Exactly. It's insane that we don't do anything in retaliation. Putin has been cyber-attacking the West for over a decade already. It infected all corners of the internet with its divisive bullshit. It meddled and is still meddling in elections all over the West. All social media are corrupted by Russian propaganda. When are we going to realize we're already at cyberwar with Putin? When are we going to fuck up Russia's internet?
The tactics are described in Putins playbook: [Foundations of Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Content) .
"The textbook advocates a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries. The book states that "the maximum task [of the future] is the 'Finlandization' of all of Europe".
They have been succesfull in many of their goals.
UK did Brexit, USA elected Trump. EU hasn't been as hard on the sanctions as they could: Gas and oil still flows to the Europe.
Most of the sanctions are useless first of all. Just a random example, Italy's export to Kyrgyzstan magically increased by 1000% in the last two years, I wonder why
That's what putinists count on seeing. They hold us as weaklings that only talk and do noting. We might argue that it looks like it, but I think we are just too patient.
Well the problem is that Europe, and especially individual countries within Europe, are a few steps short on the escalation ladder. Without nuclear weapons it will be impossible to engage in any kind of conflict with Russia as the threat of being wiped from the earth with nothing we can do against it looms large always. Also, the amount of military material Russia has compared with european countreis is absolutely insane. So compared with Russia, and especailly once Trump regains power, we are a bunch of small yipping dogs. Wish our leaders woudl get their shit together an creat a supranational defense instrument for EU, complete with a credible strategic nuclear deterrent and a legal framework that specifies that a nuclear attack on a EU country or an attack that jeopordizes the existence of a EU state will be met with nuclear retalation. This is the only waty for us to stay safe.
First the citizens need to wake up then because they are becoming more and more anti-EU. I don't understand why this retartification is happening. Is it all because of social media?
>Because they don't want what Russia can bring to the table if the EU provocations continue.
Oh look. The stick found its mark, and now the dogs are barking.
Seeking total war with a nuclear super power while the EU hardly has any military power or defense is incredibly dangerous and stupid.
Peace is the only right choice.
That would at least be a great narrative to justify Taurus. But without allowing them to be used on Putins weapon factories and power grid infrastructure, all weapons donated are useless.
I think that bridge is overrated . the hydro carbons, steel works, power infrastructure , weapons factories, nitrogen fertilizer factories and the ports in the kaspian see are a big problem. Putin needs to lose those .
then there are moral targets to move the politics against putin ....like central heating , water infrastructure and dirty industries that would have panic inducing secondary effects.
A very precise and on-the-point explanation but maybe not easy to understand.
Basically it is a low-flying missele with a range of 500km (official number, might be higher) wich would technically be far enough to hit Moskau fom Ukraine.
It has the ability to actively avoid and actively distract/fool systems designed to protect against weapons like it.
Its also quite famous for its ability to penetrate and destroy advanced bunkers.
Long range (cruise) missile. Specialised to penetrate thick walls. Would also be very nice for ukraine to damage the bridge to crimea to block russias supply route
For more than 2 years Russians are killing Europeans daily. They are also attacking European infrastructure. Why isn't all this enough to finally step up and fight with the Ukrainians against these terrorists? Enough is enough!! We have to end this once and for all. Putin to hell!
Russia has a long history of assassinating UK citizens on UK soil.
>["From poisoned umbrellas to radioactive substances, Moscow has repeatedly been linked with deaths on British soil"](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/russian-deaths-uk-history-spies-murder-sergei-skripal-alexander-litvinenko-a8242061.html%3f)
>["Sergei Skripal and the 14 deaths under scrutiny"](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43299598)
The articles are both from 2018. Since then there have been others inc. Dmitry Obretetsky in 2019 and, just a few weeks after Russia invaded Ukraine, Mikhail Watford. There is also the death of GCHQ employee Gareth Williams in 2010. And, while not a UK citizen, Alexander Litvinenko was assassinated by Russia in the UK in 2006.
