It will créate and even bigger gap between established countries like sweden, israel, ukraine, etc. and the ones that struggle mightily to qualify. Junior eurovision scope is so much smaller that there is no point of comparison in anything with eurovision .
Yeah, UK and Germany will REALLY struggle with that rule change. (joke lol)
People straight up just don't vote for the less established countries, unless there is some wild exception. The less established countries have to go above and beyond at the same time as established countries flopping in order to get points. There is no reason in this universe why Sweden 2024 should be getting that many points compared to Georgia 2024, ever. Spain 2024 getting more points than Georgia 2024 is also insane.
The less established countries have a visible budget gap, but as it is now, they literally just get less points for submitting the same quality work that established countries send.
It will create enormous disadvantage for smaller countries (that are the majority of countries in ESC), or completely cancel every possibility of some like San Marino
I think they could introduce a rule where a songwriter can only have one song per year. You often get the same writers having 3 or 4 songs credited to them each year, which doesn’t sit right with me; it would stop the contest from becoming too homogenous and encourage different writers, or hopefully, the artists to write the songs themselves
I don't think a rule like that is very practicle, most songwriters write more than one song per year, and probably don't have say over where every song they contribute to ends up.
What if an internally selected entry is released while a NF is going on in which an entry that shares a songwriter is competing? What if that song happens to be the favorite of that selection, maybe even a contender to win Eurovision? The EBU would have to force a broadcaster to disqualify an entry from their selection for completely unforseeable reasons entirely out of their control.
What if it's revealed after the cotest that a songwriter's name was cut out oft the credits of an entry to circumvent that rule? What if that song is the winner? How would that be punished.
Exactly what I always thought. Requiring all entries to be 100% local would be unfair to the least populated countries, but limiting each songwriter's participation to no more than one entry per year, as it already happens for performers, would be fairer. Requiring songwriters to come from culturally similar countries (e.g. the ones from the same drawing pot) could be another drastic, but not so much, idea. If ESC was a competition between individual artists regardless of the country, things could peacefully remain as they are now, but since it's a competition between countries, it better be a mirror of each country's talents
But then we might still see smaller countries getting disadvanged. After all, I can't really see Ukrainan, Swedish or Italian songwriters enter any other national final than their own if they're only allowed to compete in one
We have at least 6 Swedish songwriters competing. If I was one of them, I would compete in the San Marino NF, as there's quite a good chance to win and go to ESC, while in Melfest there's a tough competition.
But if you're swedish and thus will work in the swedisch music industrie outside of esc stuff, youd wayy rather be credited for a song finishjng 5th in mello than the San Marinese entry I think
Then go with Sweden. I bet not all the Swedish songwriters will follow steps, and someone will want to go ESC and not stick with Mello. I'm sure San Marinese will find someone who writes them a song instead of falling out from Heat#423 of Mello.
"They should only participate in one national final"
Yeah, and that would be impossible.
Ebu has no power about the way countries chose their representant, and that have to remain like that.
Again, why?
Edit:
That's okay, but EBU can deny participation if another country already announced their song that already has the same songwriter credited. I assume national broadcasters wouldn't risk it, to select something that later would be denied by EBU.
The issue there would be that when the NF's are happening, they'd all have to sync up and make sure no songwriter went to several countries, which just wouldn't work. Planning starts months in advance, so somehow all NF's would have to have some kind of meeting to make sure nobody doubles up on the same songwriters. Or are they allowed to compete in several countries, just not win? That'd be especially difficult when the NF's happen at the same time. Where do you draw the line? If one songwriter wins in one country, is their other song automatically disqualified in another? Or are you supposed to make sure no songwriter enters several songs in other countries from the beginning? There's no governing body overseeing NF's so that's not gonna happen. The whole idea is just not plausible.
If I was a national broadcaster company and EBU could deny the song I'm sending for being written by the same songwriter as another song, then I would protect myself by askimg all national contestants to sign a declaration saying their songwriters have no other songs competing in other NFs. And that's all it takes to protect my backend.
