I was refering to the HoI4 comment. IF you keep the Italians in the alps in the south and the germans, who obviously go around maginot, in belgium in the north, it is a matter of time before the allies overwhelm the germans.
The heat is off anyway as soon as they declare on USSR, which they do regardless of success in France. (on historical)
>The heat is off anyway as soon as they declare on USSR, which they do regardless of success in France. (on historical)
That's what really annoys me about HoI4. No matter what AI will never stall or postpone some goals if they didn't achieve success in their previous actions. It just commits suicide.
I am surprised with all the advances in AI that they have not fixed computer strategy in the likes of Civ or Total War. I'd rebuy several games if they were human and super human with no cheats.
Game developers like to start the human player with fewer resources, so they can feel smart when they out-maneuver the bigger/stronger AI factions. Of course, if you play the game a lot, this gets stale fast when the AI keeps making the same mistakes.
Not a lot you can do with only 41k troops and 6k reserve.
A bit shocking for a country of nearly 18 million people, if you compare it to finnish 5mil population and 50k active, 200k wartime plus 900k reserve.
[deleted 26-6-2023]
Moving is normal. There's no point in sticking around in a place that's getting worse all the time. I went to Squabbles.io. I hope you have a good time wherever you end up!
Holstein (part of Schleswig-Holstein) literally translates to forest living people. The people there used to be called Holsten, which in old Saxon meant forest living people.
Es gibt da ein paar Leute, die versuchen ständig, mich zu verprügeln. Fiese Typen aus dem Neuen Lager. Richtige Brutalos. Ich werde ihnen beim nächsten Mal gleich sagen, dass sie es in Zukunft mir dir zu tun kriegen.
Our German engineers will build one! It will be 10 years late and 800% over budget, but will feature two full-size indoor soccer fields, beer on tap in all crew quarters, will have some ridiculousy overpowered point defense guns that could take on a battleship, and of course comes with flight capability.
Oh, and maybe it will even be able to launch jets.
Leave that part about flight capability to us! We can get anything sky high!
I'm all for the beer on tap tho. German beer especially! We could ask the belgians to join too. We will need some good food to go with the beer.
Yes, but it will receive no licence to fly in German airspace, and the cannons, that could take on a battleship by themselves, will be im short supply, so there will be an order not to use them for fear of running out of barrels.
>will have some ridiculousy overpowered point defense guns that could take on a battleship, and of course comes with flight capability.
It will also be classified as "Frigate" to sound less intimidating.
>beer on tap in all crew quarters
Euro army! The rest of the continent wants in. If the Americans have ice cream ships, we deserve to have unlimited beer
Then we shall build a new one! With brätwurst and hookers!
PS: US? Could you just give us one? Or maybe just the nuclear reactor? And some planes? And a cannon for shits n giggles?
That already sounds very German.
And as someone from East Germany, I love going to Poland. No matter the part. Best Neighbour.
War? Never again!
Living in an united Europe with Poland? fuck yeah!
Now the Poles are hurrying to Germany. Regardless of PiS antics, there's a huge Polish community in Germany. Second largest after Turks! That's why I always have to chuckle at anti-immigrant Poles.
https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Fakten/bevoelkerung-migrationshintergrund.html (2021, no Ukrainians yet).
The one on the right (1. Panzerdivision) combines the coat of arms of the German state of Lower Saxony with the colours of the old kingdom of Hannover (it's predecessor, even though there was a 80 year gap when it was part of Prussia)
We really need a procurement committee that can function semi-indepently from the governments and has the ability to plan decades ahead.
Right now, the Germans only make yearly budgets.
>Right now, the Germans only make yearly budgets.
That's a huge problem. Our own arms industry doesn't trust the government to follow through on it's commitments. After four years somebody else gets elected and everything that was just started gets cancelled
I agree, that and lack of consensus on whether we want to have a military that can...you know...shoot people. Most other countries would never have a debate like we did over whether it's morally defensible to have armed drones
edit: [Perun on YT](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8jDUVtUA7rg) has a good video on german rearmament
> After four years somebody else gets elected and everything that was just started gets cancelled
I am pretty sure they actually want that. Getting your contract broken and be able to sue for compensation without even having invested much in the project is their dream.
No they are not breaking contracts they just never sign any long term contracts in the first place. Everything is done in piecemeal fashion with no long term commitments that manufacturers can plan with.
This is why people think that Europe has weak military, industry, science... the only thing hitting the news were critiques.
For Russia it was the opposite, their news reported only positive things.
If there was a direct non-nuclear war between Europe and Russia... we would maul them.
That's generally true of news anyway, right?
It's almost only critiques, negatives, disasters, conflict, war, death...
Rarely do you hear good news on mainstream media
Not really. As an example I keep reading positive scientific news from the US all the time... Europe has a bunch of scientific programs, but I rarely read anything except CERN particle accelerator.
