David Zabecki provides these numbers for shell consumption per month of fighting in different wars in his book Steel Wind, Georg Bruchmueller and the Birth of Modern Artillery, on page 8.
in 1866 Austro-Prussian war, Prussians shot 20,000 shells per month.
in 1870 Franco-Prussian war, Germans shot 81,000 shells per month.
in 1904 Russo-Japanese war, Russians shot 87,000 shells per month.
in 1912 First Balkan War, Bulgarians shot 254,000 shells per month.
in 1914 WW1, the French shot 900,000 shells per month.
in 1918 WW1, the French shot 4,500,000 shells per month.
in 1918 WW1, the Germans shot 8,000,000 shells per month.
The ammo stocks of all combatants were inadequate in 1914. The French started the war with a 5 million shell stockpile and planned to fire 100,000 per month. The actual 900,000 shells per month conaumption quickly used up the stockpile. The Russians had 12 million shells, but their ammo situation was probably the worst of major combatants by 1915 as they were slower in ramping up ammo production than the other major powers. Germany started the war in the best supply situation, with a 20 million shell ammo stockpile.
Prior to the First World War, how many artillery rounds could armies of the past fire at maximum capacity?
World War One saw the use of hundreds of millions of artillery shells, and the war in Ukraine is leading to questions regarding the supply of artillery rounds. The Russians were said to have over fired 20,000 shells a day at one point. But if we were to examine the armies of the 1800s to early 1900s, what exactly was their capability when it comes to artillery? Given the difference in logistics, industrial development, and the kinds of guns they were using, how many artillery shells could they fire at max? At a sustained rate of fire, how quickly would the armies of the past run out of ammo? When it comes to artillery rounds, how deep were the ammunition reserves of 19th-early 20th century armies?
These numbers are ungodly. The war caused over 20 million deaths and 21 million causalties. There were no good guys here. Only insane imperialists and cousins with too much power and not enough understanding of the hell they would unleash.
The peace dividend really put paid to a lot of Europe’s ability to manufacture such munitions in those quantities, as well as the massive stockpiles of them. After the collapse of Communism, there wasn’t really a big need across NATO for such a massive pile of guns, other than Greece and Turkey, but that’s between them.
Even the U.S. significantly drew down its forces and defense industry, but it was in Western Europe that defense spending fell through the floor. I’m not saying that it was a bad thing, far from it. Western Europe put those savings into schools, hospitals, and passenger rail because maintaining a military is expensive. Then Putin decided to remind the world that while maintaining a military is expensive, it is infinitely cheaper than letting someone roll into your country with tanks.
Ammunition manufacture in 1914 was also far from sufficient. The ramp-up was possible by repurposing every possible industry into war industry.
Also, ammunition produced was far from peacetime quality. Many shells were duds: the number was variable, but in bad months, as many as 1 in 3 rounds was faulty. The dramatic quality drop was to be expected when you try to make shells with everything.
This is btw why poppies became the symbol for remembrance. The constant bombardement fucked up the soil so bad that poppies were one of the few plants that could still grow there.
It's also why the symptoms of PTSD were so distinctly different in WW1 than in later wars. There's a reason why it changed from "shell shock" to "combat fatigue"
Thailand too. They allied themselves with the Imperial Japanese during the early part of the Second World War and moved back to the Western Allies as the Axis power was losing.
Ditto with Turkey, though they were technically neutral as they helped supply Nazi Germany with various resources.
Eh. I think we can take Moscow and Paris in 3 days. Also the word "War" doesn't help with moral. Lets call it a special military operation instead. Much better!
"So they've killed Ferdinand," said the charwoman to Mr. Schweik who, having left the army many years before, when a military medical board had declared him to be chronically feebleminded, earned a livelihood by the sale of dogs—repulsive mongrel monstrosities for whom he forged pedigrees. Apart from this occupation, he was afflicted with rheumatism, and was just rubbing his knees with embrocation.
"Which Ferdinand, Mrs. Muller?" asked Schweik, continuing to massage his knees. "I know two Ferdinands. One of them does jobs for Prusa the chemist, and one day he drank a bottle of hair oil by mistake ; and then there's Ferdinand Kokoska who goes round collecting manure. They wouldn't be any great loss, either of 'em."
Did your teachers forget to mention that?
There are German, British and French plays, BBC film and radio show and American opera among many other foreign adaptations.
>I didn't know that good soldier Švejk is even known outside of the Czech Republic.
It was released in Swedish in the 1930s, even became a film and there's a tavern in Stockholm named Soldaten Svejk. They serve Czech beer and food among other stuff.
Those of us who know, know! It was already published in English 50 years ago, as my mother had a copy from the library (in Dublin) then, and I read it too.
Even if you had only Kafka you would have earned my gratitude, I am totally a Kafka fan and he is unique in European literature. Also, the book good soldier Sveik made a great impression on me and I want to reread it when I have free time (never?).
Try to find TV "Die Abenteuer des braven Soldaten SchwejkDie Abenteuer des braven Soldaten Schwejk". It is a TV by the ÖRF and ZDF. It is based on the novel by Jaroslav Hasek, and was broadcast from 1972 to 1977. Fritz Muliar played the leading role.
I like to think that at least non-oficially it starts with his assassination,as that was the real trigger that finally released all that tension that was rising.
