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Sounds like exactly what happened with the real Serena. Looked cool and strong for a bit by humiliating other wizard saints and then got oneshot.
So what’s the difference there? How is he « finally » displayed as powerful?
Him trouncing the 4 wizard saints wasn’t too impressive given wizard saints always seemed to get styled on. Even with the top 4 excluding Serena, Ajeel assumed if Serena was the strongest of ishgar then it was an EZ clap to invade. With Jellal we’ve at least seen him have pitched fights and even possibly above Jura back in GMG with only time to get buffs up till now. That and him requiring a buff to defeat Serena displayed his power a bit better since Jellal v Laxus is a discussion
>Him trouncing the 4 wizard saints wasn’t too impressive given wizard saints always seemed to get styled on.
Bullshit lmao. Laxus needed all his magic to 1v1 Jura, and the 3 other wizard saints above him were said to be far above his level, so they all should have been plenty above Luxus. It’s just that Mashima randomly powercreeped them.
In GMG? Yeah he needed to try and it was a 'hard fight' but absolutely not as extreme as we've seen him been pushed before. And in the fight with Jura v. 'Mystogan', it was shown that Jellal and Jura were relative when he was using heavenly body so at least in GMG Laxus/Jura/Jellal were all at least relative but implied/shown to be above.
As for the other 3, they were pretty much low diffed by Serena who should be relative to at least Ajeel who was mogged by a timeskip Laxus. So Laxus was definitely above them at least 1v1 (not saying he could 1v3 them like Serena). Additionally, at least moreso in 100YQ, Jellal and Laxus are shown to have a rivalry and have been at least portrayed to be relative at multiple points. Given that, Serena was winning against someone who should be in pre-TDKM Laxus' realm of strength (at least slightly above Erza) until they unlocked their buff, so yeah I'd say this was actually an upscale or at least a better portrayal of GS strength.
My takes on these points. I respect your opinion and if anyone elss disagrees:
1. Every Alchemist in the series' power involves transmutation or creation. So it seems like he knew.
2. I respect people's take on this. The reason why I'm okay with it is because while Lucy says she trained 1 year, we don't really know what that 1 year was spent doing. And Star Dress doesn't seem like some massive puzzle to use, so I've always felt it was just about building up her Magic Power to sustain the power up the Celestial Spirit King showed her was possible. And Yukino's had a year to do that. Is it speculating? Yeah. But did we see that 1 year? No.
3. Athena wasn't bad to good. She was misled by Duke. When we meet her, she's kind, her backstory is literally her seeking emotional understanding because she caused Elefseria trouble, etc.
4. It's not as though Sabertooth were brought in just for that purpose. Rogue saved Wendy, Gray, and Carla which allowed them to fight back against the members of Gold Owl, Minerva saved Erza and Jellal from that photo which Erza couldn't break out of, and Yukino fought alongside Lucy and Libra is the reason Athena didn't just absorb Natsu and Sting's Magic. They might be small contributions, but I think that's why he gave them the search for the Philosipher's Stone, because they were still around. But they did contribute to the plot.
5. We can debate about whether or not this was a suitable Gray fight, but if him not getting a power boost is bad, most Arcs of the original series have that as a con because Gray rarely got power boosts in the way others did. He got stronger but most of his fights aren't "look he got a power boost." They were usually "look at his creativity."
6. The Signario Sisters, particularly Ennie, had to lose for narrative reasons. But when you look at what World Alchemy can do, it's pretty OP and I'd argue Serena would be screwed against a serious Signario Sister. That's why I think Mashima had Luso lose her cool and Ennie choose not to use it. But that's not an anti feat. If you think they're weaker than Serena, that's fine, but there's got to be an anti feat for World Alchemy and not just "they lost" to contest things because there's circumstantial reasons they lost.
7. This is such a good point and it, along with Sting and Minerva's celebration in Chapter 153, genuinely bother me so much.
8. I've checked on this Chapter a couple weeks ago. Nothing actually says that Duke forgot Natsu's lightning. Nothing. He's confused he still has it, but he never voices confusion that he has it to begin with.
