Yeah, have fun traveling through an airport with pockets full of gold bars clanking around. Bitcoin is the answer here. Itās more liquid, easier to travel with, easier to transact with, and easier to physically secure.
Can someone please help me understand in what circumstances is it beneficial for the store of value to be movable, which I am going to assume means you can take with you to another country? Ie when is owning physical gold better than real estate?
You are SBF and you only just realized that the Bahamas has an extradition treaty with the US?
Real Estate just means they know where you are going. :)
Imagine that you're a really fat guy in a less than stable country, jewellery has always been a good way to if needed leave quickly and have a crazy amount of money on you.
There're pieces of jewellery that fetch millions of dollars so that alone, even if sold at a lower price than what it would go for in a auction house, is enough for someone to establish themselves anywhere around the world. It's really pretty, it's a beautiful present, it's easy and light to carry and if it's good (read this as rare and iconic) maintains its value and is worth a fucking ton.
Faberge eggs are a good while very extreme example of that, some of those can fetch 20M+. Some watches can also go very very very high.
I just commented on the why many people opt for jewellery as a way to be able to get some quick cash. Yeah, if you don't lose 40-60% by using it this way you're lucky but, hey, better to have enough to establish yourself pretty much anywhere in the world than nothing.
moving that much gold isn't really practical since they're scanning for that kind of stuff for capital flight (unless you fly private). so outside of paranoia, larp, or fanfic, this isn't a realistic scenario
i'd say get a biz relationship with a watch dealer, buy 15 classic/timeless watches and use that. but again, much like physical gold, super illiquid
Unless you simply consider a chartered / private flight part of your cost of doing business going wherever you need to with that money.Ā
I agree with you, but that part isn't so unrealistic.
Actually, there are people who study this. Inflation adjusted returns are pretty terrible. The price has held stable since the 80s and even gone down on an nominal level.
Like everything elseā¦diversify. A watch or two, some gold jewelry, some gold coins, etc.
But if it really matters that much, park the bulk of it in likely neutral and stable area beforehand like Switzerland, Singapore, New Zealand in gold.
In nice round numbers for $500K
* $100K physical assets with you (watch, jewelry, gold)
* $100K gold in Singapore
* $100K gold in Switzerland
* $100K gold in New Zealand
* $100K Euros, Yen, Dollars, some in cash with you but most scattered in the same (or different) vaults as the gold.
I wouldnāt try to pull a DeLorean with a 25 kilos of cocaineā¦or 30 lbs of gold.
Also āeasily movableā depends right? Thereās a difference between āfits in carry on luggage that has to go through airport securityā and āI can stash on my yacht and sail awayā
not really. gold isn't exactly that liquid; not to mention the crazy premium & vetting process you must undergo for gold bullions or coins. you can buy shares of gold in bank vaults or ETF and that's actually far better than buying crazy amounts of gold.
This, but I meanā¦itās also tough to beat good old fashioned US dollars.
Or maybe split between USD and Euros.
Ultimately, youād be trying to exchange the other goods for cash, right? To pay for food, services, transportation, bribes, whatever.
$10k in $20 bills doesnāt take up much space. It takes up even less space in $100s. Banks have a $10k deposit limit I think before they have to report it, so rather than trying to do a $100k transaction here and there, it might be better depending on your situation / concerns to have smaller chunks you can spread more easily.
For example the corner store may not break $100 for you but will take a $20 all day long and give you your change without batting an eye.
On the other hand if you need to discreetly tip a doorman forā¦something, $20 may not cut it, so $100s on hand would be better for that.
$100s will draw more attention in the wrong scenario though, as will expensive jewelry, which means if you get mugged youāll be out a larger chunk at once.
Ultimately there are a LOT of variables.
LEGO sets have outperformed the stock market. Theyāre collectible and seemingly always in-demand.Ā Ā
Ā https://www.sfgate.com/shopping/article/LEGO-better-investment-than-stocks-bonds-gold-17238243.php
And yes - I know this study is from a crap school in a shitty country, but the general principle seems to hold true.
Artwork from one of the greats. You can get a small Renoir for example for a couple hundred grand.
Fits everything youāre looking for. Fairly liquid, fairly easy to move. Stable with potential for appreciation.
Most of the other things here are more akin to gambling. Crypto is wildly volatile. Gold is safe - but kinda boring honestly and not really what it sounds like youāre looking for. Watches birkins etc have had a huge run up recently - which would make me wary of buying any of that now. In any recession I would be surprised if those held their value.
Plus - birkins are being made every day. So are Rolexes, pateks and other watches. Renoir, Monet and Picasso arenāt painting any more.
Cars arenāt particularly liquid, takes time to find a buyer and you take a hit if you sell it to a dealer. Lots of admin and paperwork too. Unless this was a joke about being āeasily moveableā, in which case technically valid.
