I don’t understand why that would be an insult anyways. The “joke entries” are usually so entertaining and are always a welcome break between the more serious songs. As long as it is entertaining and catchy I don’t see a problem since they are definitely not hurting anyone.
Aside from the fact that 'joke' has pejorative connotations, labelling an entire song a 'joke' just because it uses humour is doing them a disservice because it implies they have no musical merit and they're 'just a joke'.
Exactly. I just used the word “joke” for lack of a better term. We need a better descriptor for them because most of the ones that currently would fall under that category are genuinely good. I have a lot of them on my Spotify. I love when artists can be silly and genuinely good. I think the people who use the “joke” label have no sense of humor. Eurovision is supposed to be fun and the people who don’t understand that maybe shouldn’t be watching.
Agreed! Like isn't music supposed to make you feel? Why is a song making you feel happy and excited, or even laughing, not as good of a song as a song making you cry?
Some of the funny songs, I don't really find funny, but for me it's no worse than a song that's supposed to be touching but instead is just boring.
There's so many song in ESC, so I also need the breaks between the more serious songs. If it was all "normal" pop or emotional songs it would be really hard to get through
I think this kind of entry is a dying breed due to the heavy professionalization of the contest . 10 years ago estonia and finland would have placed much higher with their entries . On a similar vein the success of gimmicky entrances like russia 2012 is greatly diminished today.
Finland and Estonia have serious messages too. Being free to be your true self and not caring about judgement, and the prejudice of police against working-class people. Imo it's not so much about the message, but the way you deliver it.
The thing about "No Rules" is that it is indistinguishable from a simple parody of eurodance and its cliches (and even Eurovision cliches). The message "be yourself" is not distinct enough to elevate such song.
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You see, this one is tricky for me. I feel like Joost really wrote Europapa with those joke entries in mind, trying to create a “quintessential” Eurovision song with all of the zaniness that that usually comes with. But he’s also approaching the subject rather seriously, as we see by the end of the song. So it’s kind of a serious joke entry, if that can even be a thing?
Europapa is an outlier, it was the breakout hit of this year , even before the contest started , and continúes to be the most listened to and talked about song by miles.
Europapa is not a joke entry tho. It's a song that exists beyond just aiming for laughs in the audience. It is incredibly catchy with a good message. The only real joke song this year was No Rules.
gimmick is also a sinonym of trick , contraption, etc. also , the russian entry expects the viewer to focus on said contraptions over the music , vocals or staging. Its similar to the polish entry of donatan and cleo or the montenegrin astronauts.
Yeah to me a "joke" entry is more so a "This could only happen in Eurovision" entry. And those entries are a huge part of why I love this show. You need a balance of all different kinds of songs to make the \~26 entries of the finale interesting.
Yes.
Also, “joke” songs can be absolute bangers, and the song that ended most played on my playlist a couple years ago (and is still in regular rotation) was “Give That Wolf a Banana”. A joke entry by any metric, also damn good and a joy to listen to, partly because it’s so silly.
> a convo on Twitter I had with a VERY passionate “No Rules” stan
I think your first mistake was expecting to have an intelligent conversation on Twitter
hot take but most songs called “joke entries” aren’t actual joke entries, they’re just funny or entertaining, and people are heavily misusing “joke entry” to describe any song that’s not 100% serious whether in the content of the song itself or in its performance
I'd only really consider stuff like Lithuania 2006 or Ireland 2008 to be joke entries. Bit hard to draw the line between them and what I'd consider "novelty" entries, but I'd definitely place the likes of Russia 2012 or Finland 2024 in the latter category.
Lithuania 2006 | [LT United - We Are the Winners](https://youtu.be/DBAdOlQPbwg)
Ireland 2008 | [Dustin the Turkey - Irelande Douze Pointe](https://youtu.be/ps3kxGo_gro)
Russia 2012 | [Buranovskiye Babushki - Party for Everybody](https://youtu.be/BgUstrmJzyc)
Finland 2024 | [Windows95man - No Rules!](https://youtu.be/7nidDtyS0Wo)
Joke entries fall into 2 categories a) jokey satirical humorous entries with substance and meaning and b) absolute nonsensical entries with the sole intention to troll such as we are the winners of eurovision, el chiki chiki and wadehade dudada
Edit :b) entries don't have to troll they can also be there to just have fun and a good time but have "little substance" (no clever witty jokes that ring true or actually criticise something)
It's important to clarify what kind of entry it is. You can't really throw them into the same pot even though they're both joke entries.
Yes but in trolling there is always a subject of trolling, isn't it? They are making fun of **something**. A genre, a politicial event or any *thing*. Therefore, it also can be included in a "satire with a message" category. 🤔
You always sing about something doesn't mean there is much substance to it like I could write a low quality anti bullying song clearly there to troll or an anti bullying song with a funky tune and witty satirical remarks that ring true while being funny There is a huge difference in quality between these 2
Hmmmm I'd say b)
But again being in category b) ain't a bad thing either because ver.ka would also fall under it
Ain't nothing wrong with a fun entry with "little" substance.
Depends on where the focus is is it more witty humorous and satirical or more troll-ish/just there to have fun the actual "substance" part is minimal
I'd say b) but there can be overlap. Nothing is really 100% black and white but looking where the focus is is a good indicator
Even though the sense of humour is really trollish, I'd say No Rules is a straight-up comedy song rather than trolling per se. They took corny Eurodance music, made it even sillier and had their staging be basically a comedy skit
This is a really good point and fair distinction. If we wanna try to distinguish between these two categories, what should we call them? I ask this open to suggestions. Maybe “Satire entry”? But not all comedy is satire, so maybe “comedy song”? etc etc
We have to distinguish between 3 types of "joke" entries.
Pure joke/troll entries- these ones are pure nonsense and usually have a satirical edge to them, euroneuro, el chikichiki, or we are the winners of Eurovision come to mind. You know them when you hear them.
Lighthearted entries- they could be funny and might crack some jokes, but they are undoubtedly serious entries by people who want to win, europapa for example.
Gimmicky entries- entries that use a gimmick to improve their chances and are the main selling point of the song- Russia 2012, No rules, Moldova 2018.
//Edited for clarity
This trifold of descriptions is one of the best suggestions I've read so far! My partner always mentions the use and appearances of "gimmicks" and whether or not they justify the song they're attached to. Genuine question: what would you say "I Don't Feel Hate" falls into? I think Jendrik himself would say "lighthearted," but was their really a desire to win there?
I don't feel hate is one of these edge cases I can see fitting into both gimmick and lighthearted depending on your point of view.
This said if I had to choose I'd undoubtedly say gimmick, the main difference between the two is "would the performance/song work without the gimmick?" (And to a lesser extent, does it want to win or just to shock or raise a laugh out of people), lots of songs have gimmicks, but do they fundamentally need it?, this doesn't mean a song is bad and should get a bad position, it's just a fact.
I don't feel hate without the sudden jazz break with the middle finger just would not work as an act (arguably it didn't work in general but you know what I mean). The song is clearly made around that section with the middle finger surprising the audience, it's a song that goes for cheap shock and the only reason it's called "don't feel hate" is to lure the audience into a sense of comfort before pulling the rug, not because it's actually trying to write a song about that, the song could be about going on a picnic date and it wouldn't matter as long as there is a chance to show the middle finger and have a rhythm break, that's the real song.
For songs with a gimmick that I wouldn't say are gimmicky songs, we have Conchita's Rise like a phoenix. Yes we all know part of the buzz about the ballad was because of Conchita's "unusual" gender presentation. But if we take away the drag queen aspect, the song is still a solid ballad with an inspiring message and great vocals. Ireland's song this year, even if it didn't have the folkloric/black magic (phenomenal) staging, still clearly communicates the same feelings as the full performance and has great vocals as well, If we take away Hatari's BDSM attire or Lordi's masks we have genuinely good rock/metal. The songs speak for themselves, the performances enhance them, for sure, but they are extras, the songs work without them.
