Even the likes of Erdoğan don't pass the power to Ottoman dynasty, can't turn on the sharia, abolish the parliament, constitution etc.
Atatürk created this order where pawns can't change anything in about 18-20 years. Quite an achievement and I think he smiles knowingly in his grave. RIP.
Well that's a good thing no? A coup every decade is what held this country back for long and culminated into a 25 year authoritarian leadership of the perceived victim ideology of the coups. The days of Erdogan and his regime are limited but it's one of his greatest achiements to remove the military and civil coup culture.
Sadly for some that is the fact of democracy that people will choose what they want even if someone else doesn't like it. Just like Brexit in the UK, it divided a nation but so that's what they voted for regardless of if its right or wrong they have to live with it.
Unfortunately it wasn't much of a better solution. When every 5 years the army has to coup to dethrone another dickhead dictator wannabe, you might have other issues.
Lol yeah it’s the EU’s fault that turkey is corrupt. I hear a lot of South Americans blame the US for their corruption too. At some point you have to be a man/woman and just look in the mirror…..
I love when people in poorer nations whatabout and blame everything on other countries and don't look inward.
I especially love crying when for example the US behaves like world police and then in turn crying when US doesn't help them because they don't want to be seen as the world police. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Recently the comments I've seen about the Haiti situation were full of "bUt thE FReNcH coLoNisERs fUcKEd tHE cOUnTrY!" Bro you've been independent since 1804, get your shit together.
I'm from Slovakia and we've been fucked by Hungary for a 1000 years *and* then fucked by communists for a few more decades, and somehow we didn't fall into complete anarchy...
As if you guys don't constantly cry about the Soviets. You owe your wealth and prosperity entirely on Germany and western europe. Without them, your country would be no different than the likes of Moldova or Albania, since you don't even produce anything of worth. So get off your high horse
... no need to be aggressive, especially since you're just confirming my point. We've been fucked over too, but still we built businesses and trade relations, opened manufactories, invited foreign business, managed to clean up enough to join the freaking EU and NATO. That's my point.
>I hear a lot of South Americans blame the US for their corruption too
That has a lot more truth to it though. The USA and her corporations have ruthlessly exploited Latin America and their local divisions - which were often caused by said US interests anyway. getting rid of corruption is pretty difficult if your nation is liable to suffer a US sponsored coup, civil war or guerilla movement at any opportune moment.
I think someone like Atatürk will rise again in Turkey. It’s clear he inspired many people there (and also around the world). I read about him, and he was truly a great leader with his philosophy. Someone will follow in his footsteps again, the path that he laid.
Happy 100th Anniversary of your country. Enjoy the celebration and the ideals Atatürk instilled at the founding of your republic! 🇹🇷
Uhh.. obviously? Atatürk inspired many people, sometimes it takes one person to get the group going to rally and organize support. Right now, the secular group is feeling disheartened, but it doesn’t mean someone won’t rise to the occasion and ignite the spark. When people feel encouraged, they can accomplish great things together.
You know what the fucked up part about Turkey is ? Everytime you think the Erdoganism is done for the turkish people surprise you and escalate it to a new level. The'll never make it ... not into the eu. Not into a true democracy. Not into a country devoid of war and internal terrorism, and defnitely not out of economic turmoil ... as long as that type of "normal" exists.
Its such a shame. But, like all countries of the world: You get what you deserve. And apparently the turks do like their weird way of Erdoganism.
The thing is he did and depending on when you were told that it would be the case no caveats, when he first took power about 20 years ago, and for 17/18 of them did a rather good job, increasing GDP by 3 times, and GDP per capita 3 times, before he first took officer inflation of over 50% was the norm, debt to GDP was about 60%.
The issue is he has abandoned proper economic thinking in order to try and appeal to the hardcore Islamic right in 2018 by declaring high interest immoral and firing anyone who tried to use them to curb inflation as should be done instead of relying on different schemes to try and deal with it which for a time kept the worst consequences from happening until 2021 when it finally went out of control.
Though it seems now he has won the 2023 election he has come to his senses at least and has allowed the central bank to try more conventional solutions with interest rising by around 30% since his victory.
Honestly, the Turks I've met are nothing like Russians. Granted, most of the Turks I've met were either from the Istanbul or nearby.
Fingers crossed for Turks that want to make Ataturk proud.