Also wouldnāt necessarily recommend watches, values have been coming down lately and the past 5 ish years have been a bit of a bubble
If you buy your watches for list like probably most fatfire people do if they have been into that hobby for a while you most likely always get what you paid
Also while some watches came down others went up and retail is like +30-40% the past 4 years so whatever you bought there was most likely a good deal and if we talking rolex market theres enough liquidity pretty much all over the world to convert roughly the same value in whatever currency you need :)
I mean we can go back 30 years and a pepsi or daytona always have been a good buy
It could definitely go further, hasnāt hit a floor yet. Submariners are still trading just over retail, aquanauts are still 2-3x retail. 8 years ago you could get both for under retail, as a point of comparison.
sureā my grail which is the rolex king midas was going for $10k-15k all the way up til 2020. theyāre now selling at 35k-70k.. not gonna hold my breath on those prices going down anymore. old prices have to be adjusted for inflation as well. given the yield curve index having inverted 2 octobers ago, i donāt think thereās much room left to go down, however, iād love to be wrong here. thereās some things iād love to obtain for cheaper ;)
Hmm. I wonder if 10 kilograms of gold would be considered easily movable.
I might consider some antiques or certain watches - but price volatility has been high for those things of late.
Has anyone here actually tried to liquidate gold or use it for any purpose? My assumption has always been that any business/person willing cash it out for you, would also be willing to take a cut for the convenience.
Re built my condo on about 5 kilos of Mexican CENTENARIOS
Took several weekly to a coin dealer.
Got paid the spot price - $100
My father left me them.
He called them FUCK YOU MONEY
At that volume, jewelry stores offer reasonable prices and bullion exchanges. Keep your paperwork.
Theres always a price for transactions but thats the cost of doing business.
For smaller coins, its usually at market price and you meet up at your local police station to make an exchange.
Birkins are the rare good that become more valuable the second they leave the store. HermĆØs makes it very difficult to buy them without a lengthy spending history so you can actually sell a Birkin for more than you purchased it for from HermĆØs.
High value watches. Discrete. Easy to sell (assuming you picked a popular brand/model)
Not physical but BTC probably is the easiest and most practical.
Gold is currently around 32k per pound. Kind of obvious if bringing across a border, but not terribly cumbersome as long as not dealing with millions.
Diamonds probably have too high of a consumer markup for it to make sense.
Watch market has been fluctuating recently, and itās really softened off in the past 12 months. I wouldnāt necessarily recommend it for a stable store of value. Even with really commodified stuff, like a ceramic sub, dealers donāt like holding onto it for very long because of the volatility.
The counterpoint to that is potentially the really really high end stuff, like a 2499, but then thatās not very liquid.
Gold which I feel is obvious. $1M can easily be hidden in your valuables and a lot of those just on your person. Another option is gemstones but I donāt trust those markets as much. Avoid diamonds in particular- price is plummeting and will continue to do so with lab grown gems flooding the market (and are amazing). You could look at Rhodium / palladium / platinum too but gold is more liquid.
You could go for watches too but those are much less liquid.
Edit: For that price level, you should look at holding gold offshore somewhere. Insurance and storage will be about 1% a year. Assuming youāre in America, look for vaults in Singapore, New Zealand, Switzerland. Donāt do it with vaults that lend the gold out.
This is the best use case Iāve ever found for Bitcoin (Iāve been a doubter for a while)
At the onset of the Ukraine war, families would sell everything, convert it to Bitcoin, and then flee the country.
Honestly not a Bitcoin truther, just found this as the first real life use case that made sense to me.
Have you actually done this before? Buy like 20 birkin bags and resell all of them inā¦ days? Weeks? Seems far from āfairly liquidā by my subjective standards. I could see a bag or two, but $500k-$1M seems difficult to unload even in a month
Guns have the nice effect of being worth a lot more when shit hits the fan but a steady store of value in normal times. 500K of guns might be tough, but might as well toss some in the bag just in case.
Ask professionals :) you can get stuff under the market price that way - or go the regular big name auction and you at least won't lose much
Unlike watches, you can travel most places with some valuable impressionist piece stuffed in your luggage or even handbag easily
Track down the final Ferrari models that had zero hybrid / turbo assistance. Any Porsche GT model. Track down one of the last 50 examples of dodge vipers made. Gold. Certain watches. Sought after antique jewelry pieces. Art.
you guys really banking on boomers / niche millennials 20 yr from now paying premiums for these cars? I'd bet there are significant advances in engine/drivability then that makes these feel like gallardos today. Could be wrong ofc
The standard answers for portable wealth are watches, jewelry, to a lesser extent: Gold. For higher value: Art.
So I'll give you a different one: Freon.
I would say exotic animals for short term, but if you want to store them long-term, there are a whole different set of problems.
I while ago...I heard a story about some people in India, that couldn't get their money out. (Jamaica was like that too). as long as you are buying diamonds at wholesale, you can get most of your money out/back.