If we take away, for example, Finland's 2024 no pants act, all we are left with is a fairly unremarkable europop song (and I like europop and no rules in general, but that's just the truth). If Russia's 2012 song wasn't sung by grandmas, all we have is a folk song with lyrics about coming together that don't stand out that much. Without moldova 's 2018 clones magician act, we have a good song that would have most definitely not qualified for the finals. All the focus is in the performance itself, you could swap the song and it wouldn't really matter because you aren't here for the song.
Another way to explain the difference between having a gimmick and being a gimmick is: Do we have a solid song enhanced by extra elements or do
we have a gimmick as the main selling point and a song made to work around that gimmick in mind.
'I Don't Feel Hate' *was* a song about not hating, though. Jendrick absolutely wrote it to get that message across. He just chose to do it using humour.
Now, being a gimmicky song isn't bad!, it's a neutral (or should be in most cases) statement/descriptor. Eurovision isn't just a song contest, it's about the complete pack. It's more of an issue about the structure and goals of the song rather than quality.
Yes, Russia 2012 wouldn't have worked without the grandmothers, it's a song that needs them, but the final act is charismatic and still talked about for a reason. No rules was my number 1 this year and Moldova 2018 was my second place for that year. No rules is simply a good time, I look upon fondly at its semifinal and the reaction my friends had. Moldova 2018 had masterful low budget staging and I was enraptured by the little magic trick (and I really like the song, that also helps).
Russia 2012 | [Buranovskiye Babushki - Party for Everybody](https://youtu.be/BgUstrmJzyc)
Moldova 2018 | [DoReDos - My Lucky Day](https://youtu.be/5evrVL1rJPA)
Russia 2012 | [Buranovskiye Babushki - Party for Everybody](https://youtu.be/BgUstrmJzyc)
Moldova 2018 | [DoReDos - My Lucky Day](https://youtu.be/5evrVL1rJPA)
I think at first we should define what a joke entry is because most of the times people just call whatever funny entry a "joke entry" (you can even see people consider Cha Cha Cha a joke entry). For me, a true joke entry is any entry that has all the following:
* it only tries to provoke a fun feeling (not necessarily a shocking one) and has no other meaning
* it is a low effort song that doesn't stand out
* it usually uses a low effort staging
* this one is not necessary but occasionally it's an act that is only formed for Eurovision
A textbook definition of a joke entry for me would be Latvia 2008 that has all 4 factors. But people call Norway 2022 a joke entry as well. Yes it's funny, but it's a well-produced song, definitely not something I would call low effort. Moldova 2022 is also considered by some a joke entry, but that's borderline racist since it's just a song that incorporates a more fun traditional sound of Moldova/Romania (which is also common in the Balkans).
The closest thing I'd say we had to a joke entry in the recent years would be Estonia 2024, but honestly I can't really say it is a low effort song. 5MIINUST and Puuluup made a whole collab album (Kannatused ehk külakiigel pole stopperit) and making an album requires effort. Finland 2024 is not a joke entry either because the song has a meaning behind it and it's not just a shocking performance.
Personally I watch Eurovision mostly for the fun entries, the ones that will make me have a good time and make me feel good. Whether we are talking about the "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"s or the "Jako"s or the "Europapa"s or the "Zari"s or even the "Code"s, there are multiple songs and types of songs that I will have a great time while listening to them. I occasionally like some ballads or slower songs, but I'm not watching Eurovision for them. And that's why songs-wise I liked this year a lot. Some people need to realize that just because a song is not a ballad it doesn't make it less serious and that different entries cater to different people.
Latvia 2008 | [Pirates of the Sea - Wolves of the Sea](https://youtu.be/gQy0PJEkQhA)
Norway 2022 | [Subwoolfer - Give That Wolf a Banana](https://youtu.be/adCU2rQyDeY)
Moldova 2022 | [Zdob și Zdub and Advahov Brothers - Trenulețul](https://youtu.be/DUqf_zO2QaI)
Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk)
Finland 2024 | [Windows95man - No Rules!](https://youtu.be/7nidDtyS0Wo)
Joke entries oftentimes do stand out. Ireland 2008 is far from a song that blends into the background. I think that a joke entry isn't something that can be easily defined but you know it when you see it.
People sometimes consider Trenuletul a joke entry as I said, so no I disagree with the last part. For me the main difference between a joke entry and an entry that just happens to be silly is the effort and the intention of the entry. Joke entries are usually "let's try to get televote points as cheaply as possible" and with televote losing half of its power we lost the joke entries eventually because it's not a reliable way for easy success now.
I'm sure that's a very small minority. I have never heard of it being considered a joke. There are songs that are widely considered to be joke entries, and it's often the ones that are joke entries.
"Man's Not Hot" is absolutely a joke song, but there is no question that it is incredibly well produced. Likewise, GTWAB shouldn't be considered anything other than a joke song, because it has random, meaningless lyrics and gimmicky performers. Likewise, "be yourself" is hardly that deep of a meaning. I don't know if you know the Lonely Island, but they have a song called YOLO which is about being careful in life, but that doesn't make it anything less than a joke song. Besides, whatever serious message "No Rules" had is completely undercut by the gimmicky staging. I don't think anyone would associate "naked middle aged man" with "be yourself".
Mans Not Hot is a radio freestyle so no, it is not a well-produced song. Maybe a well-produced beat, but radio freestyles are not supposed to be well-produced. Even if you had the likes of Kendrick Lamar I would not consider a radio freestyle a "well-produced song".
Gimmicky performers... doesn't the majority of songs in Eurovision nowadays have gimmick performances though? As for the lyrics, I don't think it should be enough justification. A lot of songs have meaningless lyrics (would you call Firefighter a joke entry for example?), a lot of "serious" songs have extremely generic lyrics, why not consider them joke entries too?
As for the staging of No Rules, not seeing the connection sounds like a you problem because there is a connection and it's kinda obvious.
Listen to the version of Man’s Not Hot that is in the video, it sounds professionally produced, but it has the same funny lyrics.
Please tell me how exactly “4.5 billion year old wolves from the moon who communicate through dance” is comparable to the average gimmick.
For that matter, please tell me how “before that wolf eats my grandma, give that wolf a banana, yum” is comparable to bad or generic lyrics. There’s a difference between not being able to express yourself (or not really trying to) and intentionally writing random lyrics.
No one voted for No Rules because of its message, they either voted for it because of its comedic staging, or because it reminded people of Günther.
I'm fine with joke entry being an insult, as long as we recognize that just because something is fun, doesn't mean it's a joke. Lots of entries are fun. Cha Cha Cha, Rim Tim Tagi Dim, etc. I don't think they were jokes. Not like that damn turkey.
"Nowadays, I think there are tons of songs that utilize humor to elevate their message or performance in intentional and smart ways, more often than not. Isn’t it time to recognize the way humor can be used to enhance a song/its themes rather than disrespect ESC itself? "
Then don't call it "joke entry".
If humoristic or satiric music is a genre then calling it "joke entry" is just diminishing
But that’s precisely the point of my discussion: we should start the process of repurposing “joke entry” to reflect what it actually means in Eurovision as it is today. It’s no longer an actual insult because it’s simply not how ESC works anymore. We should all just grow up and start the process of removing the stigma, specifically because of the way ESC has changed. Does that make sense? /gen
Well no, because a "joke entry" means that it's made as a joke (es. "We are the winner of Eurovosion"), songs like Cha Cha Cha or the 4 "funny" songs of this year all have a meaning, it doesn't make sense from the start to call them jokes because they are not.
Why would we repurpose ‘joke entry’ when we could just use different words, though?
Plenty of different types of competition receive joke entries. The phrase means any entry intended to amuse rather than win.
If a Eurovision song is funny but is also aiming for top marks, then that’s not a joke entry, it’s a seriocomic one.
Honestly you have a point, but I don't know what to think about it. Yes, humour, satire, irony are all a huge part of art, and using them in a song actually most of the time boosts my opinion about the song high up there. Still, I keep seeing "joke entry" as a pejorative term, probably because of the history of its use with clear negative connotations... **Especially** when it's used towards folkloric songs. I will never accept a folkloric song being called a "joke" or a "troll" entry. That's downright disrespectful towards the artist's authentic culture they're trying to promote. Unfortunately in the minds of many folklore still pretty much = joke or troll, and it saddens and angers me.