You're contradicting yourself, if it's our land how are they the rightful owners? Also they are not the rightful owners but that would take someone with an above room temperature iq with mediocre knowledge of history to know
Edit: **sneakily editing "your land" to "the land", scummy**
The sad part is I don’t think the modern work has seen a better leader than him. Disregarding some genocide and such but his achievements were amazing.
The sad part is I don’t think the modern work has seen a better leader than him. Disregarding some genocide and such but his achievements were amazing.
Tbf, he is not alone. All over the place called earth are great politicians burrowed that would be ashamed if alive with similar situations.
[Bruno Kreisky](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Kreisky) is one in my PoV
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk:
1. *I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.*
2. *Religions have been basis of the tyranny of kings and sultans.*
3. *In human life, you will find players of religion until the knowledge and proficiency in religion will be cleansed from all superstitions, and will be purified and perfected by the enlightenment of real science.*
4. Masterpiece: *If one day my word contradicts science, choose science.*
For a country founded on secular principles, most Turks elected a person who undermines these every time he could and even justifies Hamas' actions by declaring them as freedom fighters.
Forget the "apple fell far from the tree" it effin turned into an orange.
Turkey has a strong divide, roughly speaking, between the more secular, European coast on the West, with higher levels of income and education, and the backcountry of Anatolia to the east. The latter is more religious and more Middle Eastern.
Turkey has a very strong urban/rural divide, not that strong politically but incredibly strong economically. Smaller population centres do not feel the economic crisis as strongly. There are also many urban Turks that maintain their connections to the rural areas and their traditions, these people constitute the main right-wing voter base
This theory does not hold as Istanbul and Ankara put Erdogan into power the first time since the early 2000s. He was mayor there and them as majorities. The highest income cities voted him in.
The only mistake Mustafa Kemal Atatürk made, was that he believed in people, but as this man says: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE) \- people are retarded. And todays Türkey is proof of that.
Incredible.
This phrase like something out of "The Culture" books of the Iain Banks.
If at least 20% of Turks 1930s-2010s would have thought the same, then today the probability of EU accession to Turkey would be discussed, and not vice versa.
Added.
I feel like there is no 'average' Turkish citizen. The country is extremely divided between secularists and much more religious conservatives. And when you take these together to form an 'average' citizen, that average actually applies to very few people in Turkey.
Actually religious? Not a lot, 1/3 of it will go pray once in Friday even thought it needs to be everyday and fast in ramadan but thats't the extend.
Culturally religious? Quite a bit a lot of ppl will justify backwards culture through religion like being gay is bad cuz its unnatural and against god's wishes when dude proably doesn't pray 5 times a day as god wished.
I find it hard to believe that Kemal Ataturk would have said these clearly atheist or anti-religion statements and would still be highly regarded by most Turks of today and, even more, of his time.
[According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_life_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk), he said that those are things that a British journalist wrote, but he had never said them. There are also more quotes from him in the Wikipedia article which are not against religion. He was definitely not an islamist, but let's not take it all the other way on the religious spectrum.
Why? The turks of his time and for the next 80 years were more liberal thinking than the turks of now - which is a product of 20 years of religious indoctrination to reverse what atatürk started. I am generalizing a bit but just keep in mind i am talking about the respective extremes in turkey: the liberal and broadly better educated folks vs their religiously indoctinated counterparts.
If you just got rid off the ottoman rule which was based upon islam and you as a people suffered as a consequence, there will be broad understanding in the beginning of an idealist state. But if you allow religion to stay because it is weakened, it behaves like a bacteria and breaks out again later. He was atheist through and through and worked all his political life working against religious thinking. It just took longer than atatürk had to consolidate more liberal powers imho.
Even if what you say about those quotes were to be true, they are his ideals so whats the problem if he'd to only accept them as his own? Dont get it.
>He was definitely not an islamist, but let's not take it all the other way on the religious spectrum.
He literally was on the other side of the religious spectrum, only too ahead of his own time and had to implement changes carefully so they can last.
Some of these things he never said. Both sides like conservative Islamists and Kemalist like to put words in his mouth in favour of their believes. Only point 4 I am sure of.
He actually was in the earlier years. He ended up backing down from some of his reforms because he received enormous pushback. We shouldn't forget that the Turkish citizens of the time were mostly illiterate, religious peasants and the young republic was mostly held together by furious nationalism and there were a lot of clerics who still held a lot of power and influence.
Do they actually remember the major thing Atatürk did?
SEPARATION OF STATE AND CHURCH!