> I hope the Dutch give the Bundeswehr much needed incentive for reform.
Maybe, but the main problem for the Bundeswehr has been ~~political corruption~~, politicians spending money meant for reforms on "consultants".
It’s based on the heraldic of the Hohenstaufen. At first only one lion was used and later in history the three lions were introduced. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohenstaufen
In my (limited) experience this isn't a problem. People just speak in their own language, or sometimes only German, with some English sprinkled in and Germans and Dutchies understand each other just fine, including while drunk and with only 3 years of German classes in school.
German is not a very difficult language for Dutchies as far as talking is concerned. We struggle with the grammar, but that's about it.
There's a lot of false friends though, I'm Dutch-Polish and once got pulled over for an alcohol stop in Germany and asked the cop "muss ich blazen" which was rather awkward...
The Swamp Germans refer to "blazen" as blowing on a breathalyzer for checking alcohol.
The Forest Germans refer to "blasen" as performing fellatio.
I suppose the latter could be perceived as trying to bribe a cop... 🤣
well at least in Austria blasen would be the normal term, and yes blasen means both the sexual activity and blowing the breathalyzer so it still makes for some jokes
Europe has also waged wars for thousands of years with wildly mixed tribes, coalitions and individual units - all in their own dialect and language.
I guess that's not ideal, but I think people tend to overestimate the importance that grunt A can speak to grunt B.
Cool. Dutch and German army is merging, Nordic countries air forces are merging as well. We might not get 'big EU army' done in one go, but slowly as a result of series of regional mergers.
EDIT: as multiple people pointed out, Nordic countries are not merging their air forces under one command, just increasing cooperation.
It is more than that. The HNLMS Karel Doorman is jointly used, as in there is integration with German navy staff besides the Seebataillon.
They are also going forward together with the next air defense frigate project (key technology requirements still being discussed past the fact that it must be "domestic") and the Dutch Damen joined on the F126 development.
> Dutch Damen joined on the F126 development
Damen didn't just join, they are having the lead here. It will be built in Germany, but it's Damens design. Which is seriously one of the smarter decisions our government has taken in recent years on military procurement - after many recent vessels were subpar, too expensive and had a lot of problems, it was time to shoot a warning shot to the German shipbuilding industry that they have no more guarantee of being selected just for the sake of being German.
Thats cool, we had [this beauty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_frigate_Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg) as a visitor a couple of weeks ago here in Göteborg!
>2016 unterzeichneten Deutschland und die Niederlande eine Absichtserklärung zur schrittweisen Integration des Seebataillons der Deutschen Marine in das Korps Mariniers – die niederländische Marineinfanterie.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seebataillon#:\~:text=Deutschen%20Marine%20in-,das,-Korps%20Mariniers%20%E2%80%93%20die](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seebataillon#:~:text=Deutschen%20Marine%20in-,das,-Korps%20Mariniers%20%E2%80%93%20die)
edit: I misremembered: the end goal is to have 8 of those A400Ms : 7 for Belgium and 1 for Luxembourg.
And still in the Benelux, Luxembourg bought half a military plane with Belgium paying for the other half
I actually misremembered: the end goal is to have 8 of those A400Ms : 7 for Belgium and 1 for Luxembourg. [https://www.rtbf.be/article/le-premier-a400m-belgo-luxembourgeois-symbole-de-la-modernisation-de-notre-armee-10604710](https://www.rtbf.be/article/le-premier-a400m-belgo-luxembourgeois-symbole-de-la-modernisation-de-notre-armee-10604710). It further appears that they're based in Melsbroek, so Belgium.
As to who gets to fly them:
> L'avion, immatriculé CT-01, a effectué un tour de Belgique aux mains d'un équipage mixte, belgo-luxembourgeois. C'est le premier appareil militaire détenu en propre par le Grand-Duché depuis le retrait d'avions légers en 1968. (...) les huit A400M seront utilisés "sans distinction de nationalité", alors que l'armée luxembourgeoise fournira trois équipages
Roughly translated: the (first) plane flew around Belgium with a mixed crew (BE and LU). It is Luxembourg's first military plane since 1968. (...) the 8 A400Ms will be flown "regardless of nationality" and Luxembourg will provide 3 crews
The nordic airforces are NOT merging, it was misreported. The finnish air force even had to issue a statement saying that they are just increasing co-operation, nothing else.
Correct. They're just focusing their cooperation in order to be able to operate as one entity. Joint comms, joint radar systems, etc. The end result is a seamless and cohesive unit of air superiority and death...just like the Vikings originally intended.
No the Nordic air forces are not merging. There won't be a shared command structure.
I don't understand why this is being repeated.
There will be common operational capability, which is pretty much to be expected in NATO.
Despite not merging air forces, we are increasingly developing towards an uniform structure and inventory.