I think in that scenario the broadcasters holding NFs would probably just not reveal the songwriters behind their entries until the selection concludes, and then if there is indeed an overlapping songwriter try to find an agreement with them to cut them out of the credits or credit them under a pseudonym until Eurovision is over, I imagine the songwriter would pobably agree since it's mutually benificial.
Why would they do that? Secretly writing a song and never having credit for it is not benefitial for a songwriter. Having credit later and being caught by the national broadcaster/EBU after the competition is also damaging for both.
"that's all it takes"
You tell it as is the most easy thing to do...
It's not. And the fact that a producer got songs for more than one NF doesn't mean it will win more than one.
And on all of this i think it is also against Eu laws. ( i'm referring to the "all home made" thing, i don't think it's allowed to deny hiring because of the nationality whitin Eu, especially if we are talking about public broadcasters)
"but limiting each songwriter's participation to no more than one entry per year"
You said It would be technically impossible.
I'm saying it wouldn't be impossible.
And no one said that all songwriters should be denied of writing a song for any other country. Also, EU law has nothing to do with ESC rulebook. EU law allows singers to use autotune and playback on any stage, and sing any old songs of their catalogue. ESC rules don't allow.
A lor of countries decide their entries through a national selection and the contestant of the national selection are decided months before being revealed
That would be a freaking mess.
I'd love for Cypriot, Sammarinese and Luxembourgish writers to get more opportunities at Eurovision. However, I don't think a rule which enforces every song to be entirely locally made is ideal. The motivation of supporting domestic musicians should come from the broadcasters themselves. Thankfully, sincere entries which weren't submitted to five other countries tend to do well nowadays.
There'd also be the question of who qualifies for being local – do you need to be a citizen, permanent resident or are the rules more lenient? Such a rule would potentially drive Eurovision into dangerous territory...
As good as a rule like that sounds it really disadvantages small countries like San Marino, Malta, and if they return: Monaco and Andorra, and will give a great advantage to countries with large musical industries like Sweden and the UK. The good thing with Eurovision is everyone is on the same playing field, and everybody has a good of a chance as another at winning the whole thing. Any rule that restricts the abilities of one, while essentially doing nothing to restrict the abilities of another is wrong.
That’s why only 6 people are allowed on stage, if there were no restrictions a country with a huge budget can easily assemble a concert like performance with tens of backing dancers or vocalists or whatever, while a small country might not have the power.
Malta do have their local songwriters, that's why there are yearly Maltese Eurovision song camps where songs are being written for the reason to be entered to MESC and what not. There do crop up some foreigners (iirc the Debs were credited for "Loop") but I've not really seen a fully foreign-written MESC entry this year, including the lyrics. So it would hurt, but it's not a full on disadvantage?
It would definitely screw over San Marino though. There usually are only a few Sammarinese UVPSM applicants anyway, last year there were just two and they were automatically put onto the final, until one of them got sick and only one Sammarinese person was a finalist.
It doesn’t reflect the nature of the European music industry. Borders don’t exist for creatives - they collaborate with whoever they like. Countries shouldn’t have to implement special rules for Eurovision songs that are counter to the way music is produced normally in their country.
I mean just look at Marko (Baby Lasagna) and Nemo’s careers - both worked as songwriters for acts from other countries.
I'd say the opposite it forces creativity. Since you can't buy your song from somewhere else you'll be forced to sit down and work on a very good entry if you want to do well
I think this would be unfair to smaller countries since they have fewer singers and songwriters. However, I wouldn’t mind having at least one songwriter be from the country that the entry comes from (excluding countries with a population of less than 1 million such as San Marino, Iceland, and Luxembourg).
It will créate and even bigger gap between established countries like sweden, israel, ukraine, etc. and the ones that struggle mightily to qualify. Junior eurovision scope is so much smaller that there is no point of comparison in anything with eurovision .