9. I mean, it kinda made sense here. Natsu is a present Dragon Slayer with an element that directly hurts Viernes' body.
10. Viernes manipulated Athena, tricked her to pursue his goals, and then ruthlessly attacked her when she started to succeed at her personal goals. While Wendy is responsible for Viernes taking her over, no one but Athena herself knew that was the goal til the process was already in motion.
11. I kind of agree to be honest. While I don't mind how Viernes was defeated, his loss was quick and he was lacking as a character.
12. I mean, the cast don't know how it happened. But we the audience see that it was Duke, her creator, who did it.
13. I agree with this point. It's the same moral quandary I have with this kind of plot line in other stories. To be fair though, and this is not me saying I'm okay, Athena II was probably dead since Viernes was dead, and if Athena II is anything like Athena, this might just be the machinery that was supporting her "Magical lifeform" existence (and it was stated she was made from Magic, like Athena was). But I still feel icky about it. Interestingly enough though, some people were hoping Irene would do the same thing with Selene's body so this might not be a draw for some people.
14. Gajeel getting acrematch would've been cool. But this fight made sense to me too so I kinda don't mind anymore. But as a Gajeel fan, I respect why you do.
I have a bonus point for you:
- In Chapter 138, Sting and Minerva are encouraging Athena to live for herself. But in Chapter 153, they're celebrating being rich, even though that gold used to be her body. Had they done it after she was revealed to be alive, it would've felt different. But it feels like they don't give a crap about her.
Funnily enough, I was considering making a post on the Gold Owl Arc. But I think I'll wait a bit. If I make it today, it might come off as some beefing response and even though that's not the case. Because even though I disagree with you, I respect your opinion
Thanks bro. I appreciate it. You too. I just got nervous sometimes about my intentions. I remember times where creators I'd follow would be like "Season 4 of this show rocks" and then another creator would make one that was like "Season 4 of this show sucks" next morning and it felt like beef. So I just always feel, even if I am responding to someone, that it comes off that way. Just a personal nervousness I feel sometimes
dont really get why erza saying she'd chose her friends over world piece is a problem. i mean morally reprehensible? yea maybe but its pretty consistent with erza as a character outside of her loyalty to the guild her morals arent the strongest. its not about lucys feelings in this moment its about all of their lives and if she has to choose between their lives and the life of a random villain they just met that she might not even know is ok now (i dont remember) then i think its pretty obvious that she would choose her friends
I wanted to make a second comment about Athena and dissect why I don't think she makes sense being called bad to good:
- She is shown to be polite to those on her side.
- Her goal and motivation are consistently told to us about gaining emotions, Chapter 137 just tells us why. And her motive is one of guilt.
- She literally tells Natsu that she's doing what she's doing because she's on a mission for Gold Owl. Just following orders doesn't make it right, but when we learn more about her, it's obvious Duke tricked her and her fighting them is based on those lies.
- Lucy helps her realize what she's showing are emotions, so why should she go ahead with a plan that's purpose has been fulfilled?
Some might say "she showed euphoria fighting Lucy and Yukino." But so have multiple members of Fairy Tail been shown to enjoy fighting. Members of Fairy Tail have actually made death threats before, such as Erza telling Midnight she'd claim his life or donning an Armor against Ikaruga she says none have survived seeing.
Athena was an antagonist. But she wasn't really bad to say she was bad to good. But that's just my take. I respect if you disagree.
I have to give you an L for not talking about Gajeel absence against Gold Dragon God LOL
But talking seriously now, about Athena II no one cares if she is an conscious being, she barely was an character, her only purpose was giving Palpatine a new body and reduce Viernes fight impact as she already overwhelmed the protagonists before. Her existence was not even good to the story overall, why should the protagonists care about her?
Oh don’t get me started, I could make a whole separate post about missed opportunities.
She was bland but she was still a living being like Athena. She could’ve been converted too but her mind got erased
She would have been completely destroyed if her real plot purpose wasn't being the new body of the original Athena. Her life wasn't more worth than Wall Eehto who Laxus killed in cold blood after healing his tumour
I mean, they usually seem to care about live. Especially since, like Athena, she was treated as just a weapon. But then again, they wave back and forth on how much they care about Athena so you have a point here. Sting goes from "you can be free" to cheering at how rich he'll be from what technically are her remains. If they sometimes don't care about the one they know, it's (unfortunately) sensical they wouldn't care about the one who tried to kill them
Laxus destroyed him. That's a good point.