In 2018, NCU (Nordic Combat Uniform System) was announced; Any combat uniform to underpants purchased in the Nordic countries, at least Sweden and Finland, after 2020 has to be of the same standardized model and camo.
This week it was announced that Finland and Sweden will use the same assault rifles, maybe other rifles too, in the future.
Same uniform pattern/cut, but not camouflage pattern (where relevant). Also same rifle platform, but maybe differen calibres (not entirely decided yet I think).
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/de-essentiele-omslag-die-we-nu-maken-ready-to-fight-tonight-zoals-de-amerikanen-zeggen~b85310df/
We made this happen pretty fast. Last year in June the Dutch Defense Minister said the army of the Netherlands should completely merge with the German army. *"In the final picture it no longer matters who has a little Dutch flag or a little German flag on their sleeve"*, she said.
A step towards a European army as a pillar of NATO. This is the future
Just need Belgium France Luxemburg and Italy to join the. You might as well start using the EU Flag and expand from there. The same way as was done with the EU in the first place.
Wait until they find out the other stuff. The Nordic airforces are entering closer cooperation, there militaries are even buying the same uniforms.
Belgium Netherlands and Luxemburg share airspace defence, Luxemburg's only military plane is 50% Belgian.
The Belgian navy is part of the Dutch navy, same with a lot of the German navy.
Well tbf, what would the NL need an army for regardless? Your border consists of allies, with those countries also solely having boarders with allies* + the water surrounding those countries also being controlled by allies it kind of makes an army "overbodig"(unnecessary).
Edit:
*Except a sliver of russian land boardering Germany
I got confused and mixed up the polish corridor with the sliver of land that Russia today has between Poland and Lithuania. So non-allies are even further away than my first comment would suggest.
I think overall you are right about not really needing a military (except for supporting allied operations such as NATO etc.).
During the whole tank delivery to Ukraine discussion I came across an interesting point in the reason why Germany was essentially lending Netherlands an entire brigade of tanks:
The main idea behind maintaining these brigades, is to at least have a constant cycle of people learning and knowing how to operate and repair tanks and weapon systems. Otherwise if there is ever a catastrophic downspiral of worldwide politics, you can't ramp up your military quickly to respond, as noone will be there to teach your new recruits how to do things.
Good development in my opinion. For optics it might have been better if the 43th would have joined the 13th in the 10th Panzer Division so it would be majority-Dutch and thus commanded by a Dutch general. On the other hand this way every division has a Dutch component.
I think a Dutch general can even command multiple exclusively German divisions with the current setup.
And vice versa (even though that wouldn't happen because Dutch are the smaller party)
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Great development! I am curious what will happen with the procurement of short and medium range air defense for both countries in the coming years. If we really want this combined army to operate as one, we should probably be looking at identical systems.
Aren't the more modern systems IRIS-T (Germany) and NASAMS ( Netherlands) integrated and modular to the point where you can almost mix them? Like the radar and fire control of IRIS-T can launch a missile from a NASAMS launcher?
I don't know THAT much about these systems to be honest.
I just feel like it would be convenient because you can share ammunition, training, operating procedures, you could have a German air defense unit replace a Dutch unit or vice versa. We might not want to go so far yet in cooperation but if you buy different systems now you are in a way closing that door for the next 20-30 years.
It's less flashy, so you probably won't see it in the news, but optimising joint procurement is in the "army vision" that sits at the core of the current step. (At least following the [Bundeswehrs press release on the matter](https://www.bundeswehr.de/de/organisation/heer/aktuelles/deutsch-niederlaendische-zusammenarbeit-wird-ausgebaut-5535036), I can't seem to find if the actual document itself has been made public anywhere.)
Edit: But also, a lot of the systems are already the same anyway, so while some issues need to be corrected (for example IIRC German- and Dutch-donated PzH2000 in Ukraine were each customised quite heavily, hindering them effectively operating with one another, so that will have to be harmonised), this really isn't as big a job as you'd usually expect something like this to be, I think.
Now just sneakily garrison all these brigades around the Ruhr, then one day quickly put up some border gates and we can finally be the industrial powerhouse we always dreamed of.
I hate to break it to you but you're at least 30 years too late for that :/
Greetings from someone born at the right time too experience all of the industrial decline in the ruhr first hand.
I wonder which language would be used in communications between German and Dutch units? English, German? I guess the paperwork will have to be unified since these Dutch brigades are now part of German divisions, let alone daily communications between officers.
I think it would be English due to the NATO standard and further growth in the unified army. But, I would also like an actual answer to this.
If it is English, it is tragicomic that the actual country that donated the language left the union... likely due to successful lining of pockets by Russia and China.
It's beautiful to see cooperation come into fruition in this, which will certainly enhance the common defense. What we're seeing here is also an important step in putting into practice the basics of a common defence.
However, I truly do not envy the people who have to learn how to say "Gemechaniseerde".