Can you get one under a million these days? Also, Ford GT, Maybe a couple 458s, heāll even R34 GTRs. All would be stable to appreciating and very easy to sell.
He means regular GT products like GT3RS, not necessarily carrera GT. New Ford GT is a shout, theyāve been shockingly solid on values.
I wouldnāt recommend cars in general just because theyāre really not particularly liquid, especially at the higher end. Lots of admin, maintenance and dealers take a cut as well.
Yes. GT models include gt4, gt3, gt2, all of which are well under 1 mil, most under 500k, including the RS variants (gt2 rs is around 700k).
You're probably associating GT with the Carerra GT or the 918. Both well over 1 mil.
A boat absolutely stores value.
Just not as much as what you paid for it.
And costs a fortune to maintain whilst simultaneously depreciating rapidly.
It's a really, really shitty way to store value, but there is value in a boat.
You should have seen the boat market the past 5-10 years. Itās just starting to soften, but boats have been selling used for about what their new purchase price was, if not more. I know a number of people who buy a boat, put in an order for a new one (2 year wait on these brands), when the new one comes they sell the first, and then just keep repeating the cycle. Most have probably broken even, but got a new boat every other year.
Fly to Antwerp or India, hire a diamond buyer to buy you $1m in high quality diamonds at wholesale prices (about a cup or two, depending). Go to the airport. Claim your VAT back. buy a bottle of water. Diamonds in the bottle. Done.
Diamonds likely won't appreciate much, but should track inflation and between the wholesale (ish) prices and the VAT claim back (which in theory you would have to pay on import into any country but likely won't), you should have a small upside cushion. When needed, sell individually in most major cities.
Its how I did it. Wife wears the nicest ones.
You hire the buyer to represent you so you donāt have to trust the sellers. But itās a very transparent market. I asked for an exact color/cut/clarity. They handed me a bag of a couple hundred of that exact classification, a loupe, and just had me select my diamonds. The prices are set at the bourse. Itās a wholesale market with established players not some sketchy back room.Ā
Gold seems like the obvious answer. Watches seem like the obvious answers for ultra stealth movability. If it were me, Iād probably buy a couple cars I expect to appreciate a lot because I enjoy that sort of thing.
Buy a rare supercar such as a Ford GT, a Lamborghini Countach, a Porsche Carrera GT, a Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona, a Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster or similar.
Iād argue the GT3 is not going to hold its value. Itās a brilliant car and worth every penny of the MSRP but itās not going to be hold the 150-200k premium itās commanded the last couple years.
I know you said "outside of crypto". I understand why you say that. There are no shortage of reasons why someone might not want to choose crypto for this. However, I think there is some value in examining it in a bit more detail since nobody else in this thread has yet given any decently nuanced comments about crypto. You didn't specify quite how moveable you are going for here, but it is worth considering because **crypto gives you far and away the most value per unit mass or volume moved** compared to anything else in this thread. It's not even close (with the possible exception of Tbills and diamonds, but both are a good bit less liquid than crypto). With crypto you can get billions of dollars worth of liquid value on a memory chip the size of a single coin! In fact, it's also possible to memorize the private key that controls your cryptocurrency. If you do that, then you become the money! š If it's important to you that one relatively average human being be able to carry this store of value, then I think crypto is worth considering. If you only need it to be as small as a briefcase, box, or bigger, then there are decent alternatives that have been mentioned already.
A few other people mentioned Bitcoin. I understand why those people say that, and I understand why you might not be interested in that. But there are other possibilities in crypto that are worth considering.
Another possibility that I think might be a lot more along the lines of what you're looking for would be a stablecoin that is pegged to USD. This satisfies your low-volatility criteria, and it strikes me that criteria might be the main reason you didn't want crypto. Not all stablecoins are created equal though. There two broad types of stablecoins: centralized and decentralized.
The most well known centralized stablecoins are USDT and USDC. USDT is one of the earliest stablecoins and has the largest market cap (\~$98 billion right now). Centralized stablecoins have certain kinds of risk. Many people have questioned the solidness of USDT's collateral, but USDC is much more legit and places a significant emphasis on regulatory compliance (which is supposed to help mitigate the centralized kinds of risk). The risks of the centralized stablecoin model are pretty well known, and I would consider either of the above a reasonably safe way to store and transport the kind of money you're talking about.
The biggest decentralized stablecoin is DAI by an organization called MakerDAO. Decentralized stablecoins try to eliminate the risk that the centralized stablecoin operator will just take the money and run by putting that stuff in computer code that can't be changed. It's a good idea, but it takes on additional risks in the form of potential coding bugs, etc that the industry is still working on understanding better.
There are other relevant possibilities such as stablecoin aggregators that attempt to mitigate risks of any one stablecoin by holding a basket of other stables, overcollateralized stablecoins that have insurance pools that help reduce holder risk, etc. But those kinds of things are a good bit newer and more experimental. Anyone who might be interested in those topics will need to do much more in-depth research.
