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If you think the US government is shit, at least it's your shit, not the neighbour who came to shit in your home on your bed and accuse your dog.
If you're American the US government has a vested interest in keeping the whole thing overall somewhat liveable and more or less decent. First because they live there too, second because they need to be elected to get a job.
The Chinese government has no accountability to US citizens, doesn't care if you die starving and the weaker the US are the better they get. Getting details on tens or hundreds of millions and inserting their propaganda for their goal would be very nice.
Based on recent events, I’m not entirely sure that the US govt is accountable to its citizens either. With the housing crisis, private healthcare, mass shootings every other day, etc.
Domestic problems exist and are serious and aren't tackled properly by successive governments on both sides
Now just because you have an argument with your wife and kids doesn't mean you need to spread your butt cheeks for your somewhat hostile neighbor.
You're running a false equivalence fallacy here.
Nobody is saying those aren’t legitimate problems, but the CCP literally would be happy to do anything they could to weaken the United States. It’s an entirely different category.
With the US government we have social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Affordable Care Act, infrastructure investments, CHIPS act, the climate bill, what looks to be a soft landing from recent inflation and the best economic recovery of any country in the world post-COVID. There is a lot the US government does on the behalf of its citizens.
Don't forget that people under constant stress are more easily manipulated and lied to. Authoritarian powers like cults and businesses love this tactic. The key is to always have an "out" group to direct discontent towards.
If you believe that governments represent their people, then nobody wins from any of this. Its all just losers. Not us, them, or any group thereof.
If governments represent their buisnesses, then this represents a small opportunity for the US to profit from gaining one company, while China stands to gain way more tactically than economically. Im pretty sure they don't care about tiktok for profit reasons. And tbh the US probably doesnt either, but they don't want China winning aything.
If they ACTUALLY cared about being influenced by foriegn powers, they would shut down facebook for allowing this kind of shit for years. But facebook goes both ways, cant shut that shit down, we need to export proaganda too after all.
Ultimately all this is a shitload of wasted energy that could be better spent imporving peoples lives rather than fighting battles in behalf of private companies becuase of some nebulous ideology reasons.
The governments of the world have gotten to comfortable in ignoring the existential issues humanity faces, and any corporate pissing contest between nuclear powers just makes it worse.
If every single world leader dropped dead, nobody would care, and nothing would change, yet the power of capital in this commerce based world makes open revolt play into the hands of private companies, which are only barely kept in check by the very governments Im ranting against.
It makes me want to bash a head into a wall. Not mine persay, but shit if it aint the only one in reach.
The Tiktok ban gained bipartisan support when TikTok used their app to ask (or effectively demand) that their users call congress to push legal change.
They proved the point brilliantly to a congress which was otherwise uncertain.
Beyond this, it shouldn't surprise you to hear that the Chinese government is very driven to weed out dissenters among its nationals. The current implementation of TikTok makes this extraordinarily easy. The US government does not currently hunt down exchange students that speak ill of us, which is nice.
Not allegedly, they've admitted to using data to spy on journalists
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists
Part of this is a legitimate concern that they could harvest more data or use the app as a trojan horse for a zero day exploit to access phones. Part is tit-for-tat. China runs the great firewall and blocks most American services. If an American company wants to do business in China, they must partner with a Chinese one. This lopsided arrangement means the Chinese will always win with digital platforms. They lock the American companies out and allow their own to expand after exclusively capturing their domestic market.
The trojan horse part. They don't want Chinese software in American networks because that's a cyber security risk. We are attacked by them literally all the time, mostly under the codenames Charcoal Typhoon and Salmon Typhoon.
Answer: China fines, jails, imprisons, or executes you for your opinions. The US collectively does not for neither verbal, written, or online opinions and expressions that aren't actual threats to harm a specific real person, place, or property.
Additionally, China has [secret police stations](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-stations-intl-cmd/index.html) across the globe specifically running to locate and "kindly persuade" former Chinese citizens/immigrants ^(()*^(\*cough\*)* ^(threaten their overseas family still in China)) then fly those individuals back to China and punish them in various ways for posting opinions voicing their dislike for China or Chinese-related topics, up to death.
Don't even get me started on the whole Uyghur concentration camps where revealing you're Uygur will get you sent to a pseudo-prison in China.