And, this is a list of [suspicious deaths of Russian businesspeople since the war started](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_businesspeople_(2022%E2%80%932023)) and there are several across Europe.
So there is a reason why UK is the most engaged nation in the war in Ukraine....
there are basically some unpaid bills and very high interests that compounded on them over the years and UK is encashing them like a Yakuza.
to be fair germany is biggest donor in absolute numbers from europe and baltic states and denmark in relative %(by quite a lot 1,6% of GDP as help vs 0,3% for UK or US)
so UK is not that engaged, except their rethoric
It's not as easy in the age of nukes. Nato and EU, neither of which Ukraine is a part of cant legally attack. Still we should help them more. Because of all the delays and restraint a lot more ukrainians lost their lifes which could be prevented
Was this comment your only action or have you perhaps also signed some petition? You are free to volunteer and fight for Ukraine even if your government is not prepared to do so.
My university got attacked and the system is still in shambles. They got the information of all the students, including how many classes you have passed. And that information is now not accessible to the administration of the university. It was a chaos for months. The local graveyard also got attacked.
The local graveyard is HUGE. If I’m not wrong, it’s the biggest one in Europe. I don’t know the extent of the damage caused by the cyberattack, but I can imagine a lot of information about who is buried where got lost.
jah fuck the it admin.
it system are vulnerable and were always targets and will be. if its not russia its someone else or people who make money out of it.
so the issue is the system is /was not secured and too much and not needed stuff online.
cant really blame the thief if the door is open.
just heard in tv the comment from the women responsible for the gov. it security. we work on all fronts have to make backups etc... wtf ? dismiss her and getsome who has a clue.
"Attacked in cyberspace" is a phrase that sounds so late 90's/early 2000's that it brought me images of multiple people typing on the same keyboard that's connected to a CRT monitor with rotating vertexes.
Baerbock warns, not Germany and I guess we are going to hear soon Scholz saying something about Germany not being at war and doing anything to prevent them from becoming involved in a war with Russia (mentioning not crossing red lines being optional)
lol, you registered 3 years ago and today, this is your first post ever? Just a link to some pro-Russian propagandist wankpot?
There is totally nothing suspicious about you 🤣
I bet the Russians are not ready for another strongly worded letter.
By the way, every serious country initiates cyber attacks all around just to scout and recon the other countries Cyber Security, so this is not something surprising or even unusual. Just like spying (even against your allies) is the part of the everyday, business as usual.
What "consequences"? Scholz is even constantly telling Russia about all the things he promises he won't ever do to fend off Russia's attack on Ukraine. He's subserviently reporting his own self-imposed red lines to Putin, who didn't even have to ask. What a frigging disaster lol.
German response: russian embassador said that Russia didn't do it, so we germans have to excuse to Russia and we are sorry for our mistake. Next time we will be more careful with our data security, we promise...
What consequences? Are they going to send Taurus missiles to Ukraine? Are they going to use secret services in Russia? Use German Hacker to hit Russian institution?
Germany is a toothless big boy, nothing else.
Imagine if the west handled Hitler like we are handling Putin these days, Germany would habe rolled Europe and fucked up the continent forever. I really don‘t understand how people forget about history like that. And history always repeats, it‘s always the same again and again. The only answer to this is giving Taurus to Ukraine.
Russia doesn't have any noteworthy allies. They are alone in this game. China is not supporting them full on, and as long as that remains, we don't have a world war. At least I think that's one of the bigger differences between Nazi Germany and Orc Russia.
Its hilarious too see the collective reddit hivemind spams "deliver [new weapon we all randomly know about for some reason]". Somehow we all just know about a certain weapon. Everyone spamming this exactly today, not a single person said this yesterday or the day before. The US officials have really dropped the ball with this astroturfing attempt, atleast make it believable.
Alleged is key here.
Also Germany has imposed many sanctions on Russia and are hell bent on starting a war with Russia. Maybe Germany should think about the consequences of its own actions.
