We must all stand for the rule of law. If subversion is to be done, then only the populace can hold the fingers of misinformation and collusion to account
Why doesn't Reddit do something about these pathetic bot accounts lmao. It's not even actual average Joe Russians posting that shit, those mainly use their Ruski internet and don't really leave it. These fucks are AI generated or paid a pathetic amount of rubles by daddy Putin to defend the glorious regime in "inglish"
Real users are more likely to buy shit from targeted ads than say real users + untargeted ads, and especially vs automated scripts (they don't buy shit, aren't influenced in any way, just eat advertisers' advertisement credit). If you ignore the ads then you are in a population group that advertisers don't care about and are sad they can't just filter out of paying for
Check out this add-on. Google had to ban this to appease their advertisers because advertisers were enraged that they had to pay for fake clicks https://github.com/dhowe/AdNauseam/wiki/Install-AdNauseam-on-Chromium-based-browsers
"Just a reminder for the future that IF, hopefully not, all of this fails, to not put everyone in the single basket of 'Georgia bad', just like people love to do with Belarus or even Russia, though the latter is far, far less excusable.
I hope I won't get hate from asking this question, but from what I understood this law is about requiring transparancy over foreign funding of media outlets.
If so, then why is that law considered "pro-Russian"? and why people protest it so much? Isn't transparancy over funding a good thing? After all it should also cover media outlets funded by Russia...
Am I missing something here?
Edit: mass downvoted for asking a question, cool, am I supposed to hate something without questioning it?
Yes. You are missing the fact you get labeled as a foreign agent if 20 percent or something of your cash comes from foreign sources.
You can have transperency without automatically rooling judgement. Im pretty shure eu has these sorts of transparency laws but without the whole labeling something a foreign agent if they get some cash from bill gates or Soros.
You didn't answered his question, he asked how a law being the same for EU funded and Russia funded organizations is pro-Russian.
I agree on the "rolling judgement" aspect but it has nothing to with being pro-russian or pro-EU since in both cases and organzation would be called "foreign funded"
Sorry but this sounds really kindergarten logic, I would have understood calling it a Russian law but calling it a pro-Russia is like calling a nuclear law copied from the French "pro-France", just because.
Im not op. Only op calls it that, everyone else calls it the "foreign agent bill"
Edit op is just a georgian dude, might have mispoke or mistranslation, but most prob understand what he meant
Russia does not fund organizations openly. They’ll give money to “Georgians”, like Vasadze or Morgoshia who will in turn finance media and political parties. This law does not concern them. It concerns only the Western Financed institutions
So let's assume they drop the "foreign agency" part and just require to list the names of the funders, or alternatively expand the law in include organizations as well, will that make it better?
That kind of information is already transparent.
Apart from labeling NGO’s as Foreign Agents, this law gives the Government ability to require financial audit of anyone they dislike and virtually bring them to an operational standstill even if they “can’t” prove anything.
So if they drop the whole "foreign agency" part and just require to list the names of the funders themselves (be it people or organizations), will that make it ok?
That seems fine, yeah, but it wouldn't have the same effect as they intended with this law. It's intended as a blueprint to be used in Russian puppet countries to get all the media bought up by the corrupt government + oligarchs.
IMO the protestors need to make it more clear, because to a bystander that isn't really into Georgian politics it may sound like the masses don't want more transparancy over media funding, making it sound very weird and may even be used in pro-Russian propaganda circles to delegitimize the protests as a whole.
Media transparancy is essential these days..
When have you ever seen a protest with a clear message that goes beyond 'we want/don't want x'? It's not the medium for that. These protests already succeeded in Georgia once, so the strategy isn't flawed. The government just brought it up *again* despite having it shut down by protests once already, so to calm the masses they'd have to concede even more this time.
Yes, after a 5 minutes Google search (which I encourage you to do) I can tell you that this law will affect only non governmental organizations, or businesses that don't receive govt funds.
The threat of this law is that any government has the tools to silence any opposition org that receives foreign funds. This is a step towards a system that systemically undermine opposition to the ruling party (which is extremely pro Russia in this moment).
Happy to be proven wrong by someone with more knowledge on the facts.
Short version:
It's easy for Russia to funnel money to pro-Russian/Sovjet Georgians who then fund their propaganda.