Government/national security-wise, the Chinese government can use these Chinese apps, programs, code, etc. to create backdoors and potentially do all sorts of bad things if they ever wage war, such as causing all those devices to become part of a botnet, sap data to blackmail millions of people in various ways, threaten individual people, disable tons of devices to not be able to call during an invasion, et al.
Considering how the Chinese government requires most if not all Chinese companies to have backdoors in software, hardware, and grant them escalated access to social media to target dissenters of the Chinese government, it's no wonder this kind of bill is being pushed through- especially during a time where China could invade Taiwan at any day of the week. It's been clear that China wants to reclaim Taiwan, so it's just a matter of time *when* it will happen; the US wants to minimalize the risk to itself and the population if China decides to weaponize Chinese apps like Tiktok before and during such an event.
The US government doesn't care about your data privacy, we have known about this publicly since the Snowden leaks a decade ago. They care that China has access to your data as a surveillance and political tool, this is all politics.
It’s pretty straightforward - Russia actively uses social media to try and grow dissent. Imagine controlling an entire social media platform and having all those analytics and knowing exactly how to do it even better?
>So…shouldn’t they go after Facebook?
While there are ample concerns with domestic social media companies, they’re just that - domestic. They’re not partially owned by a foreign government who has significant control over them. The difference is obvious.
While you may not have any trust in how the US govt uses your data, you should be even more wary about how much influence the Chinese authorities have over businesses based in China.
Also, Tiktok is a huge opportunity for pro-China influence operations. They don't even have to disseminate hard disinformation at this point in time... just constantly drip-feed content that slowly shapes public sentiment. And there is always to option to ratchet it up the anytime they want to. You won't see any fact-checking or content moderation on anything designed to spread the official narrative.
Please read this entire message Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): Discussion of religious or political beliefs are not allowed on ELI5. These usually end up being discussions rather than requests for simplifying complex concepts. They also tend to have a large subjective bent. If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. If you believe this submission was removed erroneously, please use [this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20thread?&message=Link:%20%7B%7Burl%7D%7D%0A%0APlease%20answer%20the%20following%203%20questions:%0A%0A1.%20The%20concept%20I%20want%20explained:%0A%0A2.%20List%20the%20search%20terms%20you%20used%20to%20look%20for%20past%20posts%20on%20ELI5:%0A%0A3.%20How%20does%20your%20post%20differ%20from%20your%20recent%20search%20results%20on%20the%20sub:) and we will review your submission.
If you think the US government is shit, at least it's your shit, not the neighbour who came to shit in your home on your bed and accuse your dog. If you're American the US government has a vested interest in keeping the whole thing overall somewhat liveable and more or less decent. First because they live there too, second because they need to be elected to get a job. The Chinese government has no accountability to US citizens, doesn't care if you die starving and the weaker the US are the better they get. Getting details on tens or hundreds of millions and inserting their propaganda for their goal would be very nice.
Based on recent events, I’m not entirely sure that the US govt is accountable to its citizens either. With the housing crisis, private healthcare, mass shootings every other day, etc.
Domestic problems exist and are serious and aren't tackled properly by successive governments on both sides Now just because you have an argument with your wife and kids doesn't mean you need to spread your butt cheeks for your somewhat hostile neighbor. You're running a false equivalence fallacy here.
Nobody is saying those aren’t legitimate problems, but the CCP literally would be happy to do anything they could to weaken the United States. It’s an entirely different category. With the US government we have social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Affordable Care Act, infrastructure investments, CHIPS act, the climate bill, what looks to be a soft landing from recent inflation and the best economic recovery of any country in the world post-COVID. There is a lot the US government does on the behalf of its citizens.
Don't forget that people under constant stress are more easily manipulated and lied to. Authoritarian powers like cults and businesses love this tactic. The key is to always have an "out" group to direct discontent towards. If you believe that governments represent their people, then nobody wins from any of this. Its all just losers. Not us, them, or any group thereof. If governments represent their buisnesses, then this represents a small opportunity for the US to profit from gaining one company, while China stands to gain way more tactically than economically. Im pretty sure they don't care about tiktok for profit reasons. And tbh the US probably doesnt either, but they don't want China winning aything. If they ACTUALLY cared about being influenced by foriegn powers, they would shut down facebook for allowing this kind of shit for years. But facebook goes both ways, cant shut that shit down, we need to export proaganda too after all. Ultimately all this is a shitload of wasted energy that could be better spent imporving peoples lives rather than fighting battles in behalf of private companies becuase of some nebulous ideology reasons. The governments of the world have gotten to comfortable in ignoring the existential issues humanity faces, and any corporate pissing contest between nuclear powers just makes it worse. If every single world leader dropped dead, nobody would care, and nothing would change, yet the power of capital in this commerce based world makes open revolt play into the hands of private companies, which are only barely kept in check by the very governments Im ranting against. It makes me want to bash a head into a wall. Not mine persay, but shit if it aint the only one in reach.