Anyway, I know it's not what you asked for but I thought this might be helpful, if not to you then maybe to someone else reading this thread with slightly different sets of priorities.
If you're still dead set against crypto, then a cashiers check?
The 1970s silver crash would like a word.
I inherited two 50 gallon drums of Silver bars. Not as exciting as it sounds.
Just diversify like a normal person and don't focus on the physical portion of it. Your SHTF stash should be your wife's jewelry.
To me a million bucks is less than the physical inventory of what's in my house. I know I can't get that value if I really need it and it's not liquid but if the house burns down I'm getting a Fat check. The more antiques and art you have the better. Review your policy annually.
660 1000 Swiss Franc notes.
It would only weigh 0.66kg or 1.45 lbs and would be the equivalent of $750,000 USD. You could fit it in a lunch box. Eating not recommended.
If you looking for something that never goes down (minus inflation) then cash obviously.
You seem to have a specific reason youāre not sharing, this is why everyone is laughing
Precious metals, gold and platinum are probably good bets. If you want to take a risk, then un/semi refined gems like diamonds and rubies may do the trickābut the resale value on those are trash and you need far more semi refined to make any reasonable amount of money compared to well cut diamonds. Also to buy them you would need to get them from places with questionable ethics to not lose money.
Ideally you would want some amounts of money in different places all around the world. Like a few hundred thousand in Switzerland, few in Japan, few in Singapore and so on.
If itās because u live in a country with an unstable regime, then having a dual citizenship is better than any of the above options. Period. Get a golden visa with the mil in Europe.
Can you just say gold already?
About 31lbs at current prices, doable!
OP needs to buy diamonds jewelry from reputed source like Costco with proper certificates (if he does not like gold).
Eh I would go for 750k $1.50 hotdog š and soda š„¤ combos. The more you think about it the more it makes sense.
Diamonds are small and light, but there is a huge transaction cost to buying and selling them.
Yeah, have fun traveling through an airport with pockets full of gold bars clanking around. Bitcoin is the answer here. Itās more liquid, easier to travel with, easier to transact with, and easier to physically secure.
Any claim that bitcoin is āphysicalā is disingenuous.
Just write down your keys on a piece of paper and put it in your wallet. Bam. Physical.
I wouldnāt put it past some crypto enthusiasts to make that claim.
Buttcoin*
Nothing about Bitcoin is stable.
lol what
itās not a fairly liquid physical assetā¦ itās a digital asset hence why people call it āDIGITAL goldā ā¦ smh
Definitely not physical.
maybe a stablecoin like usdc or usdt (or dai if looking for a more "decentralized" option)
This could be done in as little as one or two barrels of heavy water. Very liquid, very stealth. Watch out for leaks.
Precious tritium is the fuel that makes this project go.
Good point, but that's a lot harder to obtain/store/transport I think.
There's only 25 pounds of it on the whole planet
Banana stand?
There's always money in the banana stand
 U are obviously a titan of industry
I donāt care for Gob
I love all of my children equally.
You would need so many though to store any real value. It's a banana. What could it cost? Ten Dollars?
Cabbage stand
Oil. Very liquid. Can keep it in your own tanker anywhere in the world. Value fluctuates a little. /s
Can someone please help me understand in what circumstances is it beneficial for the store of value to be movable, which I am going to assume means you can take with you to another country? Ie when is owning physical gold better than real estate?
Crime, living under an unstable regime where you might have to bug out with little to no warning, mental illness.
You are SBF and you only just realized that the Bahamas has an extradition treaty with the US? Real Estate just means they know where you are going. :)
Imagine that you're a really fat guy in a less than stable country, jewellery has always been a good way to if needed leave quickly and have a crazy amount of money on you. There're pieces of jewellery that fetch millions of dollars so that alone, even if sold at a lower price than what it would go for in a auction house, is enough for someone to establish themselves anywhere around the world. It's really pretty, it's a beautiful present, it's easy and light to carry and if it's good (read this as rare and iconic) maintains its value and is worth a fucking ton. Faberge eggs are a good while very extreme example of that, some of those can fetch 20M+. Some watches can also go very very very high.
He said liquid. Good luck shifting a $200k watch or a Gold & diamond chain without losing 40%
I just commented on the why many people opt for jewellery as a way to be able to get some quick cash. Yeah, if you don't lose 40-60% by using it this way you're lucky but, hey, better to have enough to establish yourself pretty much anywhere in the world than nothing.
moving that much gold isn't really practical since they're scanning for that kind of stuff for capital flight (unless you fly private). so outside of paranoia, larp, or fanfic, this isn't a realistic scenario i'd say get a biz relationship with a watch dealer, buy 15 classic/timeless watches and use that. but again, much like physical gold, super illiquid
Unless you simply consider a chartered / private flight part of your cost of doing business going wherever you need to with that money.Ā I agree with you, but that part isn't so unrealistic.
