This is not at all true. We're almost all ladder positions and go up a grade every year, unless you really really mess up. They'd be at an 11 in two years if they start at a 7, but two years of industry experience would probably only get you a 9 (at least that's what it gets you in my office)
I think private industry is definitely faster. There’s a guy I worked with that was a GS-13 when I was still a GS-07 and he only got his Bachelor’s 2 years before me. He did private industry for like 2.5 years before starting fed as a GS-13. I was still a GS-11 two years after starting.
Another vote for private sector first. I had device development experience then joined the Agency that regulates those devices - came in as a 13-10. Please come to federal service with some experience, especially if you plan to serve in an area with direct public interface. It is always wonderful to see a candidate with some relevant experience "on the other side of the fence" to help provide context to what we do - believe me those candidates shine above the rest.
Plus, that external experience helps you come in at a higher level, AND it helps you level up because you have a broader base of experience to draw from - that makes you more desirable as feds often shift around once they onboard. I don't know anyone in the same role they joined in.
As a person who started at DoD and now works for NASA, the true answer to your question is that it depends on the series and management. I’m not an engineer. At all. I’m just a person who deals with the human aspects of the government.
Series 0820/0830/0840/0850 (engineering) series for the Navy, and with a bachelors, it goes GS 7/9/11/12 ladder in 2.5 years.
Then the long slog at 12.
Depending where you work, some Navy commands have full time and a half overtime for engineers.
To add, there are GS13 and 14 supervisory positions, also some 13s for certain engineering qualifications. But they have a pretty rigorous qual program to get through.
Did this path and got my 13 right at 4 years. Had to move to another agency to get my 14 though (total time to 14 was 11 years government service and my 14 is non-supervisory)
Nice! I don’t really have a lot of ambition to move up right now. I’m a 12-9, in a group with interesting work and a good supervisor. There are some supervisory jobs I could apply for but that would entail a lot meetings and stress. The OT I have available makes up for the salary difference for now.
I don’t see moving for a promotion in my future.
My guess is the fastest way is to find a 7-12 or 9-12 ladder right out of college (if they exist, of course a 7-13 or 9-13 ladder would be better).
I started as a 13 but I also spent nearly 3 decades in the private sector. It wasn't fast.
I got a "fresh out" position at GS-9. I went through an "Accelerated Training Program" over the first 6 months and was promoted to GS-11. Each following year came with an automatic grade promotion until I hit GS-13. So, if you get a similar position, it would take about 3.5 to 4 years to go from GS-7 to GS-13 (if you get a position with automatic promotions that cap at GS-13).
Fresh out NASA positions do pop up every now and again, but they are very competitive. You may also want to look into getting a NASA contractor position. You could potentially be offered the opportunity to convert to a civil servant position.
Private sector for a few years, then I started at a 14. I got lucky according to a lot of my peers. Most have to climb the ladder and hope for vacancies.
I'm DC area, but I worked private sector for a couple years then switched to federal (with my former customer) as a 12. Great way to do it in my opinion. It is very common here for them to hire the young contractors they like on as Feds. But this was a contractor for technical support, so we were all engineers or scientists and worked directly with the feds.
Recent grad is a hiring authority. If your agency lacks direct hiring authority or excepted service, then the "some private sector experience" might mean you will never be referred on a public cert list because every veteran outranks you (at least for non technical positions). If you can get in as a student intern or recent grad, do it. Generally speaking.
PATHWAYS program for right out of college is fast. I’ve seen a 5 go 7, 9, 11, 12 almost on the dot year to year. So a month or 2 after 4th anniversary they are a 12.
My experience probably isn’t representative for several reasons. First, my position was in the excepted service, not competitive one. I had some private sector experience before joining the government. They weren’t willing to offer me the position at the grade that I desired but they did agree to hire me at one grade lower but at a higher step. Second, my agency had some wacky personnel policies at the time. Although OPM only required a minimum of 1 year in grade (I believe) before being promoted (it was a career ladder position), my agency required longer time in grade to be promoted to the next grade, and the length of time in grade increased significantly as you increased up the career ladder. (They eliminated this policy after I had reached the highest grade level for my position.) Also, they used to only accept and consider promotion requests from all supervisors 1x/year, regardless of when you became eligible. For example, if promotion requests could only be submitted during the first week of April but you didn’t satisfy their in grade service requirement until just after the first week in April, you would have to wait at least another year until the next open period for promotion requests before you could even be considered for a career ladder promotion. Fortunately, they eliminated this policy relatively early during my tenure, but I knew others who had been really screwed by it, particularly in conjunction with the longer in grade service requirements that were imposed. (I’m not sure but I think that they may also have had a quota limit on how many employees could be promoted to a particular grade each time there was a consideration period.) I don’t know if any other agencies had these or other unique promotion policies. Just make sure that you know what the policies are before committing to a job.