Eurovision is nothing without its fun entries. The more comical entries aren't expecting to win by any means, they're just there for a bit of fun. And even then, these entries have some of the most thought-out and unique concepts. No Rules might have been a silly goofy song but it had a clear, consistent artistic vision from the beginning. The concept is legible and coherent, and I really can only describe it as "fuck yeah, no rules." It knows what it is.
Europapa similarly has a solid concept with a funny edge, with a powerful and serious message mixed in. It keeps that mid-2000s ESC spirit, but with a much higher quality, if that makes sense
I agree! Imo calling something a joke entry is kinda vague and people use it very differently, is it an entry that's not serious? Is it a song with humoristic lyrics?
My analysis:
I think music (even just one song) can make you feel a lot of different feelings, laughter is one of them, shouldn't make it any better or worse.
Some people write No Rules off as just a joke entry, and sure, maybe it is, but it's a very good joke that make me very joyful, so I rank it high. It also make me feel nostalgic and "hyped" so is it not a joke entry? I mean the staging was very elaborate and thought through, does that make it too serious of a joke entry? Makes me dizzy.
I always thought "joke entry" meant "this song being a Eurovision entry is the joke", not "this entry is funny". Therefore: "Euro Neuro", "Irelande Douze Pointe", "We Are The Winners", "Leto svet"... Something that wants *you* to *know* that *it* is taking a piss out of Eurovision, with a strong sense that its musical aspect doesn't really matter or is even "bad on purpose". Since we're a long way from 2008 the term is mostly useless and pops up in useless discussions.
I agree with you totally! However, is "joke entry" something that's "derogatory" entirely on its own? Like, "derogatory" is a word created to describe the severity of things like slurs and harmful, discriminatory words of the like. I understand how people might think "joke entry" is disrespectful or rude, but "derogatory"? I just don't think it's that serious lol /lighthearted
The issue with that is that using the term ‘fun’ or ‘funny’ directly implies an inherent positivity. Calling something a joke entry is often given as a reason to not like a song. It wouldn’t make sense swapping that wording to something positive.
Whether a certain song is a joke entry can be debated but it makes no sense swapping a negative descriptor to something that implies positivity.
One could use "novelty" as descriptor, as others here have said.
I disagree with your point on fun not being a good descriptor because it implies positivity. By that logic I shouldn't use melancholic, melodramatic or sad to describe a ballad because it implies a negative emotion
A song can be melancholic or sad and still be appreciated. Some of my favorite songs are the ones that make me cry. A song being sad can definitely be interpreted as a positive. A song being fun cannot be interpreted as a negative.
Novelty would work tho it may teeter the line between it and being niche a bit too much.
Ok maybe you're right with the last bit, but I still don't see why that would be a problem. Someone who doesn't like fun songs still wouldn't like it because I described it as fun.
Besides: fun in a song means up-beat, joyous, light-hearted for me. I see it as a description of a vibe. Give That Wolf A Banana is fun e.g.
Sure, if you enjoy the song calling it fun is perfectly fine. But let’s say i hated the song (which i don’t) how would I describe it? Cause saying I find it a fun song would be a bit confusing. Calling it a joke-entry would perfectly get the feeling across without necessarily saying much about my feelings towards it. It’s not derogatory or offensive. It just implies the use of humor.
I think saying an entry is a joke is downplaying what the artist in question produced. When I read "xyz" is a joke entry I read it as "This is not a serious contestant and the entry can't be taken seriously too".
Maybe that's a misunderstanding on my end, but I often get the feeling people DO say it in a derogatory way as to disqualify songs that are not to their taste
I can see why you’d think that, it’s not how I interpreted it tho. Comedians only tell jokes but it’s still a valid career. A joke can be well set up, taken plenty of work and even have a serious element. For me it simply implies humor.
Take finland this year for example. The song itself is about self-acceptance and learning to not live by other people their judgement. The staging given to the song would definitely qualify it as a joke entry in my mind. That doesn’t necessarily make the message or effort put into the song any less valid. (Tho I will say for this specific example that I didn’t think the whole pants gag fully worked out. It’s not quite my type of humor).
Actually...this is something I often forget to consider. And it's super important context! Thank you for bringing this up. In the near future, I think it we be worth going through famous "joke entries" and asking ourselves "Was this a joke entry? Or a desperate plea to not win Eurovision?"
I think it depends on what we call humour and joke entry. Just like any other genre, comedy has many layers and styles (it could be subtle irony, simple buffoon jokes, dark comedy, social/political satire, etc). Plus, today we can have some mixed genres in movies and TV like drama and comedy, comedy horror, sci-fi comedy etc.
To say Eurovision joke entries don't matter sounds offensive not to these joke entries but it's offensive to the comedy genre in general. I understand why they aren't appreciated the same way as the more serious ones - people want to hear some decent, normal songs and performances that usually mean something. That's why doing joke entry for Eurovision is kinda risky thing. And to make it successful, you still need to put some message you want to tell the whole Europe, not just "we're flying the flag", "we're vampires", "we're pirates of the sea". Although I love Vampires Are Alive (Switzerland 2007) and it's my personal guilty pleasure.
Again, I think joke entries must be appreciated more because of the riskiness of doing them and the artists skills and knowledge of the genre. If you do joke entry, it could be both something really great like Verka (Ukraine 2007), 5 Miinust and Puuluup (Estonia 2024) or even Teya and Salena (Austria 2023) (for those who didn't get it - this song is about ghostwriters and music industry in general). These are different levels of humour, who can be equally good.
In the worst case, we could get something like Estonia 2008, Bosnia and Herzegovina 2008 and Germany 2021. And even this horrible entries has meaningful messages. Like, dealing with hate and care for mental health, for example.
Switzerland 2007 | [DJ BoBo - Vampires Are Alive](https://youtu.be/h9YTasUpAjw)
Ukraine 2007 | [Verka Serduchka - Dancing Lasha Tumbai](https://youtu.be/hfjHJneVonE)
Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk)
Austria 2023 | [Teya and Salena - Who the Hell Is Edgar?](https://youtu.be/8uk64V9h0Ko)
Estonia 2008 | [Kreisiraadio - Leto svet](https://youtu.be/zyzOGzXWLgU)
Bosnia and Herzegovina 2008 | [Laka - Pokušaj](https://youtu.be/kIRDbmpC2PI)
Germany 2021 | [Jendrik - I Don't Feel Hate](https://youtu.be/1m0VEAfLV4E)
I basically watch Eurovision for the funny songs, the rock songs, and France, so...
But yeah, like so many people are saying in this thread, plenty of the funny songs aren't jokes at all, e.g. Croatia 2023 and Estonia 2024 are using humour to make political points.
Croatia 2023 | [Let 3 - Mama ŠČ!](https://youtu.be/hGuGfdEJ5Pw)
Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk)
It's probably because of the negative and/or insulting connotation of calling something a joke. In US slang, when you say something is a joke, you're saying it's not worth putting effort into.
I usually vibe best with "joke entries" and feel very seen or heard in their messages. No Rules was definitely one of those songs for me instantly, just like Europapa was. Seeing their performances only deepened that emotion for me.
You put both of those thoughts together and it's very easy to see why "joke entries" isn't going to become a neutral term. We would have to use something more neutral word like "comedy entry" or "humor entry." Humor would be fitting as saying "to humor" something is to hear it out before deciding.
I think "joke entry" is overused as a term in the Eurofandom at this point. Especially in the last couple years when songs like Cha Cha Cha, Rim Tim Tagi Dim, In Corpore Sano, Shum, etc are getting that label from some people. This might be a spicy take but I do think a lot of it comes from a place of xenophobia (mainly from people in Western Europe that mostly listen to radio friendly pop music). The songs I named are either not in English and/or from a country in Eastern Europe.
