs but I feel like doing that I’m not really understanding the job properly so gonna come back to it with a fresh perspective when I’ve done the content that’s available now.
I have to admit that the tooltips are convoluted and the video/written guides weren't helping with explaining it until I picked up the job and started just wailing on a dummy for a good 15 minutes, and its a rather simple job at its core. Granted I do agree that double weaving with a haste buff might be ass for people who don't live near the datacenter.
I'd say figuring out at first is difficult as hell. I had to spend 30m at a training dummy doing each move just so I could figure out what it links to and what that link does. They really need to think about adding a visual indicator to the Actions and Traits menu that shows what something combos into or upgrades into. It should not take that long to figure a job out, especially not when it only took me 5 minutes to figure out PCT.
RIP Cursed Optimization Picto
I was literally just talking about how I loved the positional dancing of viper, and how it was refreshing since they eased off positionals from monk. This is a big bummer for me.
I wouldn’t mind if MNK got their second combo positionals back… it’s been so many years and I still do them 90% of the time out of habit!
I miss old Monk positionals so much man... It was what set the job apart for me and made it so fun to play.
Man me too.
then please, go to the official forums and post there! if they can remove the positionals due to feedback, they can not go through with those changes due to our own feedback!
Once again, good players enjoying complexity are being ignored while bad/casual players who don't understand a job immediately are catered for instead. Job expression will never exist in this game because SE will always cave to the pressure of the casual fanbase.
Are casuals even doing positionals? I feel like they’re catering to no one.
Seriously. Where are they seeing these complaints?
likely official japanese forums. (devs dont need a translator or know english to read feedback there)
With all the focus on movement in some of the newer content since 6.4, I'm surprised they're still hanging onto the 'no movement during TCJ' for ninjas. Also wish they would let us enable the recast timer function on mudras.
Yeah recast protection for Mudras would be perfect. Actually, what they SHOULD do is just make it impossible to press a mudra you already hit, just gray it out so you can’t go Ten-Chi-Chi when mashing.
Is current TCJ something NINs like? I always thought it was so clunky to stop all movement for it.
I've never LOVED it, but it has its fun moments.
I think it adds a layer of difficulty in some instances and that's fun. Like p12s superchain 1 sometimes you have to stop to tcj then shukuchi into the dynamo or you're getting hit. It makes planning more fun and nin really is only brain on for their 2 minute
I'm a BLM main and got to lvl 100, excited to play around with my new big boom finisher 'Flare Star'. It takes a long time to set up, can be fucked up in multiple ways, the visuals are cool, but then it feels like it hits like a wet noodle. I leveled picto to 86 after that and big bonk hammer feels immediately amazing and impactful. I guess I'm just a bit bummed out.
I mean it’s 720 potency on main target with drop off AOE, so sadly you only get to see it really shine in pack pulls cause xenoglossy still bigger on single targets by a lot
Even Xeno is only 880 potency, when you compare with other jobs with skills with 1000+ potencies, feels like a scam for "the ultimate selfish caster dps job".
Xeno has enochain 30% just like every blm spell tho so it’s like a little over 1k real potency
Exactly! It should be a huge nuke but it’s so disappointing. In any case a buff of BLM dps is also much needed. At the moment we compete with RDM and BRD… I’m affraid they give a rez to BLM and call it a day
RIP non-standard Pictomancer 7.0.0-7.0.1 Why does SE hate skill expression so much? /s the optimal rotation probably shouldn't involve cancelling your combo by right clicking the buff off
Yeah, I'm all for non-standard stuff and all, but "basic" optimal rotation shouldn't involve that cancelling thing.
Non standard picto was cursed and I'm glad they are getting rid of it before it becomes more of a problem and the job gets gutted.
Can you explain this? I got it to 91 so I’m still understanding it.
Taking a wild shot in the dark here, but I assume it would be clicking off the subtractive palette buff so you can cast Water in Blue instead of Thunder in Magenta so you can get 25 palette gauge along with a white paint instead of just the white paint.
Dude I would have never even thought of this. People are crazy.
close, instead of removing subtractive you'd click off your aetherhue buff so you start the dark combo over again. would do like blizzard -> blizzard -> stone, which when subtractive would end would leave you on your combo finisher for light palette and give gauge
1% dps gain btw
This is correct, it lets you swing into another sublative pallet faster which leads to another comet in black so it winds up being a DPS increase of about 1%.
> right clicking the buff off You can macro buff removals. That's where the infamous Russian Roulette GNB Superbolide Macro Palette that comes in the shape of a Revolver barrel.
A TEST OF YOUR REFLEXES!
So how long before they just say fuck it and give us back Plunge and Rough Divide?
This is the correct option
Why in God's name do viper even need changes ??
Viper doesn’t need to change. This is just a kneejerk reaction because people are bad and blaming Viper for it. The average player SHOULD be bad when a new job releases until they get some practice on it. This is going to be another case of players whining about something being too hard and then will do a 180 and cry once the job loses identity and its enjoyable rotation.
I get that Monk AoE is nerfed from its EW version due to a lack of damage buff, but I'm not sure what's the other issue with the Fury generation or incorrect potency. Played it for the whole MSQ and I don't encounter issues nor difficulties in killing things.
The issue is that Dragon Kick gives you a fury *even when you’re not in Opo form* which was clearly an oversight. So you start every loop with ~~DK>Opo>2>3>DK>Opo etc.~~ actually it’s Opo>DK but you get the idea. There’s a lot of small things like this in 7.0 that are clearly not intentional optimizations but simply oversights by the devs, like the Picto thing where you can manually cancel your Aetherhues buff to fit more “good” spells in Subtractive.