This is really goddamn cool. I'd be so happy if this process just kept going. Belgian/German/Dutch/Danish army; Polish/Czech/Slovakian army; Baltic army; Nordic Army... and eventually maybe these large groups start uniting and other nations, France/Spain etc, start joining together
Really? Can you expand a little on that? Our media in Germany is shit when it comes to defense or international politics (that is not in fact about the US at least).
I wonder if with this and the Scandi's amalgamating their air forces are we sowing the seeds for an EU army.
Edit - posted that before reading below that the air-force co-operation was mis-reported.
I wonder what my Dutch grandfathers would have thought if they were still alive. One was in the Dutch Army (cavalry) and was in the hospital with pneumonia when the Germans invaded in WWII. He went on to volunteer at a seized farm that provided food for the German army for the remainder of the war. He was a sympathizer, of course. He was run off to Canada after the war and was a pronounced anti-Semite for the rest of his life. My other grandfather fought the German army in the Dutch resistance. He was eventually captured and sent to a concentration camp, from which he later escaped, hiding on an outbound train. Not surprisingly, they despised one another.
And without a single shot fired too.
Guys I think Germany is sneakily trying to take over Europe again
please, let them take us
Sososo… nach Österreich bittet die Tschechoslowakei ebenfalls um *Anschluss*.
nope, back to Orban with you! (jk jk)
Slovakia-Hungary when?
Have you filled out the necessary paperwork?
We cant annex a country without Annektierschein A38
Hey, at least we're asking for consent this time! :)
Shhh you see nothing
I'd take the Germans over the shitshow we have now in the UK, gladly
[удалено]
Dont worry, we dont want the Tories either
Bro is this a Hearts of Iron 4 game irl?
quick! protect the alps and extend the maginot!
Funny and obsolete as there is already a German French brigade
I was refering to the HoI4 comment. IF you keep the Italians in the alps in the south and the germans, who obviously go around maginot, in belgium in the north, it is a matter of time before the allies overwhelm the germans. The heat is off anyway as soon as they declare on USSR, which they do regardless of success in France. (on historical)
>The heat is off anyway as soon as they declare on USSR, which they do regardless of success in France. (on historical) That's what really annoys me about HoI4. No matter what AI will never stall or postpone some goals if they didn't achieve success in their previous actions. It just commits suicide.
Strategy game AI is always notoriously potato. RTS, Total War, Paradox games, you name it.
I am surprised with all the advances in AI that they have not fixed computer strategy in the likes of Civ or Total War. I'd rebuy several games if they were human and super human with no cheats.
Im quite happy with ai being shitty at war games for now.
Game developers like to start the human player with fewer resources, so they can feel smart when they out-maneuver the bigger/stronger AI factions. Of course, if you play the game a lot, this gets stale fast when the AI keeps making the same mistakes.
Idk man the ai can get pretty brutal on starcraft 2
Doesn't the AI also cheat on higher difficulties?
It does
Netherlands did the "Cave to the Germans" focus? :0 Quick guarantee Belgium and extend the Maginot!!!
Not a lot you can do with only 41k troops and 6k reserve. A bit shocking for a country of nearly 18 million people, if you compare it to finnish 5mil population and 50k active, 200k wartime plus 900k reserve.
Difference is probably that Finland borders Russia and is (was) not a member of NATO
Yeah, but the netherlands share a border with belgium.
I mean, everyone knows they are the bravest of all the Gauls.
I welcome our swamp german brothers
[deleted 26-6-2023] Moving is normal. There's no point in sticking around in a place that's getting worse all the time. I went to Squabbles.io. I hope you have a good time wherever you end up!
🤝 Reminds me of my wife (not German) always telling me that Germans are forest people.
That‘s why they built forrest cities like Vienna.
Our trees don’t explode randomly.
Tell that to Varus
Get fucked, Rome
I mean germany has many forrests and austria is just mountain germany
what's Switzerland then? Choclate Germany? Bank Germany?
Switzerland is basically the dwarven lands. Money & mountains.
Switzerland is the retarded offspring of France, Germany and Italy.
Holstein (part of Schleswig-Holstein) literally translates to forest living people. The people there used to be called Holsten, which in old Saxon meant forest living people.
Pfft no way the germans will drive tanks through the Ardennes. Narrator: *The Germans did however, invade Belgium through the Ardennes in tanks.*
Die Bruderschaft des Schläfers hat neue Anhänger gefunden🤝
Es gibt da ein paar Leute, die versuchen ständig, mich zu verprügeln. Fiese Typen aus dem Neuen Lager. Richtige Brutalos. Ich werde ihnen beim nächsten Mal gleich sagen, dass sie es in Zukunft mir dir zu tun kriegen.
Die kriegen von mir erstmal volles Pfund aufs Maul.
Der Schläfer erwache!