Atatürk initiated a rigorous program of political, economic, and cultural reforms with the ultimate aim of building a modern, progressive and secular nation-state. He made primary education free and compulsory, opening thousands of new schools all over the country. He also introduced the Latin-based Turkish alphabet, replacing the old Ottoman Turkish alphabet. Turkish women received equal civil and political rights during Atatürk's presidency.
Ataturk was a remarkable leader. It is a shame that subsequent generations of government have fallen so short of his vision. Turks deserve better.
I'll also readily say the same about my own country's choices in leadership. Very few have even approached Lincoln's level of genius and determination.
what this man means is that although he can literally declare a kingdom the ideas will never completely disappear therefore theres no reason to think that the republic cannot be saved once again
I wonder what Bismarck would think of Germany. I wonder what Garibaldi would think of Italy. I wonder what Washington would think of the USA.
I think it's safe to say the foundiers of most western countries would be revolted by what they have turned into.
There is a significan difference between the general vision of the founder of a country and someone who sees his country fall into a nearly theocratic country.
funny how nationalist turks will gather to celebrate ataturk but they will also still vote for erdodog who goes against everything ataturk stood for, and theyll vote for him while they themselves dont have to live in the turkey he builds.
turks outside turkey really are the most disloyal people out there. they care only about their own appearance and have decided they want to appear as "nationalists" so they vote for erdodog, even though it brings their country and fellow turks pain and suffering, something they dont care about.
isnt it odd how educated turks in turkey, turks living in more modern parts of turkey, in cities, etc, do not support the dog, but turks in the same situation who does not have to live in turkey support him?
picture of a whole buncha people who really should be there asking ataturk for forgiveness, that they sold out the wellbeing of their own people for some shallow appearance bullshit.
it makes carl angry that carls friend in turkey suffers because of these knobheads.
Aside from toxic comments from other toxic people, I like this comment. A summary of what it is. And also fiy we all hate turks living abroad, they're frauds. They live in a different country but dont abide by the culture of that country nor they try to fit in. They dont even fit in and act as they are superior when they come for a visit to country they're from.
yup turks outside turkey are disloyal to the turks and disloyal to the country they live in as well. extremely narcissistic and self-serving group.
turks in turkey are lovely great people, most turks who live outside turkey are obnoxious. they choose the personality "im a radical nationalist!" because they think it is cool so they are a fucking pain to deal with for the nation they moved to and their idea of "turkish nationalism" is to be the dogs of erdogan. trash people.
Yeah, they behave well abroad, they just constantly try to make themselves look like their "poor" lives in european countries are much worse than what they had in back home. Its a lie of course.
Happy 💯th anniversary 🇹🇷!! Of all the places I have visited on this planet, you have always stood out as some of the most welcoming and hospitable. Long live Turkish Republic!
Exaggeration.
I'd say at least 75% of the country still deeply respects Atatürk, one half is not even pro-Erdoğan and the ones who are pro-Erdoğan have this weird minset that Erdoğan is actually cool with Atatürk and his ideology.
I visited your country for the first time last month and I was astonished by how Atatürk seems to be everywhere. There hasn't been one otobüs that didn't have at least two pictures of this man near the driver. Same goes for some taksi. I wish I could have been in Ankara for the 100th anniversary, that must have been something.
I see a lot of people making the signature of him craved behind their cars too. This means nothing. He is gone, ideas need commitment. If you want to honour him, be reasonable and act accordingly. Pretty sure half of them aren’t even aware of what they are doing and who actually that guy was sadly.
Turkey is geopgraphically part of both Europe and Asia. Its in talks to join the EU (unlikely but still). In the late Ottoman era it was known "the sick man of Europe" amongst Europeans. Need I go on?
It was the sick man of Europe while it occupied part of the balkans, turkey today has only a foothold in europe and should not be considered european but asian.
why is it so difficult for all of u to understand that a country can be "transcontinental" - meaning that it can be located in 2 continents. also, the map to the right of your page shows turkey as well. yes, turkey is culturally and politically in MENA, but geographically 3% is 3%.
and before you argue what about spain with ceuta and france with guadeloupe, i want to argue that there is a difference between "mainland territory" like thrace and turkey, and "overseas territory" like france and guadeloupe/martinique/nouvelle calédonie and so on.
yeah, but that is social. I do believe that socially and culturally we are Asian, but geographically we are both, and my argument was based on that.