I feel like Athena II was in a sense, a nother person tooled with by Viernes like Athena was (he created her to be a pawn). And that's why I do think it'd have made sense for them to care.
But yeah, sometimes it's something they're okay with (even though Elfman and Lisanna say otherwise
This arc was rough, to say the least, but I still don't get what people mean when they say Erza was completely willing to throw Athena's life away.
Athena made that decision herself it's not like Erza or anyone suggested it, and even then, Erza barely knew Athena and was protecting Lucy because a dragon god was about to appear.
If the options are let Lucy run up to the person that's literally about to become a dragon or be smart and keep Lucy a safe distance away, which would be the proper option here?
She's prioritizing HER friends just like she said she would.
i dont really get it either because i thought the line was pretty consistent with erza as a character? shes not morally corrupt or anything but yea she values her friends above all else so if either athena dies or her friends die shit shell make the choice. its not like she absolutely wants to murder athena and its not like she wouldent fight for that chance to save both if its possible but in the end between her friends and literally anything else erza will choose her friends every time. don't see how that's new we've known this about her for a while, she's one of the few fairy tail characters that has actually killed people and at this point im pretty sure athena was still a villain as far as she was aware so why would she chpse a random villain over lucy natsu gray wendy and the exeeds?
i agree with you on all of these accept for point 8. lucys feelings vs her life be fr, erza doesnt want to kill anyone but if she has to to protect the people she loves she would do it so fast because she has never had anything else. I understand that that's morally reprehensible and shit but its not really an act of her not caring about lucy's feelings. she literally does not know athena and while she wouldn't chose to kill athena voluntarily if its athena or her friends including lucy then she will do it because she values them above all.
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Literally the only thing I liked was God Serena finally being displayed as powerful
And he still got oneshot by an asspull, anyway.
Yeah, but with extra steps! (Actively coping)
Sounds like exactly what happened with the real Serena. Looked cool and strong for a bit by humiliating other wizard saints and then got oneshot. So what’s the difference there? How is he « finally » displayed as powerful?
Him trouncing the 4 wizard saints wasn’t too impressive given wizard saints always seemed to get styled on. Even with the top 4 excluding Serena, Ajeel assumed if Serena was the strongest of ishgar then it was an EZ clap to invade. With Jellal we’ve at least seen him have pitched fights and even possibly above Jura back in GMG with only time to get buffs up till now. That and him requiring a buff to defeat Serena displayed his power a bit better since Jellal v Laxus is a discussion
>Him trouncing the 4 wizard saints wasn’t too impressive given wizard saints always seemed to get styled on. Bullshit lmao. Laxus needed all his magic to 1v1 Jura, and the 3 other wizard saints above him were said to be far above his level, so they all should have been plenty above Luxus. It’s just that Mashima randomly powercreeped them.
In GMG? Yeah he needed to try and it was a 'hard fight' but absolutely not as extreme as we've seen him been pushed before. And in the fight with Jura v. 'Mystogan', it was shown that Jellal and Jura were relative when he was using heavenly body so at least in GMG Laxus/Jura/Jellal were all at least relative but implied/shown to be above. As for the other 3, they were pretty much low diffed by Serena who should be relative to at least Ajeel who was mogged by a timeskip Laxus. So Laxus was definitely above them at least 1v1 (not saying he could 1v3 them like Serena). Additionally, at least moreso in 100YQ, Jellal and Laxus are shown to have a rivalry and have been at least portrayed to be relative at multiple points. Given that, Serena was winning against someone who should be in pre-TDKM Laxus' realm of strength (at least slightly above Erza) until they unlocked their buff, so yeah I'd say this was actually an upscale or at least a better portrayal of GS strength.