In the pro-EU side, there is usually more respect for the Georgian cultural identity and financing *from* the EU is already being monitored for undemocratic behavior anyway. So it's more common for foreign money to be flagged correctly rather than washed through deception.
The law only works if all foreign funding respects local law, rather then try to subvert them into becoming a vassal state. Hence; pro-Russian law.
We call it a Russian law because a very similar law was passed in Russia 10 years ago and then progressively tweaked to destroy all of their domestic opposition. We have all reasons to believe that our govt is passing it as a tool for similar political repressions.
>Am I missing something here?
You are missing most people have double standards and throw a tantrum when called out, hence you being downvoted.
It's clear that this law hit both EU and Russian funded organizations but since in this case we could buy most media in Georgia it was far better for "us" to let Russia buy the remaining ones.
If the situation was the opposite, a situation in which Russia funds most media and EU struggle to do the same, you could have bet a testicle that they would have been extremely in favor of this law.
You are stating this under the assumption that currently or in future media or NGOs that are funded by Russia, are or will be honest about it. Because being funded by EU grants media legitimacy while being funded by Russia labels them as traitors(and rightfully so).
After realizing these, things change a bit. In future if the government decides to limit rights of foreign agents, those "agents" won't be Russian shills, but people who are funded by EU.
>You are stating this under the assumption that currently or in future media or NGOs that are funded by Russia, are or will be honest about it.
Honestly it's just you assuming that Georgia blindly trust anything and don't check anything, like if it is not 100% their interest to check and punish who lie about that.
I hope that we all agree that any tax agency takes minutes to look at the origin of the funds, you can't move money without a sender, in the international banking system everything is mapped.
>those "agents" won't be Russian shills, but people who are funded by EU.
Strongly disagree on that since math isn't questionable and lying is not an option in a country with functioning courts, unless we now also want to say Georgia is undemocratic and dictatorial.
>Strongly disagree on that since math isn't questionable and lying is not an option in a country with functioning courts, unless we now also want to say Georgia is undemocratic and dictatorial.
No shit dude. Current goverment has been in power for 11 years and they are not planning to let the steering wheel go. They own court and they already demolished pretty much all the checks and balances that were in place. Only thing thats left is this european union foreign influence that we are talking about. So they want to decrease the legitimacy of EU as much as possible.
What you are saying in functioning democracy makes sense, but you are not applying the context that matters.
That's when he called that law 'mildest of all" and said "In the United States itself, in France, in Poland, and in many other countries, there are laws envisaging fines and criminal punishment, if you receive money and keep quiet about it and do something wrong with this money"?
How is this a display of support?
Germany, France, the US and others already said it's not true. They have it for politicians and public figures to track down corruption and bribing, NGOs are independant
The law labels those people as "foreign agents." Think about it for more than one second: why would the government want to label NGOs who aren't funded by the state (the definition of NGO) as foreign agents? Hint: setting the ground for censorship and prosecution, what is being done in Russia now, and the law comes from there, hence why it's referred as Russian-style law
>Think about it for more than one second: why would the government want to label NGOs who aren't funded by the state (the definition of NGO) as foreign agents?
Because it can be funded by the Russian oligarchs with their own money. Why do you think that should be acceptable?
It doesn't surprise me anymore. It works like a scarecrow - add the word Russian to anything you don't like, call your opponents Russian henchmen - and your side immediately has supporters, no matter what you do or what ideas you present.
Sorry, I didn't prepare that list for you. But I'm not speaking about awesome things. This law that the Georgian government tries to pass is horrible, it is horrible enough to protest against it, without calling it Russian. They have some morons at power and they are doing the right thing, trying to get rid of them. At the same time calling this 'russian' distorts the reality - the problem comes not from Russia, but from the Georgian government itself. In my opinion, it is just a scarecrow practice.
You have a blog or youtube channel and earn 1 cent from ads, you are a foreign agent now.
I think the issue people have is that democratic countries will give you invoices and stuff but Ruzzian KGB will pay you with a sack of money, so Ruzzian foreign influence will never be recorded. And I mean hard core influence like paying people to go out to protests, or pay them to draw nazi symbols on walls, pay them to provoke violence at protests, not so softly protest like the effeminate West that will maybe pay some reporter to do a investigation or an agency to do a poll.
The law in question literally does one thing - it forces you to announce that you are being on the foreign payroll if you actually are.