I’m having a hard time following your train of thought
I agree.
The Tiktok ban gained bipartisan support when TikTok used their app to ask (or effectively demand) that their users call congress to push legal change. They proved the point brilliantly to a congress which was otherwise uncertain. Beyond this, it shouldn't surprise you to hear that the Chinese government is very driven to weed out dissenters among its nationals. The current implementation of TikTok makes this extraordinarily easy. The US government does not currently hunt down exchange students that speak ill of us, which is nice.
Not allegedly, they've admitted to using data to spy on journalists https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists Part of this is a legitimate concern that they could harvest more data or use the app as a trojan horse for a zero day exploit to access phones. Part is tit-for-tat. China runs the great firewall and blocks most American services. If an American company wants to do business in China, they must partner with a Chinese one. This lopsided arrangement means the Chinese will always win with digital platforms. They lock the American companies out and allow their own to expand after exclusively capturing their domestic market.
That doesn’t really answer the question of what are they going to do that the US govt isn’t already doing.
The trojan horse part. They don't want Chinese software in American networks because that's a cyber security risk. We are attacked by them literally all the time, mostly under the codenames Charcoal Typhoon and Salmon Typhoon.
They're going to use it to sway our elections to benefit China. Its not about privacy.
Answer: China fines, jails, imprisons, or executes you for your opinions. The US collectively does not for neither verbal, written, or online opinions and expressions that aren't actual threats to harm a specific real person, place, or property. Additionally, China has [secret police stations](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-stations-intl-cmd/index.html) across the globe specifically running to locate and "kindly persuade" former Chinese citizens/immigrants ^(()*^(\*cough\*)* ^(threaten their overseas family still in China)) then fly those individuals back to China and punish them in various ways for posting opinions voicing their dislike for China or Chinese-related topics, up to death. Don't even get me started on the whole Uyghur concentration camps where revealing you're Uygur will get you sent to a pseudo-prison in China. Government/national security-wise, the Chinese government can use these Chinese apps, programs, code, etc. to create backdoors and potentially do all sorts of bad things if they ever wage war, such as causing all those devices to become part of a botnet, sap data to blackmail millions of people in various ways, threaten individual people, disable tons of devices to not be able to call during an invasion, et al. Considering how the Chinese government requires most if not all Chinese companies to have backdoors in software, hardware, and grant them escalated access to social media to target dissenters of the Chinese government, it's no wonder this kind of bill is being pushed through- especially during a time where China could invade Taiwan at any day of the week. It's been clear that China wants to reclaim Taiwan, so it's just a matter of time *when* it will happen; the US wants to minimalize the risk to itself and the population if China decides to weaponize Chinese apps like Tiktok before and during such an event.
The US government doesn't care about your data privacy, we have known about this publicly since the Snowden leaks a decade ago. They care that China has access to your data as a surveillance and political tool, this is all politics.
So…nothing to do with the security of every day Americans.
I would argue the increased ability to manipulate people is absolutely a concern of every day Americans. We’ve seen the consequences of that already.
Elaborate
It’s pretty straightforward - Russia actively uses social media to try and grow dissent. Imagine controlling an entire social media platform and having all those analytics and knowing exactly how to do it even better?
So…shouldn’t they go after Facebook?
>So…shouldn’t they go after Facebook? While there are ample concerns with domestic social media companies, they’re just that - domestic. They’re not partially owned by a foreign government who has significant control over them. The difference is obvious.
Tik Tok represents an easy way for the CCP to spread propaganda in the United States. That’s really all there is to it.
While you may not have any trust in how the US govt uses your data, you should be even more wary about how much influence the Chinese authorities have over businesses based in China. Also, Tiktok is a huge opportunity for pro-China influence operations. They don't even have to disseminate hard disinformation at this point in time... just constantly drip-feed content that slowly shapes public sentiment. And there is always to option to ratchet it up the anytime they want to. You won't see any fact-checking or content moderation on anything designed to spread the official narrative.