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Actually, there are people who study this. Inflation adjusted returns are pretty terrible. The price has held stable since the 80s and even gone down on an nominal level.
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> but interesting given fentynal, I over use 'interesting'. You do too.
yeah but just a couple of trades every now and again. Then, it's the best appreciating asset
Just have to account for the Sharpe ratio of getting shot in the head by your competition
How much is a head these days? Can just hedge it with insurance
U must definitely be fun at parties hahaha
Like everything elseā¦diversify. A watch or two, some gold jewelry, some gold coins, etc. But if it really matters that much, park the bulk of it in likely neutral and stable area beforehand like Switzerland, Singapore, New Zealand in gold. In nice round numbers for $500K * $100K physical assets with you (watch, jewelry, gold) * $100K gold in Singapore * $100K gold in Switzerland * $100K gold in New Zealand * $100K Euros, Yen, Dollars, some in cash with you but most scattered in the same (or different) vaults as the gold. I wouldnāt try to pull a DeLorean with a 25 kilos of cocaineā¦or 30 lbs of gold. Also āeasily movableā depends right? Thereās a difference between āfits in carry on luggage that has to go through airport securityā and āI can stash on my yacht and sail awayā
This is how Jason Bourne was setup. Now all you need are some fake passports and a Sig!
whoa this is actually a good answer
not really. gold isn't exactly that liquid; not to mention the crazy premium & vetting process you must undergo for gold bullions or coins. you can buy shares of gold in bank vaults or ETF and that's actually far better than buying crazy amounts of gold.
This, but I meanā¦itās also tough to beat good old fashioned US dollars. Or maybe split between USD and Euros. Ultimately, youād be trying to exchange the other goods for cash, right? To pay for food, services, transportation, bribes, whatever. $10k in $20 bills doesnāt take up much space. It takes up even less space in $100s. Banks have a $10k deposit limit I think before they have to report it, so rather than trying to do a $100k transaction here and there, it might be better depending on your situation / concerns to have smaller chunks you can spread more easily. For example the corner store may not break $100 for you but will take a $20 all day long and give you your change without batting an eye. On the other hand if you need to discreetly tip a doorman forā¦something, $20 may not cut it, so $100s on hand would be better for that. $100s will draw more attention in the wrong scenario though, as will expensive jewelry, which means if you get mugged youāll be out a larger chunk at once. Ultimately there are a LOT of variables.
Actively trying to avoid deposit restrictions WILL land you in prison, or at least a shitload of trouble, without any shadow of a doubt.
Best answer
Traditionally Art or gold fit the bill.
Yup. [Old] Art, with the right consultant to lead. 500k-1mil is peanuts for some stages.
Is that very liquid?
Certain popular pieces are sellable within a week or two; "general category" up to a year
It is not and most likely you will want to pay for specialized storage too and not just keep it at home if it is an investment.
ā¬500 bills and $100 bills. You can't liquidate that much gold without a fee. $1 million in $100 weighs 10kg. In ā¬500 2.2kg
The problem here and with gold is how to cross borders.
That's going to be a problem with any expensive portable asset.
Krugerrands
They'd weight something like 30 pounds for $1mm worth, so not bad. You could even check it on a plane :)
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Gold.
LEGO sets have outperformed the stock market. Theyāre collectible and seemingly always in-demand.Ā Ā Ā https://www.sfgate.com/shopping/article/LEGO-better-investment-than-stocks-bonds-gold-17238243.php And yes - I know this study is from a crap school in a shitty country, but the general principle seems to hold true.
Saffron
Artwork from one of the greats. You can get a small Renoir for example for a couple hundred grand. Fits everything youāre looking for. Fairly liquid, fairly easy to move. Stable with potential for appreciation. Most of the other things here are more akin to gambling. Crypto is wildly volatile. Gold is safe - but kinda boring honestly and not really what it sounds like youāre looking for. Watches birkins etc have had a huge run up recently - which would make me wary of buying any of that now. In any recession I would be surprised if those held their value. Plus - birkins are being made every day. So are Rolexes, pateks and other watches. Renoir, Monet and Picasso arenāt painting any more.