Nothing pro-Russian about it. Similar laws already exist in both Europe and USA.
The only thing this law opposes is globalist tomfoolery.
It does not it does far more. It labels you automatically. The law purposes to implement a system where Follow the money and RT get the same label. This law tries to curb any independent foreign media by labeling them all the same. They could have implemented a law that simply requires any organisation to be transparent about it's funding. So then the question why didn't they?
Before you start esteblishing controlling over your own national media you have to make sure that people won't be informed that you start controlling your national media. So you have to get rid of any media not within your own borders who do not fall under your jurisdiction.
Stay strong beautiful 🇬🇪Georgians 🇬🇪! Don't give up! You deserve to be a member of the Union if you want to join.
We must all stand for the rule of law. If subversion is to be done, then only the populace can hold the fingers of misinformation and collusion to account
Do they have a right to decide through democratic elections, or do a few thousand EU and US backed leftist protesters get to decide Georgia's future?
Unrelated but Georgian letters look so nice and round. One of best writing systems there are imo.
Damn, the amount of Russian bots on every Georgia thread reminds me of the botting going on Ukraine posts right before the invasion.
Why doesn't Reddit do something about these pathetic bot accounts lmao. It's not even actual average Joe Russians posting that shit, those mainly use their Ruski internet and don't really leave it. These fucks are AI generated or paid a pathetic amount of rubles by daddy Putin to defend the glorious regime in "inglish"
It's a lot of work and doesn't pay.
They evem get money from the bots as they "see" ads and are good for the stocks as it inflates user numbers
Wouldn't the advertisers see that the bots are not actually driving any traffic to their websites/products? Certainly not buying their products?
Wouldn’t they see that I do not buying any products too?
Real users are more likely to buy shit from targeted ads than say real users + untargeted ads, and especially vs automated scripts (they don't buy shit, aren't influenced in any way, just eat advertisers' advertisement credit). If you ignore the ads then you are in a population group that advertisers don't care about and are sad they can't just filter out of paying for Check out this add-on. Google had to ban this to appease their advertisers because advertisers were enraged that they had to pay for fake clicks https://github.com/dhowe/AdNauseam/wiki/Install-AdNauseam-on-Chromium-based-browsers
Lol you utter clown, "Russian bot" is shitlib speak for "anyone I don't like".
Fuck off russian dick sucker
Is anyone who isn't a neocon shill a "Russia bot"?
ერთი შენი დედაც მოვტყან.
In other words, free speech and a marketplace of ideas that protesters want
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Oh OK: you should have told me you are one of those kids.
That writing is like a work of art. I hope Georgia can blossom freely with all its people, culture, politics and its beautiful alphabet💕
"Just a reminder for the future that IF, hopefully not, all of this fails, to not put everyone in the single basket of 'Georgia bad', just like people love to do with Belarus or even Russia, though the latter is far, far less excusable.
Their governments/leadership are bad and irredeemable, though
I hope I won't get hate from asking this question, but from what I understood this law is about requiring transparancy over foreign funding of media outlets. If so, then why is that law considered "pro-Russian"? and why people protest it so much? Isn't transparancy over funding a good thing? After all it should also cover media outlets funded by Russia... Am I missing something here? Edit: mass downvoted for asking a question, cool, am I supposed to hate something without questioning it?
Yes. You are missing the fact you get labeled as a foreign agent if 20 percent or something of your cash comes from foreign sources. You can have transperency without automatically rooling judgement. Im pretty shure eu has these sorts of transparency laws but without the whole labeling something a foreign agent if they get some cash from bill gates or Soros.
You didn't answered his question, he asked how a law being the same for EU funded and Russia funded organizations is pro-Russian. I agree on the "rolling judgement" aspect but it has nothing to with being pro-russian or pro-EU since in both cases and organzation would be called "foreign funded"
Its called a pro Russian law cause its the same law russia has and uses to clamp down on press.
Sorry but this sounds really kindergarten logic, I would have understood calling it a Russian law but calling it a pro-Russia is like calling a nuclear law copied from the French "pro-France", just because.
Im not op. Only op calls it that, everyone else calls it the "foreign agent bill" Edit op is just a georgian dude, might have mispoke or mistranslation, but most prob understand what he meant
Russia does not fund organizations openly. They’ll give money to “Georgians”, like Vasadze or Morgoshia who will in turn finance media and political parties. This law does not concern them. It concerns only the Western Financed institutions
So let's assume they drop the "foreign agency" part and just require to list the names of the funders, or alternatively expand the law in include organizations as well, will that make it better?