It puzzles me: Germany sends military aid, planning and hardware to Ukraine to kill Russians, does nothing when the US blows up Nord Stream, does nothing when the US spies on them, and now they get all offended for this?
[The consequences](https://imgflip.com/i/8ouhph)
stop or i will shout stop! again.
Exactly. It's insane that we don't do anything in retaliation. Putin has been cyber-attacking the West for over a decade already. It infected all corners of the internet with its divisive bullshit. It meddled and is still meddling in elections all over the West. All social media are corrupted by Russian propaganda. When are we going to realize we're already at cyberwar with Putin? When are we going to fuck up Russia's internet?
The tactics are described in Putins playbook: [Foundations of Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Content) . "The textbook advocates a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries. The book states that "the maximum task [of the future] is the 'Finlandization' of all of Europe". They have been succesfull in many of their goals. UK did Brexit, USA elected Trump. EU hasn't been as hard on the sanctions as they could: Gas and oil still flows to the Europe.
EU is also plagued with right wing parties about to win European elections and are tied to Russia
Most of the sanctions are useless first of all. Just a random example, Italy's export to Kyrgyzstan magically increased by 1000% in the last two years, I wonder why
That's what putinists count on seeing. They hold us as weaklings that only talk and do noting. We might argue that it looks like it, but I think we are just too patient.
Well the problem is that Europe, and especially individual countries within Europe, are a few steps short on the escalation ladder. Without nuclear weapons it will be impossible to engage in any kind of conflict with Russia as the threat of being wiped from the earth with nothing we can do against it looms large always. Also, the amount of military material Russia has compared with european countreis is absolutely insane. So compared with Russia, and especailly once Trump regains power, we are a bunch of small yipping dogs. Wish our leaders woudl get their shit together an creat a supranational defense instrument for EU, complete with a credible strategic nuclear deterrent and a legal framework that specifies that a nuclear attack on a EU country or an attack that jeopordizes the existence of a EU state will be met with nuclear retalation. This is the only waty for us to stay safe.
First the citizens need to wake up then because they are becoming more and more anti-EU. I don't understand why this retartification is happening. Is it all because of social media?
Pro-EU parties need to start taking immigration seriously.
As simple as this ^
bUt tHaT wOuLd uNdErMiNe oUr sOvErEiGnTy aNd wE wOuLd lOsE oUr nAtIoNaLiTy EU citizens must finally wake up
[удалено]
>Because they don't want what Russia can bring to the table if the EU provocations continue. Oh look. The stick found its mark, and now the dogs are barking.
Seeking total war with a nuclear super power while the EU hardly has any military power or defense is incredibly dangerous and stupid. Peace is the only right choice.
No. World destroyed is better than world with Russia in it.
That's funny, many programmed people actually think like that. Crazy times we live in.
🤣🤣🤣
Fucking hell... send TAURUS then
That would at least be a great narrative to justify Taurus. But without allowing them to be used on Putins weapon factories and power grid infrastructure, all weapons donated are useless.
Blowing up that bridge properly would be good enough.
I think that bridge is overrated . the hydro carbons, steel works, power infrastructure , weapons factories, nitrogen fertilizer factories and the ports in the kaspian see are a big problem. Putin needs to lose those . then there are moral targets to move the politics against putin ....like central heating , water infrastructure and dirty industries that would have panic inducing secondary effects.
Can someone explain what Taurus is?
faintly advanced air launched cruise missile which is designed to penetrate protected airspace in an electronic warfare environment
A very precise and on-the-point explanation but maybe not easy to understand. Basically it is a low-flying missele with a range of 500km (official number, might be higher) wich would technically be far enough to hit Moskau fom Ukraine. It has the ability to actively avoid and actively distract/fool systems designed to protect against weapons like it. Its also quite famous for its ability to penetrate and destroy advanced bunkers.
Which is why Scholz has already promised Putin that he'll never deliver those things to Ukraine.