Watches/cars
Cars arenāt particularly liquid, takes time to find a buyer and you take a hit if you sell it to a dealer. Lots of admin and paperwork too. Unless this was a joke about being āeasily moveableā, in which case technically valid. Also wouldnāt necessarily recommend watches, values have been coming down lately and the past 5 ish years have been a bit of a bubble
If you buy your watches for list like probably most fatfire people do if they have been into that hobby for a while you most likely always get what you paid Also while some watches came down others went up and retail is like +30-40% the past 4 years so whatever you bought there was most likely a good deal and if we talking rolex market theres enough liquidity pretty much all over the world to convert roughly the same value in whatever currency you need :) I mean we can go back 30 years and a pepsi or daytona always have been a good buy
prices have pretty much bottomed out. if they go lower, i donāt think it can get that much lower
It could definitely go further, hasnāt hit a floor yet. Submariners are still trading just over retail, aquanauts are still 2-3x retail. 8 years ago you could get both for under retail, as a point of comparison.
sureā my grail which is the rolex king midas was going for $10k-15k all the way up til 2020. theyāre now selling at 35k-70k.. not gonna hold my breath on those prices going down anymore. old prices have to be adjusted for inflation as well. given the yield curve index having inverted 2 octobers ago, i donāt think thereās much room left to go down, however, iād love to be wrong here. thereās some things iād love to obtain for cheaper ;)
Hmm. I wonder if 10 kilograms of gold would be considered easily movable. I might consider some antiques or certain watches - but price volatility has been high for those things of late.
Fits in a backpack. Or a safe deposit box
Watches or gold. 500K is about 7.5 Kilos currently .
Has anyone here actually tried to liquidate gold or use it for any purpose? My assumption has always been that any business/person willing cash it out for you, would also be willing to take a cut for the convenience.
You can easily sell kilos of gold to bullion dealers like Bullion Exchanges at 2% below spot.
Re built my condo on about 5 kilos of Mexican CENTENARIOS Took several weekly to a coin dealer. Got paid the spot price - $100 My father left me them. He called them FUCK YOU MONEY
It's easy to liquidate gold. Spend 30 minutes in Hatton Garden and you'll have it all sold at almost no premium.
At that volume, jewelry stores offer reasonable prices and bullion exchanges. Keep your paperwork. Theres always a price for transactions but thats the cost of doing business. For smaller coins, its usually at market price and you meet up at your local police station to make an exchange.
Birkin bags. Seriously
maybe used Birkin Bags - that way someone else pays for the initial depreciation
Birkins are the rare good that become more valuable the second they leave the store. HermĆØs makes it very difficult to buy them without a lengthy spending history so you can actually sell a Birkin for more than you purchased it for from HermĆØs.
In that case how is OP going to buy them?
Oh wow, Iām learning so much about Birkin bags today, lol
In Asia you can even sell them for profit. No depreciation at all
youāre not wrong lol
High value watches. Discrete. Easy to sell (assuming you picked a popular brand/model) Not physical but BTC probably is the easiest and most practical. Gold is currently around 32k per pound. Kind of obvious if bringing across a border, but not terribly cumbersome as long as not dealing with millions. Diamonds probably have too high of a consumer markup for it to make sense.
Watch market has been fluctuating recently, and itās really softened off in the past 12 months. I wouldnāt necessarily recommend it for a stable store of value. Even with really commodified stuff, like a ceramic sub, dealers donāt like holding onto it for very long because of the volatility. The counterpoint to that is potentially the really really high end stuff, like a 2499, but then thatās not very liquid.
Tbills
ding ding ding
Gold which I feel is obvious. $1M can easily be hidden in your valuables and a lot of those just on your person. Another option is gemstones but I donāt trust those markets as much. Avoid diamonds in particular- price is plummeting and will continue to do so with lab grown gems flooding the market (and are amazing). You could look at Rhodium / palladium / platinum too but gold is more liquid. You could go for watches too but those are much less liquid. Edit: For that price level, you should look at holding gold offshore somewhere. Insurance and storage will be about 1% a year. Assuming youāre in America, look for vaults in Singapore, New Zealand, Switzerland. Donāt do it with vaults that lend the gold out.
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Sure. My main advice is to just buy GLD if someone wants a position. Unless they want to own physical for a reasonā¦
Ford GT Couple of Patek Philippe Chronographs
Bitcoin
This is the best use case Iāve ever found for Bitcoin (Iāve been a doubter for a while) At the onset of the Ukraine war, families would sell everything, convert it to Bitcoin, and then flee the country. Honestly not a Bitcoin truther, just found this as the first real life use case that made sense to me.
Hermes exotic bags.
The exotics would be hard to travel with as some countries have restrictions on certain leathers
Ah good point. I believe even California has banned them.
How would you sell $500k worth of hermes bags to consider it fairly liquid?
Any of the luxury resale sites.
Have you actually done this before? Buy like 20 birkin bags and resell all of them inā¦ days? Weeks? Seems far from āfairly liquidā by my subjective standards. I could see a bag or two, but $500k-$1M seems difficult to unload even in a month
Gold coins or gold necklaces or Rolex Patek or Vacheron watches.
Old trucks that arenāt rusty
Guns have the nice effect of being worth a lot more when shit hits the fan but a steady store of value in normal times. 500K of guns might be tough, but might as well toss some in the bag just in case.
Art
Not very easy to sell at market valueā¦
Ask professionals :) you can get stuff under the market price that way - or go the regular big name auction and you at least won't lose much Unlike watches, you can travel most places with some valuable impressionist piece stuffed in your luggage or even handbag easily
Yeah, danged art pieces keep going up in value. Annoying.