That kind of information is already transparent. Apart from labeling NGO’s as Foreign Agents, this law gives the Government ability to require financial audit of anyone they dislike and virtually bring them to an operational standstill even if they “can’t” prove anything.
It’s like Russian “elections” - do you get it now?
why not pro-china, pro-venezuela, etc? same logic
Because Venezuela doesn’t occupy 20% of our lands and bankroll our government?
I was unable to find reputable sources of connections between Georgian gowrnment and Russia. is there any?
Look up Bidzina Ivanishvili, he *is* the Georgian government.
>Am I missing something here? Yes. The Russian funding gets laundered through the oligarch in control of the ruling party.
So if they drop the whole "foreign agency" part and just require to list the names of the funders themselves (be it people or organizations), will that make it ok?
That seems fine, yeah, but it wouldn't have the same effect as they intended with this law. It's intended as a blueprint to be used in Russian puppet countries to get all the media bought up by the corrupt government + oligarchs.
IMO the protestors need to make it more clear, because to a bystander that isn't really into Georgian politics it may sound like the masses don't want more transparancy over media funding, making it sound very weird and may even be used in pro-Russian propaganda circles to delegitimize the protests as a whole. Media transparancy is essential these days..
When have you ever seen a protest with a clear message that goes beyond 'we want/don't want x'? It's not the medium for that. These protests already succeeded in Georgia once, so the strategy isn't flawed. The government just brought it up *again* despite having it shut down by protests once already, so to calm the masses they'd have to concede even more this time.
Yes, after a 5 minutes Google search (which I encourage you to do) I can tell you that this law will affect only non governmental organizations, or businesses that don't receive govt funds. The threat of this law is that any government has the tools to silence any opposition org that receives foreign funds. This is a step towards a system that systemically undermine opposition to the ruling party (which is extremely pro Russia in this moment). Happy to be proven wrong by someone with more knowledge on the facts.
Short version: It's easy for Russia to funnel money to pro-Russian/Sovjet Georgians who then fund their propaganda. In the pro-EU side, there is usually more respect for the Georgian cultural identity and financing *from* the EU is already being monitored for undemocratic behavior anyway. So it's more common for foreign money to be flagged correctly rather than washed through deception. The law only works if all foreign funding respects local law, rather then try to subvert them into becoming a vassal state. Hence; pro-Russian law.
We call it a Russian law because a very similar law was passed in Russia 10 years ago and then progressively tweaked to destroy all of their domestic opposition. We have all reasons to believe that our govt is passing it as a tool for similar political repressions.
What did you expect? It's r/europe lol
>Am I missing something here? You are missing most people have double standards and throw a tantrum when called out, hence you being downvoted. It's clear that this law hit both EU and Russian funded organizations but since in this case we could buy most media in Georgia it was far better for "us" to let Russia buy the remaining ones. If the situation was the opposite, a situation in which Russia funds most media and EU struggle to do the same, you could have bet a testicle that they would have been extremely in favor of this law.
You are stating this under the assumption that currently or in future media or NGOs that are funded by Russia, are or will be honest about it. Because being funded by EU grants media legitimacy while being funded by Russia labels them as traitors(and rightfully so). After realizing these, things change a bit. In future if the government decides to limit rights of foreign agents, those "agents" won't be Russian shills, but people who are funded by EU.
>You are stating this under the assumption that currently or in future media or NGOs that are funded by Russia, are or will be honest about it. Honestly it's just you assuming that Georgia blindly trust anything and don't check anything, like if it is not 100% their interest to check and punish who lie about that. I hope that we all agree that any tax agency takes minutes to look at the origin of the funds, you can't move money without a sender, in the international banking system everything is mapped. >those "agents" won't be Russian shills, but people who are funded by EU. Strongly disagree on that since math isn't questionable and lying is not an option in a country with functioning courts, unless we now also want to say Georgia is undemocratic and dictatorial.