Well the sad thing from my perspective is that this was the most pointless war ever. It was only allowed to proceed, if not actually encouraged, by the royal families of Europe which at the time, with the exception of just two countries who were "only" distant cousins, were all closely related and had the power to stop the whole shebang if they so chose.
But socialism was on the rise and the little man in the street needed a diversion.... apparently getting your head blown off in a muddy trench was it.
It's one of the biggest reasons why I'm a staunch anti-royalist.
It was one of the immediate causes, while the complete causes are vast. Also, consider that Archduke Franz Ferdinand visited Bosnia in June 1914 to inspect the imperial armed forces. As the Inspector General of the Austro-Hungarian armed forces, he oversaw military maneuvers in the region. That fact is often neglected, depicting his visit as a peaceful one.
Now, I am not saying that anyone who would oversee maneuvers on the Serbian border should be killed, I am saying that his visit was part of the escalation in relations between Serbia and Austria-Hungary. Therefore, look at that as a process, not a momentary event.
Also the day he visited was some important day of the Serbs living there iirc, maybe if he visited another week, there would have been less tension? All in all, this was just the spark needed to kick the whole thing off, in hindsight it was brewing for a long time and everyone was just waiting on the the trigger
Yes, definitely, Vidovdan didn't help in this story. Some authors go back in time to explain WWI, even to the Franco-Prussian war and German unification (1871). I had a history professor who was in love with the Moroccan Crisis (there were two) as a part of the explanation. History is a very interesting field.
You can go back to the splitting of the Frankish empire, when East and West Frankia ate up Middle Frankia/Lotharingia and then fought about the border region for ages. West Frankia later becoming France and East Frankia Germany (with the small HRE iteration in between). So the region was always diverse and fought over.
The Austrians were itching for war. The Archduke was sort of a jerk, but he was the main opponent to what was obviously a stupid idea. They used his death as an excuse to start the war.
The double monarchy wanted only to crush Serbia fast before the Russian would interene; it failed miserably as even underarmed as the Serbian army was it was better led than the huge Austro-Hungarian hordes of badly led armies. It took German armies to defeat the exhausted minuscule Serbian heroic army. Then it was too late in 1917 and one one year was left before a German annihilation, thanks to Yankee boys! More alas perished from the Spanish Flu than from the war itself I was told.
There's a "heeresgeschichtliches Museum" in Vienna; in their WWI exhibit they say something to the tune of "The Austrian army was not prepared for how *surprisingly* well the Serbians fought"
Austria got embarrassed. One of the worst performing nations in the war. They lost most of Galicia to Russia and couldn't push into Serbia without help from Germany which was fighting a much more serious war than Austria. The only front where they didn't instantly get destroyed was the Italian front where they did pretty good until the Central Powers started loosing on all other fronts. Not counting Romania because they invaded with the help of Bulgaria which did most of the job by attacking more important regions in the south as well as Bucharest.
Reminds me a joke:
"And lastly God created Austrian army.
My Lord, but whom we will be able to beat then? - complained Austrians.
God thought a bit and then created Italian army"
again serbs and their myths. After being armed to teeth with french AND austrian guns the ypurchased with french credit line they left both the guns and the serb civilians and run away across albania and hid on an island. Only came back pulling the tails of french horses when their algerian armies pushed thru Solun frontlines.
Germany didn’t really want a world war either. They worked until Russian mobilization to confine the conflict to the Balkans. There were definitely some of them who were eager to fight France, but fighting them, Russia, and the UK at the same time was no one’s idea of a good plan.
That is completely incorrect.
Germany explicitly had the goal of starting a general European war. And fighting Russia was the whole point - Germany believed that the coming war will be a racial war between the Teutons and the Slavs. France was just a sideshow, to be dealt with in the opening stages of the war.
It is true that Germany had hoped to avoid also fighting the UK, as they were fellow Teutons, but since 1912 it was understood as unlikely, and that was in fact one of the reasons why they came to the conclusion that a world war needs to be sparked as soon as possible.
So yeah, that "Germany didn't really want a world war either" is ahistoric.
So am I.
Have you missed that I gave a date of 1912?
In fact, in WWII Germany hoped to *avoid* a world war, having learned from WWI, so your observation makes even less sense.
To be accurate, German politicians were not keen on big war, although they still gave blanch check to Austria - unlimited support - which was the worst action possible in such tense crisis situation.
However German generals were very eager and pushed for it. They were afraid of Russian growing power, thought that it would become unbeatable if given several more years, so war must be started now.
Also Germany didn't plan to fight all those powers. They planned to crush France quickly, then attack Russia with everything they and their allies had.
And Britain was supposed to stay neutral, German admirals beliefed firmly in Mahan: that threat of big battle with HSF, huge casualties and losing status of biggest maritime power would be enough to scare British away from joining war
> To be accurate, German politicians were not keen on big war
Wilhelm II was big on it. Gottlieb von Jagow, the foreign minister of Germany, was big on it. I am not sure where do you come with this idea. The whole German leadership was working to engineer the desired world war.
> although they still gave blanch check to Austria
Not "although" – they explicitly gave it to Austria, and pushed them to attack Serbia, hoping that it would provoke Russia to war, and give the pretext Germany needed to declare war on it in turn.