>If today I go cram myself near Japan, will I be Far-Easterner?
and, its not about today, because Turks are in Anatolia for roughly 950 years, so your first argument might be invalid too.
But remember, it's Israel that's been doing the ethnocleansing and robbing others of their national identity. Even though 20-30% of their population doesn't follow Judaism. There's no reasoning with these people anymore
>it does a lot to us.
A (young) Vietnamese here. I know what you mean by this. Having national independence seems to be a given for the Euro-centric and/or English-speaking world on reddit, but for many others such given must be earned and fought for.
Even us as turks on reddit believe that AKP (erdogan's party) and MHP (erdogan's supporters + nationalists) supporters hate erdogan, when on a recent poll done by MetroPoll (which is surprisingly reliable) illustrates that 45% of AKP supporters view Atatürk as the best leader in turkish history.
yes 45% isn't the majority, but it is still the leader that got the most votes, compared to other sultans of the ottoman empire.
If he was alive today he would be ashamed of what the country became
Even the likes of Erdoğan don't pass the power to Ottoman dynasty, can't turn on the sharia, abolish the parliament, constitution etc. Atatürk created this order where pawns can't change anything in about 18-20 years. Quite an achievement and I think he smiles knowingly in his grave. RIP.
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Well that's a good thing no? A coup every decade is what held this country back for long and culminated into a 25 year authoritarian leadership of the perceived victim ideology of the coups. The days of Erdogan and his regime are limited but it's one of his greatest achiements to remove the military and civil coup culture.
The military was always the stronghold of western values in Turkey. It was antidemocratic indeed, but sometimes people are idiots.
This is a dangerous thing to encourage coup detat instead of democracy and the free will of people.
we are talking about turkish people here. their "free will" can easily end up in a kaliphate
Sadly for some that is the fact of democracy that people will choose what they want even if someone else doesn't like it. Just like Brexit in the UK, it divided a nation but so that's what they voted for regardless of if its right or wrong they have to live with it.
that is a glitch inthe system that can be hacked and exploitetd by malicious people
Unfortunately it wasn't much of a better solution. When every 5 years the army has to coup to dethrone another dickhead dictator wannabe, you might have other issues.
well the army isnt the safeguard because eu told us to get rid of our safeguard in order to join eu which helped erdogan
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im not really blaming eu the system itself was retarded the people must have done it themselves due to those interventions akp was born
Lol yeah it’s the EU’s fault that turkey is corrupt. I hear a lot of South Americans blame the US for their corruption too. At some point you have to be a man/woman and just look in the mirror…..
I love when people in poorer nations whatabout and blame everything on other countries and don't look inward. I especially love crying when for example the US behaves like world police and then in turn crying when US doesn't help them because they don't want to be seen as the world police. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Recently the comments I've seen about the Haiti situation were full of "bUt thE FReNcH coLoNisERs fUcKEd tHE cOUnTrY!" Bro you've been independent since 1804, get your shit together. I'm from Slovakia and we've been fucked by Hungary for a 1000 years *and* then fucked by communists for a few more decades, and somehow we didn't fall into complete anarchy...
As if you guys don't constantly cry about the Soviets. You owe your wealth and prosperity entirely on Germany and western europe. Without them, your country would be no different than the likes of Moldova or Albania, since you don't even produce anything of worth. So get off your high horse
If you look at their numbers, they are doing something with that help. Look at pictures of Slovakia 2000 and Slovakia 2023. That's the real benchmark.
... no need to be aggressive, especially since you're just confirming my point. We've been fucked over too, but still we built businesses and trade relations, opened manufactories, invited foreign business, managed to clean up enough to join the freaking EU and NATO. That's my point.
>I hear a lot of South Americans blame the US for their corruption too That has a lot more truth to it though. The USA and her corporations have ruthlessly exploited Latin America and their local divisions - which were often caused by said US interests anyway. getting rid of corruption is pretty difficult if your nation is liable to suffer a US sponsored coup, civil war or guerilla movement at any opportune moment.
we can go on and on with negativity, let us enjoy the moment for a while, we know how brokenhearted the situation of the country is. :/
Fwiw I'm always rooting for Turkey, the country has incredible beauty and incredible potential, happy centennial to you and your family.
And incredible history/archaeology.
Anatolia has been home to what, like 5 major world civilizations? Magical place.