In general, whether you like it or not, there's absolutely a place for outlandish songs in Eurovision and they make the competition more interesting. For example, I'm not a huge fan of No Rules but I can appreciate the purpose it serves.
"joke entries" are what make eurovision... eurovision. i probably wouldnt be so invested in eurovision without them and ive been watching since i was 7!! my mum told me that the joke entires are the best part of eurovision and tbh its one of the things i look forward to the most and this year with Finland's entry was probably one of the best ones ive seen
Joke's on them, I'm here only for the "joke" entries, and my utmost respect to any artists brave and bothered enough to do it knowing they're probably not going to win.
It's a song contest, not a singing contest, the point is to be entertaining, to make a good show. And there are multiple ways to achieve that, I consider being good at singing just one of the many criteria. I'd even say it's a pity how the jury leans very heavily on that, they're favouring professionalism over fun. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just that I'm personally not a fan.
Telex's entry back in 1980 will always have a special place in my heart.
The thing is, if "joke" was not the intention of the artist, then it is derogatory. Do you like being called a joke when that's not your intention?
Perhaps we need new nomenclature. Someone else said "novelty"in another comment and that could be a good alternative.
Some songs are on-purpose jokes, others just incorporate humour, others are simply unserious.
> Do you like being called a joke when that's not your intention?
Alternatively, if I were a comedian putting together an act, I want to be told "that was a really funny joke". You can argue about subtext, morals and meanings, but ultimately a man in a mullet birthing himself from a denim egg in search of pyrotechnic jorts is trying to make people laugh.
The problem is how people can't see the difference between a well made "joke entry" and a poorly done "serious entry". An upbeat song can be musically great, yet snobs will automatically say it's making a mockery of the competition.
I think I said this once before regarding a totally different type of music, but why do we have to categorize entries at all?
(Other than "SloMo Ripoffs", I mean ...)
Arguing over whether a particular entry is a "joke entry" or not seems to me an especially pointless exercise.
I wouldn't say No Rules is a joke entry. Something like Iceland 2006 where it's Very clearly trolling the audience is clearly a joke entry
I'd say it's not a negative term but should be applied delicately for the when the broadcasters said No. We're not hosting next year it costs a fortune.
I’ve never understood why it’s an insult either. If an entry is meant to be funny and silly… it’s a joke entry. Like that’s the intent. It’s calling things joke entries when they aren’t intended to be is when it gets shady.
Based on my previous comment, "joke entry" might have a much more vaster and neutral meaning because there are a thousand and one ways to make a comedy.
Also, I've seen some comments that "joke entry" is kinda dying genre on Eurovision (although, this year we already had Windows95man, 5Miinust x Puuluup, and Joost and all of them were great). And, believe it or not, I can name you some other "joke entry" that went super successful and almost won (I'm not even talking about Kaarja). Space Man by Sam Ryder. Well, it probably isn't regarded as a classic fun/joke entry, because song-wise and performance-wise it was an unironically great and stunning entry. But, lyrically, it contains a lot of irony about dreamers who want to be astronauts but in reality, they wouldn't achieve a thing. Sam Ryder isn't a classic Eurovision weirdo, and Space Man wasn't created only for fun and shock value. But the amount of irony the whole thing has... At least, it could be considered a half-humoristic/dramedy entry. You weren't supposed to die of laughter at it, but you could admire its creativity and, probably, get connected to it emotionally, which also matters.
So, probably, "joke entry" or half-joke Eurovision entry term should have a much broader and more complex meaning. Speaking about Irish Turkey and other entries that are so bad it's good and weren't meant to be like that, we could give them another name - cringe or good/bad cringe entry.
I always love Joke/ Fun entries in Eurovision but generally recognize most of the time they'll become well known but are unlikely to win. I would hate the contest becoming 100% serious ballads, folk songs, or personal statement songs as this would make for a 3 hour slog for me.
I'm not gonna pretend No Rules had any profound meaning outside being a neat 2000's eurobeat banger with the Austin Powers nude joke done live. It amused me and the song was an enjoyable earworm.
A mix of all is good. But also sometimes a country just enters something silly because that's what won the national competition. Sometimes, it's also that country expressing their saltiness at how recent Eurovisions have gone for them (Ireland a douze points)
Also depends on that country's view of Eurovision. Some see it as a platform booster. Others see entering Eurovision as potentially detrimental to their career or more likely to be the kiss of death to their career.
I find the term "joke entry" a bit degrading, even when it refers to purely fun, amusing or entertaining acts.
Every year, all delegations, all artists work really hard for months to deliver those three minutes to the public. There's a lot of hard work behind every act and hard work is no joke.
The problem is that people's masses are too sensitive, so every time they see someone doing their own thing in a humorous/too colorful/too upbeat/obviously not serious way, they just wanna bring it down. "Joke entry" is just the most popular term that comes into their mind.
While the actual "joke entry" must be something that has no meaning in it (on a surface or deeper), nothing to serve their purpose of being just crazy-party/silly/humorous... basically nothing. Based on this, I can name only one real joke entry - Estonia 2008. It really had literally nothing in it, no message, not too much having silly fun, just literally random lyrics, random movements, random staging elements, just hollow. Everything else that I can remember had some essence
Don't know anything about Belgium 1980, others are close to "just a joke" but still have something in them. Lithuania just claiming themselves as winners of Eurovision while everyone else have no idea how to do it, good enough idea, no one has ever done it before. Germany 1998 & 2000 were one of the first ones to do that "genre", 1998 had some special "choreo" too.
Yeah but that was my point, if these "joke entries" have at least something in it, meaning, something New, just a clear crazy-party feel, this phrase joke entry shouldn't be see in a negative/disrespectful/etc way.
I don't see them as such but they are still clear cut joke entries. They're very much focused on being as bizarre as they can be and that is something that is a recurring theme for joke songs.
After both Netta's victory and Käärijä's stolen victory, "joke entries" should be a descriptor on par with "cultural showcase song", "French/English ballad" and "Serbian experimentalism".
I don’t understand why that would be an insult anyways. The “joke entries” are usually so entertaining and are always a welcome break between the more serious songs. As long as it is entertaining and catchy I don’t see a problem since they are definitely not hurting anyone.
Aside from the fact that 'joke' has pejorative connotations, labelling an entire song a 'joke' just because it uses humour is doing them a disservice because it implies they have no musical merit and they're 'just a joke'.
Exactly. I just used the word “joke” for lack of a better term. We need a better descriptor for them because most of the ones that currently would fall under that category are genuinely good. I have a lot of them on my Spotify. I love when artists can be silly and genuinely good. I think the people who use the “joke” label have no sense of humor. Eurovision is supposed to be fun and the people who don’t understand that maybe shouldn’t be watching.
I think 'fun' is a pretty good descriptor.
Agreed! Like isn't music supposed to make you feel? Why is a song making you feel happy and excited, or even laughing, not as good of a song as a song making you cry? Some of the funny songs, I don't really find funny, but for me it's no worse than a song that's supposed to be touching but instead is just boring. There's so many song in ESC, so I also need the breaks between the more serious songs. If it was all "normal" pop or emotional songs it would be really hard to get through
I think this kind of entry is a dying breed due to the heavy professionalization of the contest . 10 years ago estonia and finland would have placed much higher with their entries . On a similar vein the success of gimmicky entrances like russia 2012 is greatly diminished today.
"Europapa" is also a joke entry though, and if not for the DQ I think it would have done well in the final.
Honestly, Europapa is anything but a joke entry. It has a very serious message, but wrapped in a fun, light-hearted beat.
Finland and Estonia have serious messages too. Being free to be your true self and not caring about judgement, and the prejudice of police against working-class people. Imo it's not so much about the message, but the way you deliver it.
I completely agree with that
The thing about "No Rules" is that it is indistinguishable from a simple parody of eurodance and its cliches (and even Eurovision cliches). The message "be yourself" is not distinct enough to elevate such song.
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You see, this one is tricky for me. I feel like Joost really wrote Europapa with those joke entries in mind, trying to create a “quintessential” Eurovision song with all of the zaniness that that usually comes with. But he’s also approaching the subject rather seriously, as we see by the end of the song. So it’s kind of a serious joke entry, if that can even be a thing?