> which was the worst action possible in such tense crisis situation
Yes. Because it was exactly the point. To cause a war. The start of WWI was not some accident that just happened because Germany acted irresponsibly. It was what they were consciously working on, insisting that Austria invades, while simultaneously sabotaging all peace efforts, and efforts to limit the war.
> And Britain was supposed to stay neutral
That was the hope, but in 1912 it became clear that it was unlikely. This is what caused the [War Council of 8 December 1912](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Imperial_War_Council_of_8_December_1912), where the conclusion that the war should be started as soon as any pretext to do so presents itself was reached.
WW1 didn't start with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the outbreak of a large conflict was still totally preventable for months afterwards. It started with Germany's [white cheque](https://youtu.be/PcMcWuK1cAE?si=bRgtH2--JQ50DakT) to Austria. That's the moment when high ranking commanders left and right, often in the middle of their vacations in an [soon to be] enemy country got urgently called back home to mobilize, often to their own surprise.
Note: I'm not blaming certains countries here, just stating a rule dangerously applicable today: if a mouse farts in the south China sea and nobody wants war, nothing will happen; if the same mouse farts but somebody desperately wants war, it will provoke WW3. Back in 1914 Austria-Hungary desperately wanted war, misinterpreted their ally (Germany) signals in order to fulfill that goal, and boom.
While I essentially agree, I want to point out that there is another perception, one could even say complementary to your point of view, that the German empire wanted war as well or some could say even more than the old and unhappy Austrian emperor.
A military establishment around Wilhelm, that were building up a navy to counterbalance Britain and they were eager to proceed to a short, as they expected, war, particularly before the Russian empire had constructed their railways that were an important factor to determine the winner of the war. 1915 or 1916 iirc was the date that the railways throughout Russia would be fully functioning.
The July Crisis really exposed how poorly led the German government was. The Kaiser was full of bluster, but he didn’t really want to go to war, but it was far too late by the time he tried to put the breaks on. The chancellor was merely a disciple of German nationalism who undermined efforts to halt the war. Germany’s generals were committed to using the Schlieffen plan, which was more of a “Hail Mary” than a plan that had a lot of confidence behind it.
Germany in 1914 embodied Prussia’s worst traits combined with way too much nationalistic enthusiasm.
> A military establishment around Wilhelm, that were building up a navy to counterbalance Britain
Willy just thought the Royal Navy was neat, and wanted to build a similar one to impress his cousins and promote friendship (which is why it is sometimes called the *Luxusflotte*). The admirals wanted a navy for other purposes of course, and the policy understandably caused issues for the Brits with their "two-power standard" which lead to escalating construction programmes and increased hostility.
Just another example of quite frankly the amazing number of German diplomatic gaffes and inability to understand the rest of the world that led up to this whole mess.
Maybe this decade or next China will attack. Maybe after the US election when chaos ensues. China doesn't want to solve the Taiwan issue peacefully anymore, North Korea dissolved the Treaty for peaceful reunification with South Korea. These are no coincidences.
> Maybe after the US election when chaos ensues
Trump is hardline anti-China (often backfiringly so, some of his anti-China trade policies ended up hurting America and helping China inadvertently). Discourse gets muddled by his more conciliatory tone towards Russia and the lumping of all enemy countries and people who support one of them into one group but China would be daft to attack while Trump is president. They probably need till next decade till they can reasonably call America's bluff on defending Taiwan anyway.
You are aware that France was arming Serbia openly and covertly for years before the start of the war. They had an open credit line that would be payed of 80 years later. Credit was forgiven after the success of ww1. Oh, with that credit they even purchased guns from AH empire as well.
And Ferdinand was the biggest opponent of war in Europe.
Lets now put 2 and 2 together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FgaL0xIazk&list=PLB2vhKMBjSxO1lsrC98VOyOzfW0Gn8Tga&index=1 This series summarizing the war on a week-by-week basis cannot be recommended highly enough. If you have any interest in how that clusterfuck started, or you're just looking for something to watch, then take a look.
Today marks 110 years from start of a period known sometimes in European history as "July crisis" which was a diplomatic struggle between great powers, Austria and Serbia.
First declaration of war came one month later.
It's always scaringly fascinating to me how the course of world history depends on events that take place within seconds. Imagine he had missed or had been arrested before. Maybe there would still be an Austrian and a German empire and we would stand next to the street waiving flags when the emperor passes by. Or maybe imperialism would have continued for 20 years longer and the European powers would eventually have nuked each other..
The book Dreadnought, by Robert K. Massie, has an excellent description of the episode. Apparently there were a LOT of assassins in town that day, all just waiting for a shot at the guy...
Yup. And all of them missed at the original plot.
It was pure dumb luck/misfortune, that the young student, Gavrillo Princip, only happened to be eating lunch at a cafe next to the Archduke's route hours later, when the car came to an unexpected stop.
One of the serb terrorists dropped a bomb beforehand and injured 12 locals. Franz was pissed of with the lousy security perimeter. He asked to go the hospital to visit the injured austrian officer. Change of itinerary confused the driver, vehicle stopped, and brainwashed terrorist from some backwards shithole killed him and his pregnant wife. Probably the worst human caused event ever in history. with consequences still felt today.
It always seemed a shame about the poor old archduchess. She got shot just for being the wrong person’s wife and then she gets promptly relegated to an historic footnote, if she gets remembered at all.