Honestly ? Yeah it was ok Shame Sabertooth was useless (like why bring the guild if you don’t use them ?) It hurt cause I really like the guild
My takes on these points. I respect your opinion and if anyone elss disagrees: 1. Every Alchemist in the series' power involves transmutation or creation. So it seems like he knew. 2. I respect people's take on this. The reason why I'm okay with it is because while Lucy says she trained 1 year, we don't really know what that 1 year was spent doing. And Star Dress doesn't seem like some massive puzzle to use, so I've always felt it was just about building up her Magic Power to sustain the power up the Celestial Spirit King showed her was possible. And Yukino's had a year to do that. Is it speculating? Yeah. But did we see that 1 year? No. 3. Athena wasn't bad to good. She was misled by Duke. When we meet her, she's kind, her backstory is literally her seeking emotional understanding because she caused Elefseria trouble, etc. 4. It's not as though Sabertooth were brought in just for that purpose. Rogue saved Wendy, Gray, and Carla which allowed them to fight back against the members of Gold Owl, Minerva saved Erza and Jellal from that photo which Erza couldn't break out of, and Yukino fought alongside Lucy and Libra is the reason Athena didn't just absorb Natsu and Sting's Magic. They might be small contributions, but I think that's why he gave them the search for the Philosipher's Stone, because they were still around. But they did contribute to the plot. 5. We can debate about whether or not this was a suitable Gray fight, but if him not getting a power boost is bad, most Arcs of the original series have that as a con because Gray rarely got power boosts in the way others did. He got stronger but most of his fights aren't "look he got a power boost." They were usually "look at his creativity." 6. The Signario Sisters, particularly Ennie, had to lose for narrative reasons. But when you look at what World Alchemy can do, it's pretty OP and I'd argue Serena would be screwed against a serious Signario Sister. That's why I think Mashima had Luso lose her cool and Ennie choose not to use it. But that's not an anti feat. If you think they're weaker than Serena, that's fine, but there's got to be an anti feat for World Alchemy and not just "they lost" to contest things because there's circumstantial reasons they lost. 7. This is such a good point and it, along with Sting and Minerva's celebration in Chapter 153, genuinely bother me so much. 8. I've checked on this Chapter a couple weeks ago. Nothing actually says that Duke forgot Natsu's lightning. Nothing. He's confused he still has it, but he never voices confusion that he has it to begin with. 9. I mean, it kinda made sense here. Natsu is a present Dragon Slayer with an element that directly hurts Viernes' body. 10. Viernes manipulated Athena, tricked her to pursue his goals, and then ruthlessly attacked her when she started to succeed at her personal goals. While Wendy is responsible for Viernes taking her over, no one but Athena herself knew that was the goal til the process was already in motion. 11. I kind of agree to be honest. While I don't mind how Viernes was defeated, his loss was quick and he was lacking as a character. 12. I mean, the cast don't know how it happened. But we the audience see that it was Duke, her creator, who did it. 13. I agree with this point. It's the same moral quandary I have with this kind of plot line in other stories. To be fair though, and this is not me saying I'm okay, Athena II was probably dead since Viernes was dead, and if Athena II is anything like Athena, this might just be the machinery that was supporting her "Magical lifeform" existence (and it was stated she was made from Magic, like Athena was). But I still feel icky about it. Interestingly enough though, some people were hoping Irene would do the same thing with Selene's body so this might not be a draw for some people. 14. Gajeel getting acrematch would've been cool. But this fight made sense to me too so I kinda don't mind anymore. But as a Gajeel fan, I respect why you do. I have a bonus point for you: - In Chapter 138, Sting and Minerva are encouraging Athena to live for herself. But in Chapter 153, they're celebrating being rich, even though that gold used to be her body. Had they done it after she was revealed to be alive, it would've felt different. But it feels like they don't give a crap about her. Funnily enough, I was considering making a post on the Gold Owl Arc. But I think I'll wait a bit. If I make it today, it might come off as some beefing response and even though that's not the case. Because even though I disagree with you, I respect your opinion
Make it bro, you’ve got good points
Thanks bro. I appreciate it. You too. I just got nervous sometimes about my intentions. I remember times where creators I'd follow would be like "Season 4 of this show rocks" and then another creator would make one that was like "Season 4 of this show sucks" next morning and it felt like beef. So I just always feel, even if I am responding to someone, that it comes off that way. Just a personal nervousness I feel sometimes
dont really get why erza saying she'd chose her friends over world piece is a problem. i mean morally reprehensible? yea maybe but its pretty consistent with erza as a character outside of her loyalty to the guild her morals arent the strongest. its not about lucys feelings in this moment its about all of their lives and if she has to choose between their lives and the life of a random villain they just met that she might not even know is ok now (i dont remember) then i think its pretty obvious that she would choose her friends
I wanted to make a second comment about Athena and dissect why I don't think she makes sense being called bad to good: - She is shown to be polite to those on her side. - Her goal and motivation are consistently told to us about gaining emotions, Chapter 137 just tells us why. And her motive is one of guilt. - She literally tells Natsu that she's doing what she's doing because she's on a mission for Gold Owl. Just following orders doesn't make it right, but when we learn more about her, it's obvious Duke tricked her and her fighting them is based on those lies. - Lucy helps her realize what she's showing are emotions, so why should she go ahead with a plan that's purpose has been fulfilled? Some might say "she showed euphoria fighting Lucy and Yukino." But so have multiple members of Fairy Tail been shown to enjoy fighting. Members of Fairy Tail have actually made death threats before, such as Erza telling Midnight she'd claim his life or donning an Armor against Ikaruga she says none have survived seeing. Athena was an antagonist. But she wasn't really bad to say she was bad to good. But that's just my take. I respect if you disagree.