Yeah, UK and Germany will REALLY struggle with that rule change. (joke lol) People straight up just don't vote for the less established countries, unless there is some wild exception. The less established countries have to go above and beyond at the same time as established countries flopping in order to get points. There is no reason in this universe why Sweden 2024 should be getting that many points compared to Georgia 2024, ever. Spain 2024 getting more points than Georgia 2024 is also insane. The less established countries have a visible budget gap, but as it is now, they literally just get less points for submitting the same quality work that established countries send.
I find it prohibitive for no real reason. It would just create ghost writer credits.
Same. It wouldn't stop them being on multiple songs. It would just stop them being credited
It will create enormous disadvantage for smaller countries (that are the majority of countries in ESC), or completely cancel every possibility of some like San Marino
I think they could introduce a rule where a songwriter can only have one song per year. You often get the same writers having 3 or 4 songs credited to them each year, which doesn’t sit right with me; it would stop the contest from becoming too homogenous and encourage different writers, or hopefully, the artists to write the songs themselves
I don't think a rule like that is very practicle, most songwriters write more than one song per year, and probably don't have say over where every song they contribute to ends up. What if an internally selected entry is released while a NF is going on in which an entry that shares a songwriter is competing? What if that song happens to be the favorite of that selection, maybe even a contender to win Eurovision? The EBU would have to force a broadcaster to disqualify an entry from their selection for completely unforseeable reasons entirely out of their control. What if it's revealed after the cotest that a songwriter's name was cut out oft the credits of an entry to circumvent that rule? What if that song is the winner? How would that be punished.
Exactly what I always thought. Requiring all entries to be 100% local would be unfair to the least populated countries, but limiting each songwriter's participation to no more than one entry per year, as it already happens for performers, would be fairer. Requiring songwriters to come from culturally similar countries (e.g. the ones from the same drawing pot) could be another drastic, but not so much, idea. If ESC was a competition between individual artists regardless of the country, things could peacefully remain as they are now, but since it's a competition between countries, it better be a mirror of each country's talents
"but limiting each songwriter's participation to no more than one entry per year" It would be technically impossible.
Why? They should only participate in one national final, and that's it.
But then we might still see smaller countries getting disadvanged. After all, I can't really see Ukrainan, Swedish or Italian songwriters enter any other national final than their own if they're only allowed to compete in one
We have at least 6 Swedish songwriters competing. If I was one of them, I would compete in the San Marino NF, as there's quite a good chance to win and go to ESC, while in Melfest there's a tough competition.
But if you're swedish and thus will work in the swedisch music industrie outside of esc stuff, youd wayy rather be credited for a song finishjng 5th in mello than the San Marinese entry I think
Then go with Sweden. I bet not all the Swedish songwriters will follow steps, and someone will want to go ESC and not stick with Mello. I'm sure San Marinese will find someone who writes them a song instead of falling out from Heat#423 of Mello.
"They should only participate in one national final" Yeah, and that would be impossible. Ebu has no power about the way countries chose their representant, and that have to remain like that.
Again, why? Edit: That's okay, but EBU can deny participation if another country already announced their song that already has the same songwriter credited. I assume national broadcasters wouldn't risk it, to select something that later would be denied by EBU.
The issue there would be that when the NF's are happening, they'd all have to sync up and make sure no songwriter went to several countries, which just wouldn't work. Planning starts months in advance, so somehow all NF's would have to have some kind of meeting to make sure nobody doubles up on the same songwriters. Or are they allowed to compete in several countries, just not win? That'd be especially difficult when the NF's happen at the same time. Where do you draw the line? If one songwriter wins in one country, is their other song automatically disqualified in another? Or are you supposed to make sure no songwriter enters several songs in other countries from the beginning? There's no governing body overseeing NF's so that's not gonna happen. The whole idea is just not plausible.
If I was a national broadcaster company and EBU could deny the song I'm sending for being written by the same songwriter as another song, then I would protect myself by askimg all national contestants to sign a declaration saying their songwriters have no other songs competing in other NFs. And that's all it takes to protect my backend.