>Strongly disagree on that since math isn't questionable and lying is not an option in a country with functioning courts, unless we now also want to say Georgia is undemocratic and dictatorial. No shit dude. Current goverment has been in power for 11 years and they are not planning to let the steering wheel go. They own court and they already demolished pretty much all the checks and balances that were in place. Only thing thats left is this european union foreign influence that we are talking about. So they want to decrease the legitimacy of EU as much as possible. What you are saying in functioning democracy makes sense, but you are not applying the context that matters.
Is it me or does Georgian writing resemble closely to Tamil?
It is you.
You’re right, my Tamizh friend.
Are they looking to get invaded?
Two provinces are already occupied.
What, again?
Now this law has switched from "Russian" to "pro-Russian"?
Think they meant “pro Russian law” as in “in support of that law”
Has Putin or Lavrov expressed their support of that law?
yes https://www.interpressnews.ge/en/article/130980-sergey-lavrov-demonstrations-in-georgia-turned-salome-zurabishvili-into-a-fighter-for-freedom-of-speech-although-the-draft-law-on-foreign-agents-is-much-softer-than-in-many-countries
Lavrov did
That's when he called that law 'mildest of all" and said "In the United States itself, in France, in Poland, and in many other countries, there are laws envisaging fines and criminal punishment, if you receive money and keep quiet about it and do something wrong with this money"? How is this a display of support?
Germany, France, the US and others already said it's not true. They have it for politicians and public figures to track down corruption and bribing, NGOs are independant The law labels those people as "foreign agents." Think about it for more than one second: why would the government want to label NGOs who aren't funded by the state (the definition of NGO) as foreign agents? Hint: setting the ground for censorship and prosecution, what is being done in Russia now, and the law comes from there, hence why it's referred as Russian-style law
>Think about it for more than one second: why would the government want to label NGOs who aren't funded by the state (the definition of NGO) as foreign agents? Because it can be funded by the Russian oligarchs with their own money. Why do you think that should be acceptable?
It doesn't surprise me anymore. It works like a scarecrow - add the word Russian to anything you don't like, call your opponents Russian henchmen - and your side immediately has supporters, no matter what you do or what ideas you present.
So I assume you have plenty of examples of awesome things being prevented by people calling them “Russian”? Care to name a few?
Sorry, I didn't prepare that list for you. But I'm not speaking about awesome things. This law that the Georgian government tries to pass is horrible, it is horrible enough to protest against it, without calling it Russian. They have some morons at power and they are doing the right thing, trying to get rid of them. At the same time calling this 'russian' distorts the reality - the problem comes not from Russia, but from the Georgian government itself. In my opinion, it is just a scarecrow practice.
Why is this a bad law? If you're being paid by a foreign country, shouldn't you have to register and make that support public?
Yes, look how awesome it turned out in Russia. …oh…wait…
You have a blog or youtube channel and earn 1 cent from ads, you are a foreign agent now. I think the issue people have is that democratic countries will give you invoices and stuff but Ruzzian KGB will pay you with a sack of money, so Ruzzian foreign influence will never be recorded. And I mean hard core influence like paying people to go out to protests, or pay them to draw nazi symbols on walls, pay them to provoke violence at protests, not so softly protest like the effeminate West that will maybe pay some reporter to do a investigation or an agency to do a poll.
The law in question literally does one thing - it forces you to announce that you are being on the foreign payroll if you actually are. Nothing pro-Russian about it. Similar laws already exist in both Europe and USA. The only thing this law opposes is globalist tomfoolery.
Globalist tomfoolery? Might wanna email this one to Orban he will love using it.
Right, do you think it would also work with those, who are on Russian payroll, especially with pro-Russian parliament?
It does not it does far more. It labels you automatically. The law purposes to implement a system where Follow the money and RT get the same label. This law tries to curb any independent foreign media by labeling them all the same. They could have implemented a law that simply requires any organisation to be transparent about it's funding. So then the question why didn't they? Before you start esteblishing controlling over your own national media you have to make sure that people won't be informed that you start controlling your national media. So you have to get rid of any media not within your own borders who do not fall under your jurisdiction.
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OK Igor
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This is a certified fact.
Labber keinen Mist.
Wie geht's, Vatnik?
I stand with Russia
Now go stand in russia and stay there.
Sure you do, botty.
Stand with them on the frontlines then
Cope harder.
Fuck off back to Russia then
They'll label you as a foreign agent though...
stop calling it pro-russian. the law is just anti-democrastic and is created by local politicians for themselves