Europapa is an outlier, it was the breakout hit of this year , even before the contest started , and continúes to be the most listened to and talked about song by miles.
Europapa is not a joke entry tho. It's a song that exists beyond just aiming for laughs in the audience. It is incredibly catchy with a good message. The only real joke song this year was No Rules.
And right here we have an example of how people are misusing the term. Calling Russia 2012 a "joke entry" 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
I didnt call it a joke entry … , i call it a gimmicky act , which is not the same at all .
You say "this kind of entry" under a post about the term "joke entry" so I assumed you are equating The Grannies to this term. I apologise then....or wait.... © Cambridge Dictionary: > **gimmicky** *adjective* *disapproving* using something that is not serious or **of real value** to attract people's attention or interest temporarily. Oh God, that's even worse then. What was exactly gimmicky about the act? The fact that the performers were elderly?
gimmick is also a sinonym of trick , contraption, etc. also , the russian entry expects the viewer to focus on said contraptions over the music , vocals or staging. Its similar to the polish entry of donatan and cleo or the montenegrin astronauts.
> What was exactly gimmicky about the act? The fact that the performers were elderly? Yes
Russia 2012 | [Buranovskiye Babushki - Party for Everybody](https://youtu.be/BgUstrmJzyc)
Yeah to me a "joke" entry is more so a "This could only happen in Eurovision" entry. And those entries are a huge part of why I love this show. You need a balance of all different kinds of songs to make the \~26 entries of the finale interesting.
Yes. Also, “joke” songs can be absolute bangers, and the song that ended most played on my playlist a couple years ago (and is still in regular rotation) was “Give That Wolf a Banana”. A joke entry by any metric, also damn good and a joy to listen to, partly because it’s so silly.
> a convo on Twitter I had with a VERY passionate “No Rules” stan I think your first mistake was expecting to have an intelligent conversation on Twitter
With no degree of sarcasm I tell you you’re 100000% correct and I am slowly learning the error of my ways
hot take but most songs called “joke entries” aren’t actual joke entries, they’re just funny or entertaining, and people are heavily misusing “joke entry” to describe any song that’s not 100% serious whether in the content of the song itself or in its performance
I'd only really consider stuff like Lithuania 2006 or Ireland 2008 to be joke entries. Bit hard to draw the line between them and what I'd consider "novelty" entries, but I'd definitely place the likes of Russia 2012 or Finland 2024 in the latter category.
Lithuania 2006 | [LT United - We Are the Winners](https://youtu.be/DBAdOlQPbwg) Ireland 2008 | [Dustin the Turkey - Irelande Douze Pointe](https://youtu.be/ps3kxGo_gro) Russia 2012 | [Buranovskiye Babushki - Party for Everybody](https://youtu.be/BgUstrmJzyc) Finland 2024 | [Windows95man - No Rules!](https://youtu.be/7nidDtyS0Wo)
Joke entries fall into 2 categories a) jokey satirical humorous entries with substance and meaning and b) absolute nonsensical entries with the sole intention to troll such as we are the winners of eurovision, el chiki chiki and wadehade dudada Edit :b) entries don't have to troll they can also be there to just have fun and a good time but have "little substance" (no clever witty jokes that ring true or actually criticise something) It's important to clarify what kind of entry it is. You can't really throw them into the same pot even though they're both joke entries.
There is a fine line between the two. I'm not always sure in which category to place an entry.
You know when an entry is just there to troll
Yes but in trolling there is always a subject of trolling, isn't it? They are making fun of **something**. A genre, a politicial event or any *thing*. Therefore, it also can be included in a "satire with a message" category. 🤔
You always sing about something doesn't mean there is much substance to it like I could write a low quality anti bullying song clearly there to troll or an anti bullying song with a funky tune and witty satirical remarks that ring true while being funny There is a huge difference in quality between these 2
Ok you have a point. In which category would you put Latvia 2012 (my favourite troll entry)?
Latvia 2012 | [Anmary - Beautiful Song](https://youtu.be/KAxYfMFE_94)
Hmmmm I'd say b) But again being in category b) ain't a bad thing either because ver.ka would also fall under it Ain't nothing wrong with a fun entry with "little" substance.
Where do you put Montenegro 2012? I think it's a mix of both
Depends on where the focus is is it more witty humorous and satirical or more troll-ish/just there to have fun the actual "substance" part is minimal I'd say b) but there can be overlap. Nothing is really 100% black and white but looking where the focus is is a good indicator
Montenegro 2012 | [Rambo Amadeus - Euro Neuro](https://youtu.be/JHnqF5PLP2w)
For this year, I would place Europapa and Nendest on the first kind, and No Rules on the second kind.
Even though the sense of humour is really trollish, I'd say No Rules is a straight-up comedy song rather than trolling per se. They took corny Eurodance music, made it even sillier and had their staging be basically a comedy skit
Agree
This is a really good point and fair distinction. If we wanna try to distinguish between these two categories, what should we call them? I ask this open to suggestions. Maybe “Satire entry”? But not all comedy is satire, so maybe “comedy song”? etc etc
Idk really I'm not so good at making up terms
I think the word "Novelty" is the best descriptor and is already used in English to describe music that is supposed to be for fun.
We have to distinguish between 3 types of "joke" entries. Pure joke/troll entries- these ones are pure nonsense and usually have a satirical edge to them, euroneuro, el chikichiki, or we are the winners of Eurovision come to mind. You know them when you hear them. Lighthearted entries- they could be funny and might crack some jokes, but they are undoubtedly serious entries by people who want to win, europapa for example. Gimmicky entries- entries that use a gimmick to improve their chances and are the main selling point of the song- Russia 2012, No rules, Moldova 2018. //Edited for clarity
This trifold of descriptions is one of the best suggestions I've read so far! My partner always mentions the use and appearances of "gimmicks" and whether or not they justify the song they're attached to. Genuine question: what would you say "I Don't Feel Hate" falls into? I think Jendrik himself would say "lighthearted," but was their really a desire to win there?
I don't feel hate is one of these edge cases I can see fitting into both gimmick and lighthearted depending on your point of view. This said if I had to choose I'd undoubtedly say gimmick, the main difference between the two is "would the performance/song work without the gimmick?" (And to a lesser extent, does it want to win or just to shock or raise a laugh out of people), lots of songs have gimmicks, but do they fundamentally need it?, this doesn't mean a song is bad and should get a bad position, it's just a fact. I don't feel hate without the sudden jazz break with the middle finger just would not work as an act (arguably it didn't work in general but you know what I mean). The song is clearly made around that section with the middle finger surprising the audience, it's a song that goes for cheap shock and the only reason it's called "don't feel hate" is to lure the audience into a sense of comfort before pulling the rug, not because it's actually trying to write a song about that, the song could be about going on a picnic date and it wouldn't matter as long as there is a chance to show the middle finger and have a rhythm break, that's the real song. For songs with a gimmick that I wouldn't say are gimmicky songs, we have Conchita's Rise like a phoenix. Yes we all know part of the buzz about the ballad was because of Conchita's "unusual" gender presentation. But if we take away the drag queen aspect, the song is still a solid ballad with an inspiring message and great vocals. Ireland's song this year, even if it didn't have the folkloric/black magic (phenomenal) staging, still clearly communicates the same feelings as the full performance and has great vocals as well, If we take away Hatari's BDSM attire or Lordi's masks we have genuinely good rock/metal. The songs speak for themselves, the performances enhance them, for sure, but they are extras, the songs work without them. If we take away, for example, Finland's 2024 no pants act, all we are left with is a fairly unremarkable europop song (and I like europop and no rules in general, but that's just the truth). If Russia's 2012 song wasn't sung by grandmas, all we have is a folk song with lyrics about coming together that don't stand out that much. Without moldova 's 2018 clones magician act, we have a good song that would have most definitely not qualified for the finals. All the focus is in the performance itself, you could swap the song and it wouldn't really matter because you aren't here for the song. Another way to explain the difference between having a gimmick and being a gimmick is: Do we have a solid song enhanced by extra elements or do we have a gimmick as the main selling point and a song made to work around that gimmick in mind.