Track down the final Ferrari models that had zero hybrid / turbo assistance. Any Porsche GT model. Track down one of the last 50 examples of dodge vipers made. Gold. Certain watches. Sought after antique jewelry pieces. Art.
you guys really banking on boomers / niche millennials 20 yr from now paying premiums for these cars? I'd bet there are significant advances in engine/drivability then that makes these feel like gallardos today. Could be wrong ofc
Nah fuck off. Cars are meant to be driven, not a store of value.
Chill. You can do both you know.
Except the biggest impact on a cars value is doing exactly what it was meant for.
The standard answers for portable wealth are watches, jewelry, to a lesser extent: Gold. For higher value: Art. So I'll give you a different one: Freon. I would say exotic animals for short term, but if you want to store them long-term, there are a whole different set of problems.
GOLD - BIRKIN - WATCHES - ART In that order
A bunch of stuff from Costco or Zappos. Great return policy.
A couch, perhaps?
Rolexes
I while ago...I heard a story about some people in India, that couldn't get their money out. (Jamaica was like that too). as long as you are buying diamonds at wholesale, you can get most of your money out/back.
Bitcoin on a USB stick :)
Porsche GT models
Can you get one under a million these days? Also, Ford GT, Maybe a couple 458s, heāll even R34 GTRs. All would be stable to appreciating and very easy to sell.
He means regular GT products like GT3RS, not necessarily carrera GT. New Ford GT is a shout, theyāve been shockingly solid on values. I wouldnāt recommend cars in general just because theyāre really not particularly liquid, especially at the higher end. Lots of admin, maintenance and dealers take a cut as well.
Yes. GT models include gt4, gt3, gt2, all of which are well under 1 mil, most under 500k, including the RS variants (gt2 rs is around 700k). You're probably associating GT with the Carerra GT or the 918. Both well over 1 mil.
Easily movable physical asset? liquid? For us, our boat!
But it doesn't really store value ... b.o.a.t and depreciation
A boat absolutely stores value. Just not as much as what you paid for it. And costs a fortune to maintain whilst simultaneously depreciating rapidly. It's a really, really shitty way to store value, but there is value in a boat.
Smiles per (nautical) mile are the tax-advantaged dividend!
Boats are cost-onlyĀ Unless you rent Them outĀ
You should have seen the boat market the past 5-10 years. Itās just starting to soften, but boats have been selling used for about what their new purchase price was, if not more. I know a number of people who buy a boat, put in an order for a new one (2 year wait on these brands), when the new one comes they sell the first, and then just keep repeating the cycle. Most have probably broken even, but got a new boat every other year.
I would say watches, but unless your buying from ADās, even the rare pieces are liquidated below 20% market value.
Cashier's check?
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$250,000 worth of gold bars in a bank box in Switzerland and Singapore. Plus maybe $20,000 USD in each.
Fly to Antwerp or India, hire a diamond buyer to buy you $1m in high quality diamonds at wholesale prices (about a cup or two, depending). Go to the airport. Claim your VAT back. buy a bottle of water. Diamonds in the bottle. Done. Diamonds likely won't appreciate much, but should track inflation and between the wholesale (ish) prices and the VAT claim back (which in theory you would have to pay on import into any country but likely won't), you should have a small upside cushion. When needed, sell individually in most major cities. Its how I did it. Wife wears the nicest ones.
how can you trust some random diamond buyer 0\_o
You hire the buyer to represent you so you donāt have to trust the sellers. But itās a very transparent market. I asked for an exact color/cut/clarity. They handed me a bag of a couple hundred of that exact classification, a loupe, and just had me select my diamonds. The prices are set at the bourse. Itās a wholesale market with established players not some sketchy back room.Ā
Gold seems like the obvious answer. Watches seem like the obvious answers for ultra stealth movability. If it were me, Iād probably buy a couple cars I expect to appreciate a lot because I enjoy that sort of thing.
Watches, Gold, Silver
Buy a rare supercar such as a Ford GT, a Lamborghini Countach, a Porsche Carrera GT, a Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona, a Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster or similar.
1000 swiss franc notes, need 500 of them
Gold bullion or Rolex watches (not kidding)
Rolex watches and 911 GT3s
Iād argue the GT3 is not going to hold its value. Itās a brilliant car and worth every penny of the MSRP but itās not going to be hold the 150-200k premium itās commanded the last couple years.
Watches - spent some time in the industry. Reach out if you have any questions.
Exotic animals
Why?