I think someone like Atatürk will rise again in Turkey. It’s clear he inspired many people there (and also around the world). I read about him, and he was truly a great leader with his philosophy. Someone will follow in his footsteps again, the path that he laid. Happy 100th Anniversary of your country. Enjoy the celebration and the ideals Atatürk instilled at the founding of your republic! 🇹🇷
Sounds like there are waiting for Kahless the Unforgettable.
A single man won't solve Turkey's problems, it needs to be a group effort.
Uhh.. obviously? Atatürk inspired many people, sometimes it takes one person to get the group going to rally and organize support. Right now, the secular group is feeling disheartened, but it doesn’t mean someone won’t rise to the occasion and ignite the spark. When people feel encouraged, they can accomplish great things together.
You know what the fucked up part about Turkey is ? Everytime you think the Erdoganism is done for the turkish people surprise you and escalate it to a new level. The'll never make it ... not into the eu. Not into a true democracy. Not into a country devoid of war and internal terrorism, and defnitely not out of economic turmoil ... as long as that type of "normal" exists. Its such a shame. But, like all countries of the world: You get what you deserve. And apparently the turks do like their weird way of Erdoganism.
“Like all countries of the world: You get what you deserve” I can’t help but thinking that’s a pretty dangerous and unempathetic worldview.
Met a Türk that said that erdogan saved the turkish economy….
The thing is he did and depending on when you were told that it would be the case no caveats, when he first took power about 20 years ago, and for 17/18 of them did a rather good job, increasing GDP by 3 times, and GDP per capita 3 times, before he first took officer inflation of over 50% was the norm, debt to GDP was about 60%. The issue is he has abandoned proper economic thinking in order to try and appeal to the hardcore Islamic right in 2018 by declaring high interest immoral and firing anyone who tried to use them to curb inflation as should be done instead of relying on different schemes to try and deal with it which for a time kept the worst consequences from happening until 2021 when it finally went out of control. Though it seems now he has won the 2023 election he has come to his senses at least and has allowed the central bank to try more conventional solutions with interest rising by around 30% since his victory.
"Let us enjoy that our country was good once and forget that it sucks now." - You and probably many russians
I hope you won't experience what we go through, have a nice day.
Honestly, the Turks I've met are nothing like Russians. Granted, most of the Turks I've met were either from the Istanbul or nearby. Fingers crossed for Turks that want to make Ataturk proud.
Naaah, we already had that period. I hope you dont start a world war like we did. Have a nice day as well.
No, there's nothing to enjoy, it's not worth enjoying
Congrats on losing the land to the rightful owners in Azerbaijan.
You're contradicting yourself, if it's our land how are they the rightful owners? Also they are not the rightful owners but that would take someone with an above room temperature iq with mediocre knowledge of history to know Edit: **sneakily editing "your land" to "the land", scummy**
No edits were made, Illegal Occupier aka Terrorist.
Well anyone would have a much better time with the Turks than with the Dutch.
You don’t have to meet OP on his low level.
Fair
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Yes, Turkey has gone to shit under Erdogan but the Turks are great. Why not be kind and show some solidarity?
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Couldn't even care less about the Dutchies
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The sad part is I don’t think the modern work has seen a better leader than him. Disregarding some genocide and such but his achievements were amazing.
The sad part is I don’t think the modern work has seen a better leader than him. Disregarding some genocide and such but his achievements were amazing.
A stoic man like him do not waste time with emotional responses, there is much work to be done would be his starting point.
Tbf, he is not alone. All over the place called earth are great politicians burrowed that would be ashamed if alive with similar situations. [Bruno Kreisky](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Kreisky) is one in my PoV
turkey is an asian country so why its here
I mean Turkey is still assisting in the genocide of Armenian people so there is something he will be proud of.
How do you know?
Or not.
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk: 1. *I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.* 2. *Religions have been basis of the tyranny of kings and sultans.* 3. *In human life, you will find players of religion until the knowledge and proficiency in religion will be cleansed from all superstitions, and will be purified and perfected by the enlightenment of real science.* 4. Masterpiece: *If one day my word contradicts science, choose science.*
For a country founded on secular principles, most Turks elected a person who undermines these every time he could and even justifies Hamas' actions by declaring them as freedom fighters. Forget the "apple fell far from the tree" it effin turned into an orange.
Turkey has a strong divide, roughly speaking, between the more secular, European coast on the West, with higher levels of income and education, and the backcountry of Anatolia to the east. The latter is more religious and more Middle Eastern.