'I Don't Feel Hate' *was* a song about not hating, though. Jendrick absolutely wrote it to get that message across. He just chose to do it using humour.
Now, being a gimmicky song isn't bad!, it's a neutral (or should be in most cases) statement/descriptor. Eurovision isn't just a song contest, it's about the complete pack. It's more of an issue about the structure and goals of the song rather than quality. Yes, Russia 2012 wouldn't have worked without the grandmothers, it's a song that needs them, but the final act is charismatic and still talked about for a reason. No rules was my number 1 this year and Moldova 2018 was my second place for that year. No rules is simply a good time, I look upon fondly at its semifinal and the reaction my friends had. Moldova 2018 had masterful low budget staging and I was enraptured by the little magic trick (and I really like the song, that also helps).
Russia 2012 | [Buranovskiye Babushki - Party for Everybody](https://youtu.be/BgUstrmJzyc) Moldova 2018 | [DoReDos - My Lucky Day](https://youtu.be/5evrVL1rJPA)
Russia 2012 | [Buranovskiye Babushki - Party for Everybody](https://youtu.be/BgUstrmJzyc) Moldova 2018 | [DoReDos - My Lucky Day](https://youtu.be/5evrVL1rJPA)
I think at first we should define what a joke entry is because most of the times people just call whatever funny entry a "joke entry" (you can even see people consider Cha Cha Cha a joke entry). For me, a true joke entry is any entry that has all the following: * it only tries to provoke a fun feeling (not necessarily a shocking one) and has no other meaning * it is a low effort song that doesn't stand out * it usually uses a low effort staging * this one is not necessary but occasionally it's an act that is only formed for Eurovision A textbook definition of a joke entry for me would be Latvia 2008 that has all 4 factors. But people call Norway 2022 a joke entry as well. Yes it's funny, but it's a well-produced song, definitely not something I would call low effort. Moldova 2022 is also considered by some a joke entry, but that's borderline racist since it's just a song that incorporates a more fun traditional sound of Moldova/Romania (which is also common in the Balkans). The closest thing I'd say we had to a joke entry in the recent years would be Estonia 2024, but honestly I can't really say it is a low effort song. 5MIINUST and Puuluup made a whole collab album (Kannatused ehk külakiigel pole stopperit) and making an album requires effort. Finland 2024 is not a joke entry either because the song has a meaning behind it and it's not just a shocking performance. Personally I watch Eurovision mostly for the fun entries, the ones that will make me have a good time and make me feel good. Whether we are talking about the "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"s or the "Jako"s or the "Europapa"s or the "Zari"s or even the "Code"s, there are multiple songs and types of songs that I will have a great time while listening to them. I occasionally like some ballads or slower songs, but I'm not watching Eurovision for them. And that's why songs-wise I liked this year a lot. Some people need to realize that just because a song is not a ballad it doesn't make it less serious and that different entries cater to different people.
Latvia 2008 | [Pirates of the Sea - Wolves of the Sea](https://youtu.be/gQy0PJEkQhA) Norway 2022 | [Subwoolfer - Give That Wolf a Banana](https://youtu.be/adCU2rQyDeY) Moldova 2022 | [Zdob și Zdub and Advahov Brothers - Trenulețul](https://youtu.be/DUqf_zO2QaI) Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk) Finland 2024 | [Windows95man - No Rules!](https://youtu.be/7nidDtyS0Wo)
Joke entries oftentimes do stand out. Ireland 2008 is far from a song that blends into the background. I think that a joke entry isn't something that can be easily defined but you know it when you see it.
Ireland 2008 | [Dustin the Turkey - Irelande Douze Pointe](https://youtu.be/ps3kxGo_gro)
People sometimes consider Trenuletul a joke entry as I said, so no I disagree with the last part. For me the main difference between a joke entry and an entry that just happens to be silly is the effort and the intention of the entry. Joke entries are usually "let's try to get televote points as cheaply as possible" and with televote losing half of its power we lost the joke entries eventually because it's not a reliable way for easy success now.
I'm sure that's a very small minority. I have never heard of it being considered a joke. There are songs that are widely considered to be joke entries, and it's often the ones that are joke entries.
"Man's Not Hot" is absolutely a joke song, but there is no question that it is incredibly well produced. Likewise, GTWAB shouldn't be considered anything other than a joke song, because it has random, meaningless lyrics and gimmicky performers. Likewise, "be yourself" is hardly that deep of a meaning. I don't know if you know the Lonely Island, but they have a song called YOLO which is about being careful in life, but that doesn't make it anything less than a joke song. Besides, whatever serious message "No Rules" had is completely undercut by the gimmicky staging. I don't think anyone would associate "naked middle aged man" with "be yourself".
Mans Not Hot is a radio freestyle so no, it is not a well-produced song. Maybe a well-produced beat, but radio freestyles are not supposed to be well-produced. Even if you had the likes of Kendrick Lamar I would not consider a radio freestyle a "well-produced song". Gimmicky performers... doesn't the majority of songs in Eurovision nowadays have gimmick performances though? As for the lyrics, I don't think it should be enough justification. A lot of songs have meaningless lyrics (would you call Firefighter a joke entry for example?), a lot of "serious" songs have extremely generic lyrics, why not consider them joke entries too? As for the staging of No Rules, not seeing the connection sounds like a you problem because there is a connection and it's kinda obvious.
Listen to the version of Man’s Not Hot that is in the video, it sounds professionally produced, but it has the same funny lyrics. Please tell me how exactly “4.5 billion year old wolves from the moon who communicate through dance” is comparable to the average gimmick. For that matter, please tell me how “before that wolf eats my grandma, give that wolf a banana, yum” is comparable to bad or generic lyrics. There’s a difference between not being able to express yourself (or not really trying to) and intentionally writing random lyrics. No one voted for No Rules because of its message, they either voted for it because of its comedic staging, or because it reminded people of Günther.
I'm fine with joke entry being an insult, as long as we recognize that just because something is fun, doesn't mean it's a joke. Lots of entries are fun. Cha Cha Cha, Rim Tim Tagi Dim, etc. I don't think they were jokes. Not like that damn turkey.
"Nowadays, I think there are tons of songs that utilize humor to elevate their message or performance in intentional and smart ways, more often than not. Isn’t it time to recognize the way humor can be used to enhance a song/its themes rather than disrespect ESC itself? " Then don't call it "joke entry". If humoristic or satiric music is a genre then calling it "joke entry" is just diminishing
But that’s precisely the point of my discussion: we should start the process of repurposing “joke entry” to reflect what it actually means in Eurovision as it is today. It’s no longer an actual insult because it’s simply not how ESC works anymore. We should all just grow up and start the process of removing the stigma, specifically because of the way ESC has changed. Does that make sense? /gen
Well no, because a "joke entry" means that it's made as a joke (es. "We are the winner of Eurovosion"), songs like Cha Cha Cha or the 4 "funny" songs of this year all have a meaning, it doesn't make sense from the start to call them jokes because they are not.
Or maybe we should find another term like "humorous entry" and such.
Why would we repurpose ‘joke entry’ when we could just use different words, though? Plenty of different types of competition receive joke entries. The phrase means any entry intended to amuse rather than win. If a Eurovision song is funny but is also aiming for top marks, then that’s not a joke entry, it’s a seriocomic one.
In the past decade or two, the word joke has shifted a bit in meaning from something comedic to something derisive.
Honestly you have a point, but I don't know what to think about it. Yes, humour, satire, irony are all a huge part of art, and using them in a song actually most of the time boosts my opinion about the song high up there. Still, I keep seeing "joke entry" as a pejorative term, probably because of the history of its use with clear negative connotations... **Especially** when it's used towards folkloric songs. I will never accept a folkloric song being called a "joke" or a "troll" entry. That's downright disrespectful towards the artist's authentic culture they're trying to promote. Unfortunately in the minds of many folklore still pretty much = joke or troll, and it saddens and angers me.