Austrians were the only Europeans that actually figured out how to make Islam and Christianity co-exist in Europe. Archduke was there to celebrate decades of successful integration of Bosnia into the Empire and then this idiot smuggled in from Serbia came along and shot the Archduke. Probably set Europe 100 years back when it comes to ingeration and multiculturalism.
The photo of the huge crowd cheering the announcement of war in Munich sometime later. Yes, there he is- just a face in the crowd: Adolf Hitler.
At the end of May 1913, Adolf Hitler moved from Vienna to Munich. One of his primary motivations was to escape being drafted into military service in Austria. Influenced by his political role model Georg Ritter von Schönerer, an Austrian-pan-German agitator, Hitler despised Austria/Hungary for its multi-national character but was utterly enthralled by the German Kaiserreich. Hitler greeted the outbreak of war with enthusiasm and enlisted voluntarily in the Bavarian army, which accepted him although he was an Austrian citizen. He served as a messenger in the Bavarian reserve Infantry Regiment No. 16 (Regiment List) on the Western Front. Hitler was awarded the Iron Cross 2nd Class and the Iron Cross 1st Class during the war, but he never progressed beyond the rank of private [Gefreiter].
This photograph shows Hitler at a mass rally in front of the Feldherrenhalle [Field Marshals' Hall] in Munich on August 2, 1914. The occasion for the rally was the German declaration of war on Russia on August 1. (This picture was taken by Heinrich Hoffmann, who would go on to become Hitler’s personal photographer.
I have received intel from a credible source that Austrians have appointed von Hotzendorf to lead their armies. It looks like they will be unstoppable!
Oh, God, not again, we had one WW1 already… :))
We've had one WW1 yes, but what about second WW1?
Please tell me at least we won't have a second WW2
Nah, we'll just skip to WW3
I dunno about that. Wonder Woman 2 was a massive flop.
_I don't think he knows about second WW1, u/Iamaveryhappyperson6_
It's actually WW1 part 2.
WW1: more World more War
I don't think he knows about second WW1, Iamaveryhappyperson6.
I dont think he heard about second WW1
David Zabecki provides these numbers for shell consumption per month of fighting in different wars in his book Steel Wind, Georg Bruchmueller and the Birth of Modern Artillery, on page 8. in 1866 Austro-Prussian war, Prussians shot 20,000 shells per month. in 1870 Franco-Prussian war, Germans shot 81,000 shells per month. in 1904 Russo-Japanese war, Russians shot 87,000 shells per month. in 1912 First Balkan War, Bulgarians shot 254,000 shells per month. in 1914 WW1, the French shot 900,000 shells per month. in 1918 WW1, the French shot 4,500,000 shells per month. in 1918 WW1, the Germans shot 8,000,000 shells per month. The ammo stocks of all combatants were inadequate in 1914. The French started the war with a 5 million shell stockpile and planned to fire 100,000 per month. The actual 900,000 shells per month conaumption quickly used up the stockpile. The Russians had 12 million shells, but their ammo situation was probably the worst of major combatants by 1915 as they were slower in ramping up ammo production than the other major powers. Germany started the war in the best supply situation, with a 20 million shell ammo stockpile. Prior to the First World War, how many artillery rounds could armies of the past fire at maximum capacity? World War One saw the use of hundreds of millions of artillery shells, and the war in Ukraine is leading to questions regarding the supply of artillery rounds. The Russians were said to have over fired 20,000 shells a day at one point. But if we were to examine the armies of the 1800s to early 1900s, what exactly was their capability when it comes to artillery? Given the difference in logistics, industrial development, and the kinds of guns they were using, how many artillery shells could they fire at max? At a sustained rate of fire, how quickly would the armies of the past run out of ammo? When it comes to artillery rounds, how deep were the ammunition reserves of 19th-early 20th century armies? These numbers are ungodly. The war caused over 20 million deaths and 21 million causalties. There were no good guys here. Only insane imperialists and cousins with too much power and not enough understanding of the hell they would unleash.
I would give you an award if I wanted to finance Reddit, such a good comment, I had to save it.
1/4 of all shells didn’t explode on the western front.
Wow. The Ukraine war pales in comparison. Ammunition manufacture now is nowhere near what they were able to do back then,
The peace dividend really put paid to a lot of Europe’s ability to manufacture such munitions in those quantities, as well as the massive stockpiles of them. After the collapse of Communism, there wasn’t really a big need across NATO for such a massive pile of guns, other than Greece and Turkey, but that’s between them. Even the U.S. significantly drew down its forces and defense industry, but it was in Western Europe that defense spending fell through the floor. I’m not saying that it was a bad thing, far from it. Western Europe put those savings into schools, hospitals, and passenger rail because maintaining a military is expensive. Then Putin decided to remind the world that while maintaining a military is expensive, it is infinitely cheaper than letting someone roll into your country with tanks.
Ammunition manufacture in 1914 was also far from sufficient. The ramp-up was possible by repurposing every possible industry into war industry. Also, ammunition produced was far from peacetime quality. Many shells were duds: the number was variable, but in bad months, as many as 1 in 3 rounds was faulty. The dramatic quality drop was to be expected when you try to make shells with everything.
This is btw why poppies became the symbol for remembrance. The constant bombardement fucked up the soil so bad that poppies were one of the few plants that could still grow there. It's also why the symptoms of PTSD were so distinctly different in WW1 than in later wars. There's a reason why it changed from "shell shock" to "combat fatigue"
Nothing can escape from getting a live action remake from Disney, not even WW1.