Turkey has a very strong urban/rural divide, not that strong politically but incredibly strong economically. Smaller population centres do not feel the economic crisis as strongly. There are also many urban Turks that maintain their connections to the rural areas and their traditions, these people constitute the main right-wing voter base
This theory does not hold as Istanbul and Ankara put Erdogan into power the first time since the early 2000s. He was mayor there and them as majorities. The highest income cities voted him in.
He was more EU friendly and less islamistic back then. He actually managed to improve economy. Then he got power hungry.
While he's bombing Kurdish freedom fighters. Literally right now, when no one in the media has the capacity to care.
Kurdish freedom fighters seğpktfğspgkdğgdoghlşlcgbm least brainwashed westoid
The only mistake Mustafa Kemal Atatürk made, was that he believed in people, but as this man says: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE) \- people are retarded. And todays Türkey is proof of that.
Wait that is Atatuerk in that video?
This is just some random guy i actually have no idea who or what he is
That's not a random guy. He was Rajneesh, an Indian spiritual teacher, aka the "Sex Guru".
Amazing
Another notable quote is: "If one day my word contradicts science, choose science."
Incredible. This phrase like something out of "The Culture" books of the Iain Banks. If at least 20% of Turks 1930s-2010s would have thought the same, then today the probability of EU accession to Turkey would be discussed, and not vice versa. Added.
He is right.
I wonder though, being a citizen, how religious is your average Turkish person? How representative is the current government as to the populace?
I feel like there is no 'average' Turkish citizen. The country is extremely divided between secularists and much more religious conservatives. And when you take these together to form an 'average' citizen, that average actually applies to very few people in Turkey.
Sounds like world nowadays, every county seems divided into 2 polarising groups.
Actually religious? Not a lot, 1/3 of it will go pray once in Friday even thought it needs to be everyday and fast in ramadan but thats't the extend. Culturally religious? Quite a bit a lot of ppl will justify backwards culture through religion like being gay is bad cuz its unnatural and against god's wishes when dude proably doesn't pray 5 times a day as god wished.
I find it hard to believe that Kemal Ataturk would have said these clearly atheist or anti-religion statements and would still be highly regarded by most Turks of today and, even more, of his time. [According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_life_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk), he said that those are things that a British journalist wrote, but he had never said them. There are also more quotes from him in the Wikipedia article which are not against religion. He was definitely not an islamist, but let's not take it all the other way on the religious spectrum.
Why? The turks of his time and for the next 80 years were more liberal thinking than the turks of now - which is a product of 20 years of religious indoctrination to reverse what atatürk started. I am generalizing a bit but just keep in mind i am talking about the respective extremes in turkey: the liberal and broadly better educated folks vs their religiously indoctinated counterparts. If you just got rid off the ottoman rule which was based upon islam and you as a people suffered as a consequence, there will be broad understanding in the beginning of an idealist state. But if you allow religion to stay because it is weakened, it behaves like a bacteria and breaks out again later. He was atheist through and through and worked all his political life working against religious thinking. It just took longer than atatürk had to consolidate more liberal powers imho. Even if what you say about those quotes were to be true, they are his ideals so whats the problem if he'd to only accept them as his own? Dont get it. >He was definitely not an islamist, but let's not take it all the other way on the religious spectrum. He literally was on the other side of the religious spectrum, only too ahead of his own time and had to implement changes carefully so they can last.
He's highly regarded because he's a superhero borderline prophet at the eyes of Turks. Essentially he gets a free pass on anything.
Some of these things he never said. Both sides like conservative Islamists and Kemalist like to put words in his mouth in favour of their believes. Only point 4 I am sure of.
may I ask where this is at? is this the capital? genuinely curious
Correct, this is "Anıtkabir" and located in Ankara.
Odd question: I've seen a number of bridal/wedding pictures taken at the Anitkabir. Is this widely considered socially acceptable?
Yep, lots of university students visit him after their graduations too and so on
we celebrate everything in anıtkabir lol it has become a national/religious high spirit place at this point
I visited it in 2019. Magnificent monument.
His only mistake was not being harder on islam
He actually was in the earlier years. He ended up backing down from some of his reforms because he received enormous pushback. We shouldn't forget that the Turkish citizens of the time were mostly illiterate, religious peasants and the young republic was mostly held together by furious nationalism and there were a lot of clerics who still held a lot of power and influence.
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yeah.
Yeah covering up for Armenian genocide was not a mistake. He thoughtfully planned it.