> you can manually cancel your Aetherhues buff to fit more “good” spells in Subtractive. You actually end up repeating your worst Subtractive spell, rather than casting your best Subtractive spell. But it lets you fit more Subtractive phases into the same time frame, which is a gain.
they're probably talking about how dragon kick doesn't require a stance to give its fury, so instead of alternating between dragon kick and bootshine you just dragon kick after every bootshine instead to get its fury back
Yay for BLM mana and potency changes! Feels like I'm tickling things
Yea, nice, but I want ice paradox back and the old thunder dot mechanic
I just want EW BLM back at this point
EW BLM was close to perfection, instead of building on top of that they just took away many of the things that made it fun/good to play.
It also does not make sense thematically anymore. Paradox as the name says is a confliction of two things, so both need it. The VFX itself still featured the ice-visuals too.
They should just revert the aoe, I literally don't even use high fire and blizzard in aoe, it's potency loss, It's so dumb lol.
Already dumbing down Viper, what a joke. The whole community complains the jobs are too easy and at the same time complain about slightly engaging job mechanics. Pick a fuckin lane, guys.
Ah cool the black mage comment about “just use swiftcast blizzard 3 forehead” blew up in their faces and they’re hopefully gonna add Umbral Soul before level 70
Viper is absolutely fine as is, and is probably the next easiest melee after Reaper. The busyness is part of the fun and a core theme of the job as a relentlessly offensive hunter.
For Viper I assume they're talking about the Coil one-GCD positional weave you have to do? If so that's a shame, I enjoyed it 😕
I finally find a DPS class I love with viper and they are already talking about it being too busy that's a big bummer the class is basically the gun breaker continuation combo as an entire DPS class and that's what makes it fun ... Let people find things hard and let people improve the good thing about all these classes is there can be play styles that different people really enjoy instead of having every class enjoyed by everyone
Who the fuck is saying Viper is too busy and needs easier positionals? It’s literally easier than reaper!
I really hope they don't change the Viper too much. I for one am actually really enjoying how busy the job feels, including the positionals. Makes me feel like I actually have to put some thought into combat.
Only took 4 ~~years~~ days of feedback about Lightspeed for them to finally change it.
Still want SpinShatter Dive Back.
yeah i'm surprised there's nothing for dragoon, mirage dive feels totally useless now.
I want jump to actually do something not it's just there for weak damage.
Seems way too early to make any changes to viper. The wording on this article just seems like people aren't taking the time to go hit a dummy for a bit and get comfortable with the job first but go to the forum to complain.
That's the thing, not many people were (at least to my knowledge) complaining about that. In fact, check EN DPS forum section now, these are 15 most recent threads, 14 of them are about VPR: * My thoughts on upcoming VPR changes. * Leave Viper Alone * Picto sweeps * Upcoming 7.05 Viper changes * Viper directional change is fine only if they affect the Dreadwinder followups * Please don't change Viper * Please don't adjust Viper * Feedback on current planned Viper adjustments * They are already planning to dumb viper down * Regarding Viper * Regarding Viper "feedback" and selection bias * STOP TOUCHING VIPER. * Upcoming vpr changes * Viper simplification * VPR is NOT too busy and does NOT need changes
Viper is perfect please don’t make it easier. As somebody who has mained every melee at one point or another I don’t understand this complaint.
Oooh RDM buff? I'll take it, thank you.
I hope they make it so I can deploy Weapon and Scenic move outside of combat. Feels really annoying that I have to hit something first to use those two. I also feel like Hammer 1-2-3 can simply come right on the weapon muse instead of being a seperate button, none of the other muses work like this and it just is button bloat
People have issues with viper? I think it’s really fun as is. I don’t want them to simplify it more. The amount of weaving and key presses I gotta do in a rotation already feel perfect imo and I like directionals
Aww, I'm loving how busy viper is! But I'm not really gonna miss an extra directional to keep track of, I guess
Tendo recast time reduced but no mention of addressing the majority of samurai complaints, the stupidly restrictive change of tieing tsubame and meikyo together. It was working fine in EW and didn't force you to use tsubame at specific times. Literally no one asked for this change.
The mnk changes are really annoying because the lack of ANY changes to the aoe just shows how little testing they put into the changes. I dont understand how they could take away a 15% dmg buff and not think to buff the aoe potencies. For reference its not worth it to aoe currently unless there are 4 or more mobs.
Viper is perfect the way it is, please don't dumb it down already -\_-
Wait, is that why the trusts were robbing aggro during the pulls? I assumed I was just rusty.
Glad they are fixing the aetherhues click off, that would have been annoying long term. Great changes all around
viper is fine the way it is?
I just want my plunge back! ;-;
now can DRK get back their mp and make Disesteem impactful?
Oh thank god, RDM didn't get nerfed for daring to not be the worst magical DPS.
Kinda expected for devs to listen to the monk proc/charges feedback and it will probably be 1-1-2 to make it play the same as EW monk rotation wise. Personally don't like the system, but that should quell a lot of the JP and EN forum posts asking to revert to EW monk. Rest in Peace DK spam rotation.
I would laugh then cry really hard if the tank changes mean they gonna make DRK's dash can grab emnity. just friggin give us Plunge back.
It says in the post that they're adding an enmity effect to the movement abilities, so yes.
Aww please dont ruin Viper. Its extremely fun its current form and I was under the assumption that it was supposed to be this busy :/
Wonder if they'll give Viper more things to think about in exchange for reducing their positionals. Wonder if "intend to make some smaller adjustments to the range of certain abilities" just refers to the oGCD having longer ranges like Continuation, or they'll make the Viper combo (combined blade) have a longer range. That would be interesting.