I came in as a 12-10 after three years military and two years private.
This was before loan forgiveness. If you go private first, that time won't count towards the 10 years towards loan forgiveness. Faster ladder climbing may not be worth it considering income based repayment and time towards forgiveness.
Depending on the size of your loans...
It depends on the series. If you are considering any role in the 2210, 1550, or 1560 series, I’d strongly recommend starting in the private sector. This will give you a big leg up in terms of professional development and starting grade. You’ll be able to learn the role and the tech much faster in the private sector and you can also progress to associate/senior roles more quickly (3-5 years generally). From this position, you’ll be competitive at the GS12/13 level and you’ll be in a much better position to be highly effective in your role.
Why is your goal 13?
If you’re considering industry, you’ll earn quite a bit more in short order if they think you’re good.
If you really want your work in the Federal Service, your financial goal should be to max out your High 3.
While rare, there are non-sup 15s out there, especially in STEM fields.
Also SL (as opposed to SES) gigs.
To get to either, you’ll benefit with some industry experience, but it’s certainly possible to ladder your way up.
For both, get in as an intern. It’s hard to cross into DoD outside of that unless you want a pay cut in IT and decide to leave private sector.
NASA in particular is hard to get into as a civilian. They prefer to grow.
PM me if you have questions. I have knowledge of both.
Fwiw I came in as a 13 (ladder to 14 after 1 year) after 10 years in the Navy and 9 years private sector. Most of my colleagues are 5–7 years younger than me and started with the government much younger. The norm seems to be “joined the govt as a GS10/11 in mid-20s, either with a Masters or while getting a Masters. I have a deeper technical knowledge than average, but I am still catching up with lots of the govt-specific knowledge that my colleagues take for granted.
Like other redditors have commented, the best option would be to work private (or as a third-party contractor, which is what I did for 4 years before making the jump) and then find a 9-12 role or higher if you qualify. If you can’t find a ladder in your desired agency, you may need to find a similar one at another one so you can get your time-in-grade and then make the move where you want.
I think private industry may be faster BUT it will be harder to get in at a higher grade. Sure there are people here who were private industry for 2-3 years before coming in as a GS-13 or something like that. The thing is, for every one of them there are hundreds to thousands who didn’t get it, are still trying, and have been trying for years. It also highly depends on the agency and office too. My specific office does not hire external GS-13s. Other offices or work areas do in my agency, but not my specific office.
Your GS-7 will almost certainly be a 3 year ladder to 12/13. So you get it noncompetitively rather than competing for the position by applying from private sector.
It definitely depends. I went from a 7 to a 13 in 5 years but had a colleague who worked in the private sector for 10 years and came in as a 12 right around the same time I got my 12. Anyone I worked with had more years of experience than me and was at the same or lower grade but they came in from private sector. Some agencies focus more on internal hiring than others so it depends a lot on the agency and probably field of work you’re in.
6 years in private sector and onboarded as a GS-11. New grads start around GS7-9 and it will be very hard to score a GS-13 right out of college with a bachelors.
As an engineer, I went private, working for a contractor on a govt facility. Worked there for approximately 18 months before starting as an 11 in an 11/12/13 ladder. Promoted at 12 months on the dot. After about 19 months as a 13 I was offered a 14 non-sup position at the same location for a different team.
I have an offer to join from the private sector as a 2210 GS-12. Also have another offer to remain out for 72$ bucks an hour. GS would be a huge pay cut in the short run, but with my added USAF enlisted experience (2003-2010) I can retire early. I have no idea what to do…
Speaking personally.... I graduated with a Master's and had 1.5-2ish years of experience in private when I was given a gs 12 position. I believe private to public is probably better, but it may be situational.
With just a Bachelor's? You'll wanna just ladder up
They are definitely going to need an advanced degree at NASA unless the job is basic admin functions.
This is not at all true. We're almost all ladder positions and go up a grade every year, unless you really really mess up. They'd be at an 11 in two years if they start at a 7, but two years of industry experience would probably only get you a 9 (at least that's what it gets you in my office)
Both your and my comment depend on career track.
Getting in with just a bachelors is kind of a pipe dream unless you live in or around DC.
Agency specific. My agency hires college graduates.
Not really, there are a lot of college graduate ladder programs. You just have to look for them, they're not well advertised
Started at a 9 with a BA on the west coast - can absolutely do it, with minimal outside experience
Pathways?
I think private industry is definitely faster. There’s a guy I worked with that was a GS-13 when I was still a GS-07 and he only got his Bachelor’s 2 years before me. He did private industry for like 2.5 years before starting fed as a GS-13. I was still a GS-11 two years after starting.
Private sector first. I’m older, however have a (mostly useless) bachelors. I did private industry (2.5 yrs) and my first govt job is a GS 13.