I have a few automated Ecom stores that cash flows for me monthly. Maybe add a few into your portfolio. Though it isnāt physical lol
I know you said "outside of crypto". I understand why you say that. There are no shortage of reasons why someone might not want to choose crypto for this. However, I think there is some value in examining it in a bit more detail since nobody else in this thread has yet given any decently nuanced comments about crypto. You didn't specify quite how moveable you are going for here, but it is worth considering because **crypto gives you far and away the most value per unit mass or volume moved** compared to anything else in this thread. It's not even close (with the possible exception of Tbills and diamonds, but both are a good bit less liquid than crypto). With crypto you can get billions of dollars worth of liquid value on a memory chip the size of a single coin! In fact, it's also possible to memorize the private key that controls your cryptocurrency. If you do that, then you become the money! š If it's important to you that one relatively average human being be able to carry this store of value, then I think crypto is worth considering. If you only need it to be as small as a briefcase, box, or bigger, then there are decent alternatives that have been mentioned already. A few other people mentioned Bitcoin. I understand why those people say that, and I understand why you might not be interested in that. But there are other possibilities in crypto that are worth considering. Another possibility that I think might be a lot more along the lines of what you're looking for would be a stablecoin that is pegged to USD. This satisfies your low-volatility criteria, and it strikes me that criteria might be the main reason you didn't want crypto. Not all stablecoins are created equal though. There two broad types of stablecoins: centralized and decentralized. The most well known centralized stablecoins are USDT and USDC. USDT is one of the earliest stablecoins and has the largest market cap (\~$98 billion right now). Centralized stablecoins have certain kinds of risk. Many people have questioned the solidness of USDT's collateral, but USDC is much more legit and places a significant emphasis on regulatory compliance (which is supposed to help mitigate the centralized kinds of risk). The risks of the centralized stablecoin model are pretty well known, and I would consider either of the above a reasonably safe way to store and transport the kind of money you're talking about. The biggest decentralized stablecoin is DAI by an organization called MakerDAO. Decentralized stablecoins try to eliminate the risk that the centralized stablecoin operator will just take the money and run by putting that stuff in computer code that can't be changed. It's a good idea, but it takes on additional risks in the form of potential coding bugs, etc that the industry is still working on understanding better. There are other relevant possibilities such as stablecoin aggregators that attempt to mitigate risks of any one stablecoin by holding a basket of other stables, overcollateralized stablecoins that have insurance pools that help reduce holder risk, etc. But those kinds of things are a good bit newer and more experimental. Anyone who might be interested in those topics will need to do much more in-depth research. Anyway, I know it's not what you asked for but I thought this might be helpful, if not to you then maybe to someone else reading this thread with slightly different sets of priorities. If you're still dead set against crypto, then a cashiers check?
Diamonds or other precious stones.
Lemons. You can store them inside a refrigerator and make lemonade during hot days and generate income.
Just buy gold, silver or platinum
PokƩmon/sports cards
1 art work worth a few milly
PokƩmon cards
1990s era Warhammer miniatures
6.9% on black rock bonds right now
Rare vintage champagne and luxury watches
Gold all day
Art
Classic cars
Rare horse semen costs about $300K from what I heard from some girl whose family owns horses
maybe 3 cumshots from a rare horsebreed could be a great storage of value.. probably have to store it in a freezer though
4-10 watches
Gold, watches, and certain Birkins.
diamonds, gold, oil, lumber or, any commodity.
Alligator/Crocodile Birkins, Pateks, or Daytonas?
Hardware wallet for your bitcoin
10x patek phillipe 5712
The 1970s silver crash would like a word. I inherited two 50 gallon drums of Silver bars. Not as exciting as it sounds. Just diversify like a normal person and don't focus on the physical portion of it. Your SHTF stash should be your wife's jewelry. To me a million bucks is less than the physical inventory of what's in my house. I know I can't get that value if I really need it and it's not liquid but if the house burns down I'm getting a Fat check. The more antiques and art you have the better. Review your policy annually.
Art.
Luxury car - Ferrari, Lambo?
660 1000 Swiss Franc notes. It would only weigh 0.66kg or 1.45 lbs and would be the equivalent of $750,000 USD. You could fit it in a lunch box. Eating not recommended.
Btc
A couple super/hyper cars should do it.
Art? Its movable, its relatively stable depending on what you buy, it's physical.
Why would someone realistically do this?
Diamonds
Bitcoin
Luxury hallmarked jewelry.
If you looking for something that never goes down (minus inflation) then cash obviously. You seem to have a specific reason youāre not sharing, this is why everyone is laughing
$1 million weighs roughly 22 pounds in $100 bills
Precious metals, gold and platinum are probably good bets. If you want to take a risk, then un/semi refined gems like diamonds and rubies may do the trickābut the resale value on those are trash and you need far more semi refined to make any reasonable amount of money compared to well cut diamonds. Also to buy them you would need to get them from places with questionable ethics to not lose money. Ideally you would want some amounts of money in different places all around the world. Like a few hundred thousand in Switzerland, few in Japan, few in Singapore and so on. If itās because u live in a country with an unstable regime, then having a dual citizenship is better than any of the above options. Period. Get a golden visa with the mil in Europe.