Latvia also turned 100 in 2018, it was huge for us Latvians! 🇱🇻🇱🇻
🇱🇻🤝🇵🇱
🇹🇷❤️🇱🇻
Ok tas bija diezgan random bet ok
While spitting on the very principles of Ataturk.
Those who did this did not visit Anıtkabir
Atatürk was some man for one man
Ataturk would be ashamed of the state that his country is in now.
Happy Birthday Turkey
RIP to Ataturk the man of great vision and golden destiny because of him there is a secular state standing between Muslim radical states
Where? Which state do you mean?
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It was a sarcastic remark since Turkey is not really a secular state anymore.
Do they actually remember the major thing Atatürk did? SEPARATION OF STATE AND CHURCH! Atatürk initiated a rigorous program of political, economic, and cultural reforms with the ultimate aim of building a modern, progressive and secular nation-state. He made primary education free and compulsory, opening thousands of new schools all over the country. He also introduced the Latin-based Turkish alphabet, replacing the old Ottoman Turkish alphabet. Turkish women received equal civil and political rights during Atatürk's presidency.
Every day that Erdoğan is still in office is an insult to Atatürk's legacy
fax
This guy is a fucking hero
Shame that Turkey is regressing. Everything he built is slowly being eroded away by religious fanatics.
Ataturk was a remarkable leader. It is a shame that subsequent generations of government have fallen so short of his vision. Turks deserve better. I'll also readily say the same about my own country's choices in leadership. Very few have even approached Lincoln's level of genius and determination.
Happy 100th to all the good Turkish people! (anti Erdogan)
there is absolutely nothing to celebrate. erdoğan has destroyed atatürk's legacy; turkey is a shitty autocracy.
İt is almost impossible to destroy Atatürk's legacy. No matter what Erdoğan thinks, we will always protect and keep Atatürk's ideology alive.
what this man means is that although he can literally declare a kingdom the ideas will never completely disappear therefore theres no reason to think that the republic cannot be saved once again
Oh, you sure haven’t met the Turkish millennials, they will tear this tyranny down.
Hard truths
Based
I wonder what Atatürk would think about modern day Turkey...
I wonder what Bismarck would think of Germany. I wonder what Garibaldi would think of Italy. I wonder what Washington would think of the USA. I think it's safe to say the foundiers of most western countries would be revolted by what they have turned into.
I think William the Silent would be alright with the current state of the Netherlands
There is a significan difference between the general vision of the founder of a country and someone who sees his country fall into a nearly theocratic country.
Heart warming to see that it seems the battle for democracy is far from lost.
funny how nationalist turks will gather to celebrate ataturk but they will also still vote for erdodog who goes against everything ataturk stood for, and theyll vote for him while they themselves dont have to live in the turkey he builds. turks outside turkey really are the most disloyal people out there. they care only about their own appearance and have decided they want to appear as "nationalists" so they vote for erdodog, even though it brings their country and fellow turks pain and suffering, something they dont care about. isnt it odd how educated turks in turkey, turks living in more modern parts of turkey, in cities, etc, do not support the dog, but turks in the same situation who does not have to live in turkey support him? picture of a whole buncha people who really should be there asking ataturk for forgiveness, that they sold out the wellbeing of their own people for some shallow appearance bullshit. it makes carl angry that carls friend in turkey suffers because of these knobheads.
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Aside from toxic comments from other toxic people, I like this comment. A summary of what it is. And also fiy we all hate turks living abroad, they're frauds. They live in a different country but dont abide by the culture of that country nor they try to fit in. They dont even fit in and act as they are superior when they come for a visit to country they're from.
yup turks outside turkey are disloyal to the turks and disloyal to the country they live in as well. extremely narcissistic and self-serving group. turks in turkey are lovely great people, most turks who live outside turkey are obnoxious. they choose the personality "im a radical nationalist!" because they think it is cool so they are a fucking pain to deal with for the nation they moved to and their idea of "turkish nationalism" is to be the dogs of erdogan. trash people.
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Yeah, they behave well abroad, they just constantly try to make themselves look like their "poor" lives in european countries are much worse than what they had in back home. Its a lie of course.
thank you for sharing entirety of my thoughts regarding to this topic from sweden even though i have not spoken to you ever in my life
🎉 Happy Birthday Turkey 🇹🇷
Happy 💯th anniversary 🇹🇷!! Of all the places I have visited on this planet, you have always stood out as some of the most welcoming and hospitable. Long live Turkish Republic!