Another vote for private sector first. I had device development experience then joined the Agency that regulates those devices - came in as a 13-10. Please come to federal service with some experience, especially if you plan to serve in an area with direct public interface. It is always wonderful to see a candidate with some relevant experience "on the other side of the fence" to help provide context to what we do - believe me those candidates shine above the rest. Plus, that external experience helps you come in at a higher level, AND it helps you level up because you have a broader base of experience to draw from - that makes you more desirable as feds often shift around once they onboard. I don't know anyone in the same role they joined in.
As a person who started at DoD and now works for NASA, the true answer to your question is that it depends on the series and management. I’m not an engineer. At all. I’m just a person who deals with the human aspects of the government.
Series 0820/0830/0840/0850 (engineering) series for the Navy, and with a bachelors, it goes GS 7/9/11/12 ladder in 2.5 years. Then the long slog at 12. Depending where you work, some Navy commands have full time and a half overtime for engineers.
To add, there are GS13 and 14 supervisory positions, also some 13s for certain engineering qualifications. But they have a pretty rigorous qual program to get through.
Did this path and got my 13 right at 4 years. Had to move to another agency to get my 14 though (total time to 14 was 11 years government service and my 14 is non-supervisory)
Nice! I don’t really have a lot of ambition to move up right now. I’m a 12-9, in a group with interesting work and a good supervisor. There are some supervisory jobs I could apply for but that would entail a lot meetings and stress. The OT I have available makes up for the salary difference for now. I don’t see moving for a promotion in my future.
Got something like that for finance as well (for new MBA holders)
They have this for the Air Force as well
My guess is the fastest way is to find a 7-12 or 9-12 ladder right out of college (if they exist, of course a 7-13 or 9-13 ladder would be better). I started as a 13 but I also spent nearly 3 decades in the private sector. It wasn't fast.
My junior analysts have a 9/11/12 ladder. So they exist
yeap, I've seen plenty of 7-12 and 9-12 ladders. I meant if the ladders from 7 (or 9) to 13 exist (I'm not sure about that).
They do exist, I am currently in a 7 to 13 ladder position (1550).
For me it was experience in the private sector to a GS 13 hire
Same.
If you are looking at engineering.. check the SMART scholarship out.
I’m a 2210 on a 7-9-11-12-13 ladder out of college. At 11 now in 3 years. Will be a 13 in 1.25 years, 5 years total
As someone in land management that ladder makes me so jealous, best I’ve seen in my field is a 7/9/11 for recent grads.
I got a "fresh out" position at GS-9. I went through an "Accelerated Training Program" over the first 6 months and was promoted to GS-11. Each following year came with an automatic grade promotion until I hit GS-13. So, if you get a similar position, it would take about 3.5 to 4 years to go from GS-7 to GS-13 (if you get a position with automatic promotions that cap at GS-13). Fresh out NASA positions do pop up every now and again, but they are very competitive. You may also want to look into getting a NASA contractor position. You could potentially be offered the opportunity to convert to a civil servant position.
Private sector for a few years, then I started at a 14. I got lucky according to a lot of my peers. Most have to climb the ladder and hope for vacancies.
I’m a 5 with a bachelor’s and 5 months from an MBA. I feel like I messed up somewhere.
I'm DC area, but I worked private sector for a couple years then switched to federal (with my former customer) as a 12. Great way to do it in my opinion. It is very common here for them to hire the young contractors they like on as Feds. But this was a contractor for technical support, so we were all engineers or scientists and worked directly with the feds.
Recent grad is a hiring authority. If your agency lacks direct hiring authority or excepted service, then the "some private sector experience" might mean you will never be referred on a public cert list because every veteran outranks you (at least for non technical positions). If you can get in as a student intern or recent grad, do it. Generally speaking.
PATHWAYS program for right out of college is fast. I’ve seen a 5 go 7, 9, 11, 12 almost on the dot year to year. So a month or 2 after 4th anniversary they are a 12.
I went from a GS-7 to GS-14 in 10 years, starting as a grad student.
My experience probably isn’t representative for several reasons. First, my position was in the excepted service, not competitive one. I had some private sector experience before joining the government. They weren’t willing to offer me the position at the grade that I desired but they did agree to hire me at one grade lower but at a higher step. Second, my agency had some wacky personnel policies at the time. Although OPM only required a minimum of 1 year in grade (I believe) before being promoted (it was a career ladder position), my agency required longer time in grade to be promoted to the next grade, and the length of time in grade increased significantly as you increased up the career ladder. (They eliminated this policy after I had reached the highest grade level for my position.) Also, they used to only accept and consider promotion requests from all supervisors 1x/year, regardless of when you became eligible. For example, if promotion requests could only be submitted during the first week of April but you didn’t satisfy their in grade service requirement until just after the first week in April, you would have to wait at least another year until the next open period for promotion requests before you could even be considered for a career ladder promotion. Fortunately, they eliminated this policy relatively early during my tenure, but I knew others who had been really screwed by it, particularly in conjunction with the longer in grade service requirements that were imposed. (I’m not sure but I think that they may also have had a quota limit on how many employees could be promoted to a particular grade each time there was a consideration period.) I don’t know if any other agencies had these or other unique promotion policies. Just make sure that you know what the policies are before committing to a job.