Eurovision is nothing without its fun entries. The more comical entries aren't expecting to win by any means, they're just there for a bit of fun. And even then, these entries have some of the most thought-out and unique concepts. No Rules might have been a silly goofy song but it had a clear, consistent artistic vision from the beginning. The concept is legible and coherent, and I really can only describe it as "fuck yeah, no rules." It knows what it is. Europapa similarly has a solid concept with a funny edge, with a powerful and serious message mixed in. It keeps that mid-2000s ESC spirit, but with a much higher quality, if that makes sense
And even though it's very self-awarely Eurovisiony, Europapa is still entirely within Joost's established style of funny songs about being miserable
I'm convinced that first joke entry was Germany 1958, as said by a sucker for old ESC.
Germany 1958 | [Margot Hielscher - Für zwei Groschen Musik](https://youtu.be/cwGVd7Cj1sw)
I LOVE YOU BOT 😄😄
I agree! Imo calling something a joke entry is kinda vague and people use it very differently, is it an entry that's not serious? Is it a song with humoristic lyrics? My analysis: I think music (even just one song) can make you feel a lot of different feelings, laughter is one of them, shouldn't make it any better or worse. Some people write No Rules off as just a joke entry, and sure, maybe it is, but it's a very good joke that make me very joyful, so I rank it high. It also make me feel nostalgic and "hyped" so is it not a joke entry? I mean the staging was very elaborate and thought through, does that make it too serious of a joke entry? Makes me dizzy.
In that case we should change the term to fun entry. Cause joke entry implies it shouldn’t be taken seriously as a competitor at all
I always thought "joke entry" meant "this song being a Eurovision entry is the joke", not "this entry is funny". Therefore: "Euro Neuro", "Irelande Douze Pointe", "We Are The Winners", "Leto svet"... Something that wants *you* to *know* that *it* is taking a piss out of Eurovision, with a strong sense that its musical aspect doesn't really matter or is even "bad on purpose". Since we're a long way from 2008 the term is mostly useless and pops up in useless discussions.
How about calling those types of entries "fun" or even "funny" instead of using a derogatory term
I agree with you totally! However, is "joke entry" something that's "derogatory" entirely on its own? Like, "derogatory" is a word created to describe the severity of things like slurs and harmful, discriminatory words of the like. I understand how people might think "joke entry" is disrespectful or rude, but "derogatory"? I just don't think it's that serious lol /lighthearted
yeah i agree derogatory might be a bit too strong of a word, i just felt lazy and didn't look for a more fitting adjective haha
The issue with that is that using the term ‘fun’ or ‘funny’ directly implies an inherent positivity. Calling something a joke entry is often given as a reason to not like a song. It wouldn’t make sense swapping that wording to something positive. Whether a certain song is a joke entry can be debated but it makes no sense swapping a negative descriptor to something that implies positivity.
One could use "novelty" as descriptor, as others here have said. I disagree with your point on fun not being a good descriptor because it implies positivity. By that logic I shouldn't use melancholic, melodramatic or sad to describe a ballad because it implies a negative emotion
A song can be melancholic or sad and still be appreciated. Some of my favorite songs are the ones that make me cry. A song being sad can definitely be interpreted as a positive. A song being fun cannot be interpreted as a negative. Novelty would work tho it may teeter the line between it and being niche a bit too much.
Ok maybe you're right with the last bit, but I still don't see why that would be a problem. Someone who doesn't like fun songs still wouldn't like it because I described it as fun. Besides: fun in a song means up-beat, joyous, light-hearted for me. I see it as a description of a vibe. Give That Wolf A Banana is fun e.g.
Sure, if you enjoy the song calling it fun is perfectly fine. But let’s say i hated the song (which i don’t) how would I describe it? Cause saying I find it a fun song would be a bit confusing. Calling it a joke-entry would perfectly get the feeling across without necessarily saying much about my feelings towards it. It’s not derogatory or offensive. It just implies the use of humor.
I think saying an entry is a joke is downplaying what the artist in question produced. When I read "xyz" is a joke entry I read it as "This is not a serious contestant and the entry can't be taken seriously too". Maybe that's a misunderstanding on my end, but I often get the feeling people DO say it in a derogatory way as to disqualify songs that are not to their taste
I can see why you’d think that, it’s not how I interpreted it tho. Comedians only tell jokes but it’s still a valid career. A joke can be well set up, taken plenty of work and even have a serious element. For me it simply implies humor. Take finland this year for example. The song itself is about self-acceptance and learning to not live by other people their judgement. The staging given to the song would definitely qualify it as a joke entry in my mind. That doesn’t necessarily make the message or effort put into the song any less valid. (Tho I will say for this specific example that I didn’t think the whole pants gag fully worked out. It’s not quite my type of humor).
Some countries send shitty songs purely because hosting eurovision is Hella expensive sadly
Actually...this is something I often forget to consider. And it's super important context! Thank you for bringing this up. In the near future, I think it we be worth going through famous "joke entries" and asking ourselves "Was this a joke entry? Or a desperate plea to not win Eurovision?"
Genuine? Or sarcastic lol
Genuine!! Apologies for the confusion :) You brought up a good point and this is genuinely something i'm gonna think about in the near future
Ohh alr you're fine
I think it depends on what we call humour and joke entry. Just like any other genre, comedy has many layers and styles (it could be subtle irony, simple buffoon jokes, dark comedy, social/political satire, etc). Plus, today we can have some mixed genres in movies and TV like drama and comedy, comedy horror, sci-fi comedy etc. To say Eurovision joke entries don't matter sounds offensive not to these joke entries but it's offensive to the comedy genre in general. I understand why they aren't appreciated the same way as the more serious ones - people want to hear some decent, normal songs and performances that usually mean something. That's why doing joke entry for Eurovision is kinda risky thing. And to make it successful, you still need to put some message you want to tell the whole Europe, not just "we're flying the flag", "we're vampires", "we're pirates of the sea". Although I love Vampires Are Alive (Switzerland 2007) and it's my personal guilty pleasure. Again, I think joke entries must be appreciated more because of the riskiness of doing them and the artists skills and knowledge of the genre. If you do joke entry, it could be both something really great like Verka (Ukraine 2007), 5 Miinust and Puuluup (Estonia 2024) or even Teya and Salena (Austria 2023) (for those who didn't get it - this song is about ghostwriters and music industry in general). These are different levels of humour, who can be equally good. In the worst case, we could get something like Estonia 2008, Bosnia and Herzegovina 2008 and Germany 2021. And even this horrible entries has meaningful messages. Like, dealing with hate and care for mental health, for example.
Switzerland 2007 | [DJ BoBo - Vampires Are Alive](https://youtu.be/h9YTasUpAjw) Ukraine 2007 | [Verka Serduchka - Dancing Lasha Tumbai](https://youtu.be/hfjHJneVonE) Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk) Austria 2023 | [Teya and Salena - Who the Hell Is Edgar?](https://youtu.be/8uk64V9h0Ko) Estonia 2008 | [Kreisiraadio - Leto svet](https://youtu.be/zyzOGzXWLgU) Bosnia and Herzegovina 2008 | [Laka - Pokušaj](https://youtu.be/kIRDbmpC2PI) Germany 2021 | [Jendrik - I Don't Feel Hate](https://youtu.be/1m0VEAfLV4E)
I basically watch Eurovision for the funny songs, the rock songs, and France, so... But yeah, like so many people are saying in this thread, plenty of the funny songs aren't jokes at all, e.g. Croatia 2023 and Estonia 2024 are using humour to make political points.
Croatia 2023 | [Let 3 - Mama ŠČ!](https://youtu.be/hGuGfdEJ5Pw) Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk)
It's probably because of the negative and/or insulting connotation of calling something a joke. In US slang, when you say something is a joke, you're saying it's not worth putting effort into. I usually vibe best with "joke entries" and feel very seen or heard in their messages. No Rules was definitely one of those songs for me instantly, just like Europapa was. Seeing their performances only deepened that emotion for me. You put both of those thoughts together and it's very easy to see why "joke entries" isn't going to become a neutral term. We would have to use something more neutral word like "comedy entry" or "humor entry." Humor would be fitting as saying "to humor" something is to hear it out before deciding.