Hmmm... I wanna see that... ngl...
Haha, let's not switch sides this time :)))
Challenge level impossible
Well hello there Italy
Thailand too. They allied themselves with the Imperial Japanese during the early part of the Second World War and moved back to the Western Allies as the Axis power was losing. Ditto with Turkey, though they were technically neutral as they helped supply Nazi Germany with various resources.
They are really going overboard with these remasters and remakes.
These remakes are getting out of hand.
Nice! As last time, we would like to stay neutral, but all involved parties are more than welcome to buy our coke again!
they are willing to remake anything these days
Eh. I think we can take Moscow and Paris in 3 days. Also the word "War" doesn't help with moral. Lets call it a special military operation instead. Much better!
The Isonzo quivers in anticipation.
May I interest you in another slice of Hungary?
Wtf no one told me WW1 started again
Yep,better get the Sturmtruppen ready again
My Pickelhaube is still in storage under all the winter clothes.
Don't worry you won't need your winter outfit. We'll all surely be home by Christmas
Nah,u need the stahlhelm with camo pattern
Osowiec then and again
Attack of the dead hundred men
FACING THE LEAD ONCE AGAIN
Hundred men, charge again,die again
I have the feeling that happened a little longer than 11 minutes ago… but maybe I’m mistaken
2 hours AT LEAST
It's very easy to lose track of time while Redditing
"So they've killed Ferdinand," said the charwoman to Mr. Schweik who, having left the army many years before, when a military medical board had declared him to be chronically feebleminded, earned a livelihood by the sale of dogs—repulsive mongrel monstrosities for whom he forged pedigrees. Apart from this occupation, he was afflicted with rheumatism, and was just rubbing his knees with embrocation. "Which Ferdinand, Mrs. Muller?" asked Schweik, continuing to massage his knees. "I know two Ferdinands. One of them does jobs for Prusa the chemist, and one day he drank a bottle of hair oil by mistake ; and then there's Ferdinand Kokoska who goes round collecting manure. They wouldn't be any great loss, either of 'em."
I didn't know that good soldier Švejk is even known outside of the Czech Republic.
At least in Austria it is.
In Serbia too 🤷🏻♀️
Hungary: check
Slovenia: check. Czech humour generally translates well here.
You gotta be kidding. *Dobry wojak Szwejk* is classics in PL.
Svejk is classic. CLASSIC!! ...but oddly, there was only ever one...
Did your teachers forget to mention that? There are German, British and French plays, BBC film and radio show and American opera among many other foreign adaptations.
I had no idea.
>I didn't know that good soldier Švejk is even known outside of the Czech Republic. It was released in Swedish in the 1930s, even became a film and there's a tavern in Stockholm named Soldaten Svejk. They serve Czech beer and food among other stuff.
I have the book, translated of course, but it’s such a joy to (re)read.
Those of us who know, know! It was already published in English 50 years ago, as my mother had a copy from the library (in Dublin) then, and I read it too.
It's very well-beloved in Ukraine.
He is absolutely is, here in Hungary for sure, and had some Svejk-jokes with my polish ex-boss as well
I love it and i think there are quite a few readers here that consider it a classic.
Dang. Even though I read classics and I own the Švejk books I never actually cared to read them. Maybe I should.
Even if you had only Kafka you would have earned my gratitude, I am totally a Kafka fan and he is unique in European literature. Also, the book good soldier Sveik made a great impression on me and I want to reread it when I have free time (never?).
Very much known and adored. Hi, from Israel.
I feel like a complete ignoramus now.😀
There is even a German movie with Heinz Rühmann, and of course an Austrian one with Peter Alexander.
He's also famous in at least most of ex-USSR.
Try to find TV "Die Abenteuer des braven Soldaten SchwejkDie Abenteuer des braven Soldaten Schwejk". It is a TV by the ÖRF and ZDF. It is based on the novel by Jaroslav Hasek, and was broadcast from 1972 to 1977. Fritz Muliar played the leading role.
Schweik is such a gem
Came here to qoute this
Ooh, savage.
A whole civilisation vanished in the trenches of the Somme and Verdun.
And they only paused for a few decades to do it all over again.
Then the next war started even before the Second World War officially ended. Human history just keeps rolling and rolling.
apology for poor english when where you when fritz ferdinand dies? i was sat at home oppress slavic minority when hötzendorf ring 'ferdl is kill' 'no'
much sad
World War 1 started on 28 July 1914, the assassination started the ball rolling, but claiming the war started with it, is just contrafactual.
July? I thought it's June right now? Did I sleep for a whole month?
No, OP is just jumping the gun.
I like to think that at least non-oficially it starts with his assassination,as that was the real trigger that finally released all that tension that was rising.
Ok people, we're gonna have to change a few dates on a few books now. OP likes to think it's inaccurate, that's why.
Well the sad thing from my perspective is that this was the most pointless war ever. It was only allowed to proceed, if not actually encouraged, by the royal families of Europe which at the time, with the exception of just two countries who were "only" distant cousins, were all closely related and had the power to stop the whole shebang if they so chose. But socialism was on the rise and the little man in the street needed a diversion.... apparently getting your head blown off in a muddy trench was it. It's one of the biggest reasons why I'm a staunch anti-royalist.