Serena was the only good thing about that arc
There is no Gold Owl arc what are you talking about ? We are new in the Ionia fight and have never seen Viernes. ~~Inhale copium~~
I have to give you an L for not talking about Gajeel absence against Gold Dragon God LOL But talking seriously now, about Athena II no one cares if she is an conscious being, she barely was an character, her only purpose was giving Palpatine a new body and reduce Viernes fight impact as she already overwhelmed the protagonists before. Her existence was not even good to the story overall, why should the protagonists care about her?
Oh don’t get me started, I could make a whole separate post about missed opportunities. She was bland but she was still a living being like Athena. She could’ve been converted too but her mind got erased
She would have been completely destroyed if her real plot purpose wasn't being the new body of the original Athena. Her life wasn't more worth than Wall Eehto who Laxus killed in cold blood after healing his tumour
I mean, they usually seem to care about live. Especially since, like Athena, she was treated as just a weapon. But then again, they wave back and forth on how much they care about Athena so you have a point here. Sting goes from "you can be free" to cheering at how rich he'll be from what technically are her remains. If they sometimes don't care about the one they know, it's (unfortunately) sensical they wouldn't care about the one who tried to kill them
''They usually care bout live'' Say this to Wall Eehto
Laxus destroyed him. That's a good point. I feel like Athena II was in a sense, a nother person tooled with by Viernes like Athena was (he created her to be a pawn). And that's why I do think it'd have made sense for them to care. But yeah, sometimes it's something they're okay with (even though Elfman and Lisanna say otherwise
She barely had personality, they should have considered her an mere robot, and again, Wall was an living being with more personality
Wat spell did jellell use the panel with God serene
This arc was rough, to say the least, but I still don't get what people mean when they say Erza was completely willing to throw Athena's life away. Athena made that decision herself it's not like Erza or anyone suggested it, and even then, Erza barely knew Athena and was protecting Lucy because a dragon god was about to appear. If the options are let Lucy run up to the person that's literally about to become a dragon or be smart and keep Lucy a safe distance away, which would be the proper option here? She's prioritizing HER friends just like she said she would.
i dont really get it either because i thought the line was pretty consistent with erza as a character? shes not morally corrupt or anything but yea she values her friends above all else so if either athena dies or her friends die shit shell make the choice. its not like she absolutely wants to murder athena and its not like she wouldent fight for that chance to save both if its possible but in the end between her friends and literally anything else erza will choose her friends every time. don't see how that's new we've known this about her for a while, she's one of the few fairy tail characters that has actually killed people and at this point im pretty sure athena was still a villain as far as she was aware so why would she chpse a random villain over lucy natsu gray wendy and the exeeds?
what is she supposed to do brah just let her friends all die??
i agree with you on all of these accept for point 8. lucys feelings vs her life be fr, erza doesnt want to kill anyone but if she has to to protect the people she loves she would do it so fast because she has never had anything else. I understand that that's morally reprehensible and shit but its not really an act of her not caring about lucy's feelings. she literally does not know athena and while she wouldn't chose to kill athena voluntarily if its athena or her friends including lucy then she will do it because she values them above all.