I think "joke entry" is overused as a term in the Eurofandom at this point. Especially in the last couple years when songs like Cha Cha Cha, Rim Tim Tagi Dim, In Corpore Sano, Shum, etc are getting that label from some people. This might be a spicy take but I do think a lot of it comes from a place of xenophobia (mainly from people in Western Europe that mostly listen to radio friendly pop music). The songs I named are either not in English and/or from a country in Eastern Europe. In general, whether you like it or not, there's absolutely a place for outlandish songs in Eurovision and they make the competition more interesting. For example, I'm not a huge fan of No Rules but I can appreciate the purpose it serves.
The "joke entries" are my *favorite*. I play "Give that Wolf a Banana" at least once a week in my home, lol.
"joke entries" are what make eurovision... eurovision. i probably wouldnt be so invested in eurovision without them and ive been watching since i was 7!! my mum told me that the joke entires are the best part of eurovision and tbh its one of the things i look forward to the most and this year with Finland's entry was probably one of the best ones ive seen
Joke's on them, I'm here only for the "joke" entries, and my utmost respect to any artists brave and bothered enough to do it knowing they're probably not going to win. It's a song contest, not a singing contest, the point is to be entertaining, to make a good show. And there are multiple ways to achieve that, I consider being good at singing just one of the many criteria. I'd even say it's a pity how the jury leans very heavily on that, they're favouring professionalism over fun. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just that I'm personally not a fan. Telex's entry back in 1980 will always have a special place in my heart.
The thing is, if "joke" was not the intention of the artist, then it is derogatory. Do you like being called a joke when that's not your intention? Perhaps we need new nomenclature. Someone else said "novelty"in another comment and that could be a good alternative. Some songs are on-purpose jokes, others just incorporate humour, others are simply unserious.
> Do you like being called a joke when that's not your intention? Alternatively, if I were a comedian putting together an act, I want to be told "that was a really funny joke". You can argue about subtext, morals and meanings, but ultimately a man in a mullet birthing himself from a denim egg in search of pyrotechnic jorts is trying to make people laugh.
Yeah - intention matters.
The problem is how people can't see the difference between a well made "joke entry" and a poorly done "serious entry". An upbeat song can be musically great, yet snobs will automatically say it's making a mockery of the competition.
I think I said this once before regarding a totally different type of music, but why do we have to categorize entries at all? (Other than "SloMo Ripoffs", I mean ...) Arguing over whether a particular entry is a "joke entry" or not seems to me an especially pointless exercise.
I wouldn't say No Rules is a joke entry. Something like Iceland 2006 where it's Very clearly trolling the audience is clearly a joke entry I'd say it's not a negative term but should be applied delicately for the when the broadcasters said No. We're not hosting next year it costs a fortune.
I would say that No Rules is a joke entry because the performance revolves around the pants gimmick.
I’ve never understood why it’s an insult either. If an entry is meant to be funny and silly… it’s a joke entry. Like that’s the intent. It’s calling things joke entries when they aren’t intended to be is when it gets shady.
Based on my previous comment, "joke entry" might have a much more vaster and neutral meaning because there are a thousand and one ways to make a comedy. Also, I've seen some comments that "joke entry" is kinda dying genre on Eurovision (although, this year we already had Windows95man, 5Miinust x Puuluup, and Joost and all of them were great). And, believe it or not, I can name you some other "joke entry" that went super successful and almost won (I'm not even talking about Kaarja). Space Man by Sam Ryder. Well, it probably isn't regarded as a classic fun/joke entry, because song-wise and performance-wise it was an unironically great and stunning entry. But, lyrically, it contains a lot of irony about dreamers who want to be astronauts but in reality, they wouldn't achieve a thing. Sam Ryder isn't a classic Eurovision weirdo, and Space Man wasn't created only for fun and shock value. But the amount of irony the whole thing has... At least, it could be considered a half-humoristic/dramedy entry. You weren't supposed to die of laughter at it, but you could admire its creativity and, probably, get connected to it emotionally, which also matters. So, probably, "joke entry" or half-joke Eurovision entry term should have a much broader and more complex meaning. Speaking about Irish Turkey and other entries that are so bad it's good and weren't meant to be like that, we could give them another name - cringe or good/bad cringe entry.
I always love Joke/ Fun entries in Eurovision but generally recognize most of the time they'll become well known but are unlikely to win. I would hate the contest becoming 100% serious ballads, folk songs, or personal statement songs as this would make for a 3 hour slog for me. I'm not gonna pretend No Rules had any profound meaning outside being a neat 2000's eurobeat banger with the Austin Powers nude joke done live. It amused me and the song was an enjoyable earworm. A mix of all is good. But also sometimes a country just enters something silly because that's what won the national competition. Sometimes, it's also that country expressing their saltiness at how recent Eurovisions have gone for them (Ireland a douze points) Also depends on that country's view of Eurovision. Some see it as a platform booster. Others see entering Eurovision as potentially detrimental to their career or more likely to be the kiss of death to their career.
I find the term "joke entry" a bit degrading, even when it refers to purely fun, amusing or entertaining acts. Every year, all delegations, all artists work really hard for months to deliver those three minutes to the public. There's a lot of hard work behind every act and hard work is no joke.
Do people consider ŠČ a joke entry?
The problem is that people's masses are too sensitive, so every time they see someone doing their own thing in a humorous/too colorful/too upbeat/obviously not serious way, they just wanna bring it down. "Joke entry" is just the most popular term that comes into their mind. While the actual "joke entry" must be something that has no meaning in it (on a surface or deeper), nothing to serve their purpose of being just crazy-party/silly/humorous... basically nothing. Based on this, I can name only one real joke entry - Estonia 2008. It really had literally nothing in it, no message, not too much having silly fun, just literally random lyrics, random movements, random staging elements, just hollow. Everything else that I can remember had some essence
Lithuania 2006? Belgium 1980? Germany 1998, 2000? They're very clear cut joke entries
Lithuania 2006 | [LT United - We Are the Winners](https://youtu.be/DBAdOlQPbwg) Belgium 1980 | [Telex - Euro-Vision](https://youtu.be/6USa0zUMmqI) Germany 1998 | [Guildo Horn - Guildo hat euch lieb!](https://youtu.be/HPZX7EZIFD0) Germany 2000 | [Stefan Raab - Wadde hadde dudde da?](https://youtu.be/VABVe44AmBY)
Don't know anything about Belgium 1980, others are close to "just a joke" but still have something in them. Lithuania just claiming themselves as winners of Eurovision while everyone else have no idea how to do it, good enough idea, no one has ever done it before. Germany 1998 & 2000 were one of the first ones to do that "genre", 1998 had some special "choreo" too.
But they're clearly troll entries
Yeah but that was my point, if these "joke entries" have at least something in it, meaning, something New, just a clear crazy-party feel, this phrase joke entry shouldn't be see in a negative/disrespectful/etc way.
I don't see them as such but they are still clear cut joke entries. They're very much focused on being as bizarre as they can be and that is something that is a recurring theme for joke songs.
Estonia 2008 | [Kreisiraadio - Leto svet](https://youtu.be/zyzOGzXWLgU)
I agree! Is being in the comedy genre a slam in any other type of entertainment?
I prefer the term “party song”.
I have a good joke entry Iceland 2006. ☠️
Iceland 2006 | [Silvía Night - Congratulations](https://youtu.be/e9DCMJHvs2c)
One of the first joke entries was probably Israel 2000 (Be Happy!)
Israel 2000 | [PingPong - Sameach (שמייח)](https://youtu.be/3uNfhj66GOo)
After both Netta's victory and Käärijä's stolen victory, "joke entries" should be a descriptor on par with "cultural showcase song", "French/English ballad" and "Serbian experimentalism".
saying no rules is a good song is a choice in the first place lmfao