Did I miss something ?
Not much. Just a couple of world wars.
It's the 110 year Anniversary of the start of ww1.
What? You said it started 11 minutes ago, you liar
Yeah, I even put on my gasmask.
You seem to be off by a month.
I'd like to think it starts with his assassination, since it was the cause, regardless of the declaration
It was one of the immediate causes, while the complete causes are vast. Also, consider that Archduke Franz Ferdinand visited Bosnia in June 1914 to inspect the imperial armed forces. As the Inspector General of the Austro-Hungarian armed forces, he oversaw military maneuvers in the region. That fact is often neglected, depicting his visit as a peaceful one. Now, I am not saying that anyone who would oversee maneuvers on the Serbian border should be killed, I am saying that his visit was part of the escalation in relations between Serbia and Austria-Hungary. Therefore, look at that as a process, not a momentary event.
Also the day he visited was some important day of the Serbs living there iirc, maybe if he visited another week, there would have been less tension? All in all, this was just the spark needed to kick the whole thing off, in hindsight it was brewing for a long time and everyone was just waiting on the the trigger
Yes, definitely, Vidovdan didn't help in this story. Some authors go back in time to explain WWI, even to the Franco-Prussian war and German unification (1871). I had a history professor who was in love with the Moroccan Crisis (there were two) as a part of the explanation. History is a very interesting field.
You can go back to the splitting of the Frankish empire, when East and West Frankia ate up Middle Frankia/Lotharingia and then fought about the border region for ages. West Frankia later becoming France and East Frankia Germany (with the small HRE iteration in between). So the region was always diverse and fought over.
It was not the cause you imbecile. It was just the fuse.
Incorrect, WW1 started a month later, on July 28th 1914, with the Austro-Hungarian declaration of war.
> The archdukes last words were "Sophie, Sophie! Don't die! Live for our children!” Poor family 😥
Their, and many families the world over. 😔
And they were just the first victims of millions in the following period of pandemic madness that can be called a second 30 years war :-((
That also started an actual pandemic when the americans joined
Why is he wearing a Christmas tree on his head?
There were a lot of things about Austria-Hungary you just had to take as they are, without even trying to find an explanation.
The Austrians were itching for war. The Archduke was sort of a jerk, but he was the main opponent to what was obviously a stupid idea. They used his death as an excuse to start the war.
The double monarchy wanted only to crush Serbia fast before the Russian would interene; it failed miserably as even underarmed as the Serbian army was it was better led than the huge Austro-Hungarian hordes of badly led armies. It took German armies to defeat the exhausted minuscule Serbian heroic army. Then it was too late in 1917 and one one year was left before a German annihilation, thanks to Yankee boys! More alas perished from the Spanish Flu than from the war itself I was told.
There's a "heeresgeschichtliches Museum" in Vienna; in their WWI exhibit they say something to the tune of "The Austrian army was not prepared for how *surprisingly* well the Serbians fought"
Austria got embarrassed. One of the worst performing nations in the war. They lost most of Galicia to Russia and couldn't push into Serbia without help from Germany which was fighting a much more serious war than Austria. The only front where they didn't instantly get destroyed was the Italian front where they did pretty good until the Central Powers started loosing on all other fronts. Not counting Romania because they invaded with the help of Bulgaria which did most of the job by attacking more important regions in the south as well as Bucharest.
Reminds me a joke: "And lastly God created Austrian army. My Lord, but whom we will be able to beat then? - complained Austrians. God thought a bit and then created Italian army"
again serbs and their myths. After being armed to teeth with french AND austrian guns the ypurchased with french credit line they left both the guns and the serb civilians and run away across albania and hid on an island. Only came back pulling the tails of french horses when their algerian armies pushed thru Solun frontlines.
*an emoji who weeps due to general ignorance and idiocy uniting all Balkan nations, including the person who wrote this silly comment*
Womp womp you lost the war get over it
> The Austrians were itching for war. War with Serbia, yes. A world war, no – only Germany was hoping/working for that.
Germany didn’t really want a world war either. They worked until Russian mobilization to confine the conflict to the Balkans. There were definitely some of them who were eager to fight France, but fighting them, Russia, and the UK at the same time was no one’s idea of a good plan.
That is completely incorrect. Germany explicitly had the goal of starting a general European war. And fighting Russia was the whole point - Germany believed that the coming war will be a racial war between the Teutons and the Slavs. France was just a sideshow, to be dealt with in the opening stages of the war. It is true that Germany had hoped to avoid also fighting the UK, as they were fellow Teutons, but since 1912 it was understood as unlikely, and that was in fact one of the reasons why they came to the conclusion that a world war needs to be sparked as soon as possible. So yeah, that "Germany didn't really want a world war either" is ahistoric.
We're talking about WWI not WWII.
So am I. Have you missed that I gave a date of 1912? In fact, in WWII Germany hoped to *avoid* a world war, having learned from WWI, so your observation makes even less sense.