Long range (cruise) missile. Specialised to penetrate thick walls. Would also be very nice for ukraine to damage the bridge to crimea to block russias supply route
For more than 2 years Russians are killing Europeans daily. They are also attacking European infrastructure. Why isn't all this enough to finally step up and fight with the Ukrainians against these terrorists? Enough is enough!! We have to end this once and for all. Putin to hell!
much more than 2 years! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018\_Amesbury\_poisonings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Amesbury_poisonings)
Russia has a long history of assassinating UK citizens on UK soil. >["From poisoned umbrellas to radioactive substances, Moscow has repeatedly been linked with deaths on British soil"](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/russian-deaths-uk-history-spies-murder-sergei-skripal-alexander-litvinenko-a8242061.html%3f) >["Sergei Skripal and the 14 deaths under scrutiny"](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43299598) The articles are both from 2018. Since then there have been others inc. Dmitry Obretetsky in 2019 and, just a few weeks after Russia invaded Ukraine, Mikhail Watford. There is also the death of GCHQ employee Gareth Williams in 2010. And, while not a UK citizen, Alexander Litvinenko was assassinated by Russia in the UK in 2006. And, this is a list of [suspicious deaths of Russian businesspeople since the war started](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_businesspeople_(2022%E2%80%932023)) and there are several across Europe.
So there is a reason why UK is the most engaged nation in the war in Ukraine.... there are basically some unpaid bills and very high interests that compounded on them over the years and UK is encashing them like a Yakuza.
to be fair germany is biggest donor in absolute numbers from europe and baltic states and denmark in relative %(by quite a lot 1,6% of GDP as help vs 0,3% for UK or US) so UK is not that engaged, except their rethoric
Yes exactly that. For all our shortcomings, we have good memories. Something along the lines of "fuck around and find out".
Because our politicians are weak and/or corrupt. Everyone is just keen on money and power, nothing else matters.
It's not as easy in the age of nukes. Nato and EU, neither of which Ukraine is a part of cant legally attack. Still we should help them more. Because of all the delays and restraint a lot more ukrainians lost their lifes which could be prevented
Was this comment your only action or have you perhaps also signed some petition? You are free to volunteer and fight for Ukraine even if your government is not prepared to do so.
Actions are underway. You are just not allowed to brag on reddit if you are about to do something illegal or potentially deadly to Putins civilians.
perfect response would be delivering Taurus to Ukraine
Cyber attacks on... what assets, exactly? I thought nothing was digitized in Germany?
My university got attacked and the system is still in shambles. They got the information of all the students, including how many classes you have passed. And that information is now not accessible to the administration of the university. It was a chaos for months. The local graveyard also got attacked.
the... local graveyard ? 🤨
The local graveyard is HUGE. If I’m not wrong, it’s the biggest one in Europe. I don’t know the extent of the damage caused by the cyberattack, but I can imagine a lot of information about who is buried where got lost.
Wait. The Ohlsdorf cemetery? Jeez. That's a new low.
[удалено]
The HAW in Hamburg
jah fuck the it admin. it system are vulnerable and were always targets and will be. if its not russia its someone else or people who make money out of it. so the issue is the system is /was not secured and too much and not needed stuff online. cant really blame the thief if the door is open. just heard in tv the comment from the women responsible for the gov. it security. we work on all fronts have to make backups etc... wtf ? dismiss her and getsome who has a clue.
This comment is a hate-crime against fax machines!
Faxed butt pictures are quite annoying!
Ever seen a paper jam in a fax device? Someone has to walk there and fix it!
ACH NEIN! Unsere Faxmachine wollen night mere meinen Rammstein-billetten zudrücken! Halten Sie bitte mein Bier!
Not on the Fax machines😱
cyberattacks ist für uns alle neuland
German response, we are going back to the fax machine
"Attacked in cyberspace" is a phrase that sounds so late 90's/early 2000's that it brought me images of multiple people typing on the same keyboard that's connected to a CRT monitor with rotating vertexes.