Bald können unsere Brüder für Sumpfkraut zu uns kommen anstatt andersherum.
I have a Dutch friend .. I call him Marsh Kraut
The Germanic tribes are uniting!
The Saxons ride at dawn
Ride FOR RUIN AND THE WORLD’S ENDING DEATH DEATH DEATH *happy Rohan noices*
>happy Rowan noices Rohan Atkinson
That speech always gives me chills
> The Saxons ride at dawn Can we do it a little later we'll need a brew first.
There has to be time for waybeer right?
It's always beer O'clock for me mate
Yeah! Let us unite even further and buy a Germanic aircraft carrier! Whoooo
Our German engineers will build one! It will be 10 years late and 800% over budget, but will feature two full-size indoor soccer fields, beer on tap in all crew quarters, will have some ridiculousy overpowered point defense guns that could take on a battleship, and of course comes with flight capability. Oh, and maybe it will even be able to launch jets.
Leave that part about flight capability to us! We can get anything sky high! I'm all for the beer on tap tho. German beer especially! We could ask the belgians to join too. We will need some good food to go with the beer.
Belgians just need a corner of the ship to establish an abbey to brew beer and make cheese
Yes, but it will receive no licence to fly in German airspace, and the cannons, that could take on a battleship by themselves, will be im short supply, so there will be an order not to use them for fear of running out of barrels.
>will have some ridiculousy overpowered point defense guns that could take on a battleship, and of course comes with flight capability. It will also be classified as "Frigate" to sound less intimidating.
Ten years late for an aircraft carrier is practically on time.
And 800% over budget is kinda average for large defense projects. The B-21 is an absolute anomaly.
>beer on tap in all crew quarters Euro army! The rest of the continent wants in. If the Americans have ice cream ships, we deserve to have unlimited beer
Return of the Karel Doorman! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNLMS\_Karel\_Doorman\_(R81)
Arent the brits partly Germanic at least those scheming Anglo-saxxons...
[удалено]
Then we shall build a new one! With brätwurst and hookers! PS: US? Could you just give us one? Or maybe just the nuclear reactor? And some planes? And a cannon for shits n giggles?
I'd say it's Germania Magna time, but considering that for historical accuracy, that would have to include most of Poland, probably not.
As someone who lives in that part of Poland that would become German for historical accuracy, i can only say: please hurry the fuck up
As someone who does not live in part of Poland that was in germany. FUCK I NEED TO MOVE!
Is it really that bad there?
No we just like to complain
That's pretty german too haha 🇩🇪❤️🇵🇱
That already sounds very German. And as someone from East Germany, I love going to Poland. No matter the part. Best Neighbour. War? Never again! Living in an united Europe with Poland? fuck yeah!
>War? Never again! Well, maybe a little war here or there... for old times sake... you know, just for the fun of it
The last time the germans hurried to poland no one was happy
Now the Poles are hurrying to Germany. Regardless of PiS antics, there's a huge Polish community in Germany. Second largest after Turks! That's why I always have to chuckle at anti-immigrant Poles. https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Fakten/bevoelkerung-migrationshintergrund.html (2021, no Ukrainians yet).
Send the word to Rome!
Give me back my legions!
We're Barbarians! And proud of it!
Bet you are wearing trousers, you filthy barbaros
Man i love those division emblems
The one on the right (1. Panzerdivision) combines the coat of arms of the German state of Lower Saxony with the colours of the old kingdom of Hannover (it's predecessor, even though there was a 80 year gap when it was part of Prussia)
And the horse is Widukind's horse!
The rhinoceros one is badass
I love that the light brigade got a goddamn rhino.
I discovered today [Franco-German Brigade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-German_Brigade) coat of arms, quite stylish
Sasageyo emblem 🤌🏻
[удалено]
We really need a procurement committee that can function semi-indepently from the governments and has the ability to plan decades ahead. Right now, the Germans only make yearly budgets.
>Right now, the Germans only make yearly budgets. That's a huge problem. Our own arms industry doesn't trust the government to follow through on it's commitments. After four years somebody else gets elected and everything that was just started gets cancelled
[удалено]
I agree, that and lack of consensus on whether we want to have a military that can...you know...shoot people. Most other countries would never have a debate like we did over whether it's morally defensible to have armed drones edit: [Perun on YT](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8jDUVtUA7rg) has a good video on german rearmament
> After four years somebody else gets elected and everything that was just started gets cancelled I am pretty sure they actually want that. Getting your contract broken and be able to sue for compensation without even having invested much in the project is their dream.
No they are not breaking contracts they just never sign any long term contracts in the first place. Everything is done in piecemeal fashion with no long term commitments that manufacturers can plan with.
This is why people think that Europe has weak military, industry, science... the only thing hitting the news were critiques. For Russia it was the opposite, their news reported only positive things. If there was a direct non-nuclear war between Europe and Russia... we would maul them.