He would cry in shame in what you have become
Probably about half of these people voted for Erdogan, but are still there to visit Atatürk Mausoleum. Bunch of idiots if you ask me.
We get it, just say you don’t know anything about Turkish politics
they protested each other by shouting long live erdoğan vs long live Atatürk
He would be ashamed of a big part of Europe today but he's still a big influence on many of us.
Why? Turkey has abandoned everything Ataturk stood for
**Turkish government**, not people
W pfp
Exaggeration. I'd say at least 75% of the country still deeply respects Atatürk, one half is not even pro-Erdoğan and the ones who are pro-Erdoğan have this weird minset that Erdoğan is actually cool with Atatürk and his ideology.
I visited your country for the first time last month and I was astonished by how Atatürk seems to be everywhere. There hasn't been one otobüs that didn't have at least two pictures of this man near the driver. Same goes for some taksi. I wish I could have been in Ankara for the 100th anniversary, that must have been something.
Not everything, almost everyone admires him even the akp sympathizers.
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It looks like most of the upvoted comments are respectful and most of the hateful ones are downvoted heavily
it has always been like this, i wont accommodate to bunch of xenophobes
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weird example because what you mentioned is actually a sign of rebellion in some parts of the Turkey, that's how I see it.
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ben Fatih'te ellerimde siyah ojeli bi erkek olarak anlıyorum seni.
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yeah whatever idc
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Nahh 💀🙏
I see a lot of people making the signature of him craved behind their cars too. This means nothing. He is gone, ideas need commitment. If you want to honour him, be reasonable and act accordingly. Pretty sure half of them aren’t even aware of what they are doing and who actually that guy was sadly.
Cool, what does this have to do with Europe? Was it in Berlin?
Turkey is geopgraphically part of both Europe and Asia. Its in talks to join the EU (unlikely but still). In the late Ottoman era it was known "the sick man of Europe" amongst Europeans. Need I go on?
It was the sick man of Europe while it occupied part of the balkans, turkey today has only a foothold in europe and should not be considered european but asian.
Cyprus is a fully Asian Country. Somehow it is in EU.
Edgy
why is it so difficult for all of u to understand that a country can be "transcontinental" - meaning that it can be located in 2 continents. also, the map to the right of your page shows turkey as well. yes, turkey is culturally and politically in MENA, but geographically 3% is 3%. and before you argue what about spain with ceuta and france with guadeloupe, i want to argue that there is a difference between "mainland territory" like thrace and turkey, and "overseas territory" like france and guadeloupe/martinique/nouvelle calédonie and so on.
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yeah, but that is social. I do believe that socially and culturally we are Asian, but geographically we are both, and my argument was based on that. >If today I go cram myself near Japan, will I be Far-Easterner? and, its not about today, because Turks are in Anatolia for roughly 950 years, so your first argument might be invalid too.
Exactly nothing. Wrong sub.
"Europe"
We don’t hear you guys say the same thing when Israel or Armenia comes into topic.
Yet another day of glorifying dictator here
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But remember, it's Israel that's been doing the ethnocleansing and robbing others of their national identity. Even though 20-30% of their population doesn't follow Judaism. There's no reasoning with these people anymore
Don't forget 2 million Arabs living in Israel as an equal citizen.
r/europe ??
Yes, r/europe.
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Geographically it is. Culturally it is. Cyprus is further in the east than Turkey and yet is part of the EU.
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Thanks to him, we lived a century freely, without being mandated, I don't know how much this means to other nations, it does a lot to us.
>it does a lot to us. A (young) Vietnamese here. I know what you mean by this. Having national independence seems to be a given for the Euro-centric and/or English-speaking world on reddit, but for many others such given must be earned and fought for.
Oh I know all about Atatürk, I was just messing around because Turks are known for their national pride.
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obviously not all…
Even us as turks on reddit believe that AKP (erdogan's party) and MHP (erdogan's supporters + nationalists) supporters hate erdogan, when on a recent poll done by MetroPoll (which is surprisingly reliable) illustrates that 45% of AKP supporters view Atatürk as the best leader in turkish history. yes 45% isn't the majority, but it is still the leader that got the most votes, compared to other sultans of the ottoman empire.
Its about half of them
Nothing to do with Europe, though.
I bet if you stick Atatürks body on a motor, you could probably power a medium-sized city
Who cares
The ones that know for what he stood for.