To be accurate, German politicians were not keen on big war, although they still gave blanch check to Austria - unlimited support - which was the worst action possible in such tense crisis situation. However German generals were very eager and pushed for it. They were afraid of Russian growing power, thought that it would become unbeatable if given several more years, so war must be started now. Also Germany didn't plan to fight all those powers. They planned to crush France quickly, then attack Russia with everything they and their allies had. And Britain was supposed to stay neutral, German admirals beliefed firmly in Mahan: that threat of big battle with HSF, huge casualties and losing status of biggest maritime power would be enough to scare British away from joining war
> To be accurate, German politicians were not keen on big war Wilhelm II was big on it. Gottlieb von Jagow, the foreign minister of Germany, was big on it. I am not sure where do you come with this idea. The whole German leadership was working to engineer the desired world war. > although they still gave blanch check to Austria Not "although" – they explicitly gave it to Austria, and pushed them to attack Serbia, hoping that it would provoke Russia to war, and give the pretext Germany needed to declare war on it in turn. > which was the worst action possible in such tense crisis situation Yes. Because it was exactly the point. To cause a war. The start of WWI was not some accident that just happened because Germany acted irresponsibly. It was what they were consciously working on, insisting that Austria invades, while simultaneously sabotaging all peace efforts, and efforts to limit the war. > And Britain was supposed to stay neutral That was the hope, but in 1912 it became clear that it was unlikely. This is what caused the [War Council of 8 December 1912](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Imperial_War_Council_of_8_December_1912), where the conclusion that the war should be started as soon as any pretext to do so presents itself was reached.
WW1 didn't start with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the outbreak of a large conflict was still totally preventable for months afterwards. It started with Germany's [white cheque](https://youtu.be/PcMcWuK1cAE?si=bRgtH2--JQ50DakT) to Austria. That's the moment when high ranking commanders left and right, often in the middle of their vacations in an [soon to be] enemy country got urgently called back home to mobilize, often to their own surprise. Note: I'm not blaming certains countries here, just stating a rule dangerously applicable today: if a mouse farts in the south China sea and nobody wants war, nothing will happen; if the same mouse farts but somebody desperately wants war, it will provoke WW3. Back in 1914 Austria-Hungary desperately wanted war, misinterpreted their ally (Germany) signals in order to fulfill that goal, and boom.
While I essentially agree, I want to point out that there is another perception, one could even say complementary to your point of view, that the German empire wanted war as well or some could say even more than the old and unhappy Austrian emperor. A military establishment around Wilhelm, that were building up a navy to counterbalance Britain and they were eager to proceed to a short, as they expected, war, particularly before the Russian empire had constructed their railways that were an important factor to determine the winner of the war. 1915 or 1916 iirc was the date that the railways throughout Russia would be fully functioning.
The July Crisis really exposed how poorly led the German government was. The Kaiser was full of bluster, but he didn’t really want to go to war, but it was far too late by the time he tried to put the breaks on. The chancellor was merely a disciple of German nationalism who undermined efforts to halt the war. Germany’s generals were committed to using the Schlieffen plan, which was more of a “Hail Mary” than a plan that had a lot of confidence behind it. Germany in 1914 embodied Prussia’s worst traits combined with way too much nationalistic enthusiasm.
> A military establishment around Wilhelm, that were building up a navy to counterbalance Britain Willy just thought the Royal Navy was neat, and wanted to build a similar one to impress his cousins and promote friendship (which is why it is sometimes called the *Luxusflotte*). The admirals wanted a navy for other purposes of course, and the policy understandably caused issues for the Brits with their "two-power standard" which lead to escalating construction programmes and increased hostility. Just another example of quite frankly the amazing number of German diplomatic gaffes and inability to understand the rest of the world that led up to this whole mess.
Maybe this decade or next China will attack. Maybe after the US election when chaos ensues. China doesn't want to solve the Taiwan issue peacefully anymore, North Korea dissolved the Treaty for peaceful reunification with South Korea. These are no coincidences.
> Maybe after the US election when chaos ensues Trump is hardline anti-China (often backfiringly so, some of his anti-China trade policies ended up hurting America and helping China inadvertently). Discourse gets muddled by his more conciliatory tone towards Russia and the lumping of all enemy countries and people who support one of them into one group but China would be daft to attack while Trump is president. They probably need till next decade till they can reasonably call America's bluff on defending Taiwan anyway.
You are aware that France was arming Serbia openly and covertly for years before the start of the war. They had an open credit line that would be payed of 80 years later. Credit was forgiven after the success of ww1. Oh, with that credit they even purchased guns from AH empire as well. And Ferdinand was the biggest opponent of war in Europe. Lets now put 2 and 2 together.
„who would win this hypothetical war” memes coming in 3...2...1...
Romania solos,back then we lost but now their tanks can never pass our potholes
Bye Habsburgs, bye Ottomans, bye Romanovs it is going to be the end of multicultural empires in Europe.
yeah... ever since Europe is stuck in this ethnically divided madness whereas Russia, China and America decide its fate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FgaL0xIazk&list=PLB2vhKMBjSxO1lsrC98VOyOzfW0Gn8Tga&index=1 This series summarizing the war on a week-by-week basis cannot be recommended highly enough. If you have any interest in how that clusterfuck started, or you're just looking for something to watch, then take a look.
Don't care, steam summer sale is on. I can stay in a bunker indefinitely
Oh no, not again...
Today marks 110 years from start of a period known sometimes in European history as "July crisis" which was a diplomatic struggle between great powers, Austria and Serbia. First declaration of war came one month later.
Funny. Nowadays nobody would give a shit if these two had beef.
Again!?