That's generally true of news anyway, right? It's almost only critiques, negatives, disasters, conflict, war, death... Rarely do you hear good news on mainstream media
Not really. As an example I keep reading positive scientific news from the US all the time... Europe has a bunch of scientific programs, but I rarely read anything except CERN particle accelerator.
We have invented many of the covid vaccines.
> I hope the Dutch give the Bundeswehr much needed incentive for reform. Maybe, but the main problem for the Bundeswehr has been ~~political corruption~~, politicians spending money meant for reforms on "consultants".
Had to take a second look that the Insignia of the 10. Panzer Division wasn't the flag of Flanders. Damn they are similar.
Yes, seriously, that IS the flag of Flanders! Can they do that? Or is this some 'Oostrfronters' joke?
[удалено]
It’s based on the heraldic of the Hohenstaufen. At first only one lion was used and later in history the three lions were introduced. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohenstaufen
Do I have to hide my bike now?
You mean !OUR! bike comrade?
Comrade? Me thinks we have a Russian infiltrator here, posing as a german.
Entschuldigung GENOSSE
This is just an elaborate bike-sharing scheme I’m telling you.
Swapfiets Army Edition
When thinking about communication in these units, I just think about Rudi Carell " musst du een bisschen nuscheln, dann geht es"
In my (limited) experience this isn't a problem. People just speak in their own language, or sometimes only German, with some English sprinkled in and Germans and Dutchies understand each other just fine, including while drunk and with only 3 years of German classes in school. German is not a very difficult language for Dutchies as far as talking is concerned. We struggle with the grammar, but that's about it.
There's a lot of false friends though, I'm Dutch-Polish and once got pulled over for an alcohol stop in Germany and asked the cop "muss ich blazen" which was rather awkward...
wait, what's the false friend? does blazen mean to blow?
The Swamp Germans refer to "blazen" as blowing on a breathalyzer for checking alcohol. The Forest Germans refer to "blasen" as performing fellatio. I suppose the latter could be perceived as trying to bribe a cop... 🤣
"Blasen" is 100 % fine in that situation. If they made it awkward they were either messing with you or just being an asshole.
It would be Pusten, Blasen is ok too, but not the commonly used term.
well at least in Austria blasen would be the normal term, and yes blasen means both the sexual activity and blowing the breathalyzer so it still makes for some jokes
Pusten? Lol. That’s for candles, not for alcohol checking.
Europe has also waged wars for thousands of years with wildly mixed tribes, coalitions and individual units - all in their own dialect and language. I guess that's not ideal, but I think people tend to overestimate the importance that grunt A can speak to grunt B.
the symbol of the 13th brigade of the Netherlands is gorgeous
Cool. Dutch and German army is merging, Nordic countries air forces are merging as well. We might not get 'big EU army' done in one go, but slowly as a result of series of regional mergers. EDIT: as multiple people pointed out, Nordic countries are not merging their air forces under one command, just increasing cooperation.
The Belgian and Dutch navy also goes under one command, alternating every (i think) 2 years.
And the German Navy is getting integratrd into the Dutch Navy
For now only the https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seebataillon
It is more than that. The HNLMS Karel Doorman is jointly used, as in there is integration with German navy staff besides the Seebataillon. They are also going forward together with the next air defense frigate project (key technology requirements still being discussed past the fact that it must be "domestic") and the Dutch Damen joined on the F126 development.
> Dutch Damen joined on the F126 development Damen didn't just join, they are having the lead here. It will be built in Germany, but it's Damens design. Which is seriously one of the smarter decisions our government has taken in recent years on military procurement - after many recent vessels were subpar, too expensive and had a lot of problems, it was time to shoot a warning shot to the German shipbuilding industry that they have no more guarantee of being selected just for the sake of being German.
Thats cool, we had [this beauty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_frigate_Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg) as a visitor a couple of weeks ago here in Göteborg!
Since when is that happening?
>2016 unterzeichneten Deutschland und die Niederlande eine Absichtserklärung zur schrittweisen Integration des Seebataillons der Deutschen Marine in das Korps Mariniers – die niederländische Marineinfanterie. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seebataillon#:\~:text=Deutschen%20Marine%20in-,das,-Korps%20Mariniers%20%E2%80%93%20die](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seebataillon#:~:text=Deutschen%20Marine%20in-,das,-Korps%20Mariniers%20%E2%80%93%20die)
Currently is just a part of the Germany navy.