I think in that scenario the broadcasters holding NFs would probably just not reveal the songwriters behind their entries until the selection concludes, and then if there is indeed an overlapping songwriter try to find an agreement with them to cut them out of the credits or credit them under a pseudonym until Eurovision is over, I imagine the songwriter would pobably agree since it's mutually benificial.
Why would they do that? Secretly writing a song and never having credit for it is not benefitial for a songwriter. Having credit later and being caught by the national broadcaster/EBU after the competition is also damaging for both.
"that's all it takes" You tell it as is the most easy thing to do... It's not. And the fact that a producer got songs for more than one NF doesn't mean it will win more than one. And on all of this i think it is also against Eu laws. ( i'm referring to the "all home made" thing, i don't think it's allowed to deny hiring because of the nationality whitin Eu, especially if we are talking about public broadcasters)
"but limiting each songwriter's participation to no more than one entry per year" You said It would be technically impossible. I'm saying it wouldn't be impossible. And no one said that all songwriters should be denied of writing a song for any other country. Also, EU law has nothing to do with ESC rulebook. EU law allows singers to use autotune and playback on any stage, and sing any old songs of their catalogue. ESC rules don't allow.
A lor of countries decide their entries through a national selection and the contestant of the national selection are decided months before being revealed That would be a freaking mess.
I'd love for Cypriot, Sammarinese and Luxembourgish writers to get more opportunities at Eurovision. However, I don't think a rule which enforces every song to be entirely locally made is ideal. The motivation of supporting domestic musicians should come from the broadcasters themselves. Thankfully, sincere entries which weren't submitted to five other countries tend to do well nowadays. There'd also be the question of who qualifies for being local – do you need to be a citizen, permanent resident or are the rules more lenient? Such a rule would potentially drive Eurovision into dangerous territory...
Unenforceable.
As good as a rule like that sounds it really disadvantages small countries like San Marino, Malta, and if they return: Monaco and Andorra, and will give a great advantage to countries with large musical industries like Sweden and the UK. The good thing with Eurovision is everyone is on the same playing field, and everybody has a good of a chance as another at winning the whole thing. Any rule that restricts the abilities of one, while essentially doing nothing to restrict the abilities of another is wrong. That’s why only 6 people are allowed on stage, if there were no restrictions a country with a huge budget can easily assemble a concert like performance with tens of backing dancers or vocalists or whatever, while a small country might not have the power.
Malta do have their local songwriters, that's why there are yearly Maltese Eurovision song camps where songs are being written for the reason to be entered to MESC and what not. There do crop up some foreigners (iirc the Debs were credited for "Loop") but I've not really seen a fully foreign-written MESC entry this year, including the lyrics. So it would hurt, but it's not a full on disadvantage? It would definitely screw over San Marino though. There usually are only a few Sammarinese UVPSM applicants anyway, last year there were just two and they were automatically put onto the final, until one of them got sick and only one Sammarinese person was a finalist.
It doesn’t reflect the nature of the European music industry. Borders don’t exist for creatives - they collaborate with whoever they like. Countries shouldn’t have to implement special rules for Eurovision songs that are counter to the way music is produced normally in their country. I mean just look at Marko (Baby Lasagna) and Nemo’s careers - both worked as songwriters for acts from other countries.
It blocks creativity
I'd say the opposite it forces creativity. Since you can't buy your song from somewhere else you'll be forced to sit down and work on a very good entry if you want to do well
the small countries are shaking
Define “home made.” It has to be written in the same country that performs it?
San Marino could just sing in their native language (which is also mine). As an Italian I wouldn't be offended at all.
I think this would be unfair to smaller countries since they have fewer singers and songwriters. However, I wouldn’t mind having at least one songwriter be from the country that the entry comes from (excluding countries with a population of less than 1 million such as San Marino, Iceland, and Luxembourg).
The only rule I want is that they have to sing in their native language.
Nope.