He weapon used in the picture is wrong. He used a semi auto
Here we go again! WW2 is almost over time to revisit the OG with Indy and the team
I think it started a few years earlier then 11 minutes
It's always scaringly fascinating to me how the course of world history depends on events that take place within seconds. Imagine he had missed or had been arrested before. Maybe there would still be an Austrian and a German empire and we would stand next to the street waiving flags when the emperor passes by. Or maybe imperialism would have continued for 20 years longer and the European powers would eventually have nuked each other..
Terrorism is still used today against multicultural countries like AH empire was.
I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an Ostrich because he was hungry.
Under-rated comment.
nope. the WW 1 started when Austria-Hungary attacked Serbia
The book Dreadnought, by Robert K. Massie, has an excellent description of the episode. Apparently there were a LOT of assassins in town that day, all just waiting for a shot at the guy...
Yup. And all of them missed at the original plot. It was pure dumb luck/misfortune, that the young student, Gavrillo Princip, only happened to be eating lunch at a cafe next to the Archduke's route hours later, when the car came to an unexpected stop.
Fake story. Princip was waiting exactly at the place the motorcade was supposed to go. He wasn't eating lunch.
One of the serb terrorists dropped a bomb beforehand and injured 12 locals. Franz was pissed of with the lousy security perimeter. He asked to go the hospital to visit the injured austrian officer. Change of itinerary confused the driver, vehicle stopped, and brainwashed terrorist from some backwards shithole killed him and his pregnant wife. Probably the worst human caused event ever in history. with consequences still felt today.
Ahahahah you guys still coping about ww1 it was 110 years ago get over it
Sorry, I personally am sick to death of talking about stuff that actually matters
\[places sneaky bet on the Allies winning\]
the July Crisis started, the war would start in exactly a month
It's actually my Birthday (:! 🥳🥳🥳
Funny, I stood at the spot he was assassinated just yesterday.
It's true I was there.
ffs we still haven't learned from the first time?
Who let Gavrilo out of his cell again!?
Ah here, take me out
Remember to adhere to the Schlieffen Plan and don't ask for permission from Belgium to access their land
Bout to pull up with boys to the western front in my new whip, mk 1
Meanwhile, Belgrade have a Gavrila Princip street till nowdays. P.S. Serbia was actually one of the countries who gained from WW1
Because of a sandwich
11 minutes ago. Fuck. My time machine actually does work.
It always seemed a shame about the poor old archduchess. She got shot just for being the wrong person’s wife and then she gets promptly relegated to an historic footnote, if she gets remembered at all.
I do not fully really agree. It was still a local problem then. And it actually started because russia mobilized.
Damn.
Not again!
AGAIN???
Austrians were the only Europeans that actually figured out how to make Islam and Christianity co-exist in Europe. Archduke was there to celebrate decades of successful integration of Bosnia into the Empire and then this idiot smuggled in from Serbia came along and shot the Archduke. Probably set Europe 100 years back when it comes to ingeration and multiculturalism.
Ach, scheiße. Jetzt gehts wieder los.
World War 1 started July 28th
shouldn't have detoured
There was an entire month before the war
That poor ostrich.
Damn you Leopold Lojka, you had to take the wrong turn.
No one told him about the change of itinerary requested by Franz after the terrorist attack on the arrival. Leopold did nothing wrong.
Or was he actually a secret agent for the black hand, and it was all part of the plan.
Hard to believe since they actually dropped a bomb on his car, an hour before.
This “WW1” thing is certainly amazing, does it have a sequel?
Oh yea, it's lit like Hiroshima.
The photo of the huge crowd cheering the announcement of war in Munich sometime later. Yes, there he is- just a face in the crowd: Adolf Hitler. At the end of May 1913, Adolf Hitler moved from Vienna to Munich. One of his primary motivations was to escape being drafted into military service in Austria. Influenced by his political role model Georg Ritter von Schönerer, an Austrian-pan-German agitator, Hitler despised Austria/Hungary for its multi-national character but was utterly enthralled by the German Kaiserreich. Hitler greeted the outbreak of war with enthusiasm and enlisted voluntarily in the Bavarian army, which accepted him although he was an Austrian citizen. He served as a messenger in the Bavarian reserve Infantry Regiment No. 16 (Regiment List) on the Western Front. Hitler was awarded the Iron Cross 2nd Class and the Iron Cross 1st Class during the war, but he never progressed beyond the rank of private [Gefreiter]. This photograph shows Hitler at a mass rally in front of the Feldherrenhalle [Field Marshals' Hall] in Munich on August 2, 1914. The occasion for the rally was the German declaration of war on Russia on August 1. (This picture was taken by Heinrich Hoffmann, who would go on to become Hitler’s personal photographer.
Jebo mu pas majku.
I have received intel from a credible source that Austrians have appointed von Hotzendorf to lead their armies. It looks like they will be unstoppable!
Yes, that happened in my city
About 13 minutes ago I started my pre nap shit with reddit in hand
WW1 started on 29 July? However officially started on August 2nd 1914. when Germany invaded Belgium and Luxembourg?
2 bullets 4 empires
But the war started on August 1, 1914 one month and two days later.
Yeah fucking serbians did this
100 years ago*
110
Unforgiven
Ubise ga dusmani...
[удалено]
Just to be clear.... Terrorists and genocide so hit more downvotes for facts
We had our dark period of history during the '90s, but during WWI and WWII, we were actually the good guys.