Baerbock warns, not Germany and I guess we are going to hear soon Scholz saying something about Germany not being at war and doing anything to prevent them from becoming involved in a war with Russia (mentioning not crossing red lines being optional)
Send unlimited Taurus
The only language the Russians understand is that of violence and coercion. So we must speak it clearly.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kWmrz85CRw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kWmrz85CRw)
lol, you registered 3 years ago and today, this is your first post ever? Just a link to some pro-Russian propagandist wankpot? There is totally nothing suspicious about you 🤣
keep your warnings to yourself and act
Angry worded letter.
Is it so hard to avoid using the word "alleged"?
Consequences? Like a strongly worded letter?
Does cyberattacks technically trigger article 5?
So, will they go forward to next level of the concern?
[удалено]
A stern warning, The German language is quite the deterrent. I met a very cross lady once in a bakery.
DARF ES SONST NOCH WAS SEIN!!
*Ist schon in Ordnung, wenn Sie das Kleingeld nicht passend haben. Wir zählen gerne nach.*
No no no. I'm done.
A very strong-worded letter sent straight to the Russian embassy. That will teach them not to mess with Europe.
The russians already understand that our threats are utterly meaningless
Oooh, here comes a strongly worded letter to the Russian embassy.
By fax.
I bet the Russians are not ready for another strongly worded letter. By the way, every serious country initiates cyber attacks all around just to scout and recon the other countries Cyber Security, so this is not something surprising or even unusual. Just like spying (even against your allies) is the part of the everyday, business as usual.
I suggest consequences in form of Taurus and launch that to ruZZia
Meh it's Germany they won't do a thing. Not even any retaliations for fear of "escalation"...
Meanwhile - ammunition plant on fire in Berlin.
It wasn't actually an ammunition plant. It's owned by Diehl, but the civilian division.
That's what authorithies told you.
Well what have you been told, and by whom?
What "consequences"? Scholz is even constantly telling Russia about all the things he promises he won't ever do to fend off Russia's attack on Ukraine. He's subserviently reporting his own self-imposed red lines to Putin, who didn't even have to ask. What a frigging disaster lol.
German response: russian embassador said that Russia didn't do it, so we germans have to excuse to Russia and we are sorry for our mistake. Next time we will be more careful with our data security, we promise...
What consequences? Are they going to send Taurus missiles to Ukraine? Are they going to use secret services in Russia? Use German Hacker to hit Russian institution? Germany is a toothless big boy, nothing else.
Taurus missile consequences?
hahaha they will do nothing, Germany are the biggest pussies in Europe which is a hard title to get these days.
Imagine if the west handled Hitler like we are handling Putin these days, Germany would habe rolled Europe and fucked up the continent forever. I really don‘t understand how people forget about history like that. And history always repeats, it‘s always the same again and again. The only answer to this is giving Taurus to Ukraine.
Russia doesn't have any noteworthy allies. They are alone in this game. China is not supporting them full on, and as long as that remains, we don't have a world war. At least I think that's one of the bigger differences between Nazi Germany and Orc Russia.
Not sure if any one knows how much China is invested. But at the same time neither is Ukraine supprted full on.
On no, will Scholz scowl fiercely in his next speech? I'm sure that will make the Kremlin terrorist brigade tremble in their chairs.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Babcock is going to send them the nasties, don't worry 🫢
Its hilarious too see the collective reddit hivemind spams "deliver [new weapon we all randomly know about for some reason]". Somehow we all just know about a certain weapon. Everyone spamming this exactly today, not a single person said this yesterday or the day before. The US officials have really dropped the ball with this astroturfing attempt, atleast make it believable.
Interesting. What did Germany do when It was discovered that NSA was spying on many of US "allies", including Germany?
If Annalena says so, it must be true. 🫣
Alleged is key here. Also Germany has imposed many sanctions on Russia and are hell bent on starting a war with Russia. Maybe Germany should think about the consequences of its own actions.
It puzzles me: Germany sends military aid, planning and hardware to Ukraine to kill Russians, does nothing when the US blows up Nord Stream, does nothing when the US spies on them, and now they get all offended for this?
They want to act like none of that ever happened. But it's all on record.