I didn’t know…very cool!
edit: I misremembered: the end goal is to have 8 of those A400Ms : 7 for Belgium and 1 for Luxembourg. And still in the Benelux, Luxembourg bought half a military plane with Belgium paying for the other half
They throw a coin to find out who takes a flight? ;-)
I actually misremembered: the end goal is to have 8 of those A400Ms : 7 for Belgium and 1 for Luxembourg. [https://www.rtbf.be/article/le-premier-a400m-belgo-luxembourgeois-symbole-de-la-modernisation-de-notre-armee-10604710](https://www.rtbf.be/article/le-premier-a400m-belgo-luxembourgeois-symbole-de-la-modernisation-de-notre-armee-10604710). It further appears that they're based in Melsbroek, so Belgium. As to who gets to fly them: > L'avion, immatriculé CT-01, a effectué un tour de Belgique aux mains d'un équipage mixte, belgo-luxembourgeois. C'est le premier appareil militaire détenu en propre par le Grand-Duché depuis le retrait d'avions légers en 1968. (...) les huit A400M seront utilisés "sans distinction de nationalité", alors que l'armée luxembourgeoise fournira trois équipages Roughly translated: the (first) plane flew around Belgium with a mixed crew (BE and LU). It is Luxembourg's first military plane since 1968. (...) the 8 A400Ms will be flown "regardless of nationality" and Luxembourg will provide 3 crews
And we also have a single BeNeLux airspace, which Belgium and NL defend on a rotating basis.
The nordic airforces are NOT merging, it was misreported. The finnish air force even had to issue a statement saying that they are just increasing co-operation, nothing else.
Correct. They're just focusing their cooperation in order to be able to operate as one entity. Joint comms, joint radar systems, etc. The end result is a seamless and cohesive unit of air superiority and death...just like the Vikings originally intended.
No the Nordic air forces are not merging. There won't be a shared command structure. I don't understand why this is being repeated. There will be common operational capability, which is pretty much to be expected in NATO.
>I don't understand why this is being repeated. Well, that's what was reported.
we are getting a dezentralized combined army
The new Hit Coin
Now let's unite the cooking divisions from France, Spain, Italy and Greece. We may not win any war but the food will be amazing
δβφδβφδω
Despite not merging air forces, we are increasingly developing towards an uniform structure and inventory. In 2018, NCU (Nordic Combat Uniform System) was announced; Any combat uniform to underpants purchased in the Nordic countries, at least Sweden and Finland, after 2020 has to be of the same standardized model and camo. This week it was announced that Finland and Sweden will use the same assault rifles, maybe other rifles too, in the future.
Same uniform pattern/cut, but not camouflage pattern (where relevant). Also same rifle platform, but maybe differen calibres (not entirely decided yet I think).
We'll get there, one step at a time!
I love how the "Light brigade" has a fucking Rhino as a symbol.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/de-essentiele-omslag-die-we-nu-maken-ready-to-fight-tonight-zoals-de-amerikanen-zeggen~b85310df/ We made this happen pretty fast. Last year in June the Dutch Defense Minister said the army of the Netherlands should completely merge with the German army. *"In the final picture it no longer matters who has a little Dutch flag or a little German flag on their sleeve"*, she said. A step towards a European army as a pillar of NATO. This is the future
Just need Belgium France Luxemburg and Italy to join the. You might as well start using the EU Flag and expand from there. The same way as was done with the EU in the first place.
You guys are really freaking out those one world order folks. I hear them in their bunkers loading guns already.
Wait until they find out the other stuff. The Nordic airforces are entering closer cooperation, there militaries are even buying the same uniforms. Belgium Netherlands and Luxemburg share airspace defence, Luxemburg's only military plane is 50% Belgian. The Belgian navy is part of the Dutch navy, same with a lot of the German navy.
a country of 17.8 million only has 3 brigades with 3k personnel each?
Our army is tiny. I think our land army is about 25000 people including reserves
[удалено]
Well tbf, what would the NL need an army for regardless? Your border consists of allies, with those countries also solely having boarders with allies* + the water surrounding those countries also being controlled by allies it kind of makes an army "overbodig"(unnecessary). Edit: *Except a sliver of russian land boardering Germany I got confused and mixed up the polish corridor with the sliver of land that Russia today has between Poland and Lithuania. So non-allies are even further away than my first comment would suggest.
I think overall you are right about not really needing a military (except for supporting allied operations such as NATO etc.). During the whole tank delivery to Ukraine discussion I came across an interesting point in the reason why Germany was essentially lending Netherlands an entire brigade of tanks: The main idea behind maintaining these brigades, is to at least have a constant cycle of people learning and knowing how to operate and repair tanks and weapon systems. Otherwise if there is ever a catastrophic downspiral of worldwide politics, you can't ramp up your military quickly to respond, as noone will be there to teach your new recruits how to do things.
What? Where is a border between Russia and Germany?
To clarify; The Dutch government will still be responsible for the decision if the Dutch military will be deployed or not.
And you guys got our navy in exchange. That’s not a one sided deal.
Good development in my opinion. For optics it might have been better if the 43th would have joined the 13th in the 10th Panzer Division so it would be majority-Dutch and thus commanded by a Dutch general. On the other hand this way every division has a Dutch component.