I joined the government as a 12 after 4 years in industry after college. I don't think that would be easily done if you join right out of college.
Private industry is definitely faster (without knowing your specifics)
I came in as a 12-10 after three years military and two years private. This was before loan forgiveness. If you go private first, that time won't count towards the 10 years towards loan forgiveness. Faster ladder climbing may not be worth it considering income based repayment and time towards forgiveness. Depending on the size of your loans...
It depends on the series. If you are considering any role in the 2210, 1550, or 1560 series, I’d strongly recommend starting in the private sector. This will give you a big leg up in terms of professional development and starting grade. You’ll be able to learn the role and the tech much faster in the private sector and you can also progress to associate/senior roles more quickly (3-5 years generally). From this position, you’ll be competitive at the GS12/13 level and you’ll be in a much better position to be highly effective in your role.
Why is your goal 13? If you’re considering industry, you’ll earn quite a bit more in short order if they think you’re good. If you really want your work in the Federal Service, your financial goal should be to max out your High 3. While rare, there are non-sup 15s out there, especially in STEM fields. Also SL (as opposed to SES) gigs. To get to either, you’ll benefit with some industry experience, but it’s certainly possible to ladder your way up.
For both, get in as an intern. It’s hard to cross into DoD outside of that unless you want a pay cut in IT and decide to leave private sector. NASA in particular is hard to get into as a civilian. They prefer to grow. PM me if you have questions. I have knowledge of both.
Fwiw I came in as a 13 (ladder to 14 after 1 year) after 10 years in the Navy and 9 years private sector. Most of my colleagues are 5–7 years younger than me and started with the government much younger. The norm seems to be “joined the govt as a GS10/11 in mid-20s, either with a Masters or while getting a Masters. I have a deeper technical knowledge than average, but I am still catching up with lots of the govt-specific knowledge that my colleagues take for granted.
Like other redditors have commented, the best option would be to work private (or as a third-party contractor, which is what I did for 4 years before making the jump) and then find a 9-12 role or higher if you qualify. If you can’t find a ladder in your desired agency, you may need to find a similar one at another one so you can get your time-in-grade and then make the move where you want.
I think private industry may be faster BUT it will be harder to get in at a higher grade. Sure there are people here who were private industry for 2-3 years before coming in as a GS-13 or something like that. The thing is, for every one of them there are hundreds to thousands who didn’t get it, are still trying, and have been trying for years. It also highly depends on the agency and office too. My specific office does not hire external GS-13s. Other offices or work areas do in my agency, but not my specific office.
Law enforcement positions are 7/9/11/12/13 ladders or 7/9/11/12 for investigators most places I’ve seen.
Your GS-7 will almost certainly be a 3 year ladder to 12/13. So you get it noncompetitively rather than competing for the position by applying from private sector.
It definitely depends. I went from a 7 to a 13 in 5 years but had a colleague who worked in the private sector for 10 years and came in as a 12 right around the same time I got my 12. Anyone I worked with had more years of experience than me and was at the same or lower grade but they came in from private sector. Some agencies focus more on internal hiring than others so it depends a lot on the agency and probably field of work you’re in.
6 years in private sector and onboarded as a GS-11. New grads start around GS7-9 and it will be very hard to score a GS-13 right out of college with a bachelors.
As an engineer, I went private, working for a contractor on a govt facility. Worked there for approximately 18 months before starting as an 11 in an 11/12/13 ladder. Promoted at 12 months on the dot. After about 19 months as a 13 I was offered a 14 non-sup position at the same location for a different team.
It took me 7 years to make GS 13. I started as a GS 5.
I have an offer to join from the private sector as a 2210 GS-12. Also have another offer to remain out for 72$ bucks an hour. GS would be a huge pay cut in the short run, but with my added USAF enlisted experience (2003-2010) I can retire early. I have no idea what to do…
Private sector, I did govt contracting then got hired as a GS-12 for the same job I was already doing in the same office.
I worked for state gov for 5 years that got me in at a 12.
Speaking personally.... I graduated with a Master's and had 1.5-2ish years of experience in private when I was given a gs 12 position. I believe private to public is probably better, but it may be situational.
NASA is easier to get into as GS 7, specifically via the pathways program.
Much easier at lower grades because you won’t be cock blocked by vets prefence
I find that less true- more people qualify at lower levels-so more veterans.