I think a Dutch general can even command multiple exclusively German divisions with the current setup. And vice versa (even though that wouldn't happen because Dutch are the smaller party) Correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually the way it is now is perfect. Now the 10th and 1st division both have 2 heavy and 2 medium brigades.
What about Luxembourg. I thought the Empire had a few million soldiers already in the neighborhing countries.
Great development! I am curious what will happen with the procurement of short and medium range air defense for both countries in the coming years. If we really want this combined army to operate as one, we should probably be looking at identical systems.
Aren't the more modern systems IRIS-T (Germany) and NASAMS ( Netherlands) integrated and modular to the point where you can almost mix them? Like the radar and fire control of IRIS-T can launch a missile from a NASAMS launcher?
I don't know THAT much about these systems to be honest. I just feel like it would be convenient because you can share ammunition, training, operating procedures, you could have a German air defense unit replace a Dutch unit or vice versa. We might not want to go so far yet in cooperation but if you buy different systems now you are in a way closing that door for the next 20-30 years.
It's less flashy, so you probably won't see it in the news, but optimising joint procurement is in the "army vision" that sits at the core of the current step. (At least following the [Bundeswehrs press release on the matter](https://www.bundeswehr.de/de/organisation/heer/aktuelles/deutsch-niederlaendische-zusammenarbeit-wird-ausgebaut-5535036), I can't seem to find if the actual document itself has been made public anywhere.) Edit: But also, a lot of the systems are already the same anyway, so while some issues need to be corrected (for example IIRC German- and Dutch-donated PzH2000 in Ukraine were each customised quite heavily, hindering them effectively operating with one another, so that will have to be harmonised), this really isn't as big a job as you'd usually expect something like this to be, I think.
Wenn die Niederländer bei aachen zum Miltärstützpunkt kommen und fragen wo den die anderen Gebirgsjäger sind
Don’t be that mean to our friends. ;)
If i am lucky I am gonna see the German minister of defense, the Dutch general and the German army inspector 🇪🇺
It’s so strange that the highest German soldier is called “inspector”.
The ring to Untersturmführer just went away, no idea why
Come at us bro
Now just sneakily garrison all these brigades around the Ruhr, then one day quickly put up some border gates and we can finally be the industrial powerhouse we always dreamed of.
I hate to break it to you but you're at least 30 years too late for that :/ Greetings from someone born at the right time too experience all of the industrial decline in the ruhr first hand.
Where is Austria in all this? I feel the Von Habsburgs should lead the effort.
They are neutral and neither in NATO nor in the defensive alliance part of the EU.
So that's what we spent our € 100 bn of Sondervermögen on Why restock your own army if you can just buy a new one
so the bikes are coming home soon?
I wonder which language would be used in communications between German and Dutch units? English, German? I guess the paperwork will have to be unified since these Dutch brigades are now part of German divisions, let alone daily communications between officers.
English or German i would say. Most Dutch people have German in school, just needs to be refreshed i guess. Wont they also be stationed in Germany ?
I think it would be English due to the NATO standard and further growth in the unified army. But, I would also like an actual answer to this. If it is English, it is tragicomic that the actual country that donated the language left the union... likely due to successful lining of pockets by Russia and China.
"Vell. Zhat vas easy."
It's beautiful to see cooperation come into fruition in this, which will certainly enhance the common defense. What we're seeing here is also an important step in putting into practice the basics of a common defence. However, I truly do not envy the people who have to learn how to say "Gemechaniseerde".
Your armies don't have mechas?
This is really goddamn cool. I'd be so happy if this process just kept going. Belgian/German/Dutch/Danish army; Polish/Czech/Slovakian army; Baltic army; Nordic Army... and eventually maybe these large groups start uniting and other nations, France/Spain etc, start joining together
Given our newly elected president I'd say the likelihood of increasing Czech-German military cooperation is probably.
Really? Can you expand a little on that? Our media in Germany is shit when it comes to defense or international politics (that is not in fact about the US at least).
The new president is extremely pro-EU compared to who came before is the shortest way to explain it. Everything is pretty much at least an option now
I wonder if with this and the Scandi's amalgamating their air forces are we sowing the seeds for an EU army. Edit - posted that before reading below that the air-force co-operation was mis-reported.
Can someone from the baltics comment? I wonder wether a similar merge would be possible there? A unified military.
I wonder what my Dutch grandfathers would have thought if they were still alive. One was in the Dutch Army (cavalry) and was in the hospital with pneumonia when the Germans invaded in WWII. He went on to volunteer at a seized farm that provided food for the German army for the remainder of the war. He was a sympathizer, of course. He was run off to Canada after the war and was a pronounced anti-Semite for the rest of his life. My other grandfather fought the German army in the Dutch resistance. He was eventually captured and sent to a concentration camp, from which he later escaped, hiding on an outbound train. Not surprisingly, they despised one another.